Apr 11
Tell me if you have heard this before. Mets go ahead early, bullpen comes in and gives the game away late, Mets try to rally but come up short. If that does not ring a bell for you, might want to just check out YESTERDAYS GAME! Pelfrey…to use a phrase that Gary Cohen used tonight describing another player…”survived” tonight. Throwing 113 pitches over 5.1 innings with only 3 strikes outs and giving up 3 earned runs. And then of course…
Click on the picture for a recap of the game
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42 comments
stickguy
4/11/2011-11:07pm at 11:07 pm (UTC -4)
hey, they battled back. almost made it too.
man, with any kind of halfway decent pen they could be 7-3 easily.
kingman 26
4/11/2011-11:35pm at 11:35 pm (UTC -4)
Folks, love you and miss you.
But EVERYTHING is the problem.
The Mets threw 194 pitches today. 194!!!
Yesterday they struck out 17 times and drew 3 walks. Against TERRIBLE pitching.
Think about this—17 Ks and 3 BBs against yesterday’s pitching.
This is BAAAAAAAAD.
Today they drew ONE walk.
This team is loaded with terrible fundamental players.
There is no depth.
The bench is a joke.
There’s virtually nothing coming from AAA other than Mejia and maybe FMart. Duda and Evans are worthless.
Hu? Emaus? Nickeas? Hairston?
EVERYONE is playing between mediocre and horrid other than Reyes, Wright, Ike, Young and Dickey.
The bench is abominable, Pagan is showing why he has never been a starter, Emaus is the 2B version of Chris Carter, the entire pen is awful, and Pelf and Niese are 4th or 5th starters.
This is a BAD team.
Alderson just now is probably beginning to realize the depth of the horror he has inherited.
I want Reyes and Wright to stay, but we are far further from decency than I thought.
We are probably 3 years away from being a serious team.
Reyes, Wright, and Ike are the offense, with a bit from Beltran and Harris.
I love this team, and am thrilled at Reyes and Ike’s production, and so pleased with Young, but people—this team is TERRIBLE.
Not poor, not a reliever away from 7–3, TERRIBLE.
And I read the comments today criticizing Reyes and laughed my ass off!
Blaming Jose for anything this year is precisely analogous to blaming Wright for 2007 and 2008.
Jose is playing great. He’s not smart, he has weak instincts, but he’s producing!
The rest of the team SUCKS ROCKS!
Thank you and when does Wally get hired??
TRS86
4/12/2011-7:31am at 7:31 am (UTC -4)
Sorry you feel that way Kingman. Glad to have you back though.
metsfan4decades
4/12/2011-8:04am at 8:04 am (UTC -4)
KINGMAN!
Eh…I don’t think this team is totally awful. Just like even though they look like it at the moment, I don’t think Boston is awful either.
TRS86
4/12/2011-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
You know it’s funny. I see Boston at 2-8, the Braves, Giants, St. Louis, Padres all at 4-6 same as us, Twins and Tigers both at 3 wins, and think all these teams are playing below their talent level. Yet with the Mets, are they playing below their talent level or as expected? To me it’s just to early to tell. I would like to think that the pen will get better and realize that we could easily have 2-3 more wins if not for BP melt downs. Ah well, it’s early.
njstuckintx
4/12/2011-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I can’t get too overly reactionary on this team so far. I’m liking Big Murph so far. Reyes is a machine, as if Ike and Wright. I really hope they can sign young Reyes, but the trading of chips for young players should be all encompassing.
Untouchables: Wright, Reyes(if re-signed), Ike, Murphy (kidding) Thole, Niese… And that’s about it. I’d ship Young off (though if he proves himself in the next 2 months, I’d like to see him extended), Pagan, Pelf… I’m not saying ship them all off, buy you need to look at all your chips and see what they could bring back. but the time IS STILL 2 MONTHS AWAY. Let’s breathe a little and start taking bets on how long Jose’s dreads get before he cuts them.
metsfan4decades
4/11/2011-11:23pm at 11:23 pm (UTC -4)
Fitting title, Dirty.
Kind of hard not to remember where we saw this last. If I didn’t know any better, I would think it’s late 2008 all over again.
Well, offense is not exactly the problem.
