" This is your brain on the Mets !!"
Madness : the quality or state of being mad: as a : rage b : insanity c : extreme folly
- Websters online dictionary
If this doesn’t describe the current decent of this Mets team, well I sure don’t know what does. All I know is that this team can’t win for losing ! They score six runs on Tuesday night – BOOM- they lose by the score of 7-6 ! Chris Capuano has one of his finest outings so far, letting up two runs on eight hits while walking thee – POW- they lose by the score of 2-0 !
Look I am not taking anything away from this Giants team, they are the real deal. And unlike the Mets right now they have a couple of starting pitchers who would be considered aces or at the very least number two starters on many of the other teams in the league. Lincecum was phenomenal last night, limiting the Mets to one run. Yes it seemed like the Mets had him on the ropes a couple of times, but he managed to come out of it unscathed! Thats what aces are supposed to do – not MELTDOWN ( are you reading this Big Pelf ?!?)
All I know is is this team is not playing up to their potential. They look tight at the plate as well as on the field. They are looking like the classic example of a mediocre team – when they hit they can’t pitch, when they pitch they can’t hit ! This is truly maddening because we have talented hitters such as Wright, Reyes, Beltran and Davis, along with good pitchers like Niese, Pelfrey and Dickey ( although I am starting to think that last year was a aberration).
It is getting to late to say that it is to early in the season to bury this team. This team needs to get angry- get hungry – and stay hungry !! When the Washington Nationals are playing better than you it’s a disgrace !! If this team finishes in the basement it’s a disgrace ! If the Mets don’t pay over slot in the amateur draft it would be a disgrace !!! We all know this team is better than what we are seeing right now. Maybe I am just to optimistic, maybe I am blinded by my loyalty- or maybe I am just loco in the cabeza , but I still think this team is a .500 team or better – they just have to start playing that way !
Oh ! And If the Mets trade Jose Reyes mid season it would be …… just MADNESS !!!!
All I know is tonight I am so tempted to celebrate Cinco De Mayo by drowning my sorrows in Corona !!!
And with that said… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today include:
Middle reliever from the ’97 season, Juan Acevedo is 41 (1970) .
The New York Mets signed free agent middle reliever, Eric Gunderson on May 5, 1994.
The New York Mets reserve outfielder, released Ben Johnson on May 5, 2008. Yes folks he was the main player that we received from the Padres in return for Heath Bell and Royce Ring.
Mo Vaughn will be spending Cinco De Mayo at his local Chevy’s drinking mass quantities of Corona and Dos Equis while eating his weight in pork enchiladas, nachos and cheese, and coconut cajetas. Needless to say I wouldn’t want to stand down wind from him after that feast !!!!
137 comments
gategem
5/5/2011-7:01am at 7:01 am (UTC -4)
Rusty I haven’t heard “Loco en la Cabeza” perform. What do you know about them? LOL
Rusty you and Ceeter are the anti-Kingman. Doesn’t the bible say something about the emergence of the anti-Kingman at the end of times? LOL
rustyjr
5/5/2011-7:49am at 7:49 am (UTC -4)
Trust me I can be negative – that side of me might rear it’s head soon
kingman 26
5/5/2011-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
I was among the rosiest of optimists through 2007, 2008, 2009, and half of last year.
But August last year it became apparent to me that I was deluding myself by expecting anything other than mediocrity from this group.
And sadly, I was right.
gategem
5/5/2011-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Yes I recall your optimism and at times when one’s dearly held beliefs are shattered his or hers internal pendulum responds by swinging to the polar opposite and then slowly stabilizes somewhere in-between.
One of the side benefits of a math, science and engineering education is it trains you to make objective and dispassionate judgments regardless of your mental state. But that’s not to say that in spite of that mind set we at times still jump off the deep end.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
I was jumping off the deep end in 2009 when I thought we were “a player away.”
Thinking that the 2010 team was an overrated bunch of slacker check-cashing lazy apathetic players was in no way overreacting at all.
That was reality.
Thinking that the 2011 team simply is not talented enough is also simply reacting to reality.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Not talented enough to compete? Very, very possible.
So devoid of talent we’ll be in last place all year? That’s what’s debatable to me.
Pitching gets it done, something we don’t currently have, especially compared to some of the teams in the NL east.
But the Nats? Dang, their ‘ace’ is currently Livan. I believe they’ve got more injuries to key players than we do right now.
I’m just saying it’s more than a lack of SP and/or overall talent.
gategem
5/5/2011-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
I’ve watched a few Nats games and it seems they play a smarter brand of baseball than the Mets do.
gategem
5/5/2011-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
I totally agree with your assessment of the current state of affairs.
ajgmets
5/5/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
In order for something to have a “decent Descent” it must gave “Ascended” to a higher point. Maybe I missed it but if a 6 game winning streak is the high point of a season…well, frankly we’re in deep sheeeeeet.
This team as it continues to employ marginal (I use the term generously) MLB players like Willie Harris and Scott Hairston is quite simply outclassed every time it takes the field. This is not a direct reflection of the players so much as my continued distrust in the clubs new hierarchy.
I’d much rather see system minor league kids play everyday rather than the continued deployment of ineffective and often destructive
“veteran journeymen”.
The lack of competitive fire in these “players” is abundantly obvious when a team like the Giants, with a lineup including the likes of Emmanuel Burriss and Mike Fontenot can come in and beat the Mets in their own backyard.. The Giants have an aura of winning and the Mets DO NOT.
As I write this, I hear that the “Manager” has inserted Chin Lung Hu as the starting 2nd baseman batting 2nd (Yes the old Jerry Manuel formula of the 2nd baseman batting 2nd) for today’s matinee….Really??? Chin Lung Hu ???..So as far as my criticism of the Mets management…CASE CLOSED..
