OK, so all of you that know me also know that I have been resistant to throw the Wilpons under the bus. Waiting until more information to come out, realizing that they had put a ton of money into trying to make the Mets into a contender but as we all know since 2006 the team has went no where and fast. We have consistently blamed everyone from Beltran to Wright to Reyes to Heilman to Glavine to Willie to Jerry to Hojo to especially one Omar Minya. After today all that blame goes away and rest solely on the shoulders of ONE dumb-ass who has brought the world down on the Mets while in turn throwing his best players under the bus. What a travesty. Hopefully this is just a guy that has decided that ultimately this break up will occur and he is getting in his parting shots, otherwise this team is doomed from the beginning and we are in deed in for a dark time, maybe the darkest in Mets history.
So what the hell am I talking about?
Madoff’s Curveball
Thanks to Metsblog for the link.
Here are some fine quotes from the man himself:
“He thinks he’s going to get Carl Crawford money,” Wilpon said, referring to the Red Sox’ signing of the former Tampa Bay player to a seven-year, $142-million contract. “He’s had everything wrong with him,” Wilpon said of Reyes. “He won’t get it.”
Wright, the team’s marquee attraction, has started the season dreadfully at the plate. “He’s pressing,” Wilpon said. “A really good kid. A very good player. Not a superstar.”
“We had some schmuck in New York who paid him based on that one series,” he said, referring to himself. In the course of playing out his seven-year, $119-million contract with the Mets, Beltran, too, has been hobbled by injuries. “He’s sixty-five to seventy per cent of what he was.”
Ike Davis, the sophomore first baseman and the one pleasant surprise for the Mets so far this season, was up next. “Good hitter,” Wilpon said. “Shitty team—good hitter.” Davis struck out. Angel Pagan flied out to right, ending the Mets’ threat. “Lousy clubs—that’s what happens.” Wilpon sighed.
“We’re snakebitten, baby,” Wilpon said.
Now, I have been burned before and I will throw this disclaimer in. The article linked above seems so offensive, so idiotic, so disastrous that my hoax meter is indeed tipping red. However, the story is appearing on Metsblog and has already been verified by Adam Rubin. Today should be quite interesting in Mets world. Exactly what they needed to take peoples mind of what had been over the course of the last 25 games a very enjoyable team to watch.
173 comments
kistics
5/23/2011-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
As I said, I really HATE the fact that this crap draws attention from how well the team has been playing. I know they were not WS bound, but it felt like they are slowly turning the corner, and this crap comes out.
Everything trickles from the top. Shit rolls from the top down.
njstuckintx
5/23/2011-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
At this point, I hope that Picard destroys Fred and Jeff. Force a sale.
njstuckintx
5/23/2011-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
Anyone considered starting up the Real Dirty Royals Blog or something?
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
hahahaha….depend on how big this s***storm gets
kingman 26
5/23/2011-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
This is very hard to believe.
But Toobin is definitely the type who plays on someone’s trust to get them to say things they wouldn’t and then to print them for his own benefit.
Really difficult to believe that Fred would say these things publicly, but Toobin is definitely the type of snake journalist who would be able to elicit this, if anyone could.
But Fred calling Omar a “schmuck”??
Really is very hard to believe this is all true.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
I dont know much about reporters and their tactics but at least we know how fred really feels. Fred is the idiot who would admit this to a reporter. You NEVER say stuff like that to a reporter…
kingman 26
5/23/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
True, true, true.
But I know Toobin’s history, and I can totally picture him having a few drinks with Fred, discussing leftist politics and Israel, getting Fred to be his buddy, then getting him to make private remarks which he would have thought were going to stay private.
That’s how guys like Toobin operate.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Yea but king…im sure you would agree that unless its in writing that he will not print xyz, he can write xyz. I agree this was probably said in confidence but cmon…how stupid can you be to be an owner and trust a reporter…
kingman 26
5/23/2011-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Agreed 100%. Really I do agree.
Fred was a moron to say things like this to a guy like Toobin, absolutely and positively.
