"The original " Nails !!!"
Okay here we are ten players down forty more to go. Today’s featured Met who comes in at number forty on the Top fifty Mets of all time countdown is probably one of the most firey personalities to ever squat behind a plate at Shea Stadium. Thats right I am talking about John Stearns !
The Mets acquired Stearns during the winter of ’74. The Mets gave up fan favorite, reliever, Tug McGraw as well as mediocre third baseman, Don Hahn and outfielder Dave Schneck for Stearns , outfielder, Del Usner and pitcher Mac Scarce.
Stearns saw his first season as a Met ( 1975) as the backup catcher behind veteran Jerry Grote. There Stearns learned from veteran Grote, who had been the Mets’ regular catcher since 1966. As Grote’s backup, Stearns didn’t see much playing time and posted a batting average of just .189 .
1976 was not a good season for Stearns. In limited time he once again hit poorly and was sent down and replaced by Ron Hodges. Stearns fixed his flaws while at the Mets AAA affiliate in Tidewater, and was brought back to the majors as a September call up. He had 18 hits in his first 13 games from being recalled from the minors. He even had seven hits in two games, Stearns was made the everyday catcher for the rest of the season, usurping Grote.
During the ’76 season, John was declared the Mets everyday catcher with both Grote and Hodges serving as backups. John was named the sole Mets player to the All Star Team that July. he would make his appearance catching in the bottom of the ninth. On August 31, 1977, the end of an era occurred when the Mets traded Grote to the Los Angeles Dodgers for two players to be named later.
One of the funnier moments of that horrible ’77 season was when Stearns became livid at Atlanta Braves mascot, Chief Noc-A-Homa, chasing him like a wild man off the field. Us Mets fans warmed up to Stearns very quickly. We loved his take no prisoners approach in the field as well as at the plate. A good example of this is when on a hot June night in ’78 , Stearns broke Pittsburgh Pirates player, Dave Parker’s cheek bone. Parker ( who had a penchant for running over catchers) tried to do the same with Stearns, but John wasn’t having any of that. During that next series against the Phillies, Phillies players thanked Stearns for standing up to Parker.
In 1979 Stearns would be selected to his second All-Star Game, but he would not play. That season , Stearns would also begin playing third base and a little outfield as well as spending most his time behind the plate.
In ’1980, Stearns was selected to his third All-Star Game, and grounded out in his only at bat inthe fifth inning. Stearns season would end that July when he would break his finger on a foul tip.
That injury would be the start of the wear and tear of John’s body. All those years of catching and brawling finally were starting to take it’s toll on Stearns.
In 1982 Stearns made his fourth All-Star Game. But by August he began suffering the effects of elbow tendinitis. He would end up on the disabled list and only made three pinch running appearances the rest of the season.
In 1983 Stearns would barely play because of his elbow tendinitis and was used sparingly as a pinch hitter.
He once again saw very little playing time in ’84, he spent some time with triple A Tidewater and was finally called up that September when he was finally well enough to play , but even then playing time was sporadic at best.
That winter the Mets would obtain Gary Carter from the Expos which would leave Stearns services obsolete. Stears would attempt to make a comeback with the Cincinnati Reds that next season , but he couldn’t make the club out of spring training. He promptly retired.
later on John would make his return to the Mets as a third base coach under Bobby Valentine. He made perhaps one of the best Mets rallying cries ever after a Piazza home run he yelled ” THE MONSTER IS OUTTA THE CAGE !!!”
John is currently a scout for the Mariners organization.
Tomorrow we will unveil number 39 – a player who was one of the most odd ball players to ever play for the Mets.
And with that said… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets alumni celebrating birthdays today include :
Mets outfielder from ’01-’03, Tsuyoshi Shinjo is 39 today (1972) . Shinjo was a very colorful player during his tenure with the Mets. He often dyed his hair red or orange and was very capable in both the field as well as at the plate. It could be said that he was the best Japanese hitter the Mets have ever had.
New York Mets selected outfielder, Ken Singleton in first round (third pick overall) of free agent draft on January 28, 1967. Singleton was a highly touted outfield prospect who later would be traded to the Expos for fan favorite , Rusty Staub. Ken had a long prosperous career with both the Expos and the Baltimore Orioles.
New York Mets signed free agent outfielder, Benny Ayala on January 28, 1971. I think the only thing Benny will ever be known for is that he is the uncle of former Met Luis Ayala.