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-7:43am at 7:43 am (UTC -4)
Wish I could put my finger on what’s wrong with this team but it completely alludes me.
They have more talent than this record indicates. I’m no longer convinced that’s quite enough though. Is it ‘no identity’? Defeatist attitude? Culture of this team?
Prior to this year, I would have said to a large degree those things don’t really matter, that ’86 team aside. It was a different time and era in the 80s.
But maybe I’m off on that. Maybe the real problem here is a collection of 25 guys that largely have no connection to each other, this team, or the fans.
Think about this:
- Beltran knows he’s gone, probably mid season
- Reyes is probably wondering what FA will be like, for the first time realizing he probably won’t remain a NY Met for the rest of his career.
- Capuano and Young are pitching for their comeback, both of which probably figure they’re not here next year either.
- Bay looks and ‘feel’s like he never made a connection, probably b/c he’s yet to produce.
- Frankie’s probably got 55 completed games in the back of his mind, and trying to distance himself from that hot headed kid of recent years in the front of his mind.
- The rest of the BP – Parnell aside who is on the DL and still trying to establish he belongs in the ML, don’t really know each other.
- Both Pelf and Niese are still struggling to show they belong at the top end of a quality rotation – for different reasons. Niese is on his way up, Pelf might be on his way down. Ditto for Thole.
- Pagan is probably concentrating on proving he’s not a one year wonder.
- Wright and Davis, 2 guys who probably figured to be here a while, can’t carry the team right now.
- The rest of them to a large degree appear to be a rag tag group of misfits that don’t appear to fit in anywhere.
I’ve got nothing. Or maybe, I’m onto something. For anyone else that’s watched all games since the season started, do you agree with me that they just don’t appear to be a team of 25 that’s banded together collectively thinking ‘we’re gonna prove them and their last place predictions’ wrong this year?
TRS86
5/5/2011-7:48am at 7:48 am (UTC -4)
Honestly no 4D. What I see is a team that’s just not talented enough to compete day in and day out. Like a mediocre team with a few high priced vets at times they are going to look great more so than not they will look bad. The only thing I am changing opinion wise at this point is maybe top end. I said 75-85 wins now I am thinking 70-80.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-8:20am at 8:20 am (UTC -4)
“I said 75-85 wins”
LOL!
Love the newfound dedication to reality, but you sure weren’t saying 75 wins.
But it is to your eternal credit that you accept and acknowledge the reality on the field of shame called anyplace the Mets play.
TRS86
5/5/2011-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
I believe that was the range I said Kingman. I could go back and look but I think I provided a large range because I had no idea how this year would play out. I could have sworn my range was 75-85.
rustyjr
5/5/2011-7:51am at 7:51 am (UTC -4)
Excellent points 4d
kingman 26
5/5/2011-8:18am at 8:18 am (UTC -4)
“They have more talent than this record indicates.”
No, they don’t. They definitely don’t.
But this is VERY on the money:
“Maybe the real problem here is a collection of 25 guys that largely have no connection to each other, this team, or the fans.”
This has been the case since early 2007.
What did Willie Harris say to the Nats’ broadcasters? What did David Wright say to Larry Bowa?
It’s a team of clock punchers and check cashers largely.
Was Jason Bay counting the seconds until he could get away?
Utley’s out forever, and in the dugout with the team.
Has any injured Met in recent years showed their face at the stadium?
Reality bites sometimes, but this team needs a complete, total overhaul of just about everyone, from top to bottom, including Warthen and Hale.
Everything must go.
Destroy the village to save it.
stickguy
5/5/2011-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
Warthen needed to go in the off season with the rest of them. That I was on record stating. Repeatedly. I know TRS was on the other side of that arguement though!
Hale? no biggie to me. stay or go.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
Hale was the lead valet of the Manuel Country Club.
He should never have been retained.
njstuckintx
5/5/2011-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
King, based on what? he’s been the most competitent 3rd base coach this team has had in a long while. Been way to many windmills parked by 3b just sending every running. i’ve got no issues with hale.
Warthen should have gone though. I’ve not seen pitchers get better with him. He’s thrown pitchers under the bus (AKA Maine and other) right to the media. Not saying Warthen is the source of the Met probelms, but he isn’t part of the solution, that’s for sure.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Well, this is far from scientific, but as you cannot–especially with current Met financial constraints–change the entire roster, the best you can do is change on-field management.
The players clearly did not respect Jerry, and my guess is they didn’t respect the coaches.
They may LIKE Hale, but do they respect him?
The facts seem to show that last year’s team was playing cards through BP and infield pregame, despite being awful. The facts also show without debate that with Hale as infield coach, the team’s infield play was not that great. It most certainly did not improve.
So yeah, he might be a decent 3rd base coach, but I honestly feel that a whole new regime should have come in.
And Collins’ replacement needs to be a younger guy who brings in his own young, new crew.
njstuckintx
5/5/2011-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
And I can stand behind that. I thought it weird they didn’t start from scratch with management, but was glad Hale stayed. Anyway, at this point, we have to hang our hats on the coat rack of Sandy and hope he actually has a plan that is not completely castrated by Madoff issues. Per the movie Outlaw Josie Wales, “don’t piss down my neck and tell me it’s raining.”
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Nice Clint reference.
Love Clint.
TRS86
5/5/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Actually I am not sure Warthen “brought” anything. I just said that it was hard to argue with his results considering the scrubs we had pitching last year and the results he produced. Would have been hard to fire him after that.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
Sorry my friend, the team is most definitely playing right to its potential.
