" He gets my vote !!!"
When you hear the name the New york Mets what is the first thing that comes to mind? Okay wisenheimers – other than futility and collapses so epic it makes the fall of Rome look like a lovers spat.
The correct answer is pitching ! During their winningest of seasons right down to their most dismal of year, good pitching has always been their trademark – their calling card if you will.
Through the years look at the names of some of the better pitchers that have toed the mound for the Mets. Tom Seaver, Dwight Gooden, Pat Zachary, Al Leiter, Pedro Martinez, David Cone,Johan Santana, Ron Darling are among the many who sought glory while wearing a Mets uniform.
But my question is who was the most overlooked pitcher in Mets history ? was it either Jerry Kooseman , Jim McAndrews or Jon Matlack- who always seemed to pitch in the shadow of the legendary Seaver ? Could it be Craig Swan, the often injured ace of the abysmal teams that wallowed in the National League East basemen from “78-’83 ? Perhaps it was Sid Fernandez, the wide in stature workhorse of the mid to late ’80′s teams. Or maybe Brett Saberhagen, the man whose season were so hot and cold he could have been diagnosed with a bipolar carreer. Bleach incident aside, he was possibly the best pitcher in that early ’90′s rotation – after Gooden.
In my opinion the distinction of most overlooked Mets pitcher goes to Rick Reed. Rick Reed was the poor man’s Greg Maddux. He barely had a fastball that could top 90 mph , but he could get you out with his guts and his guile. He was in the Mets rotation from ’97-’02, which included such names as Al Leiter and Mike Hampton and Bobby Jones. But Reed in my opinion was the Mets best big game pitcher. It always seemed like whenever there was a game the Mets must win his turn in the rotation was up.
In his five years as a Met, his record was 59-38 with a 3.66 e.r.a. His past season record for the Mets was 1-1.
So who in your opinion is the most overlooked Mets pitcher ever?
And with that said …. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets alumni celebrating birthdays today are :
Mets outfielder from ’62-’65, Joe Christopher is 75 (1935) .
Third string catcher for the Mets from ’68-’69, J. C. Martin is 74 (1936).
The only Met to ever become a doctor- relief pitcher, Ron Taylor is 73 (1937) .
Utility infielder from the ’93 team, Doug Saunders is 41(1969) .
New York Mets signed free agent first baseman, Kelvin Torve of the Minnesota Twins on December 13, 1989.He would be released by the Mets on the same day – two years later .
New York Mets signed free agent agent, Rodney McCray of the Chicago White Sox on December 13, 1991.Rodney’s claim to fame is that he was the outfielder that is shown running through a wall to catch a ball . It was current Mets third base coach, Chip Hale who hit that ball.
New York Mets traded fourth outfielder, Chuck Carr to the St. Louis Cardinals for minor league pitcher, Clyde Keller on December 13, 1991.
Mets drafted catcher, Kelly Stinnett from the Cleveland Indians on December 13, 1993.
Mets drafted back up catcher, Charlie Greene from the San Diego Padres on December 13, 1993.
New York Mets signed free agent outfielder, Ryan McGuire of the Montreal Expos on December 13, 1999. He would appear in only one game for the Mets.
Atlanta Braves signed utility infielder, Kurt Abbott of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 13, 2000.
New York Mets signed rubber armed free agent reliever, Dave Weathers of the Chicago Cubs on December 13, 2001.
New York Mets signed free agent outfielder,Roger Cedeño of the Detroit Tigers on December 13, 2001. This would be Rogers second go round with the Mets after he was traded to the Astros for Mike Hampton. Unfortunately it wasn’t a happy homecoming. Cedeno – who was known for his speed and power, had some how lost the ability to hit and steal bases. But he sure knew how to cash his paycheck.
The Mets drafted flame throwing pitcher, Henry Owens from the Pittsburgh Pirates on December 13, 2004. Unfortunately Omar would trade him away two years later along with bullpen mate, Matt Lindstrom to the Florida Marlins for pitchers, Jason Vargas and Adam Bostick. Neither of the two players are still with the Mets – Oh Omar !!
And don’t forget, there are just 109 days until the Mets open the 2011 season against the Florida Marlins in Miami and 116 days until the Mets 2011 home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn will be dressed as the Nutcracker for tomorrows Mets Holiday party at Citi Field !!
54 comments
TRS86
12/13/2010-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
Nice pick. I think I will go with David Cone. For some reason he is not mentioned among the greats. 81-51 with a 3.13 ERA. Incredible stretch from 88 through being traded in 92. His K/9 was above his H/9 every year.
