" And a few more wqins couldn't hurt either !"
Well here we are, two days until Christmas and I am sure many of you are wondering what to get your favorite ( and not so favorite Mets) for the Holidays.
Well I happened to have my list right here of what I would like to see the Mets get in their stocking or under their Hanukkah bushes .
Ike Davis : some gym cushions so he can practice his over the railing catches.
Carlos Beltran: The Six Million Dollar Man’s bionic knees.
David Wright: A book on Buddhism so he can relearn plate discipline.
Jose Reyes : A spot on Dancing With The Stars – Hey it might help strengthen his legs !!
Mike Pelfrey : The mask that Hannibal Lecter wore in “Silence of the Lambs “ ( to curtail his licking ).
Jason Bay : A hockey helmet signed by the Mets medical staff.
Sandy Alderson : A ” World’s Greatest General Manager” statue
Johan Santana : A hot tub time machine so we can have the Johan of ’07 for the start of Opening Day .
Oliver Perez & Luis Castillo : One way tickets out of Flushing ( I hear Guam is very nice this time of year !)
And for all of us fans out there I hope we get the gift of respectability in the National League East.
And with that said….. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets Alumni celebrating birthdays today are:
Mets first baseman from ’63-’64,Tim Harkness (1937). He is said to be the first Canadian to ever play professional baseball here in the United States.
The beloved Jerry Koosman is 68 (1942) . That was the great thing about that Mets rotation in the late ’60′s – to mid ’70′s. Koosman would on many other teams be considered a Ace pitcher , instead of being behind Tom Seaver.
The recently dismissed Jerry Manuel is 57 (1953) .
The top pitching prospect of the Mets in the late ’70′s, Tim Leary (1958). It is unfortunate that he blew out his shoulder in ’81. I still blame Torre for that.
One of the rocks in the ’00 bullpen, Rick White is 42 (1968) . When you looked at him aty the time he looked like a slightly skinnier version of David Wells.
Seattle Mariners signed catcher, Mackey Sasser of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 23, 1992.
New York Mets signed free agent catcher,Todd Pratt on December 23, 1996. Who could ever forget that game winning heart stopping home-run that he hit against the Arizona Diamondbacks in the ’99 NLDS.
New York Mets signed free agent utility-man, Craig Paquette of the Kansas City Royals on December 23, 1997.
New York Mets traded outfielder, Roger Cedeño, relief pitcher, Octavio Dotel and minor league pitcher, Kyle Kessel to the Houston Astros for stud starting pitcher, Mike Hampton and outfielder, Derek Bell on December 23, 1999.This was possible the best trade of Steve Phillips’s tenure. We had obtained one of the best pitchers in the league and a outfielder – when healthy could put up great power numbers. Unfortunately Phillips didn’t have the foresight to lock up Hampton by the seasons end and he signed with the Colorado Rockies,
Texas Rangers signed spot starter/middle reliever, Mike Bacsik of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 23, 2003.
New York Mets signed free agent reliever, Juan Padilla on December 23, 2004.
Washington Nationals signed back up catcher, Gustavo Molina of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 23, 2008.
New York Mets signed free agent third string catcher, Omir Santos of the Baltimore Orioles on December 23, 2008. Omir was a one season wonder. He had a decent bat but pitchers didn’t trust this AAAA receiver so he spent the entire season in AAA Buffalo . he became a minor league free agent this winter.
And yes there are only two more days until Christmas, but remember, there are just 99 days until the Mets open the 2011 season against the Florida Marlins in Miami and 106 days until the Mets 2011 home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn will be playing a bag of frankincense at his church’s yearly Christmas pageant.
40 comments
kistics
12/23/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Box of PED’s for Ronny Paulino
metsfan4decades
12/23/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Box of happy pills for Frankie.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Funny stuff, Rusty.
Dancing lessons for Daniel Murphy for his footwork around 2B;
Midol for Carlos Beltran’s menstrual cramps (sorry M4D but I couldn’t resist);
Boxing gloves for K-Rod to protect his hands during fights;
One way tickets to anywhere for Luis and Ollie;
A prayer book for Dan Warthen because he’ll need lots of intervention with this pitching staff.
Ceetar
12/23/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
If only Warthen’s talents extended beyond praying for his pitchers to be good..
kistics
12/23/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
did you say FOOT-work?
sorry just had to say that….
kistics
12/23/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Holidays are always slow times for me at work… so I did some reading on shoulder surgery on pitchers thinking about Johan.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=5568179
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2010-11-16-shoulder_N.htm
And it’s really depressing. Sorry to share such depressing story with you before joyous times, but here are the list of pitchers who went through shoulder surgeries.
Chris Young
Mark Mulder
Mark Prior
Erik Bedard
Chien Ming Wang
Jeff Francis
Bradon Webb
Jason Schmidt
Chris Carpenter (he has had both shoulder surgery and TJ surgery!!)
