Feb 16
Today we look at yet another list from one of the TRDM Authors. Minor League Guru, Peter Duffy.
Overrated
C - Grote
1B – Kingman
2B – Milan
3B – Knight
SS – Ordonez
LF – Gilkey
CF – Timo Perez
RF – Burnitz
SP – Hampton
RP – Franco
Underrated
C – Stearns
1B – Clendenon
2B – Kaz Matsui…..I mean Edgardo Alfonso
3B – Ventura
SS – Harrelson
LF – Kevin Mitchell
CF – Lance Johnson
RF – Staub
SP – Terry Leach
RP – Randy Myers
MLBTradeRumors
Link: The Second Half Push: Harvey, Montero,... { Maybe he doesn't trust his... } – May 25, 4:33 AMLink: The Second Half Push: Harvey, Montero,... { Which is just nonsense semantics.... } – May 25, 4:28 AM
Link: If not Ike, who's on first? { Ike looks extremely awkward at... } – May 25, 4:07 AMLink: If not Ike, who's on first? { From the NY Post: Count... } – May 25, 3:54 AMLink: The Second Half Push: Harvey, Montero,... { The point of the article... } – May 25, 12:35 AM
31 comments
Ceetar
2/16/2011-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t overrate Hampton. Actually, I think he may be underrated due to the quick exit and school comments. He got off to a slow start but actually was a big part of getting the Mets to the WS, particularly in the NLCS.
At least, from a Mets standpoint. Probably overrated overall.
Same for Burnitz. definitely not overrated as a Met. he sucked, we knew he sucked.
saltygary
2/16/2011-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
The only reason Gilkey was overrated is because he is a movie star. I would say he is one of the bigger disappointments.
metsfan4decades
2/16/2011-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
Franco overrated? Is this of the variety of argument ‘b/c he’s a closer’?
Franco was good enough to at least get on the HOF ballet. He’s 4th on the all time save list. He pitched 14 seasons with the Mets, a tenure staying with one team in itself usually means production was what they were paying for all those years.
Harrelson underrated? How so? (and this coming from someone whose favorite Met as a kid was Buddy).
I think all realize his contributions to those teams back in the day, were mostly of the defensive variety and appreciated his toughness, love of the game and leadership qualities as well. I believe Buddy gets his due.
Those are my two to start with.
stickguy
2/16/2011-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
funny, but there are a number of guys on the overrated list that I think -pretty much sucked!
Ceetar
2/16/2011-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
Timo. He had a good week in St Louis.
saltygary
2/16/2011-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
Timo’s impact on the Mets for the last week of the season through the NLCS is not overrated one bit. He just needs to be kept in perspective.
kingman 26
2/16/2011-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
Geez man, I could not agree more with this statement!
He sure had more than a good week.
Ceetar
2/16/2011-4:21pm at 4:21 pm (UTC -4)
his 50 AB of .800 OPS at the end of the season and his 5/17 in the NLDS are not exactly something to cherish.
His 2002 was pretty good though. I didn’t remember he contributed that much that year.
kingman 26
2/16/2011-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmm, Grote overrated and Harrelson underrated?
Seems very strange.
Both were so-so offensively, excellent defensively, and clear leaders of the 1969–1973 era teams.
I would be very curious as to the rationale for Grote being overrated and Harrelson being underrated.
Seems like they should be “rated” the same.
metsfan4decades
2/16/2011-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
On another note:
Mets Sign Justin Hampson to Minors Deal
According to Matt Eddy of Baseball America, the Mets have signed LHP Justin Hampson to a Minor League contract, with an invitation to Spring Training.
Hampson, who will be 31 in May, last appeared in the major leagues in 2008 with the Padres, and he went 2-1 with a 2.93 ERA in 35 relief appearances. He is 5-4 with a 3.38 ERA in 79 career appearances, one of which was a start with the Rockies in 2006.
*******************************
I have absolutely no idea who this is. I’ll also admit to having lost track of all the arms signed this off season – with this Hampson and Iggy being the 2 latest. One would hope though with the multitude of arms signed, at least a couple have to be dark horses for having an impact this season…right?
Ceetar
2/16/2011-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
He’s got okay numbers. Wonder what’s keeping guys away? He pitched for the Ducks last season. (I editted his wikipedia page an hour ago to reflect his Metsness)
kingman 26
2/16/2011-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
Ceetar is editing Wikipedia.
metsfan4decades
2/16/2011-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
I often wondered if the ability for just anyone to update Wiki was true. Now I know!
kingman 26
2/16/2011-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
Uh, yeah.
Clearly the planet’s most accurate source of info.
Ceetar
2/16/2011-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yup. That’s how it works. In fact, it works better than most encyclopedias.
It ‘s less with things like fringe baseball players, but its’ very auto correcting. If i editted Tommy Hanson’ s wikipedia page to remind people he’s the first cousin of the band Hanson, it’d be mere minutes before someone rolled back the change.
metsfan4decades
2/16/2011-4:58pm at 4:58 pm (UTC -4)
And kingman makes a valid point but I often find myself using Wiki as a source for all types of info whether it’s something like ‘was that old movie I just watched every a play or a book first?’ or ‘what year did Hemmingway die’?
