" He in my opinion is the second most important player in Mets history !"
When you mention the all time greats in Mets history who comes rushing to your fertile mind first? Mike Piazza ? Tom Seaver ? Rusty Staub ? Vince Coleman ( kidding, kidding) ? Well coming in at number six on this countdown of the top 50 Mets of all time is possibly the most important Met of the past 30 years. Yes folks it is time to give the ‘stache – Keith Hernandez his due !!
KeithBarlow Hernandez was born in San Francisco, California on October 20, 1953. As a child, Keithgrew up in both Pacifica and Millbrae, California. While attending CapuchinoHigh School, Keith was considered a all star athlete. Keith had mentioned many times how his father, John ( a former minor league baseball player) used to work both him and his brother hard , drilling the fundamentals of baseball into them. Keith graduated high school in 1971, and went on to briefly attend the College of San Mateo.. Keith was drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals in the 42nd round of the 1971 Major League Baseball Draft.
For the first two seasons of Keith’s minor league career, Keith would struggle. He had batteda combined .250during that time. In 1973 Keith was promoted to the Cardinals Triple A affiliate, the Tulsa Oilers andhe immediately foundhimself as a batter. He batted .333 that season withfive home runs. In 1974, Keithwould dominate Triple A. he batted .351 with the Oilers andwas promoted to the Cardinals that August. Keith made his major league debut on August 30th against his hometown San Francisco Giants , and went 1-2.
After the ’74 season ended, the Cards traded their everyday first baseman, Joe Torre tot he Metsso that Keithcould have the starting job at first base. Keith’s first year with the Cards was a mixed bag. He split his time between the majors and their miinor league affiliate in Tulsa because even though he was a strong defensive player ( he had a .996 fielding percentage that season), Keithwas puzzled by major league pitching. He finished the season batting .250 with three home runs and twenty RBIs.
In 1978, Keithwould win his first of eleven Gold Glove awards, narrowly beating out Los Angeles Dodgers first baseman, Steve Garvey. 1979 would mark the turning point in Keith;s career. He finished the season with a league leading batting averageof .344 , with48 doubles, as well as 116 runs scored. Keith along with Pittsburgh Pirate great, Willie Stargell as the Co MVP’S of the National League.
After the 1979 season , Keith was considered one of the premier hitters in all of baseball. He was a perennial .300 hitter and was worshiped by kids everywhere. In 1982, Keith would win his first World Series ring, when the Cardinals outlasted the Milwaukee Brewers in a hard fought seven game series. Keith had eight RBI’s in the series.
During the ’83 season, Keith and manager, Whitey Herzog had a falling out over what Herzoghad deemed ” Keith’s lack of passion for the game”. On June 15, 1983 , the Cardinals foolishly traded Keith to the New York Mets relief pitcher, Neil Allen as well as minor league pitching prospect, Rick Ownbey. Allen was a decent closer during his tenure with the Cards, but Ownbypitched briefly with St Louis, but never could stick in the majors.
When Keith came to the Mets he had to change his number from 37 to 17, because the number 37 was already retired in honor of Metsmanager , Casey Stengel. Keith wore 37 to honor his favorite player, Mickey Mantle and accepted the number 17 because at leastit had the number 7 in it. Keithwas miserable in his first season with the Mets – a franchise that had not had a winning record in seven years. Fellow Mets player, Rusty Staubbefriended Keith, andshowed him all there was to do in New York – including the vibrant night life . Keithalso kept in contact withhis father who followed the minor leagues with a passion andtold Keith that the Metssystem was fertile with talent.
Keithwould re-sign with the Mets that off season, anda new Manager by the name of Davey Johnson along with some fresh faced talent such as Dwight Gooden, Ron Darling and Hubie Brooks would emerge from the minors. Under the new manager, andwiththe leadership of Keith, the Metsfinished 1984 season with a record of 90-72 – their best season since 1976 !
In 1985,Keithhad to pay the piper by testifying in a Pittsburgh court about his cocaine use during the trial of drug dealer Curtis Strong. Keith was mandated by the commissioners office afterwards to make anti drug ads or be suspended from the game.
In 1985 the Mets were in a heated battle for first place with the St Louis Cardinals, Keith’s old team. The Mets won a amazing 98 games that season,but they fell three games short of beating the Cards for the N.L East division title.
In 1986, everything came together for the Mets. They won a astonishing 108 games. The rest of the teams in the National League East never stood a chance, the closest team – The Philadelphia Phillies were a mere 21 anda half games behind. Keith finished the season with a batting average of .310 , 13 homers and 84 RBIs. The Mets beat the Houston Astrosin six games to win the NLCS. Keith batted just .231 during the ’86 World Series , but when he was on base it seemed like he was in the middle of every rally. The Mets ended up besting the Red Sox in Seven games that year.
In 1987, manager Davey Johnson officially made Keithalong with catcher, Gary Carter the co captains of the Mets. In ’87 and’88 Keithplayed well but it was obvious that his skills were starting to erode. In 1988, Keith won his eleventh andfinal Gold Glove.He went to his final post season with the Mets that season, but hey lost to the Los Angeles Dodgers in seven games.
Keith would only play in 75 games for the Mets in 1989. He was bothered by numerous injuries and couldn’t recapturehis swing. He finished the season with a batting average of .233 ( the lowest in his Mets career) and the Mets declined to sign him after the season ended. Mets fans everywhere were upset that Keith wasn’t re-signed , but it was evident he was not the player he once was.
In 1990, Keith signed with the Cleveland Indians as a free agent. He played in only 45 games until being sidelined by a hamstring injury. He batted just .200 with one home run and eight RBIs in his tenure with the Tribe. Keith retired at the end of the season.
