" Goodbye and good riddance !!!"
Yes , yesterday will be always be known as a day of celebration for Mets fans . To paraphrase that all knowing bad ass- Darth Vader in the first Star Wars movie ” First we have seen the last of “Slappy” Castillo and now we have seen the end of Ollie Perez !!”
I know what you are probably saying to yourselves right now , should I be so hard on Ollie ? Well in my opinion, any player that signs a contracts of that magnitude (that foreboding 3 year 36 million dollar monstrosity of a deal that Omar Minaya dished out after failing to sign Derek Lowe) , and only manage to earn three wins in the duration of that contract – well Ollie gets no sympathy from me. If both Oliver and his agent , Scott Boras were smart they should have accepted the demotion to the minor so that Ollie could fix his mechanics. It might have even earned him both the support and sympathy of us Mets fans. In the past we have stuck by guys who couldn’t buy a win such as Anthony Young and Steve Traschel, but these men were humble in comparison to Oliver’s perceived selfishness. What did Ollie have to prove ? He was able to finally catch the carrot that was being dangled in front of his face. What incentives did he need to care anymore ? Obviously when he came into camp out of shape back in spring of ’09 this was a bad omen of things to come. Whether it was his inactivity during the ’09 World Baseball Classic that year, which spawned the phantom knee injury which sidelined him for a few months late in that season . Or last year when it seemed like he was motivated enough to come into camp in great shape ( well physically – mentally we will never be sure), but when your fastball can barely touch 87 MPH and your off speed pitched will never be compared to that of Tom Glavine – well you know you’re in for a long season.
There has been allegations levied in the comments section of this blog – as well as in others that speculate that Ollie might have been using P.E.Ds. I have to disagree with that notion. I think that Ollie’s problem was he lacked motivation. He is now set for life without ever having to wonder where his next meal will come from, how he will pay for his mortgage or if he will ever be able to afford college for his children. Once you lose motivation you lose your ability to focus, and lets face it a whole bottle of Ritalin won’t help Ollie at this point.
I know I have not been this brutal to Luis Castillo, but in my opinion even though he seemed to be unhappy, Luis always seemed to want to play – even after it was apparent that his body was beginning to betray him. In the case of Ollie – it seemed like he was content to ride the pine until his contract expired.
All I know is yes, Ollie will sign on with another team, Maybe the Yankees or the Phillies – possibly the Cardinals ( where Dave Duncan can raise him like Lazarus from the dead). But I feel that in the end Ollie ended up committing career suicide.
All I know is if I ever make a list of the top 25 most hated, detested, disliked Mets players of all time …. Well lets just say Ollie will probably be in the top five.
And with that said … HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today include :
Mets third base coach from the dreaded Art Howe years of ’02-’04, Matt Galante is 67 (1944).
Mets middle reliever from the ’81 season, Danny Boitano is 58 (1953).He was traded along with beloved Mets second baseman, Doug Flynn to the Texas Rangers for pitcher, Jim Kern. Kern would never pitch a single inning for the Mets organization.
Today would have been Mets relief pitcher from the ’97 season, Cory Lidle’s 39th birthday (1972) . He died tragically when he accidently crashed the plain he was co piloting into a high rise apartment building in Manhattan in October of ’06.
Starting pitcher from the ’03 season, Jeremy Griffiths is 33 (1978).
Middle reliever from ’07-’08, Joe Smith is 27 (1984).
The Mets first baseman for the foreseeable future ( and beyond ? ), Ike Davis is 24 (1987).If this kid continues to hit and field like we know he is capable of – well then he could be the second coming of John Olerud.
New York Mets purchased s pitcher, Carl Willey from the Milwaukee Braves on March 22, 1963.
The New York Mets traded reserve catcher, Ike Hampton to the California Angels for middle reliever, Ken Sanders on March 22, 1975.
The New York Mets traded minor league infielder, Hector Ramirez to the Baltimore Orioles for utility infielder,Manny Alexander and minor league infielder, Scott McClain on March 22, 1997.
The New York Mets released middle reliever, Tom Martin on March 22, 2009.
And while we wait ( and hope ) for Oliver Perez to sign with the New York Yankees, just remember that there are just 10 Rusty Staub Days to go until the Mets open the 2011 season against the Florida Marlins in Miami, and only 17 days until the Mets 2011 home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn dreams that he could have the power to fly – but them we all know that hydrogen fueled dirageables went out after the Hindenberg disaster !!!
211 comments
kingman 26
3/22/2011-8:13am at 8:13 am (UTC -4)
Really well-said my friend.
Agreed all around.
I speculate on the PED issue only because it all seems so mystifying; just looking for a reason for his monumental failures.
But the reality is probably that Ollie is just a lazy, selfish, childish idiot.
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think PEDs for Ollie either. Even if he was on them, do you think he’d be smart enough not to get caught?
kingman 26
3/22/2011-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
LOL! Good point.
ajgmets
3/22/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Wow, This hurts ED..
I almost totally agree with your take on our Mets version of the “Situation”.
The departure of these 2 “tumors” while costly financially can only benefit the mental well being of the organization as a whole. As I’ve been saying all spring (and for most of last season for that matter) the mere presence of the overpaid, aging, unproductive Castillo and the obviously incapable overpaid lefty in camp has been and would have continued to be both a a distraction and a drain on the club’s coaching/management resources.(Especially for a “Cash Strapped” team, you have to pay somebody to catch all those 80-83 MPH “fastballs” and hit grounders to the creaky backed and step slower infielder)
Not only were these 2 pariahs to the fan base, but the fact that younger more capable players were forced to the sidelines while these “contractual monkeys on the back of the franchise” were given every opportunity and then some to “prove” their worth, taking time away from the development of players like Emaus, Tejada, Luis Hernandez, Danny Murphy, Pat Misch and others. While it may seem trivial, the importance of young players getting the opportunity to play alongside established big leaguers, even in spring training, should never be under valued.
Here’s to hoping for a more settled balance of training camp and a fresh positive start to the 2011 season for both fains and ballclub alike.
On April 1 in Miami , I believe we’ll see Murph get a symbolic start at second base in recognition of his determination and perserverence in making the ball club which will be followed by rule 5 draftee Brad Emaus getting the bulk of the starts at 2nd in order to justify JP Ricciardi’s recommendation.
As the Mets sit at 13-12-2 for the spring following yesterday’s 4 run ninth, come from behind win against the Braves, Mets fans can finally exhale and start to view the “new regime’ a bit differently while pumping up the “Let’s Go Mets”! Volume..
Fred
3/22/2011-8:15am at 8:15 am (UTC -4)
I have to agree with you on Ollie. As it is, I have trouble sympathizing with anyone who makes $12 million who can’t do their job (not just Ollie, but Charlie Sheen, Lindsay Lohan, etc.). But in Ollie’s case, he never really seemed to care. He was our Carl Pavano, but even worse. The Wilpons never had the funds of the Steinbrenners, even before the Madoff ponzi implosion. Does Ollie have talent? Clearly or he wouldn’t have made it to the Big Leagues. But his refusal to be demoted last year was so selfish and arrogant that it had to hurt the team, not just on the field but in the clubhouse. Sure, today’s athletes are so scripted that no one is going to come out and say it like the ’86 Mets did when George Foster got the heave-ho. But I am certain that if you hooked the average Met player up to a polygraph, he’d have a hard time saying something positive about Ollie.