Tampa Bay Devil Rays signed middle reliever, Tom Martin of the New York Mets as a free agent on January 28, 2002.
New York Mets signed free agent infielder,Todd Zeile of the Montreal Expos on January 28, 2004. It is common knowledge that I didn’t like the Mets signing the first time, but I hated it even more the second time around.
New York Mets signed free agent middle reliever, Mike Matthews on January 28, 2005. Matthews would appear in only six games that season, posting a record of 1-0 with a astronomical ERA of 10.80.
Houston Astros signed reserve outfielder, David Newhan of the New York Mets as a free agent on January 28, 2008. I think it was safe to say that Newhan was the worst offensive player on the Mets during the ’08 season.
And while you scramble trying to find a open Superbowl Box pool, just remember that there are only 63 more days until the Mets open the 2011 season against the Florida Marlins in Miami and just 70 more days until the Mets 2011 home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn made a army of snowmen which he has named his “Mo Men” in his backyard – he is planning to over throw the world with said Mo Men – I personally think he should be sent to Creedmoor.
146 comments
kingman 26
1/28/2011-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
Excellent choice!
Stearns also was a tough defensive back for the U of Colorado and was drafted by the NFL.
Damn, only 39 to go!
Ceetar
1/28/2011-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
If they release Ollie or Castillo before their places in this top 50 list..do we skip them?
rustyjr
1/28/2011-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
Well seeing that they came out at number 1&2 respectively – it could cause a problem
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
They would still be Mets, so no, not at all. We could use the moment for a symbolic funeral. We can even light their baseball cards on fire to symbolize the Nordic traditions of cremation. Valhalla here they come!
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Rusty, as always, a wonderful series. Maybe the 25 most hated mets as the next series?
rustyjr
1/28/2011-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Not a easy chore
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
It’s not all that bad. Jim Fergosi, Ollie, and then everyone from the early 90′s.
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Why does every Twit that Ruben’s throwing out there seems like he’s slamming the Mets? What is going to write about when they are good?
rustyjr
1/28/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I have met Adam personally – nice guy – I think we misread his columns since he outer Tony B
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Maybe he just needs to adjust his font.
Ceetar
1/28/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
He’ll fine a way. “This’ll never last” “That injury was mismanged!” Or he’ll just go generic and talk about guys like Heath Bell and others that have success elsewhere and ignore the Mets in first place.
stickguy
1/28/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
he will be like the rest of the hypocrites. if they pull off another 2006ish run, once it is clear that they are actually in the playoffs he will jump all over the bandwagon, and pretend that he was driving it all along.
actually, I can’t wait to see the reverse in action when the yankees stumble and bumble along this year and never put it together. OK, that might just be a dream, but I want the same for the Phils.
although living down here, I can 100% guarantee that if the Phils are not doing great by mid season, the “fans” will be calling for Amaro’s head for letting their key RH bat go, and getting a pitcher instead when the rotation was already fine!
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I read the noon chat Rubin did yesterday – where he takes questions from fans.
He’s 100% sure the Mets aren’t going anywhere this year.
Everyone has already penciled in the Phillies to win the division.
Ceetar
1/28/2011-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
penciled? Rubin and many others have chiseled it in stone.
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Bah….that includes their fan base, who are already discussing their post season rotation.
stickguy
1/28/2011-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
I hate phillies fans.
Good thing they are all also Eagles fans (and most of them consider the iggles to be the “important” team), so they are all still mopey about that team flopping again.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
“Why does every Twit that Ruben’s throwing out there seems like he’s slamming the Mets?”
Because he is an obnoxious parasite, and was publicly called out for being one by Minaya, in Omar’s finest moment as a GM.
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
So, from Collin’s conversations, looks like Capuano to be in the Pen. That would be another Lefty, which would look to really put the pressure on Ollie to perform.
And that would have Gee in the Rotation.
Pelf, Niese, Dickey, Young, Gee. Not awe inspiring, but could be serviceable.
stickguy
1/28/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Hmm, I hope that capuano gets a look for the rotation. I think he is better suited right now (he was even pitching relatively deep into games the end of last season), and it leaves Gee getting work as the #6 man on the depth chart.
In september, capu got put back in the rotation, and for his first 5 starts, he averaged over 6 innings per start, with a 2.37 era. So he certainly looked like he was feeling OK! Only went 3.2 though on the last day of the season.
what is capuano going to be instead, a loogy? set up man? mop up guy?