Since Keith’s retirement after the ’90 season, he has kept himself more than busy. He is a best selling author, having written three books (“If at First: A Season With the Mets” ,”Pure Baseball: Pitch by Pitch for the Advanced Fan” as well as “Shea Good-Bye: The Untold Inside Story of the Historic 2008 Season”. Keith has been a television pitch man along with New York Knick great, Walt ” Clyde” Fraizer endorsing” Just For Men ” hair products. Keith has been a important member of the Mets SNY and WPIX broadcast team for the last several seasons along with long time broadcaster Gary Cohen,as well as former teammate , Ron Darling and roving reporter, Kevin Burkhardt. In my opinion they are one of the best broadcasting teams in all of baseball, giving a somewhat unbiased calling of the game. One of the highpoint is what as fellow blogger ” Brooklyn Mets Fan” has termed Keith’s “mexisms” - which are usually funny comments our non-sequitursthat usually have very little do do withwhat is going on during the game action. Keith along with his fellow broadcaster, Gary Cohen and Ron Darling, have created atheCharity Gary, Keith & Ron: Pitch In For A Good Cause, which supports their pet charities. To donate, please go to www.pitchinforagoodcause.org where your donations as well as the net profits of the merchandise they sell go to the Cobble Hill Health Center ( Gary Cohen’s charity), Juvenile Diabetes Research Center ( Ron Darling’s charity), and The Danbury Women’s Center( Keith’s charity). Last season, Keith won two New York Emmys.
Keith has been on hand for many Mets celebrations, including his induction to the New York Mets Hall of Fame in 1997 , The 25th anniversary of the ’86 Met and the closing ceremonies at Shea Stadium.
If there was ever a person that should have been elected to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot I believe it should be Keith. I don’t know if it is because of his participation in the MLB drug hearings in the mid ’80′s or that there is just a New York bias, but I think that the numbers that he has put up through his entire career prove he is more than deserving. A nd many of the Mets faithful want to see his number retired on the left field wall, so players such as Jose Lima or Anderson Hernandez will never be seen wearing that number ever again !
On of the biggest misconceptions about Keith is that he is of Mexican decent. His father is actually Spanish and his mother is Scots-Irish.
In his 7 years with the Mets he had won seven gold gloves, . batting .297with 80 homers, 468 RBIs and a slugging % of .429. He was also the undeniable leader of those dominant teams of the mid to late ’80′s.
Tomorrow we will profile one of the most important pitchers in Mets history who has been voted number 5 on the list of the top 50 Mets of all time.
And with that said… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today includes :
Middle reliever from the ’06 team, Jorge Julio is 32 (1979) . Jorge was a big fireballer witha penchant for serving up game winning homers in his short 18 game career with the Mets . He kind of looked like Armando Benitez, but with even less will power for midnight snacks. The best thing that I can say about Jorge is that he was part of the deal that sent Kris Benson tot he Baltimore Orioles for him and at the time “throw in ” pitcher John Maine. Later that season Julio would net us Orlando Hernandez when he was traded to the Arizona Diamondbacks.
And while you stay awake at night hoping that the Mets offense wakes up by the start of the season, just remember that there are just 39 Dave Magadan days until the Mets open the 2011 season against the Florida Marlins in Miami, and just 36 moredays until the Mets 2011 home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn has contacted a lawyer to sue the makers of the film “Precious” he claims that the movie was based on his life !!!
154 comments
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-7:17am at 7:17 am (UTC -4)
Keith Hernandez is my all time favorite Met. I had him as #2 on my list. Statistically, he might not have come in #2 but hands down my favorite. I’m a bit surprised he isn’t higher on this list.
We all heard the stories, read the reports, knew what his faults were, but I would be hard pressed to think of another Met that lived, ate and breathed baseball the way Keith did on that mid 80s team. He was on the field to win. He made everyone else around him better because of that. He was fiery, he was ‘gritty’, his defense was superb, his bat was always present. Best deal Cashen every did and thanks in no small part to Rusty Staub he resigned with the Mets.
I’m fortunate enough to live in the SNY area and listening to Keith with Gary and Ron just makes you laugh. Most nights he makes Gary and Ron laugh as well. You never know what’s coming out of his mouth. But to this day, he still remains very knowledgeable on the game of baseball and isn’t shy to give his opinions on the players and teams. Signing him as a ‘color’ analyst was the 2nd best thing the Mets did in regards to Keith. I own 4 GK&R tee shirts.
Retire # 17 !!
njstuckintx
3/3/2011-7:46am at 7:46 am (UTC -4)
Great post and wise words from a young lady.
Retire 17. Can we get a petition or something?
rustyjr
3/3/2011-7:59am at 7:59 am (UTC -4)
I think we should put prism on the job
Prismo
3/3/2011-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Why me? I don’t even know who this Hernandez character is! Was he on the ’69 team or something?
kingman 26
3/3/2011-7:59am at 7:59 am (UTC -4)
And 17 should have been retired long, long ago.
It is ironic that the sleeping clown who was the largest part of the sideshow the early 1960s teams were has HIS number 37 retired, which is why Keith had to switch from his 37 to 17 when he came to the Mets!
ajgmets
3/3/2011-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Quite simply without Casey Stengel ..this franchise may never have come into existence..or survived.. You can’t disrespect the legend..
kingman 26
3/3/2011-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
“this franchise may never have come into existence..or survived”
???
Why would you write this? He had less than nothing to do with the creation of the Mets, and he was a sleeping buffoon as manager.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
Along with years between the inductees into Mets HOF, disbanding banner day, and not retiring #17, the Mets and the PR department leave something to be desired lately…..
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-8:46am at 8:46 am (UTC -4)
Oh, and you are now at the top of my Xmas card list for referring to me as ‘young’ lady……
njstuckintx
3/3/2011-9:06pm at 9:06 pm (UTC -4)
ajgmets
3/3/2011-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
A great Met, a great MLB Career and a player on the absolute cusp of enshrinement in Cooperstown. Not much more can be said about Keith Hernandez and his impact upon the Mets return to the height of Major League Baseball and New York Glory in the mid to late 1980’s.
The acquisition of Mex along with those of Gary Carter and Ron Darling plus the emergence of Doc, Darryl, Nails, Mookie, Sid, Wally and the rest, led by Davey Johnson (linked to 1969 World Series Championship via his fly ball caught by Cleon to end the series) brought the Mets back to the headlines of New York sports pages.
The fiery, cocky attitude backed by their dominance led to our beloved team being known as “Pond Scum” and worse. So what if Mex smoked in the dugout or was in the clubhouse popping a beer when Buckner let the Mookster’s roller go through his legs, so what if all the guys didn’t behave like choirboys at Cooters in Houston, they were scrappy, gritty even dirty but these were winners (Charlie Sheen reference intended) these were OUR METS! And the on field leader in my honest opinion was Keith Hernandez!
