" I hear he has one hell of a knuckleball !!"
Here we are on May fourth, and I don’t know about you but I am truly pissed about last nights Mets lost. I am so ticked off that I barely want to even talk about this team !
Today as I mentioned above is May fourth. It is known in many science fiction circles and ” May the Fourth Be With You !” day. If you have a Face book account I urge you utilize a quote from the movie as your status.
There are so many quotes from that movie that aptly describe this season’s Mets season thus far.
Here are the five quotes that I feel best fit.
5. ” Do – or do not there is no try !!”
4. ” There is barely enough life on this team to fill a ice cube !! ( paraphrased!)
3. ” Everything’s fine – fine . How about you ?”
2. “I have a bad feeling about this !”
1. WE’RE DOOMED !!”
If there any quotes that I have missed or you want to display that you are a bigger Star Wars geek than me , well then please feel free to write your comments and quotes in the comments section.
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets alumni celebrating birthdays today include :
One time Atlanta Braves infielder and current Mets bench coach, Ken Oberkfell is 55 (1956) .
Middle reliever from the ’05 season, Manny Aybar is 39 (1972) .
Utilityman from the ’05 season, Miguel Cairo is 37 (1974).
Thrid string catcher from ’08-’09, Robinson Cancel is 35 (1976) .
The Toronto Blue Jays claimed middle reliever, Pete Walker of the New York Mets on waivers on May 4, 2002. Pete spent the better half of seven years in the Mets system, but he never became that shutdown closer the Mets needed.
Mo Vaughn smells like Bantha Poodoo !!
282 comments
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-7:04am at 7:04 am (UTC -4)
Any game you score 6 runs, you should expect to win the game. We did not mainly because of our pitching. SP pitching was the #1 question coming into this season. So far, it’s being answered as in ‘not very good’.
Ironically the 2 pitchers I thought would be decent have so far been the 2 with the most problems: Dickey and Pelf.
And the news yesterday that Mejia won’t be joining the rotation until the end of next year, if not later, is not good news.
Last night’s game was very disappointing. Along with Dickey’s rough start, we left double digits on the base paths – again.
Thole’s defense behind the plate didn’t help either.
Our bench has given practically zero production.
It’s going to be a long season. Sigh….
gategem
5/4/2011-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
My hope is that Dickey’s knuckleball will once again regain its dance with the coming of hot and humid weather this summer. However, if it comes to pass that the league has solved Dickey I’m not sure what a one pitch hurler is capable of adjusting to compensate. The worst case scenario is if Dickey was a one year wonder but if that should be the case he at last translated that year into financial security (not in a big way when compared to other players but financial security compared to the average man nonetheless).
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
Well he’s got three pitches, 4 technically. the two knuckleballs that do behave differently, the fastball (that’s faster than Youngs) and a changeup that I don’t think he usually throws and probably shouldn’t as the knuckle works better as a change of speed anyway.
I think he’s tried to make too many adjustments off last year, plus Thole being a mess hasn’t helped.
ajgmets
5/4/2011-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Regarding the “Fourth Be With You” nonsense..I got nuthin’..Not a fan and couldn’t come up with any quotes from the entire worn out, far too lengthy ridiculous series of unbelievably successful films of which I’ve seen none in its entirety.other that the “4th Be With “You” and “I’m you’re Fatha Luke” (though the little robots were cool..or was that Mr Johnny Five ?)
As far as the continuing Mets ineptitude..I have only a few issues from last night’s display of pony league baseball from Citi field.
First, I’d like to think the Thole Only catching Dickey nonsense is over..quite simply a young catcher with little big league experience can only be expected to be so good and if the manager’s response is that “Paulino hasn’t caught a knuckle ball before” then it’s yet another example of this organization’s Mickey Mouse development. He’s big leaguer..he gets paid well..make him catch every one of Dickey’s BP/side sessions and don’t be afraid of using him. Obviously Thole is no Rick Ferrell or even George Kotteras..seeing Collins hit for Duda in the 5th in a Left/Right match up switch and then not hitting for Thole as the next hitter was ridiculous.
Obviously this was far from RA Dickey’s finest night and though he gave up 6 runs, the club continued to be even worse than anemic with RISP going 2-12 whilst the Giants won this game on the strength of their 5-16 production with RISP.
I will as I’ve done since day one continue questioning the inclusion of Scott Hairston on this roster .. I say let the Pridie kid play everyday until Pagan comes back (hopefully this weekend).
As for more off the field Reyes trade talk..it “ain’t” going away…Of late, the SS has looked a bit happier and I’ve even seen that infectious Reyes grin of years gone by on several occasions ans it’s showing in his play more every day (Could it be Free Agent to be itis?) ..his 6 for 6 on base night is indicative of what the young man can and needs to do consistently. If we can get him to quit swinging at the first pitch in over 60% of his at bats…the sky would be the limit on his OBP.and the team’s opportunities to be productive as a whole would improve dramtically.
That’s much more than I wanted to get into today…so for all you Sci Fi Freaks “Happy 4th Be with Y’all” & LGM..
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-7:12am at 7:12 am (UTC -4)
Just want to give kudos to Mr. North Jersey for the Shoutbox on this site. I know it says ‘Beta’ right now but I’m hoping it’s here to stay.
At least something is getting better and better this season…..
TRS86
5/4/2011-7:31am at 7:31 am (UTC -4)
What a weird game. Who would have been upset last night if Terry would have lost trying to use the squeeze play with Thole? Step outside the box and play each game like it’s the last game in the movie Major League.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-7:38am at 7:38 am (UTC -4)
I would have been less upset if he tried the squeeze play there than I was when I saw he had the bunt sign on for Ike? Ike bunting? Really? What the heck was Terry thinking?
kingman 26
5/4/2011-8:11am at 8:11 am (UTC -4)
Ike bunting was a sign of incredible weakness.
I tend to give managers a lot of rope, but Ike is–without question–the team’s best hitter AND most clutch hitter right now.
Having him bunt? He never ever bunted professionally they said, so could he have been doing it on his own?
Terrible, weak, baseball.
TRS86
5/4/2011-8:12am at 8:12 am (UTC -4)
That being said, man has he looked rough against LH this year. Gotta face them to get better though.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
I cannot imagine that was Ike’s idea. But I don’t know that for sure.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-8:09am at 8:09 am (UTC -4)
Well, I can understand that Collins is distracted; clearly he is focused laser-like on the big picture.
Who has time to think about winning one measly game when one is CLEARLY focused on setting up the rotation for the playoffs??
TRS86
5/4/2011-8:11am at 8:11 am (UTC -4)
LOL, leave it alone Kingman. If he wants to believe that, who are we to stop him?
kingman 26
5/4/2011-8:26am at 8:26 am (UTC -4)
I am sorry; seriously, won’t do it again.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
Liar. (see below)
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-8:16am at 8:16 am (UTC -4)
I’ve seen this comment quite a bit lately and not sure where it’s coming from. Did Terry state that somewhere along the way?
Even so, I’ll take a manager who publicly states his team has what it takes to compete, over one who has raised the white flag a month into the season.
TRS86
5/4/2011-8:19am at 8:19 am (UTC -4)
Just Kingman giving Ceetar a hard time. LOL.
Ceetar
5/4/2011-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
Kingman doesn’t have reading comprehension, so when I say things like ‘playoffs’ which is still Terry’s goal despite that half of the people here would rather talk about trading Reyes for gutshot prospects than what this team needs to do to get there.
Simply beleving the Mets can turn it around and make the playoffs is not an impossibility. It’s kind of why they play the games.
Besides, plenty of people have Terry and Sandy thinking ‘big picture’ for 2013, so why would he be focused on winning one game, despite the evidence that he was? But he did a terrible job last night.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
You don’t have reading, writing, spelling, or thinking comprehension.
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
I’m not that the one that picks random words out my comments and argues against points I don’t make.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
OK, truce—serious question—can you cite to me the reasons why we should expect the team as currently constructed to pass at least 3 teams in our division in the standings?
Seriously–have you looked over the new Marlins—their batch of young, productive players?
I want them to win every bit as much as you do—but it looks pretty bleak right now, doesn’t it?
