Sources: The Mets have agreed to terms w D.J. Carrasco on 2-year deal & Ronny Paulino on 1 year, $1.3 million deal. Both pending physicals.
Andy Martino
SurfingTheMets
Dec 07
Twitter Tweet: Carrasco & Paulino Are Mets
Leave a Reply
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212 comments
rustyjr
12/7/2010-7:39pm at 7:39 pm (UTC -4)
Beat me to it jerz lol
I gotta admit they are decent signings – except I think Paulino is suspended to start the season
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-7:48pm at 7:48 pm (UTC -4)
8 games i hear rusty
rustyjr
12/7/2010-7:51pm at 7:51 pm (UTC -4)
Good point – still will need a emergency catcher though – btw I’ll download it tomorrow night
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
Why is it rusty that downloading such a small app is so apparently difficult for u to find time to do if i can ask?
rustyjr
12/7/2010-8:08pm at 8:08 pm (UTC -4)
I am up so early – had to rus home to write the infamy post which noone commented on !! Lol had to watch hot stove & then my wife wants quality time – then I’m in bed by 9:15
Ceetar
12/7/2010-8:19pm at 8:19 pm (UTC -4)
And don’t even get him started on URL shorteners so rusty can tweet the direct link to his post!
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-8:22pm at 8:22 pm (UTC -4)
i dont know if its even worse rusty downloading teamviewr now?
I know we will need at least an hour to get him straight or at least try to and he cant spare 5 minutes.
Maybe RDM will just hav 2 liv with pixelated feature images.
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-8:22pm at 8:22 pm (UTC -4)
should of said worth not worse
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-8:20pm at 8:20 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly, I don’t know if i could handle such tight schedule?
I
rustyjr
12/7/2010-8:50pm at 8:50 pm (UTC -4)
I did it – Happy now?!? lol going to bed
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-8:57pm at 8:57 pm (UTC -4)
LoL, actually I am if only because I can say we made a smidgen of progress. Now though how in the world will we find an hour to sit down and work together?
I cant bend time and space?
rustyjr
12/7/2010-8:59pm at 8:59 pm (UTC -4)
thats the hard part lol after 9 tomorrow ?
rustyjr
12/7/2010-9:00pm at 9:00 pm (UTC -4)
now comment on my column damn you lol
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-9:00pm at 9:00 pm (UTC -4)
9:00pm?
dont get me all excited now and then let me down?
i think i can do 9:00pm or am either one. email me what u decide
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-8:43pm at 8:43 pm (UTC -4)
I read it, Rusty! I’ll drop a comment.
BTW, sleeping is underrated – didn’t ya know? – I kid, I kid.
One thing about getting older, I find….I can function perfectly well on 6 hours sleep anymore……
rustyjr
12/7/2010-8:51pm at 8:51 pm (UTC -4)
lol I got a mri at 630 am tomorrow then work then pt at 5 pm then i gotta write the infamy lol
kistics
12/7/2010-9:02pm at 9:02 pm (UTC -4)
Quality time with wifey… *wink wink*… me likey… :p
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-8:33pm at 8:33 pm (UTC -4)
If Rusty ever had time.
-Link
Prismo
12/7/2010-8:35pm at 8:35 pm (UTC -4)
Carrasco is 2yr/$2.5M
Excellent signing. Really cheap deal, but for a guy who’s consistently been a solid middle reliever.
kingman 26
12/7/2010-8:37pm at 8:37 pm (UTC -4)
I totally agree….two real good signings.
Good prices, and exactly the spots we needed solid help next yera without breaking the bank.
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-8:41pm at 8:41 pm (UTC -4)
Hey! It’s good 2 see some happy faces for a change.
kingman 26
12/7/2010-9:08pm at 9:08 pm (UTC -4)
Even when I argue, I am happy inside.
Life is good.
Eres un buen hombre.
Ceetar
12/7/2010-8:50pm at 8:50 pm (UTC -4)
And also hints that the Mets aren’t quite as cash-strapped as is hinted. or only willing to do one year deals.
They’re even buying 100 school kids lunch at the Acela Club next Tuesday and giving them presents from Mets-Santa!
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-8:53pm at 8:53 pm (UTC -4)
i dont know where the budget line is but the Mets are close.
They not slashin payroll but def towing the line like i have never seen
stickguy
12/7/2010-9:00pm at 9:00 pm (UTC -4)
for a sec I thought you said lowering, but I realized it was toeing (unless they hooked up payroll to a trailer hitch!).
even going cheap, when you factor in arb raises, contract raises, etc. payroll has gotta come in at least where it was last year, since not many guys left.
Mr North Jersey
12/7/2010-9:06pm at 9:06 pm (UTC -4)
hahaha u hav to forgive my Ged education lol
stickguy
12/7/2010-9:16pm at 9:16 pm (UTC -4)
just ask Knog, they call me Mr. spelling.
not so bad now though since I inherited by daughters laptop (she got a new one for her birthday) and Opera does auto spell checking.
kingman 26
12/7/2010-10:10pm at 10:10 pm (UTC -4)
Holy crap, this is with your NEW laptop?!?!
stickguy
12/7/2010-10:29pm at 10:29 pm (UTC -4)
a 3ish YO hand me down. Terrible timing getting a very early low budget vista machine, with only 1 gig or RAM.
pretty much a dog. My daughter hated it, and it gave enough problems for school that we got her a new one.