At number six in this series, Hernandez, in my opinion may be one of the Top 3 Most important Mets of all Time. RETIRE #17 .Soon!
His numbers and contributions merit his discussion as a Hall of Famer, but I have a personal story regarding Keith.
In July of 1989 I was in Minneapolis on business when the meetings I was attending finished early and I decided to take in a Twins game at the “Homerdome” by myself. It was early afternoon when I went back to the hotel to change and I headed into downtown Minny at about 3:30. I’d been to a few Twins games here before over the years but always with business associates who had tickets and drove to the ballpark. I pulled my rental Lincoln into a parking lot across the street from the Dome and was stopped by someone who I soon learned was a Nun. It turns out the lot was the back side of a church and was not available for ballpark parking. I pled my case to this woman, saying I was in town on business from New Jersey. As our conversation continued she said she’d attended Seton Hall in NJ, and after showing her my Alumni card, she proceeded to inform me that there was a side alley between the buildings on the church property in which I could park and she’d keep an eye on the car for me from her window in the convent. I offered to pay her but she waved me away telling me to enjoy the game. As I walked through the lot I noticed a Bennigan’s restaurant/bar within walking distance so I stopped in for a bite and a few beverages. As I sat at the bar, the barmaid and I struck up a conversation about me being a Mets fan and loving baseball. She informed me about some early bird ticket plan at the dome so I finished up and went to the box office and bought 1 ticket (for $3.50!) It was a GA ticket which, when I presented it was told by an usher to sit just about anywhere I wanted. I sat about 15 rows from the field behind the visitors’ dugout. It turns out that the Twins were playing the Indians and I later learned that only about 7 or 8 thousand fans were actually in the building. I was a bit disappointed that I wouldn’t get the chance to see Keith Hernandez, one of my favorite Mets, who was on the DL having broken his right kneecap in May. So, I settled in watched BP and then got to watch the Twins get the comeback win in the ninth for none other than Frank Viola. As I headed out on my way back to the car, I of course stopped in at Bennigan’s yet again. The place was a little more crowded but the barmaid remembered me and came over to ask if I’d gone to the game. I explained that it was complete game in about 2-1/2 hours, but that it was too bad I didn’t see Hernandez. At that point she came around the bar and took me to the rear of the place and pointed to a table where sat none other than Keith Hernandez himself. I walked over to him and said how I missed him in that night’s game and was a huge Mets fan. He looked up from what appeared to be at least his 5th drink of the night and stared at me before asking…”Gus?”, I replied yes. To which he reminded me that we’d met back in my days when I was doing some production work at WFAN before it was WFAN (WHN at the time). To say I was stunned is an understatement. He told me to have a seat with him as he ordered another drink and I ordered a beer. He said he was in town with the ballclub while rehabbing and was hoping to start swinging a bat soon and had met with the author of his book “If At First”, Mike Bryan earlier in the evening. We sat and talked baseball and life (and had a few more beverages) for what ended up being almost 3 hours (I think they call it “LAST CALL”). How it took me over 2 hours to get back to my hotel is a story for another day…LOL. Keith said he really hated leaving New York but was anxious to get back to the Indians that season and the next to justify the 2 year deal he’d signed with them. He spoke of how nice the new ballpark (Jacobs Field) was and how the Indians were building and on the verge of winning. He turned out to be quite prophetic as Cleveland became competitive to the point of reaching the World Series in 1995. I recall telling him that my favorite Met had been Jerry Grote; he laughed and said “I think Kid’s pretty good too!” A night I’ll never forget.
Today the expert game analysis provided by Mex on Mets broadcasts is more often than not “Spot On.” His interaction with Ron Darling and Gary Cohen is entertaining and informative. Even his documented “booth naps” and mild indiscretions regarding some comments he’s made, make for enjoyable watching although I’d much rather he work the radio side to get more of his thoughts. I’m old school and there’s nothing like baseball on the radio.
Keith’s book “Pure Baseball,” while a bit drawn and bordering on boring for most is an absolute must read, TWICE at least, for any REAL baseball fan…
Good work Ed (editor?) (especially on the charity information) FYI…I believe Darling is now the JDRC lead guy since the passing of the great Ron Santo….
So Mets fans .What’s the order of the Final 5? Seaver, Doc, Darryl, Piazza and Kooz?
I’m a little surprise Kent didn’t garner enough votes to make top 50…
njstuckintx
3/3/2011-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
That was a solid post.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-7:58am at 7:58 am (UTC -4)
Rusty, amazing job as always, and the quote under the classic picture is right on the money.
SIXTH greatest Met?
Laughable.
MF4D says it perfectly:
“Keith Hernandez is my all time favorite Met. I had him as #2 on my list. Statistically, he might not have come in #2 but hands down my favorite. I’m a bit surprised he isn’t higher on this list.”
The most important player on the greatest team in Met history, the clear leader as all of his teammates reiterate today, the man whose acquisition was the beginning of the great mid-80s teams, the greatest fielding first baseman ever, and the definition of “clutch.”
Shame on the people who had him out of the top 3.
He is number 2.
Seaver is 1, Keith is 2, Piazza is 3.
Doc and Darryl ahead of Keith?
Never, no way, no how.
rustyjr
3/3/2011-8:01am at 8:01 am (UTC -4)
Next Thursday I will reveal my personal list
kingman 26
3/3/2011-8:11am at 8:11 am (UTC -4)
Excellent!!
So we will have another day of this to look forward to!
I seriously am dreading the day when this series comes to an end…
Really just amazing work.
rustyjr
3/3/2011-8:19am at 8:19 am (UTC -4)
Thanks
njstuckintx
3/3/2011-8:26am at 8:26 am (UTC -4)
Definitely, stellar work.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
As much as I loved watching Daryl and especially Doc back in the day, I can’t believe after all lists were submitted they came in ahead of Keith.
But…as Rusty clearly stated up front, it was a list of ‘OUR’ top 50 Mets so hard to pick on fans opinions on that. If this list was compiled using stats, we all know it would have been different…..
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
For sure an upset.
What I am curious is however that this means that either a few posters left him off the list or had him further down in the order. I will not question how Rusty did the ranking system at all. He has done a great job. I do wonder, Rusty, if you just went with a straight this player was mentioned on 70 list or if you took into account where the player was on the list? How did you know when a reader was just listing names or ranking them?
