Dear Mets Fans:
Happy New Year! I hope everyone enjoyed their holiday.
With Spring Training just six weeks away, I wanted to update you on our preparation for the 2011 season.
Yesterday, we wrapped up two days of meetings in Port St. Lucie where we went over organizational philosophy and how to implement it throughout the major and minor leagues. It was also the first opportunity for Terry Collins and his staff to sit down and discuss the mechanics of Spring Training and determine how they will emphasize fundamentals, mental and physical preparation and hard work. As Terry has said, the driving force will be playing the game the right way, which will lead to more wins.
Over the past two months, we have followed our plan of filling out our roster with reasonably priced players who have significant upside potential. As I have said before, our payroll – which will be among the highest in baseball – gives us limited flexibility, but we do have money to spend. We have acquired players who we think can thrive at Citi Field and complement our existing group of players.
As you likely know, earlier this week we signed pitchers Chris Capuano and Taylor Buchholz. Chris is a former All-Star and 18-game winner who last year came back from his second Tommy John surgery. We are confident he has the ability to re-establish himself as a dependable starter who can excel in our ballpark. Taylor has fully recovered from elbow surgery and has the potential to be a solid arm out of the bullpen.
Every year players come out of nowhere to become success stories. Look no further than R.A. Dickey. He signed a minor-league deal last January, became a fixture in the starting rotation in May, and finished the season with 11 victories and a 2.84 ERA. I believe some of our offseason acquisitions can be this year’s version of R.A.
We are excited about 2011. We have a solid core group of players who we expect will make significant contributions to making the Mets a success. As we have said all along, we will put ourselves in the best position possible to succeed both in the short and long term.
There will be an exciting brand of baseball played at Citi Field this year that matches the passion and intensity that you have for the team.
Thank you for your continued support and I look forward to seeing you at the ballpark.
Sincerely,
Sandy Alderson
General Manager
221 comments
TRS86
1/7/2011-8:08am at 8:08 am (UTC -4)
Let the bashing begin.
Ceetar
1/7/2011-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
hang on, still looking for spelling or grammar errors to pick at.
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
Just enough realism and optimism without going overboard, IMO. No outlandish claims and it’s up to everyone’s interpretation to define ‘exciting brand of baseball’. Maybe it’s competing for a playoff spot, maybe it’s watching some of the younguns develop and contribute.
I’ve got no problem with this.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Saying we can find another RA Dickey is like saying “we won the lottery once, we figure we can do that again!”.
TRS86
1/7/2011-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
This year’s version of RA Dickey does not necessarily mean the same level of production. Just the thought that they have found someone they believe can provide production at a cheap cost.
Ceetar
1/7/2011-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
I’d equate it more to poker. “I won a big pot once!” because there is a lot of skill involved here,but still a fair amount of luck too. And it’s about percentages.
kistics
1/7/2011-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Isn’t this what Sandy has been saying since he was hired? I don’t see any news out of this statement.
fongy2
1/7/2011-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Chris Capuano?…Really?…F*ckin’ Sandy, IT’S BEEN SIX YEARS SINCE
HE WON 18 GAMES, SIX YEARS…..Now if THAT doesn’t sound like
some Freddy Wilpon BullSh*t. Jeez, I thought we were finally past
this kind of crap. Here’s a hint….. Don’t say ANYTHING. It’s not needed.
Just work on rebuilding this team. 95% of the fans trust you and are behind you Mr. Alderson. This sounds like a left over “fill in the blanks”
letter from the Omar era.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
At least it was grammatically correct.
fongy2
1/7/2011-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
LOL…..Better than I could do. What are you pulling for this weekend? I’m in on Chiefs and Jets.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I’d prefer both those teams winning, but my gut says Ravens and Colts.
stickguy
1/7/2011-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
pull hard for the packers. really hard. cash in all your karmic brownie points. I need the Eagles to lose, just for my own sanity. I can’t take the local 24/7 media coverage any more, and if I hear “fly eagles fly” 1 more time, I may go postal.
Ceetar
1/7/2011-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
death to the Eagles.
I’m thinking Colts, Packers, Ravens. (And Saints, which barely needs to be said, although I think it’ll be somewhat more competitive than people are saying)
kistics
1/7/2011-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
Hope it was your well paid job (or only paid job
)that put you in Philly
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, followed a job offer. Now I can’t wait to leave, although with a kid in HS, that might have to wait!
TRS86
1/7/2011-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
Telling you Charlotte is right here waiting on you. I can get you an 3 bedroom apt with 1500 square feet for around 1,000 a month.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
come to houston. 1300 will get you a 3 bedroom house around 1800 sq feet. buy lots of shorts and flip flops.
TRS86
1/7/2011-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
Well yeah the housing market stinks here too. 130k gets you quite the house down here.
kistics
1/7/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
3 bedroom with 15-1800 sq ft would cost… i would say min $2500 up here…
and it’s been snowing here since last night…
so screw both of you cheap-rent-warm-weather SOBs!
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
And when it’s 110 with 95% humidity, i’ll say the same to you kistics.
kistics
1/7/2011-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t even look at a house with $130k….
TRS86
1/7/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
So see Charlotte is looking better and better.
kistics
1/7/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
stop confusing me Real….
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t come to NJ. Don’t think youu couldn’t rent a garage for $1,000 a month…..
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t pay my property taxes for $1,000 a month MF.
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
I would move to Charlotte tomorrow if I had a job to go to.
