I came across an article written way back in September of 2009 by John Romano of the St Petersburg Times. It was titled “Baseball’s big-market teams catching up to low-market teams in intelligence”.
It talked about how small-revenue teams that have gotten around in different ways when competing with big market teams are now finding it harder and harder to compete. Here is some of the ways Romano explains that small-revenue teams got around the Big market teams.
Oakland did it for a while with on-base percentage. The Rays keyed their turnaround by emphasizing defense. But, even then, they were continually counting on some of the big-money teams to falter.
What really started to register with me was when he started to explain what he felt was what Big Market teams were doing that was making harder for small market teams to compete. Things like:
- Big market teams spending more aggressively in the draft
- Big market teams getting better at signing free agents based on future potential rather than past production
- Big market teams putting a higher premium on homegrown pitching
Now with Alderson here as the Mets GM one of the 1st things he said the day he was hired was that there was no reason for the Mets Minor league system to be in the middle of the pack and that the Mets being at a disadvantage as other teams go over slot while they didn’t was not something he expects to see happening anymore.
Can this be what Romano described as Big market teams spending more aggressively in the draft?
Now as we head into the last year of Castillo’s contract where we wound up paying for past performance rather than future potential. Can we expect Alderson to do better at signing future free agents basing it on future potential rather than past production?
Finally looking at the World Series Champions S.F. Giants core of homegrown pitchers can we expect Alderson to put a higher premium on homegrown pitching?
In the end will this new Mets era really be as Romano called it, another Big market team incorporating small market intelligence?
117 comments
metsfan1744
1/20/2011-7:07am at 7:07 am (UTC -4)
The Mets are an unintelligent franchise trying to incorporate subpar baseball understanding using limited funds.
TRS86
1/20/2011-7:49am at 7:49 am (UTC -4)
Love the Metsfan1744.
Wow I am almost in shock that you can talk. I thought it was a prerecorded message.
metsfan4decades
1/20/2011-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
“Love the Mets”
Ceetar
1/20/2011-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
if you google his name, he did talk before he went on the love the mets kick.
kingman 26
1/20/2011-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
Ah, now I finally get it!
I thought you were just a kid or something, now I guess you have made your under-the-bridge mission clear.
Love the Mets Love the Mets step right up and LOVE the Mets.
kistics
1/20/2011-8:39am at 8:39 am (UTC -4)
Thought you loved the Mets…. WTF?
kingman 26
1/20/2011-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
Let’s play Wheel of Fortune; buy a vowel:
T R _ L L
kistics
1/20/2011-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
hmm… an I?
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Go Fish. (the game, not the team)
kingman 26
1/20/2011-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Ouch!
metsfan4decades
1/20/2011-8:13am at 8:13 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think any big market team will ever operate quite like the small market teams. Small market teams will almost constantly have turnovers. As soon as their prospects come up, do well and head towards FA, they’ll flip them for more prospects. They have to draft well because they probably feel it’s the only shot they’ve got.
IMO, the Mets problem has been spending money foolishly – or at least unintelligently. I believe the new FO is trying to turn that around. It remains to be seen how well they’ll do that. Here’s hoping it’s sooner rather than later.
rustyjr
1/20/2011-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
What ? Is there a boycott on the infamy ? Lol
Ceetar
1/20/2011-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
geeze, share some of the attention rusty!
you bugged all teh beat writer’s phones so you could steal their scoops right?
rustyjr
1/20/2011-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
I just got you banned from all mets get togethers lol
Ceetar
1/20/2011-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
Big Market teams will alw ays have the advantage, and baseball has done nothign to curb that.
The recession is part of this, but spending was getting out of control anyway and the big teams were realizing that they were throwing a lot of money away. So they’re being smarter about it.
The small market teams are driven by a need to find a competitive advantage that isn’t money, but just like all their prospects taht develop into stars, the big money teams will take that as soon as they can get their hands on it. It’s not just the players. Did Ricciardi or DePodesta stay in Oakland? no. they moved on. Billy Beane bucked the trend, as he often does, but the Red Sox tried to buy him away from Oakland too, and he actually agreed before backing out.
I don’t think the Mets have been terrible in the last decade, but they’re where the Yankees were in ’07ish. They’d reached a saturation point where their money was going to a lot of crap and junk and wasted space and injury. The Yankees may not have done more than spend on the draft a bit to create prospects to trade, and let some high price guys expire so they had money to spend, but either eway, the mets apparantly reached their saturation point with some big deals being injured and less effective. They chose to go smarter rather than wait it out.
