Over the past month and I half I have been inundated with the same question over and over again. ” Why did you put so and so at number blah blah blah ? ” And I generally would answer ” Leave me alone – I’m trying to sleep !!” ( Just kidding) Did I agree with the way the list came out ? For the most part yes , but I did have some head scratching moments such as Al Leiter being at number 12 or Tommie Agee slotted at number 33. The other thing that irked me was the absence of some players such as Doug Flynn, Willie Mays,and Richie Ashburn.
When I put out the paramaters of this list I stated the player did not have to be a sabermetric superstar. I wanted to get the players who made a impact on the fans, and I think this series accomplished that.
So if you were wondering how I would have ranked the top 50 Mets of all time, well wonder no more.
50. Second Baseman, Doug Flynn
49. Outfielder, Bernard Gilkey ( that ’96 season alone makes him immortal !)
48. Second Baseman, Ron Hunt
47. Starting Pitcher, Al Leiter
46.Relief Pitcher, Skip Lockwood
45. Third Baseman, Robin Ventura
44. Center Fielder, Lenny Dykstra
43. First Baseman, John Milner
42. Outfielder/ Home Run Hitter, Dave Kingman
41. Catcher, Todd Hundley
40. Right Fielder, Ron Swoboda
39. Starting Pitcher, Craig Swan
38. Outfielder Richie Ashburn
37. Outfielder, Lee Mazzilli
36. Third Baseman, Ray Knight
35. Starting Pitcher, David Cone
34. First Baseman, Don Clendennon
33. Third Baseman, Howard Johnson
32. Starting Pitcher, Bobby Ojeda
31. Catcher John Stearns
30. Second Baseman, Wally Backman
29. Reliever, Roger McDowell
28. Reliever, John Franco
27. Center Fielder, Willie Mays ( Yes I know he was past his prime but he is still a legend !)
26. Shortstop, Bud Harrelson
25. Reliever, Jesse Orosco
24. Starting Pitcher, Ron Darling
23. First Base Man, John Olerud
22. Starting Pitcher, Sid Fernandez
21. Center Fielder, Carlos Beltran
20. Starting Pitcher, Jon Matlack
19. Second Baseman, Edgardo Alfonzo
18. Center Fielder, Tommie Agee
17. Reliever, Tug McGraw
16. Center Fielder, Mookie Wilson
15. Catcher, Gary Carter
14. Starting Pitcher, Johan Santana
13. Manager, Davey Johnson
12. First Baseman, Ed Kranepool
11. Catcher, Jerry Grote
10. Left Fielder, Cleon Jones
09. Shortstop, Jose Reyes
08. Starting Pitcher, Jerry Koosman
07. Thrid Baseman, David Wright
06. Right Fielder, Rusty Staub ( Hey I’m trying to be objective !!!)
05. Starting Pitcher, Dwight Gooden
04. Right Fielder, Darryl Strawberry
03. Catcher, Mike Piazza
02. First Baseman, Keith Hernandez
01. Starting Pitcher, Tom Seaver ( Of Course !)
I think the biggest controversy about my list is that I omitted Nolan Ryan. Although I love and respect Nolan, I feel that like Amos Otis, he was never long enough to have proved he would have been a all time Met. I know I will take a bit of heat of where I ranked certain ” beloved” players such as Robin Ventura and Bobby Ojeda , but this in my opinion how it should have shook out. If you disagree feel free to tell me why – This is a exercise in constructive debate ( even though I am right !!).
And with that said …. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today includes:
Mets bullpen coach from ’05-’08, Guy Conti is 69 (1942).
Mets middle reliever from the ’01 season, C.J Nitkowski is 28 (1973).
And while you are hoping that the end is near for Oliver Perez, just remember that there are just 23 Doug Flynn days to go until the Mets play their season opener against the Florida Marlins in Miami, and just 30 Days to go until the Mets play their home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn is desperately hoping that Oliver Perez is released . He thinks that I will lay off him and make Ollie the butt of my jokes !!
47 comments
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Hard to argue with anyone’s list overall as you did stipulate up front our lists could be subjective.
I knew I’d see Le Grand Orange pretty high up on your list.
I see you have Keith coming in at #2, as did I.
njstuckintx
3/9/2011-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
I agree with Keith in the #2 spot. Piazza was the best hitter the Mets have had, but Keith changed the franchise. The attitude alone + the WS in 86 + the game altering Defense he played… I’m still a little ticked he’s only a borderline HOFer.
Solid list, solid series. Thanks for the hard work you’ve done. Do they have an ESPY awards for bloggers? The Bloggies? The Bloscars?
