Live From Grunge Heaven: Kurt Cobain was the unquestioned king of the revolutionary Seattle music scene of the 1990s, but he was not as big of a sports fan as some of his colleagues in bands like Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, and the Screaming Trees. But Kurt always sympathized and identified with underdogs and abject losers, and he has apparently become a huge Met fan over the last few years.
We thank another Seattle music legend, Layne Staley, for snapping this photo of Kurt tonight in the VIP section of Grunge Heaven, taken right after Hunter Pence’s game-winning homer crossed the left field wall. Layne had been citing the Mets’ bottom five standing in the NL in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, H, HR, ERA, and BB, H, and HR allowed, and when he mentioned that the Mets would be 1-8 at home after tonight’s soon-to-be loss, Kurt let out his feelings about the Met 2011 season.
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Game Box: http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310420121&teams=houston-astros-vs-new-york-mets
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Summary: The bottom of the 1st and the top of the 2nd seemed to quickly illustrate the difference this year between the Mets and other major league teams. The Mets loaded the bases in the bottom of the 1st on a crisp Reyes single, a Wright walk and an infield hit from Beltran. Ike then struck out and Pagan flied out to strand three.
In the top of the 2nd, the Astros had two men in scoring position, and first cashed in a run on a wild pitch followed by weak throw from Thole. Pitcher Bud Norris then singled in a run, followed by another RBI single from Michael Bourn.
Jose Reyes led off the 3rd with his second sharp single of the game, and was driven in by a double to left-center by Beltran. Pagan finished off the inning by leaving his fourth and fifth men on base of the night, prompting him to suggest that WAR be reconfigured to more heavily consider men LOB.
A Murphy single and a Beltran double was all the team could muster in the 4th and 5th, while Dickey settled in and kept the Astros off the board. After turning double plays in the 5th and 6th, Daniel Murphy continued his strong campaign for more playing time with a 2-run homer to tie the game after a Willie Harris double.
The surprising defense continued in the 7th with another double play, but the Mets wasted a leadoff walk to Wright in the bottom of the frame.
Hunter Pence did what pretty good hitters do to pretty bad pitches by blasting a homer to left to lead off the 8th. Dickey did not have his best knuckler, and his command was also not ideal, but he battled as he always does, and made quick work of the Astros to finish off the 8th.
Pagan worked out a walk to begin the bottom of the 8th, and was moved to third by a perfect opposite-field hit-and-run single by Murphy, his third hit of the game. The Mets then managed a classic recent Met play-Justin Turner attempted to pinch hit and struck out, and the ball dribbled not too far away from the plate; Pagan raced home and was tagged out. Yes, it was an aggressive play which we need, but a strike-em-out, tag-em-out-at-home DP to end the 8th? Seems like another only-the-Mets moment.
And another of these moments was to come – the game effectively ended after Jose led off the 9th with his fourth hit of the game, and Thole’s attempt to bunt was caught and fired to first to double off Reyes, who continues to show that his head is still far behind his body when it comes to instincts. Wright flew out to end the game.
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Quote of the Day: “We have to stop telling ourselves we are a better team than this – we might not be.” –R.A. Dickey
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Bright Spots: Dickey did battle, and threw a decent game without his best stuff…He remains one of this team’s few positives…Murphy turned double plays, hit a huge HR, singled to left on a hit-and-run, and looked head-and-shoulders above his very mediocre second base competition…One can hope that Collins will soon just put Murph at 2B one day and leave him there…Jose Reyes had four hits, and was not hitting the ball in the air; he appears to be getting into another nice groove…Despite clearly decreased speed and mobility, Beltran’s bat looked fast and dangerous tonight.
Causes For Concern: David Wright is lost when he swings the bat…He did draw two walks, but his inexorable drive to the Mendoza Line continues unabated; he struck out twice and is now hitless in his last 19 AB…Josh Thole’s offense and defense have been clearly diminished of late; let us hope this is temporary.
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Next Game: The Mets try to salvage the last game of the series with J.A. Happ taking on Chris Capuano at Citi Field at 7:10 PM tomorrow night.
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Author’s Note: This post was inspired by the unparalleled work of GraveDiggerHebner, who had an inimitable way of bringing laughter after even the worst losses. The author’s hope is that this may be one-tenth as good as an average Grave post, and that if Grave is out there, that he approves of the author’s humble effort to put his tiny feet in Grave’s gargantuan orange-and-blue footsteps.