Ceetar
1/20/2011-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
My point being they certainly could’ve kept Omar on and told him to do nothing. With all the money coming off the books and the existing players, anyone could sign the equilvilant of CC, AJ and Tex and go to the World Series.
fongy2
1/20/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Not “anyone”…….Omar proved that in his 6yrs here.
Sure, Omar could write checks BUT his inability to find the right
secondary players AND his inability to draft/sign young kids
who’d be able to help certain aging veterans cost him his job.
Thats what happens though, when you bring in and place your
home-boys in important organizational positions instead of hiring
the most qualified….. You eventually fail…….And he did!
kingman 26
1/20/2011-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
Well, with the amount of money spent and the amount of “star” players brought in, the last decade looks pretty awful.
1 first place
2 second places
2 third places
3 fourth places
2 fifth places
One postseason appearance and one playoff series win.
Terrible? I suppose that term is for the Pirates, Orioles, and Royals.
But really bad and disappointing? Absolutely, by any reasonable standard.
In 2007 the Yanks were in a dramatically different spot than the Mets.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
This is where the Slotting system in the draft is meant to save the small market clubs. If clubs say slotting be damned, then you’ll start to see teams of larger revenues start taking away from the one of the few (if only) tools the small market teams had to remain competitive. With Alderson already stating they’d be more aggressive in the draft (and which I’m sure others will follow suit, considering many don’t adhere to the slotting as it is), I think it is only going to be a matter of time before some sort of rookie pay scale will be instituted on some level. I’ve been wrong before (not knowing Ricky Martin played for the other team, thinking Lady Gaga was actually good looking for a minute, knowing for sure that Roberto Alomar signing would vault the Mets to greatness, etc…), but I think that it’s just a matter of time before everyone gives a big middle finger to the slotting system and something drastic will have to be done.
Ceetar
1/20/2011-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
make it a hard slot, and allow trading of draft picks.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
I’d like to see trading of draft picks. Would bring a nice wrinkle in the trading scheme of things.
fongy2
1/20/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
What exactly is Mayor Moneybags’ association with The Jets???
………….And why is he making a bet with the Mayor of The Steel City?
Pittsburgh, minus the 3 and the under……….23-13 and on to Dallas
for Title number Seven!!!!!
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
w00t w00t!
fongy2
1/20/2011-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Here we go Steelers!…..Here we go!
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
the whole Mets turning small market is completely overblown by everyone. The fact that most Mets fans I see are afraid the Mets will get outbid for Reyes is pretty scary in itself.
TRS86
1/20/2011-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
True, it’s not about being outbid. If Sandy wants someone I am sure he will do what it takes. Question is if he believes that player is worth that amount to the franchise. If he does not then the money will not flow.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
the fact is Mets fans claim Sandy wont sign Reyes to a long-term deal b/c of this belief that he is against it.
signing a 27 year old, homegrown SS, coming off a career season to a 6-7 year deal is a no-brainer. Sure he will obviously not be as good in the final year or two but having a great farm system and a 140 mil payroll allows you to do this with…
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
My thing is where do they get the notion that he will not? He has never said he would not. He has said he does not want to but may have to adjust according to the market. What GM and franchise would NOT say that? Even the Yankees would say they do not WANT to go 7 years.
fongy2
1/20/2011-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
What???…..Oleo, there’s no question, The mets are one of the
largest of large market teams. However, they do at times, including lately behave like a small market club. If Reyes is Reyes the first couple months of the season and there is no new contract, this
will be confirmed. It will also give a clear signal just how bad the Wilpon’s finances are. If Reyes is his old self and our FO plays games with him by either no talkin’ contract or low-ballin’ him, we’ll
know. No matter what effect Bernie madoff had, this team has a brand new stadium and a new sports network. In addition, they’ve got MLB money rolling in from the internet. There’s no excuse.
metsfan4decades
1/20/2011-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I read yesterday where Reyes stated he won’t talk extension during the season. So they either do the extension during ST, or they’re out of luck.
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
I think I do not want to and I will not are two different things. Of course Reyes wants to put pressure as do the Mets.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I’m really surprised that even doing their due diligence they have not engaged Reyes in conversations about an extension. I’m not talking about offering contracts at this point, but even going through the political mumbo/jumbo of “Jose, we think you are a solid player, what are your thoughts on an extension, what are you looking for, blah blah”. A little ego stroking may allow the Mets to simply match the best offer at the time of contract signing and he’ll lean towards the Mets vs. another.