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
you don’t believe my serious arguments when I make them, and you shoot down my points as “he’s soft” or “he sucks”.
I’ve long ago reached the point of finding it worthless to enumerate my thinking with stats are arguments with you. But here’s one. You’re going to blow it off with “He’s a an Ollie-like headcase” even though you don’t know the guy at all, but..
I’m not denying that a lot of it is tinged with hope on my side. But it’s not unrealistic hope. I believe Pelfrey will still approximate his overall line from last year. He’s gone stretches where he’s struggled, badly, before. But he also has a long(ish) career of data to fall back on. He’s been messing around with a different pitching style so far, supposedly because he’s had trouble with the sinker. Which I guess is fine. Do you really want him throwing a pitch he’s not able to execute? He’s putting in the work, and I believe he’ll get back on track. Sure, it’s possible he’ll never be a successful pitcher again. It happens in the majors all the time, but it’s not _that_ common that guys just lose it. I’m not projecting him to be an ace, merely an above average pitcher that keeps the team in most games and provides value. Something approximating his career numbers. (understanding that he was probably rushed to the majors and his career ERA/etc is probably slightly inflated over his actual ability at this point. )
kingman 26
5/4/2011-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
Well, that’s funny because I actually still have a lot of hope for Pelf too.
However, he probably either is in fact hurt, or really has an IQ of about 45.
He is too strong, throws too hard, has too good of a repertoire of pitches, was too good last year, etc. to simply suck like this.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
To me, he’s a mental midget. Not having a strong catcher calling the game behind the plate + the NY nonsense that goes on means if he was traded to KC or Seattle or Arizona, he’ll go back to Big Pelf, vs. the tiny pelf he is at the moment.
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it’s a head thing. I don’t usually buy those arguments because it’s really hard to analyze someone you don’t know, through first and second hand quotes that are often out of context.
I blame Warthen for a lot of it (And I don’t excuse the player before someone pipes in with that). I’ve never liked the guy. I feel like he’s slow to come out on the mound when he needs to, and he’s slow to get guys turned around, if it all, when they struggle.
The problem with Pelfrey, and why a lot of sabermetricians don’t like him, is that he doesn’t strike guys out. So there are always going to be games, and luck will put those games in bunches sometimes, where he just gives up lots of hits that go through. Thats the nature of a “ball in play” pitcher. I don’t know if Youngs couple of inches make all the difference in why he gets so much weak contact, but regardless, the defense needs to be up on it’s game when he pitches, which was one of my concerns with Murphy playing and perhaps not being up to snuff at 2B with DP balls early on.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Not sure if any caught the booth talking last week about Blanco calling up Pelf and asking ‘what the hell are you doing out there’?
They went on to say that Blanco said Pelf needs a strong hand behind the plate and he often had to ‘guide’ him through a game.
Kinda sounds like it’s a lot mental with Pelf.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
4D, which is another reason I’m not overly impressed with Thole. He’s young and can hit and the Mets are extremely thin at the position, but he’s got a noodle for an arm and i’m not impressed with either the D nor the game calling. He is far from untouchable, in my mind. Maybe Paulino will start to do a little mentoring…
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Hope this response is nested under njtx comment on Thole…
How about exploring the idea of turning Wilmer Flores into a catcher?
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Is tall an advantage for catcher? If not then he’s out there too.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
They turned Biggio from a Catcher to a 2B to a CF, so stranger things have happened. If his mobility is the question, why the hell not?
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
he has the arm for it, and is supposed to have good hands. Not a normal catcher build though.
I wonder how long it takes to get someone passable as a catcher? I have only ever done it in little league, and the standards there are pretty low!
kingman 26
5/4/2011-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
Anyone but YOU can see that what the team needs “to get there” is to make moves–possibly like trading Reyes–to obtain MUCH MUCH MORE talent.
darknova306
5/4/2011-8:18am at 8:18 am (UTC -4)
Questionable bullpen, awful rotation, the same yearly struggles with RISP… and they face Lincecum today. At least this loss should go by pretty quickly with how he pitches.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-8:28am at 8:28 am (UTC -4)
MLBTR:
‘Giants have discussed Jose Reyes’
The Giants have discussed Jose Reyes as a possible trade target, according to Mychael Urban of CSNBayArea.com. San Francisco is considering addressing its shortstop problems with a trade and Urban hears that the Mets have decided to field offers for Reyes and his $11MM salary this summer.
********
Jeeze, that statement makes it sound like a salary dump.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-8:33am at 8:33 am (UTC -4)
I was seconds away from making sure you all–especially TRS–knew of this.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-8:39am at 8:39 am (UTC -4)
On that note, interesting article over there on the rebuilding of the Indians.
Seems like right now, even the GM is surprised on how well they’re doing this year as I’m assuming they expected the rebuilding to take a couple of more years before they were relevant.
I very much fear this is probably the road Alderson and Co. will go down with the Mets. Given the fact that the farm system doesn’t have much in the way of trade chips (nice talent but not an abundance), this makes it all the more clear in order to get pieces they need, they’ll likely have to trade talent to get it. Translation – Reyes.
Damn you, Omar.
stickguy
5/4/2011-8:44am at 8:44 am (UTC -4)
Cleveland has the advantage of being in a really bad division right now. The Mets don’t, but who knows what it will look like in 1-2 years. Things can change quickly.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
As far as Cleveland? Yeah…I get the impression even the fans are holding their breath, waiting for the shoe to drop.
But as far as the Mets, we’re not beating anyone outside of the division never mind the NL east. I still see this as largely the fault of the pitching. First 2 weeks, hard to say who was worse – the BP or the SP.
Now, the BP has stabilized somewhat but the SP isn’t getting it done. Sure we left many on base last night but when you put up 6 runs, if you have credible pitching, you should win. Right now, we have 5 question marks.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
True, the Braves and the Nats will be dramatically improved in 2 years and we will then be fighting the Phils for 4th place….
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Not sure why you think this team can’t be competitive in 2 years. No one has a clue what this team will look like in 2013, let alone the other NL east teams.
Way too far out to project right now.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
The Indians were horrible for the past many years, and sold off everyone of their decent guys, due to salary constraints and they’ve been crazy lucky with all their trades panning out. Or, just a competent GM…
kingman 26
5/4/2011-8:36am at 8:36 am (UTC -4)
Rusty my friend, I cannot get too disappointed.
What do we really have here?
We have a very good young first baseman, a very good closer, a very good shortstop and MAYBE in Young a very good starter, and what else?
Serious mediocrity in the rotation, a so-so bullpen, three former stars(Wright, Bay, and Beltran) who all are–to varying degrees–shells of what they once were, and our bench/depth is clearly among the very worst in baseball.
We also have a manager who unfortunately is apparently wedded to the ancient ideas of terrible addiction to bunting and handedness.
We also have close to nothing in the minors on the way, and our division may have two of the best teams in baseball at its top, along with the always dangerous Braves and the improved Nats.
There’s nothing really here to suggest improvement anytime soon.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
I like Beato – closer in waiting?
I’d trade Bay in a NY minute of they could.
Beltran is gone, get as much as they can for him. Helps that he’s off to a good start.
I certainly don’t see a possibility of a turn around overnight. Would have been more confident if Mejia was joining the rotation next year.
I have no idea where we’re going to get a credible SP staff from come next year.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
“I have no idea where we’re going to get a credible SP staff from come next year.”
Trading Reyes??
You better be a really good shot with that 6-shooter from this distance and in the rain….
rustyjr
5/4/2011-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
Look I know deep down inside the Mets arnt making the postseason but I like to be as positive as possible
gategem
5/4/2011-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
“You better be a really good shot with that 6-shooter from this distance and in the rain….”
LOL Reminds me of an old song:
“Lay that pistol down, babe
Lay that pistol down
Pistol packin’ mama
Lay that pistol down” LOL
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Trading Reyes isn’t netting us a credible pitching staff next year.
No one is giving us a good, ML pitcher for a 1/2 year rental.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
And I really don’t understand why anyone wants to see Reyes traded mid season ’cause we’ll be trading low.
