According to MIKE PUMA: Mets armed for trade
Alderson is believed to have inquired about the Cubs’ Tom Gorzelanny, who made $800,000 last season and wouldn’t break the Mets’ shoestring budget even if he were to double that number in arbitration. According to reports, the Cubs have been aggressively shopping the lefty, who went 7-9 with a 4.09 ERA last season. The Mets like the fact Gorzelanny would bring strikeout potential to a rotation — which includes Mike Pelfrey, R.A. Dickey and Jon Niese – that largely relies on opponents putting the ball in play.
So that all sounds great. A 27 year old, CHEAP, LHP with a consistent above average K/9 and a decent ERA in Wrigley as a LH. Yet why are the Cubs looking to move a cheap and team controlled pitcher from a staff that lost Lilly. A team that has more bloated contracts than even the Mets. Of course you could say “Because they are the Cubs”. Does that excuse fly with you? Is it because they believe they could get a great return? I don’t see it. As much as I like him, he’s not Matt Garza here. I can’t imagine a return greater than the depth he provides them.
So that being said, it’s time for some fun. Lets assume he is on the market. Lets also assume Sandy is interested. What would it take and what would you be prepared to give?
72 comments
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Robert Carson?, Nick the Stick?
Ceetar
12/17/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
It would likely take more than I’m willing to give. I’m not good at trades and picking prospects like that anyway. I certainly wouldn’t give up a ‘star’. one of our Duda type extra OF? no way it takes only that. gotta be pitching..
I would like another (non-Ollie) strikeout guy for our rotation though. But to correct Puma, Tom had a 7.9 K/9 rate last year, Niese had a 7.7, Dickey had a 5.4 which is a little less, but hardly “ball in play”.
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Don’t think there is any doubt thought that the Mets need more strike out pitchers. The guy is young and while he does walk too many he’s no Perez either.
I would certainly give Duda as the Cubs would most likely look for a future 1B. I would also think about guys like Carson, or any other minor league pitchers not named Mejia or Harvey.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
while Duda isnt a big prospect like some believe, I would like to hold onto him if possible. i was thinking along the lines Carson/Familia and Evans.
Ceetar
12/17/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
There’s the idea that strikeout pitchers are ‘the best’ do to the not putting the ball in play/luck and the whole defense independent pitching sabermetric stat thing, which is still heavily flawed.
It’s why Perez has had success in his career despite not really ever learning “how” to pitch.
What’s Tom’s velocity look like? I wouldn’t mind a real 94-95 fireballer to add to the mix in our rotation. Pelfrey throws there, and does need to work on the Ks more, but he really is more of a bad contact guy.
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
That’s not his game. He has a lot of movement and good 2ndary pitches. He throws in the low 90′s.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
his numbers were fairly solid and you would think he would do better in Citi as opposed to Wrigley. I certainly wouldnt give anyone of importance up for him but he would slot nicely into the 5th spot in the rotation
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I actually think he has mid-rotation potential. If I assigned numbers I would say he could easily be a #4.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
agreed although if they were to compliment Gorzelanny with Chris Young, i would make Young the 4th SP with Gee, Boof and whomever else Sandy invites to ST as depth in AAA if one or both of them dont work out.
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
No doubt. If they could get Young and Gorzy I would be a happy happy man.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
same although I highly doubt we will see 2 guys with major league deals brought in for the rotation…
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
There were some rumors/rumblings at the trade deadline last summer about trading Gorzelanny for a BP arm or two. This I read on the Cubs blogs and it was when the Cubs still thought they had a shot at making a run for it.
I guess there BP was really ineffective about that time and most Cub fans though zelanny was the most expendable. I think they wound up putting Zambrano in the BP and it was just as much ’cause they needed someone as it was Z wasn’t very effective as a starter there for awhile.
So…if they do have him on the trade market, what are they looking for? Still looking for BP depth? Yeah, good luck with that from the Mets as we’ve got our own problems in that area.
I’d take a flyer on him. I thought it was a good idea last year when these rumors first started surfacing.