109 comments
njstuckintx
4/20/2011-10:20pm at 10:20 pm (UTC -4)
SLOPPY SLOPPY team. so much for back to the basics and stressing the fundies.
and why does pagan’s base running blunders decide to come back at the more opportune moment?
Uff Da.
metsfan4decades
4/20/2011-10:32pm at 10:32 pm (UTC -4)
I miss Grave.
Nicely done, Kingman.
Anyone who had a chance to listen to RAs post game interview…all I can say is he hit the nail on the head. Finally someone who put into words what is wrong with this team. Being honest with themselves and until they do, nothing will change.
If we didn’t need him in the rotation, I ‘lobby’ RA for manager.
metsfan4decades
4/20/2011-10:38pm at 10:38 pm (UTC -4)
On that note, what the heck does this tweet mean from MC:
matthewcerrone: Brutal loss, Mets fans. RA Dickey speaks the truth. He also speaks like there is a baby in the other room.
*************
Is he implying collectively the team are whining immature babies?
Not sure but what I took from RA’s interview was the team is going nowhere unless they start being honest with themselves. None of that ‘we’re better than this’ and sitting back collectively waiting for things to magically turn around.
I guess there is a fine line between the confidence and/or arrogance to believe in yourself and your team and flat out delusional
stickguy
4/20/2011-10:43pm at 10:43 pm (UTC -4)
sounds like he was saying Dickey spoke softly?
metsfan4decades
4/20/2011-10:57pm at 10:57 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, maybe…I didn’t take it that way. Maybe b/c I didn’t notice RA’s tone in tonight’s interview any different than any of his previous ones.
stickguy
4/20/2011-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
SP is the perfect guy to be a player/manager. He only plays every 5th day, so few distractions!
volton
4/20/2011-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
this is the worst ever. I had season tickets for 25 years, gave them up two years ago, divorced the team, twins fan now, they know how to play, the mets are an embarrassment to the city, their loyal fans, and the game. blow it all up, contract the franchise, relocate the rays, and start fresh
metsfan4decades
4/20/2011-10:58pm at 10:58 pm (UTC -4)
I have absolutely no idea how you walk away from a team you followed for 25 years. I’ve been a Met fan now since ’68. I can’t imagine walking away.
But hey…to each his own.
njstuckintx
4/20/2011-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
i don’t understand either. but cool handle.
gategem
4/21/2011-12:06am at 12:06 am (UTC -4)
I’m a passionate Mets fan dating back to their very beginnings. Yet my love for baseball overwhelms my obsession with the Mets. I’m finding it painful to watch the way the Mets play baseball. So I’m tuning in to the Mets less and less. My feelings for the team are not diminished but I have limited budget and time to allocate towards entertainment and right now there are other things I’d rather be doing then watching the Mets insufferable style of play.
Another point, if you start to follow another team day after day after some time you will start to identify with the players on the team and start to become a fan of that team. It’s the initial breakaway that is the most difficult.
njstuckintx
4/20/2011-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
So… The ‘must win’ didn’t happen. Now what?
Dirtysanchez
4/20/2011-11:44pm at 11:44 pm (UTC -4)
The world will explode…
gategem
4/20/2011-11:52pm at 11:52 pm (UTC -4)
Via the MLB Extra Innings package I believed that the two worst teams I have seen this year were the Mariners and the Astros. But I sadly have to admit I was terribly mistaken. Right now the Mets are the worst team in baseball. If they continue this uninspired, insipid and sloppy play they will have a chance at the overall number one pick next year. However, if the Wilpon’s still own the team will they be able to afford the asking price of a number one pick?
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-7:16am at 7:16 am (UTC -4)
Good thing I’m not paying extra to watch the Mets play. Fortunately, my cable includes SNY and MLB. I probably wouldn’t be a very happy camper paying more to see this level of play.
I thought the same thing about the draft. Even if we don’t get the #1 pick, are they really going to go over slot? I read reactions from some Met fans yesterday concerning the news that MLB had taken over operations for the Dodgers. They were all calling for MLB to do the same with the Mets. I’m not sure they realize that then puts control in their hands on draft picks, signings etc. I’m not sure what would be worse right now but if the Wilpons have a brain cell left, they’d realize part of the problem today is the refusal to go over slot for the past 8-9 years or so.
stickguy
4/21/2011-7:30am at 7:30 am (UTC -4)
the real question is, what is the end game to MLB taking over the team? If it is for the owner to get straightened out and take it back, who knows what happens. But, if it is to sell the team off, then they will have new owners long before next year’s draft.