TRS86
12/13/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Other names might be unpopular but I would have to say Al Leiter and Tom Glavine. Both had to pitch as the Mets ace when really they should not have been in that situation. 7th and 10th on the Mets all-time innings list, both with ERA’s under 4.00 and both durable innings guys.
rustyjr
12/13/2010-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t believe I omited Coney’s name – it’s rectified now
TRS86
12/13/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Thing is I think a lot of people skip over him.
stickguy
12/13/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
when I saw the title, my first thought was Matlack, then Reed.
Cone was good, but I never thought he was overlooked, since everyone knew he was good.
Swan also had some excellent years, including IIRC and ERA crown.
TRS86
12/13/2010-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
OK so how about a top 10? (I will defer to my life time)
Cone
Sid
Leiter
Franco
Glavine
Reed
Ojeda
Orosco
McDowell
Bobby Jones.
rustyjr
12/13/2010-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
good choices
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
thx.
saltygary
12/13/2010-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
I think Cone, Leiter and Franco hold way to much wight to be considered overlooked. Franco was a hometown hero, any local Met fan would have him at the top of their popular list. Leiter was the teams ace during a long period and that one game playoff puts him in a much more memorable position. Cone was the only thing worth watching during that period.
I think Reed is a great pick and El Sid is right right up there along with Ojeda. I bet most fans don’t even realize that Ojeda was close to a 20 game winner in 86.
Bobby Jones and Glavine will always make me vomit in my mouth.
metsfan4decades
12/13/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
Good list but Matlack absolutely has to be on it. I saw him pitch and he was overshadowed by both Seaver and Koosman on that staff. He was pretty solid though.
In fact, Matlack would have been my first choice with Reed, Sid and Franco up there. McDowell overlooked as well.
I don’t consider Cone, Leiter or Orosco overlooked b/c I considered them damn good at the time. Probably Bobby O as well ’cause he had a hell of an ’86 season.
Glavine….I just can’t go there….
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting:
Generated 12/13/2010.
rustyjr
12/13/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
apples to oranges my friend
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Oh I know, I can’t stand Oliver Perez and hope he never pitches for us again. Just found it strange how similar his stats were to Nolan’s when Ryan was here.
wannybackstra
12/13/2010-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
Nolan was also 24 by the time he left NY… Ollie is 29?
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, not really looking to make this into anything more than it is. Just throwing some stats out.
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
just trying different format.
saltygary
12/13/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
Shocked by the equal amount of K’s. Hits allowed is pretty glaring difference.
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
True but I would not have guessed that Nolan’s BB/9 was higher.
stickguy
12/13/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
at the time, he was just another kid with a big FB and not much of a clue. Hell, in some ways, he was Bobby Parnell.
and there have been a ton of guys like that over the years, and very few end up having the career that Nolan did. although in many ways, Ryan was a total statistical outlier (a real 1-off player).
metsfan4decades
12/13/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Who would have thought? Certainly not me.
Wanny makes a good point though – the 6 years difference in their age.
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but what are those 6 years in Ollie maturity level?
kingman 26
12/13/2010-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
I bet Randy Johnson and Sandy Koufax would fit into this scenario too as late bloomers.
I tried to use the Ollie/Koufax/RJ analogy a few years ago as a way to be optimistic about Ollie, as a late-developing lefty.
But, Ollie never threw anywhere near as hard as Ryan, Johnson, or Koufax.
And the three of them took the game seriously, and respected themselves, the game, their teammates, their employers, and the fans….
oleosmirf
12/13/2010-7:18pm at 7:18 pm (UTC -4)
i never saw any of the other guys pitch (other than Randy) but the big difference is Ollie went from throwing 93-95 to 86-88 and never had any arm injuries.
if Ollie were still throwing hard and it was just control issues, I would understand but he’s just a mess. I think you have to let him come to ST due to the lack of depth but im still afraid one or two good outings will tantalize them into keeping him.
wannybackstra
12/13/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Excellent topic, Rusty. And you really hit a lot of the names. I immediately thought of Koosman and Matlack. But when you termed Sid Fernandez as a workhorse (a horse he was indeed but perhaps of a different kind) I thought perhaps our favorite TV analyst could be even more overlooked.
Ron Darling walked a lot of batters but he was the rock of the 80s Mets rotation while Doc was in rehab, Sid was injured or tiring out, etc. From 1984-1989 he started no less than 32 games and pitched no fewer 205 innings. From 1983 – 1990 (I excluded his partial season in 1991 because BR.com would not let me compute it separately) as Met he had a 94-64 record. That’s a .595 winning percentage. Over 1500 IP with a 1.293 WHIP.
From 1984 – 1989 when he was on his run of 6 straight 32+ starts per season, his average season was 14-9, 3.40, 226 IP, 8 H/9, 161 K (6.4/9), 1.84 K/BB.