Either way, great series. Took an incredible amount of commitment.
rustyjr
3/3/2011-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
No he was left off a few lists – I was surprised
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Wow, must have just been selective memory.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Or a very, very, VERY faulty one.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Left off a few lists? Blasphemy!
stickguy
3/3/2011-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
not everyone spent a large amount of time crafting their list. ANd some people lost the original, and had to throw together a replacement at the last minute.
so quite possible a few names were left off by accident, not on pupose!
I am sure the over rankings would have been different if you could have weighted the rankings.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
“not everyone spent a large amount of time crafting their list. ANd some people lost the original, and had to throw together a replacement at the last minute.”
So you leave off Keith?
Silly my friend.
Seaver, Piazza, Keith, Doc, and Darryl cannot be forgotten by the rational fan.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
I can understand some not liking Keith the announcer but Keith as a Met player? Bah…
kingman 26
3/3/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I disagree with his politics, and he clearly is a very lazy guy, but I love him as an announcer for his knowledge and frankness, and he is definitely my all-time favorite Met!
Again, a generational thing I think.
Cannot see how anyone who was maybe at least mid-to-late teens during the Keith era could not have him in their top 3 Mets of all time.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
On another note, anyone think it’s do or die day for Ollie today?
As much as I would have loved to see RA pitch yesterday, I’m glad this one is televised today. I’d like to see how Ollie looks myself.
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, was just reading the poll and comments over at MB. What a terrible question on the poll.
Are you rooting for Perez to succeed or fail today?
Succeed
Fail
70+ % rooting for him to fail. Wow.
I hope he pitches a no hitter with 12 K’s in 4 innings and then gets traded myself. I would never root against a Met. I would hope our new management is able to see reality regardless of how his 2-3 innings go today.
stickguy
3/3/2011-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
he either needs to find himself and be very good, or blow to historic levels and force himself off the team.
the worst thing that can happen now is a string of “sorta, almost OK” outings that keep him on the roster.
since I am not expecting the forer, the latter won’t bother me too much!
I do, however, think he will get 1 more outing after this, and if today and next week both look like the last one, then they will just give up and bite the bullet.
still more worried about castillo hanging around at this point.
TRS86
3/3/2011-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
It’s not about wanting him to be on the team or not. The idea of the poll is are you rooting against him. That to me is going too far.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
I saw that and refused to vote. Agree with you about that question and the way it was worded.
I too was hoping he would show enough to get some kind of trade value out of him, even if we had to pay a portion of his salary. As long as that measure of success doesn’t prompt the FO to give him a spot on this roster.
stickguy
3/3/2011-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
speaking of televised, my new computer showed up yesterday. Need to get it all hooked up to see how the game comes in on it. Better have been worth the money going overboard on the specs!
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
I’m still researching how to get ‘Push To TV’ type of technology to set up wirelessly from my laptop to the TV. Need to figure this out by Sunday the 13th as my niece is getting married in Las Vegas in one of those wedding chapels with a live web cam. Need to stream it to the TV so my parents can watch.
stickguy
3/3/2011-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
you can always do it the old fashioned way. Just use a wire. If it is a newer TV there will be a connection for it (and the new laptop will have an output).
I used to use a monitor all the time with my office laptop, and the TV can serve as a big monitor even without streaming it wirelessly.
Still, the wireless should work as long as you have a wifi enabled TV, or Blue ray DVR, and it is connected to the same router that you laptop is working from. Just don’t ask me how to make it happen! That’s what the instruction manuals are for.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Thanks.
I don’t have a wifi enabled TV nor DVR so for now, probably going the HDMI cable route.
Somewhere down the road, I guess I now have to buy a newer technology TV to support the features on the new laptop.
This is like buying new furniture then deciding the carpeting has to be replaced or the walls repainted. LOL.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
LOL…found this quote this morning on Patrick Flood’s latest blog entry concerning HoJo:
“I do know that HoJo was corking his bat,” [Keith] Hernandez said on TV during Game 1 of the Mets-Brewers doubleheader. “His father corked his bats for him. . . . Howard did it kind of later in his career.”
Asked by broadcast partner Howie Rose how he knew Johnson broke the rules, Hernandez replied, “Howard told me. He can’t keep his mouth shut!”
- The Daily News, June 2003
stickguy
3/3/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Only the Mets would hire an outed cheater and known hacker to be the batting coach!
stickguy
3/3/2011-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Keith is also a good example of why you need to be patient with young players that have obvious skills, even if they don’t show much initially in the majors. A Gon is another one.
guys that came up relatively young (having been HS signees), and putting up good numbers in the minors and been rated highly on prospect lists (I assume Keith was?).
and for their first couple of (not full) years, they pretty much sucked with the bat.
Hell, 2 teams even gave up (to a degree) on Gonzolez before he found his stride. And keith took a few years of patience in St. L.
Just need to keep that in mind (well, the Met fans that think every prospect that does not set the world on fire immediately is trash need to!) when looking at guys like F Mart, Ike, etc.
and of course, not to write off Duda after 31 ABs!
saltygary
3/3/2011-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Personally I find Keith a little overrated.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
I find this comment a little overrated!
saltygary
3/3/2011-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
LOL I am going to use every opportunity to bust TRS’s chops on that Carter article.
TRS86
3/3/2011-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Hey I still stand behind that article. Carter’s CAREER with the Mets is overrated. Maybe not his impact on the 86 team but his career, yes.
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
going back to the woodshed for some more lashings I see!
next time, define the baseline in the article. Makes the argument easier.
saltygary
3/3/2011-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Per ESPN: Mets owners may face more allegation
NEW YORK — The Wall Street Journal is reporting the New York Mets’ owners will face more allegations from a court-appointed trustee who is trying to recover money for victims of the Bernard Madoff Ponzi scheme if they fail to reach a settlement.
The Journal, citing unidentified sources, reports that attorneys for trustee Irving H. Picard have informed Fred Wilpon and Saul Katz that additional allegations about amounts invested with Madoff will be added by March 18.
Picard sued Wilpon and Katz and entities related to Sterling Equities in December, seeking at least $300 million.
Picard claimed the Mets profited with their Madoff investments and ignored warnings that his high returns might be false.