I think the sell off is more likely with the Dodgers, since there is no way apparently that either McCourt could keep running it. The Mets, not the same situation (and remember, the Wilpons have owned the team for 25+ years).
but if they did have to sell, they already have a vetter group of buyers waiting, and probably salivating, at the chance to bid ont he whole thing.
Actually, this is the perfect time for Freddy to put the whole team up. He already has the interested parties, knows their financial situation, etc. get them to start bidding, and see what happens!
gategem
4/21/2011-7:42am at 7:42 am (UTC -4)
Fred Wilpon must salivate at the thought of owning the Dodgers. BTW today is throwback day at Dodgers Stadium and the players will wear the old Brooklyn uniforms.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-8:32am at 8:32 am (UTC -4)
Could you see the Wilpons selling the Mets, only to turn around and buy the Dodgers? How screwed up would that be?
I wonder what the real reason is the Wilpons have been adverse to selling? If Sterling Mets are broke, from a business perspective, wouldn’t it be smarter to sell and try and get out from under?
Or do they really think an infusion of cash can turn this franchise around, thereby allowing them to continue making money and pass the legacy down the Wilpon line.
I sometimes wonder if Fred were not around, if Jeff wouldn’t have sold out years ago.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Is that because they can’t afford new ones?
TRS86
4/21/2011-8:41am at 8:41 am (UTC -4)
I really don’t know who to be angry at from last night.
Josh Thole for a pitiful excuse for a bunt.
Jose Reyes for not getting back (I thought about this one, how it looked like he was caught off guard. Then I realized how if he had not made a slight move to 2nd then the pitcher could have dropped it and gotten 2. I just don’t think he expected such a quick and accurate throw from the pitcher)
Terry Collins for calling for the damn bunt again in that situation?
I have asked this question a couple of times already this season. What does it say that 3 managers have managed Jose Reyes since 2005 and all 3 have bunted late in the game with Jose Reyes at 1B. Last night you would think would have been a great opportunity for a steal, bunt to 3rd and then sac fly from Wright ties the game. If you get caught then it’s still have Thole and Wright with a chance to get on ahead of Beltran. We all know the merits of this and have discussed it over and over. So this year I continue to ask the question. Is it that all managers play conservatively in this situation, is it because all 3 managers stink, or is it something to do with Reyes?
kingman 26
4/21/2011-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
LOL!!!!!!!!
How much grief have you given me for saying the obvious for years—that Reyes is a great athlete physically, but he is of average intelligence at best, has terrible instincts, and DOES NOT FOCUS.
Reyes is a childish bonehead. Always has been, always will be.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
I still can’t tell if that was Reyes being a bonehead or not. I think if he had not strayed a little they would have turned two for sure by just dropping the ball. Thole did not exactly run out of the box. In fact I thought he was going to go out and knock down the ball himself.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Maybe, but still—I know you might kill me for this–but Jose and Beltran were giggling with the Astros on the bases last night.
I am sorry TRS, but the culture of being OK with losing runs very deep with many–but not all–of these guys.
It’s time for the baseball equivalent of the nuke option.
Blow the f***** up.
As the man in Vietnam famously said, we have to destroy the village to save it.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I am not denying the need for a culture change.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Well welcome aboard the train of change! I think you will be very happy here.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Kingman if you recall I have been calling for that change since 2009 with my famous trade Beltran piece and have been leading the trade Reyes campaign for a while now.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Oh, and the person to be angry with, 100% and with zero doubt, is Omar Minaya, and to a lesser degree at the Wilpons for not firing him after 2009.
We’re doomed for a couple of years now.
Trade everyone and amass 10 prospects; the system must be rebuilt form the ground up.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Could not agree more with your first statement.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Well, you have always been one of the smarter people here…
I might be psycho (in more ways than one) but this really does not get me mad. I still enjoy the games, and RA Dickey’s comment “We have to stop telling ourselves we are a better team than this – we might not be” was an all-time classic.
I mean, there’s no hope of them being good, so might as well roll with it for now and see what happens; you know that cliche about being strong enough to change the things you can change and not getting stressed about the things you have no power to change?
We can be 100% assured that this will not be like the last few years, with one major FA and little else. This team will be dramatically different by next spring, if not sooner.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
I hear ya, Kingman. I’m in for the long haul….heaven help me.
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
The Pagan to home play burns me the most. With Reyes on deck it wasn’t needed. And if you going to do it, do everything in your will to touch home. Get your foot down, get your hand down, whatever. He saw that it was too close and he quit before the play was finished.