We have hugely overrated many of our players for years, and now that Wright and Beltran (and Pelf and Dickey and Pagan and Bay and others) are nothing close to what they have been, and combined with the overall roster, they are–as Bill Parcells would say–exactly what their record says they are.
I harp on it, but we have played this year with 4-5 non-major leaguers.
There was ZERO chance Pridie would get a hit off of Lincecum in the big spot the 6th. Pridie is a poor man’s Chris Carter. Pridie, Hu, and Turner are not MLB players. Nor were Emaus or Nickeas.
Willie Harris should never start.
It’s no one’s fault. The system has nothing to offer from below, and the team cannot spend more to improve.
It sucks, and it sucks royally, and it is going to suck for a while.
The Phils and Marlins are good, and the Braves pitchers are really getting it together.
Just trying to be realistic. I still watch, and they DO seem to play harder under Collins, but they don’t have anywhere near the talent they need to compete in this very difficult division.
All we can hope is that Alderson really has the ability to obtain a lot in trades and wisely use as much of the money coming off the books as possible to improve the team in 2012.
rustyjr
5/5/2011-8:39am at 8:39 am (UTC -4)
I love You man and I respect your views but I disagree with you sir
kingman 26
5/5/2011-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
I love you man and respect your views HUGELY.
But my friend, we finished 1st in 2006, 2nd in 2007 and 2008, 4th in 2009 and 2010, and we’ve been in last most of this year.
We’ve been a 4th place team for over two years, and maybe now a last place one.
They are just not good, not in proper shape, and just not what they need to be.
In my humble opinion.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
The only thing I don’t agree with from most of the comments above is the talent level on this team. I still believe it’s better than what this current record indicates. How much better is a matter of perception, I guess. But still, IMO, I still don’t believe it’s this god-awful.
Take Philly, for example. Wilson Valdez has been their MI for the better part of a year now with injuries to Utley and Rollins. He didn’t make one single contribution when he played here. Go over to the Phils? All of a sudden he’s right in the mix of win after win.
The other night, they played against us with a 22 or 23 man roster. Didn’t matter at all, they still beat us.
Polanco? Anyone think he’s more talented that Wright? I don’t but he certainly seems to come up big when they need it?
They’ve lost 3 of their key guys in the BP, including 2 closers and they’re still rolling along.
Mayberry, Ben Fran….better than Pagan and Bay? In my opinion, equal at best but again, they come up big when you need them to.
I could go on but you probably get the point.
I still think it’s got some to do with the team as a whole.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
“I still think it’s got some to do with the team as a whole.”
It does, and hugely.
That’s why the team has been in decline since the 2006 roster was slowly changed.
The “gamers” were Delgado, LoDuca, Valentin, Chavez, Bradford, and Oliver.
They were never replaced.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
Exactly. Outside of Delgado (who some accuse of being a clubhouse cancer), the rest were certainly no ‘stars’ by any means. But collectively, they complimented each other. For example, LoDuca wasn’t all that talented but many believe he was a huge part of the spark on that club.
So maybe we all are saying the same thing.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Some dispute this, but seriously—does anyone doubt that Keith Hernandez helped raise his teammates’ quality of play?
Baseball is a LONG marathon, and attitude/chemistry/etc definitely has to have some effect over the course of the season.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
It’s hard to doubt the ‘intangibles’ Keith brought along with his talents as I’ve heard many a teammate from that team credit him with just that over and over again, over the years.
gategem
5/5/2011-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
I never believed and still do not believe that Willie Randolph was a quality manager from either a on the field or off the field point of view. But one thing Willie was aware of and tried to do was install a winning mentality into this franchise. That mentality and the front office and players adherence to it allow teams like the Phillies to persevere in spite of injuries. It will take Sandy and company time to change this team into a professional organization but they will be handicapped by the circus atmosphere that has encompassed ownership until ownership becomes stable, financially secure and intelligent in the techniques needed to run a sporting entertainment franchise. This may require a change of ownership.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
Good point. I don’t think we fans have any idea if the unstable atmosphere and uncertainty of the franchise as a whole is affecting them on the field.
The Dodgers, who apparently are in danger of not having money enough to meet June payroll, have even won more games than the Mets. Talent level better? Eh….
stickguy
5/5/2011-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
I don’t beleive they are paying any attention to that stuff. At the most, it is a peripheral thing when they aren’t playing, but it has no relation to what is going on on the field.
I can see guys that are distracted by pending FA/trades being an issue at times, but right now, the only guys on the Mets in that situation (beltran and Reyes) are on fire and having big years! So maybe the rest of the team needs to get nervous about their future?
bottom line, they all know their checks are going to clear, and beyond that don’t give a crap about the owners.
gategem
5/5/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I’ve worked for companies that had ownership issues with uncertainty swirling about. And I can tell you it definitely impacts the employees, even those that had no worries about losing their job or obtaining another one. Sometimes we tend to think the players perform in a vacuum, one great fantasy league if I may make an analogy, but they are effected to varying degrees, based upon their personalities and emotional state, by the ownership problems. This problem becomes much more critical when your talent level is marginal. The Mets do fall into the marginal talent level group.
stickguy
5/5/2011-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
Bury them. They are dead. Hard to play with a giant fork sticking out of your back.
Start making the moves for next year, though it will be hard to trade some guys this early, you can still try. Beltran has looked fine so far, maybe they can get an early suitor for him?
at least make an attempt to improve the bench. Do something.
njstuckintx
5/5/2011-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
The benefit of the doubt I’ll give them on last night is that they were going against Lincy. And Cap pitched well.