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
Agree about this series. I looked forward to the new edition every morning.
Also agree about Keith and the HOF. Part of the problem is the HR factor. I read an article not too long ago that said the HOF committee generally only votes for X amount of players from each decade. They specifically mentioned Keith saying he has the bad luck to have played during an era with tons of ‘extra special players’, and compared him to other 1st baseman of that era. I don’t remember all the details now but they listed where Keith fell stats wise, with other players.
njstuckintx
3/9/2011-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
I guess the long ball is sexy. Is not the ‘Stache sexy as well??? Can we not have Magnum PI help out of this?!?!
Seriously though, I know most here agree with me, but his average, his WS ring and game changing D should count for something. I’ve never felt that the HOF should be purely stat based. Seriously, anytime people talk about the best 1B players of all time, Keith is #1 (or close enough) Defensive 1B of all time. ALL TIME. How that alone doesn’t get him into the HOF is beyond me. It’s not like he was the best defensive 1B, yet hit like Raffy Santana either.
kingman 26
3/9/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
I largely agree, and don’t forget he has TWO rings as a central part of two different champions….I think the main problem is his shortened career…had he put up another 3-4 years like 1979-1987, he would be in the Hall.
But, his clear leadership and maybe being the best fielding 1B ever should have more weight.
I would vote for him.
But I am definitely biased on this issue.
njstuckintx
3/9/2011-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
We all have no argument with Koufax being in the HOF, yet in today’s mentality, he’d be a tough sell, because he didn’t have the longevity. Not saying Keith was on Koufax’s level, but you get my point.
TRS86
3/9/2011-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I can understand both sides of this issue. The HOF veterans committee can factor in leadership much more than the common voter can IMO.
kingman 26
3/9/2011-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, to me, this is a classic issue where both sides have great arguments.
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Saw this over on Patrick Flood’s blog, who has Keith coming in at #8:
‘Hernandez played what is considered an offensive position. So his defensive brilliance somehow has lost its importance and luster. But a lot of outs happen at first base . . . Hernandez was the type of player who impressed observers the more they saw him play. His contributions weren’t always reflected in the box score. Once Tim McCarver saw Hernandez play regularly, he offered this assessment: “No player I’ve played with or against — or watched, for that matter — does more to help his team win.”
Marty Noble mets.com
********************************************************************************
We need more Keiths on this current team.
njstuckintx
3/9/2011-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Amen to that, sister!
stickguy
3/9/2011-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
but did ever ever do 2 rail flips in the same week?
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
3…it was 3 rail flips!
kistics
3/9/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
I wonder where Reyes would rank in Kingman’s list..
kingman 26
3/9/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I think he was 7th or 8th; definitely top ten where he belongs (even though it is largely based on three years).
Hey, I am well aware of his entire Met career.
Some folks here seem to forget the last two years though….
TRS86
3/9/2011-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
I can’t really damn him for getting injured in 2009. His lack of ability to take a walk when he came back last year was concerning but perhaps more indicative of the lack of structure or plan from the management.
I see no reason that he would sharply decline from the OBP of the 3 years prior. It’s not like his hits were mostly IF singles.
stickguy
3/9/2011-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
once he got back in the groove his OBP at least was close to his normal levels.
At his age, with a track record over 2500 PAs to work from, I just don’t think he has lost his ability to get on base. if anything, he will tick that up a bit this year (barring of course as always another injury, which I am not expecting).
Jose (playing, not being traded) is pretty far down my list of concerns for the mets at the moment. I expect him to play pretty much every day, and put up very good numbers.
Oh, and last year while his walks were down a little, his slg% was actually very high for him, and his HRs at a career high pace over the last 2/3 of the season).
Just keep coming back to how often guys with this kind of talent put up a monster couple years right around this point of their career (age/service). And if you want a perfect example, see: Rollins-2007!
kistics
3/9/2011-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
His SLG % up because Jerry put him to bat 3rd…. All the credit to Jerry..
stickguy
3/9/2011-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Ah, no. It actually went up when he moved back to lead off, and got his stroke back!
kistics
3/9/2011-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Jose gettin’ his stroke back….
kistics
3/9/2011-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
How about trading Luis to the Phillies? LOL
stickguy
3/9/2011-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
He might actually get 3-5 HRs playing in that place.
OK, 2.
kistics
3/9/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
LOL that would be very interesting.
Is the Philly nation really concerned?
stickguy
3/9/2011-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
yes and no.
They are getting very worried about Utley, and some do recognize that they will miss werth.
but every time they get bad news, they just come right back to the “4 aces”, and how it doesn’t matter that the offense tailed off significantly the last 2 years, and that it looks like it will dip again.
with that rotation, they figure 100 wins is a guarantee, even playing the AAA position guys. Runs? Where we are going, we don’t need no stinking runs!