But, it serves it’s purpose for putting around on the internet.
considering my desktop is 8 YO this is still an improvement.
stickguy
12/7/2010-8:55pm at 8:55 pm (UTC -4)
bah-humbug. Probably left over give away day stuff from 2009.
I keed, I keed.
kingman 26
12/7/2010-9:06pm at 9:06 pm (UTC -4)
Mmmmm…the Acela Club has GOOD food…
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-8:48pm at 8:48 pm (UTC -4)
I like both these signings. With what was out there, and what we supposedly have to work with, not bad.
And ditto….can Cliff Lee just sign with someone, anyone already?
kistics
12/7/2010-9:05pm at 9:05 pm (UTC -4)
Yes please sign with the Nats for 7 years $180M. That would come close to the joy of Rangers vs Giants world series.
Bryan
12/7/2010-8:48pm at 8:48 pm (UTC -4)
As far as under the radar moves go, I really like these two. Paulino isn’t the best out there defensively but he’s young, which I like and he hits lefties well. Not that it should be a straight platoon with Josh, but he should be able to hit when he’s in there. I honestly don’t know much about Carrasco cause I haven’t seen much of him. But looking at his stats, he’s been pretty good the past three years. The ERA is under 4 in those years, the WHIP is definitely in a good place, the strikeouts could be better, but the homer runs are pretty low. So based on his stats the last three years, I think he’ll be an asset to the bullpen.
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-9:04pm at 9:04 pm (UTC -4)
When you say past three years – are you including 2010?
I clicked some link to look at his stats (and I looked at so much today that I can’t remember what site I was on for Carrasco) but he looked real good 2007-2009, but not so much in 2010. I think the term used for him in ’10 was ‘unlucky’.
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-9:40pm at 9:40 pm (UTC -4)
I take this back…..the stats I was looking at that weren’t all that good last year was on Qualls, not Carrrasco. My bad.
stickguy
12/7/2010-8:51pm at 8:51 pm (UTC -4)
I like them both. decent players, suited for the role we need them to be in, and not too expensive (leaving more money to fill other holes).
maybe this bought Sandy another 2-3 days of grace from the recall movement people.
I will be happier though when they add a legit SP. Really not much else left that they have to get, other than the last couple pen guys. Even the pen has at least 5 if not 6 now.
the rest probably comes out of the ST scrum.
oleosmirf
12/7/2010-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
K-Rod, Carrasco, Parnell, Acosta, is a solid start for the bullpen. If Igarashi can be anything productive that would be a nice addition too.
stickguy
12/7/2010-10:31pm at 10:31 pm (UTC -4)
yup. like I said below,. Find that lefty specialist someplace, and round it out with one more live power arm (maybe a rule 5 guy)
TRS86
12/8/2010-7:44am at 7:44 am (UTC -4)
I don’t want no loogy. LOL.
Give me a guy like Crain who pitches well to both sides of the plate.
rustyjr
12/7/2010-8:53pm at 8:53 pm (UTC -4)
still no word on Grave huh ?
kingman 26
12/7/2010-9:04pm at 9:04 pm (UTC -4)
No sir. I tried Googling him and his Twitter deal and found nothing; no response to my email for the first time ever, and again, he does get all the emails we send to each other too.
rustyjr
12/7/2010-9:08pm at 9:08 pm (UTC -4)
I hope he’s ok
kingman 26
12/7/2010-9:09pm at 9:09 pm (UTC -4)
Me too buddy.
Hope the MRI goes well and is nothing serious…..
rustyjr
12/7/2010-9:10pm at 9:10 pm (UTC -4)
from the car accident
stickguy
12/7/2010-9:13pm at 9:13 pm (UTC -4)
MRIs are only an issue if you get bothered by the tube. CTs are fun too. Better than PET scans which take too damn long and you gotta drink a bunch of crap.
get lots of pretty colored pictures though out of that one.
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-9:22pm at 9:22 pm (UTC -4)
For me, MRIs are good for a 20 minute nap as I’m the type that can fall asleep with bombs going off.
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-9:17pm at 9:17 pm (UTC -4)
Ditto – on both accounts from me.
oleosmirf
12/7/2010-9:19pm at 9:19 pm (UTC -4)
while i was 99.9% certain noone would get a multi-year deal 1.25 mil a season doesn’t prohibit then from signing anyone in 2012 so I have no problem with it.
regardless I think these are two no brainer signings that is really impossible to complain about.
kistics
12/7/2010-9:22pm at 9:22 pm (UTC -4)
agreed. i wonder if omar would’ve done the same thing….
kingman 26
12/7/2010-9:31pm at 9:31 pm (UTC -4)
Nope.
Omar would have brought back Santos and Nieve, given Feliciano and Takahashi 3/15 each, and gone all in on Lee.
kistics
12/7/2010-9:35pm at 9:35 pm (UTC -4)
no I think Omar would’ve offered Paulino and Carrasco minor league deals
stickguy
12/7/2010-9:52pm at 9:52 pm (UTC -4)
agreed except for the Lee part, since I doubt the wilpons would have OK’d jumping payroll to 165!
oh, don’t forget that the 2 RP contracts would have been for 1.5 this year, and backloaded with 10 mill each in 2013!