Hopefully tonight will be Bay, Beltran and Harris in the OF.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
Haha–good luck on Pagan sitting! He’s one of the ten best outfielders in the game, remember?
There’s a very simple equation regarding Pagan:
The more he plays = The less he will produce + the more mistakes he will make.
Has been true his entire career, including last year, as the league had him figured out by August.
We’re into disaster mode here, so I say let’s try to laugh, be realistic, and take solace where we can find it.
It’s a LOOOONG road to being competitive again.
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
I never was on the same page with most hear on Pagan’s ability, but I figured he should at least be serviceable. I saw it coming I think in game 3. He had a normal strike out and slammed his gear down in frustration. If he’s pressing that much that early you know his head is all messed up.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, that’s the mental midget award so far for me. Horrible slide. Horrible decision to go. Bone head Pagan is not welcome here. Just the good Pagan.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Listening last night, Keith seemed to think it was absolutely the right play for Pagan to break for home. He did say however, if you can’t get a basic slide down right, best to park your butt at 3rd.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Yeah the decision was not the problem it like most things this year was the execution.
fne2864a
4/21/2011-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
Good Morning Everyone,
I just got to work and am sitting at my desk. I am writing this comment, and thinking WHAT THE HECK!!!!!! is going on with this team, our team. Why did Pagan try to steal home on a pass ball that was not far enough from the plate, why did he slide like a pee wee leauger; WHY!!!!! how come Thole cant bunt the damn BALL!!!! he is a major leauge player; and for goodness sakes why is Reyes running on a pop up bunt WHY!!!! Is it me or is this team hell bent on slowly poisioning us with a lack of zeal, heart, grit whatever you want to call it. Ok I got it out of my system; I just dont understand, and I am also tired of making excuses for these guys!
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
Oh Nos he said GRIT!
Ya know man I think we are all dumbfounded. I think these guys are so messed up in the head going back to ’07 that everything is out of desperation. They just don’t know what to do so they have resulted to playing like a bunch of drunks in a softball league.
These games aren’t just regular losses where the pitchers get out-dueled or the offense just doesn’t get enough hits.. It’s just this holy nightmare unfolding in front of us.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Lack of talent does all of the above.
The team just stinks.
A lot of the fan base has dramatically overrated a huge number of this team’s players for years now; they really were a rotten fourth place team last year, and they might actually be worthy of last place this year.
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t underrate them I came in at the lowest prediction of 73 games and everyone thought I was nuts.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Well, I first predicted 75 and 4th place, then let the peer pressure get me up to 80 I think. Hey, everyone’s optimistic in March!
But last August all of my illusions and delusions about this team shattered and I woke up to the sad reality that this is a bad team, and has been for three years.
It wasn’t just injuries in 2009, it wasn’t Jerry in 2010, and it ain’t “sample size” this year.
They suck.
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
If I was GM. I would make calls to respective teams to say be prepared to bid if you’re interested. After one more week of evaluation the sale will be on. Players by no means will be given away but the coarse will be changed. Everyone is on the table except Wright. I would also take a note from TRS’s book and attempt to re-sign Wright. If Wright has no interest in buying in then Mr. K can go to. Then I’m going to Mets.com and changing the slogan to:
Enjoy a $2 draft at Citi Field because WE’RE NUKING THIS BITCH”
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
HAHAHA ‘Nuking this Bitch’ !!
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
LOL, sounds good to me. Obviously some guys will not be traded due to age and contract status. Not off the table obviously but…. guys like Niese, Thole and Davis are not going anywhere and most likely neither is Dickey. The rest of the team, have at it.
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Yea based on our conversations yesterday I would be very content with Wright, Thole, and Ike to move forward once the dust settles.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
I’d say only Ike & Niese. Thole hasn’t showed me enough to warrant that status. The only thing he has going for him is that there aren’t any other in-house options at C.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Eh, young cheap catchers with decent upside are not commodities I want to trade. Especially considering we don’t have anyone even close to replacing him. That’s the same issue I have with trading Pagan. We don’t have a CF anywhere near ready. Tejada is more ready to replace Reyes than anyone is to replace Pagan. As for trading Wright? LOL, who wants to see Murphy be an everyday 3B?
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Go Big Murph!