I could buy a palace with what I could sell my house up here for (even at the new, 1999 price levels!)
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
Stick have you really looked for that job? Remember down here you can take a huge pay-cut and still be well off.
kingman 26
1/7/2011-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
The Charlotte area is wonderful…lived there as a kid in the 70s. Great place.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
With all that NY money he could come down here and live at Lake Norman where all the superstars have homes. OK not super stars but all the NASCAR guys anyway. LOL.
stickguy
1/7/2011-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
not so much down there yet. Not that much comes across my looking in my field from down there, but I probably will dig a little deeper shortly.
TRS86
1/7/2011-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Fongy what is wrong with the next statement?
“We are confident he has the ability to re-establish himself as a dependable starter who can excel in our ballpark.”?
He did not say that he will be an 18 game winner or that he is counting on him to be one.
He said they are confident he has the ability to re-establish himself as a dependable starter in Citi.
Sounds refreshing to me.
stickguy
1/7/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
that’s what I took it to mean. The reference to 18 wins seemed to just be pointing out that these are guys that have actually been good and have (had?) talent, along with prior success. The assumption bing that if they are recovered from th ebody work, they might recapture that.
Different message than signing a bunch of career minor leaguers and expecting them to suddenly be good enough for the majors.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
I guess when you’ve had you hopes dashed and been kicked in the nards a couple of times, you tend to get pessimistic on people selling hope.
TRS86
1/7/2011-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
IMO, what is refreshing is to me he is not really selling anything.
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
agreed. Basically he is saying what I said (and of course got plenty of kool-aide drinker, un-realistic fool responses!). The team has a lot of talented players, getting paid a lot of money, but has underacheived recently. So plug the holes the best you can, get everyone focused, and see what happens when the games start. And don’t discount the possibility of the team finally living up to its potential.
stickguy
1/7/2011-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Well, this has to all be BS. they aren’t paying any attention to 2011, they don’t give a flying F##k if they win or not, and it has been punted right through the back of the endzone for a touchback. 60 wins maybe, thanks to the freaking do-nothing FO.
Hey, must be ture, just ask anyone over at MMO. they will be happy to tell you.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
lol
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman I know this means a lot more to you than anyone else here but it is being reported that the Olney tweet regarding the Cubs and Matt Gaarza appear to have actually happened.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5998431&campaign=rss&source=CHICAGOHeadlines
I am sure you wanted to be the 1st to know seeing how much of a liar Olney is in your eyes and all.
I will let you know as soon as I get the Cubs statement denying this story.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
A blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again…
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Yea that must be it.
BTW I don’t have SNY but is it true they last night said that the Mets made an offer to Chris Young on the Hot stove report?
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
I unfortunately do no have SNY either. Got the Baseball package last year. This year I think I’m changing up packages to get SNY though.
SNY Please. SNY Please.
kistics
1/7/2011-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Get your New York Sports Here!
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
this news reporter bashing is nonsense. sure, some of them are silly but most are probably relying on legitimate sources and I think they are probably right more than we give them credit for.
anyway, we seem to rely on them for topics of conversation and tend to give them more weight when we like the results they are predicting.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
They definitely can and are many times a source for topics of conversation.
That some give them more weight at different times based on if one agrees with what they are saying or not is human nature I would say and not an uncommon thing to see on a everyday basis.
I mean if you let’s say feel that Keith Hernandez belongs in the Hall Of Fame for example you will obviously tend to agree more with those in the media that share your thoughts.
kingman 26
1/7/2011-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree Wanny–they constantly print things which just are not true…and when the Phils signed Lee you made a comment like this praising Heyman for mentioning a mystery team the night before but speculation about the Phils had been all over the place before that–who was the mystery team?
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
King — you are certainly not a hypocrite as your position on this issue is un-waivering despite the various disagreements we have on this.
re: Lee — the talk was all about the Rangers and the Yanks. I had not seen one report suggesting the Phillies were in it. And indeed in those final days before Cliffy decided to get up off his barstool next to Norm Peterson and chose to go to Philly, it seemed to have been a consensus that it was Yanks and Philly.
Then, everyone killed Heyman — and he was right. Just like when people killed Rubin for calling out Bernazard — and he was right too.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly
kingman 26
1/7/2011-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
Ah thanks for the totally unprovoked calling me out; in character for our leading hypocrite.
To be brutally honest I can at any time find an infinite number of better things to do/read/think about than Olney’s Tweets–how long has he been Tweeting this? Since November?
You need some more hobbies.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Considering you was the one that felt the need to make a point of it to begin with I knew you would be the one that would appreciate it the most.
LoL
kingman 26
1/7/2011-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
Yes again responding to your worship of Olney.
LOL we can agree on!
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
Worship? Is that what you really see?
You really are at a loss then.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
Gentlemen, lets be ducks here. Water off the proverbial backs and such.
Quack.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
Moo…
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, do you two wrestle for that leading hypocrite crown at the next pay per-view? Just wondering if we can make it a triple threat match?
kingman 26
1/7/2011-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
A lot of things I may be but a hypocrite I am not.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
No Kingman but I am sure all 3 of us have been and will be called that.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah I think I will refrain from the hypocrite stuff myself and let Kingy run with that one.
I don’t think no good will come from me going down that road.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Thank god we didnt go near Garza. Cubs gave up a boatload…
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
did the met’s have anything that would compare to the package the cubs gave?