But I also would imagine that Toobin probably had Fred thinking they were pals and that some of it would stay between them.
But you are 100% absolutely right; Fred should not go near a guy like Toobin.
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Kong:
If you read the full text of the New Yorker article, Toobin notes that Wilpon was referring to himself as the schmuck…not Omar.
Anyway, these quotes occurred while Toobin was a guest of Wilpon’s in Fred’s personal box at Citi after a day following him around and interviewing him at Citi.
There doesn’t seem anything snake like about that. Does Fred not realize that things he says during an interview may be published? C’mon. You’re killing the messenger.
njstuckintx
5/23/2011-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
per the MLBTR snippet on the article, the schmuck remark was supposedly pointed at himself (fred). And I’m not a beltran apologist, but the dude’s stats as a Met are near the top in most categories. How do you call that a bad sign? And he currently is only 75-80% of himself? Beltran is 7 years older from when he signed. Did he expect him to still be running at 95+%?
I don’t want to hear from an owner, ever. Just sit in the back ground and count your sacks of cash.
kistics
5/23/2011-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
agreed.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
wow…talk about a bombshell. How could he be so stupid is beyond me. Wonder how this affects negotiation processes from here on out
kistics
5/23/2011-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Not only this well affect Jose Reyes contract negotiation, but all future FA negotiations.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Yup. Either way the guy is a mistrusting fool.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
seriously…I dont know how he has stayed in business this long with the kind of people bs meter he has.
kingman 26
5/23/2011-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Sorry, but while these remarks are horrible, I can very easily see Toobin sidling up to Fred, playing the religion and politics cards, sympathizing with his plight, and getting Fred to let his guard down and share things he probably never thought would be printed.
Terrible remarks if true, zero doubt, but probably never ever intended to be published or heard by anyone other than Toobin.
I am no right-winger, but Toobin is a media parasite.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I don’t doubt this, however, the damage is done.
Just like Omar’s comments on Rubin. I am sure there was truth to what he brought up but you can’t get beyond it regardless. Let the selling begin.
kistics
5/23/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Regardless of how this Toobin guy works, Fred should know better.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. How do you get past this? Pay the guy off to say it was a hoax? I have no frigging clue. How if you are Reyes do you even think about re-signing? How if you are Wright do you not demand a trade once Reyes is traded? If you are Beltran, demand the trade yesterday. Force the issue and make it where the Wilpons do not get crap from the trade. Come out and say I will only be traded to….
This is BAD, BAD, BAD news for the Mets, regardless of Fred’s intentions.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
just when you thought you can hit the bottom of the rabbit hole…I guess this is what happens when you fire Omar and dont have anyone for bad pr…take one for the team!
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
exactly…fred should know better.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Isnt that his job though king…to get the truth by any means? Im sure they teach reporters the cards to use to get the real answer. Its like getting mad at Boras for making his clients the most money possible imo
kistics
5/23/2011-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. It’s not Toobin’s job to filter this crap in his article. It’s Fred’s job to shut up and keep it to himself.
kingman 26
5/23/2011-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Yes Dirty, but the comments on Reyes and Wright and Beltran have less than nothing to do with truth—-they are opinion and sensational opinion; this is what today’s media is after—not truth, but web hits/publicity/more money.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Sure, the guy wants to make money. Every reporter that interviews Obama is looking for the one story to make him a superstar. However, just as it’s the presidents job to guard his words so is it the job of Fred. This is a disastrous article and the ONLY fault I see is 100% on the man himself.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Shouldn’t fred know that though? Its not like he made one “got ya” comment, he made about 3 or 4. You cannot really be that stupid to believe that the reporter would keep that to himself…
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Exactly, Fred knew full well these comments would get out. I have no idea what he thought the result would be.
oleosmirf
5/23/2011-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Im not going to further comment on the stupidity of his words because as long as they resign Reyes, this team has a chance to compete in the next few years.