Man, the Mets sure could use a guy like this again. A true workhorse.
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Hey maybe it will be Mike Pelfrey. 32, 31, 33 starts with 200 innings 2/3 years. I know that is not the same but neither is pitching. Not many young starters especially are allowed to get the same pitch counts and innings.
I guess the closest thing we have had since then would be a Leiter or Glavine.
stickguy
12/13/2010-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
you almost have to knock IPs down 10-20% from that era to become equivilent.
and like Ronnie, Pelf does not K a ton of guys, and hisK/BB rate is not fantastic. Yet, he pitches a lot and is normally effective, sometimes very effective.
And in response to the “you gotta have an ace no matter what the cost” crowd, I still say rotation of 5 Pelfs or Ronnies will put you in the playoffs pretty much every year if you have anything passing for a decent offense.
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
True, it’s what happens in the playoffs where I think you need the ace.
stickguy
12/13/2010-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
maybe. Or, in a short series, you need guys to keep you in every game.
obviously the ideal situation is an ace, then 4 Ronnies say. But if you have the ace then 1 ronnie and a bunch of crap, you are totally screwed if the Ace lets you down (see the Rangers thisyear, and I think the Yankees too?)
wannybackstra
12/13/2010-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
Ronnie struck out 1.5 more 9 than Mike has so far.
And there’s really no comparison until Mike demonstrates something resembling the consistency that Ronnie had in his six year period. He’s much more hittable than Ronnie was and so far his two good seasons are separated by an awful one.
saltygary
12/13/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
Rick Reed is a SCAB!!!
stickguy
12/13/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
that is probably why some people picked him.
picked him. Get it?
wannybackstra
12/13/2010-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
Nelson Figueroa votes for Nelson Figueroa.
metsfan4decades
12/13/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
hahahaha !
Admit it TRS…you really wanted to put Figgy on the top of your list.
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
Wait? He actually pitched in a game for the Mets?
TRS86
12/13/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
And called out himself in doing so.
oleosmirf
12/13/2010-7:22pm at 7:22 pm (UTC -4)
hey he had a pretty good year last year
Mr North Jersey
12/13/2010-3:53pm at 3:53 pm (UTC -4)
Brace yourselves!!! Here comes the Bump!
Mr North Jersey
12/13/2010-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
Baron has link pointing to facebook and some are having trouble with it. Hope he points it straight to post instead.
saltygary
12/13/2010-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
What do you think is stronger the Colbert Bump or the Cerrone Bump?
Mr North Jersey
12/13/2010-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
Colbert Bump?
saltygary
12/13/2010-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
Really ?!? “The Colbert Report” with Steven Colbert on comedy central. Fantastic show, it’s news/political satire show.
kingman 26
12/13/2010-4:44pm at 4:44 pm (UTC -4)
Very funny show.
Mr North Jersey
12/13/2010-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
Blast Off!!!
kingman 26
12/13/2010-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
EL SID!
Always loved him.
Had he been in shape and had an IQ higher than Jose Reyes, he could have been a serious star.
kingman 26
12/13/2010-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
Nice job Rusty!
The RUSTY Bump is what it is called!
rustyjr
12/13/2010-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
I feel like a member of Digital Underground lol
kingman 26
12/13/2010-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
I am sure you have gotten busy in a Burger King rest room.
rustyjr
12/13/2010-5:02pm at 5:02 pm (UTC -4)
Close – behind a walgreens , under the belt parkway draw bridge lol
Krusty The Klown
12/13/2010-6:42pm at 6:42 pm (UTC -4)
HELLLOOO? STEVE TRASCHEL!?
I could say loads and loads about him but I’m exhausted.
But seriously, how could no one mention him?
Always took the ball every fifth day, a great stalwart for many years, it’s very unfortunate in the year they finally win he has his worst ERA and then we all know what happened in game 3 of the 06 NLCS. Willie never liked him I blame him and Steve’s impending divorce for a majority of his demise as a very reliable starter. (* Almost forgot, he started and won the division clinching game in 06, very deserving)
Ceetar
12/13/2010-6:50pm at 6:50 pm (UTC -4)
That’s cause he sucked in ’06, horribly.
kingman 26
12/13/2010-7:13pm at 7:13 pm (UTC -4)
“a great stalwart”
???
Is this a joke?
He won almost always for either terrible teams or when he had 6–10 runs scored behind him.
And that ’06 clincher, wow, CLUTCH!!
mr bill
12/14/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
In January 2009 I said the mets were going to compete in 2013. I guess I wasn’t wrong….Sadly.
TRS86
12/14/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Have not seen you in a while. Amazing that you would come by today. Eh, either way, welcome.