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-9:23pm at 9:23 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed – although I’m surprised at the number of Met fans complaining about it. I can only assume some were really holding out delusions of a Cliff Lee type signing this off seasons.
oleosmirf
12/7/2010-9:38pm at 9:38 pm (UTC -4)
yea I dont get it either. these were two excellent moves no matter how you look at it. Now one or both might wind up sucking but that doesn’t take away from the fact that its a great move at the time.
metsfan4decades
12/7/2010-9:33pm at 9:33 pm (UTC -4)
LOL….gotta love Ted Berg:
‘Heard this: a mystery team has made a bid for an unspecified player. Terms not disclosed.’
Ceetar
12/7/2010-9:45pm at 9:45 pm (UTC -4)
That rumor was retweeted a couple of times. It must be true.
stickguy
12/7/2010-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
you can save a lot of tweet space by always replacing “mystery team” with “Boras”. Frees up 7 characters right there!
kingman 26
12/7/2010-9:58pm at 9:58 pm (UTC -4)
I would much rather hear about BoraT.
wannybackstra
12/7/2010-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
Carrasco has been pretty consistently okay since his rebirth in Chicago. For the money he’ll fill a nice role eating up innings in the middle of the pen. A good value signing.
Two good value signings (i’ve spoken enough on my happiness with Paulino).
kingman 26
12/7/2010-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
Totally agree.
Very nice moves with excellent value at the very least.
stickguy
12/7/2010-10:02pm at 10:02 pm (UTC -4)
remember, the biggest knock on Omar was always ignoring the margins of the team. Sandy already inherited the expensive parts, and what he does with these lower level signings, minor trades, and final assembly will make a big difference as to whether they come in around 80 wins again, or get into the mid-upper 80s.
Ceetar
12/7/2010-10:08pm at 10:08 pm (UTC -4)
nah, the biggest knock on Omar was that he treated every marginal pickup as a comeback player of the year instead of a one-hit wonder. If he’d shed Easley, Tatis, Anderson, Valentin, Franco, etc one year earlier for similar guys..
even Endy was probably relied on too much.
kingman 26
12/7/2010-10:09pm at 10:09 pm (UTC -4)
Nah. After 2006′s excellent depth, it was all downhill.
This year we fielded teams with Mike Jacobs, Gary Matthews Jr, Chris Carter, and Mike Hessman starting!!
That’s grounds for dismissal right there.
Letting Bradford and Oliver go was the beginning of the end.
Ceetar
12/7/2010-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
Bradford. moneyball guy.
well yes, this year was particularly icky. Although Jacobs was really a oops, Murphy got injured day before the season. and you forgot Catalanotto. and GMJ was mainly Manuel who didn’t trust Pagan but should’ve.
kingman 26
12/7/2010-10:08pm at 10:08 pm (UTC -4)
Absolutely, totally, and completely right on the money.
oleosmirf
12/7/2010-10:02pm at 10:02 pm (UTC -4)
btw for the Rule V draft here are two guys the Mets should look at
Aneury Rodriguez a SP for the Rays and Kyle Waldrop a RP for the Twins. both put up very good numbers in AAA
stickguy
12/7/2010-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
entirely possible that they fill another spot in the pen this way. Getting a rotation spot would be a real lucky break (well, unless he totally blows chunks). If it is a lefty, all the better, but getting a live right arm would be nice.
I’m thinking the pen is getting kinda full anyway.
K rod, Parnell, Carrasco, Misch, Iggy are very likely.
pluck a new guy out of rule 5.
A lefty arm from someplace.
Acosta is still around too.
oleosmirf
12/7/2010-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
Acosta is virtually a lock for the bullpen, he had a very good year last season. Misch and Igarashi are not gaurantees at all though, in fact i would be very surprised to see Misch make the team.
stickguy
12/7/2010-10:49pm at 10:49 pm (UTC -4)
Probably right about Acosta. But coming into play will be options and handedness. I also see misch as the long/swing guy, and emergency starter. plus he is lefty, even though he doesn’t have much in the way of splits.
who knows. will come down to ST performance, and who else they add to the mix.
oleosmirf
12/7/2010-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
i’m sure he will be in the mix but Misch is neither a favorite nor a guarantee for anything whereas the other 4 (K-Rod, Parnell, Carrasco and Acosta) will be in the pen if they are healthy no matter what.
njstuckintx
12/7/2010-11:37pm at 11:37 pm (UTC -4)
I think you see the AAA guy they re-signed have a spot over Misch, honestly.
oleosmirf
12/7/2010-11:54pm at 11:54 pm (UTC -4)
I just see there being a wide open competition for the bullpen with only K-Rod, Carrasco, Parnell and Acosta being guaranteed jobs due to their performances in 2010 as well as their career numbers.