I also agree about Castillo. He was a winner in Florida and in Minnesota. The problem was that his legs were 75% of his game (great speed, great range). The other 25% was an excellent eye at the plate (which is why Luis was always at or near the top in OBP in his prime). Once his legs went, all that was left was a singles hitter who could draw a walk, but couldn’t run or field his position, and did not have the ability to field any other position. In today’s game, where you usually only carry 13 position players, the guys on the bench have to be able to be true utilitymen, backing up at least 3 positions on the field. I wish Castillo well. He always looked like he cared and he worked hard. Unfortunately, he’s at the end of the line of his career.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
Excellent comments….welcome aboard—please comment more!!
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-8:37am at 8:37 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think Met fans would have the disdain for Castillo they do if he wasn’t handed that 4 year 24 MIL contract. Then again, if it wasn’t for 4 years and/or 6 MIL per, he would be long gone.
Ollie……his problems go beyond not caring or not being in shape, IMO. While I agree whole heartedly that he should have accepted a minor league assignment to work on mechanics last year, I’m not sure even that would have helped.
I can’t help thinking that more than one person has tried to ‘fix’ Perez these past 2 seasons, Warthen included. I’d be curious to know if Warthen has any idea himself what the problem is, or if he just writing Perez off as being stubborn. Either way, I still can’t wrap my brain around where that velocity went and I’ll be very surprised if he does latches on with another organization and they manage to figure it out.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-8:45am at 8:45 am (UTC -4)
I don’t have disdain for either of them, or any current Mets players. They are who they are.
Warthen was never going to be able to fix Perez, he needs something different than he offers, whether or not you think Dan is a good coach.
Perez’s problems have always been mental, and they probably still are, he’s just unable to hide them as well once he lost velocity and can’t figure out how to get it back. It may even be disease-related; I have heard people suggest he shows symptoms of ADD, which would explain a lot.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
He shows the symptoms of being an ASS.
ADD—give me a break; he’s a moronic, selfish child.
Coming to camp out of shape after being given a 36-mil deal and refusing a trip to AAA have less than nothing to do with ADD.
He’s a jackass; plain and simple.
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
My biggest deal with perez was not accepting the minor league deal to improve himself and rejoin the roster when he was ready. He had NOTHING to lose in doing so and could have earned good pr in the process. I remember Gary CONTINUOUSLY bring up roy halladay who had accepted a similar proposition and yet this still did nothing to deter the delusional perez into thinking he could “still make it up here”. Im not mad necessarily that he signed the big contract because lets face it, none of us would turn down 12 million out of sheer honesty that we dont deserve it. I dont know how much boras had to do with his actions and decisions but the kid clearly needed help that he refused 5x to accept. For that reason, I feel no sympathy for him. He is up there with carl pavano as MLB’s greatest lottery winners….but at least carl has come back to be awesome
rustyjr
3/22/2011-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
You mean cliff lee right ?
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
at least cliff kicked butt in the post season….carl had what 2 games or so on that yankee contract
Ceetar
3/22/2011-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
he refused 5x? no no, they asked him once, and failed to convince him. And when they did send him down, they had him start despite intending to use him in relief. Is it any surprise he wasn’t good out of relief? He was probably never properly warmed up having never done it that fast.
As I said then, there is a BIG difference between asking a guy to go through a process to help the team, and wishing him away. Maybe if they had approached him after the first 8 starts, while he was still stretched out but struggling, and suggested he do some rehab type starts and work on things, he would’ve been more apt to agree rather than waiting until a month after they tossed him out of the rotation with absolutely no game plan for how or when they’d use him.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
What is your issue with Oliver Perez?
He was given a 36-million dollar contract and showed up to camp months later overweight and out of shape, got injured and never recovered.
Are you even aware of players like Rick Ankiel, who also lost their ability to pitch and worked tirelessly to EARN their money?
Or Steve Trachsel, a longtime major leaguer who accepted a minor league assignment and sacrificed for the team and IMPROVED?
When a team gives you a contract like he received, it is implicitly understood that you OWE the team being in shape, hard work, and the undying effort to succeed.
This is what makes a pro athlete at the highest level.
You are WRONG about Oliver Perez; endless repetition will never make your arguments logical, sensible, or correct.
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Sorry ceet, gotta agree with king here. The guy was as selfish as you can get for a pro athlete. The guy was flat out delusional…
There was no logicial reason to refuse a minor league assignment….none.
TRS86
3/22/2011-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Sure there was. It was a game of chicken trying to get released. Plain and simple. Boras saw the writing on the wall and hoped the old regime would release him.
stickguy
3/22/2011-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I agree, and said the same thing last year. Both these guys wanted to get released, and (especially Ollie) were doing nothing to avoid it.
MHO of course!
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
If I remember correctly, they asked him more than once and he never accepted. The only reason he was in a minor league game was his “knee injury”. When they should have approached him is splitting hairs imo, whenever they did it was because he was no longer effective. Regardless of when they did, he flat out refused to accept a low pressure situation to improve himself for the betterment of the team. That showed me everything I would ever need to know about him.
stickguy
3/22/2011-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I seem to remember there being some confusion (did they or didn’t they). Not sure we ever got a straight answer, but that was par for the course with that bunch. Not sure if they even knew what really happened!
Ceetar
3/22/2011-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
the reports were “Omar thinks he’ll decline so he hasn’t asked again” over and over. Perhaps they were false.
But he got injured. And the last two winters he spent a lot of time away from his family to do winter sessions and work out and try to get better, and if he was so selfish why didn’t he just accept the demotion and earn his money?
There was plenty of reason to decline the demotion, or he wouldn’t have decilned. He felt he could still contribute if put in the right situations, given the chance. At the time he hadn’t even been used much in weeks, so it’s not like he was freshly removed from failing and giving up bombs. All ballplayers have ups and downs, and when you micro manage every small sample size and say “look, you suck, get out of here” why would he accept the demotion? I don’t know that the Mets told him we want to work with you to get better, or just told him to get lost and figure it out. That’s sorta a rough way to go about it. Addidtionally, Manuel, being the worst manager in Mets history, had no idea what he was doing with the bullpen anyway. While Ollie was sitting there unused for two weeks, he wasn’t the only one. He didn’t use Elmer Dessens for an equally long stretch, so it’s not like the Mets would’ve been helped out by having another scrub up there.
regardless, its’ spring training, there’s a lot going on, and I want to talk about the Mets, not former Mets, so this is my last comment on this particular former Met unless he happens to sign with someone else and it’s worth discussing. (The Yankees already have Burnett, I doubt they’re serious about Ollie)
kingman 26
3/22/2011-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
LOL!
Not sure which is the highest level comedy here, but these are some gems:
“the last two winters he spent a lot of time away from his family to do winter sessions and work out and try to get better”
“There was plenty of reason to decline the demotion, or he wouldn’t have decilned”
“He didn’t use Elmer Dessens for an equally long stretch”—Hmmm, and how did Dessens pitch when he WAS used?
But this Ceetar might be your all-time classic Ceetar remark (OK, tied with “Mariano Rivera is overrated”):
“All ballplayers have ups and downs, and when you micro manage every small sample size…”
Yes, the stats I posted yesterday for his career, again cited below, are “micromanaging” a “small sample.”