Wilpon has said his family was a victim in the scheme.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=6177099
TRS86
3/3/2011-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
BOOOOOOO!!!!!
LOL.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Individuals and at least one huge investment house are on record as having warned them long before it all collapsed.
Every word out of their mouths since the WFAN appearance in October 2009 has been a total lie.
They are greedy, dishonest, and manipulative.
And rather revolting overall.
They deserve whatever they get at this point; and let’s hope they get it soon so the team can move on.
saltygary
3/3/2011-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
The Wilpon;s are looking more and more like Mubarak every day.
I want this over quick, I just want baseball.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
At least Mubarek had the decency to finally leave town!
kistics
3/3/2011-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
This is a crazy idea and not sure if it makes sense with all the financial troubles right now. But putting all the crap aside, what do you think about trading Luis and Ollie for Zito? Of course the Giants would have to take majority of his left over salary. Here’s what’s left over on his contract.
2011 – $18.5M
2012 – $19M
2013 – $20M
2014 – $7M (club option of $18M and $7M buyout)
In 2011, Ollie and Luis’ salary is basically a wash with Zito’s. That leaves $46M left. Say Giants take 90% of what’s leftover and that would leave the Mets with $4.5M bill for Zito over 2 years (assuming 2014 option doesn’t get picked up, I also think there are some IP milestones that would make the option to vest). That’s about $2.25M per season for 2012 and 2013. Now Zito has a bad rep because of his contract. But at #5 starter, $2.5M is not that bad.
I know this sounds crazy, but just to stir up some stuff..
oleosmirf
3/3/2011-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
its definitely crazy considering Ollie and Luis’s contracts are off the books in less than a year
TRS86
3/3/2011-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly I see no reason for the Giants to do it. They do not really need salary relief yet and while he is not worth 20M a year he is one of the best 5th starters in the league.
kistics
3/3/2011-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Giants are looking to buyout Zito’s contract. He was left off of their playoff roster last season. I have a sense that Zito and the Giants FO are not seeing each other eye to eye. So why not save $4.5M.
TRS86
3/3/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
He was left off their playoff roster just like most 5th starters are. Also they would not be saving 4.5M they would be losing 18M in Castillo and Perez. Two players they most likely would just release.
I sense they are very happy with having a guy like Zito be their 5th starter. Obviously they wish that he was not paid like an ace but no reason to dump him.
kistics
3/3/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
If they are looking to release Zito, why not do the trade?
TRS86
3/3/2011-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
I have read nothing where they are looking to release Zito.
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
As ESPN.com’s Buster Olney points out, the Giants would have to have a legitimate alternative in place before dumping Barry Zito and the $64.5MM remaining on his salary. If Jeff Suppan earns a rotation spot or someone else pitches unexpectedly well, the Giants could consider releasing Zito, but until then they can use the durable left-hander. Here’s more on the Giants and other notes from Olney:
* Olney says now is the time for the Giants to dump Zito if they’re ever going to do it. The Giants are coming off of a World Series title, so Olney argues that they’re working from a position of credibility. They aren’t likely to cut Zito, however.
* As Andrew Baggarly of the San Jose Mercury News writes, manager Bruce Bochy says Zito is the team’s fourth starter and GM Brian Sabean says the team isn’t frustrated with him.
stickguy
3/3/2011-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
depends how badly if at all they really do want to get rid of him, and how much $$ the mets would pick up.
stickguy
3/3/2011-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
with that kind of salary relief, it is worth a shot.
TRS86
3/3/2011-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Anyone find this quote, strange or just plain wrong?
According to Klapisch, “The closer Reyes gets to free agency, the greater the likelihood of a midsummer trade.”
Well no. The closer he gets to FA the less likely he is to be traded. Considering he does not become a FA until after the trade deadline.
kistics
3/3/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Do you ever see a scenario where the Phillies sign Reyes? That would be VERY interesting.
TRS86
3/3/2011-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah actually they could afford him. They would have to trade Blanton but not re-signing Rollins and letting Ibanez walk (obviously) clears more than enough room.
kistics
3/3/2011-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly. Assuming Jose has a good season, if the Phils are looking for the best SS available in the market, Jose must get on their radar.
oleosmirf
3/3/2011-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
the Mets would never let that happen. It would be a PR disaster worse than anything we’ve seen so far.
kistics
3/3/2011-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
It would be and the Phillies players don’t like Reyes much. So that’s working towards our favor at least.
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
they only don’t like him because he is a met. Coming off a big year, replacing the corpse that Rollins has become? they will love him.
kistics
3/3/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
I can also see the Yanks sign him. Moving Jeter to OF.
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Jeter moving to CF at age 38ish could be even funnier than watching him try to play SS.
If he moves, it pretty much has to be LF or DH
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
only up to them to an extent. If he wants to leave, they can’t stop him. And if they can only go up to a certain $ amount, they might get beat out.
but realistically, unless a team goes all Crawford on them (say, 8/160+), they should be able to get an offer to match and he stays.
and if that happens, and they pass anyway, then I doubt they will be caring about PR anymore, since likely the sewer would have already dumped on them, and the owners will be in survival mode.
oleosmirf
3/3/2011-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
actually I think the Wilpons would have even more incentive to sign Reyes just to say something to the effect of “Hey we just signed Reyes to a big contract, clearly we have no money issues related to the Mets”
stickguy
3/3/2011-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
its also like buying furniture on one of those no payments for 12 months deals.. They can sign him now, and not worry about how to pay for it until April, 2012!
stickguy
3/3/2011-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
absolutely they could. even makes some sense for them.
and TRS, no need to trade blanton. rollins going is a big chunk of it, and ibanez is also 10mill+.
there is also a chance that Oswalt is not around next year. If that happens, 16mill less on the books.
Reyes is younger, by almost 3 years, than any of their other (the phils) position players (leaving RF out for now, since that is undecided, and likely will be a journeyman stop gap to start with).
TRS86
3/3/2011-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not the fact that they could not afford Reyes because of Blanton Stick. It’s that to free up money to spend on other needed areas like the hole in LF and in the rotation.
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
except there really won’t be a hole in the rotation. At some point, they will be looking to blend in some younger talent anyway.
No idea what they will do in LF. But if they sign reyes, does not have to be a top $$ guy.