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I hope he’s rotation bound as well, but they said unless he’s 100%, he’ll not be in the rotation. Which is silly to me, and as you mentioned, the dude was in the rotation at the end of last year. I’m entering… The Confusion Zone…
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Well, since he appeared to be 100% healthy when he pitched last Sep., shouldn’t be a problem then. Not unless he has some setback in ST.
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
What was that SP motto last year? Prevent and Heal? Bandage and Stretching? Flexibility and Ice Packs?
stickguy
1/28/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
shot and a beer?
darknova306
1/28/2011-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
At this point, that’s the fanbase’s motto.
saltygary
1/28/2011-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
I imagine Cap will go to the pen unless Young has a setback. They can always put him in a long relief role to get strength. Its impossible for any team to keep a set starting 5, Cap will get his chance.
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I do like that there is flexibility with Cap, but I’m not convinced Gee is ready for the big time. No better time to find out, I guess…
Or they can sign Duch to round out the All IR SP staff.
stickguy
1/28/2011-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
the guy was pitching 6 plus innings all the way through september (at least 5 games straight were we averaged over 6). I don’t think him needing to regain strength is really an issue.
and I like Tx. idea. If they are worried about it, sign Duch too. He is good, on the rare times he is actually on the mound!
stickguy
1/28/2011-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
stearns was one of my all time favorites. Loved the way he played. and we both kind of “grew up” with the mets together, since 75-76 was when I became hard core obsessive about the team.
then again, pepe manguel was another of my favorites, so what do I know!
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t have Stearns on my top 50 list. Probably because he was traded for Tug and since I didn’t like that trade, stuck in my mind he wasn’t very good the first couple of years we got him. I thought at the time we got the short end of the stick.
He did go on to have a few good years as a Met but still….they traded Tug McGraw to get him. Tug went on to pitch 10 more years for Philly.
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Did you see this tweet from Cerrone?
Trust me, you want to keep an eye on MetsBlog in the next few minutes…
*****************
What? He’s got a scoop he’s gonna report on?
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
The best news would be that he’s hanging up his keyboard.
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
LOL.
darknova306
1/28/2011-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Well, “keep an eye on MetsBlog” and “I’ll be breaking some big Mets news” are two very different things. I doubt it’ll be anything major. Hell, it could just be a big change to his website or something just as meaningless.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
Well, lo and behold, his news was pretty significant.
The Mets are considering — and they admit as much — selling off a share of the team to ensure adequate resources. They hint at this being a result of the Madoff situation.
stickguy
1/28/2011-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
well, the team is supposed to be self-sufficient, but it is still a source of income for the family. So if it is running in the red at the moment, that means any expected cash in pocket has to come from someplace else.
perfect storm of ugly for the Wilpons. Extra debt due to the new park, but attendance tanks at the same time they get dunned for Madoff money and the real estate market (their real business) goes into the crapper.
nice though that they can sell off a limited partner share (say 10%) and come up with a quick 50-100 mill of petty cash!
darknova306
1/28/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, sounding like the Madoff thing was more damaging to the Wilpons than they’ve been letting on.
stickguy
1/28/2011-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
well, even rich folk are going to feel the pinch if they have to come up with $50mill or so at one time.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I think it also may mean that the attendance and related revenue drop in 2010 was probably huge; ad rates for 2011 might have dropped significantly too after two straight rotten years.
darknova306
1/28/2011-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
Just making a quick glance at attendance numbers now. Drop from 2008 to 2009 was 22% and from 2009 to 2010 was another ~19%. Definitely non-trivial numbers. That had to hurt.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
The comments section here is beginning to become undesirable for participation. Perhaps it’s just that the offseason has been relatively uneventful or that the posts generating the comments have mostly — with the exception of this countdown — been reporting the non-news that’s been occurring.
But there’s only so much of this Adam Rubin is the devil drivel (by the way, I just visited http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/ and couldn’t find any negative reporting on the page — he didn’t even comment on the prospects lists that are very easy to spin negatively). And there’s only so much of Ceetar’s ignorance of reality that one could stand to discuss.
Here’s hoping business picks up once Spring Training begins.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Sorry buddy; probably literally the only issue you and I completely disagree about in the several years we have known each other on the web. Sorry it annoys you when I write anti-media stuff.
Definitely majorly respect your opinions at all times though; especially the rest of your comment here!
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. It’s going to be a long 18 days until pitchers and catchers.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
After this Sunday, it will be torturous….when football ends and the Nets suck, I count the minutes till spring training….