Here’s a “small sample” which others might refer to as “two years”—
31 G
21 GS
3-9 record
112.1 IP
123 H
99 K
100 BB
21 HR
1.99 WHIP
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
I respect your opinion ceet. Manuel didnt play oliver for a whole month after the refusal to get demoted…while I agree he was one of the worst managers in mets history, I totally understood his point.
Im sure he “felt” he could still contribute but the fact is his outings got worse and worse. I just dont see ANY downside in accepting a minor league assignment for a while, let the heat cool off on you for a little bit and get good press at the same time then come back healthy. It was more than a small sample size imo, he has not been good since 2008…this all came to ahead in 2010. We have all seen the dip in velocity ever since that “knee” injury so that was not a surprise by any means. The only surprise there was is his refusal to accept a situation to truly do anything about it.
TRS86
3/22/2011-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I still can’t see why it seems no one sees to me the most obvious angle. He and Boras wanted the release. Period. It’s not like Boras thought, hey I am sure if he stays up and does not pitch he will eventually get better. They were playing a game of chicken and both groups had no intentions of giving. Ultimately it handicapped the Mets in a season that was already severely handicap to start with.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Some of us can see the obvious angle which you are 100% correct about TRS.
Quite clearly.
When a player has Boras as an agent, they are making a statement about their priorities.
Ollie cared about himself and himself only.
Prismo
3/22/2011-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
LOL and so it begins…
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Castillo-late-scratched-from-lineup.html
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
I just saw that. Laughed right out loud.
I’m sure there’s more to this story than printed here but thought to myself, ‘why am I not surprised’?
I truly believe that Castillo is just having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that in baseball years, he’s in the twilight of his career, heading towards finished.
stickguy
3/22/2011-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
I loved the comments. Seems like the Philly fans have really taken a shine to him!
Who knows if at this point he really wants to bother anymore. You could see him just saying screw it and doing nothing, unless he honestly thinks he will be able to (and wants to) play next year?
But even if he does, it should be pretty obvious that he will be reduced to one of those fringe guys hustling a ST invite, not getting a multi-year FA deal int he off season!
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t say he committed career suicide, but rather he retired early. Just so happened he continued to work after he won the proverbial lottery. How do you motivate someone who doesn’t need anything?
And yes, I’m joking with the above.
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
Oh, and I’m looking forward to the Mets actually having a full 25 man roster, vs. the 24 + Ollie.
fongy2
3/22/2011-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Thank you Ollie for coming out of no where to help us out greatly during the ’06 Playoff run. That said, THANK GOD the Oliver Perez chapter in Mets history is now compete. Now, we can really move on
in attempts to rebuild and quasi-compete. The whole Castillo/Perez thing went on far too long.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Hey Fong!
fongy2
3/22/2011-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Wassup Homey!……..I’m very, very busy and just haven’t had time
to chime in here. Actually have to hit the road in a few mins……..
Man, real life sucks!……”I shall return”…………………….
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
I read through every comment over on MLBTR on the rumor Heyman put out there concerning the Yankees thinking about taking a flyer on Perez.
Highly entertaining. I’m sorry but some Yankee fans deserve the perception most Met fans have of them. Some really think that the only reason the Mets released Perez is b/c he’s a cancer, they’re rebuilding and get this….they have faith a couple of minor league starts and he’ll be as good as new.
hahahaha – define ‘new’, guys. Perez was a head case and wild even when he pitched in the 90s.
TRS86
3/22/2011-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Lets not excuse the Mets from creating this mess either. Ollie (Boras) played a game of chicken with the Mets. There is no doubt that Boras saw that Ollie was not going to be given a true chance in NY again by the fans or even the FO. His time had come and gone. Most likely Boras thought the best case would be for the mentally weak Ollie to get released and pursue other options like KC or Pittsburgh part II. So when Ollie “refused” to go down to the minors he was basically asking to be released and the Mets refused to do so, opting to play with 24 instead.
Aren’t we glad that not only Omar is no longer running the show but it seems the Wilpons may have wisened up as well.
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed real…but then again, we dont know 100% for sure if his refusal was a work of boras or just oliver being delusional and thinking he could “pitch his way out of his slump”. The mets should have shown more cojones than they did….oliver\boras called their bluff in a sense but also consider the nebula of negitivity around the FO during that time after 2 collapses, 2009 and the way 2010 was unfolding….
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
plus who the heck wants to drive around in bus? I think it was a combination of delusional player and megalomaniac of an agent thinking he can walk on water and drop deuces of potpourri in the porcelain altar. “Hey look, I’m Scott Boras… And for my next trick, I’ll help destroy Ollie’s career and yet somehow get him a 2 year, 12 mil. dollar deal from someone!” Uff da…
TRS86
3/22/2011-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
I seriously think that Boras, like him or not a very smart man, had the foresight to realize Ollie was DONE in NY and the best thing for his client was to get released.
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Agreed in that respect. Boras is on the level of genius as the russian dude that owns the nets.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
How is he a genius?
He is just greedier than other agents, and able to get excessive deals in some cases.
A bunch of guys have fired and/or publicly rebuked him.
He’s no genius; he just is selfish and egotistical enough to do what others have the decency not to do. Some agents care about the welfare of the game, and don’t go to the trouble of printing bound volumes of comical exaggerations of their clients’ achievements.
Perfect example–Reyes’ extension several years back. Jose wanted security, so he signed a very fair extension with the Mets. His agent publicly stated that Jose wanted security and was willing to leave some money on the table as the overall dollars were great, he liked the Mets and they had treated him well, etc.
Boras is just a vile and greedy pig.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I totally agree with NJTX on this.
TRS86
3/22/2011-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I think Ollie completely trusted Boras and anything baseball related like this was under his advisement. Think about it, if you were Ollie wouldn’t you listen to everything he had to say? The guy got you 36M.
However, if nothing else if not for Ollie’s struggles who knows if our leadership from owner all the way down would be any different today?
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I think ollie was the icing on the cake…omar was on his way out ever since 2008…2009 put him one foot out of the door and 2010 put the foot on his a$$
TRS86
3/22/2011-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I think there were a few things to seal the deal.
One lack of activity in the summers made the players doubt the regime and feel like they were on an island. Players are not always able to see the likelihood that you are not going to compete that year regardless of trades (2009, 2010).
Two the lack of production from Ollie, Castillo and Bay.
Three the continuing press nightmares.
Four Fmart.
Mr North Jersey
3/22/2011-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
“we dont know 100% for sure if his refusal was a work of boras”
I agree unless you can show me a quote or something this idea of this being a work of Boras is an educated guess but still a guess nonetheless.
stickguy
3/22/2011-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
It is a little amusing though that so much time and effort is going into discussing Ollie this spring. Considering he was marginal to the team at best (performance wise), since he was just another stiff fighting for the last man in the pen job.
Sure, it meant a lot to the mental state of the fans, but in practical (W/L) terms, probably irrelevant! Castillo going has a lot better chance of making a real difference to the season, and certainly the future (if they develop a different useful player out of the deal).
The horrible mismanagement of the pen last year (by Omar and Jerry) did prove 1 thing though. A 7 man pen is really not needed, if you have anything passing for a reliable rotation. Think of how many long stretches there were where 1 guy never pitched, and another guy got in 1 game a week, when they had Ollie and Mejia (were they there together?)
In any case, they always seemed to have a couple guys rotting away. Might as well have an extra man on the bench instead.