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Also some rumors out there today that Edwin Jackson may be moved to free up some salary for the overspending WSox. I would take a look at him too. He would most likely cost a little more but still would not expect it to be a top prospect.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
he makes 8 mil this season so Im pretty sure he is way out of the price range but nonetheless he would be a great addition.
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
True just depends on what we would be willing to give up. The sox might eat some of that if the prospect return was good. Say they eat 3 million of it. I would imagine he would also be a Type B/A guy so arbitration would be possible. The Sox, however, would be better off keeping him until the deadline really.
njstuckintx
12/17/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
What would you give for him?
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Guys like Fmart, Duda. I would have to know if he is likely to be a Type A or B guy.
TRS86
12/17/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Also what I am getting pissed about is how every reporter assumes they know the Mets finances. Mets can’t afford Garza. Really? You actually think that if they matched up in terms of prospects and Sandy felt it was a good deal that they could not afford him. BS.
njstuckintx
12/17/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed! and how is not upping the payroll this year for a benifit for the next 3 years not worth the investment?
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Ditto.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
well if you think you can get a better pitcher next offseason, then it doesnt make sense to acquire someone lesser now
wannybackstra
12/17/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
The Mets really aren’t in position to not be interested in any reasonably priced live arms. Gorzellany was a fairly well regarded prospect once upon a time who has shown flashes of success. Worth a shot depending upon the price, though with his control he could just as easily be Ollie II if the NY environment does not suit him.
kistics
12/17/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
What are the Cubs looking for in return? Prospects? MLB Ready players? Does anyone know?
wannybackstra
12/17/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Mets Top Prospects List out from BA:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2011/2611054.html
kistics
12/17/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Who’s Cesar Puello?
wannybackstra
12/17/2010-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
Puello has been talked about a lot since his signing. He’s a young kid who can fly with hopefully developing power. A strong defender.
In 469 Savannah (A) at bats this season he hit .292 .375 .359 with 45 sbs.
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Since there doesn’t appear to be much going on today and probably won’t be as we head to the last weekend before Xmas, I was reading around and found this Yahoo sports post on the Lee signing and press conference: ‘Was Cliff Lee tweaking Rangers fans with teleprompter remark?’
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Was-Cliff-Lee-tweaking-Rangers-fans-with-telepro?urn=mlb-296847
Funniest thing in there was a link to a story on Lee’s wife, how her ‘list’ lent itself to choosing Philly and this tidbit from her:
‘”Note to fans, if we’re out to dinner don’t bother us so I continue to love it. I want to keep really loving it,” she said with a smile.’
****************
Okay……but the best was this rant from one poster on AA on this story:
(apology in advance at the language but it’s a quote):
I wanna try to get this just right. Here goes:
FUCK YOU, Cliff.
If you don’t think some city’s fans are up to your standards, just put on your red cap and shut the fuck up. you wanna know what else Philly fans don’t need prompting to do? How about killing people, How about vomiting on people. How about just starting fights in general. how about booing your arrogant prick ass when you regress, and yes cliff, you will.
I don’t respect you just because you looked at a fucking list your wife made. Whoopty fucking doo. I don’t respect you because you “didn’t chase the money,” because, whether you’ll admit it or not, you’re fucking chasing championships, and that ain’t no better. The Rangers fans, by all accounts, slobbed all over your knob and the team bent over backwards to try to resign you. How about chasing some fucking loyalty, you no good prick.
You, Halladay, Oswalt, and that closet cross dressing pansy Hamels can put your fucking uniforms on, take the mound, and imagine your the best pitching staff ever, but I hope the fuck if we can’t beat you, we can at least find a little anger to knock you teeth down your throats.
end of rant. (lstorie1971)
********************
Think lstorie1971 is more than pissed off that Lee signed with Philly?
fongy2
12/17/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Some angry people out there.
Rusty, b/t/w, GREAT JOB with on the coat drive!
I’ll always be convinced that if Bobby Ojeda had simply paid
some kid a few bucks to trim his hedges, we’d have won a 2nd Title
in ’88.