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
the way I see it the cubs gave up their best pitching prospect, SS prospects and 2 decent OF prospects and a AAAA player.
so thats something similar to Mejia, Tejada, Duda, Ratliff for the extremely overrated Matt Garza.
TRS86
1/7/2011-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
From what it looks like
Mejia, Havens, Duda/Thole and Evans.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
would you have done that? i think i would have, if it wasn’t thole involved.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
i think you have confused Garza with Grienke
TRS86
1/7/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmm, Garza might actually be as good as Grienke. Debatable.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
Garza is consistent and solid but is nowhere near Grienke. Granted Grienke has mental issues I want no part of in NY but Garza is simply not the pitcher many have made him out to be.
Garza needs to lower his ERA by a full run to make him worth Mejia and Havens and more
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
how much does a move to the NL usually drop a pitchers ERA?
Ceetar
1/7/2011-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
drops in ERA about as much as the average runs scored drops. That switching league stuff is such bunk. The offense drops, due to no DH, on both offense and pitching. It doesn’t actually make anyone a more successful pitcher.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Take a look at their career numbers and remember Garza is pitching in the AL East. Greinke had one really good year but other than that he’s about the same as Garza.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Well, i’m not high on Mejia, havens would be the crown of that lot, evans is a throw in and (stick, earmuffs!) Duda hasn’t impressed me all that much.
So, all in all, I would have pulled the trigger on that for Garza and subsequently been flamed i’m sure. but I guess that’s why Sandy makes more than I do.
TRS86
1/7/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Nope. Not at this point. You are looking at a potential SP young and under control cheaply for years to come, a 2B replacement as early as next year and more. Too much for me and I love Garza.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
The controlable part is nice, but if it’s all about going cheap, Met’s have 60 mil coming off the books. factoring in a re-signing of reyes, raises and such, there is plenty there to cover the difference between mejia vs. Garza.
At the end of the day, i’ll live with Mejia and hope he turns my thoughts on him around.
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
given that the rough translation Mejia and Flores, along with a couple of next tier down guys (gee and Ratliff in his scenerio, but obviously could be any number of others) I have to say no. Garza is a nice pitcher, but not a difference maker, and with some creativity, you can probably get similar production out of ST deals.
If I am moving the best 2 prospects in a thin system, I want someone better back. Garza is not super cheap, so you don’t gain there, or under control for that long (2 more seasons?).
Now, if you said those 2 for a guy like Hamels with 3 years control left, then sure.
TRS86
1/7/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
I am not sure once you throw Flores in if the deal is comparable anymore. That’s the problem. The Mets farm is not deep enough at the top level to really match up. I think Flores is worth more than Lee but Lee is worth much more than Havens so we would be stuck.
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
the problem is, while the mets can match the top level talent, they would have none left.
other teams, aparently the Cubs but certainly the red sox, KC, Rangers, seem to have more guys like that.
giving them the letter grades, it is like all the teams have 2 As including the mets, but the Mets don’t have a spare A and 5 B+ guys to allow them to trade the As.
kistics
1/7/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
I think it looks more like
Mejia, Flores, Duda, and 2 AAAA guys.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
Well, that I wouldn’t do.
kistics
1/7/2011-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
Ted Berg broke it down pretty good comparing Mets prospects to what the Cubs gave up. See MR NJ’s link below
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Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
Ted Quarters did a post comparing the cost of Gaarza.
http://www.tedquarters.net/2011/01/07/the-cost-of-garza/
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
was a good breakdown.
kistics
1/7/2011-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
So.. who’s the odd man out in Cubs rotation? Easiest to move is Gorzo or Wells, but I can’t imagine they would move them unless they get pretty good prospects in return.
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
would not mind if they somehow managed to snag Gorzo.
never underestimate (overestimate?) what the Cubs FO might do. Even a new iteration of it.
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
I still think Gorzelanny is worth a look-see.
TRS86
1/7/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure because I think they are even deeper than that and some maybe out of options.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
Garza’s controllability in 2011 is irrelevant b/c chances are were not making the playoffs with or without him. The only thing the mets are focused on are 2012 and beyond where Garza’s controllabilty becomes less attractive
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
According to BA Archer was Chicago’s #1 prospect, Lee #4 and Guyer #10. Chirinos is not on the list but is rated their best defensive catcher. He’s 26 and just reached AAA with a career minor league line of .260 .350 .422. In other words his ceiling is a backup catcher. Fuld is AAA material.
Guyer, 24, was one of the older hitters on his AA team. Lee is a baby and so much can happen — good and bad — over the next few years. His numbers do suggest he’ll be a better hitter than Tejada.
I don’t think this is a ridiculous trade at all. Oleo is underestimating Garza — a legit front of the rotation arm entering his prime. Plus, Perez should be a serviceable bench player (.279 .362 .387 with lots of stolen base speed and a strong arm) for the Cubs.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
maybe i overvalue Garza, which is why i would have pulled the trigger. Would you have pulled the deal if it didn’t include Flores? Mejia, Duda, Havens, Fmart? or Evans or whomever?
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
I’d probably do Mejia, Duda, Tejada and Evans for Garza. Havens over Tejada would cause a little hesitation but I’d probably do that too.
I think having top-end major leaguers is more important than having minor league inventory. Duda and Evans (especially) seem like little more than inventory. Mejia is not a can’t miss. Havens might have the greatest chance of being a successful major leaguer form a skills perspective but can’t stay healthy.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
My feelings as well, but typed better than I did above. Mejia’s frame, to me, is smallish, I don’t see him being a mainstay in the starting rotation. I know there are exceptions (Oswalt, Pedro), but those are few and far between.