TRS86
3/22/2011-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
If you could rely on Carrasco for both long relief and as a potential RH guy you could most likely get rid of the Misch role. Not sure with Young and Cap in the rotation if they would do that.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
It depends how they intend to use the pen I guess. Carrasco has been stretched out some, pitched 3innings the other day, and has been bunting with the starters, which means basically nothing, but it must at least be a hint that they’re considering a situation where he might hold a bat.
I think Misch is a bum and can’t wait until they release him.
TRS86
3/22/2011-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
That bum Misch has done nothing but produce league average results in every situation the Mets have put him in. Expecting greatness from him would be foolish. However, expecting around a 4.00 ERA with the ability to pitch from the pen, spot start or go to AAA without questions…
TRS86
3/22/2011-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
It amazes me how you can defend a guy like Ollie and call Misch a bum.
Dirtysanchez
3/22/2011-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
LMAO…good point
ajgmets
3/22/2011-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Even though Carrasco has “been stretched”, not sure he’ll be the long guy in the pen he’s pitched in 1 inning situations his whole career(other than 20 starts in KC 2005) and seems better suited in that role. Misch who has proven his worth at Triple A should be given every opportunity to make the club as long man and spot starter.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
i’m assuming Beato will be the long man if he makes the team although i expect the Mets to try to trade for him and send him down to AAA.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Not sure the AA high Beato would be a good option for long-man.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
“It amazes me how you can defend a guy like Ollie and call Misch a bum.”
+ INFINITY
It sure doesn’t amaze me.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
yeah, I’d rather go with Carrasco or someone else. I know he’s produced all right, but he’s one of those guys that can go out there on any day and just..suck. and it’s more common than that he’ll have a stinker. I’d rather go with one of our many other options as a bullpen guy.
Probably best to stash him as rotation depth in Buffalo though than release him.
I didn’t really mean bum anyway. And Ollie’s a bum too. I just meant I don’t think he’s very good and would rather him not be with the team (same thing I felt with Ollie this Spring)
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Misch is out of options but most likely would clear again. I am fine with him going to AAA again. Just think for some reason he is not given his due in Met circles. Like you have to be an All-star to earn respect. Think of Misch as just a BU MI. What do you expect from a backup middle IF? If you are expecting more than league average results you are setting up for failure.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Cora got absolutely killed for making a little above average as a backup middle IF and being forced into a more prominent role by injury and then playing with two broken thumbs.
Carrasco has a two year contract (not that it’s a direct competition between them)
Misch has pitched well for the Mets, but I’ve always felt like he was pitching over his head and that it’s better to cut the cord before it backfires, sell high, etc. I’ll root for him if he makes the team (just like I’ll root for Emaus but prefer Turner) but I’d prefer someone else.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Cora was making 2M and was not putting up league average during much of that time.
Misch is making league minimum and is putting up league average.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Cora was league averageish before Reyes got hurt wasn’t he? for a backup MI guy? And he was getting killed well before he even played a game. The difference between league minimum and 2million is not much either.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
So you don’t think that Cora’s salary had anything to do with why he was criticized by so many? Go back and read all those comments. 90% had to do with the salary, age and injury.
Also Cora did not put up anything close to league average last year. .207 .265 .278 .543
His 2009 was fine for what he was but not as many were killing him then.
Again, Cora’s dislike was mostly about the money. Regardless of if we think that 1.5M is a big deal or not it was perceived as one.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Well, as this is started on my dislike of Misch, I’ll tell you that I don’t look at the money when I’m judging a player.
I’m not going to be less harsh on Misch because he’s making 400k. It’s the performance on the field i’m concerned with, not the value per $.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
so you didn’t like his 3.84 ERA (4.28 as a SP), 1.25 WHIP, 4 BB in 37 IP on the season???
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
It’s the idea that he has to throw hard and if not then it’s smoke and mirrors. LOL.
Honestly I don’t care that if he was left in the rotation for a long time teams would figure him out. If he’s left in the rotation for too long then we have other issues. He is what he is and I am fine with that.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Id hope Misch goes unclaimed simply b/c he’s great in AAA and we still have a lack of SP prospects there but he shouldnt make the team out of ST.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I really don’t have much of an opinion on if he should make the team out of ST. If the Mets go with a 7 man pen then the last guy is not likely to factor in much anyway. Most likely about who has options and who is most likely to pass through waivers. Maybe a guy like Beato gets to go to AAA bec. the Mets work out a trade to keep him. Then you have undecideds like Boyer and Izzy. Some of them are on minor league deals so unless they have a stipulation in their contract then they can be stashed in AAA for a while to keep from having to pass others through.
saltygary
3/22/2011-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Well that’s why many wanted those two to go before spring started so the conversation wouldn’t be wasted on them.
The pen has been such an issue for this team and there is nothing that suggests this will change in the immediate future. It started with Glavine and Pedro’s inability to get out of the 6th, Manual’s horrible management and now they have 2 guys that haven’t pitched full seasons in a while. While 7 man is not needed especially in the first month it won’t be a bad idea later on so the rotation does’t get burned out. I would rather have 6 innings for Young and Cap for stretches to keep them healthy than to push them for the sake of having an extra bench player.
The good thing is there seems to be a couple more options in the minors that can help unlike past seasons.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
The flip side is the Mets have a lot of hitters that are out of options or rule5 and are floating on the bubble. Keeping an extra one of those helps them not lose a player.
I think the pen will be okay, and if it means utilizing a long man and properly resting and rotating guys so they don’t get burned out, that’s fine. We’re probably going with a couple of guys that can be rotated down to Buffalo if they don’t succeed as well.
If it’s Chris and Chris at least I think the rotation is in a state where you’re not expecting many of those 3inning starts where you suddenly find yourself using 5 relievers. Although the schedule is light on offdays in April..
saltygary
3/22/2011-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
The only one I would hold onto is Emaus and that’s only because he plays 2nd. Plenty of other teams have guys that are out of options so picking up another marginal batter isn’t that hard.
Also I wouldn’t be surprised if a guy like Evans passes through waivers. Worth the risk to me.
ajgmets
3/22/2011-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Evans has far too much pop in his bat to slide through waivers. Exposing him will most likely result in losing him. Too Bad..Nice kid with a good bit of upside..dare I say another Murph with more power..LOL
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
I’m with you on Evans.
He had a very nice year last year down there (have no idea why he was so bad in ’09).
He does have more pop than Murphy but don’t know if he’ll hit consistently as Murphy seems to do. He’s not really been given much of a chance up here when there were opportunities (thanks Jerry).
I believe we’ll wind up losing him too. Not unless Beltran starts the year on the DL and Evans somehow winds up with the 25th spot.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t see it. The claiming team would have to have a need for a backup 1B that they would be willing to cut someone on their current roster to keep. I think he passes through. Especially if you wait until a week into the season which is entirely possible.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Some teams might have 40man spots to hold him though. Might see some value for him in a different way than just a backup 1B or something.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
If he is out of options he can’t go to their AAA either based on what I have interpreted.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
waivers again. I think he can..or would he then have to be put through waivers by them before assigning him? that’d be silly wouldn’t it?
saltygary
3/22/2011-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Yea I don’t think a trade can reset the option process. Here’s the rule:
If a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the active major league roster, he is said to be on optional assignment—his organization may freely move him between the major league club and the minor league club. If a player is on the 40-man roster and not the active 25 man roster for any part of more than three seasons (in which he spent 20 or more total days of service in the minors), he is out of options and may not be assigned to the minors without first clearing waivers. However, if a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Right Salty. So if Evans is claimed he is still out of options and would have to be exposed to waivers again if they tried to send him down. It’s for a players protection so you can’t get out of it.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
looked it up. It does seem like he’d clear, but another team might take a flyer on him, particularly if they’re a team that finished high last season and wants a quick tryout. say a 1B gets hurt or something. In the first month it goes by last years standings so say the Red Sox or someone wanted him, they could play him a bit and still replace him on waivers late in April expecting the couple of teams behind them probably wouldn’t claim him either.