Bobby O was interesting on the post game, as usual. He said Izzy came out, did nothing fancy, did his job, got the job done. Said hopefully the rest are taking notes.
Kudos for Murph tonight. Good throw home (hey, Parnell, Iggy, did you study that throw?) and that one play out at second was very nice.
TC just about came out and said tonight if you can’t take the pressure at the ML level, here in NY, then maybe you don’t belong here. Obviously in regards to some of his BP arms.
Could always be worse. Could be Boston tonight.
kistics
4/11/2011-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
That F-in Ump was sh#@ tonight.
We knew the BP was somewhat in question this season, but did we expect them to be this bad?? What happened to Parnell??
njstuckintx
4/12/2011-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
That last AB by Jose was horribly called.
IB_Twaddle
4/12/2011-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
I posted this at Faith and Fear too, but curious how this board feels:
A lot is being said and written about the pitching failures, but I have another worry that can really spell disaster: We have 2 rookie catchers – Can either call a game? Handle a pitcher’s delicate psyche? Take charge on D? Thole looks like he’ll be a good ball player, but right now, I’d take a solid D, knows the NL vet back there with a .240 bat.
Got to be strong up the middle.
TRS86
4/12/2011-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
I am sure having one in the dugout will help but I would rather have Thole in the game. If you look back at Pelf’s stats from last year, he pitched as well if not better to Thole than he did the other two. More innings too.
TRS86
4/12/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
That being said, welcome.
IB_Twaddle
4/12/2011-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks.
Prismo
4/12/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Regardless of what kind of game is called, the pitchers simply aren’t throwing strikes. It would be one thing if they were just getting rocked by hits, but they’re walking FAR too many batters.
Also, Thole is definitely the answer at C for now. He’s young and we’re semi-rebuilding, and he seems to have a good head on his shoulders
Prismo
4/12/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Chris Young seems to have no issue with Thole’s game-calling skills.
kistics
4/12/2011-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
How is the weather looking tonight?
IB_Twaddle
4/12/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Chris Young sure looks like he has a plan going in. Do they keep a stat on how many signs a pitcher shakes off?
On the other hand the BP looks extremely unsure of itself.
Just thinking out loud here. I think Thole is the future too, but it’s the here and now that concerns me.
TRS86
4/12/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
To me thinking TOO much about the here and now this year is a bad idea. Also, like I said, stats from last year don’t really show any drop of for Thole. Can’t learn the pitchers unless you are out there I guess.
TRS86
4/12/2011-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Sometimes I think we as fans look too hard for answers to questions when they are most likely right in front of us. Pelfrey has stunk because he has not pitched very well. His location has been off and he has gotten frustrated too much. The pen, most of the guys, aside from Parnell and Carrasco are reclamation projects. They are bound to struggle early.
TRS86
4/12/2011-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
Well and Krod obviously.
IB_Twaddle
4/12/2011-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
“To me thinking TOO much about the here and now this year is a bad idea.”
There’s a lot of wisdom that. I’ll heed your advise the best I can, though Lord knows it’s difficult.
TRS86
4/12/2011-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
IB if you have seen me around for a while then you know how difficult it is for me to say that as well.
metsfan4decades
4/12/2011-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
That and I don’t think it’s rocket science out there either when RA is on the mound.
Dickey said he’s got signals he uses with Thole to let him know when he’s changing up speeds on his knuckleball. I tried to pick up on that but couldn’t. Damn he’s good……
saltygary
4/12/2011-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Not a bad point at all. With some new starters and a new bullpen a gristly old catcher would probably be a good idea. Thole being a rookie is going to have a hard time leading these guys and a vet can help by providing a support system for both Thole as he is learning and for the staff.
Great post, check in more often.
TRS86
4/12/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s a couple of questions though. How does one become a veteran catcher? Two, would replacing Thole with a veteran catcher really make much of a difference this year or would it hinder Thole’s development for when it does matter?
Dirtysanchez
4/12/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Does ronnie paulino count as a “verteran catcher”. Lets not overlook that he was supposed to be a part of our plan.
TRS86
4/12/2011-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah. I am surprised, however, that Sandy has not increased our organizational depth there.
kistics
4/12/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Indians are off to a hot start and their catcher is Carlos Santana. Same with Weiters and the O’s.
stickguy
4/12/2011-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
seemed to work out OK for the giants last year.
saltygary
4/12/2011-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
No Thole still needs to be the starter, I want the kid to be given a chance all year. I was speaking up for a backup and also someone who can instruct during bullpen sessions.