And you always would want to trade up, to get the better talent. So top-end major leaguers over depth in the minors! well said, again.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
Garza has posted 2 consecutive seasons with an ERA slightly under 4. Why should I trade our best SP prospect for that?
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
If your best pitching prospect is not a “can’t miss” prospect, what does it matter what rank he is? What rank would Mejia be if you plopped him into another organization? I doubt he would be the top pitching prospect in all but a few of the other organizations.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Greinke’s last year was over 4.00 would you trade a top prospect for him either?
Garza has had an ERA under 4 his first 4 full seasons as a starter in the AL East and been over 200 innings the last 2 years.
That’s an upper rotation pitcher, not a mid-tier.
stickguy
1/7/2011-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
IMO, SP pitching is tricky to deal with, both for deciding on a trade package, and FA contract.
If you are talking about a true stud/ace (johan at one point, CC when he signed, Halladay) then you will pay.
if you are talking about back end of the rotation you might as well churn the cheaper system guys, lower priced FAs on ST deals (instead of paying huge money for Perez, Silva, guys like that on LT deals).
the trick is dealing with guys in between the extremes. say a #3/#2 type. And probably where you would have to stick Garza now.
do you pay like it was a star? Cubs seemed to have done it. But, can you shop arond, and put together guys like Wolf, Francis/Young, pinero on a year to year basis, and get comparable production, for less $$ and no big hit to prospects?
also shows exactly how valuable it is to a team to develop guys like Pelf and Neise to be parts of your rotation, on the cheap!
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
Garza is a good #2 SP or a #3 SP on a top team. Im not going to trade our #1 pitcher for someone who isnt an ace.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
Mejia is our #1 pitching prospect because there are no other candidates. Someone has to be #1.
Have you seen something that suggests he will be better than Garza in the near (or long) term? I have not.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
To me that’s short sighted unless you really believe that Mejia is a can’t miss guy.
stickguy
1/7/2011-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
the volume is an issue, as is including the 2nd best prospect they have.
I said earlier in the year that I would trade Mejia even up for Garza. Future potential for now production. So if the deal was say Mejia, Kirk N., and someone from lower down that was not considered a future star (hell, give them ratliff) then probably, go for it.
It wasn’t really Mejia in the scenerio. It was the add ons.
also, one report I saw said there could be other pieces coming back to the Cubs, but I have no idea if that was true or not.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Looks like a good trade for both IMO>
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Indeed. But given the Cubs luck, Lee will become Ichiro at age 20 and Garza will become Anthony Young.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Well they did get lucky with Silva.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
that was like you or I winning Powerball lucky.
maybe that will inspire someone to take on Ollie Perez! (then again, we’d have to take on their Milton Bradley if this will be analogous to the Silva scenario)
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Yup, so in real life we are better just buying a scratch off ticket and giving it to Ollie to occupy his time in the pen.
stickguy
1/7/2011-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
well, as always, it takes a few years to really evaluate a trade invloving prospects For every Colon deal, there is a Santana deal.
The bigger issue though is depth in the system. Prospects are the currency of MLB. And once you spend it, you don’t have any more.
so if you trade 4 top rated guys for Garza, you also don’t have them in the system to call up, or trade for someone else.
maybe the guys the Mets didn’t trade become stars in Queens. Or, maybe they get traded for multiple other players instead. Or 1 better guy. We don’t know of course now, but it is a given if you trade them now, you don’t have them anymore!
in this case, I think that has to be a huge part of the reason the Mets were not (assuming they weren’t) involved, just too much body wieght to give up.
and in practical terms, based on last years results, you can probably get close to the same production with a few ST pieces (hell, sign Young and Francis for about what Garza will make). Even a Young and Capuano tag team can probably put up similar output to Garza next year.
Still, I would like to have Garza on the roster. But, I also want a lot of other things too, and right now, the Mets aren’t going to get many of them, and frankly, I don’t think Garza is the difference between playoffs and also ran in 2011.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
I really get the feeling that the next 2 years+ is going to be hardcore on the draft picks. Like not signing type A’s. Which if they go bonkers and win on the Yu Darvish deal, would fit nicely into not losing a draft pick. Only problem is you have to figure the posting cost is prob. going to be the same if not more than dice-k’s.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
Why value minor league inventory over unquestioned major league talent and performance? Why save them for a player that may not become available when there is a good one available now?
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
when was the last time a top SP wasn’t traded in a given offseason???
stickguy
1/7/2011-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
if you want to pay top $, you can always get someone like that.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
So pass up the chance to get better now because you may be able to get better later?
Look, for all we know the Mets inquired about Garza and the Rays couldn’t give a hoot about the Mets prospects. Likewise, this type of move might be premature for this administration who probably has yet to see any film or reports on the Havenses of the world.
The problem I have in this discussion is the idea of maintaining minor league inventory to the detriment of the major league team. It makes no sense. And as Grave’s work had shown us; the team acquiring prospects usually loses the trade.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
True but 4D’s point below is valid. You have to be sure when giving up what little high level you have that the player in return is a difference maker. It’s not just about what the players you trade could have became but also what they could have brought otherwise.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with all that. But we’re not really discussing prospects in Justin Upton’s prospect stratosphere.
With Evans and Duda and Tejada we’re talking about guys who may be anywhere from organizational filler to useful player on the bench. These guys aren’t netting big returns in separate deals. These are volume inventory pieces to trades.