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
For me there aren’t much options for Catcher. The position is really weak across the league so why get rid of him just to get rid of him.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
I’m not saying chuck him to the curb. More along the lines of selling on 1.25 to 1.50 to a dollar. If someone is willing to overpay, you consider it. But he’s not untouchable.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Well hell no one really is untouchable, even Pujols. But the likelihood of Wright, Ike, Niese and Thole being traded are minuscule at best.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
I’d say it’s a little early to sell, but I would throw that message out there. “hey, we’re open to offers, but it’ll take a lot to get what we have…” and sit back and listen to offers.
If things are not going well, I can see mid-late June things start happening in earnest.
I do expect a win one of these days. Really, i do.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
Why is it too early to sell? In fact maybe we get the most value from them by trading them this early. I don’t care if they do start clicking this team does not have the talent or chemistry to compete this year. Get the most talent you can. Go up to Reyes and say either take 5/75 today or get traded tomorrow. Try and re-sign Wright and get this process started.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
It’s not even May. it’s too early.
But yes, if something silly like Bumgarden & Belt for Reyes came up, i’d say you pull that tomorrow. And that offer I know is unrealistic, but you get my point.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Too early for what NJ?
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
To blow everything up. I have no issue dropping a nuke on this team, just not prior to May.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Why is May some magic number? They are not competitive as currently built. The quicker they and we admit that the better. Again, I think the longer you wait the less talent you receive back. If you can get back more for Reyes because you are getting him 2 extra months? Maybe those 2 months are enough to net another pitching prospect. Beltran? are you waiting for another injury? Pelfrey? sure. Take them all.
saltygary
4/21/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
What’s the difference between pulling the trigger now and June for you. Is it not giving up hope for a turn around, fear of PR backlash?
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
That’s my question. IF you were say the Red Sox who have struggled out of the gate, wouldn’t you be more likely right now to give the farm so to speak for Reyes?
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
This is the team Sandy put together. To have him start bringing in the wrecking back a tenth of the way into the season is just ludacrisp, as per Iron Mike T. Look, if they aren’t going any where now (which I am assuming 99% of this fanbase thinks), going into full out firesale mode now is dumb. D – U – M dumb. There is the 0.4875% chance they go on a 22-3 run and are in it. So we understand that going on that run ain’t happening. So what do you have? You have a bad team with no one looking to buy high. People are going to look at this team, understand they have no revenue from attendance and will look to get players on the cheap from the Mets to give them salary relief.
You have Wright and Reyes as the only trade chips of value at the moment. Maybe Pagan gets hot. Same for Beltran. Lets let them build up some trade value. Young comes back and pitches well. Capuano shows some decent stuff…. Again, all trade chips. And you have 75% of the league who has no clue if they are buyers or sellers.
This team infuriates me, but not waiting a little while is stupid. Throw out to the masses that the team will entertain offers. And then the waiting game starts. OH NO, Rolen goes down to a season ending injury. Ring Ring… “Mr. Alderson, would you consider half the farm and my first born for Wright?” A retarded hypothetical, i know, but you get the Bob Ross picture that I’m painting here.
I am not an optomist with this team, but not attacking this in an intellegent way has led this team to where it is. And I hope the head marine in charge is smart enough to know that. In fact, it’s his waiting out the market that got Capuano and Young on cheap deals, so I have faith that he’ll do just that.
TRS86
4/21/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Not much difference in what you are saying and what we are saying. Make them available now and perhaps you get a better offer. If not then so be it, but waiting just for the sake of waiting for a magical run would be twice as foolish.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
True enough, but pulling the trigger just to pull the trigger is not smart either. That’s all I’m saying. Let’s be smart about this and not just reactionary.
TRS86
4/21/2011-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Yeah like I said, I would open up the bidding early does not mean you have to take the first offer.
saltygary
4/21/2011-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
We’ll this is not Sandy’s team, this is Sandy’s mess. He was given 10m to fill half a roster. The guys he brought in are really indifferent to everything that is really going on.
In the off-season there was no decent value of Reyes and Beltran so they couldn’t trade them yet. Also it’s a bad message to blow up the team before the tickets are bought, they had to give the team a chance. The team has failed. These aren’t close calls, overall the team can’t compete.
Now Reyes and Beltran have regained value. An AL team would love to get Beltran in a part time OF and DH role. Plenty of teams would love to get Reyes to make a push forward. We have value now but unfortunately the collective pieces just don’t work for the Mets. So lets capitalize on the opportunities and get this team better for the long term.
TRS86
4/21/2011-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
I agree Salty.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I still think it’s too early. Not because this team is going anywhere, but b/c the majority of the other teams might not have determined if they’re competing or not this year.