TRS86
3/3/2011-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
I agree that they would not have to replace with big names but I think just for flexibility they would need to trade Blanton.
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
too early to tell. Who knows which players make it through the season in one piece, and if anyone young steps up.
pretty much like every team!
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
I saw a tweet? article headline? earlier that said something about the Yankees eying Reyes…
oleosmirf
3/3/2011-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
i would be absolutely shocked if Reyes is not here at this point next season especially if he has a great year.
stickguy
3/3/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
picking a few nits here I see!
but you are correct, poorly worded comment. Not quite sure what angle he is taking here.
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
well, at least that 1B dude they got playing 2B today made a nice play. Never saw keith do that!
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
also, going to call this one early. reyes is healthy and good to go.
sign him.
Prismo
3/3/2011-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
Final Ollie line: 2IP, 0R, 2H, 0BB, 0K
So the UNDERs won in both IP (<2.25) and R (<3.5)
Prismo
3/3/2011-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
FB averaged 83-84mph
(this was against the Cards’ B-squad)
stickguy
3/3/2011-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
so really, this outing didn’t prove much, did it?
but for sure, we see him again in 5 days.
Prismo
3/3/2011-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
There should be a rule: if your fastball is slower than Dickey’s knuckleball, you’re not allowed in the rotation.
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
Good thing Glavine and El duque. retired.
Prismo
3/3/2011-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you for the sarcasm.
I’ll have you know that in 2007 (Glavine’s last year as a Met) his average FB velocity was 84.8 and his ERA was 4.45.
Also in 2007, El Duke pitched his final innings with the Mets (and final of his career in the bigs), to an average FB velocity of 88.4.
Your point is stupid.
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
Hey don’t tell me you would not take Glavine’s 2007 out of Ollie? LOL.
Prismo
3/3/2011-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
Certainly not his final start!
stickguy
3/3/2011-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
even sadder, Dickey has a much better idea about where the knuckler is going than Ollie does about his FB.
stickguy
3/3/2011-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
Ike looking good so far. And nice glove work by Kirk N.
stickguy
3/3/2011-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
and don’t tell me that Duda doesn’t have the arm to play the OF!
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
Back to Krod’s option here is what the head of the PU said “There’s arbitration precedent that makes clear that a team cannot sit a player down or decline to use him to prevent him from earning a bonus or having a year vest.”
What that does not say is that the Mets can’t change his role. He can be setup man or they can convert him into a starting pitcher if they wish.
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
Lets see how Izzy does today.
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
No hits and a walk. Anyone know how many pitches the walk was?
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
Reyes caught stealing.
Prismo
3/3/2011-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, here’s some welcome news:
Domonic Brown is 0-15 with 9K’s so far in ST.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
I see he got a walk today.
Phil fans just penciled him into as ROY this year.
TRS86
3/3/2011-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
I wonder how Murphy looked at 2B?
Prismo
3/3/2011-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
From twitter heard he was fine, made some alright plays. There weren’t many runners on base and were no DP opportunities, so this game didn’t mean much.
TRS86
3/3/2011-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
Mejia’s control gone.
Walk, hit batter, wild pitch.
Anyone else concerned that he really does not K anyone either?
stickguy
3/3/2011-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
not really. He has in the past, and when you look at it as he is a 20 YO guy that should be spending the year in AA learning the finer pionts of pitching, and not expected to be up in the majors for 2+ years, even less.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
Only so far as it’s just points to another reason he should start in Triple A.
Good game though.
Murph commented after they took him out that he was looking for some double play opportunities. He didn’t get any – think just 2 ground balls for the 1st base out.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-4:09pm at 4:09 pm (UTC -4)
I thought spring training meant nothing??
TRS86
3/3/2011-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
Not talking about not K’ing anyone in ST. Talking about in general.
I was more giving an update on his inning with his control.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
Collins on with Francesa right now.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry, but I had to laugh right out loud when Collns said Ollie did what they asked him to today. He didn’t walk anyone. Hopefully he can build on it next time.
His goals have reached an all time low.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
More LOL at Terry calling Francesa ‘Mikey’.
- TC really likes Murph. Wanted to see him turn some dps today though but no opportunities.
- He’s been impressed by Izzy.
- Still up for grabs on the 4th and 5th starters.
- No player has been asking Terry about the state of the franchise, paychecks, etc.
- Terry kind of implying that Beltran will not be the everyday RF. ‘I’ll pick the spots. Certainly as we go thru the season, days off, etc.’ Looking at Hairston and Harris strongly for the 4th OF and days off for Beltran.
- Satisfied with what he’s seen of Thole so far and thinks Ike will have a huge year. Thinks he’s gonna be one of the best players in the NL real soon. Working on hitting the breaking ball.
- Reyes is in incredible shape. Supposedly, Reyes’ trainer told that to Francesa too.
- Thinks Pelf is taking the role of stepping up very seriously. Meanwhile, Collins said they’re still talking about getting Johan back end of June.
- BP…they had a meeting today. 9 names on a list for 2 spots left. All have good arms.
- Francesa commented that Terry painted a very optimistic pitcture. Better than one would think.
stickguy
3/3/2011-5:22pm at 5:22 pm (UTC -4)
I think you made a typo. Should be 8 guys for 2 spots, and Ollie still hanging around.
I refuse to consider him an actual candidate.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-6:19pm at 6:19 pm (UTC -4)
LOL….
gategem
3/3/2011-6:40pm at 6:40 pm (UTC -4)
In an effort bring the tone of my posts to fully represent my new Avatar I answer your statement about Ollie (“I refuse to consider him an actual candidate.”) as follows:
Did you not see or hear of Ollie’s performance today. He was magnificent and cemented his spot in the Mets rotation. There is no reason to not believe Ollie will win at least 18 games this year as he and Castillo lead the Mets to a championship season. The Mets will win between 110 to 120 games this year. Anyone that predicts less wins is a negative nanny or whatever term Kong uses to refer to them. LOL
stickguy
3/3/2011-8:08pm at 8:08 pm (UTC -4)
back on your meds sunny. It’s getting scary.
stickguy
3/3/2011-5:26pm at 5:26 pm (UTC -4)
and for those who wonder why it sucks being a Met fan in the Philly media market, today’s headline on the sports page about the meaningless ST game?