I have no problem with using Misch in the bullpen but I refuse to give someone a gauranteed spot off such a small sample size.
stickguy
12/7/2010-11:55pm at 11:55 pm (UTC -4)
oh for sure, make them earn there spots if they aren’t locked into one like KO rod.
stickguy
12/7/2010-11:54pm at 11:54 pm (UTC -4)
could both be there in different roles. O’conner i can’t see being anything more than a LOOGY (replacing Pedro). Misch would be competing for the long/swing/spot emergency starter role.
hazmet
12/7/2010-10:38pm at 10:38 pm (UTC -4)
Nice signings but suprised no issues with Paulino’s PED past and remaining suspension by any commentors. Guess no biggie for a back up guy. imo – a daring signing for the image conscious Mets coming off of all the outside the lines issues recently.
stickguy
12/7/2010-10:52pm at 10:52 pm (UTC -4)
I think it is a matter of degree. from the reports (including what the Marlins stated) it was a low dose of something in a supplement. So, it could have been cheating, or just dumb/bad luck.
but no indications he was on anything close to the clemens or Bonds “body building” plan!
kingman 26
12/7/2010-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
Folks–
Grave is OK, and just has too many things going on in life to continue to post here; he may comment in the future.
He is OK though.
njstuckintx
12/7/2010-11:36pm at 11:36 pm (UTC -4)
Ha-ley-flippin-lou-jah. I was a little worried. And now, I’m not.
stickguy
12/7/2010-11:57pm at 11:57 pm (UTC -4)
that’s good to know.
he will be back. they always fall off the wagon and get sucked back in. May take until the season starts, but it will happen!
gonna miss the game wrap ups though.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
yeah, having the same Ollie/Beltran/Reyes argument for days can get tedious and time-sucky.
but otherwise how would I get invited to the Mets christmas party?
kistics
12/8/2010-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
Hooray!
metsfan4decades
12/8/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Whew! Thanks for letting us know, Kingman. I was really starting to worry about for a bit.
I hear him on life getting in the way sometimes……
stickguy
12/8/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
the answer to that is to not have a life. Much easier that way.
kistics
12/8/2010-8:42am at 8:42 am (UTC -4)
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/12275719593795585
This is a good news for us.
Heyman saying that Young wants $2M guaranteed and Francis wants $4-5M guaranteed.
Please don’t forget to get the contract notarized by an attorney Mr. Young!
TRS86
12/8/2010-8:45am at 8:45 am (UTC -4)
Then Young it is. Sandy has mostly indicated we are only getting one of that type and then trying to find a guy to eat innings/compete with Gee.
kistics
12/8/2010-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
I’m assuming it’s the incentive part of the deal that might be in question. Otherwise, I don’t see any reason why he hasn’t signed already.
Or health reasons….
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Young at 2 mil guaranteed plus incentives is really good
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Would the Met’s be able to get Dice-K for Beltran straight up?
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Not sure. From a Mets perspective I would say yes. From a Redsox perspective I am not sure.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
Read the comments on the Beltran for Dice-K post on MLBTR. My goodness, I think the posters at FWICG.com are more rational.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
heh. I don’t read that site much, but there is a lot of stupidity when you get to ‘national’/'international’ sites. like youtube.
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
I read that site more than any other site. Incredible site this time of year. Just have to take the comment section with a grain of salt.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
rumors just bore me. If it wasn’t for the alternative being work, I’d probably comment/Mets a lot less in the offseason.
kistics
12/8/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Would you do Dice-K for Beltran straight up?
They both are owed about the similar $$ and frees up some money for this offseason to sign more/better FAs such as Webb, Hudson (okay maybe not..), etc…
Personally I wouldn’t do the deal, but could be a possibility.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
I think I would. That would free up some cash for this year, open a spot for Stick’s Precious (Duda) or another option in RF and then use some of that extra cash to sign Fred Lewis or someone on par there. You won’t get the production that Beltran would have provided, but then again, Beltran can’t pitch.
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
What production will Beltran provide? Are we confident on that production or how long he will provide that production>?
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
He did hit well towards the end of last season. More rest of the surgery, time to heal the bone bruise, I think it’s safe to say his offensive numbers would be much better than an average player.
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
For how long? Again, I like Beltran and THINK he will produce but man it’s a roll of the dice.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. That’s why I would not complain about missing his production if they were able to trade him prior to the season.
kistics
12/8/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
So you would do Beltran for Dice-K straight up?
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Yes.
metsfan4decades
12/8/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
IMO, I wouldn’t do that deal.
I’m not understanding how, exactly, this frees up any money.
If we trade Beltran and pay like 10MIL of his salary…get DiceK back who is owed something like 10 MIL each this year and next, then what does that buy us?
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
I think the offer would be straight up 4D. So in other words spreading Beltran’s 20 over 2 years of Dice K. If we have to eat 10M it’s not getting done.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Beltran owed 18+ mil for this year. Dice-K owe about the same over 2 years. so, you’re out of pocket expense for this year would be 9 and then 9 for the following. So, in an accounting sense, you’ve freed up 9 million this year. And the extra 9 your have to pay next year is easier to swallow as Ollie, Castillo, Beltran (obv.) would be gone.
metsfan4decades
12/8/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
O.K., understand the mindset now.
It’s taking a chance – on both ends:
– if Beltran returns relatively healthy, we could either be using him to stay in contention or possibly getting something better back in mid season trade
- If Dice K still struggles, we’re stuck with him next year and his 9MIL salary.