I agree with what you said below that trading 3 out of our 4 top prospects (assuming they are real prospects and not just defaults) would be more problematic.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
Well yeah I agree on the defaults but even if they are defaults it’s still the best we got and still our only true trading chips.
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
You’ve got a point but to me, it’s not a question of unquestioned ML talent in giving up 4 parts for Garza, it’s the fact that our prospects are thin right now. So if we’re going to give up 4 in one deal it had better be for the right piece for a few years to come as we won’t have much else to deal in the near future.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Two me it’s not the amount it’s the level. We could give up guys like Gee, Duda, Evans, Murphy etc and move on and be happy. It’s including 2 of the top 3 or 4 that would hurt.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, the lower ranked guys are ranked lower either because of lower ceilings or lower probability. There’s no sense in passing up undisputed solid major leaguers (i used the term solid though I think he is better than that) just to hold on to either low ceiling or low probability inventory.
TRS86
1/7/2011-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
Right but lets assume you have to give up Mejia and Havens or even Flores. To me if you are going to do that then you have to really be sure that Garza is the real deal.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
There is little evidence that he isn’t the real deal. And in the Met’s current rotation, he’d be your opening day starter.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
Would he be with a healthy rotation?
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
My point is that IF you trade say Mejia and Flores you better be damn sure because you are not going to be able to trade for any other top notch players for a while unless someone really flies up the ranks in your system.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
No, Santana would be that guy. But, Santana would be that guy on 2/3rd’s of the leagues rotations. Garza is a solid number 2 (insert loose stool jokes here) and would strengthen the rotation for more than just 1 year.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
And that is a valid question TRS. Looking at how the team is constructed, other then the potential for Reyes leaving, most of the spots are filled, so there really isn’t a major need to bring someone in, other than pitcher. Which is what bringing Garza in would have done.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
In those 3 years? CF, RF, 2B, SS, RP….
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
what team has all their spots filled for the next 3 years?
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
Every year the rankings get turned over — old guys out, new guys in. At this time next year we may be speaking of Brad Holt and Jeurys Familia and Aderlin Rodriguez as top end guys and Kirk N and Havens as the filler.
As far as Santana goes — he’s a complete question mark going forward. Garza would be the best pitcher on the Mets for Opening Day 2011 and for the foreseeable future.
Anyway, what’s the difference whether Garza would be in front of or behind Santana? Even with Santana, this team needs another big time starter.
This type of logic did not prevent the Phillies from trading prospects to compile a rotation with four legit aces.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
Nothing really. Just to me saying opening day starter implies that he is an ace where as it’s like your point that he would be by default.
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-3:19pm at 3:19 pm (UTC -4)
Exaclty. IMO though, I’m not giving up those 3 in one deal for a Garza type.
kingman 26
1/7/2011-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
Fine comment by Sandy-thanks for posting it Rusty.
A little honesty can be a great thing in sports.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
“This type of logic did not prevent the Phillies from trading prospects to compile a rotation with four legit aces.”
You know wanny the decision if doing such a deal has been questioned by a few as it being necessary or not.
I know that 3 Aces didnt provide them a W.S. appearance so I guess 4 should or at least they hope. Yet if they fail at making a W.S. appearance once again I can see where people will begin to question if the Phillies are a team or just a bunch of high priced players.
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I think the jury is still out on the Phillies.
I want to see how they fare the next couple of years. They’ve got a high payroll and prospects near-ML-ready thin. They’ve got 3 of 4 aces on the wrong side of 30.
Could go either way…
stickguy
1/7/2011-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
also, the phils rotation was fine last year after they got Oswalt. Plenty to get them into the playoffs, and actually plenty to win in the plyaoffs.
they lost because the offense went AWOL, and given that they also lost their primary RH bat (and based on WAR, OPS, and MVP voting, their best position player) with no close to comparable player coming back to replace him.
add 1 more year of mileage on the other old guys, and it might be the offense they keeps them out of the WS again this year!
but, we shall see. Hopefully the age bug does cause some regression this year for the high mileage guys (2 of whom as you noted have bad backs already).
Ceetar
1/7/2011-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
especially since it’s not guarentee that they’ll all put up Ace numbers, outside of Halladay anyway. Imagine if Hamels goes back to average and Oswalt’s back hurts? (not that Oswalt or even Lee had lights out numbers last year anyway)
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
Do any of you think that if the Phillies don’t win this season it will be because they traded Michael Taylor and Kyle Drabek away for Roy Halladay??
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
Nope, but do you think they have put too much resources into their pitching instead of hitting? Would Crawford for them been a better investment? Not Crawford specifically but you get the point.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
You get the best players available to you. Perhaps Crawford (or another big hitter) was not available to them.
Anyway, their offense should be just fine with Howard, Utley, Victorino, etc. And they may have an organizational philosophy that is not foreign to many teams that pitching wins.
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:03pm at 4:03 pm (UTC -4)
It does but they had pitching last year and did not win because of poor offense.
Personally if I were in their shoes I would have divided Lee’s money between a good RF, a solid mid rotation guy and another solid reliever.
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:04pm at 4:04 pm (UTC -4)
I think Stick brought this up, but in the Phillies WS year they had a much weaker staff than they have had since.
Ceetar
1/7/2011-4:10pm at 4:10 pm (UTC -4)
People step up. a lot of it’s luck. Well, if you’re Sandy Alderson, percentages. Obviously the percentages are greater when you have a good rotation, that someone’s going to give you a good start. in 2008 Hamels stepped up and had a great postseason.