Hence, my six shooter comment.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
I still completely disagree. Reyes+ an extension gets you a guy with top of the rotation potential.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Because I don’t believe Reyes will do an extension – not unless the Giants are his ‘choice of team’. Why would he sign an extension when he can have his pick of several teams come off season – possibly with better offers?
He lives in Long Island with his family. Moving to the west coast might not be his preferance.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
Might not be, then you trade him to another team that will give you that stud potential pitcher. There are many others out there that would love to inherit his services that are in the middle of a pennant race.
saltygary
5/4/2011-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Yes it does TRS. Any team will be happy to give up talent to have Reyes locked in. Most teams trading for Reyes will want to lock him in. If Reyes is traded I trust it will be done the right way.
I am positive that the FO knows the best way to put a death blow into the franchise is to dump Reyes.
stickguy
5/4/2011-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
Oh, they will piece one together. just like this year!
If not traded, you still have Pelf and Dickey. Neise will continue to develop (still think he will be a stud). Maybe you get Harvey, Gee could be around.
beyond that, you get a Young (maybe the real one, maybe next years version) and whatever other filler parts you can pick up.
the trick will be to see if they take all the # saved on Reyes, and invest some into getting a pitcher that might cost real $$ (probably through a trade).
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
That’s just not good enough. In a division with Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Hamels, Hudson, Hanson, Straus soon, Zimmerman, Nolasco, Jar Jar, Beechy…. I am sure I have missed some, we will have to do better than at best Johan, Niese, Dickey, Pelfrey and Harvey. It’s just not even good enough on paper much less in real life where Johan may never be a #1 again, Niese is most likely a mid-rotation at best, Dickey will be up and down like a knuckle baller will always be, Pelf is Pelf and Harvey is still an unknown. Gee? who does not have a bunch of #5′s laying around.
Fact is we have to get an ace or it’s just not happening. In order to do that anytime soon it will have to be through trade.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
remember though that next year, Hudson wil be even older, straus will be in the rehab in the majors year, and Oswalt may be retired (or elsewhere, since he is not signed for next season).
looking 2 years ahead is always a total roll of the dice. You never know who steps up, who gets hurt or tails off, etc.
stickguy
5/4/2011-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
I would hold off for now on annointing the Marlins as one of the “best teams in baseball” based on a hot 1st month.
as to the rest of your points about the team, hard to argue.
I agree though with MF about Beato looking like a find. And also about trading Bay if any offer comes in. ever. for anything. And Beltran has been very good so far, frankly he looks like his old self for the most part, and pretty soon, teams will come calling for his bat, now that his knee seems to be a non factor.
Going a step further, I think it is time to put the sacred cow on the table for slaughter. They should be looking to extend Reyes if they can get a deal done that is not outrageous, but look to trade Wright.
all the reasons to trade Jose (to get talent, specifically pitching) go double for DW. “better” player, signed longer, so he should bring back a boat load of young talent (much more than Jose will).
Yes, I know he is the “face” of the team, but right now, that is a BFD. the fans are fed up, and the team fading into irrelevancy. So what if they upset some teenage girls that think he is cute? But Ike an Armani suit, and have him pose for some beefcake pictures, and they can love him instead.
Wright is a shell of what he used to be, and in many ways, seems to be fading early. instead of peaking at 28, he peaked at 25, and now is playing like a 32 YO on the back end of his productive career (like say, Bay?). IMO, a LT extension past 2013 (they control him that long with options) will be a total albatross contract, and probably not happening.
So if DW can get Bumgarner+ a couple more juicy prospects (or the equivilant from another team), pull the trigger, and fire the shot across the bow (send a message).
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
Moving on, they can not and will not trade Wright. Might as well talk about them re-signing Seaver and placing Foster in the Mets HOF. It’s just not happening and not really even worth our time.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
It is no where near as far fetched an idea as you seem to think it is.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
It’s so far fetched that Pelfrey winning the CY THIS year has a better chance. It’s more far fetched than Ceetar pronouncing this is a rebuilding year.
kistics
5/4/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Why not? I think it’s much easier to replace Wright than Reyes.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
It’s not about replacing just production on the field. Which is why Sandy will see it that same way. Sandy nor the Wilpons will be trading David Wright. At least not until summer of 2013 if he has not gotten an extension.
kistics
5/4/2011-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
I agree that the chance of Wright being traded this season is slim to none. And I also agree that his value to the team off the field is much greater than any other player on the team. But as far as his production on the field, it should be easier to replace than Jose’s.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
I thought the new FO was supposed to be more analytical, and making decisions based on winning more games (putting th ebest product on the field).
It was supposed to be an Omar move to sign/trade guys based on the whims of the fans.
kistics
5/4/2011-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
So you thought….
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
If you take position out of the equation, which you should when looking at a lineup anyway, Wright still offers more than Reyes. Unless you think Wright will hit like this all year. Wright’s OPS and OPS+ averages are better than even Reyes’ career year.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
I have to agree with one point: trading Wright will likely net way better talent back than Reyes at this point. Wright is not a half year rental.
That being said, I’ll be surprised if the FO pulls that trigger.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
when you have a lot of holes to fill, sometimes you need to convert your 1 valuable piece into multiple ones.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
True, but again not happening. I am again willing to bet my fanhood that if either is traded it is Reyes and not Wright.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
On another note, interesting:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2011/05/04/2011-05-04_wilpons_seen_as_dodging_mccourt_fate.html
The Mets are currently struggling on the field and at the box office, but owner Fred Wilpon’s potential partners believe the club will be able to turn things around quickly, according to financial industry sources. The investment groups believe general manager Sandy Alderson will build a competitive team within two or three years; an improved club means increased attendance, television ratings and revenue
Ceetar
5/4/2011-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
Well duh. I mean, that’s why they’re investing right? They think the team will improve after they invest. The whole “buy low, sell high” thing?
Resigning Reyes after they invest would go a long way. Let’s get the partial sale done so we can get the extension done and stop with the idiots in the media repeating the fire sale mentality that’s not going to happen.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
just getting the minority partner in does not mean there stillisn’t going to be a fire sale. If, of course, the FO feels they need to do that to rebuild properly, they will do it.
actually the perfect time. Can blame madoff (giving them cover for what really needs to be done anyway), and the fan base is already pissed or apathetic, so what do you have to lose?
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
i wasn’t related them. There won’t be a fire sale because sucking for 2-3 years and drawing 10k fans in NY just isn’t a wise business move and Sandy’s not going to ditch talented players just for the sake of cutting payroll for a couple of years. He’s said that he didn’t come here to operate a small market team, and I suspect if the Wilpons forced a fire sale, Alderson wouldn’t be the GM in 2013.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
Let me ask you then Cheetar. If they re-sign Reyes where do they get an ace level starting pitcher?
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Duh. You trade Wright!
actually, the simple answer is, you grow your own. pretty much the only way to do it. Unless you can do a MiL trade and get lucky.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Which, if we had both of Mejia and Harvey close to ready, I would have way more confidence in.
With Mejia out, I think we’re in trouble next year.
kistics
5/4/2011-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Mets don’t get lucky. Mets get unlucky.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
and of course, an expensive 1/2 year rental for Reyes is not getting you an Ace, or an established high upside ML SP.
at best, you are getting a live arm prospect, that may or may not pan out.
the Giants might trade Wheeler (might, not likely). But not Bumgarner.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Again, we have no idea how desperate the Giants might be and if Reyes will give a contract window to the trade. If so his value skyrockets.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
reyes rental being traded for a top level ML established SP?
Might as well talk about them re-signing Seaver and placing Foster in the Mets HOF. It’s just not happening and not really even worth our time.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, that’s why almost every baseball insider is talking about the Mets trading Reyes. They obviously will be doing it for scrubs that are not even worth the 2 picks they would receive if he walks. Obviously Sandy has no idea what he is doing and will just take Chris Carter and Lora for Reyes.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Like MF knows, they will be doing it TO SAVE MONEY. not to get better in the next 1-2 years. TO CUT PAYROLL.
2 picks in June, 2012 (well, might not even be 2, depending on the new CBA) will of course cost $$ to sign (see the Wagner trade to know how much they like doing that!), but more importantly, will not be seeing citifield to at best late 2014, and probably later than that.
so whatever they get from those picks will not be relevant until Wright is gone anyway.