“World Series Preview?”
the philly people are making Yankee fans seem realistic and mellow these days!
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
I hate Philly. Next to the Mets making the post season, my fondest dream for this year is Philly imploding – and not because of injuries, just because……
hazmet
3/3/2011-8:16pm at 8:16 pm (UTC -4)
See more Jose signing talk so what the heck might as well weigh in as Jose has been my favorite current Met since making the bigs.
First: No I don’t extend him now. Sorry, not with his injury history – no way no how. And I Love, capital L, Love Jose. Just not a wise investment till you know he stays healthy. Which, I do believe he’ll do. But he’s gotta prove it.
Second: Why they will resign him after the season. As commented by the community they’ll have significant cash coming off the books and that can offset the signing. More importantly, there’s no way they let him walk if he puts up a great year because it would lower the value of the club by losing a player of that caliber since it would move them further away from being a contender. And there’s no way they don’t spend enough and end up making their franchise value drop from the near $900M value. They go too cheap on the roster and the club value drops and that’s one thing they will not do. And it’s also one thing MLB won’t want to see happen since devalued franchises in big markets devalue the entire league. Thereby, Jose produces. Jose will get paid and Jose will stay in Blue & Orange.
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-8:51pm at 8:51 pm (UTC -4)
I wish I had your confidence but I just don’t.
I can envision a handful of scenarios from the Wilpons still hanging onto ownership to bankruptcy to selling outright to new owners, etc. where Reyes is not resigned. And to boot they’ll use the excuse ‘we’d rather not spend that money on one player’, then turn around and not spend the money at all.
I agree with everything you’re saying from a common sense standpoint of not lowering the value of the club and contention but I’m just not sure if common sense will prevail.
stickguy
3/3/2011-8:54pm at 8:54 pm (UTC -4)
if they dont spend it on him, i don’t see it getting spent on another 1 guy. maybe they pocket 30mill, and spread 20 over 4 guys?
njstuckintx
3/3/2011-8:59pm at 8:59 pm (UTC -4)
And at the end of the day, it comes down to dollars. The players do not have the allegiance to their clubs like they did in days past. If Philly or the RedSox or Houston or LA or someone comes in with an extra year or something, Jose is going to consider it.
“LA is going to give me X+ a little more and I get to live in LA?” No way Jose (pun intended) does not consider that. Yes, NY is a Mecca for baseball, but LA is no slouch. You can insert Boston in there as well. Even Philly. Even St. Loo if they lose out on Pujols.
And also, Jose and his agent have to discuss the mess that the ownership is in.
I guess, to sum up what I’m horribly communicating here, the main colors that are keeping Reyes in NY are not Blue and Orange, but rather GREEN. Lots and lots of green.
stickguy
3/3/2011-8:53pm at 8:53 pm (UTC -4)
Am I the only person that thinks Reyes’ “injury history” is a big, overblown, red herring?
he came up extremely young, and had some hammy/ankle issues early on. Once he matured, and learned the right way to stretch, he became an iron man. 4 straight years of all day, every day.
2009. the horribly misdiagnosed hammy tendon issue, which eventually was figured out and fixed. Nothing chronic, nothing that was a worry going forward. And he proved in 2009 thru now that it was a non-issue.
The thyroid? not an injury.
so that leaves an oblique pull last year (that again, if he had been given 15 days to rest, probably doesn’t linger). But again, by year end, seemed to be fully healed.
and he looks fantastic right now. Quick, no lingering issues, no red flags, and he is all of 27.
He is no more an injury risk than anyone else in MLB, and less than most.
njstuckintx
3/3/2011-9:01pm at 9:01 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you.
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:01pm at 9:01 pm (UTC -4)
Would you rather them say lack of performance for 2 years?
metsfan4decades
3/3/2011-9:18pm at 9:18 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you too on this. I’m so not concerned that I wanted them to extend him end of last season.
hazmet
3/3/2011-9:23pm at 9:23 pm (UTC -4)
I hear you and I too have preached the fallacy that Jose is injury prone based on his 4 consecutive injury free years. But, missing time whether it’s a hammy or an oblique is still missing time the past 2 years. Yes, he should be past the chronic injuries but if they sat him out till he was healed like they should have last year with the oblique he would have probably only have been in around 115 games. OK factor the thyroid his games are back up. I think the injury issue may be a convenient excuse for both sides not to talk until after the year. For Jose, he basically gave them a discount on the contract he’s currently finishing – until you factor the injuries – so in his mind he may be thinking I want to test the max value on the market regardless. For the Mets they’re not going to want to invest now anyway till after the season so they can state they want to see him injury free before investing. In either case I think the money will be there to lock him up after the year.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-9:27pm at 9:27 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, having significant injury issues four years of your eight year career is definitely a big, fat, irrelevant red herring.
It’s fun to live in the Land of Make Believe!!
kingman 26
3/3/2011-9:31pm at 9:31 pm (UTC -4)
2003–111 games (majors and minors)
2004–63 games (majors and minors)
2005–161 games
2006–153 games (several missed due to moronic, unnecessary head-first slide into first base)
2007–160 games
2008–159 games
2009–36 games
2010–133 games
A player whose injury history is a “big, overblown, red herring?”
Uh, no.
hazmet
3/3/2011-9:40pm at 9:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I don’t see it. You know I’m a huge Reyes fan and I’m even hesitant until we see what this year brings. I just can’t see justifying large coin for him till we see if he stays healthy – too much risk when also considering we have a $25M pitcher on the DL too.
Also, shhh, the CBA’s expiring – god forbid a strike. But I’ve periodically flagged that the past 2 years as to why they may not look to extend certain players if things go south on CBA negotiations. Why commit money to lock up a guy when there may not be a season in the first year of that extension.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-9:45pm at 9:45 pm (UTC -4)
I really do wish that Jose proves me so very wrong, but the fact is that injuries/health issues have significantly affected half of the 8 years of his MLB career.
Might he remain healthy and play 155 games every year for the next 5 years? Possible, sure.
But is he “no more an injury risk than anyone else in MLB, and less than most”??
No way; not based on factual history.
I love this team, but we have another LOOOOONG year ahead of us.
At least we will see more hustling young players.