Only pitcher who came back and pitching well is Carpenter and here’s what he said.
“With your elbow, you go through the program, get the range of motion back and do some wrist [exercises], and the pain goes away, everything feels good and off you go. When you get into the shoulder, it’s a flip of the coin.”
I don’t see Johan pitching effectively at all this season and maybe next season as well.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for this. I’ve been saying here forever that shoulder surgery is a big problem for pitchers but was too lazy to find the articles or research the players.
I agree that I’d expect little from Santana this season and am only vaguely optimistic about next.
kistics
12/23/2010-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
Thus, I think Sandy & co needs to find a legit Ace via FA or trade, because the future is so uncertain with Johan.
stickguy
12/23/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
that is why I have said for awhile that they should proceed as if he doesn’t exist, and if he comes back and adds any value at all consider it found money.
Too bad that (unless they have some insurance payout) it means that a 40 mill payroll is effectively going to be about 115 on the field (just take his 23 or so right off the top).
they should be used to that though, having paid just about 23 this year to 3 dead spots (ollie, slappy and Frnechy). Well, 2 dead, and one worthless.
Ceetar
12/23/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
Well, Young and Francis are back and ready to go..
I don’t care what Carpenter said. his personal experience has roughly zero relevance to Johan. everyone experiences things differently and recovers differently. Were all these guys the same exact surgery?
Also, as much as the list of what’s usual with surgery is helpful, it’s hardly a hard and fast rule. Johan could recover just fine. The data helps, but everyone is different. You gotta get him back on the horse so to speak, before you can really judge. Johan has typically been a pretty healthy and quick-healing guy, judging from the reports on the other surgeries.
Will he be the same when he comes back? who knows, but what I do know is that he is an intelligent competitor, and even if he’s “reduced” he’s still going to be a capable pitcher if he’s not an Ace.
I’m fine with what Stick said, treat it as he’s not coming back. That’s fine, and that’s what Sandy’s doing. Talkinga bout having 7-8 pitchers of depth. If he comes back and 5 pitchers are doing well, then it’s g ravy. and you’ve got an awesome weapon in the pen.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Odds are 1 in 176 million that you will win Mega Millions. The fact that you’ve lost every other time has nothing to do with whether you will this time. Do you still like your chances?
Ceetar
12/23/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
mega millions is a math problem. Human bodies, and sports, are not math problems. If you find me data taht says every single pitcher that has had this surgery’s career has ended, then fine. But when their is a gray area, it’s largely due to the variance in the human body.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
But if more cases turn out poorly than not, why can’t you at least be realistic about the possibilities?
Ceetar
12/23/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
Because it’s not probability, it’s healing and recovering. It’s not random chance. If 20% of pitchers recover just fine from this exact surgery, is it really 20% that Johan recovers, or is there something about him the bucks the ‘odds’. Also, a dozen or so surgeries is hardly enough to establish a realistic sample size. Other things are in play, particularly the specific rehab programs, and what exercises they’re doing once they’ve recovered. Maybe one guy rides a bike, another likes to jog. Maybe one pitcher is a vegan, and another eats cheeseburgers. All these things can affect overall health and recovery, but no one’s narrowed it down to a science yet.
Nowhere am I making any claims about Johan, but I’m not willing to look for evidence that he won’t recover as expected. I’ll go by what his specific doctors, in his specific case, say, and right now they haven’t really said much and the ‘consensus’ seems to be start throwing in January and go from there.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I hope that you’re right and that Johan is Superman and can overcome what few before him have.
I suppose it is nice to always see the bright side. But it must set you up for a lot of disappointment.
kistics
12/23/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
The reason I’ve been reading up on this shoulder surgery stuff is because the media says as if when Johan comes back around All-Star break, he’ll be back to himself again. And this is far from the reality. I think there’s a lot greater possibility that he will hit the DL after couple starts and shuts down for the season rather than be an effective pitcher like he used to be. From all the names listed above, it looks like it would take at least 1.5 -2 years before you have a hope of recovering from shoulder surgery. Even if he starts to throw in January and comes back in July, he’ll be far from being who he once was and we should not expect that at all.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
I am really struggling with Ceetar’s “logic” on this. Of course, they’re always a chance for an aberration. But why count on that?
kistics
12/23/2010-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
I think he’s more cautiously optimistic than us. Can’t blame the man for seeing things glasses half full and then some
Ceetar
12/23/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
I hardly see evidence that my way of thinking is an ‘abberation’ and not merely an alternative. If Johan’s gonna end up back on the DL, he should never be activated. he should remain on the 60day DL (which will likely happen, clearing up yet another 40man slot should we need it) and work on rehab. I guess at one point what you really need him doing is throwing full games to live batters, and the CBA will not allow him to do that in Buffalo all season without being activated and DL’d again, but still. If he’s not healthy and still in pain, he shouldn’t reach the point of pitching for the Mets. slow and steady..