I guess I’ll be reading more and more of Mack Ade this next year plus, see what potential top pick these Mets are going to get…
saltygary
5/5/2011-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
“All I know is is this team is not playing up to their potential”
At some point the delusion needs to end. There is a simple reason why they lost last night. It was Jason Pridie’s responsibility to get the runs home last night. If that’s the lineup then most nights the team is going to lose. When a team is playing against a pitcher like Lincecum, they probably have one chance to score and Jason Pridie is not going to get the job done.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
Jason Pridie is not an MLB player any more then Chris Carter was.
TRS86
5/5/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, that lineup last night performed exactly up to it’s potential. If you include Cap’s results they may have exceeded their potential. That was the defending WS champions with Lincey on the mound. With that lineup and Cap starting what did people expect?
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Here’s you go. As defined by Mookie:
http://mookiesview.blogspot.com/2011/04/baseballs-great-debates.html
‘The best team is not always determined by the more gifted athletes on the field. The ability to make quick decisions, adjustments and execute a desired task with consistency usually reveals the best team. The best team is established on day to day bases. The best team always wins.’
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
And further from Mookie:
http://mookiesview.blogspot.com/2011/05/best-team-always-win.html
‘It is the hope of every organization to choose the players that will produce a winning team. In accomplishing this task, we must understand that a winning team is more than a collection of talented athletes motivated by selfish agendas and accomplishments. It has been proven over the course of time that having good athletes alone does not guarantee having a winning team. If nothing else, the game of baseball, in spite of the results, can teach us valuable lessons when observed objectively.’
*********************
Ironic that I came across these 2 articles this morning. Mookie is explaining it so much better than I am, but I believe we’re saying the same thing.
He goes on to explain in this article that it’s not always the best pitching that determines the better team either.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
“we must understand that a winning team is more than a collection of talented athletes motivated by selfish agendas and accomplishments.”
This is the true description of the 2010 Mets.
Why does Wilson Valdez look so good? Why is Chase Utley in the dugout while hurt when Jason Bay was 3000 miles away last year?
Same answers. The Mets are a hollowed-out shell of a team right now. The Phils are perfectly run.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
http://mookiesview.blogspot.com/2011/03/winning-team.html
This maybe?
If putting a championship team together was as simple as picking the best talent, general managers and managers’ jobs would be easy. As there are many components that influences the choice in players, here are a few that are worthy of discussion. In addition to talent, a championship team must have:
25 role players, every player must know, understand and accept his role.
Trust, believe in the system that is in place and teammates. Believe in the process regardless of the immediate results.
Respect, champions have respect for its opponents as well as a mutual respect for each other.
Humility, willing to do whatever it takes to win. The team comes first.
Mental toughness, the ability to overcome adversity, fatigue and bruised egos.
Understanding and acceptance, player must understand that there are 25 different personalities on the team and accepting those differences makes for a harmonious clubhouse.
Acknowledge its strengths and weaknesses, acknowledging these will help you plan and prepare. Most teams plan from their strength and prepare for their weaknesses.
Controlled arrogance, championship teams have confidence in their abilities but awareness of situation that may force them to change their approach or strategy.
A championship team wins in spite of flawed coaching not because of good coaching.
***************************
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
bottom line is still talent.
all fine and dandy to have guys love each other, know their role, embrace it, etc. But if they still aren’t good enough to get the bat on the ball vs. Tim L. in a big spot, it does not matter.
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
bay and utley are not at all a fair comparision.
Utley has a knee issue, and was shut down (other than minor rehab type exercises) for a long time. He literally had nothing else to do, and was best served being with the team and trainers.
Recently, he has been in Fla working out, not near the Phils.
Bay had a concussion. he could not travel, and was having to do the “sit in a dark room and try not to move” recovery for most if not all of last year.
so no, you can’t fairly compare them.
How about Reyes? Not only was he with the team while hurt last year, he was playing!
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Very true and Johan spent much of his time with the team as well and I think really wants to be here. For many players the ability to rehab while traveling with the team is not only not practical but impossible.
TRS86
5/5/2011-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Easy to say when you were part of the 86 Mets which easily had the most talent of any Met team in history.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
He was also part of the 1984 Mets which did not have the most talent (Mike Fitzgerald at C, Jose Oquendo at SS, George Foster in LF and Walt Terrell, Ed Lynch, and Bruce Berenyi in the rotation), and won 90 games coming out of absolutely nowhere to set the stage for the next few years.
TRS—Do you think ANY players in MLB are lazier than others? Work less hard than others? Try less than others?
Seriously.
Ever hear the quote “25 players 25 cabs?”
Some teams like each other, hang together, get to the park early, and really want to win.
Some teams don’t.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
You had me until:
“Some teams like each other, hang together, get to the park early, and really want to win. Some teams don’t.”
While it is true that some teams don’t get along and chemistry can be important I have had teams have incredible chemistry on the court that hated each other off the court. Much like many of the 86 Mets.
On to the 2nd part of that, there is not a team alive that does not want to win. Do some teams do more to achieve that goal? Sure. Even then, it’s about talent 99% of the time. That being said when less is expected of you, human nature is you produce less.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
You always have me until you compare coaching amateur kids to coaching millionaire athletes. It’s ridiculous.
Kids are there–in almost EVERY case–because they want to be.
For many mid-career athletes, it is a job. Especially for some guys who have come here for their last big payday. Anyone who thinks Jason Bay WANTS to be here and cannot wait for spring training and to be at the park is truly delusional.
And many–if not most–of the 1986 Mets loved each other, drank and partied and chased women together, and were an incredibly tight-knit team.
tkfj2
5/5/2011-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Looking back on last night it makes sense why we lost.
Reliance on Paulino, Harris and Pridie to get the job done in the 6th to get a fly ball is too difficult. The latter two are not major league caliber players at this point in their careers.
Make it Thole, Hairston and Duda, probably would not have made a difference. Lincecum might have K’ed all 3 of them.