I think its pretty safe to say Beltran, K-Rod and Bay will not be on the team next season and the Mets will do everything they can to resign Reyes. An infield of Wright (28), Reyes (27), Davis (24) and Havens (24) is essential to the rebuilding process and a foundation to build around.
Even if it means overpaying for Reyes, he is the heart and soul of this team and despite the fact that this team has not been successful, the Mets would have no chance without him…
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Oleo, if you are Wright or Reyes then why WOULD you re-sign or want to be on the Mets? Either can get just as much praise or money especially from other teams. I think at this point it’s clear that we are in for dark days until they sell the team.
You think this sounds like a man that will overpay Jose Reyes?
oleosmirf
5/23/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think he has a choice if he wants to keep the team. What are they going to go into next season with a 75 mil payroll?
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
I have no idea Oleo, but when you say that Reyes has had everything happen to him and will never get big money does that sound like a guy wanting to overpay?
oleosmirf
5/23/2011-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
I think its true. Yankees and Red Sox wont be in the market and Reyes (who was injured for 2 seasons) is not going to get the same money as Crawford whom was a consistent .300 hitter and all star for 7-8 years.
Not to mention that Crawfords terrible start might preclude teams from spending that kind of money for a similar player.
He’ll get 100-120 but not 142.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Yeah I will agree that he will not get Crawford money, I have said that all along for many of the same reasons that Fred alluded to. That does not make what he said any less stupid.
However, to say the Yankees and Red Sox will not be in the market is foolish IMO. The Yankees are always in the market and Reyes is a perfect fit for the Red Sox. Lowrie is not their long-term option at SS and the Sox know that already.
Also, do you not think that these comments most likely force the Mets to pay even more for Reyes than they would have originally?
njstuckintx
5/23/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
For enough $$$ and years, yes.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, again I think it would take more now than it would have earlier. I think Reyes may have signed an extension but now I think 100% that if he is not traded he will go to FA and to the highest bidder. That comment could have cost the Mets a lot of money and or talent.
If you are another GM and here these comments wouldn’t you offer less thinking that Fred knows he is not re-signing him?
rustyjr
5/23/2011-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Fred is a tool – plain & simple
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
A tool of mass destruction!
IB_Twaddle
5/23/2011-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Regardless of whether or not Wilpon actually made these statements,
what exactly was said that is not the truth? Reyes has been plagued by injury and probably won’t get Crawfor money, Wright is not a superstar, The “Schmuck” in NY is Wilpon speaking of himself, Beltran is a shadow of his former self and Davis is a good hitter on a shitty team.
What is so “terrible” here? These are grown men.
If anything I give Wilpon credit for honesty.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Honesty has no place in entertainment…period. You NEVER say what you REALLY feel when your trying to sell something.
IB_Twaddle
5/23/2011-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I’ll save my high dudgeon for something other than “entertainment”. and heep my indignation on more despicable targets then Fred Wilpon.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Fred is NOT a fan. We are fans, we can say Jason Bay sucks and Wright is a choke. However, when you are the owner of a team you can’t say that crap.
It does not matter if Wright is a superstar or not, what matters is that he IS the face of your franchise and you should be building him up, not tearing him down.
How about the fact that he called the team a “shitty” team. How hard do you want to play for an owner that trashes you in the media? Why as a FA would you want to come to the Mets? Why as a current player would you want to come back? What the hell is the purpose of the quotes?
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
That would be my question…what the hell was he thinking. You dont trash your brand and then turn around to sell it. You said that crap to the NEW YORK MEDIA. In about .5 seconds, this will hit ESPN/MLB network and now your on NATIONAL media. People will know what you said…how in the hell will that help bring people to the stadium?? To watch what THE OWNER OF THE NEW YORK METS DESCRIBES AS A “SHITTY” TEAM!!! This guy is beyond stupid…good luck getting the best return selling the team after you yourself trashed it. It hurts my head to think about his stupidity
kistics
5/23/2011-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Truth or not, the owner of the team should not say this about his players in public. ESPECIALLY when you have so much crap going on around you.