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
At least you all have hockey.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
We here on Long Island had a great first month of hockey season. But, as always, the focus turned to the draft by Christmas.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
Would gladly accept the Dallas Stars here on Long Island, by the way.
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
Houston has the Aeros, IHL hockey. Granted Gordie Howe played for them for a season so he could play with his sons, but other than that, it’s not quite the same. I miss me some Prudential Center.
And the Devs are right there with the Isles.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
The Devs will be good again long before the Isles. They are already playing better and have been without Parise all season (whom the Islanders failed to draft and turned into a franchise changing poor decision).
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
My dad was a big Isle’s fan. Still have his 1983(?) Stanely Cup final game on VHS. Funny to watch. Man oh man was that Oiler team loaded with talent.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Never been much into hockey.
stickguy
1/28/2011-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
isn’t the nets sucking a given?
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
Well, other than the two conference titles, six playoff appearances, and nine playoff series wins over the last decade, I guess yeah.
How have the Knicks done??
Oh yeah, ONE playoff appearance the last decade, when the Nets SWEPT them.
stickguy
1/28/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
I hate the NBA. Was just yanking your chain. But best as I can recall, the last time the Nets didn’t suck, the Sixers were also making noise in the playoffs, so it can’t be that recent.
hey, the Mets were in the NLCS in 2006. that still mean anything?
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Oops, forgot; thought you were a Knick fan!
Yeah, the Nets have been an abomination the last couple of year, no doubt about that.
But, we have a good new coach and should be much improved next year if we use all of our draft picks wisely.
And yeah, 2006 still means something.
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
I guess there’s only so much discussion we can all have on all things Mets during this off season.
We didn’t add any impact players, it’s all about the health of the current players and our rotation is what it is.
I’m so looking forward to the season starting.
stickguy
1/28/2011-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
I think ST should be fun. Seeing how the new SPs shake out, and watching an actual position battle free for all (2B) will be a treat.
when was the last time they came to camp with an actually unassigned spot on the field (not counting 5th starter or spare pen arms)?
Ceetar
1/28/2011-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
They’ve had an OF spot up for grabs pretty much perpetually.
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I should have clarified that – When I said ”season”, I meant ST. I try and catch all ST games on SNY. Plus they’ll be so much more written on a daily basis once ST begins.
Ceetar
1/28/2011-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
The ignorance will disappate if you leave, yes.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
You mean “dissipate.”
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best response EVER!!!
Mr North Jersey
1/28/2011-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Has there been anything Met related that you felt should of been posted here that you would of liked to have made comments on Wanny?
I apologize if we have failed at providing you with proper newsworthy material for you to participate in a more desirable way of commenting.
I wish there was something more eventful that you could seek your teeth into but like you said hopefully business picks up once Spring Training begins.
Again we apologize for the continued posting of what you perceive as “non news”.
TRS86
1/28/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Wow Wanny, sorry you feel that way. We will miss you while you are gone. Good luck.
Dang guys can’t we just get along and not call each other out for our various opinions? Is it really a big deal that Ceetar sees Ollie differently than we do? I know it seems ridiculous but what is great about this site is that you can post those opinions without fear of being ganged up on or called out.
Thus Wanny as much as I value your opinion, and you know I do, I am sorry you feel that way and hope that in the future we can better serve you.
Thanks,
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Stop being so sensitive you two. My complaint is more that the comment section has been the same old same old of “Rubin is a dick” and “the Mets problems are a figment of the imagination of ignorant naysayers.”
The fact is there hasn’t been anything newsworthy concerning the Mets and hopefully once there is, the same old same old would disappear.
Anyway, I thought several new writers were brought in to develop research/thought pieces rather than reactionary stuff.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
They were but just like most sites right now there’s not much out there to write about or research that has not already been done.
However, I have yet to read anyone on here call someone an “ignorant naysayers” for their “realistic” views on the Mets.
Again, what I am most proud of on this site is that you can be what seems blindly optimistic on this site and still feel comfortable voicing your opinion as well as blindly pessimistic. Of course the challenge is always backing up your comments with facts and we all struggle with that at times.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
“‘outside of CeetarWorld’ also known as ignorant fantasy world”
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
Missed that one sorry. I think he was just overreacting because he felt ganged up on while I also think that sometimes he brings it on himself.
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
FIRE SANDY !!
j/k
Mr North Jersey
1/28/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Mets to sell part of team. quick write it up so Wanny can comment.
stickguy
1/28/2011-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
he already did, up above.
metsfan4decades
1/28/2011-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
So…..Wilpons looking into bringing in financial partners for Sterling?