Then again…I’ve been reading that Gardner this year has been largely a disappointment for the Yanks and consensus is that someone like Beltran would be a big upgrade.
TRS86
4/21/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Yeah it may be too early to pull the trigger but not too early to start taking offers. A team may actually be more desperate now than they will be in 2 months.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
I haven’t looked around yet to see if one can listen but RA Dickey’s post game interview last night summed it all up very nicely. He hit the nail on the head.
Until collectively, the mindset changes, neither will the level of play.
It’s not a dearth of overall talent. There’s enough there not to be in last place.
It’s not the manager, as we’ve seen 2 come and go, on the third and the same problems manifesting itself. Although I have to admit I have no idea what TC was thinking last night with the bunting, especially in the 9th. But he’s not the only manager that does that. And I’ll be not happy if Murphy isn’t in there tonight and tomorrow, lefties be damned.
As RA said, they need to stop telling themselves it’ll all turn around and be honest as to where they’re at.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
That’s still the question I have. I was angry at Willie for bunting late in the game with Reyes at 1B, I was angry at Jerry for bunting late in the game with Reyes at 1B and now I am angry at Terry for bunting late in the game with Reyes at 1B. I see a pattern and either we have had 3 crappy managers or for some reason they don’t trust Reyes to steal late in the game.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
TC is not differentiating himself apart from Willie or Jerry as of yet. A little frustrating. Who’s the dude that didn’t stick around for the Met job and took the Pittsburgh job? Who’d have thought he would be in a better position than the Mets job. yikes.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think we can blame Terry. I think there is a reason that all 3 managers have chosen to do this. The rest of TC decisions are mostly manageable and I think it’s too early to judge him. However, this Reyes stuff is maddening. Here you have one of the best base stealers in the game and for some reason he’s continually either stuck on 1st late in the game or bunted to 2nd. We don’t have the hitters to waste an out getting from 1st to 2nd. Besides, that places a ton of pressure on the next guy up to get a single to drive in the run. Let/make Reyes steal the base and make something happen.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Brian, on AA posted this comment and graphic in the post game thread last night. (I couldn’t copy the matrix so including the link.). He’s discussing the mindset of bunting vs. swinging away given the outs.
‘He should’ve never been put in that position to begin with. I’ll never understand why “baseball people” want to sacrifice when trailing in the 9th. Don’t they realize that they’re only hurting their chances to score by giving away an out? Haven’t broken this out in a while, but the run expectancy matrix proves it:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTE8dsJYJcLtnFYWtTecSGEQf-wHc2kXlBHtmje4wUiz18KxhGD&t=1
‘In conclusion, giving away outs is dumb. It is really, really dumb. For real.’
****************************************
I’m thinking it’s an overall mindset with most managers, not just the Mets and Reyes.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I am just not sure. Somehow I think if Bourn had gotten on down by 1 run with no outs then he would have been on 2B without anyone telling him anything and THEN would have been bunted to 3B. I think the managers see something defective with Reyes and late inning baserunning. I swear I do. It makes too much sense that there has to be an issue with Reyes if 3 managers in a row are doing it no matter the situation.
njstuckintx
4/21/2011-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Who get’s the blame on poor fundies and who called the sac bunt?
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
TC on the sac bunt. Can’t blame him for the poor fundies as he is no miracle worker. My question still remains why is it that he, Jerry and Willie ALL no matter the situation refused to force the issue and make Reyes steal late in the game. The common thread here is that those managers all feel/felt more comfortable giving up a sure out than risking forcing Reyes to steal late in the game.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Because Jose is a mental midget who cannot be relied on when the chips are really down.
Unless you are just needing a beautiful smile framed by real cute mini-dreads.
TRS86
4/21/2011-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
I am not willing to go that far yet but damn something must be the reason. It can’t be that 3 managers are idiots.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Well, I am known for hyperbole by some…
I agree. Willie most definitely was not an idiot, and I am pretty sure Collins–while a tad conservative and annoying with the bunting and handedness–is also not. Jerry? Not the best.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
IDK, just because all 3 did it doesn’t mean it was the best call, or they were doing it b/c there’s something fundamentally wrong with Reyes. I think the point is most managers do it in that situation with most players.
And according to the odds, bunting with anyone in that situation more often than not reduces the odds of you scoring. So why do it at all?