These statements will have consequences not only to Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Pelf, but all the other players in this team as well as potential FAs that the Mets would want to sign. Citifield is not the best place for position players to come and it was definitely shown with Wright and Bay. And now you have the owner saying this crap? No way you draw a good talent to this team.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, dark dark dark days ahead until Fred is gone. We have seen the reason the Mets can’t move past 2006 and he has to go.
Seriously, it starts with him mocking Beltran and basically blaming him for the loss in 2006.
oleosmirf
5/23/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
the problem has been poor drafting, poor free agent signings and injuries. Mocking Beltran and saying the team is shitty has zero effect on what happens on the field.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I disagree completely. Yeah those things are problems, however Fred is behind those as well. But you look at what it boils down to is that the team lost confidence in 2007 and has never regained it. You think that an owner’s comments and thoughts have no impact on team performance, I disagree.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
I just spent the last 10-15 minutes reading that entire article, not just the snippits being published all over.
I wanted to get a feel for where this guy was coming from.
I have to agree that as the owner of the NY Mets, you don’t make off the cuff type comments to a reporter, no matter what the situation.
However, the extreme admittedly cynical side of my nature can’t help but wonder if some of those comments about the players were printed out of context. I just can’t help but think that none were just one or two sentence comments thrown out there, but rather part of a bigger discussion. Often reporters will cherry pick comments to slant the overall flavor of an article towards the path he wants to go down.
Can’t say I’m as upset as some here on this article. Doesn’t surprise me that Fred has private thoughts outside of ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ regarding this team and the Madoff scandal. I just have to wonder though, even if these comments were part of a bigger discussion, if Fred is losing his edge on knowing better who he should and should not be discussing these type of things with.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
Fred is obviously a fool when it comes who to trust. However, I think that these comments were indeed in context. They were said in a series as these players came to bat. Obviously Fred was frustrated at the time but as an owner you are ALWAYS the owner. You are the owner when you are angry, frustrated, drunk and old. If you are doing damage to the team then you need to either go into hiding or be removed.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
This one is pretty good, from MB comment section:
“Perhaps Wilpon felt he’d be #raptured before the article went to print.”
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
HAHAHHAHAHAH
+1000000
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
The New Yorker author, Jeffrey Toobin, just talked with WFAN and said:
* He met five different times with Fred Wilpon.
* Talking with Wilpon was like sitting with another Mets fan, ‘The views he expressed are very common among Mets fans.”
* The Mets have been VERY frustrated with how they’ve been portrayed by the media, in regards to the Madoff story.
* After spending time with Fred and the team, he believes that in all likelihood they will try to re-sign Reyes and keep David Wright, but, after that, “there will be a huge house cleaning.”
* “If the they lose this lawsuit, they will have to sell the Mets.”
* The Mets will bring in a minority shareholder at some point this summer.
* “Fred is a stand-up guy,” “I don’t think he’s going to deny these statements.”
* They are betting the team on Sandy Alderson.
TRS86
5/23/2011-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
WHY would Reyes or Wright want to stay with actions and statements like these?
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
From being called “soft” from omar a few years ago and now this…why would you want to stay…
kistics
5/23/2011-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
We all know that this team is not a WS contending team. We all know that at BEST, this team will win 85 games this season. But this team has been enjoyable to watch. It finally felt like this team is on the right track and is slowly turning the corner.
But when this sh*t comes out now, what the f— do you expect from the players? I mean do you honestly expect to see quality baseball this season? Do you expect to see the players going 100% for the team? The season is done.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. The only thing they could do now is pull a Major League and rally around their hate.