Letting Reyes walk 100% says they are going cheap and not worried about winning for a few years. AKA rebuilding.
I have said all along that they need to either shat or get off the pot (in or out, shut the door). Either spend and try to win, or clear out the dead wood, take the hit, and rebuild from the bottom up. Just stop trying to half ass it, and not accomplish anything.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
also, they are all talking about the Mets trading reyes because they are too broke to pay him.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
+1
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Reyes is automatically worth 2 high draft picks to the obtaining team even if he is traded August 31st so to think he can’t get a solid pitcher for his services in a pennant race for July-October AND 2 picks is foolish IMO.
Of course if you can’t get more than 2 picks then just hang on to him and get those 2 picks.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
If you are letting him walk for picks, you are conceding that you are rebuilding (since your talent level is decreasing for the next couple of years). So might as well trade the other older options (yes, I mean DW) along with the dead wood (bay) if possible, and get as many prospects in as you can.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Again you have 3 options Stick.
You trade him during the season for value worth more than 2 high draft picks.
You offer him arbitration and collect those 2 high picks.
You re-sign him.
There are basically no other options.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
They haven’t extended the CBA, have thye? So technically we are not sure if the 2 picks (type A) will still exist. But anyway, your logic is sound, but there is a 4th option (the wagner plan) which is dump just to save money.
but anyway, back to my real point, your options send a very different message.
trading for top talent (a pipe dream, but say it happens) or signing him means you are trying to “win now” or at least keep competitive.
letting him go for picks means you are willing to get worse for the next couple of years while rebuilding. And of course, your payroll will be taking a dive!
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
+11
stickguy
5/4/2011-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
that’s the way it is supposed to work. You get bad, you get cheap and retool, and get better.
Attendence might be down, but payroll should sink to match. And once the team starts winning, attendance will outpace the payroll.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
I would have gone with the “you watch yourself. I’ll be careful. you’ll be dead!” quote concerning the mets playoff chances. I don’t see Sandy-Wan Kenobi swooping in, light saber in hand to save said playoff hopes.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
a quote? The Phils to Pelf “Big Doofus, i am your father”.
slight paraphrase there.
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
Well, likely Pelfrey will be out of his yearly monthlong flounder by the time he takes them on again at the end of the month.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
it will also be in NY.
If I ran the team, I would not allow Pelf to ever pitch in CBP again. I would flat out skip him, and not care about hurting his feelings!
kistics
5/4/2011-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
Only guys I trust in big spots are Beltran, Ike and Murphy.
I’m sick of Wright striking out at the outside corner slider. My grandmother can throw a outside slider and he would swing at it. I’m sorry for being ignorant, but can’t he move in towards the plate just a little bit, so he can at least foul them off?
Also, Jose has been great so far. But not in RISP. He just gets too excited and gets too many pop-ups in high leverage situations.
And can someone tell Bay that he needs to lay off on the change ups? Ugh…
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Bay probably would if he could (or knew).
classic sign of a hitter getting old. The bat and reflexes slow down, so they “cheat” on the FB (start swinging early), so they are toast to a good off speed pitch.
and wright did seem to move in slightly. I still think it has to do with getting beaned, and also trying to become a dead pull HR hitter (that he isn’t).
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Wright certainly had a pretty clutch double last night only to be thwarted by the Mets below par 2ndary cast.
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
Which is yet again why bunting with your last hitter (Ike) last night was stupid. And while he hit a GIDP ball anyway, the pitch sequence and his swing sequence would’ve been different without that strike from bunting it foul. There is some logic to bunting with 1-2 and no outs, but not in that case because you don’t actually move two guys into scoring position (where the value of bunting is, the getting two runs) because the second runner is irrelevant. Wright would’ve tagged up on a fly ball from Ike.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Ike bunting was the dumbest managerial move of the night.
Terry = fail there.
stickguy
5/4/2011-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
I love the whole new attitude stuff (though the team plays hard, they are still sloppy at times), but overall, I am totally over the whole Terry thing.
Ceetar
5/4/2011-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I’m not going to kill Terry just yet, though I’ve seen plenty I don’t like too, but I’m hoping there’s an adjustment period and things will settle down. or something.
Also, I’m looking forward to another chance this weekend to get the full lineup together for more than 4innings.
kistics
5/4/2011-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
I would have liked to see Thole bunt last night for squeeze.
TRS86
5/4/2011-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Even Buster Phoney has this to say: the Giants “would have to give up a really, really good young player — the Mets presumably would ask for a top-of-the-line young pitcher,”
So again if not from the Giants, there will be a team out there desperate enough to pull the trigger.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
What do the Angels, Sox, Twins and possibly even the A’s have that could fit that bill? Anyone?
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Beuhler? Beuhler?
kistics
5/4/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
A’s have lots of good young pitchers.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
They also have a very good SS prospect in Grant Green. .318 .363 .520 .883 last season in high A ball.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
More like dumb enough – for a 1/2 year rental – but I suppose that’s why Sandy will be listening to offers.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
well, this is way too early for trade deadline talk (which is usually when you hear about guys being shopped).
so do it now, and it is much more than 1/2 a year.
and if you are going to, why wait, if you can get better talent back?
and of course, saving more salary is not going to come into play!
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Andy Martino’s latest post ends on the Reyes to Giants speculation ends with:
‘Of course, a few more nights like this and Reyes just might make himself untradeable. In a good way.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2011/05/04/2011-05-04_do_giants_know_way_to_get_jose.html?page=1
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
if anything, big nights make it more likely he gets traded.
The Giants (keeping on that them) will salivate more. And Sandy knows that the price as a FA just went up again.
so that means the potential trade return is better, and the odds of signing him to an extension got worse.
sadly, if he was sucking and had another nagging injury, it would greatly increase the chances of the Mets retaining him!
kistics
5/4/2011-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Well… they are still “playing meaningful games”.
I think Beltran will go ahead of Reyes.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Yeah MF4D, but think of the Giants’ point of view–even it is IS a 1-year rental, and it helps them win back-to-back titles?
Clearly worth it.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Right, teams do crazy trades even for rentals when the thought of a WS comes their way.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Even if that team gets no extension they still get 2 picks. I don’t see them changing that part this off-season. I think at best that starts after 2012.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Looking at Zach Wheeler, a guy mentioned in the Reyes to the Giants trade, he looks like the real deal. Another Harvey at worst.
kistics
5/4/2011-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
What makes you say that? He had 3.99 ERA and 1.449 WHIP in A-ball last season… I think it’s too early this season to determine who he is.. just like jury is still out on Harvey…
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
More to a minor league pitcher than just stats. Reading all the scouting reports that puts him as a top 50 guy and the Giants top prospect other than Belt.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Also even just looking at stats he has a very high K/9 rate and while walks were an issue last year this year moving up a level he is off to a great start.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
again, a rebuilding move. Just a prospect, and realistically years away from making an impact filling a spot in the Mets rotation.
at least agree that in supporting getting rid of Reyes, you are willing to punt 2012 too.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Actually from what I am reading he could be ready by mid2012.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
a real stretch though to think he is coming up mid year next season to anchor the rotation!
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Not anchor no obviously not. However, having Niese, Harvey, Wheeler is at least some young guys to build around.
kistics
5/4/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
agreed. Even if he comes aboard in 2012, I’m not sure if he’ll be able to contribute in a big way.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
so you are not caring about 2012, and looking at maybe 2013 being the start of the climb back?
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Might take that long, sure. I am not sure if there is a quick fix or not. Again it depends on how shrewd Sandy is and how desperate teams are.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
at best you get someone like that. not a guy that has proven he can pitch in the majors, and with top of the rotation potential.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
You just can’t tell how desperate a team will be at this point. Nor do you know if Reyes is the only player the Mets would throw into the trade.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
you trying to pawn beltran off on them too?
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Well yeah if they would take him… lol.