If he’s truly out of the competition it almost seems like they’d be best off waiving him now because an injury out there might prompt someone to give him a shot.
TRS86
3/22/2011-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
The will wait until the 5th starter is needed and then try and pass him through if needed. Then the team claiming him would have to cut another player from the 25 man to make room him. To me just not very likely.
Think about that situation, player has went through ST and earned a spot on your team, starts the season with you as the back up and then is released due to Nick Evans. It could happen but I just don’t see it. The Mets would also be given the opportunity to pull him back and or work out a trade.
stickguy
3/22/2011-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
they can’t pull the trick of leaving the 5th SP behind for a week or 2 this year. All of the 5 are on the 25 man roster, and will be with the club.
The only way you could do this is if you went short a pen guy (using the 5th SP if needed), then called up another RP when it was time for a 5th SP to go (waiving Evans at that point).
And considering they already have a numbers problem in the pen, that probably won’t work either!
I think the answer to the problem is Beltran will start the season on the DL, giving Evans a few weeks (at least 5 days) on the ML roster, and at that point, he may clear.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
TRS, you mean like how Evans made the team working all Spring and then was demoted last minute for Gary Sheffield?
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, could happen. Difference is Evans is not Gary Sheffield.
TRS86
3/22/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
True could be Beltran but I am sure there is another pitcher they could demote for a few days that has options or is on a minor league contract.
saltygary
3/22/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
There’s no room for him. Murph is going to back up Ike and Hariston, Duda and Harris are in front of him for OF.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
That remains to be seen. Personally I’d take Evans over Harris, and I think Duda’s going to AAA to start every day. Murphy could win 2B and Evans could be a corner guy and Hu the middle guy.
But it doesn’t look good for him, no.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
and what happens if Murphy starts at 2B on a given day, who is your LHB off the bench???
even if you disagree with that logic, Collins has already said he’s making the team so Evans only stays if Beltran is on the DL or they carry an extra bench player.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Not going to keep Evans and Hairston in my opinion.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Oleo. Only way that Evans makes the team is if Murphy is not even in the 2B discussion.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, there isn’t a lot of sure stuff at 2B to risk letting a guy go just for the sake of it. Emaus isn’t my choice, but maybe the Mets could work out a deal and keep in Buffalo.
Evans probably isn’t making this team. Trying to read between the lines and it just doesn’t seem like there is a role for him. playing RF today though, so we’ll see. I happen to like him and hope he can find a spot and contribute, but there are a lot of guys like that too.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
I just dont see how Turner can get the job over Emaus at this point. Emaus doesn’t have options and neither has stood out in camp.
TRS86
3/22/2011-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
He won’t and Sandy basically said as much yesterday during the game.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
I still hope Murphy gets the chance to play 2B. His bat in the 7 hole makes the offense so much more productive…
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Like coffee after a bran muffin.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
i have zero worries about Capuano. He pitched 100 innings combined in AAA and the MLB and has looked fantastic this spring.
Young is more of an injury risk but has looked absolutely dominant this spring and looks like he could wind up being the best pitcher on the staff…
saltygary
3/22/2011-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
I hope your right, Young had great stuff with SD and would love to see him successful in a lopng term roll over here. BUT it doesn’t mean the team shouldn’t plan for issues with them and so far I think they have accomplished this well.
saltygary
3/22/2011-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
Playing around with the roster (please let me know if I incorrectly added or omitted someone) but I have it at 28. What 3 players would you take off? Just one rule, keep the rotation at 5 starters.
C: Thole, Josh
Paulino, Ronny
1st: Davis, Ike
Murphy, Daniel
2nd Emaus, Brad
Hernandez, Luis
3rd Wright, David
SS Reyes, Jose
Lu, Chin-Lung
OF Bay, Jason
Beltran, Carlos
Pagan, Angel
Hairston, Scott
Duda, Lucas
Harris, Willie
SP Pelfrey, Mike
Niese, Jon
Dickey, R.A.
Young, Chris
Capuano, Chris
RP Rodriguez, Francisco
Parnell, Bobby
Byrdak, Tim
Buchholz, Taylor
Carrasco, D.J.
Acosta, Manny
Misch, Pat
Beato, Pedro
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Well, you’ll have Nikeaus instead of Paulino, for a little bit.
I’d say Misch, Duda & Hernandez go down.
saltygary
3/22/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
If Murph gets the Job at second I would drop Hernandez and also move Duda and Misch.
If Murph doesn’t get the job you either have to take out 2 relievers and an OF?
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see Izzy on here and I’d have to assume he’s still vying for a spot in the pen.
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
I dunno, he’s hurting as it is…
saltygary
3/22/2011-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
Since he signed a minor league contract they can stash him and let him work the kinks out. I think that would take a little pressure off of him and if he can perform he will be needed.
TRS86
3/22/2011-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
True but originally he said he would not go to the minors, he would retire if he did not make it. Basically a last ditch effort.
saltygary
3/22/2011-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Hopefully that attitude changes if he feels he has a shot and that he just needs a little more time.
ajgmets
3/22/2011-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Hernandez, Buchholz & Beato are OUT In my not so humble asinine opinion..
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Why?
TRS86
3/22/2011-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
I think Buchholz is on an MLB deal. Paid .6M.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks. I thought it was a minor league deal. I’m truly losing count on those BP arms, who is a Major leaguer, who is a minor leaguer, who is an invite….
I like Izzy but I just don’t know how long he goes before he hits the DL. And if he only gives us 2 months before that happens, I wouldn’t want to lose Beato over that. At least he’s young.
O’Connor I think we can send down with no problem.
stickguy
3/22/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
ML deal, and frankly, so far this spring he has easily looked like the best set up man option.
He is for sure on the team
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
I think we’ve got more than 28 (see above re: Izzy). I don’t see Turner on this list either.
So I think 5 have to go, at least.
And I guess this depends on how many BP arms vs. bench players. Myself, I’d rather go with one more bench player rather than the BP arm, especially if we have a long man in the pen.
I like Duda but he’s wasted on the bench not playing/batting every day and he’s got options so down he goes. He can take Hernandez and Turner with him for now.
I’d still like to hold onto Evans, especially b/c of the Beltran ‘will he be on the DL to start the season’ issue. That probably means one less BP arm to start. So assuming Izzy is healthy, I’d see if we could get Misch thru waivers.
Does Bucholtz have a minor league contract? If yes, that would be my 5th guy cut to start.
Given the fact that I don’t think there was room for Harris, Hairston and Evans if Carlos is not on the DL, not sure you can make this decision now.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
O’Connor is missing on this list of BP arms too.
saltygary
3/22/2011-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Who the hell is O’Connor? Is he a rookie or minor league contract?