Ceetar
1/20/2011-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
They will. 2011 was a more immediate problem. Only so much he could get done at once.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
in my opinion it they are not spending money for 3 reasons.
1) the Wilpons refusal to have a payroll above 150 mil (we’ll see if it changes should the Mets become consistent contenders)
2) the weak free agent market
3) the current roster having major question marks and a farm system that lacks MLB ready pitching and depth.
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
2 and 3 are IMO much more than 1. The last 2 FA markets have been weak and the Mets have been burned by giving out large contracts for a while now. Better to see what we have and decide what we need to do moving forward. Including Reyes.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
the Mets could certainly have improved the 2011 team and not affected the 2012 payroll by simply spending 6-8 mil more. I will concede though that giving an 80 win team an extra 1-3 more wins is lost money in the long run but I can see why many fans are upset
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Who? Who did you want them to spend that 6-8 million on that would have given a better bet to improve the team while not hindering the development of other players?
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
PLEASE don’t say Garland. He was never coming to NY>
kingman 26
1/20/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know TRS….someone at FWICG.com was SURE that if Sandy just offered him twice the Dodgers’ offer and talked him into it, he would now be a Met.
Oh well, MANYMANNYMANNY is still available…
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Garland! oh wait…
How about Pavano? He has found out that he is Samson and his strength comes from his ‘Stache. Or Soriano (granted his contract was an extreme).
Or you can even go and say, 3 million extra on 1 player, 3 million on another. Adding Penny vs. Young. Something along those lines.
There has to be a way to determine what the team makes in concessions and such per game. To me, if they are selling out or close to it, they are making $X per home game. The more money is spent to get those extra few wins, thus keeping the team in the hunt longer keeps people coming to the stadium, thus increasing revenues. Maybe I’m delving too deep into it on this. I should get back to work.
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
1st thing. What evidence do we have that spending more money on Penny instead of Young and or Cap would have lead to more wins? If anything think how poorly Penny has pitched against us.
2nd thing. Were you willing to give Pavano 3 years and 24M? To get him to leave the Twins that’s what it most likely would have taken. Soriano that was just ridiculous.
Again, I think if a player no doubt would have helped the Mets and could have been had for a reasonable rate then the budget might have expanded.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
since you wont allow Garland. they could have improved their bullpen with Rauch, Dotel, Beimel instead of a guy on a minor league deal or a position player like Podsednik instead of Harris.
I agree a team in our position it wont make much of a difference but my question is would we have made those moves instead were we legit contenders.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
I am just not sure any of those players were worth what they received or will receive as opposed to what we got. Rauch maybe but Dotel and Beimel? Are we sure that is not just spending for the sake of spending?
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Difference in WAR for Beimel and Byrdak is .2. How much more is that .2 worth?
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
i agree Oleo.
And TRS, you are right in that you never know until they pitch, but based on past performances and health issues, Paying more (AKA the Rauch/Dotel/Beimel avenue) would have a higher propensity to being better performance wise than the guys offered on minor league deals.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
a guy like Dotel or Rauch would be our 8th inning guy. Are they worth 3 mil more than someone else maybe, maybe not but I do know that those two are more reliable then anyone else we have
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Again how much more? Biemel over Byrdak produces .2 more in WAR.
Rauch without saves gets you around a .7 WAR. Acosta produced a .3 WAR last year. Carrasco produced a .5 WAR and is more versatile.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Dotel’s WAR was .1 last season.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Is WAR affected by what team they are on currently? Meaning, WAR is based specifically on stats, right, not reflective of Stats factored in to how the team did, correct?
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Based on my impression it is completely neutral even down to the park they play and competition they face.
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Alot of Sabermetric stats are very useful…..WAR isn’t
one of them…….Frankly, it’s just dumb.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
I used to think that but the more I have studied it I disagree. It’s not the end all be all but it does do a good job of allowing you to compare players total production to each other. Especially like kind. I don’t think using it to compare SP to SS would be good but RP to RP? I think it’s valuable.
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
It leaves out the most important factor, the human
element. What does a player mean to his team,
either as a main guy or role player? Does his presence help someone else either in their role on the
field or even off it? Can one really “factor in the ballpark”???….Really??…What about the players comfort in where he’s playing?…And how ’bout, for
who he’s playing?….Examples of the above, Wade Boggs, Vince Coleman, Ed Whitson, Nelson and Stanton, the last two while with the yanks.