If FMart keeps it up, maybe we see him in RF by mid-season.
hazmet
3/3/2011-9:49pm at 9:49 pm (UTC -4)
Different topic: Have you ever heard of Papamichael World Group or PWG?
kingman 26
3/3/2011-10:04pm at 10:04 pm (UTC -4)
Heard of them, but really know very little about them…what are they like?
Always looking for new music….
hazmet
3/3/2011-10:08pm at 10:08 pm (UTC -4)
Jazz, Fusion, Rock. Anthony’s one of my buddies from college. He’s a beast. He just did a gig with Tony Rich Project and has a new album he’s finising for release later this year. He’s got a nice website if you google him. He’s as good a person as he is a beast of a player. Check him out you may like him.
Thanks for indulging the question.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-10:28pm at 10:28 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting…will make a point of checking them out.
Thanks for bringing them to my attention.
stickguy
3/3/2011-10:19pm at 10:19 pm (UTC -4)
I simply look at it that Jose is healthy now, and has no damaged “parts” to worry about.
so by injury prone, I look at it in future terms, as in prone to future injury.
and there really is nothing to say that he will be.
and frankly, I don’t care about some tight hammys when he was 20. Irrelevant, once he played FT for 4 straight years.
you want injury prone? Beltran is. Utley is now. Rollins is now.
TRS86
3/3/2011-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
Beltran is not injury prone. He is injured. Big difference. LOL.
Before this current injury Beltran had played 8 years in a row of 140+ games.
stickguy
3/3/2011-10:57pm at 10:57 pm (UTC -4)
thank you for making my point,
He is PRONE to be HURT in the future. because he is damaged goods.
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:51pm at 9:51 pm (UTC -4)
I am on both sides of this debate. I too see no reason for the Mets or Reyes to have signed the extension yet. The 133 games last year, have to wonder how many he would have missed if his injury was managed correctly?
hazmet
3/3/2011-10:00pm at 10:00 pm (UTC -4)
It is truly vexing. Reyes may be my third favorite Met behind Seaver & Straw. I don’t know why sometimes but his skill set is just so unique when healthy. And there it is “when healthy”. It should be his middle name whether it’s fair or not. It pains me to have this position that I’d wait to see what plays out this year but I just don’t see it as good business to do something now or before years end.
TRS86
3/3/2011-10:04pm at 10:04 pm (UTC -4)
133 games and a willingness to play when he really shouldn’t have last year is at least something.
Damn Manuel had him out there batting RH vs RH because he was too injured to swing LH. Yeah, you can get better that way.
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:57pm at 9:57 pm (UTC -4)
I think Barry Larkin is a no doubt HOF but look at his games history. I wonder how Jose’s games played compares to MOST SS over the course of time. Obviously Jeter has him beat but how about others?
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:58pm at 9:58 pm (UTC -4)
Rollins has now started to break down but before that he was consistent.
TRS86
3/3/2011-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
Orlando Cabrera has had his issues.
stickguy
3/3/2011-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
rollins played 45 fewer games last year than reyes did. And even before than when he was healthy enough to play a full season, he still sucked.
man, 2007 really sticks out as a total outlier year for him. And big surprise, he was 28!
Wright is due for an MVP year if he moves up on the plate, and starts protecting with 2 strikes again. Really hoping hudgens gets him straightened out.
kingman 26
3/3/2011-10:05pm at 10:05 pm (UTC -4)
Larkin is a really, really great analogy and one which makes one feel optmistic.
He got hurt again and again and kept coming back strong.
TRS86
3/3/2011-10:08pm at 10:08 pm (UTC -4)
Most underrated SS of all-time.
hazmet
3/3/2011-10:11pm at 10:11 pm (UTC -4)
Except I will never forgive him for not agreeing to the trade to the Mets late in his career when we could have used him. But yes, very underrated.
TRS86
3/3/2011-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t fault him for wanting to stay with the Reds his entire career.
hazmet
3/3/2011-8:27pm at 8:27 pm (UTC -4)
I know Ralph is an icon and I too treasure him but I think the combination of his speech impediment and my slowly losing my hearing has him sounding like Boomhauer from King of the Hill.
hazmet
3/3/2011-9:32pm at 9:32 pm (UTC -4)
On a seperate note, to change the beat: Loved the way Duda played the wall in Leftfield today. Also F-Mart’s had a very nice spring so far. Dare I say we move Bay and Carlos is gone and by the end of the year it will be Duda in LF, Pagan in CF, and Martinez in RF? That’s an awful lot of “dare” to fathom but what the heck it’s Spring Training.
TRS86
3/3/2011-10:09pm at 10:09 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, yeah I don’t see Bay going anywhere.
hazmet
3/3/2011-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for playing. That was one of my mischevious posts to invoke a reaction
stickguy
3/3/2011-10:12pm at 10:12 pm (UTC -4)
I would be happy to sign up for your plan. But like Real, not sure getting rid of bay will be that easy.
but, I suppose if he has a big first have, they might find a team missing a big bat for the playoff push? Assuming, of course, it isn’t the mets doing the looking.
hazmet
3/3/2011-10:14pm at 10:14 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, that’s my season’s done go all young as soon as possible scenarios.
stickguy
3/3/2011-10:21pm at 10:21 pm (UTC -4)
I actually think that is something Alderson will have no problem doing. Unlike in past years where Omar (whether him, or the owners) never would.
and, if attendance sucks again this year, then frankly, what the hell do they have to lose? Will fewer people come out if they replace bay with duda?
metsfan4decades
3/4/2011-12:09am at 12:09 am (UTC -4)
I don’t often read here but I couldn’t resist. Over at fangraphs, they posted their team preview of the Phillies:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/team-preview-philadelphia-phillies/
He makes some points that many of us have made. Mainly, they’ve got their eggs all in one basket and if something goes wrong:
‘The Phillies have a chance to be really good. However, there are enough risks here that the rails could also completely come off, and there are quite a few scenarios where they end up on the outside looking in during October. They’ve bet big on a bunch of guys with health risks and a few guys with age-related questions. They need to win most of those gambles. If they do, they’re going to be nearly impossible to beat. If they don’t, this team could end up being a major disappointment. ‘
stickguy
3/4/2011-12:21am at 12:21 am (UTC -4)
I just read the piece you pasted, but that is pretty much what I have been saying all along about them (and of course, hoping!)