As for Paulino I don’t know if he is really a veteran or if he will even play. Also I’m not advocating for a new acquisition until there is more clarity to that situation. Just thought the guy made a good thought.
TRS86
4/12/2011-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
No doubt he did Salty. I thought it had merit the other day when we discussed it but then I could not correlate this year’s stats to struggles last year with Thole.
saltygary
4/12/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
I hear ya with this point and your wise statement about finding answers.
We’re only ten games in and I don’t know if it’s the pessimist in me not expecting much or what, but I am not concerned about the pen yet. They looked like crap and it’s early. What we need to see is a damn pitcher making it out of the fifth.
At what point does Terry just leave them out there?
stickguy
4/12/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
I agree that the SP has been a huge factor in the pen getting exposed.
but, I also think it is too early to panic, and write it off for the year.
There have been some good outings mixed in, and they already removed 1 dud. So it is entirely possible that as they settle in, and the SP (hopefully) stabilizes, they can get into a more successful routine.
it is certainly much easier to manage a pen if you are routinely getting 7 out of the SP, and sometimes 8. And never less than 6!
Most pens it seems have only 3 or 4 guys that they use much. The rest are filler, oogies, and a long man.
so, just maybe Izzy is going to hold up, and you can have a nice little rotation of K Rod, Izzy, Buchholz for the end, with parnell and Iggy for earlier or ROOGY duty.
Carrasco can mop up and pitch long if needed, and they just need to find a better LOOGY than Byrdak.
I know it has been a rough start, but I really do think they will settle down (there are always ups and downs!) and the vetting process will establish a good mix.
wannybackstra
4/12/2011-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Stick — I’d love to be as optimistic as you about the pen but I don’t see one pitcher in that pen outside of K-Rod with a recent sustained track record of success.
Byrdak and Carrasco are the closest things and they are nothing more than mediocre fillers.
wannybackstra
4/12/2011-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
Nickeas is a rookie but he is well regarded as a defensive player.
Paulino strikes me more as a right handed hitter who is willing to wear a chest protector.
metsfan4decades
4/12/2011-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
I heard an interview with Nickeas during one of the ST games. He was very well spoken, seemed to now his baseball and I couldn’t help thinking there’s a future for him somewhere in coaching at the ML level.
metsfan4decades
4/12/2011-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
This was talked about a bit either in the booth or post game – can’t remember which right now.
They said that Thole was a very ‘enthusiastic’ rookie, well liked by teammates and especially the pitchers. Said he’s working hard, he studies scouting reports and looks at tapes of every team/batter before the series.
I took that to mean he’s a work in progress but obviously still a rookie yet.
Pelf admitted last night that he never shakes off his pitchers, he just about always throws what they call.
Bobby O said it’s time Pelf started a game plan himself for each batter and knowing his strengths/weaknesses, not be afraid to shake off his catcher if he feels it’s warranted.
metsfan4decades
4/12/2011-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
In a nutshell I think young Thole might be compounding a problem with starters such as Pelfrey and Niese but wouldn’t say he’s got much to do with Dickey and Young.
I remember the rumors on Schneider and the knock on him supposedly from the FO was he didn’t call a good game.
I like Thole a lot and think he’ll get better and better at it. As he’s learning though, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Paulino in there for maybe Niese and Pelf a bit….if he ever returns.
TRS86
4/12/2011-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Yet, again, Pelfrey was best last year under Thole. To me it’s just looking for something that’s most likely not there.
metsfan4decades
4/12/2011-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
I get what you’re saying.
By Pelf’s own admission though he very rarely shakes off his catcher. So if Thole is calling the same type of game this year as last with Pelfrey, then to me that has to mean the location of those same pitches being called for/thrown are not where they need to be.
TRS86
4/12/2011-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
Yup, and the fact that most of the time when Pelf was pitching to Thole last year his confidence was high and he was rolling. He’s been a mess this year just like he was for July last year. He, if based on the last 2 years, will most likely come out of it soon.
kistics
4/12/2011-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
Who really calls the games? Managers or Catchers? And who calls the games for the Mets?