I have complete faith in whatever Sandy wants to and is doing BUT
I’m gettin’ a little nervous seeing guys signing all over and trades being made by everyone for players who don’t seem to cost all that
much. I hope The Wilpon’s finances aren’t worse than many think they are.
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Man, I still remember hearing about that hedge trimming incident. Just another injury to a long string of injuries to the pitching that year.
That’s why it’s so hard to make predictions. You just never know what’s going to happen during the season.
I too am beginning to wonder if the Mets aren’t becoming just a tad cautious. Sandy seems to think if he waits, they’ll be deals as prices come down. Just have to wonder who will be left out there.
TRS86
12/17/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
I think I have to trust Sandy. Perhaps he feels the talent left is about the same so might as well wait.
fongy2
12/17/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Same as what?.. What we already have?…I can see that BUT
adding depth wouldn’t hurt. We need bodies. SPing is thin,
BP is thin, position players after the solid 6or7 is also thin.
Not panicking BUT gettin’ a little nervous…….
TRS86
12/17/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
No just saying that all of the mediocre injury risk guys are not going to get gobbled up yet. Perhaps he does not see a big difference in Young and Francis so might as well wait.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
plus its not Sandy is gonna wake up one day and these guys will be signed. if they get offers from other teams the players agent will certainly go to Sandy and give him a shot to match/outbid…
fongy2
12/17/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Take a look back at Bobby O’s season in ’88….A 1.0WHIP,
5 complete game Shutouts, allowed only 5or6 HRs the entire
season and had like a 2.8era. Would have started two games against the Dogers…..
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
it is very curious but i wonder if maybe the whole no money thing is a facade to keep the price down but Im more inclined to believe that Sandy is pulling a Donnie Walsh and making moves for 2011 and if we happen to do well in the interim then its a bonus.
fongy2
12/17/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, well, I hope it works out better than it did for Donnie!
Because while that Celtic game Wednesday was the most
enjoyable Knick game I’ve watched in a decade, and I think
the most enjoyable Knick LOSS I’ve watched in 35+ yrs as a
fan, it showed why on so many levels The Knicks are nowhere
close to being a serious title contender.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
well you gotta crawl before you can walk although in 1 year the Knick went from perennial laughing stock to a guaranteed playoff team. I see no reason why the Mets cant be in a similar situation in 2012…
fongy2
12/17/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
O.K. BUT Apples and Oranges my friend.
The plan was to stink and clear room for Lebron and/or
Wade and they got neither.
This Knick team will likely get a low playoff spot, 6,7or8
and get blown out in the first round. Then what??
They’ll never win w/o a Superstar Wing guy, Melo, if he goes anywhere will be a Net. Then what? It’s bad enough
with D’antoni’s coaching style we won’t be serious contenders BUT worse that he and Walsh tied themselves
to Gallinari, who IS NOT the next Nowitski AND whos game
isn’t helpful to the guy they signed to be their face/superstar/main man Stoudemire.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
latest reports say Carmelo will ONLY sign long-term with the Knicks. also i believe you are a little confused b/c Gallinari does not have a bad contract at all, 3 mil this season, 4 mil next and 5 mil after that. the knicks are in an outstanding financial position being able to afford Carmelo next season while also having room to add another small piece here and there.
i wouldnt be surprised if the Knicks and Melo already had a wink wink deal that he will sign at the end of this season…
fongy2
12/17/2010-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
I meant more that they seem to believe Gallo is gonna be a major factor and b/c of his personal relationship D’antoni is never gonna sign off moving
him. I dont know ’bout you BUT if I could get Melo for
Gallo and Chandler,I’d do it ASAP!
fongy2
12/17/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
I see that the O-Dog finally got himself more than a one yr deal……
Not a bad double play combo now in San Diego with Hudson&Bartlett.
rustyjr
12/17/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
2 years 11 million – so for all the fans out there that thought be was Bonn be cheap phftttt
TRS86
12/17/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
What a terrible deal for the Pads. I guess when you are the Pads still applies.
fongy2
12/17/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Why terrible??.. I know he’s injury prone and I wouldn’t have wanted to give him two yrs…But terrible?