Nah I was thinking the Pelfrey idea again. Pelfrey slides in to replace a pitcher this year. Again that would depend on him getting his head out of his ass. If not the Giants you could look to be adding guys like Beltran, Krod, and even Young to the mix.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Honestly, the way MLBTR made it sound, he could see Wheeler + 2 others. Might be better going that route than just Bumgarner. Granted, I’d probably take him straight up as well.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
if they already made the decision that they won’t be trying to sign him, and the +2 are actaully viable talents, then this is a vastly better return than the potential 2 draft picks, and I would make the deal today.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Wheeler+ 2 others like Romo and a SS prospect would be nice but I too trust Madison a little more at this point obviously.
kistics
5/4/2011-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Does Intentional Walk count towards OBP?
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
yes
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
This is for real, since he likes to cite that the Giants are interested. Cribbed from the post on MMO.
%%%%%%
According to a report by Mychael Urban of CSN Bay Area, the Giants have discussed Jose Reyes as a possible trade target and more importantly it appears that the Mets have decided to field offers for Reyes and his $11MM salary this summer.
Mired in major financial trouble as the result of owner Fred Wilpon’s alleged ties to Bernie Madoff and the infamous “Ponzi Scheme,” the Mets, according to the New York-based source, have already decided to shop Reyes (and perhaps Carlos Beltran and David Wright) and will be looking to stockpile and rebuild with high-level prospects rather than established players anywhere near arbitration or free agency.
With no internal options available at shortstop, the Giants are looking to fill that void via trade and Jose Reyes has been widely discussed.
The source noted that a Giants-Mets swap could work in that New York isn’t likely to do what many teams have done to end conversations with Giants general manager Brian Sabean: demand a member of San Francisco’s vaunted starting rotation.
So for those of you who are thinking Sanchez or Cain may be in the offing in a Reyes swap, think again.
It appears this will be a pure salary dump with only prospects coming in exchange if it actually comes to fruition
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Now that certainly gives a different persepctive to the trade idea! and note, he mentioned trading wright also.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Obviously the Mets would not be interested in Cain or Sanchez. However, calling trading Reyes for top prospects or cheap talent like Bumgarner a salary dump is ridiculously one sided.
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
he specifically said “not a member of the rotation”. Why you keep bringing up Bumgarner in this discussion I don’t know.
change the parameters to maybe they can pry wheeler away, plus 1 more AA level prospect (not Belt of course). Still anxious to pull the trigger?
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Depends on who those other 2 are.
I keep bringing up Bumgarner because I am sure that’s where the asking price would start. Why wouldn’t it?
stickguy
5/4/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Man, and I know MF will agree with this, but Sandy really screwed the pooch not making job 1 back in November trying to sign reyes to a mutally friendly extension, when the possibility still existed.
of course, entirely possible the arrangement he came in under was that the high priced guys were going and he was to take the hit for being the guy that rebuilt.
kistics
5/4/2011-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Can’t imagine that Sandy was not aware of the financial situation before joining the team. Maybe that’s why Mets hired DePo and Ricciardi as well. To get as much talent as possible while reduce spending.
saltygary
5/4/2011-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
“Sandy really screwed the pooch not making job 1 back in November trying to sign Reyes to a mutually friendly extension, when the possibility still existed.”
OK this is probably the most ridiculous statement I have seen here in a while. The Mets were/are in financial distress, at the time Reyes could not prove that he can stay and productive on the field, and the team itself does not have the pieces to be highly competitive. It would of made no sense at all to sign him. Now Reyes is demonstrating that he can be his old self and is putting the team in a position of strength if they move him.
Resigning Reyes would not change the fact that the team is one of the worst teams in MLB and the financial issues will continue. It will not help attendance because it is not helping now.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
While I would not go as far as you do on some of your points, you do a great job of proving there are in deed two sides to every issue and nothing is clear cut.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Geez, do we agree.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
You could not even consider giving Reyes a big deal before seeing if he was going to be the 2006–2008 Jose again after two injury-filled so-so years.
After one month, it very much appears he has totally picked up where he left off.
saltygary
5/4/2011-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
He is and it sucks to watch. He was great last night but the rest of the team is not. Why waste the money and his services. Move him for pieces that will compliment what will be ready in the future.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Also, I think Sandy needed some time to see just how big of a mess the entire organization is in and if re-signing Reyes is a good use of limited resources.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
+1000
I think a handful of us, -me, you Ceet? – were clammoring for them to sign Reyes in the off season. The fact that they didn’t, coupled with the ‘I want to see him play a bit first’, can be translated as they had no intention of resigning him at all (like you mentioned) and that was just one way to stall the speculation. Maybe crossing his fingers Reyes got off to a slow start so the Mob would not go crazy when he eventually does pull that trigger.
I would say he can uncross his fingers now. Didn’t work.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
And if Sandy had given Jose a 7/120 deal last fall and Jose was either injured as during 2009 or nowhere near as productive as in 2010, how hard would we all be slamming Sandy?
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Probably the same as the majority will be slamming him when he’s traded.
There’s no guarantees. Sometimes you have to look at the facts and make your best educated guess and roll the dice.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
I just think he wanted more time not only to see Reyes but mostly to see how big of a mess the Mets were in to start with.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Even if he had taken the home town discount at 16/6 years if he had not recovered OR if the Mets financial situation did not improve (no investors) OR if the entire organization needed blowing up the Mets would have been even more handicapped than they are now.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
All valid points.
We’ll probably never know but you all know I’m now leaning towards it’s about the money and nothing but the money.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
TRS, I know we disagree on this, but why would Jose take 6/96 when Crawford got nearly 7/140??
This is incredibly unrealistic.
Jose, as I have said consistently, will get a minimum of 6/110 and probably more like what Crawford got.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
For one, players signing extensions usually get less and a 6 year extension would have been more like 7/107. Factor in the injury concerns for Reyes and I think that’s what you would get. This off-season? Even if he performs like he has this year I still think Crawford will earn more. Reyes is just not Crawford. I could see maybe the 6/110 with a signing bonus and option.
stickguy
5/4/2011-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
the point was back then there was a reasonable chance at making a deal that worked for both sides (maybe the 5/75 + options, 6/90, whatever). Something that would not kill the Mets, and would also give Reyes security + the shot at 1 more big deal to follow.
and it was before the Nats and especially the Red Sox F’d up the market.
Whatever reason Sandy waited, and pretty much has taken the keep Reyes and build around him option off the table.
saltygary
5/4/2011-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
If you were Reyes would you have done that? For him I am sure he knew he would be healthy enough to get back and if he believes that then there is no way he takes a low-ball contract.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
True, we don’t even know that the Mets did not bounce some numbers around with Reyes only; to be told HE wanted to see the direction of the Mets first.
kistics
5/4/2011-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
So the Mets will be looking to get couple pitching prospects back for Reyes.
And when Beltran is out of NY, where’s the offense coming from?
I truly don’t see Tejada to have any major impact offensively. I see Tejada as the MI bench guy at best. So who’s going to play SS next season or two? Also, who’s going to provide Beltran’s pop at RF? Sorry Stick, but I don’t see Duda getting any better.
It’s not like the Mets have any more depth in hitters than they have in pitching.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
It’s not coming. I think that’s the point some of us are making.
Trade Reyes for pitching or a couple of prospects and immediately open a hole on the offense front.
Doesn’t make much sense so it sure sounds like a ‘we really are broke so might as well rebuild’ mode to me.
Otherwise, they would be resigning Reyes AND looking for pitching.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
I keep going back to the same question that you asked but wanted Reyes left out of the equation. How do the Mets improve their pitching without trading Reyes, Wright, Ike or Niese? While you would love to say from within, the only one with a real shot there at this point is Harvey and even if Harvey develops that’s not enough. Signing older FA pitchers to big deals has not worked for 90% of the teams.
saltygary
5/4/2011-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
The problem with this question is that it cannot be answered by any of us. Answers will come from the teams long term direction and the trades that it makes and the FA’s that it signs. Not too many FA’s out there so most of it will come from trades and those you cannot predict.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Yup.
TRS86
5/4/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
The Mets have a chance offensively even missing Reyes and Beltran and finding production on the FA market for offense is much easier and cheaper than finding a top of the rotation pitcher.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
You might find offense to plug some holes but you’re talking about mediocre offense (IMO), especially since this seems to be about the money. Just pieces to fill in while rebuilding.