Now, if you want the panic to start, have oswalt or (even better) Lee go down injured and that will get them going!
kistics
3/9/2011-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
I still think they will win the division, but it’s not going to be an easy task without Utley (and struggling Brown to some degree). Bravos are a pretty good team. And if ALL of Mets stay healthy, they can be in the mix too.
TRS86
3/9/2011-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Keep in mind they could search for a 3B instead of a 2B, moving Placebo over.
kistics
3/9/2011-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Good Point. I wonder if they can pick up Emaus off the waivers if he’s not with the Mets.
rustyjr
3/9/2011-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Ok back to my list – agree / disagree ?
stickguy
3/9/2011-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
it was wonderful, superb, stupendous. And more.
well thought out and crafted with care.
and as with any subjective ranking, I might change a few, but yours is certainly defend-able to the death.
kingman 26
3/9/2011-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Personally, I would have number 42 a few slots higher.
But that’s just me.
My top three was in the same order as you, and as expected, I largely agree with your rankings.
But for me, Davey J and Gil H are top ten.
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
I had Davey and Gil on my list as well, but not in the top 10.
kistics
3/9/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Thought your #1 was Ollie….
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Wait…the Yankees are being sued over a supposed deal they made to Chapman and reneged on? hahahahaha
Saw the story over on MLBTR but not much detail.
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Oh wait a minute….maybe Chapman’s rep is being sued for not revealing the Yankee offer to him. Although the Yankees claimed they made no such offer.
kistics
3/9/2011-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
He would be a nice addition to the Yanks BP now…
TRS86
3/9/2011-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Actually he would most likely be starting for the Yanks.
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Ted Berg has a post up poking fun at the New York Post and all the articles he missed while down at ST. He calls it: NY Post Fear Index
http://www.tedquarters.net/2011/03/09/new-york-post-fear-index/
The last one caught my eye:
OH MY GOD WE’RE HAVING A FIRE… sale: I will never hear the term “fire sale” again without thinking of Tobias Funke. Evacuate all of the schoolchildren! That said, I don’t know a lot about business and I don’t have a ton of inside information or anything about the Wilpons’ pending lawsuit and their finances. I’m not eager to get too deep into this, lest I sound like a shill. But everything I understand suggests that most of the media coverage — and basically all the sports-media coverage — entirely fails to grasp any of the nuance involved. Here, the thesis — citing more “executives” — is: We know the Mets have money problems, so we should expect them to cut salary down to the $70 million small-market team range. Seems like the brushstrokes are too broad. Also, my understanding is the whole point of seeking another part-owner is so the Mets’ finances are not impacted by the Wilpons’ troubles. Fear factor: 3 out of 10.
******************************
Ted Berg…..the voice of reason.
And sometimes just too funny.
kistics
3/9/2011-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Are you SRT?
stickguy
3/9/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
you’re not supposed to know that. she is undercover.
kistics
3/9/2011-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
oh… oops.
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, that’s me.
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! MMO ran a contest last week to win a free CD/DVD Blu-Ray set of Billy Joel: Live At Shea Stadium. Had to answer 5 questions correctly (4 were Met questions, last one was what song did the Beatles open up with at their first concert at Shea?)
All those who answered correctly would go into a random drawing. Joe D emailed me that I won. Dang…I never win anything. Maybe I should go out and buy a lottery ticket.
kingman 26
3/9/2011-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
What WAS the Beatles song??
Hard Day’s Night?
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
It was Twist and Shout. I almost went with ‘I Want To Hold Your Hand’.
hazmet
3/9/2011-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
No that was Ollie’s song last night.
metsfan4decades
3/9/2011-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Poor Oliver. It’s his last Swan Song.
I’ve read where his teammates don’t come close to having the opinion of him that many of the fans do. Then again, I wonder if they believe he’s going to be released too and thereby can afford to be a little charitable in the clubhouse with him.
stickguy
3/9/2011-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
I suspect that the players are in their own little world, and for the most part, don’t understand/care about the fans. These are a bunch of very rich guys that spend all their time together, and I doubt any of us really understand their life style!
Not really much different than the weird world of the big players on wall street.
and any time you get so used to being in that alternate reality universe, perspectives can get warped!
but in this case, they probably do feel he is a big useless dopeass, but since he is one of them, they support him anyway.
and who knows, in person, he might be the sweetest fella to hang out with!
gategem
3/11/2011-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
Rusty all that needs to be said is “Thank you very much for a job superbly done.”