We are bad. Maybe not 60 wins bad, but bad. But instead of becoming cognizant of that fact, I’m just going to pretend the team and organization is cursed. I’m going to blame Hojo for ruining everything, and I’m going to continue watching the shtshow.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Just to quickly clarify—I an NOT gloating, and I am as disappointed as anyone here.
I just expected nothing.
And in some sort of way, what’s going on is something of a relief, as it has clearly smashed the somehow still surviving notions entering this year that this group is good enough to compete on a serious level.
After two 4th place finishes in a row, some people STILL thought this team would compete for a WC spot this year.
Last place all year and already being buried in the division is only going to hasten the dramatic, monumental change this team needs to undertake.
And this might be stretching things, but in a way Sandy was wise to let this happen—now we see what this team is, now no one will complain no matter WHO is traded, and now everyone (well, almost everyone) is eager for and clamoring for change.
If the team played way above its head briefly as it did in 2010, they might not have been ready to make wholesale changes. Nothing will stop wholesale change now.
And we should all be thankful for that.
TRS86
5/5/2011-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Eh, as far as fan opinion it will get worse before better. Can’t imagine that most Mets fans are as educated as the ones here at TRDM. They want wins and want them yesterday and can’t see past tomorrow much less this year.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Oh, I agree with that for sure.
But I prefer interacting with the people here.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
I was just reacting to this statement: “now no one will complain no matter WHO is traded, and now everyone (well, almost everyone) is eager for and clamoring for change.”
I am sure there will even be some here that say that these changes are only financially based. I completely disagree with that notion. I think that we need a total make over in how we go about things. Building from within with prospects that we don’t currently have. Looking at the FA market this off-season you can’t buy your way out of this mess. EVEN IF the Mets re-signed Reyes and re-invested all 60M coming off the books they STILL could not win. Not win your rotation would be anchored by Mark Buherle and a recovering Johan. Not saying it’s time for a fire sale but Sandy has some tough decisions to make and there is no easy fix.
gategem
5/5/2011-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
There is no problem with a fire sale along as you obtain top prospects and/or use the salary relief to scout, draft and sign blue-chip prospects. However, if ownership’s mechanism of rebuilding is less about developing a quality franchise and more about targeting financial problems that allow the ownership to avoid selling the franchise while basically constructing the Pittsburgh Pirates East (i.e. east of the Allegheny Plateau ) then the complaints from the fan base, even the passionate ones, will be huge.
saltygary
5/5/2011-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
2 Years ago the team was probably a couple of the RIGHT players away. Now their are 3/4′s of a team away and this can’t be fixed overnight. The FO just needs to keep get that message out.
For me personally I would much rather see a younger team work on development then the hodgepodge of over-rated talent going through the motions.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Bingo, while I would not say 3/4 of a team away it may take that to fix it. IF you somehow had a couple of young stud pitchers to add to the mix of Reyes, Wright, Davis, Niese, etc then you could be competitive. However, we need to come to the realization that we don’t have them on the team or more than likely even in the system and basically have no way of getting them other than making tough decisions.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Sure, if those couple of players were Babe Ruth in 1927 and Bob Gibson in 1968 and maybe Mariano Rivera at his best.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Who in your opinion are the players contributing to this fail?
Because most of the team has turned over more than once since 2006.
And a guy like Jason Bay thrived in Pittsburgh with a cruddy team and then in Boston with a very good team. So what makes you think he changed when he signed with the Mets and now doesn’t care?
If the team is soft, wouldn’t the longest tenured players be the first to be blamed? So shouldn’t we blame Reyes and Wright?
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
That’s why I don’t think it’s about being soft or not caring. Hell I am sure Wright cares to a fault. It’s about the crap that we have surrounding them. The problem is how do you improve that crap? You can’t do it through FA and we don’t have the depth in the organization to fix it.
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Bay? He just got old at the wrong time.
and true about the turn over. Even since 2008 ended (the end of the glory days?), it has been huge. Beyond the owners (blamed for everything I know), you have a new FO and manager and coaches (maybe warthen left from then?)
players? Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Pelf. Pretty sure that is it.
Pelf we know is currently a train wreck, and not adding value. So again, we go right back to the “core”
and of those 3, 2 are having big years so far, and can’t really be blamed for the horrid play, and really even gagging in the clutch. That of course is for this year, they were a big part of the talent gap the last 2!
Wright, him you can point some fingers at.
So, is it all Wrights fault? If not, it just means IMO that the players brought in suck as bad as the ones they replaced for the most part! But you can’t really say their is some inherent culture/team philosophy they all fell under the spell of.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
But we’ve had 3 coaches with 3 equal fails so far. So how is it the team philosophy that’s the problem? Unless of course they all had the same philosophy.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Uh no—Willie was most definitely not an equal fail to Jerry and Terry.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Hard to point fingers at Wright for a slump. Well hell I guess it’s easy reading Mets blogs these days. Fire Wright.
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
I wasn’t looking to point fingers at him. Just trying to get to the bottom of the idea that it is the “same” team, so you get the same results.
if it isn’t because you have the same players, what exactly is the problem? Jeffy? Residual contamination of the minors?
anyway, the biggest thing I was hoping for out of Sandy was to get the people in place to build right from the basement on up, but it will take a few years of course to clean out the accumulated crap.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Bingo.
I think we all knew this year minimum was a stop gap, analysis building, type of year.
I’m willing to see what Sandy & Co. will do going forward – 2011 aside.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
True, but I think we all have to accept that baring a miracle and Omar being hired by another team to be GM, we are not getting that influx of talent by trading Carlos Beltran and Chris Young. Either we will have to wait 5 years for the talent he drafts to develop or we will have to make some tough trades to infuse the organization as a hole.