You’re never going to pick up an immediate Reyes replacement. One might argue that offense could be replaced somewhere else but it still leaves us w/o that young, leadoff hitter with above average defense and a great arm at SS.
Watching Tejada at the bottom of the order playing SS is not quite the same as watching Reyes at the top of the order play SS.
fongy2
5/4/2011-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Couldn’t agree more!…..And I like Tejada.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Obviously we would all love to see Reyes manning that lead off position for 6 more years. However, I just don’t see how we get better without bringing in more talent by trade. Getting league average production out of SS and RF from stop gaps while at least having a chance to develop a young pitching staff seems better to me than spending all of our money on Reyes and hoping our current farm comes through.
kistics
5/4/2011-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
This really goes to show that Omar missed big time with the prospects (whether his hands were tied or not). There are no real big prospect offensively AND pitching.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
He did hit on some. Ike, Niese, maybe Mejia, Harvey, Havens and Florez. However, what we seem to be missing is that organizational anchor that many teams see to have.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I still think he didn’t bring in enough prospects. That seems to be the #1 problem.
The more draft picks, international signings, etc., the more possibility of good talent and/or trade chips.
We have some nice talent down there. We just don’t have nearly enough right now.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Like I said, I think what we are missing is that true organizational anchor in the minors. A Brando Belt, Madison Bumgarner, Beechy, etc.
fongy2
5/4/2011-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Big deal!!!…..Niese is a back of the rotation guy, we won’t see Meijia now for a couple years, Havens hasn’t
been able to stay healthy and Harvey and Flores???…
A little early to be judging them a success…..No???
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
That’s why I said maybe.
As for Niese being a back of the rotation guy, I still expect mid-rotation. Not top of the rotation but could develop into a solid 3.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
I am sorry, but with very few exceptions it is pitching that is the foundation of winning.
This team’s rotation is so tattered right now, that if they can get a bushel of A- or B-level pitching prospects, consider trading anyone.
Again, from the 1960s Cards and 1969 and 1973 Mets to the more recent Giants, Cards, White Sox, DBacks, even the only Yankee team to win it all in the last decade–pitching gets it done, unless the offense is amazing. Even the champion Phils–yeah, their offense was really good, but Lidge was their clear MVP.
Plus, even WITH Reyes, our offense is middling at best–even with Jose, we will not see a great offense here anytime soon. Also, with Citi’s dimensions, it makes all the sense in the world to build around pitching and more pitching.
Bay is beyond done, Wright’s a shell of the old Wright, and sure Beltran is good, but nothing like the 2006–2008 Beltran, and he’s gone anyway. Pagan’s nothing, Thole is a big question mark, as is Murph, and Ike’s really the only sure thing.
And there is ZERO coming soon form the minors.
And the division is getting brutal.
Rebuilding around pitching is the only way.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
I agree with all except for the part about Wright. While this year he has struggled I will take the 131 OPS+ 30 HR 100 RBI and 20 steals from 3B any day.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I’m not wiling to right off Wright yet.
Besides…Kingman, my friend…..didn’t you use those exact words to describe Reyes coming into this year? ‘shell of his former self’?
(If that wasn’t you, I apologize.)
I’m still hoping Wright could turn it on from here.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
I might have—but in 2009 and 2010 Reyes WAS a shell of his former self; absolutely and positively.
However, he has shown that he is back.
And the difference is that Reyes’ issues were due to injuries.
Wright’s are due to maybe the Cain beaning, and maybe the suckitude around him compared to 2006–2008, but regardless, it is getting harder to see Wright ever returning to the pre-2009 Wright.
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Regardless of pre2009 or not 30 HR, 100 RBI and 20 steals from 3B while being an incredible asset off the field?
fongy2
5/4/2011-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
All true. We’re a long way away from contending again.
I could argue TRS’ latest posts on many levels BUT whats the point?
We’re not a good team, and even if Beltran found new knees AND
Johan returned today as the Johan of old, we’re still not a contender. This is a 90+loss team with financial problems, about to
lose our best everyday player, while our best Pitching prospect is
about to have Tommy John and not much else of impact is coming
from below any time soon. So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Which latest post? The one on Wright?
fongy2
5/4/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
No…The one at 11:06a…..
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
What did you disagree with there? That re-signing Reyes and hoping our farm comes through is a bad idea?
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
O.K., just a sampling of comments being made on other blogs concerning Reyes walking. This from MMO:
Met Maniac says:
May 4, 2011 at 10:13 am
The only winner in this mess will be Jose Reyes. He will get a well deserved contract that will make him rich and he will play for a team that will want him and appreciate him for his many. many talents.
As for the Mets they will get some schleps that probably wont ever make it to the majors while Reyes goes on to become one of the leagues best players and will probably get plenty of post season play unlike his compadre David Wright.
If any of you believe that horse manure coming out of Alderson’s mouth about how the $60 million coming off the books will get him more flexibility, you are as mad as a hatter.
This is the new Moneyball Mets, less money for payroll, less wins, less star players, more walks.
************************
It’s going to get very ugly, justified or not.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Why would we care about ignorant comments like his? We got those now and if we keep losing those are going to increase regardless of Reyes.
fongy2
5/4/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I told y’all in one of my rare recent posts, Reyes will be traded to
a contender (The Reds) in July for 3 whos and a what as we
sit 20+ out and The Wilpon’s look at an empty stadium.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Fongy, if the Mets are 20 games out in July (which may be the case) there won’t be anyone there even if Reyes stays.
fongy2
5/4/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
My friend, we’re 8 out as of 5/3/11 and no one in our Division
has played well yet.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Hard to say that the Marlins have not played well, infact well above their level IMO.
Ceetar
5/4/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
the Phillies have played well too.
Are you saying the other teams are going to play better but the Mets aren’t? what’s the logic for that?
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Well yeah, the Mets might play a little better but not every team is created equal. Some teams, believe it or not, are just better. The Phills, Braves and Marlins are just better than the Mets. Not really that difficult to see. Regardless of how they are performing now or how they are performing in 3 weeks, still does not change the fact that those 3 teams have more talent.
Prismo
5/4/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Actually what the commenter says is not totally unjustified.
1. Trading away a star player for prospects – the vast majority of the time, these trades favor the team acquiring the star player
2. Reyes WILL win and probably WILL get himself a huge contract
3. Alderson will probably NOT be given the whole $60MM to spend on the team
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
“This is the new Moneyball Mets, less money for payroll, less wins, less star players, more walks.”
Might as well have just said I am ignorant.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Trading away a star player for prospects DOES work some of the time, and I should probably find time to do a post about deals from Mark Langston for Randy Johnson to Colon for Lee/Philips/Sizemore and more.
And there’s the aspect of losing a highly paid player, and even if you don’t get great prospects, you have much more payroll flexibility to go in other directions, as in the current Rockies with Holliday.
This team has to be destroyed to save it.
It’s beyond obvious now.
fongy2
5/4/2011-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Problem is assuming the “savings” will be spent.
stickguy
5/4/2011-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
they won’t be most likely. just the minimal amount needed to field a team.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
With this FA market, who wants all of the money spent? That’s the old way and did not work. I am fine with not re-signing Reyes, getting good pitching prospects make shrewd trades and having money to spend later on a player that actually could make a difference.
Prismo
5/4/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Yes, it does work some of the time, but that doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t work most of the time.
How’d all those prospects the Mets traded for Santana pan out? Humber had one good game in his career so far?
But if the Mets decide to trade Reyes for prospects, they better go ALL OUT. Because trading Reyes = rebuilding. So if you trade Reyes, you better trade Beltran, Pagan, and KRod at the very least.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Beltran and Krod will obviously be shopped and Beltran will be traded regardless. Hell we could be 2 games back and they would still trade Beltran.
stickguy
5/4/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
and that is exactly the point I have been trying to make (and getting hammered out for) today. And frankly why I said trade Wright tooy.
oh, you left out Bay. When Reyes goes, they need to move him if they get any kind of offer at all.
Prismo
5/4/2011-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think Bay is tradeable really, at least for anything worthwhile considering the money attached.
Wright…ugh. I mean, if they’re rebuilding you have to figure at the very minimum 2-3 more years before they can compete. Wright would be in the his early 30s by then.