Wade Boggs and Coleman weren’t significantly better
players b/c of their parks? How much did playing in NYC effect Whitson? Didn’t knowing you have Mariano behind you in the 8th and 9th greatly help
Nelson and Stanton every time they came into a gm??
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Of course no stat can do that. BA and ERA can’t do that either but should we throw them out as well? Again in terms of using stats to compare one player to another I think it’s useful. Now when you start using it to say this player will actually give you 2 more wins than someone else I think it breaks down. Using it as a comparison tool though to me is very valuable.
kingman 26
1/20/2011-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I still say the team is in a very difficult and unique spot, with almost the entire starting team made up of players returning form injuries, unproven kids, and guys like Pagan and Dickey, who could go either way.
They just have to evaluate what this team is.
It could be anywhere from a contender to another 4th place squad.
Alderson’s patience is the way to go.
Now, if we are tied for 1st in July and there are no moves made, THEN bring on the non-spending talk.
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, and even then I would not be opposed to the Phillies of years ago. Be in the race but still trade Abreu, I mean Beltran.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
especially if Duda, Kirk, Martinez or one of our bench players seems ready to start.
kingman 26
1/20/2011-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Agreed!! Absolutely!
TRS86
1/20/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
To me it’s amazing how much those 2 players have in common. Players that have been both overrated and underrated at the same time.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
to me Beltran (when healthy) is/was a better player simply b/c he played CF and a replacement for the corner OF is much easier to find.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
True but blindly looking I am going to say Abreu has been much more consistent offensively over the years.
kistics
1/20/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Now that Young signing is official, if you look at how much they’ve spent this offseason, I’m not sure if you can call the Mets spending like the Pirates.
Capuano $1.5M upto $4.5M
Young $1.5M upto $4.5M
Paulino $1.35M
Carasco $1.2M
Tank $600k
If all healthy, we’re looking at offseason spending of close to $12M. And that’s not including another LOOGY signing that we’re hearing about. They didn’t spend like the BoSox, but that’s no Pirates spending either.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
If healthy, yes. But sunk cost is almost right on par with the 5 mil or so that they had slotted (or reported to be slotted) to be spent on FAs.
kistics
1/20/2011-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
That is true. But I also think when the team budgets their finances, they have to look at the max scenario. And that max scenario is +$12M for 2011.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
I would think if they reach their maxes in incentives, they’ll basically be paying for themselves with the added benefits they provided. If they hit all their incentives, the Mets are in the wildcard.
kistics
1/20/2011-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. That would be nice.
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
And THERE is your Winner, folks!!!!
Took a Steeler fan to see the obvious!
If Young and Capuano stay healthy and have the best seasons of their careers, along with just about everything
else going very well, this team has a real chance to……Wait
…….Here it is……….”Play meaningful games in September”.
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
LOL!…..I just LOVE the optimisim!…..
kistics
1/20/2011-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
I love the Mets
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
And we Love you for Loving the Mets!
kistics
1/20/2011-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
No we love YOU!
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Oh, I know it!………..What’s NOT to love???
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
I have no problems with their offseason at all, im just saying that had the Wilpons been willing to raise the payroll slightly, there were other moves to make that could in no way hurt us for 2012 but made us a better team in 2011
I just hate the idea that a player making 3 mil over 1 year is considered too expensive. If you think the player making 1 mil is just as good then obviously go the cheaper route but while you can make a legit claim that Buchholz at 800K is going to be just as good if not better than Jon Rauch at 3.75 mil, I cant accept that Willie Harris at 800K is just as good as Scott Podsednik at 2 mil
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
agreed!
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, except Podsednik wouldn’t really have a role with us.
We kinda have a very well paid LFer already.
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
well obviously not as a starter but he can play CF competently and has experience in RF. my issue is what happens if/when one of OF needs to go on the DL.
relying on Nick Evans or Lucas Duda is not the way to go if you are trying to compete for the playoffs
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
.262 .313 .336 .648 with the Dodgers last year.
Again, why do you think he has not signed yet?
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
should we discount his numbers as a Royal? but either way his production last season is worth 2 mil as insurance for Beltran, Bay and Pagan
TRS86
1/20/2011-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Should we discount his numbers as a Dodger?
Again, why do you think he has not signed yet?
kistics
1/20/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I understand what you are saying and it’s a valid point. But at this point the Mets are sticking to their guns whether it’s Rauch or no Rauch.