In other words no matter how great Sandy is you can’t make Chicken salad out of chicken shit.
saltygary
5/5/2011-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
It’s been a long slow fall but the Bay signing was probably the death blow. It was a move out of desperation and appeasement to the fanbase. They could of used that money more wisely and strengthened more areas of the team with a longer tearm approach but instead they tried to fix a bunch leaky holes with one giant plug.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. While I like Bay and still think he will rebound to productive it was another win now move for a team that could not win now. We need a break from the idea of throwing money at the problem. Even if fans do chant it’s because the Wilpons are broke.
In my mind the Wilpons could not have went broke at a better time and looking back on it 10 years from now we might actually be glad they did.
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
I agree 110%. To me, it was the crowning “acheivement” of the Omar plan. Much worse too than Ollie (at the time, not in retrospect).
too bad they did not gut the FO 1 year sooner, since I highly doubt the new guys would have done that deal.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Well, we can go on and on about this and disagree, but I truly believe that David Wright’s candid comments to Bowa on the field last year were the right assessment.
I think the team has degraded every year since 2006.
I really believe there is a culture of failure and apathy here, in the minors too, and it starts every spring when players aren’t in shape.
Why all of the injuries still? Why do minor leaguers come up and not run hard? Why was Wright able to tell Bowa that no one’s in the dugout during the game? Why did Willie Harris favorably compare the culture of the loser Nats with the Mets? What is Mookie saying above? What team consistently is more courteous when NOT attempting to break up double plays? What team allows more and draws fewer walks?
At what point do we accept this as being a culture of apathy and failure?
I DO blame Reyes a lot. He is a horrible clutch player, he has weak instincts, he defiantly proclaimed he cannot always focus, etc. He’s a great talent who will thrive best when surrounded by Delgados, Valentins, etc.
Wright? I think he is about the only guy here who is part of the solution; he comes to camp early, he does not take extended injury time off, and he usually looks dismayed by the losing.
Do Reyes and Beltran appear to give a sh** when they are losing?
Bay? In Boston he was surrounded by a winning culture. In Pittsburgh? Hard to say; he was younger and maybe hungrier and there sure as hell was zero pressure to do anything. Now? I think he clearly wants to be away from this team as much as he can.
Why is Chase Utley in the dugout when he’s hurt? He wants to be there.
How many Mets do?
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
My opinion is that you can’t just hang this on individuals (with the exception of a couple). It’s a collective failure.
They don’t have the best overall talent in the NL east – check.
I also don’t think they have the worst talent either. But that’s exactly what this team is translating to on the field and reflected in their current record.
Pieces will help. But it’s the team as a whole from the staff on down. That has to change. I just don’t believe, as others do, that you need a wholesale fire-type-sale to accomplish it.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Then how do you make those changes? Plugins like Young and Cap as a whole are not going to get it done. Basically the Mets have proven that you can’t do it through FA you have to build from within. If we want to give Sandy 5 years to develop players through the draft and not make any other moves that’s fine. However, what good would Reyes and Wright be then?
Basically we have come to the point that while you don’t need to trade both you almost have to trade one.
saltygary
5/5/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Also just poor evaluation of talent overall. Too much focus on starters and not enough on role players. Guys like Valentin, Easley Chavez provided that spark and the All Starts cleaned house. The bullpen was extremely deep. Then all the money went to the all stars and that where 2009 demonstrated this team lost all it’s depth.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
You had me until Endy. What an overrated player. Built an entire legacy on “the catch”.
saltygary
5/5/2011-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
It was more than that catch. It was his enthusiasm and defense that made otheres around him better.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Sorry can’t agree there.
saltygary
5/5/2011-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
That’s fine I thinks it’s amazing that we’ve been agreeing on anything, bit of a rarity
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Good points.
Some have pointed out failings concerning Reyes. Maybe some are valid.
My point is you don’t’ throw the baby out with the bath water though.
He’s a very good talent. Instead of getting rid of that talent (him along with others), evaluate who should stay, and start surrounding that talent with pieces/other talent who will maximize what we’ve got.
Here’s hoping this is more in lines of the road the FO is going down and 2011 was a type of stop gap year, considering the handicap of finances and evaluation process that was probably going to take more time than 1/2 a year.
oleosmirf
5/5/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
In order for the Mets to trade Reyes they need to get a king’s ransom. They need at least 2 top prospects (one being a pitcher) and that team’s best SS prospect for the Mets to consider moving him.
For example if the Giants want Reyes, it would have to be 1B/OF Brandon Belt, P Eric Surkamp and SS Ehire Adrianza which of course the Giants would never accept.
njstuckintx
5/5/2011-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. They can’t trade Reyes in an apparent salary dump. Ask for the moon. I’m not sure if they would do Belt or Bumgarner straight up, but then again, if that puts them into the mix for the post season this year, they have to consider it.
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I would agree except for the fact that Belt is not just an normal #1 prospect for a team. That’s just not happening. However, Wheeler (their #2) is a very good prospect and would be worthy of building a deal around. As we know with our rotation our #1 might not be as good as another #1. So instead of focusing on getting the “#1″ prospect back they need to focus on turning him into the most talent they can. If that turns out to be keeping him, so be it. If it turns out to be offering arbitration and taking 2 picks so be it. If it turns into prospects #2, 5, 10 from the Giants, praise the lord pass the cornbread.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Anyway, what’s I’m trying to get at (in an admittedly very round-about way) is that it’s incredibly difficult/impossible to pinpoint the team’s issues on any one thing.