I still wouldn’t do this deal right now, but that’s just my opinion.
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
I would do it yesterday. I know there is a potential to get a larger return from Beltran mid-season but right now to me it would really signify a new era AND solve any potential CF debate.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
What would your RF solution be?
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Look to platoon guys like Duda, Evans, Lewis from FA… Try and get league average production from the spot instead of the player.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I could endorse that. Would preferentially like to go with a non-platoon in RF, but having something similar to the 2B open competition, see who wins it in ST wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
Prismo
12/8/2010-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Is F-Mart officially dead? He’s been “pro” for 5 years now. If he’s not ready yet, when will he be?
(a bit of baiting here – I don’t think he’ll ever start for the Mets)
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Last I heard he blinked too hard the other day. Pulled an Eyelash muscle. on the 15 day DL.
stickguy
12/8/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
well, the timeline is different when you start your pro career at 16!
that would be one way to clean up the IFA abuses. Assuming, of course, you can verify the ages. Make them wait until they are draft eligible age (what is that, 18 or when you graduate HS?) before they can be signed.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
He’s still young and I think the fact that the old regime pushed him way to fast to have something to show for it…
stickguy
12/8/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Du-Da! Du-Da! Du-Da!
(say that in your best Bluto voice).
and I would bet my house that a Duda/Evans platoon would give more production than Frenchy as a starter, Omar.
and if they are worried about experience in RF< do what the Cards are doing, and shift Bay over to RF.
Hard to beleive that the DE boys will cover less ground than Berkman.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
To me you don’t shift Bay. Then you have 3 guys uncomfortable. Either Evans and Duda can play RF or they can’t. We surely don’t want to give Bay any more to think about.
Prismo
12/8/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Kingman…the other day you were complaining about Sandy signing a AAA player who hit below .200 last season.
But the Cubs just signed “.196″ Carlos Pena to a 10 MILLION DOLLAR contract.
TRS86
12/8/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
LOL, please do not use anything the Cubs do as rational for rational thought.
metsfan4decades
12/8/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
LOL…
And good-god, are the Cubs ever gonna learn? I would have thought their mindset should be running about the same as the Mets right now…..
kistics
12/8/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
That’s a crazy deal. $10M for Pena? Gees… I would rather bring back D Lee for that kind of money.
kingman 26
12/8/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Yes Prismo, this site continues to boast the very best analogies on the internet.
Carlos Pena hit 28 HR and had 87 BB.
He has averaged 36 HR and 94 BB the last four years. And I am pretty sure he did that in the majors.
stickguy
12/8/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
the dice K for Beltran deal makes sense. Dice makes a little more money, but is signed for 2 years (good or bad, depending on your POV I guess).
If the Mets get a prospect back too it makes sense. Otherwise, what is the point? Especially for the 98% (conservatively) of the fans that have already written off 2011. That means you think Dice can give you more value in 2012 than Beltran will this year (either by playing, and/or a future trade).
I just don’t see the Mets as desperate to get rid of him. certainly if it doesn’t free up money (this year, about 3.5 mill), and if no prospects come back it doesn’t help with the future.
I do kinda like Dice though. ANd thye could use another solid pitcher, which he could be if the NL treats him well.
but would the mets be better off paying 8 mill this year to get some solid prospects back instead? Still save the same money, you just end up signing Young instead.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I’d hope they trade for Dice-K AND sign Young.
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
your second paragraph is why Im on the side against making this trade and while I understand it could backfire I would much rather take the risk and see what Beltran does in the first few months and flip him for prospects instead of someone like Dice-K whom despite being under contract for 2012, his bigger value for us is in 2011
kistics
12/8/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you. Plus Dice K also has issues with staying healthy and does not have good numbers (granted it’s the AL East).
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Having a rotation of Pelfrey, Niese, Dickey, DiceK, Young, Gee and the potential return of Johan could place the Mets back into competition. As far as helping the Mets in 2012? Surely DiceK helps the Mets more in 2012 than Beltran.
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
but that also means the Mets have a 100% full rotation in 2012 which given the amount of money they have coming off the books doesnt really make sense for them to do that.
the only way I think you make this move is if you believe Dice-K is the best option for the rotation in 2012…
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Assuming the Mets could be players for Darvish, wouldn’t you do that regardless of your “set” SP line up and live with Dice-K or whomever pitching out of the pen? You can never have enough bullets, in my mind.
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
and then who do you play in RF. Is Dice-K and a complete unknown like Duda a better option than Chris Young and Beltran???
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Oh, I understand that there is a big unknown all around. Who I play in RF would be Fred Lewis or Nick Evans or The Dude-ah, or Fmart even. Whomever plays the best in ST. It’s a lot easier to find an OF player than it is to find a pitcher (who in this case, while having been injured, is still proven he can pitch at the ML level) than running with operation hope and pray at the Pitcher position and hoping the same for Beltran’s return to being Beltran-esque.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
I want to know who’s playing Santa this year.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Based on size, Duda. Based on beard, RA!
rustyjr
12/8/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
I was invited to it but it’s next Tuesday & I gotta work
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think I can either. Might be cool to schmooze with everyone, but work is hectic right now.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Wait, you used to work in Ramsey? I bought my car at Mazda
rustyjr
12/8/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Lol I sold for the Chrysler / jeep arm of the company – who did u buy from Joe disimone or Jerry Stern ?
stickguy
12/8/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Up on 17? Or is that Saddle River? I bought a Mazda there many years ago.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
up on 17. Saddle River is ‘down’ on 17. That’s where I go to the gym. My wife works a mile past that Mazda, so it makes sense for services and what not.