And we all know why they are doing this. It’s not because Wilpons are cheap or Sandy is afraid to spend money. But the business is losing money. You all saw what the stadium attendance was like. With the new ballpark, they were obviously losing money with so few crowd every game. No matter what the reason is, they are losing money and only way to turn it around is to be smart with your spending and make the right decisions. Is Sandy & co making right decisions? We shall find out.
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Yeah….Losing tends to keep the fans away and have them lose interest. Funny how that works………..
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
While true you can spend money and reverse that trend IF you spend money on the right players and those players lead to significantly more wins. However, guys like Rauch, Dotel, and Beimel don’t do that.
kistics
1/20/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
I completely agree that you spend money to make money. But that’s if you spend money in RIGHT ways. And I think that’s what Sandy & co are trying to do. Some of us may not agree with his approach, but I think his approach have been much more smart so far than what Omar has done.
More than anything, Sandy & co seems to have a plan and they are sticking to it. For me, Omar was just filling the holes needed in a reactive way which just doesn’t cut it in MLB.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. I was not disagreeing with what you had said. Just making the point that if there had been players that fit and would have drastically improved the Mets chances of winning I think the budget would have been expanded.
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Likely true!….However guys like Carrasco, Capuano, Tankersley, Bucholz and Young don’t either.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Low risk guys that can provide benefit at minimal cost. Again, Sandy is looking for value.
Again, how much more value does a guy like Rauch have over a guy like Carrasco?
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
but how much more value does he have over the last man in the bullpen b/c the Mets should theoretically be able to afford 1 year 3 mil
TRS86
1/20/2011-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Who is that last guy? Tank if he makes it? Again does Rauch even give you one more win over the course of the season? How many more wins would he have to give you to be worth the extra 3M?
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I still just disagree with this notion. To me the players you are mentioning either got paid way too much or in most cases no better if only slightly in terms of WAR than what we have.
Podsednik was looking for way more AB’s than we could give. Harris may not even make the team. By the way Podsednik’s WAR last year was .4. Harris’s was 0 last year but was 1.0 the year before.
To me it appears that Sandy was looking for value this off-season more than he was concerned about the overall amount. A guy like Rauch would be nice but at .7 WAR is he worth 3.25M regardless of budget?
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Most imortant is the fact that Podsednik plays one position,
not great at it either AND the one position on the field where
at times, in emergency, you can hide a players glove.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
At this point in the year, even though I know the Mets are busy, there is a reason that a player is still unsigned. Those reasons vary but there is still a reason.
kistics
1/20/2011-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
I partly agree with your assessment, but I don’t think you should value a player strictly on WAR. Rauch may not have the WAR that represents $3.25M, but there maybe other factors that could justify the $3.25M.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
What other factors could make him worth 3.25M to the Mets?
kistics
1/20/2011-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
worth to the Mets? I don’t know about his worth to the Mets. Probably much less than $3.25M. But I was talking more specifically about his worth in the FA Market.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
But that was not Oleo’s point. He was saying that guys like Rauch could have been had if they were willing to spend more money and those guys would have given the Mets more wins. My point is are we sure and if so how many? I can’t say that Rauch over Carrasco would give us any more wins.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Jersey Sales!
oleosmirf
1/20/2011-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
how about his ability to close?
TRS86
1/20/2011-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
What value does that have to the Mets. It’s not like it’s a Soriano or even Fuentes situation. He would not be getting save opportunities with the Mets which is why his value was more to the team he signed with.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Also point on Beimel is that the Mets made him an offer. According to MLBTR several teams have. However, it appears that the Mets and those other teams don’t value him as much as he values himself. Happens to him every year.
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
“The market for Beimel has been very quiet this offseason, but that is nothing new. The 33-year-old lefty hasn’t signed a contract before January since the 2005-2006 offseason, and in each of the last two winters he’s had to wait until March to find a job”
Last year he waited until March 23rd and had to take a minor league deal. Again how is this guy an example of how the Mets should spend more money?
Doesn’t this say something about Beimel?
fongy2
1/20/2011-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, it says that everyone now knows what we have for years,
Beimel is VERY overrated!
TRS86
1/20/2011-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Hey, I need a damn like button.
If you look at Byrdak’s stats vs LH they are actually as good or better than Joe Blow.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Barring the +2 walks per 9.
stickguy
1/20/2011-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
but he doesn’t give up hits.
njstuckintx
1/20/2011-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
aren’t they one in the same?