Interesting….
I don’t know what all the stir is about though.
Ceetar
1/28/2011-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
It’s just going to create more ignorant negative spin on things from fans and beat writers, when in actuality it’s Sterling news, not Mets news and has zero short term effect, and probably little if any long term effect.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
You are too much man.
Seriously.
It means the Wilpons’ finances are not nearly as strong as we had hoped.
It means there IS a real reason why this offseason was the first in forever where major payroll was not taken on.
It means the corporate structure cannot/will not continue to absorb shrinking revenue from the Met part of the corporation.
This is what it means outside of CeetarWorld.
stickguy
1/28/2011-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
read below.
and the reason for not adding a big piece is still likely that they had reached the upper limit of payroll, and nothing came off the books to free up spending money.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
And attendance and related spending and ad revenues are way down too….
Ceetar
1/28/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
“outside of CeetarWorld” also known as ignorant fantasy world
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Or the “real world.”
But this will disappate once the issues are settled.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
This part I disagree with. I don’t think if the Wilpons had an extra 10 billion in a closet they would have spent anymore money on this team than they did this off-season. Until the players they have start to perform then you are wasting money and making bad business decisions.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
You may be right; my opinion is that the true test will come if we are within 5 games of a playoff spot midseason—-will they take on payroll?
That will be when we see the answer.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
Possible, of course even then we are playing a guessing game because we will not know who was really out there, what the offers were or if Sandy actually believed they would make a difference.
I think the best test will be next off-season. Even then I think many Mets fans are in for a disappointment. Thinking that Sandy is going to go out and spend 50M in one offseason on long-term contracts is most likely a bad idea. I could see bringing back Reyes, adding a long-term SP and then filling in with one year deal again.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed.
But, if the team finishes poorly again and the young players do not show huge promise, the team simply will need to add payroll via trades and/or FA, if they really are totally committed to winning.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Even then you have to base it on what is out there and what is needed both short and long term.
Lets say Bay stinks again this year and no prospect is ready. Yet the only FA out there of significance is Jayson Werth (again obviously hypothetical). Do you spend all your resources on a guy that is clearly not worth it or do you fill in again with cheaper one year deals?
stickguy
1/28/2011-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
off season plan will always depend heavily on which, if any, young guys step up to take a job.
in theory, say Duda takes over in RF and does fine out there, while crushing the ball and winning ROY. And pagan has a very good season is CF. well, that eliminates the need to go out and get an expensive OF next off season.
conversely, if they both do nothing, and no other prospect makes the leap, they may have to go spend real $$ on an OF.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Right but as I said above even then it’s about who is out there in FA and through trade and how much they cost. Spending money because you have money is the old Met way.
stickguy
1/28/2011-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
most likely the reason is Madoff. But that is actually a good thing.
why you ask? Well, let me tell you!
the claw back stuff is a 1 shot deal. A very large (~50mill deal) though. So that money has to come from someplace, and the most likely way for them to raise that much cash (since an asset likely has to be sold) is part of the team.
the good part though is that once paid, it is done, and the team continues to just have to support itself in the future.
so yes, it does NOT have to mean that the Wilpons have ongoing financial issues, or that the team can’t support itself.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Also under consideration should be the clear drop in revenue in 2010 in the stadium from tix/parking/beer/food/etc., and a probable significant drop in SNY ad revenue for the first time since they started the network.
Combine that with the possible clawback, and add in the remote possibility which has been thrown around that the Wilpons may have KNOWN what Madoff was up to (which could result in huge extra damages/criminal liability/etc.) and we do have ownership in some dicey waters.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
Based on what I have read the viewership for SNY was unchanged to even slightly positive. Makes sense. Fans stayed home but still watched the game.
rustyjr
1/28/2011-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Jerz u want me to delete my article ?
stickguy
1/28/2011-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
not after i wrote a 500 word comment over there!
kistics
1/28/2011-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
So the whole reason why Wilpons are looking for a partner or two is because of Madoff lawsuit that they are involved in. Does this mean that they made money from Madoff investments? Otherwise, why would they be looking for more $$ from outside?
Also, this is somewhat contradicting since the Wilpons have insisted that the Mets finances have no ties with Madoff disaster.
I’m confused now..