I think we bought from Willie, but that Joe guy sounds familiar.
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I’m in total agreement with your above comment about dealing
Bel-Tron for Dice-K AND signing Young, fellow Stiller fan!
If you can get a Pitcher with the profile of Dice-K for Carlos and
he’ll agree to the deal, you do it!
No matter what Beltran does this season he puts Mgmt in a pickle.
If he never really recovers from the knee and is a shadow of himself (like last yr) he’s not worth what he’s being paid. If he mostly returns to the old Carlos, he’ll be looking for a long-term deal which we simply can’t do. Further, no matter what he does
we won’t even contend or likely play .500ball w/o add’l Starting Pitching. We’re not gonna get an Ace from anyone/anywhere So…We need at least one if not two mid-rotation types and hope
for con’t growth/improvement from Pelf and Niese as well as health and production from Bay,Wright,Reyes etc.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Dang, I agree with Fongy
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Wait!!!…What???…….Do you have the Flu???
TRS86
12/8/2010-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Actually no, just a severe sinus infection and cold.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I still stand by needing 2 SPs. I want Gee to succeed, as well as Mejia, but I don’t want to have to rely on them succeeding ASAP. I want to allow the luxury of developing and if needed, jump up into the rotation. Not getting 2 SPs would be poor planning. And poor planning, as we know, is planned failure.
metsfan4decades
12/8/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
I absolutely agree we need 2 SPs. We have very little depth.
I’m just not sure DiceK is the answer. But if a deal like this does get done, so be it. I’ll keep my fingers crossed DiceK finds some of his stuff over here in the NL.
Prismo
12/8/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Stark says if Pettitte retires, the Yankees could potentially afford both Crawford and Lee.
Does no one see anything wrong with a team signing Jeter, Rivera, Crawford, and Lee all in the same offseason? I’ve said time and time again that I’m “okay” with it, as it’s within the rules of the league, but clearly the rules need to be changed.
metsfan4decades
12/8/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
My chuckle for the day is over on Hardball Talk: ‘Charlie Manuel: “I’ve always liked Francoeur”’
‘When asked if he thought he could help Francoeur — the big talking point among Philly fans this week being whether Manuel could “fix” him — Manuel said that he saw “mechanical flaws” in Francoeur’s game. I just checked my Cholly-to-English dictionary and it seems that “mechanical flaws” translates roughly to “a complete and utter inability to play the game and an utter hostility to instruction or suggestion designed to make oneself better.” But like I said: roughly.’
Oh, I’d like nothing more than to see the Phillies sign Frenchy for RF – or even a RF platoon.
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I sort of agree BUT it wouldn’t shock me to see Goober fix-up
Frenchy. He certainly did help make Werth a hundred million dollars.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Playing in a little league stadium certainly could help his numbers. Besides think about how many runners he could throw out from what in Citi would be deep 2B.
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
No doubt. I’ve been so wrapped up with Christmas shopping….
Get it??…Steeler football and recovering from a bad ankle
injury the past few weeks, I’ve only paid half-attention to baseball in general. That said, lastnight I was discussing the
Werth contract with someone AND it really is insane.
I kinda like Werth as a player and all BUT 7yrs/126million
dollars for a guy best suited to be a teams 4th,5th or 6th best
position player and only 2nd or 3rd best OFer?…In his 30s,
with a history of back-issues…For a guy 6’5″???…Who at best
is a borderline Allstar???…WOW!!!
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Anything solid yet on new coaches??? I’m hoping Andy Van Slyke gets
the HC job. Always liked him as a player.
Prismo
12/8/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
I think the final of 3 hitting coach candidates interviewed yesterday or today. So I guess we’ll find out soon.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I can get behind Slyke and Alou being added to the staff. I would like to see Mookie but you know Alou has a great reputation as a hard worker and intense competitor.
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
I read somewhere Alou willNOT be a member of the staff.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
OH, I thought I read on MB that he was likely. I must have missed it.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
I see the correction. Thanks.
stickguy
12/8/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
If they can get young, and his medicals check out, then spend the $2mil and sign him up. Even though Francis is probably a better itcher (but that is debatable, and both are health risks of course).
Actually, for $2mill, sign young, and keep shopping.
Damn though, Santana going down for an extended time (meaning likely lost for the year) absolutly buzz likks 2011. Much easier to think of them finally making the playoffs with a rotation of Johan, Dickey, Pelf, Neise and Young, with Gee in reserve.
the standard health/production caveats for the offense still apply of course.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Buzz likks?
Prismo
12/8/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I’m also not certain what Francis’ aptitude for itching says about him as a pitcher.