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
He’s one of the LOOGY candidates.
I think he’s in the Mets minor league system and wasn’t a ML contract signee but I truly cannot remember.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, he’s just a ST invite.
TRS86
3/22/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
I think last count we were still at like 36.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Well, then we’re missing some guys:
C: Thole, Josh
Paulino, Ronny
1st: Davis, Ike
Murphy, Daniel
2nd Emaus, Brad
Hernandez, Luis
3rd Wright, David
SS Reyes, Jose
Lu, Chin-Lung
OF Bay, Jason
Beltran, Carlos
Pagan, Angel
Hairston, Scott
Duda, Lucas
Harris, Willie
SP Pelfrey, Mike
Niese, Jon
Dickey, R.A.
Young, Chris
Capuano, Chris
RP Rodriguez, Francisco
Parnell, Bobby
Byrdak, Tim
Buchholz, Taylor
Carrasco, D.J.
Acosta, Manny
Misch, Pat
Beato, Pedro
Salty’s list above plus:
Izzy
Turner
O’Conner
Can’t remember: has Boyer been cut yet?
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Boyer is still alive in the discussion.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
Mike Nickeas, Evans,
Not sure but have the officially optioned Pridie?
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Oh yeah, he does not have any options so gotta count him too.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, never mind. He already cleared them. I can’t keep up either.
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
I thought he was sent down already.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah he was.
saltygary
3/22/2011-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
I took Turner off because it sounded like he was an odd man out. Agree on Duda, I want that guy batting every day.
I would rather keep Harris than Evan’s. In my mind both guys are a dime a dozen but Up until last year Harris has consistently put in time at 2nd and I feel that adds more flexibility.
Bucholtz earns .6m or 1m if he makes 25 man roster, up to 200k in bonus’s based on appearance benchmarks
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
I think Bucholtz has most likely earned his spot. 11 innings 0 runs.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Well, there you have it.
I knew there was a reason I didn’t want to lose him.
Maybe it’s me but I don’t remember the last time there were so many new candidates at camp to fill out the BP. I can hardly keep up, especially since I don’t get to see the out of town ST games……
stickguy
3/22/2011-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
well, based on my guess below, it will be either 4 or 5 guys that were not even in the organization last year. So yes, lots of turnover!
going further, I have 6 non-RPs too that are from outside the organization.
so 10 at least, meaning a full 40% of the 25 man roster is new, and not even out of the Mets minors.
that sounds like a lot of “new” for a team that many people claim is “exactly the same” (and of course, Anderson did absolutely nothing int he off season!)
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but the core, the core…. the core.
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, i had to clean up spit out coffee on that one.
stickguy
3/22/2011-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Assuming Beltran starts on the DL, and Murphy/emaus platoon at 2B. Opening day I would go with:
reyes
pagan
wright
davis
bay
murphy
hairston
Thole
rotation pelf, dickey, neise, young, capuano (obviously)
Bench:
Nickeas
Hu
Emaus
Harris
Evans
Pen:
K Rod
Parnell
Buccholz
Carrasco
beato
Byrdak
Accosta or Misch (pick ‘em)
To AAA: Duda, Boyer, Izzy (under assumption he isn’t quite ready, and will give it a month or so with an opt out of May 15th), and the loser of the Pick ‘em if he clears.
If Izzy starts the year up, you lose the pick em option.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
I’d take Acosta over Misch right now.
Keep my fingers crossed Misch clears waivors. You can never have enough pitching depth in the minors.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
I think to start the season I too would try and pass Misch through instead of Acosta. Honestly I would bet that neither would be claimed.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t believe it. Willie Harris with a grand slam.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
One thing he can do 4D is hit the HR>
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
Had 10 HR last year in only 262 PA.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Well, if he can just do that GS once in the season, the drought will be over.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
Harris likely cements his position on the team. 2 out Grand Salami.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
Anyone watching this game? I only have Gameday.
Why did Duda PH for Pagan in the 2nd inning?
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Lower back issues.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
You gotta get MLBTV for computer. I am watching right now at work.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I wanted to until I realized all games during the season would be blacked out for me (all Mets/Yankees games).
I suppose I could have got it for one month for ST since they don’t black those out.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Nothing is blacked out for me, I live in an imaginary hole. LOL. Every zip-code around me has a blackout of some team.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Dang.
Pagan left with tightness in his lower back?
Ugh…..
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
I would not imagine that as major.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Penny, wishing the Mets still had Castillo.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Bay in CF?
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, poor Niese.
Duda LF, Bay CF, Evans RF.
saltygary
3/22/2011-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
I haven’t really seen Willie Harris in action for a couple years but he has put some decent time in at 2nd. Have the Mets put him there at all during the spring? I don’t think they have but it would be nice to know if he has any range over there.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Nope has not played there at all. I am guessing considering the other options and the fact they need OF’s….
Dang Niese, get an out.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
Niese pulling a Pelf.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
Would be nice.
4 straight quick singles off him.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
And a hit batsman.
Sigh….not good.
TRS86
3/22/2011-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
5-4 finally 2 outs though.
TRS86
3/22/2011-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
Out of the inning. Retired 3 straight but 2 scored on outs.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
And finally the 3rd out.
stickguy
3/22/2011-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
they didn’t exactly destroy neise there. An almost DP ball, at least 2 ground singles that went right under the 1B and 3B mans gloves, it happens.
Wright looked like he was playing SS on a Delgado shift on that play too.
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
It won’t happen but I’d probably send down Bobby Parnell. He just doesn’t know how to pitch yet and he should be closing at AAA and refining his game rather than being rushed into high leverage innings in the majors this season (at least until the other options flop).
My 7 man pen would be something like F-Rod, Izzy (hey, catch lightning in a bottle if you can and you will have a few down below if needed), Bucholtz, Boyer, Acosta (I think he’s better than Parnell at this very moment), Beato (give him a looksee while we can — electric arm) and Misch. This won’t happen because Parnell won’t go and Byrdak will also make it (I abhor the whole specialist niche and prefer guys who can “cross over” as Jerry used to say. While Misch can cross over, he’s not really as effective v. lefties as the lefty specialists like Byrdak are supposed to be). Also Carrasco is guaranteed, though I wouldn’t choose him.
This is not a very good bullpen unless one of Izzy or Bucholtz regain their previous form.
Luis Hernandez is an easy cut for me. He stinks.
Duda needs to play so he goes too.
Evans will pass through waivers. He’s got some pop but not enough to overcome the fact that his best defensive position is 1B and he’s not good enough to play there. He also seems like a platoon guy.
Since my Parnell situation will not happen and Byrdak will be on the team and Carrasco will be too I’d fill out the last four spots with Izzy, Beato, Bucholtz and F-Rod.
stickguy
3/22/2011-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
I suggested the parnell down idea the other day, so I am on board with you. If Izzy is healthy and sharp, it makes sense.
at this point, I think Bucchozl is the best set up man option (tag team him with izzy to keep them both alive).
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
Think I agreed with this the other day too.
Parnell is the picture of inconsistency yet. He doesn’t quite have it figured out yet and/or he doesn’t have the out pitch to get lefties out with any regularity.
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
Glad I’m not alone. But it seems like we will be the not so silent minority. Most importantly, it does not appear any of us have influence in Sandy’s office.