TRS86
1/20/2011-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Walks and hits? Uh…. NO.
TRS86
1/20/2011-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
I said vs LH. Are you sure that Byrdak’s WHIP vs LH is that much different than Beimel? Last year Byrdak walked 7 LH batters in 85 PA. Beimel walked 7 in 95 PA.
Byrdak gave up 16 hits and Beimel gave up 21. Both gave up 8 extra base hits but 6 of Byrdak’s were doubles while Beimel gave up more HR and triples.
Again, looking at their stats they are very similar to each other.
stickguy
1/20/2011-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
make Disqus work, and you can have all the damned liking you can handle.
fongy2
1/20/2011-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
Nice one…..”Joe Blow”……Beimel’s (and his Agent’s) problem
is that they see what a Lefty specialist like Feliciano got
and convince themselves , hey i should be able to get 2or3
yrs and 10,12 mil from someone……Problem is Feliciano was
overpaid AND Beimel hasn’t been Feliciano. Not as good against Lefties(which IS the job), and hasn’t played in high pressure situations. The Yanks and other teams can look at Feliciano and think ” this guy more than held his own against
the likes of Utley and Howard the past decade”, “He should
be O.K. facing Crawford and Big Papi in the 7th or 8th of
a big game in Fenway……..There’s nothing on Beimel’s Resume which suggests that he could do the same.
In the end it’s as simple as that.
stickguy
1/20/2011-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
that, and most teams don’t tend to oerpay for lower tier guys like the yankees do!
stickguy
1/20/2011-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
as to the topic, after the last few years of seemingly no intelligence, and small amount will be a bonus for the team!
seriously though, I say the answer is yes, since it really means putting some trust in sabermetrics and adanced stats, while also trying to maximize the benefit of having more money (IOW, spend your money smarter).
and recognizing what you can, and can’t, get easily on the open market is a big part of that. Strong young pitching is something that you can’t buy, so you have to grow it. Top quality prospects are extremely valuable, so spend on them when you can. And you can always buy a bat if you are short one.
I would put locking up your young core early in this catagory too, although that is yet to be seen (reyes).
metsfan4decades
1/20/2011-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
Rubin has a snippet up from Jeff Wilpon said during yesterday’s event that had him pared with Dickey, Pelf, Parnell and Gee putting out car fires:
Chief operating officer Jeff Wilpon noted that the Mets will spend roughly $145 million on 2011 payroll in spite of the conservative winter.
“I don’t think they realize the payrolll is up in the $145 [million] or better range,” Wilpon said about casual observers. “I don’t think people realize that. Unfortunately, we were somewhat hamstrung by what had happened before. Sandy [Alderson]‘s plan was to go and deal with it this year and make sure we have tremendous flexibility next year.”
**********************************************
First of all, who is ‘they’? I think most Met fans are aware of that ballpark figure. That’s probably the main complaint. For a team that has that kind of payroll expended we should have had better talent.
And it’s not just about the payroll on the big club either. It’s about the draft, the development of those minor leaguers, etc. What kind of price can you put on that? While Omar might have done an O.K. job with some of these signings, as we’re currently watching a few on the club now such as Niese, Pelf, Ike….we certainly don’t have the amount or type of good prospects to participate in trades. So spending 145 million on the big league payroll doesn’t tell the whole picture, Jeff……
metsfan4decades
1/20/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Jeeze….should have read either:
‘show the whole picture’
or
‘tell the whole story’.
Sometimes I wonder if Jeff shouldn’t just keep his mouth shut when it comes to the media.
TRS86
1/20/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
What was the context it was said in I wonder. I wonder if he is saying that to the blind fan that accuses the Wilpons of being cheap.
metsfan4decades
1/20/2011-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I really don’t know what question was asked for him to come back with a reply like that.
Just smacks of him being defensive though. He could have just said something along the lines of ‘with our new FO, we’re looking to improve and be competitive for some years to come’ – or some such rhetoric…..
Mr North Jersey
1/20/2011-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
They are “casual observers” I believe.
Next question (I am way ahead of you)
Who are these “casual observers”?
metsfan4decades
1/20/2011-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
LOL…maybe I read too many blogs but most posters on Met blogs seem to know what the ballpark Met payroll figure is. Granted, some are still calling the Wilpons cheap saying in NY, the sky should be the limit. I think he has the Mets confused with that other NY baseball team….