TRS86
4/21/2011-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
With Jerry and Willie I used to think that. Maybe that they were to passive, not aggressive. However now that Collins is here and Sandy looming overhead, whom you know believes in stat analysis, they have to believe they have a better chance scoring the run with the bunt than allowing Reyes to steal. That to me is indicative of Reyes, sorry. I know I could be totally wrong but that’s where I am at this point. Hell he might have been out by a mile but I think that if it were Pagan on 1B then he would have went on his own.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
My point is they’re doing it with everyone on first, not just Reyes.
And the stats indicate it’s a dumb idea to do it just about every time.
TRS86
4/21/2011-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
Maybe you are right, I would need to do more research to see what other managers are doing with their leadoff hitter on 1B with no outs late in the game. Seems to me like teams with guys like Bourn are hitting the ground running.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Off topic, but this writer is just an idiot:
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/sportatorium/2011/04/welcome_back_to_earth_texas_ra.php
He makes Martino look like a Pulitzer Prize winner
kingman 26
4/21/2011-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Why you read this crap is beyond me.
And NFL players do and have missed games to be there for the births of their children.
fne2864a
4/21/2011-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
TRS…Do you think its a lack of trust for Reyes, or a lack of trust for the line-up? It seems that either he did not trust Reyes to steal second; or Thole to bat and get him in scoring postion IMO. On a side note I know most of you will not agree with me on this, but how much longer are we going to make excuses for David Wright, I like David, however he seems to be a strikeout machine, and it seems to plauge him every season. The question of the century is; do we trade him? I am aware that he is the face of the franchise, however, that does not win games.
TRS86
4/21/2011-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
First off, no you do not trade Wright. He is indeed the face of the franchise and you have absolutely no one to take his place on or off the field.
2nd as for Reyes, I think it’s a lack of trust in Reyes myself. I would have thought maybe a hit and run at minimum like they did earlier with Pagan and Murphy.
saltygary
4/21/2011-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think Wright will be so bad if the mentality went from contend to rebuild. He’s worn out and still can’t figure out how he can carry the entire team.
If the sale begins they need to meet with Wright to insure he’s bought in. If he’s dome and wants out then you send him packing. My belief is he will do anything he is asked of by the franchise.
TRS made a good point yesterday about locking him up. Fire sale are never good PR but I am sure fans would be comforted with a press conference with Wright saying there is a new direction and he’s invested in the plan.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
I agree.
It is beyond obvious that Wright is trying to his a grand slam every at bat.
And he is clearly one whom the losing bothers immensely.
I swear, when Reyes and Beltran were giggling with the Astros last night, I wanted to set Jose’s little dreads on fire and smash Beltran’s fat face.
saltygary
4/21/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Yea man. When Reyes ran past 2nd and started laughing with the SS I literally yelled to the TV “WTF are you laughing at”. My wife looked at me and said it is way to early for this shit (meaning dealing with a pissed off Mets fan).
kingman 26
4/21/2011-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Agree totally. Beltran too.
Contentedness with losing just cannot be good.
tkfj2
4/21/2011-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Did they piss in your cheerios?
I don’t why I bother responding to you anymore. You can play your hyperbolic games, but criticizing the only 2 players who showed up last night, is beyond comprehension.
Continue to paint Jose in your biased light and ignore his value to this organization over his career. Try replacing his value at SS, you can’t.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Please. Many of my comments today have been attempts to be funny and/or positive and/or constructive.
As is the post up above.
Hmmm, think Jose being able to steal second and not get doubled off might have helped his value to the team last night??
And you don’t have to respond to me; I greatly prefer communicating with rational adults.
tkfj2
4/21/2011-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
It is difficult to tell with you. I remember a different Kingman before your hiatus.
Oh well, life goes on.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
I agree—I definitely was a major optimist before last summer….then I stopped being in denial about the nature of this team. The people who said they were soft and heartless were, in many cases, right I think. I really don’t think Jose and Beltran and Bay care as much as they should about winning.
Hey, I have supported Jose since he was in the minors, really I have. But I just cannot stand the way he plays the game sometimes. Yeah, he is a great talent, and yeah he has a lot of value, but I think his admitted lack of focus and his softness hurt the team as well.
I know sometimes when I am trying to be funny it might come off as anger, but really it rarely is.
I have followed Jose his whole career and just wish he would have the intensity of Wright, Murphy, or Dickey, that’s all.
tkfj2
4/21/2011-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I completely understand your viewpoint. I guess my frustration has not allowed me to appreciate your new posting style.
I guess I am not high on the “intensity” argument, but I can definitely see your point.