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
Willie Harris is a better fit on the bench than Evans. He’s better defensively and would be the best LH pinch hitting option they have if Murphy is starting.
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
If Capuano and Young somehow manage to stay healthy for a good chunk of the season, the bottom of the Mets rotation shapes up to the best it has been in ages. Of course, the top of it is highly questionable.
In the wake of Ollie, it is not surprising that the Mets have placed their faith in more cerebral players who could potentially overcome their limitations.
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
I have this feeling that Pelf is going to show he’s more of a #3 than a #1, especially being forced into the spotlight like he is. I’m sure the spotlight of fan ire will make it’s way onto him and the “Trade Pelf chatter will surface.”
stickguy
3/22/2011-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
Hopefully Pagans back is a NBD, only came out because it was ST deal. Since they really don’t have another CF floating around that I would care to see playing every day. especially is beltran is out of the line up too.
Wonder if F Mart can survive in CF these days?
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting chat with Paul DePodesta: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=823
Love this answer:
Robert (Queens): What are your thoughts on Wilmer Flores?
Paul DePodesta: Two days ago during a minor league game played on Field 7 (a field that is built precisely to the dimensions of CitiField – walls and all), Flores went oppo to deep right center field. Oppo. Right-center. In CitiField. He’s 19. Like him! Seriously, he can really hit.
stickguy
3/22/2011-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
Something wright could only do in his dreams these days!
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting read.
Here’s hoping Flores keeps on track and they decide on a position for him.
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
I suspect he’ll stick around at SS until he’s close enough to the majors to assess where he could fit in for the Mets. And that just might be at SS with Reyes’s free agency pending and Tejada the only apparent in-house option to replace him.
stickguy
3/22/2011-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
I think they should leave him there as long as he is still getting the job done. I don’t move him off because people “think” he won’t be able to stick.
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
Ryan (Austin, TX): What is your opinion on Cesar Puello and his power development? Lots of scouting websites believe he will grow into it, but his production has yet to match his tools.
Paul DePodesta: Ryan, Puello has big power. It’s a spectacle when he takes bp. The good news is that he’s really trying to establish himself as a good hitter first, knowing that the power will start to play in games in due time. He did that last year and also managed to steal 45 bases. He’s a potential five tool guy.
saltygary
3/22/2011-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
Alderson is on Mad Dog right now Sirius 123
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
All I want to know is how Russo pronounced “Alderson.”
saltygary
3/22/2011-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
“Sandy Atterson” lulz
saltygary
3/22/2011-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
So far in the interview worth noting:
Him a JP had a conversion and they both feel Beltran will make it to opening day. He is playing a minor league game today (Batting Only).
Santana is slated for before ASB.
Wouldn’t be shocked if there is an extra round of playoffs that are created with the collective bargaining agreement.
saltygary
3/22/2011-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
Lots of blah blah blah GM speak but he is very high on the performances of Chris^2 and the depth of the bullpen.
Standard answer on Reyes, need to see him before making a decision and Reyes is been real low-key about it so there’s no pressure right now.
Nothing on Pagan’s back, or Bay expectations.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
With 9 days or so to go till ST, I would have expected most of our SP to at least try and pitch through 6 innings, if not 7.
I don’t think one of them has pitched into the 7th yet.
Maybe we will need that extra arm in the BP to start the season.
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
They should all get two more starts (whether they come in exhibition games or simulated games or extended ST) before their spot comes up for the regular season.
But with the frailty of the arms of Cap and Young, it is probably a good idea to have a have bullpen in limit the innings for Cap and Young early on; especially in cold weather.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
Nah, that’d be more than usual, and Warthen’s a babyier anyway.
Plus if they pitch that long the other guys won’t get innings.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-4:10pm at 4:10 pm (UTC -4)
I suppose there is no reason to stretch the starters out too much. And with the amount of BP arms we have vying for spots I can understand wanting to get at least 3 innings of work for those guys.
I would just breath easier if I knew every starter gets at least through the 6th here in ST with a decent pitch count.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-4:30pm at 4:30 pm (UTC -4)
we don’t know the pitch counts anyway.
I think Capuano pitched into the 6th on Saturday, or finished it, or could’ve anyway, but I wasn’t paying that close attention.
stickguy
3/22/2011-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
ideally they will all go 6-7 there last start.
Didn’t young and capuano both go into the 6th last outing?
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
I think at least one if not both started the 6th. Don’t recall that either finished the 6th.
Beato looking good today. 2 innings, 1 hit.
stickguy
3/22/2011-3:59pm at 3:59 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting listening to the Tigers TV broadcast. No idea who the guys are (but one sounds like Gary C). ST for them too, the graphics guys keep screwing up. They just posted the mets 7th run as the Tigers 5th!
Oh, the interesting part. Announcers discussing the Mets, and one said that he was impressed by the Mets approach and success at 2-strike hitting! Went on to mention new FO/manager/PC contributing to that, since it sure wasn’t a strength the last couple of years.
Man, I don’t miss Jerry at all. Hojo either
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll second that.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
I think I’ve seen Cory Vaughn bat twice – HR and a double.
And pitching for the NY Mets: Les Walrond
Who the heck is Les Walrond??
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
career minor leaguer who earned a ST invite in a tryout held in Florida earlier this year.
terry has been impressed with him and he will almost assuredly be in Buffalo.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-4:07pm at 4:07 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks.
think I need to pay more attention to Toby Hyde’s site. The name Walrond doesn’t even ring a bell.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
Looks like Terry playing to win. After Les finds himself with bases loaded and 2 outs, he replaces him with Roy Merritt.
stickguy
3/22/2011-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
nice game all around. Good to see the team score a bunch, then keep hitting and add on some tack ons.
other than an odd tendency for SPs to allow a bunch of singles in a row at one point, it is starting to look like a decent team. Especially if Beltran really does make it back somewhere near opening day.
I know that ST is like rose colored glasses, but trying to be objective, I still don’t see the team that is going to be lucky to break 75 wins (that many posters at various sites seem to think is the “best case” scenario!
MHO of course, but if they get normal health this year, it has to be at least a .500 team, with enough upside potential for more.
njstuckintx
3/22/2011-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
MSNBC had them at 74-88. but to be fair, Ollie was on the team still at that time.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
Well, if anybody was projecting Ollie on the roster in any significant way I wouldn’t trust their predictions anyway, and if they correctly predicted him off the team, he doesn’t affect the results.
saltygary
3/22/2011-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
Terry Collins was just on Mad Dog and Doggie was exhausted after 5 minutes. Not too many people can do that to that guy. I’m worn out just listening to him. Haven’t heard much from him and it was nice to hear some excitement.
Really pumped about Chris^2.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
Quotes from Castillo when he arrived in Philly camp:
“I spoke with Terry,” Castillo said. “I told him I needed a chance to play. He wouldn’t give me a chance to play. It didn’t work out. I told him if he didn’t give me the chance to play I don’t know if I have to be on the team. He decided to release me and here I am.”
“It’s hard, man,” Castillo said. “You know how it is in New York. I want to forget everything in the last year and a half in New York and focus on this year. I want to be focused on baseball. I’ll give everything I have on the field. I’m working hard to show the people and the fans I can still play.
“Anybody would be excited to play with the Phillies. They’re good and I’m happy to be here.
saltygary
3/22/2011-4:41pm at 4:41 pm (UTC -4)
He’s right to be ticked. Of all the players to stay healthy in 09 it was him but he dropped a ball and the fans focused their frustrations with the Mets onto him.