But lots of people pitch great games. If they happen to in the playoffs, you get a lot of props for it. (and money, and get overrated, and big contracts, and people thinking you’re a better pitcher than you are and trying to put you in the Hall of Fame…)
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
Oh no. Not that one again. Running away.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
Your plan doesn’t even address their offense really. They had a good RFer last season when you say their offense cost them. And their top prospect — a unanimous top 10 MLB prospect by the way, is a RFer and is on the doorstep.
Anyway, the idea that they lost because of their offense is ridiculous. They scored the second most runs in the NL last season. They won the division easily. The postseason is a crap shoot based on a short series or three. They got to the post season with ease and scored plenty of runs in the process.
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:11pm at 4:11 pm (UTC -4)
However, what hurt them in the postseason was their offense. You can’t say that their biggest weakness last year was pitching.
My plan may not give them more offense than last year but it at least tries to make up for the loss of Werth. Depending on the LH Brown and the cast of bench guys to make up for Werth to ME is risky. Even with Lee.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-4:41pm at 4:41 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t blame the offense in a seven game sample.
Over 162 games only the Rockies scored more runs in the NL.
Anyway, if you can’t improve your offense, the next best thing to do is improve your defense.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
Really what you’re saying is that they need to acquire hitters they can guarantee will hit in a 7 game series in October. Reggie Jackson no longer plays and no one else fits that bill.
Scoring runs was not a problem for the Phils.
stickguy
1/7/2011-5:34pm at 5:34 pm (UTC -4)
overall they scored a lot, but they were pretty streaking with that last year. Quite a few stretches where the offense was MIA (and it was discussed quite a bit in the Philly media).
losing Werth is not going to help with that problem at all.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
not to mention if you trade Mejia for Garza you make it basically impossible to trade for any other SP in the next year and a half
stickguy
1/7/2011-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
not if a couple of the interesting young prospects take a step up and have big years. You can still trade position guys (though teams love pitching prospects!)
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
either way depleting the farm for a #2 SP at best is terrible management especially when your farm system’s #1 weakness is its lack of pitching in the upper levels. luckily Sandy and co. know what their doing.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
Oleo, I think we both know that if it was Mejia and some lower level guys Sandy would have been leading the charge.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
define “depleting the farm.”
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
True but their point is that if you trade for Garza you would not need another SP for the next 1.5 years.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-3:36pm at 3:36 pm (UTC -4)
or we can wait until we’re ready to compete and/or we have a deeper farm system before we go off trading our only pitching prospect with trade value and go after a better pitcher.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:37pm at 3:37 pm (UTC -4)
True but then again it’s not like Garza is a one year pitcher either. It really depended on who else they asked for in addition to Mejia (assuming they would) and how high Sandy valued Mejia.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
again I feel better SP will be available for that cost and since we have a year to play with, id rather wait then jump at the first guy available
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
Such as? Who do you think will be better than an under control for 3 years pitcher who has had under a 3.00 ERA for 5 years in the AL East that could be had for the same talent?
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
barely under 4. Yes he’s very consistent but he’s not once ever been great and if im giving up that much, i want a star pitcher.
TRS86
1/7/2011-7:09pm at 7:09 pm (UTC -4)
You don’t get many star pitchers under contract for 3 years.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not nitpicking you, so please don’t take it that way, but assuming your rotation is Santana, Garza, Pelfry, Niese, Dickey, with Gee in the fold, who do you need to trade for? Ok, Dickey breaks down. Or Niese can’t make the next step, or Pelfry yips out, or Santana doesn’t come back, those are all ifs that all teams deal with. What if all 600 lbs. of CC causes his knee to blow out? What is Grienke is found in the corner of a dugout, holding a blanket and sucking his thumb? What is Lincecum lights his hair on fire smoking a joint and he becomes human in his pitching (thus proving my samson theory on him). Rolling with Santana, Garza, Pelf Niese and Dickey would have me at a comfort level with the staff i’ve not had in a long long time.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
word.
just looking at lincecum brings sounds of Sublime to my ears: “I smoke two joints in the morning….”
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
because I want to see what I have in Pelf, Niese and Dickey before I lock my SP up for the next 2 years. I also believe that with or without Garza we are not making the playoffs and that a similar package would be able to net us a better player than Garza.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
Example.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
here are some of the players that will be FA in 2013:
Jered Weaver, Cole Hamels, Francisco Liriano, John Danks, Shaun Marcum, Chad Billingsley, Jonathan Sanchez, Jeremy Guthrie, Joe Saunders, and Anibal Sanchez.
now obviously most (if not all) of these guys might not become available but like every offseason, players become available. You just need to wait until the timing is right.
TRS86
1/7/2011-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
I would not expect many of those to come open and honestly not many are better than Garza.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
Just some i’m on the same wave length as you, my fellow met fan, which of the above is better than Garza? Not asking sarcastically, as I utilize a special sarcasm font for those posts.
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
Weaver, Liriano if healthy. Better question is who out of that group would be likely to be traded? Those are not your normal dumping teams.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-4:09pm at 4:09 pm (UTC -4)
they arent now but things change in a year. Who would have thought the Rays would be looking to trade Garza at this time last year???
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-4:08pm at 4:08 pm (UTC -4)
Weaver, Hamels, Liriano, Billingsley, Danks are currently better. J. Sanchez will be if he has another good season.