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
I think it’s just as the Wilpons said. They are LOOKING INTO doing this for insurance purposes. They are not in that bad of shape financially right now as many say (as they are being sued for making money) BUT as Stick said 50M is a lot of money to have to fork over at one time. So the best way to net that 50 is to bring on someone.
kistics
1/28/2011-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
I’m confused because Sandy’s “spending like a small market team” this offeseason plan was set in place way before December. So this means that the Mets finances really did not have any impact from Madoff incident pre-lawsuit since the Wilpons made money.
But now they are afraid they’ll lose whole lot of $$ because of the lawsuit, they are looking for partners.
stickguy
1/28/2011-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
the madoff suit is not new news. they have known about the claw back amount for a long time. The whole madoff saga has been going on for 2-3 years now.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Because they are being sued to give back the money they took out of Madoff—I think that if they took out, say 50 million and only made 5 million, that the lawsuit might try to recoup more than just their profits, to possibly spread the Madoff money more equally among those who were robbed.
If the rumors of them taking their money out because they knew what was up early are even remotely true, they will be liable for loads of dough.
And of course everything in the Wilpon empire is tied together and related; especially in down economic times, and especially when real estate-related things are your main business.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
I am not sure to what degree it is tied together but naturally if they have to make a 50M payment then even their cigar fund will be affected. To me I am reading this as they are looking for an insurance plan in case they have to make that payment.
stickguy
1/28/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
pretty sure it is not an “if”, rather a “when” and “exactly how much”
kistics
1/28/2011-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
So their lack of spending had nothing to do with Madoff scandal since Wilpons made money out of Madoff. It was really lack of attendance that affected their bottom line, hence no increase in payroll.
But even with $50M payback should not affect the Mets operations IF they get strategic partners to cover the losses.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
Actually I think it was a combination of things.
1) Lack of players on the market that made sense to an under performing team.
2) Starting to see that big money towards mediocre players was not an answer ( the fill in with a big name method).
3) Fear of repayment.
4) Poor economic conditions
5) Lost revenues due to 1-4.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
TRS — I agree with this 100%. All 5 accounts. But let’s not underestimate the impact of #3.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
I think that it plays a part, just not sure it was the driving factor in such a weak off-season. I do not think they were as interested in Lee as you think. Remember at the time 7/150+. They were not going to touch that.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
Fine, if not Lee, how about one of the many relievers who signed 2-3 yr deals for less than $5m per? Could this team not have used Scott Downs or Grant Balfour instead of Tim Byrdak or DJ Carrasco?
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
And building a stadium with 10K less seats! Had to throw that in there.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Do we now owe Heyman and others apologies for intimating that the Mets have financial concerns resulting from Madoff?
There’s really no other way to interpret this (though I’m sure Ceetar will try).
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Me too as I have already began interpreting it differently than some. Oh darn, I will get called out too.
To me this has much more to do with the fear of the settlement and it’s future impact that it does with any current or previous impact. In other words I do not think it has really impacted things that much YET but if they have to make that large payment without other resources it certainly could.
stickguy
1/28/2011-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
makes sense. Sterling is really not much different than you (just richer).
say you roof suddenly needs to be replaced and costs 10K. you really have 3 choices:
1) write a check out of your cash accounts.
2) borrow money and take on more debt
3) sell something you own to raise the cash (stocks, your ’69 camaro, whatever).
Wilpons facing the same situation, on a much larger scale.
stickguy
1/28/2011-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
still does not mean that it has any impact to the running of the club (which is all they ever said).
Just that they need to raise a lot of cash, and that usually means having to sell some asset.
kistics
1/28/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
agreed.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
Well Wanny, did Heyman say the concerns were related to the clawback issue since they apparently withdrew and made money, or was he one of the (apparently utterly misinformed) media contingent talking about how the Wilpons lost hundreds of millions?
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah what do you think? Or perhaps they have been conservative because the economy is down, star players are under performing AND they knew they may have to pay some of their money back? Could it be a combination of things that are logical? Nah, gotta be broke.
kingman 26
1/28/2011-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
What??
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Just saying that the Mets could have limited spending for a number of reasons but because it’s NY and because of the Mets history the media continued to look for a reason for the lack of spending. Being that Madoff occurred around the same time they made the natural connection most likely without any proof of such connection.
Prismo
1/28/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
They’re just hedging their risk. If they don’t lose money and/or the Mets become successful again and start raking in more money the next few years, I bet they’d try to buy back their lost % of the team.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
B-10
BINGO!!!
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Wouldn’t they only be responsible to pay back on the money they made?
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
You are all over complicating this.