kistics
5/23/2011-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Well.. that’s an optimistic view. If I were Beltran or Reyes, I would not play hurt. I would not dive to catch a flyball. I would not try to steal bases if there’s a chance to get hurt. I would not slide hard into 2nd base to breakup the double play. I’m worried about staying healthy and racking up stats.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, it’s a fine line for those two especially. You have to do enough to raise your contract value but not enough to risk injury. You certainly would not be doing it for the love of the Mets anymore IMO.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Can the Mets stop tripping over themselves…jeez. This is getting ridiculous now. You dont here this crap coming from the Red Sox or Phillies. Why do they always need to have a negative media story to bring attention to the team…its not hard to just keep your mouth shut and opinions to yourself.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Yup, that is what I don’t get. We have been looking for why the shoe always seems near dropping and IMO we now know exactly why that is.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Seriously the two biggest names to your brand and you are trashing them? What the hell are you thinking? In a time that you can’t sell tickets as is you are telling the fans that the only two players you have that are close to being superstars are overrated.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Im seriously trying to find some angle to this as to why you could be this stupid and I really cant…
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, me either. That was why my hoax meter was up. It appears though that some things this extreme are actually true.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
This occurred to me.
If you read the entire article, it made it sound like Fred rose from lower middle class to rich in a class that most of us can’t even fathom. Once he bought the NY Mets, he moved into a circle (especially in NY) that very few are in.
Made it sound like he’s had very little business adversity along that path and everything he touched turned to gold.
Along comes the Madoff scandal and to a lesser extent the failure of the NY Mets over these past few years and he had no clue how to handle it or spin it. He can’t get past the mindset of his ‘Sterling’ reputation is in question. He’s not thinking straight and at this point he’d be better off keeping his mouth shut. The fact that he’s not just tells me he’s out of touch all the way around. His admitted comments on his shrine to Ebbets field and his miscalculating the fans reaction to no Met history sort of supports this.
The sooner her resigns himself to the fact that he’s going to lose, the better off he’ll be. But from everything I’m reading, it’s not going to happen. He just can’t get past it.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
I hear ya and like matt said…..people will totally overlook the overall context of the article and focus on his comments about HIS team. I dont know what gold you can make when you sell it as shitty imo…
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I agree with all of this.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps I am slightly overreacting but to me like an old cartoon a light-bulb just went off as to the real cause for our “snake bitten” issues since 2006.
kingman 26
5/23/2011-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Have to run, busy day, but Dirty, TRS, etc, I TOTALLY agree that Wilpon was a total ass for saying these things; it is even worse that he actually thinks them.
I think he is a complete liar, and has become clearly an awful owner.
Please don’t let my disdain for today’s media confuse the fact that I know that Fred was a total moron for saying this stuff to a reporter like Toobin–a VERY well-known muckraker type focused on sensationalism, and that it is VERY sad that Fred thinks these things, and worst of all, it might negatively impact keeping Reyes and Wright.
Most of all, it shows the incredible arrogance, isolation, and out-of-touch nature of a man like Fred Wilpon.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, dark dark day in Mets history IMO.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
Honestly, it doesn’t surprise me at all that Fred thinks these things. Many fans think the same way.
It’s just a total lack of ‘WTF were you thinking’ of stating them to a reporter that has me shocked.
Fred has lost his ‘edge’, or rather as I previously stated, I don’t think he’s got a clue how to handle any of this b/c he can’t get past the idea that he’s in the position he’s in right now.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Agreed again. The validity of the statements are not what I question, it’s the fact that as the owner of the Mets considering where they currently are why the hell would you trash your brand.
oleosmirf
5/23/2011-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
hopefully all 500 people in the stands bring their Sell the Team posters and chant it all game long…
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
LOL, great comment.
IB_Twaddle
5/23/2011-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Well, the Village has spoken and with righteous indignation sentenced Wilpon to a dunking and public humiliation at the pillary.
Is this about baseball anymore? No.
Goodbye
And by the way, no FA would give a shit one way or another.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
I think it will if this affects reyes or wrights decision to stay with a team whos owner says these things in the media…The Mets minus wright and reyes = even more shitty.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Later.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
OK I tried to leave it alone but I can’t.
You honestly think that players do not notice these types of things? You think that it’s always just ah I will go to the highest bidder? Why do you think that some teams HAVE to be the highest bidder? Why do think Lee chose to return to the Phillies? Again, this is not just a comic statement from the Mets owner but one that will prove VERY costly to him in terms of cash and most likely in talent obtained.