TRS86
12/8/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
I am ok with Johan coming back mid-season. It’s what will we see when he comes back that concerns me. You can get by early without an ace and having a healthy Johan come back in July could spark the team. However, what to expect from him?
stickguy
12/8/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
IMO, the only prudent thing is to expect nothing (as in he won’t be back, and certainly not as an effective pitcher), and plan accordingly. If you end up getting anything worthwhile out of him, consider it found money.
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t count on Johan being Johan at all next season.
He likely won’t be back until well after the Allstar and then it
will be a few starts before he is anywhere close to his old
self. We’re likely talkin’ late Aug/early Sept at which point
we might well be done.
metsfan4decades
12/8/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
I’d be thrilled if Johan came back mid season – even if he wasn’t up to form yet. I’m not holding my breath on that though.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more like September….
kistics
12/8/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I’m not sure if Dice-K is as good as we think.
Past 3 seasons, he has never pitched over 170 innings.
He has had one good season with ERA under 4 in 2008.
Past 2 seasons, his numbers look like this
37GS, 4.99ERA, 1.512WHIP, 9.2 H/9, 4.4 BB/9, 1.8 K/BB
Would you pay someone like this 2/$20M contract?
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
No BUT I’d flip his contract for the final yr of Beltran’s.
kistics
12/8/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I’m not sure if I can stand watching Dice K walk 2,000 batters in 5 innings. We’ve seen plenty of Ollie past 5 seasons.
stickguy
12/8/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Actually, looks about like John Maine.
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Really???
stickguy
12/8/2010-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
I should have been more clear. I meant the 2008-2009 (damaged goods) version, since those D.K #s were for 2 years.
Only 37 starts?
and to be fair to Mr. pouty face, over the 2 year period 08-09, he was better in every catagory than Dice was the last 2 years.
Prismo
12/8/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Well, the Mets paid Beltran $37M the past 2 seasons for him to play in 145 games total.
And they’d be paying him $18.5M for this season, to potentially sit on the DL for another half season (if the last 2 years are any indicator, paired with his natural aging).
If you pay that for Dice-K, you’re hoping a switch to the NL helps his stats a bit or that he reverts back to his 2008 self. You’re also banking on letting Beltran go helps the team rebuild its image.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think you can project injuries/health like that.
Prismo
12/8/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Would you like to make a bet that Beltran won’t hit the DL at some point this season? I would GLADLY make that bet with you. Or are you just all TALK?
fongy2
12/8/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
You gamble on the younger, less seriously injured player
WHO is a Pitcher.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Sure, what do you want to wager? You want to make it no DL, or 140+ games?
stickguy
12/8/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
for a veteran CF, 140 seems like a fair number. if he hits that, I would consider it FT.
you can both send your money to me, and I will hold it for safe keeping.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Also, I love my Droid. (well, it’s not a Droid, but an Android, but wuteva’s) I have the Fascinate. Super Amoled screen and what not.
kistics
12/8/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
huh?
Ceetar
12/8/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
multi-tasking. replying to his twitter tweet about a phone.
kistics
12/8/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I guess if you think in terms of what you get in return, what you get from Dice K might be more than what you get from Beltran.
But, I also think that IF there’s an option to get prospects back for Beltran while freeing up some money this season + next, I would prefer that option.
TRS86
12/8/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
On the open market? No. That’s not the point though. On the open market would you pay Beltran 18M for next year?
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
and for those of you looking to win this season does Dice-K and Duda give you a better chance than Beltran and Chris Young???
i mean a healthy Chris Young is pretty much equal to Dice-K to begin with and the Mets certainly arent getting both Young and Dice-K.
Ceetar
12/8/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think so, but that’s why you play the games. I don’t think Duda is ready for full-time major league contribution yet.
I don’t think Dice-K and his contract is the answer really. More interesting would be Garza I guess, in this hypothetical.
stickguy
12/8/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
well, if Young is as cheap as reported, hell yeah get both. Depth baby depth.
and if we assume that everyone stays healthy (a huge assumption with this group) and performs up to at least career norms, Beltran and Young give you more in 2011, but Dice K and Duda can carry over to 2012.
fongy2
12/8/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Duda??? My man I wouldn’t even think of him in the mix.
What makes anyone think he’s a serious prospect?
Never was before last yr. Didn’t show a whole lot once
he got to the majors and is still behind guys like FMart and Kirk
in the pecking order of OFers in the system.
stickguy
12/8/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
once he got over th einitial shock he showed enough.
He also always put up very good numbers in the minors. The ony thing he didn’t show was the power you would expect from someone his size, and that arrived last year (without lowering his other positive numbers like walk or K rate).
I also trust Keith that if he raves about someones swing, they know what they are doing.
Can’t guarantee he will be a star, but I happen to think he will be good.
and if nothing else, a Met fan should know that not every “can’t miss star prospect” actually becomes a star!
Ceetar
12/8/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
First rule of moneyball, “Don’t believe what you hear from guys just because they played the game”
Keith does tend to rave about everyone. Not saying Duda is a dud though. He definitely grew on me.
stickguy
12/8/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
didn’t he pick on Ike’s swing? and I know there are other guys that he has pointed out flaws with (DW maybe?)