It’s a tough call, one a biased fan shouldn’t make.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Uh, how did the Mets end of the Santana deal work out?
One excellent year in 2008–but not enough to get us to the postseason. And two injury-shortened very good years, and $23 mil this year, and FIFTY MILLION committed the next two years.
And this case quite clearly points out my second point above—losing the insanely overpriced Johan helped the Twins regain payroll flexibility and sign Mauer and others. They made the playoffs in 2009 and 2010 while we finished 4th.
Think the Twins would refuse to make that same deal again?
I highly doubt it.
Smart kid, terrible example.
Prismo
5/4/2011-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
I’m not a kid, grandpa kingman.
And it’s an excellent example. Johan’s pitched 600 innings for the Mets so far with an ERA under 3.00. And the Twins got? NOTHING.
Don’t say payroll flexibility. Because they could’ve let him go, kept the money and gotten the draft picks. Mets didn’t help them in that regard at all.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
In retrospect, it worked out better for the Twins than the Mets.
Prismo
5/4/2011-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
I disagree. Disagree very much. Twins weren’t going to resign him anyway, so how did it work out better for them?
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Well they did get some return from trading Gomez I guess. Not sure how that A ball pitcher is doing, what was it Gurrera or something?
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Actually I don’t think they would do THAT deal again but obviously they would still trade Johan. LOL.
Prismo
5/4/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Yes, and of course they could’ve traded Johan to someone else.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Jim Fregosi for Nolan Ryan?
Lee Mazzilli for Ron Darling and Walt Terrell?
Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell?
Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz?
The list goes on and on….
Prismo
5/4/2011-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Selective memory syndrome. You have it.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Well no, and that’s really silly to say in this case.
Of course I know all of the trades where sending established players/stars away for kids turned out poorly for the team trading the established player, and when Grave did that series I hugely complimented him.
But my brother pointed out that many, many times the team receiving the youngsters does in fact do well.
This is–clearly and without debate–an issue where there is lots of evidence on both sides.
Sometimes trading a star for prospects nets you little in players, as in the Twins and Johan.
Sometimes trading a star for prospects yields you a wonderful return, as when the Indians traded Colon.
Sometimes it even nets a HOFer or near HOFer like Ryan, Bagwell, or Smoltz.
The idea that “Trading away a star player for prospects – the vast majority of the time, these trades favor the team acquiring the star player” just is not true.
Often it favors the team acquiring the star; maybe even a majority of the time.
But a “vast majority”?? No way.
Prismo
5/4/2011-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
That’s your whole beef? That I used the word “vast”?
*sigh*
kingman 26
5/4/2011-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
No, I think saying I have selective memory syndrome was really off the mark. There are two VERY strong sides to this issue, and both have pretty good arguments.
saltygary
5/4/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
The only difference in the Santana deal is no one thought those prospects would really pan out.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Has to be destroyed…
If that’s the case, then I’m with Stick on this one. Shop Wright, Pagan, Thole, Bay, KRod, Beltran, Reyes, Pelfrey.
If it’s a ‘blow it up’ mindset, the only ones I wouldn’t shop right now would be Ike, Niese, Beato and possibly Young (gotta have some pitching left and he’s not likely to yield anything anyway.)
If we’re going to clean house and rebuild, don’t go halfway.
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
You don’t have to trade everyone when you start over. This about the Sox and Nomar. The Phillies and Abreu, Thome, Burrell and Rowand.
saltygary
5/4/2011-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
See I think it’s too extreme to send off Wright. He’s young great 3rd baseman that is still in control during the transition period. He also has those face of the franchise intangible’s with all the community outreach that he does.
TRS started this thought a couple weeks ago and I feel it’s still valid. You bring Wright in on the plan and get him bought in. Even have him extend his contract. If he has no desire to do this then you can move on. My gut feeling is he will stay. It doesn’t have to be either or with rebuilding, there are a lot of different options.
And Bay is pennies on the dollar right now, why not give him more time to see if he can get his stroke back, won;t make a difference at this point.
Prismo
5/4/2011-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t call Wright young for long!
Guess who turns 30 December of next year?
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Guess who turns 29 in June of next year?
Regardless, Wright’s intangibles are much more valuable to the Mets than Reyes. Sorry that I feel that way but not changing my mind on that one. Go back and look at Reyes’ production in September every time it mattered. Then look at Wright’s. Then see who is there to stand up for himself AND the team when they lose.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
Ummmm, 30 is young.
You’ll understand some day.
Prismo
5/4/2011-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
30 is young in human terms, but it’s slightly past the peak of most ballplayers. Most players peak at 28-29.
30 is of course still in the “prime” of a career (barring injury), but it’s definitely on the back-end and not the front-end of that prime.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
Fair enough, and I agree.
Sad to say, but for Wright it may indeed be past his prime.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
MF4D, you know how much I like and respect and value your presence here, and I truly hope you and your hubby make it up to Saratoga so after buying you two a couple of drinks I can ask you in person why someone of your obvious intelligence and life experience READS THIS CRAP?!?!
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Well, thank you my friend. I hope to make it up to Saratoga too.
and LOL….I read, a lot. My favorite past time next to baseball.
mets.com, metsblog and to a large degree, MMO have your lunatic fringe posters. But MMO has some good articles from time to time. I don’t always read all comments over there but wanted to see what they were saying on the Reyes post.
I stop by at AA too but many of their sabermetric posts are just a tad over my head. Must be me showing my age….
I like Faith and Fear in Flushing as well as Toby Hyde, Patrick Flood and Ted Berg as well. At least those last 3 on SNY’s blog roll seem to have some writing skills to go along with their well thought out posts.
However, this blog is my first stop, all day stop, last stop of the day.
It’s refreshing to be able to debate a topic that even if all don’t agree, no one’s calling me a ‘moron’ or attacking my mother….
kingman 26
5/4/2011-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
I hear you. I do read voraciously about all kinds of things, and full disclosure—I do know who Sylow and Bayonne are!
TRS86
5/4/2011-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
The Red Sox when they traded Nomar he was hitting .321 .367 .500 .867 and coming off .301 .345 .524 .870 the season before.
Red Sox just decided they had to go in a different direction if they were going to compete. They had to build around pitching and defense.
stickguy
5/4/2011-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
they also knew he was not going to last much longer, and were shrewd enough to follow the old concept of “better to get rid of a player a year early than a year late”
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Well not really, I think he was a FA at the end of the year right?
Also he was 30 and hitting very well, of course there were injury concerns.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
which is the opposite of what Omar often did….ala Uncle Cliff and Alou and counting on El Duque and to a smaller extent Pedro to anchor the rotation.
Giving out several million dollars to BP arms (like Schoenwiss), signing not one but two closers when one clearly had a damaged arm (Putz), trading away young arms like Bell and Lindstrom….and the list goes on.
Omar had a vision when he came here and it wasn’t a bad one. Somewhere along the way though he strayed from that. Or maybe he just wasn’t all that smart a GM to begin with.
Prismo
5/4/2011-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Yep, they traded him he was 30/31ish years old. Right on the back-end of his peak.
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Right and Jose will be 29 next year and relies much more on speed than Nomar did.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
Well, Boston sold Babe Ruth…
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Apples and oranges. The Red Sox were a very serious contender, who Won it all THAT year. Their relationship with
Garciaparra wasn’t fixable and they were able to get back
guys who were perfect fits for them in their attempts to get over
the hump. None of these things have ANYTHING to do with way
were gonna lose Reyes. It’s simply about money….Or The Wilpons lack of it.
kistics
5/4/2011-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
From what I remember, Nomar was more of a outcast in the clubhouse. I remember one shot where they were showing him sitting in the dugout when everyone in the team were standing up to watch the game. Plus BoSox had Manny, Papi and Damon all in their prime. So Nomar or no Nomar, they were offensively very good.
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
True indeed. Again, apples and oranges.
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Very true. How about the Phillies choosing to move away from the old guard?
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Of course how about this one?
With or without Reyes the Mets are very bad.
kistics
5/4/2011-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
I’m saying the situation was different when Nomar was traded. It wasn’t just to get some prospects back. It was more of team chemistry and Nomar’s unhappiness with the BoSox.