TRS86
4/21/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think it’s fair to cast Bay in this light. We have not seen enough of him to know that he does not care and every report we have read coming from Boston talk about how professional and dedicated to winning he was. It’s unfortunate that he crashed head first into a wall ending his season last year but the very fact that he crashed into a wall going after a ball is something we should give him credit for, for now.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
I hear you, and I am glad to see each other’s points; really I am.
I know not everyone agrees and much of this is a chicken and egg type thing—does intensity lead to winning or do they just SEEM more intense when they are winning?
kingman 26
4/21/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry buddy, but after playing less than 100 games, getting 16 mil, and doing nothing baseball-related for 6 months, not only should he have been there when Collins asked this winter, but he should have beat Wright to camp….maybe if he had, he would have been in shape for the season and not suffered this ridiculous injury swinging a bat.
TRS86
4/21/2011-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman do you know if Bay or the team decided for him not to make the cross country trek for 2 days? (one day of light workouts and 1 day of press interviews with our buddy Rubin).
kingman 26
4/21/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
No I don’t, and yes I am aware I could be wrong. But I am talking about more than that.
While it seems like eons ago now, I remember Wright smiling while working out with the minor leaguers long before every other veteran arrived.
IMHO, Bay should have been there then.
Seriously buddy, six months of doing nothing, getting paid all that money, and having a rotten first half of a year?
He should have been there waiting outside when the grounds crew first arrived to open the gates to camp!
But if interviews with Rubin were part of the deal, OK, he gets a pass!
kingman 26
4/21/2011-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, and Murph and Dickey showed up last night too. I don’t remember seeing them giggling with the Astros.
Please.
tkfj2
4/21/2011-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
You are right. In my haste to reply I completely ignored 2 influential pieces to keeping us in contention last night.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think you’re ever going to see Murph giggling with his own teammates, let alone the opposition.
That’s one intense young man. He’s almost a throwback to ballplayers from a century ago.
Heck…I saw a segment on SNY some two years where Murph was playing some interactive video game on Mets weekly with Julie what’s-her-name and he wasn’t smiling then either. It was about competing and nothing but competing for him.
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
Threads are deeply embedded now and I can’t find a place to put this comment so here goes…
Concerning Wright – I think he’s trying to carry that team on his back. And he clearly cannot. Don’t know if it has to do with his talent level, his mentality or both but I think there’s a correlation there.
There must be some reason he looked so much more locked in with Delgado and a Beltran-in-his-prime type players in the lineup.
saltygary
4/21/2011-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
It’s all about that M4D. This guy is a true gamer, he just wants to win. 2009 is the perfect example. His worst season because there was no one around him. Last year was better but still the same problem.
When he had a healthy Beltran and Delgado around him he didn’t step in the batters box and say “if I don’t do something here we are going to lose”.
kingman 26
4/21/2011-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Totally, completely agree.
fne2864a
4/21/2011-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
Ok back to my office; from the airport. I apologize for being irrational; regarding DW. I guess I am just an agitated Mets fan, that does not see the light at the end of the tunnel for this team anytime soon. That being said, i will make every effort to keep it positive on this blog….Lets Go Mets!!!! Please beat the Astros!!!!
metsfan4decades
4/21/2011-5:24pm at 5:24 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, just my opinion but no need to apologize.
I’m reading around there are many a Met fans who feels that way about DWright.
Me? My response above pretty much sums up my mindset. To me, he is the face of the franchise both on and off the field. Doesn’t mean he has to be a superstar. Jeter certainly isn’t…..
He’s a damn fine ball player though and always shows up to play, not just collect a paycheck. Other things that impressed me was he’s the youngest MLB player to ever start a charity in his name. And he didn’t just attach his name to it either, he’s very much involved.
If we just had a big bat like Delgado in that lineup. Maybe Ike can step up to the plate in that regards.
saltygary
4/21/2011-6:18pm at 6:18 pm (UTC -4)
Unless you make things real personal over here I don’t see why there is a need to apologize. Most people don’t agree with what I have to say, but that what makes this place awesome. I can throw something out there and not have to worry about someone calling me an ass, most of the time anyway. We are just a bunch of fans trying to figure things out and in the end we have absolutely no control of how it pans out.
fne2864a
4/21/2011-11:50pm at 11:50 pm (UTC -4)
Ok the Mets WON!!!!!! yeahhhh…sitting in my living room hoping that the our team can play the next series against the D-Backs with the same pop
))