I would put Marcum and Guthrie on the same level as Garza and Anibal Sanchez and Joe Saunders below them.
for trades that happened in the last 6 months, I would also put Haren, Grienke, Lee, Oswalt above him.
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously undervaluing Garza to say that Marcum (injury concern yet to throw 200 innings in a season) and Guthrie, while solid had a completely rotten year in there too, are similar.
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
Think about how long some of those guys were under contract as well and what they cost. Think Houston would not have passed out with a Garza for Oswalt deal? Garza could have been the main piece in a trade for any of those players.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
sure i would prefer Garza to them but Garza is unarguably closer to Marcum and Guthrie than he is to Hamels, or Liriano.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
2013???
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:59pm at 3:59 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, that confused me too. By then, Harvey could be in the rotation.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
because they are a year away from free agency at this time next season so teams that arent looking to resigning them would start looking for possible trades.
either way a number of players will not maybe become available and its a gaurantee that there will be at least 2-3 guys that are controllable, young and have ERAs under 4 the past 2 seasons
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
2 seasons? Try 4.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-4:33pm at 4:33 pm (UTC -4)
4? thats pretty pessimistic.
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
Also, which one of those guys would be better than Garza AND could be had for a similar package?
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-3:56pm at 3:56 pm (UTC -4)
so you don’t want to acquire a young and effective #2 quality pitcher because you have 3 other starters? don’t you need 5?
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
At least 5. To have adequate depth in my mind, need 8. Another 3 stashed in the minors and/or long man type in the BP.
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
I really have to learn not to read some of these posts when I’m on the phone during a work telecon.
I almost laughed right out loud at the image of Lincey with his hair on fire.
‘Oh wow dude….do you smell something?’
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
hopefully you weren’t drinking something when that happened. I’ve ruined a couple keyboards that way. Stupid internet and it’s humor!
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
hahaha
Of topic:
I really need to get me one of these ‘I Survived’ tee shirts:
http://www.the7line.bigcartel.com/product/i-survived-v-2
TRS86
1/7/2011-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
Off topic? What the hell is the topic?
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
LOL….
Just read MCs post: ‘What is rotation as of today’?
Pretty funny stuff and the response were even more humorous.
The twitter question was ‘as of today’ and he’s got Young or Frances inked in saying with 81 games at Citi the rotation should be more than fine.
My follow up question would have been ‘Fine for what’?
Competing with Phillies rotation? Competiting for the WC? Finishing better than last year? Not finishing last?
Honestly, I rarely make predictions but to me, you especially can’t make any now. We have no idea right now what the rotation and BP is going to look like come opening day.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-4:30pm at 4:30 pm (UTC -4)
speakin of cerrone have u commented on his blog yet 4d?
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
Mr. NJ: I did on the original post he put up annotating the change in format. Something like ‘color me surprised’…
I think I posted one other comment as well in that thread.
I’m posting over there as ‘srt’ ’cause I’m using Disqus and I already had that login name created for MLBTR.
kistics
1/7/2011-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
Lincecum’s pretty hair and Wilson’s ‘the machine’ versus Garza and Mejia…
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
Leave it to 7 train to come up with this.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
[off topic0 we really should see if we can accommodate a shoutbox here.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-4:36pm at 4:36 pm (UTC -4)
According to Meet the Matts they say they have a “buddy” telling them Young is coming to the Mets. but that would make Olney’s tweet correct again and well that just can’t be. Then again it is MeettheMatts so maybe their “buddy” is wrong as well.
“BREAKING NEWS!!!
We just received a phone call from our guy that Chris Young is coming to the NY Metropolitans. Chris, who went to Princeton, told our guy’s buddy – who went to Princeton with him – that he is indeed joining the National League Club in Flushing, NY.”
http://meetthematts.com/2011/01/07/various-and-sundry-whatnots/
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
I’m a bit surprised that the Mets would spend money on both Capuano and Young unless Young is taking a deal similar to Capuano’s.
Neither of these guys are a lock to pitch anything resembling a full season.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-5:05pm at 5:05 pm (UTC -4)
Capuano did pitch most of last season and did so rather effectively. Young on the other hand is a risk but one you have to take
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-5:11pm at 5:11 pm (UTC -4)
66 innings. And zero in 2008 and 2009.
Anyway, hard to believe you’re advocating risk when at the same time you’re unwilling to risk trading prospects who have provided zero major league success.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-5:13pm at 5:13 pm (UTC -4)
what risk? $1.5M? You call that risk?
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
He said you have to take a risk — and I have no idea what Young will be paid.
But given their current offseason spending budget, $1.5m is a risk — there’s not much room for error to improve the team right now.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-5:23pm at 5:23 pm (UTC -4)
I will disagree if Cap fails to start I don’t see the 1.5M preventing them from finding a replacement.
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-5:21pm at 5:21 pm (UTC -4)
Cap yes if you want to say 66 innings then that is correct but it’s how you view those 66 innings that makes it a worthwhile investment.
1st he made 4 starts in May last yr b4 being called up.
2nd once called up he pitched out of the pen for the most part except his last 7 appearances which were all starts to end the season.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-5:27pm at 5:27 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t have a problem with the Capuano signing whatsoever. I just wouldn’t pencil him in for 190 IP merely because he pitched 66 innings last season.