The media is clueless in general, but I haven’t seen it clearly one way or another.
kistics
12/23/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
What I’m worrying about is not Johan’s ability to be 100% and pitch at the major league level. I don’t doubt that he will be able to do that. But what I’m worried about is that his 100% healthy post surgery could be 84mph FB with 76mph changeup.
I read somewhere that when Jason Schmidt was 100% healthy and threw off the mound, he felt like his old self pre-surgery. But the radar gun was showing 84-85 mph.
I just hope I’m wrong.
Ceetar
12/23/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
It’s always a possibility. And maybe it’s something that comes back in time and strength, and that’s where the real recovery comes in? HOpefully he’s talented enough to slow down the changeup and still be marginally effective, if not acelike.
but hey, lets be optimistic. How about this? The velocity drop we saw in Johan in 2010 was a result of the weak capsule. He was starting to get a little higher in August, and maybe that’s what put it over the top and tore it. Maybe now that he’s going to be healed and recovered, he actually gets the velocity back and throws 92-93 by the end of next year/early 2012? can dream can’t i?
kistics
12/23/2010-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
I suppose you can dream
After all Santa is coming on Saturday…
Kidding aside, Johan has one of the biggest balls (can I say this here?) in all of baseball IMO. So, I’m sure the chances of him recovering are much greater than some other pitchers.
Ceetar
12/23/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
He’s got bigger balls? Wouldn’t that make them easier to hit? Maybe he should try throwing a normal sized one..
stickguy
12/23/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
I think that is basically what Carpenter said. Much more of a crap shoot than elbow surgery, which is much more predictable.
wider standard deviation maybe?
Ceetar
12/23/2010-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
probably has to do with the wider range of motion in teh shoulder. (ball and socket joint if I recall?) More scar tissue, more muscles, more things that need to recover and be strengthened. Not just from the cutting, but from the layoff and atrophy. And this applies in other places too. your legs play into velocity a lot, which partially explains Perez’ drop in velocity following knee surgery (Hi Sabathia!)
So how much of that is just damage and scar tissue, and how much of it is remedies by repeated motion and strengthening of muscles? reps reps reps. I don’t think Warthen/coach did enough for Perez and Maine in the strength and conditioning aspect (although as Maine was still injured and Ollie is Ollie, I’m not sure it would’ve helped in either case)
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
This Web site, will have some info on the anterior capsule — the area in which Johan had his injury.
Carpenter’s injury was to the labrum, which is cartilage.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.sports-injury-info.com/shoulder-ligaments.html
Ceetar
12/23/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
and Young just seems to be weak shouldered from what I can read. there wasn’t any real reason for it.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
multiple shoulder surgeries must have nothing to do with it.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
this link to shoulder anatomy in general: http://www.sports-injury-info.com/shoulder-anatomy.html
kistics
12/23/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
So.. Johan’s injury is almost like he dislocated his shoulder?
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
the shoulder can dislocate with or without this injury. but the way i understand it is that one can lead to the other but not necessarily. the rest of the “stuff” so to speak can still keep the shoulder attached.
wannybackstra
12/23/2010-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
Young is an awful example considering how steeply his velocity has dropped and the number of healthy innings he’s pitched.
By the way, according to a NYT article in September, Johan is not even expected to throw until March.
Ceetar
12/23/2010-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
the most recent info was that he may begin throwing in mid January instead of the late January that was planned. That seems to be pretty conclusive, so I don’t know what the times was up to way back in september.
kistics
12/23/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
My comment is awaiting moderation…
kistics
12/23/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Can someone moderate my comment?
rustyjr
12/23/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
I am a centrist – not a moderate
kistics
12/23/2010-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
thanks for moderating my comment. it must be good to be an author :p
fongy2
12/23/2010-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
We’re all gettin’ ugotz for Christmas from our beloved Mets!
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all ye faithful!
Rusty, how exactly is Joe Torre responsible for Tim Leary blowing
out his arm???……How didn’t Little Stevie have the foresight to lock-up
Mike Hampton when he was about to be a FA and wanted no part of
New York City???…..Let’s be fair. On that note: Happy Birthday Jerry…
Wherever you are. No, you weren’t a great…..or even good Mgr…BUT
We’ve had FAR WORSE!!!
Agree with you Wanny on Young…..Always liked him BUT he’s not the
same and likely to never be the Pitcher he was 3, 4 yrs ago.
Lastly, please folks….Let’s not spend all winter and spring waiting like
dogs for their masters on Johan’s return. Have we learned nothing over
the years??? It’s gonna be a LONG season fellow fanatics…….
Mr North Jersey
12/23/2010-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
NICE RUSTY!
THIS ONE WAS MY FAV.
“Jason Bay : A hockey helmet signed by the Mets medical staff.”