I’m not quite sure why we’re comparing Nomar and Jose though…
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Both FA at the end of the year, both had injury issues, both playing well at the time of the trade, both SS, both considered a huge part of the team.
Also much of the reason he was traded was because they were sure they were losing him to FA.
kistics
5/4/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
Are you trying to say that it’s a good idea to trade Reyes rather than lose him to the FA?
stickguy
5/4/2011-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
I think the correlation is that both guys were team stars/favorites, and both were at the end ot their contracts, and both cases the team is choosing not to resign them, so have to make a call about trading them.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, someone get me the address to the Bridge. i want to make sure that we’re all jumping off the same one. I may be a little late getting there, being 1600 miles away and all.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
That bridge is getting awfully crowded. I predict it collapse due to the weight before anyone has a chance to jump.
I’ve followed some pretty awful Met teams in my time. I’ll be sticking around for this current phase as well. Sigh….
kistics
5/4/2011-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
So it’s either jumping off the bridge or wait for the bridge to collapse…. so fitting for us Mets fans…
stickguy
5/4/2011-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
no, I think typical would be we were under the bridge, thinking things are going well, when the bridge collapses on us.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s Howard Megdal telling us we shouldn’t have to worry about Dickey:
http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2011/05/04/how-worried-should-you-be-about-dickey-not-very/
Sure hope he’s right. I was counting on Dickey being solid this year. Had much more faith in him than Pelfrey going in.
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
You really are an optimistic one, aren’t you…..
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
LOL..not overly. I would be surprised if Dickey repeated his outstanding ’10 season but I didn’t think he’d regress that much. Like I said ‘solid’.
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Coming into last night his ERA was still in the 3′s. About what I expected.
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Niekro) can only be counted on as inning eating, back of rotation type guys, OR anything you get over .500, a sub 4 era
and more than 200 innings is ALWAYS gravy.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Well, all I can say is this is a classic example where the right response IS to question whether the guy watches the games.
I do, and anyone who thinks that Dickey has had even close to the command and control of his pitches in 2011 as he had in 2010 is a very impressive denier of reality.
It was unreasonable to expect Dickey to repeat 2010, and while he may be a bit better than his record shows, he’s not the same as he was last year.
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
Knuckle ballers……….
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Also, 1 last thing. I didn’t realize Chewbaca was a lefty.
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Hey Tex, Love The Steelers draft. How ’bout you?
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
They covered all their needs, for sure. That first rounder looks to slide right in perfectly! I hope they can sign at least one solid corner come FA (whenever that happens).
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Don’t know how likely, it’s not really in Steeler DNA to
sign big FAs BUT there are exceptions….See james Farrior.
I love the 1st pick, I suspect the 2nd pick is gonna work out
AND I really love the Carter pick. I saw quite a bit of Frenso
football the past 2 seasons AND this guy is our next Lloyd/Porter/Harrison.
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
I read where everyone was saying they should have taken a Corner with their first pick, and graded them badly because they didn’t. Other than Polamalu, they’ve never taken a corner high that i can remember. It was always DLine/Linebacker. How can you argue with their results?!?!
kistics
5/4/2011-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Are you making fun of me?
Are you making fun of me?
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
I wasn’t, but I can start!
kistics
5/4/2011-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Just saw Polamalu’s name and had to do it…
I must say that Mauer is a very good actor.
fongy2
5/4/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Chad Scott……..Bust. Ricardo Colclough……Bust.
No matter how scientific the NFL draft becomes, we’re
just as likely to “find” an undrafted guy like Ike Taylor
who becomes a solid #1 CB as we are “reaching” for a question mark at the end of round one or two.
kistics
5/4/2011-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
You think it’s time to dump Harris and keep Pridie on the bench? Harris hasn’t done anything outside of the first week. Since the Mets home opener, Harris has hit .174/.269/.239 with 0 HR and 3 doubles.
TRS86
5/4/2011-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Actually they should dump Hu and keep Harris as the late inning OMG guy. Hu is actually very repetitive now.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
For sure Hu can go.
I’d dump Harris as well, keep Pridie and bring up another bench player.
Has anyone watched Harris’ play closely? If ever there was a player that strikes me as someone who is going through the motions, or who would like off the team, it’s him.
I’ve seen him dogging it up to first on a few plays and his body language is awful.
Besides that, he’s not done anything in the field or at the plate that’s remotely helping this team.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on Harris, but this points out very vividly and sadly our horrendous lack of depth or minor league help.
Hu, Turner, Pridie, Nickeas—these are not MLB players.
They’re not typical bad bench guys; they are not MLB bench guys.
This is yet another issue that points out the terrible shape this team is in and the need for a complete overhaul and massive influx of new young talent.
Yeah, we are within striking range of .500–maybe–due to having Ike, Reyes, Beltran, KRod, etc, but our depth is minor leaguers, and our minor leaguers are just not good.
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, but I’ll take Pridie’s effort and enthusiasm over Harris anyday.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
Well, he does belong in the Chris Carter school of enthusiasm trumping talent!
fongy2
5/4/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed!…..And isn’t it so typical that we get a player who
used to just kill us AND THEN in a Met uni he kills us some more?
kingman 26
5/4/2011-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
Sad, but SO true!
kistics
5/4/2011-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
OMG guy?
Agreed on Hu. His bat is not much better than Capuano’s bat. I think Turner can back him up in an emergency situation and if Reyes is out for longer than 2 games, you call up someone from AAA and send Turner down.
But Harris hasn’t been much better either.
fongy2
5/4/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Brock is right though, these are not MLB players.
TRS86
5/4/2011-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Oh My God look what happen to that guy, gonna have to use Harris now.
saltygary
5/4/2011-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
But Hu will play SS when Reyes is traded?
njstuckintx
5/4/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
bass drum, snare, snare…. cymbal.
fongy2
5/4/2011-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
Actually, I think the Paul Janish era begins the last weekend of July………………..
metsfan4decades
5/4/2011-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
The only one who would be happy about that would be that female reporter from his country who asks the most long winded questions on the post game I’ve ever heard. Some I can’t even figure out what point she’s trying to make. A couple, Terry takes several seconds to answer and you can almost see he wanted to say: ‘WHAT?’
kistics
5/4/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
LOL.. I never watch the post game stuff, but next time I’ll keep it on to watch that.
kistics
5/4/2011-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Turner has played SS in the minor leagues. So, he would be the emergency SS if Reyes gets injured. If Reyes is out more than couple games, Hu or no Hu, you’d have to promote someone from the minors.
fongy2
5/4/2011-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
Worry not!……..I told ya, we’ll have a Paul Janish or a
Mike Fontenot coming back to man the position on our
way to a last place finish!……………..It’s all good!
saltygary
5/4/2011-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Cool WSJ article about Joe Petruccio
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834804576301213895341554.html?mod=wsj_share_twitter
kingman 26
5/4/2011-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
Very interesting!
But he really needs to either button up his shirt or take off some of those silly bracelets he bought in the parking lot at a Dead show.
He kind of looks like the gay hippie member of Tony Soprano’s crew. Not that there’s anything wrong with that….
fongy2
5/4/2011-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
Tell THAT to Vito Spadafore!
kingman 26
5/4/2011-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
OMG I FORGOT!!
That’s too funny!
Wow, Vito kind of did fit that description. Oh man, that’s too much.
And the actor who played him I think is a major Met fan.
Loved the Sopranos. And as I grew up in the precise area of NJ they filmed much of it in, trust me, they got just about everything right!
fongy2
5/4/2011-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
I know, and I do. My dad is a Teamster and his Godfather
was VP of the ILA back in the 70s and 80s…….
Besides, I grew up in Hells Kitchen in the 70s and 80s…….
So, no doubt most all the writing was spot on………..
b/t/w the actor is Bayridge’s own Joe Gannascoli who is a
legit big time Met fan.
kingman 26
5/4/2011-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, Joe Ganascoli!
My grandfather owned lots of supermarkets in NJ from the 1950s–1980s, and knew some real characters, but VP of the ILA in the 1970s—wow, he must have known some VERY interesting characters!