Clearly, this team is playing under its talent level. I’m not saying they’re really a 90+ win team, but they’re certainly at least an 80 win team. Reyes/Wright/Murph/Ike/Beltran/Bay/Pagan/Thole is an 80+ win lineup, talentwise. And the pitching staff should be able to support that, based on talent (we all know Pelfrey has the ability to pitch like a #2 starter).
But why aren’t they? What could it be?
Thing that could affect a team:
Players
Competition
Fans
Management – team level
Management – corporate level
You could make arguments for and against all of those affecting the team’s play the last few years.
I think all we can do it keep toying around and rotating things until something clicks.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
“Clearly, this team is playing under its talent level.”
No, this is not “clear.”
“Reyes/Wright/Murph/Ike/Beltran/Bay/Pagan/Thole is an 80+ win lineup”
???
Wright is right now a shell of what he was a few years ago.
Beltran is doing well, but nothing like 2006-2008.
Thole? A kid with potential, who right now is a borderline MLB player.
Bay? Bay’s been TERRIBLE as a Met. Terrible.
Pagan? Please.
When you stop dramatically overrating this very mediocre group, it will become more clear what they are–and have been now going on three years.
Simply mediocre at best.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Yes…how is 80 wins not mediocre? It’s below .500, below average. It’s actually BELOW mediocre!
And yes, Bay has been terrible as a Met, but as I said…I’m talking about TALENT. You really don’t think he has the ABILITY to play decently?
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Prismo, I hate arguing with you because I really like and respect you.
Yes, 80 wins is mediocre. But right now–and all year–they have been playing at a pace for less than 70 wins.
And I totally disagree that the team is clearly playing below its talent level.
Jason Bay was last a very good offensive player when playing in Boston at the end of 2009.
He was very weak last year. He has played ten games this year, driven in a run in one of those games, and looks precisely as he did last year. No, I think his days as a borderline all-star are over.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Actually they were playing to 74 wins after that 6 game winning streak.
I’m also fairly sure that you just argue for the sake of arguing.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
The talent level on this team is not a 100 loss team. But it’s sure heading down that road. I still contend it’s b/c it’s not just about the talent and only the talent.
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Pretty sure you could have said that about the 1993 squad too!
TRS86
5/5/2011-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Well I think that part of it is what master Dickey said.
While they may have more talent than 100 losses they do not have the talent that everyone thinks. Thus instead of accepting they are not good, they go out and cave to the pressure of being something they are not. Then to no avail they continue to lose placing more pressure and more of a defeatist attitude.
Thus what they have to do as an organization, and we most likely as fans, is realize what Dickey said. Perhaps we are what we are. Just below competitive and trying to put pressure to make them into something they are not just slows down development.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Hmm…perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps most of us debating this, this morning are more or less saying the same thing.
Your comments seem to be more or less what I was trying to point out. Not a top contending team in 2011, but not this god awful play we’re currently watching either.
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
master dickey?
You spend too much time around teenagers!
TRS86
5/5/2011-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Eh can’t say that Dickey’s comments don’t come off sometimes as Mr. Miyagi.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Wax on, wax off?
oleosmirf
5/5/2011-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
the problem this season has been the SP and the bad start by Wright. Other than Young, the other 4 guys have been pretty bad so far with Pelfrey looking terrible.
Would be nice to see how this team plays with that full lineup healthy and on the field…
Ceetar
5/5/2011-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
sometimes toying and rotating is just as detrimental as doing nothing.
I think we’re back to the backup argument again. Harris is not a good player. I thought Hairston was, but he hasn’t played like it for sure. Pridie probably isn’t either. So Bay unexpectedly misses a lot of games, Pagan manages to get hurt as well after slumping. Wright’s off to his typical slow April. Suddenly a very potent lineup has tons of holes.
The pitching gets off to a slow start, due to cold weather, actual colds, ineffectiveness and adjustments, and perhaps some general flat out sucktitude. But they’re better than that too.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I agree with much of this. The depth and bench is AAA level, which does kill an already mediocre team. Pridie, Turner, and Hu do not belong in the majors. Nor does Nickeas.
But this lineup was never, ever going to be “very potent.”
Unless it all of a sudden becomes 2007 or 2008.
I ask respectfully Ceetar—do you think it is possible that Bay is over the hill and Pagan overperformed last year?
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Oh, the bench is terrible. Hu/Hairston/Harris have been abysmal. There’s no talent there, these guys just stink.
darknova306
5/5/2011-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
“Not living up to their potential”
“They’re too talented to play like this”
These two statements have been the rally cry for so many Mets the past couple years. At some point we need to take a long hard look at reality and readjust our expectations for potential and talent.
-Bay is a shell of his former self
-Wright is starting to look like a shell of his former self
-Pelfrey looks like Ollie part 2
-Dickey appears to be a typical up-and-down knuckler
-The bench redefines the word atrocious
-The list goes on…
A lot of our players have been overrated by the fans. Time to change that mentality and realize this team is not underperforming, they’re performing as they should.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
sherpaderphurrdurr
Love kingman and nova completely misreading what I wrote. Absolutely love the selective reading.
Just because I said they’re playing below their talent level doesn’t mean I think they’re a good team. Maybe their talent level is 80 wins, but they’re playing for like 65 wins.
80 wins is not a good team. I don’t think this is a good team. I’m not a nutty optimist or making some sort of misguided rally cry. I just think they’re slightly less bad than they’re playing.
darknova306
5/5/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
I wasn’t responding to you. It was a response to all of the “not playing to their capabilities” comments throughout this thread and many others the past few years.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Prismo, what I am primarily disagreeing with is your saying “Clearly, this team is playing under its talent level.”
Come on, stop with the “selective” nonsense.
I really think they may be a sub-70 win team, OK?
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
LOL….actually, I thought this started with disputing what I started. Almost sorry now I started this…..