The Mets clearly have financial concerns. The statement says so itself — they want to ensure that the Mets have proper resources going forward. And they are obviously unsure as to whether they will able to do so independently after they settle their debts.
I agree that this season it probably hasn’t made a big difference; mostly because there really was no big money player that made a lot of sense for them.
But no one is going to give the Mets a $50m loan to pay off it’s clawback debt. Whomever purchases a percentage of the Mets is purchasing a share of the Mets and will likely not be selling back its percentage just because Fred re-stocked his cash reserves.
stickguy
1/28/2011-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
agreed about buying a stake to keep it.
and like you seem to be saying, it sounds like a cash issue vs. a financial issue.
I don’t know of course how they handle routine financials, but say they have 150mill in the bank to cover 2011 payroll. they really can’t take 50 of that out to pay the lawsuit off, without having to replace it from someplace.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
What I think some of us are saying is that this move is more for insurance purposes than the fact that they are currently in financial difficulty that has already been effecting the team.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Semantics.
And probably inaccurate considering the knowledge they’ve had for some time that they’d have to pay up.
I’d believe this was not a real concern — just an insurance matter — if they had been involved in the Cliff Lee bidding.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think they had any intentions of giving Lee what it would have taken to get him. You expected the Mets to up their payroll to 170M to bring in Lee?
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
Also of course the insurance matter is a concern for long-term contracts. If they knew they might have to make a 50M dollar payment they are not going to go out and spend foolishly. Still does not mean that they were currently in financial difficulty but they were preparing in case they were.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Again, that’s semantics.
This is a business in which the labor market often requires long term investment. If you’re afraid that you will not be able to meet those obligations then you have financial concerns. Whether your concern is that you can’t bay today’s bill or tomorrow’s is semantics as far as whether you are having difficulties today or tomorrow.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
I see your point. Just more than semantics to me but I think we are close on our opinions on this one. I just don’ think that so far the Wilpons have let it effect business.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
They may not have. But what would have happened if Felix Hernandez was a free agent this season?
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure. I am guessing the Yankees would have bought him the White House.
Regardless I don’t think they were raising payroll to close to 175M.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
pay… not bay… though that’s an interesting slip!
kistics
1/28/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
So the Wilpons did not lose money from Madoff scandal. Hence the speculation that lack of spending is a result of Madoff is false.
Now they might or might not lose money from the lawsuit, but that’s a different story.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
The lack of spending is as a result may not be false. It is not a surprise to them that they were facing the prospects of having to fork over some of this cash.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
And this is no surprise to the Mets. They knew from the beginning that there was a likelihood of them having to pay the piper.
The point is that while I don’t think their financial problems were a big problem this offseason, I think that is only because the market itself was weak relative to their needs. But I don’t doubt for one second the knowledge of this hanging over their head precluded them from even entering the Cliff Lee sweepstakes.
If you have an uncertain situation like this, there’s no way you invest big money for a long period of time without a resolution.
And when Sandy has said repeatedly that the Mets had no money to spend this offseason, you can’t seriously believe this wasn’t a part of it. Can you?
kistics
1/28/2011-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
So you are saying that Wilpons have speculated this lawsuit will take place in December and set a plan not to spend much in October/November.
I can buy that.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Kistics: I would be shocked otherwise. The efforts to recoup this money undertaken by the Trustee has been ongoing for a long time. There’s no way the Wilpons did not foresee having to cough up the dough.
kistics
1/28/2011-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
But the rumors saying that the Wilpons lost hundreds of millions dollars in Madoff scandal is false.
All the facts are pointing to the fact that the Wilpons made money.
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
It’s all clear as mud, at this point.
Sterling Enterprises is what is in “trouble” right? And Sterling Enterprises owns the Mets, SNY, etc., RIght?
kistics
1/28/2011-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
Especially for Cliff Lee sweepstake.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
As I said above, Madoff or no Madoff I just don’t think they would have gotten involved with Lee at the price that was being tossed around. Even if they had excess cash I don’t see them raising payroll to 170M+
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Ok, a two or three year deal for one of the many real relief pitchers whop signed this offseason would have been nice instead of Tim Byrdak, DJ Carrasco and Little Pedro Gonzalez from the Corona little league.
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
They did give Carrasco a two year deal. Again even this off-season what reliever that went on a reasonable multi-year deal would have made a substantial positive impact on the team? Do we also know for sure that Sandy’s strategy is not to waste any money on the pen and do your homework to find guys under the radar?