Then I wind up spending an hour or better clicking links within the original source to read about other mentioned sources. I used it the other night to look up one thing about Little Bighorn and got lost reading all the different accounts of Custer’s death .
kingman 26
2/16/2011-5:38pm at 5:38 pm (UTC -4)
Wikipedia is great for things like music, sports, etc, but not so much for politics.
All kinds of studies of IP addresses have shown that controversial political topics are often edited by CIA computers and similar sources. For example, a while ago Chilean fascist Pinochet’s page looked like it was written by his family! Totally unfair, and painted him as some sort of gentle savior rather than the opportunist murderer he was; but it has been changed.
Ceetar
2/16/2011-7:49pm at 7:49 pm (UTC -4)
There you go mixing up opinion and fact again. It’s hard to take anything you say seriously when you refuse to recognize the difference.
kingman 26
2/16/2011-7:54pm at 7:54 pm (UTC -4)
“There you go mixing up opinion and fact again.”
Uh, exactly where am I doing that, O great scholar and wordsmith?
kingman 26
2/16/2011-8:03pm at 8:03 pm (UTC -4)
I really don’t mean to be cruel, but do you even realize how ridiculous it is for you to say this to someone else:
“It’s hard to take anything you say seriously…”
The man who says Ollie was “treated unfairly” and just “wants to pitch”?
The man who says Mariano Rivera is “overrated?”
Just to use your all-time highlights.
wannybackstra
2/16/2011-5:39pm at 5:39 pm (UTC -4)
It may “work better” (whatever the hell that means) than other encyclopedias that don’t require citations and/or allow for references to be made to the most unreliable of sources and Internet pages as purported citations. But it sure as hell isn’t reliable and I wouldn’t try to pass it off as authoritative to a court or a professor or a scientist that will test its validity.
kingman 26
2/16/2011-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
You probably understood my comment for the sarcasm it was.
You are totally right.
Some Wikipedia articles are great; some are jokes.
wannybackstra
2/16/2011-5:49pm at 5:49 pm (UTC -4)
I did. And all of this explains why Wiki’s content is so succinct and the wealth of knowledge never “dissapates.”
kingman 26
2/16/2011-5:58pm at 5:58 pm (UTC -4)
+ Infinity
pfh64
2/16/2011-5:18pm at 5:18 pm (UTC -4)
Grote overrated? I don’t understand that at all. Johnny Bench, himself, said that Grote was a better catcher than he was. Other than Howard Johnson, and David Wright, who the heck played third base long enough to be overrated? Gilkey? Burnitz? Perez? These guys did not play long enough for the team to be rated. I agree with more of the underrated guys. Stearns, absolutely. Clenndenon, sure. Wouldn’t Kingman have been a more overrated LF than Gilkey? I would say Todd Hundley, considering all of his injuries, was more overrated. By the cause and effect of what it did to the team, Kaz Matsui could be both the most overrated 2B & SS.
I still want to know where the love for Skip Lockwood is?
kingman 26
2/16/2011-5:35pm at 5:35 pm (UTC -4)
Haha! Lockwood is SOOO underrated!
And I agree totally about Grote.
wannybackstra
2/16/2011-5:48pm at 5:48 pm (UTC -4)
I really don’t understand why the criteria are that are being used for these lists. And I haven’t seen any justification or discussion from the authors of the lists.
I’d really like to know how Terry Leach, who started 18 out of his 176 games pitched for the Mets and never more than 12 in a season qualified as underrated as a starting pitcher.
Sure, he filled in admirably but how can he be considered underrated in a role that was not even his primary role.
metsfan4decades
2/16/2011-8:04pm at 8:04 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe the same criteria we all used for compiling our 50 greatest Mets? In other words, all subjective and maybe not very heavy on stats.
Although with the first list yesterday, that author did attempt to respond to all posts who disagreed or questioned some on the list. I’ll give an A for effort on that.
stickguy
2/16/2011-8:20pm at 8:20 pm (UTC -4)
bingo.
basically, to have a discussion about over or under rated, you have to set some kind of baseline or rating!
otherwise, it is purely based on each persons perspective (opinion) on the guy, or I guess more accurately what you think other people think about the player, compared to what you did!
hazmet
2/16/2011-7:05pm at 7:05 pm (UTC -4)
So spot on with Grote, gotta wonder if the author was of an age to watch him play. Jerry was a catcher’s catcher and a pitcher’s best asset. I’ve posted this before: I’ll never forget he wasn’t getting the inside corner for a Pitcher and he called for a fastball dipped his shoulder and let it clock the ump. I’m pretty sure this wasn’t youthful imagination. And I forgot that Bench comment, thank’s for the reminder.
gategem
2/17/2011-4:47am at 4:47 am (UTC -4)
You’re recollections are correct as I witnessed that incident, not in person, but on the boob tube (as it was known back then).
If an inning ended with Grote in possession of the baseball he would always roll it out to the side of the mound opposite to the opposing team’s dugout to annoy the opposing team’s pitcher. If he was not satisfied with his own pitcher’s performance he would throw the ball back to the mound often with more velocity than the Met’s pitcher’s fastball. He was also known to be an s.o.b. to the beat reporters until he had an attitude adjustment near the end of his career. He was praised by the Mets’ pitchers for his pitch calling (although some said he too often called for the fastball with runners on base so he had a better chance of throwing out would be base stealers)and coaxing the best performance possible from his staff.