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Dark, I agree with every word of this.
And sadly, so does reality and what we have seen the last 30 games.
oleosmirf
5/5/2011-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Wright, Reyes and Santana are perennial all-stars and have proven it as a NYM. Get rid of Bay, K-Rod, Beltran and stop signing guys to big contracts whose best years are behind them. Get as many top pitching prospects as we can and continue rebuilding.
Build the team around those 3 players and eventually we will make the playoffs…
darknova306
5/5/2011-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
By the time they make the playoffs Reyes’ legs will be degrading, Santana will be on the back end of that contract and likely relegated to the back of the rotation, and who the hell knows if Wright will ever go back to the player he was in 06-08. Blow it up and start fresh.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Not if they don’t ‘build a team’ that has any better pieces than the ones thrown together right now.
And I’d keep Niese and Ike as well.
And that’s the big key here.
I can only hope Sandy & Co. can accomplish what Omar & Co. apparently could not.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Johan was a perennial all-star years ago.
Wright sure as hell ain’t an all-star right now.
TRS86
5/5/2011-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
Again not fair to Wright, he certainly was an all-star caliber 3B last year. 30 HR, 100 RBI, 20 steals from 3B? All-star. Saying he is not this year is like saying Albert Pujols is not an all-star. NO I am not saying Wright is on the same level as Pujols. However, I think that Wright has earned our patience.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Suggesting that Johan IS an all-star and that we should build around him is, sorry TRS, absolutely ridiculous, and a prime example of deluding ourselves, hanging on to the past, and dramatically overrating our players in their current state.
TRS86
5/5/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Where did I say Johan is an all-star. Hell at this point we don’t even know if he will be an MLB pitcher.
kingman 26
5/5/2011-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Nowhere!
I was responding to Oleo’s above statement!
You responded to my response, so there you have it.
TRS86
5/5/2011-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
LOL, and I was arguing with part of your statement to Oleo not the other part.
oleosmirf
5/5/2011-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
we have no choice but to keep Santana since he is injured, however, the Santana of 2010 was still one of the best pitchers in baseball.
Who knows what he will be when he returns but we’ll still have to pay him…
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
All that said, tonight’s lineup with Hu and Hairston in it is about a 43 win team’s lineup. Not to mention Pelfrey, who I have no faith in for the time being.
darknova306
5/5/2011-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Seconded. Hu and Hairston (and Harris, for that matter) have no business being on a ML team. And Pelfrey… oy. This could be ugly.
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
really? Amazing. Hu with a start? For Reyes I assume? hell, if he needs a day off, start Turner at SS.
If nothing else, maybe if these 2 completely blow chunks today they will force sandy to make some moves.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Hu’s starting at 2nd for Murph.
Prismo
5/5/2011-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
“Hu is batting second. Playing second. Is this a recycled jerry lineup? I’m scared. #mets” -ceetar
Jerry Collins strikes again!
stickguy
5/5/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
OMG, playing 2nd? why? Even Turner is not that bad.
and hitting him 2nd should be a fireable offense.
I was actually a Terry supporter when he got the job, but I am off that bandwagon big time.
Jerry Collins is almost starting to be an insult to Jerry!
saltygary
5/5/2011-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Because HU has barely played but he is really batting second. Oy vey.
njstuckintx
5/5/2011-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Maybe this could be a good thing.
TC – “Hey Hu, you got 4 ABs today.”
Hu – “Really?!?”
TC – “Yeah. Sandy wil be watching… Said something about going 4-4 or else or something like that…”
HU – 이런 젠장!!
saltygary
5/5/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
HAHAHAHa
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
You know, I heard Terry’s post game comments last night. He was largely spot on.
However, his in game strategies and lineups he’s throwing out there are half the reason we’ve got a problem.
TC is a far cry better than Jerry concerning the concept of management style but it’s getting harder and harder to distinguish his management strategies from Jerry’s.
Ugh….good think they only gave him a 2 year contract.
njstuckintx
5/5/2011-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
JC was not a wanted sign when he came here, but i gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now… There is no benefit. the 2 spot is not someplace to hide bad hitters. you do that in the 8th spot. and if there are more bad hitters, you put them in the 7th spot. then the 6th.. etc.
TRS86
5/5/2011-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. And so much for those that think Sandy is controlling Terry.
Prismo
5/5/2011-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
What about those who think Sandy hired Terry?
Sandy, so highly built on using the percentages to win…hires a manager who bats Hu second?
kingman 26
5/5/2011-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
“Sandy, so highly built on using the percentages to win…hires a manager who bats Hu second?”
This indeed is a very strong piece of evidence with which to question Collins as a manager.
oleosmirf
5/5/2011-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
maybe he feels that batting him 2nd will get him more fastballs which could get his bat going and build confidence where as batting 8th he’ll be pitched around and get nothing to hit with the pitcher on deck.
stickguy
5/5/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
maybe he is a senile old past his time dinosaur!
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Jeeze….Murph is what? 23? 24? And he hasn’t played everyday. There is absolutely, positively no good reason why Hu should be playing instead of Murph this afternoon.
Hu, Harris, Hairston all can go, IMO.
njstuckintx
5/5/2011-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Can we start a position for Go Big Everyday Murph!?
tkfj2
5/5/2011-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Hu in against a lefty. Yeah…….Turner still exists Terry.
If Hu gets a hit today I’ll streak naked and send you all the video.
metsfan4decades
5/5/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
hahahaha – I’m kinda hoping he doesn’t now. Don’t want to have to bail you out of jail, TK.
TRS86
5/5/2011-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Damn you making me root against the Mets.
stickguy
5/5/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
thinking you are safe on this bet TK