Also, Byrdak got the same basic deal as Beimel it appears.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, but Carrasco is a league average pitcher who was given a league average or below salary.
There were many better than average relievers available but the Mets didn’t choose to pay any of them. Why not? Have the Mets ever been scared off of paying a few million bucks to a good player?
TRS86
1/28/2011-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
Has that strategy worked recently? I think if Sandy had wanted Balfour he could have gotten him. At this point we don’t know what is Sandy and what is not. Especially not by basing it on Lee and two type A relievers. Remember even Cashman had no intentions of bringing in Soriano because of the loss of a draft pick. Even though for the Mets that would have been a 2nd rounder.
Would either Downs or Balfour have made a significant impact on this year’s team?
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
When compared to Byrdak, Tankersley and Carrasco? YES. A reliable guy to pitch the 8th inning or close if K-Rod can’t would make a difference. Clearly, these guys and others (Rauch, etc.) are better players than the ones the Mets signed. And better players make a better team.
As you say, the Type A designation is meaningless for the Mets this season.
If Sandy refuses on his own to pay market rate for players then perhaps he should go back to Oakland. If he doesn’t want to blow out the checkbook for someone, fine. But to not pay the same rate for the same type of players that other teams are paying? Ridiculous.
TRS86
1/28/2011-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Again, I just think it’s too early to know if these decisions were based on lack of resources or if they were based on a different strategy or both.
I agree Downs is better than Byrdak, who would not? However, to this year’s team is it worth the 15M and a lost draft pick? To me no. To you it appears so. To Sandy? Don’t know yet.
To say a 2nd round pick is meaningless or insignificant when your farm is ranked 26th is hopefully underestimating Sandy’s plan on fixing that problem.
TRS86
1/28/2011-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
So in summary….
Might, might not.
It could be because of financial issues that the Mets did not bring in Lee, Balfour and or Downs or it could be a new approach.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
If the new approach is not bringing in good players for market value then the approach is stupid. It’s not as if they used the “savings” elsewhere.
I really don’t see why it is so hard for people to admit that the Mets simply did not want to spend money this offseason.
TRS86
1/28/2011-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Because we just don’t know if that was the actual reason or not. I agree that it could have been part of it, we just disagree as to how much that impact was.
Saying “not bringing in good players for market value then the approach is stupid.” we will just have to wait and see if that is the case.
To me basically wasting 15M on Downs and giving up a pick would have been foolish THIS off-season. Now if we get into the season and realize that the entire team is going to perform and all we are missing is a LHRP/ setup guy then go get one. For now IMO it’s better to see what we have first.
njstuckintx
1/28/2011-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
Wanny, if that is the case, do you have a problem with what they’ve done? Or, I guess I should preface it with “if they have been forth-coming with the fans about what the situation was”.
Just curious.
wannybackstra
1/28/2011-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t have a problem with the players that they’ve chosen assuming they were operating within budgetary constraints (whatever the reason).
But if this offseason was orchestrated according to a new approach and not according to financial constraints …. well then it’s a complete and utter disaster.
stickguy
1/28/2011-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
entirely possible it was both (philosophy and financial) reasons. And that the financial reasons may not be what you think.
for philosophy, my impression of Sandy was that he did not believe in spending big money, and giving out long term deals, for RPs. Certainly not non-closers. And 3 years is very LT for an older RP, and $5mill is significant money. so, that could come into play, regardless of the budget.
financials, it seems clear that he was given a cap (150ish) to work with. like all teams (well, all but 1) get. and it is all speculation as to why. Believing the luxury tax should be treated as a cap? Revenue projections for 2011 not supporting more? They are broke and need the money to live on?
none of us know, but I suspect the 2nd one is most likely, with a bit of #1 mixed in. basically, they fell they spent a lot already, and more would not be prudent, so live with it.
and IMO the sterling issues are NOT mets (as in BB operations) issues. More that it is they need a bunch of cash for other reasons, and selling a piece of their most valuable, and probably most liquid, asset is the best way to get that.
team budgets are supposed to be set based on what the team can support, not how rich the owner is! Do owners use team revenues at times to support other endeavors? Probably. Are the wilpons doing that here? No clue, and no proof they are.
and I don’t think it is accurate to say they aren’t spending money this off season. they are spending a ton, just that most of it was already being spent, so they are spending what most people consider to be “more”.
actually, Pelf and dickey got a lot more (~6mill+ between them). So add that to the 8mill spent.