TRS86
12/17/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
The guy is about as overrated as they come. He is coming off years in which he had to wait until last minute just to get his 1 year deals. Who was going to offer him 2 years?
Lowest BA since 2003, lowest OBP since 2005, lowest HR total since 2002, lowest RBI since 2002, lowest SLG ever. Why give that guy a 2 year deal?
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
its a bad deal only if he continues on his downward trend (which he most likely will) although just based off his numbers from last season, its not so bad.
TRS86
12/17/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
See above, last year showed a dramatic decrease in offense.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
well if he replicates his 2010 stats in 2011 and 2012 then it is not a bad deal. you are just assuming (and probably rightly so) that he will continue to decline
TRS86
12/17/2010-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t see how .268 .338 .372 .710 is worth 5.5M per year, not only that but factoring in going to SD and 2 more years of aging.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
i agree that they are overpaying but I wouldnt call it a terrible deal. Its just surprising coming from a team that usually has a very low budget…
kistics
12/17/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
He has the grit factor…:P
fongy2
12/17/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
I think more it’s the positive effect/ everyone in the clubhouse loves him thing. This does b/t/w help…..
kistics
12/17/2010-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not so sure about his positive effect, etc. If he did affect people around him, he would do little better than 1 year contracts year after year.
TRS86
12/17/2010-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
Bingo…. 5th team since 2005.
fongy2
12/17/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Errrr….I think they needed a 2Bman.
fongy2
12/17/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Well…Everything I’ve read about him and seen/heard commentators say is only positive. Also, I saw a program
on MLB network a yr or two ago featuring a few MLBers
behind the scenes AND Hudson seemed like a very likable guy. So….
TRS86
12/17/2010-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, he’s been such a great clubhouse guy and so gritty that no team would keep him. Dbacks, nah. Dodgers benched him for the tongue in the playoffs, Twins, that’s a lot of teams for someone so gritty and such a clubhouse favorite.
Clubhouse favorite = easy to interview so lets make him into more than he is.
Maybe it’s his 17PA in the playoffs?
fongy2
12/17/2010-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe someone can help here….I’m reading about this Madoff thing and how money is being recovered from those who made an actual profit from investing with him AND returning that money to those who didn’t. How is this even possible? If one wasn’t complicit with Madoff but simply invested and also didn’t have as much in their accounts as they
thought BUT still made a profit…How can this be seized???
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I don’t get it either. Then again, I’m no lawyer…
Goes under the heading of ‘ill gotten gain’, I guess.
kistics
12/17/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps, whatever the money they’ve made was not considered as investments but part of the scam?
kistics
12/17/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
Just in case you were interested, today is Chase Utley’s 32nd birthday…
TRS86
12/17/2010-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
Merry Baerga Alomar Sandberg Randolph Castillo Day to Utley. (All guys who 32 did not do to well for their future.
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
I want the story in the NL east next summer to be all about how ‘the four horseman’ aren’t getting any run support whatsoever……
kistics
12/17/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah and how the Philly fans are booing their $25M 1B because he cannot live up to his contract.
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
I see Oakland claimed Philip Humber.
I thought he would have been a good pickup for the Mets to add some depth. Obviously, Sandy did not…..
TRS86
12/17/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
He may be out of options. Not sure.
kistics
12/17/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
Wasn’t he drafted like in ’06? I doubt he’s out of options..
metsfan4decades
12/17/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
I believe it was ’05 – so you may be right.
oleosmirf
12/17/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
it was 04, what a horrible pick that turned out to be…
kistics
12/17/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
You maybe right. I think he was released to make room for Frenchy…
Mets connections everywhere…
kistics
12/17/2010-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
slowwwww~~~
Ceetar
12/17/2010-8:41pm at 8:41 pm (UTC -4)
Giants have to be favored to repeat in that division at this point, Padres and Diamondbacks still suck..Dodgers? eh..
I looked more closely at Gorzelanny..eh…He’s basically a Ollie-lite but just hasn’t been as bad recently. He’s just not good.