He did have a fantastic year in the minors though. Especially the peripheral stuff. The HRs and production were certainly strong, but there were also no red flags like some guys have (too many Ks, no walks, etc.). For a guy hitting with plenty of power, a 84K 60BB line is a real good sign. as is a .398 OBP.
I also like his history of using the entire field, instead of being a dead pull hacker.
hey, we all gotta have our favorites, and the guy just seems to know how to play.
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
it doesnt work like that though. very very few teams have a set rotation going into ST and I cant see the Mets being one of them. If Dice-K comes then look for a bunch of guys on minor league deals competing with Gee for the #5 spot
stickguy
12/8/2010-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
depends on their prices. And what value you find.
say they do get Dice K, who is not a guarantee anyway coming off a couple years where he missed time. If they can still get young relatively cheap (as in, not much more than what you have to pay the ST invite crowd), it is a worthwhile investment.
worst case (which is actually a good outcome), they are all healthy and pitch well, and you keep Gee improving in the minors for depth, since it is pretty much a given that someone will be on the DL at any point in time!
if Young can do what he did in September, and is able to pitch without crazy restrictions, and Dice is healthy and gets a bounce from the NL, they won’t have a half bad rotation potentially. No worse looking than 2006!
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
You get Dice-K AND Young!
TRS86
12/8/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Young has no bearing on the situation as you could still get him. Actually you could spend 10M more this year.
stickguy
12/8/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
TIme for a post for todya boys. This one is getting too full to follow!
kingman 26
12/8/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
No way on Dice K for Beltran.
Nutty.
Take on a mediocre injured pitcher with a huge contract?
Hell no.
Move Beltran for young prospects once he shows he is healthy.
No way, no how, no chance Sandy considers that move.
stickguy
12/8/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
I was more interested in the proposal when it was supposed to be Dice + a couple of prospects, since Beltran is the better player (and cheaper) in the deal.
straight up though it just seems to be a head scratcher. Especially if they are only adding 1 guy, might as well make it francis or Young and keep beltran.
TRS86
12/8/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
You can add both. Gives you a quality starter this year and next year for money that you will have spent on Beltran either way.
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
you theoretically can add both but it wouldnt happen.
stickguy
12/8/2010-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
certainly can add both. and I can’t see why they wouldn’t ant to if it was budget friendly. just a straight DK for CB flip saves the Mets OOP about 3.5 mill in 2011. drop 2 on Young, and still are ahead of the game by 1.5.
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
it has nothing to do with money and all about to do with ST competition. The Mets arent going into the season with all 5 spots locked down.
TRS86
12/8/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t see that Young would have the 5th spot locked down.
oleosmirf
12/8/2010-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
the only way he wouldn’t get the job is if he just looked downright awful in ST although given how he pitched for San Diego at the end of the year, I dont see why he would struggle that badly…
TRS86
12/8/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think it would be wise to consider someone who has missed so much time a lock for anything. Of course if you have him locked in the 5th spot then you still have Gee to fall back on.
TRS86
12/8/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Something else to consider. IF DiceK comes to the NL and produces would you get more in return if you fipped him than you would Beltran? Of course he may not produce, but then again Beltran may not even make it to mid-season for you to be able to trade him.
I have no idea.
stickguy
12/8/2010-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
either way is a crap shoot.
I guess a lot of it goes back to Sandy’s plan, and the teams goals for the near term (2011/2012).
Do they just wnat to rid themselves of Beltran? I doubt it.
are they desperate enough for SP that they would sacrifice Beltran? Maybe
Are they more interested in just clearing salary? Getting warmer maybe!
Are they trying to convert him into some prospects if they trade him? Most likely IMO.
wannybackstra
12/8/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
If the choice was to roll the dice (pardon the pun) on Beltran or Matsuzaka, I’d just as soon keep Beltran. For one thing, Dice-K is no healthier than Beltran. For another thing, though the total money is about the same, the fact that Matsuzaka would be on next season’s payroll, while Beltran’s salary would have been free and clear, is major impediment to me. The Mets should be adopting the Lebron plan — free as much money for next season as possible — unless the player’s acquired come with more reasonable assurance than Dice-K.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
What’s the difference between paying 18 now vs splitting that over 2 seasons?
wannybackstra
12/8/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
The amount that counts toward next season’s total payroll.
This season it won’t matter anyway — they’re not going to use it. But next year when they do plan to use it, it’d be nice to have the space.
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
Always nice to have some spare change, but with roughly 60 mil coming off the books, they’d have the cash to spare. Either way, Here’s to hoping that cash is used to keep Reyes and bring in Darvish.
wannybackstra
12/8/2010-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
Is Darvish an adjective?
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
If an adjective is Asian Pitching Phenom, then yeah!
Either that or an adverb. Or would that be Darvishly?
wannybackstra
12/8/2010-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
He’s wonderful! He’s darvelous!
njstuckintx
12/8/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
The Post or the Daily News use Darvelous! as a head line at some point are as much a given as TRS saying the Nats suck, no matter who they sign or draft.
TRS86
12/8/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
True but IF DiceK pitches well then you have options of trading him next year or trading another pitcher.
wannybackstra
12/8/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Sean Green and Chris Carter out — Paulino and Carrasco are in? Where are the Los Mets complainers now?!? Sandy can do it but Omar couldn’t?