My surprise is that the Mets would spend money on two guys with such tenuous health for their rotation.
stickguy
1/7/2011-5:30pm at 5:30 pm (UTC -4)
that’s what you get when you are on a budget.
guys that have been and could again be good.
or guys that are pretty well locked in at mediocre, but might be more reliable at being that (Figgy say).
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-5:31pm at 5:31 pm (UTC -4)
I see I thought you had a problem with Cap. Im sorry. I agree I also wouldnt pencil him in for 190/ip as well.
Seems Cerrone is following the Young signing with Mets possibly buzz.
http://www.metsblog.com/2011/01/07/buzz-pointing-to-mets-signing-a-pitcher/
stickguy
1/7/2011-5:37pm at 5:37 pm (UTC -4)
it actually makes some sense to sign 2 cheaper injury recovery guys (if you can’t swing a more reliable option) on the relative cheap. Hopefully if they need a DL break, they will take turns, and can combine to equal 1 good SP!
while it would be wonderful to get 30/200 out of one solid guy, you can get the same effect with 15/100 out of 2!
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
So who do we actually like better: Young or Francis?
I’m not sure which one would be better….
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-5:00pm at 5:00 pm (UTC -4)
My vote is for Young. Velocity get’s my vote. And height!
kistics
1/7/2011-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
So are we saying that we should trade Mejia, Flores, etc for Garza? or Not?
If it was Mejia and couple no name prospects, I would do it in a heartbeat. But to give up your #1 and #2 prospect, I think you’d need Santana (in his prime) type of pitcher and extension (w/o all the injury
)
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
thats basically what im saying although ive been on my own. If im giving up that type of package, I want someone who’s gonna compete for Cy Youngs or at least be an all-star caliber pitcher
kistics
1/7/2011-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
I think Garza could be an AS caliber pitcher especially in NL, but he’s only under team’s control for 2 more seasons.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-4:46pm at 4:46 pm (UTC -4)
Control-able pitching is at a prime these days. So it’s going to cost something to get something.
Also, for point of reference, SF’s top 2 prospects last year were Posey and Bumgarden. You can’t throw out blanket statements saying “we can’t trade our #1 & #2 for a Garza type” when the Met’s #1 & #2 can’t hold a candlestick to what the Giants had. Pun on candlestick and the Giant intended.
kistics
1/7/2011-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
Understood on SF vs NY prospects. But the #1 and #2 prospects for the Mets are just as valuable as Posey and Bumgarden for the Giants.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
Really? Yes, the top prospects in an organization hold value to that specific organization, but to say that they have the same value is slightly off base. Slightly by about 2.3 miles.
kistics
1/7/2011-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
I meant “to that specific organization”.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-4:57pm at 4:57 pm (UTC -4)
I still think trading a #this or a #that to get a specific guy shouldn’t matter. I’ll stand alone on my little island thinking that if necessary.
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-5:05pm at 5:05 pm (UTC -4)
You’re not alone on the island. But if we’re the only two on the island don’t think that you can have your way with me.
There’s no universe in which Posey/Bumgarner = Joe Schmoe and John Doe merely because they are their respective teams’ top two prospects. If your top prospect stinks and someone wants him for something good, you trade him.
njstuckintx
1/7/2011-5:11pm at 5:11 pm (UTC -4)
I’m reminded of that Looney Tunes episode with Bugs Bunny and the 2 stranded guys. There one where he uses a cooked chicken like a puppet.
I need a beer. Been a long week. Obviously from my ramblings, my brain is shot.
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-4:56pm at 4:56 pm (UTC -4)
And go figure…just the year before the Giants GM was trying to trade Bumgarden but couldn’t get any takers for what he wanted. Their revised though on him was he was NOT going to pan out.
IDK about you guys but for a 21 year old, he looked damn fine to me in those playoffs.
stickguy
1/7/2011-4:48pm at 4:48 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, I said the same thing somewehre else in this rats nest, so great minds think alike!
of course, it doesn’t really matter what we think, and only partially what Sandy thinks, just what the Ray’s would have thought about that!
kistics
1/7/2011-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
You are incorrect sir. What we (the great minds) think here will dictate rest of the MLB as they are reading this comment section as we speak. I can almost hear the mouse clicking to refresh every 2 seconds.
oleosmirf
1/7/2011-6:09pm at 6:09 pm (UTC -4)
The 2011 Mets under Alderson are strictly committed to 1) not trading prospects and 2) not adding additional money to the 2012 payroll.
given those two self-imposed limitations, I dont see how they could do better than Capuano and Young.
TRS86
1/7/2011-7:05pm at 7:05 pm (UTC -4)
I am not sure either are entirely true. I think he is committed to not doing either unless the deal greatly benefits their future plans.
rustyjr
1/7/2011-6:16pm at 6:16 pm (UTC -4)
According to Meet the Matts young should sign by tonight
metsfan4decades
1/7/2011-7:23pm at 7:23 pm (UTC -4)
And nary a word on this rumored signing on MLBTR.
Hmmmm……
rustyjr
1/7/2011-7:32pm at 7:32 pm (UTC -4)
Btw check out my latest column I need all the input I can get
wannybackstra
1/7/2011-10:34pm at 10:34 pm (UTC -4)
if he doesnt sign tonight can we ridicule bloggers the same way we do columnists?
Mr North Jersey
1/7/2011-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
If you don’t I will consider you a hypocrite. lol
wannybackstra
1/8/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
stupid hack bloggers and their ‘friends” are never right.
stickguy
1/7/2011-10:51pm at 10:51 pm (UTC -4)
pretty easy shot when it is the Matts.