I’m glad he’s gone but he got a raw deal.
Ceetar
3/22/2011-4:51pm at 4:51 pm (UTC -4)
He got a fair shake…this Spring. can’t say the same for how jerry treated him but jerry isn’t here anymore.
but it sounds like he still holds a grudge against the previous administration.
Sounds like he wanted the job handed to him on the back of his veteran status, but couldn’t handle that they’d consider youth and upside over him if it was close. I’d have preferred he didn’t go to Philly, as he’s definitely a better option that the alternatives and it was no surprise to see them snap him up real fast. Maybe he won’t impress and not make the team, but are they really going to go with Wilson Valdez?
kingman 26
3/22/2011-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
Well Salty I knew eventually I might disagree with you again.
Castillo in 2007 was a good player; declining but good.
In 2008 he was out of shape and in my humble opinion, when getting paid 6 mil a year to play baseball for 8 months, you should be in shape.
In 2009 he was in shape and was pretty productive.
Last year he was clearly not what he once was; maybe he worked hard, maybe he didn’t.
But reports indicated that he was indeed a negative presence, and reliable reports talked about at least one time (and maybe more) when he was needed to pinch hit late in a game, that he was nowhere near the dugout and had to be hunted for. To me, in my idealistic, childish way of thinking, this is beyond outrageous.
6 mil a year to play baseball for 8 months, and you cannot be bothered to be in the dugout and be ready?
And he also publicly bitched about playing time.
I agree that he definitely got much more grief than he deserved, but still, he was not always in shape, not always ready to play, and not always ready to put the team first.
And yes, I am sure he will get at least one game-winning, slapped single to the opposite field to win a walk-off against us this year; no doubt about it!
saltygary
3/22/2011-7:12pm at 7:12 pm (UTC -4)
Well it’s about friggen time I was getting worried
I’m just getting more concerned that we as a fanbase are getting rough enough that players will look at what happens when you play bad in Queens and choose to not take the risk. I am guilty as anyone just ask Looper, and I’m not saying we should turn into fans like SD but we need to do a better job of focusing blame where it rightfully belongs.
For Castillo one of the things that we were pissed about is the contract but that is not his fault. Fans didn’t boo him because of his lack of dugout presence. Casual fans don’t know that stuff. We killed the guy on a pop-up, a bad contract, and bad knees. 2 things out of his control and a mistake. That’s why I feel embarrassed about the whole thing BUTTTT I am still glad he’s gone.
hazmet
3/22/2011-7:28pm at 7:28 pm (UTC -4)
I actually could care less about the pop up. That was a physical error which happens and the next day he had maybe his best game as a Met. What I had a problem with, actually a big problem was when he started forgetting to cover second base when they weren’t in the hunt for anything. It happened later that same year a couple of times and again last year a couple of times. Those mental gaffe’s drove me over the edge. That combined with whining about not wanting to bat eighth cinched it for me. Pop up, hardly, could care less. Being a second baseman forgetting to cover second on a couple of double play balls as I recall is inexcusable.
saltygary
3/22/2011-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
A Mets fan just called into Doggie all freaked out that Castillo is on the Philies and feels like the team should of held him because of the Utley situation. Doggie basically said you can make that argument because there wasn’t other good option but felt the guy was just a paranoid fan.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-6:44pm at 6:44 pm (UTC -4)
What?
Isn’t that a bit like the guy who doesn’t want his girlfriend anymore but he doesn’t want anyone else dating her either? LOL
Utley’s out for the long term, I believe. He’s going down the Beltran road of trying to get a bone bruise to heal sooner rather than later. He might try and come back sooner but don’t think it will last.
We all know Castillo and his declining skills. If having him on the roster maybe prevents them from making some better deal this year, I’m all for it. I think it’s great.
I had nothing against Castillo personally. I just wanted him gone for the simple reason of I’d like to see more production out of 2nd base and…. if this is going to be a transition year, I’d prefer to see the kids out there than an aging 2nd baseman with limited range and no power.
oleosmirf
3/22/2011-11:09pm at 11:09 pm (UTC -4)
Castillo who?
hazmet
3/22/2011-6:17pm at 6:17 pm (UTC -4)
I haven’t heard such bitterness since the days of Chico Escuela. j/k
kingman 26
3/22/2011-6:27pm at 6:27 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
I was at an Old Timer’s Game in the early 1980s with my Dad and I had to explain to him who Chico Escuela was when Garret Morris ran on the field!
hazmet
3/22/2011-6:32pm at 6:32 pm (UTC -4)
Love it. I’m just so ready to get the season going as I’ve been seeing we all are. I know I have too much time on my hands when I’m looking up Taka’s spring training stat’s with the Angels and wishing he was in our pen still.
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-6:46pm at 6:46 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you on that.
Omar gave the wrong Japanese pitcher a two year contract.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-6:56pm at 6:56 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe, but who cares.
I know you two remember 1983.
It’s 1983.
The future is bright, the horrid past is receding.
I rarely paraphrase Ronald Reagan, but “It’s morning in Met Nation!”
metsfan4decades
3/22/2011-8:28pm at 8:28 pm (UTC -4)
I watched 1984 Mets Yearbook last night on SNY for the first time. I forgot how much fun that season was. Keith in his prime and Doc’s rookie year……
stickguy
3/22/2011-8:36pm at 8:36 pm (UTC -4)
this team could really use another Doc. not just for the obvious reason of better SP, but someone that can energize and excite the fan base, and get them out to the stadium for games that seem like an event.
But, I think right now the team should be pretty entertaining, and very easy to get behind and root for.
people might stay away as some kind of protest against the owners (still seems silly to me…), but the team I expect to leave it all on the field.
kingman 26
3/22/2011-8:48pm at 8:48 pm (UTC -4)
That was maybe the most fun season ever….of course 1986 was the best, but growing up with 1976–1983, being in contention and having players like Keith and Doc and Darryl—1984 was truly amazing.
hazmet
3/22/2011-8:39pm at 8:39 pm (UTC -4)
AMB – All Mets Bulletin
Replay of Mets Tigers on MLB Network right now
wannybackstra
3/22/2011-10:48pm at 10:48 pm (UTC -4)
i am inheriting a lousy team in a 5×5 roto keeper league. my keepers are probably votto, liriano, reyes, kinsler, holliday and right now my 6th is andre ethier. i’m not enthused by ethier but i have a deal on the table that could get me pablo sandoval.
thoughts?
3B production is scarce, especially in a league where arod, wright, bautista and zimmerman are among those being retained by their teams. but panda is a crap shoot at this point.
ethier is not exciting but he is almost a guarantee to do 290 20 80 and closer to 30 and 100 if healthy.
leaning toward panda because i think he can do similar numbers at premium fantasy position. any advice?
stickguy
3/22/2011-10:58pm at 10:58 pm (UTC -4)
sell it and buy the Mets?
stickguy
3/22/2011-11:02pm at 11:02 pm (UTC -4)
anyway, tough call. really depends on which panda you think you are getting. Really doesn’t seem to offer anything over eithier, other than his position.
eithier doesn’t steal as many bags as I expected either.
TRS86
3/23/2011-7:23am at 7:23 am (UTC -4)
Me? I would go with the commodity in Ethier and then look for the up and coming 3rd base guy.