How the hell do you call a GM now and try to talk up Beltran in a trade when you have said yourself he is only half of what he was?
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I’ve been wondering for the past month or so what the players for the Dodgers must be thinking…..
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Happy because they are going to get a new owner.
IB_Twaddle
5/23/2011-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
This from Collins today:
“I want to make sure the foot’s OK first,” Collins said. “I want to make sure that he’s moving, not that Ike’s the fastest guy, anyway. But I want to make sure, because the quickness and his defense are a big part of his game.”
Well, if I’m Ike Davis I’m putting the team on notice that he
doesn’t appreciate “being called slow” and will not hustle the rest of his time with the team.
And who could blame him. Right?
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Did he call him shitty?
IB_Twaddle
5/23/2011-3:41pm at 3:41 pm (UTC -4)
He didn’t call anybody shitty. He called the team shitty.
Let’s put it another way – how many times have you heard a manager talking about his team saying “We stink right now”?
Does that infuriate you? I bet it doesn’t.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
I love how people defending fred are comparing him to the george steinbrenner…FRED IS NOT GEORGE
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Have to agree there, not even close.
George was a ruthless, cutthroat type of business man. Fred is a golden boy type that valued his reputation above all else. George was not all that concerned about a sterling reputation as much as he was obsessed with winning.
Both have their faults.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Agreed but the Main difference…how many rings does George have over Fred…end of story imo.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Well that’s kind of my point. George would stop at nothing and anything to win – reputation be damned.
Jeeze, the guy was suspended once from MLB and didn’t stop him from turning around and doing something even more questionable to get banned for life (which was subsequently reversed). Not to mention the Billy Martin circus, etc. that always surrounded the team in George’s hey day. Read an article from some current and former employee’s of George and they way they tell it, it wasn’t unusual to get calls at all hours of the night from George, to be summoned on a plane somewhere even on Xmas, to be called away from your own child’s wedding. George got an idea or bug up his ass, all were expected to jump.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
They have also built their reputations. George could make comments like these because the players knew where George was coming from. They knew to take things with a grain of salt and everything was angled to what is best for the Yankees. These comments from Fred are out of character and just plain shocking with absolutely NO value to the Mets.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Heres the National News….this is what happens when you are stupid:
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=6577486
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Exactly, it does not matter how true the comments were, what Fred wanted to imply, what else was said in the article. All that matters is this is the headline:
Fred Wilpon takes shots at Mets players
All that needs to be said.
oleosmirf
5/23/2011-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
I do agree that Pelfrey should be traded as well…
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Eh, hold on. Fred needs to call him shitty to get his trade value up first.
njstuckintx
5/23/2011-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
Indeed. With his escalating salary and deflating intestinal fortitude, I would not miss Pelf too much.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Another one from MB that seems appropriate:
“There is no defending what this dope said. You never ever throw your team under the bus like that. He called the Mets a shitty team, if a player on an opposing team said that we would be calling for every Met pitcher to drill them in the noggin. Instead our own friggin owner said it, and what? We are supposed to believe he some uber fan from the street that we should get behind?”
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
DPLennon: When Fred says “schmuck” who paid Beltran, I really think he’s throwing Omar under bus there – not himself.
smh…..
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
The author indicates he was referring to himself. And he is the guy who agreed to sign the check so the shoe fits.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. But likely that he threw Omar there as well.
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
The inference is there, yes.
Which makes it even worse. It’s one thing to call yourself a schmuck to drag Omar’s reputation in because you’re irresponsible with your words is — in his words — “shitty,” even if unintentional.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Have to agree.
I don’t think Fred gets that there are millions of fans, hundreds of reporters following this team and every little thing you do is going to be offered up for interpretation. In his real estate world, he’s lucky if 100 people even notice what he’s doing/saying, let alone report on it.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Well this kind of over shadows losing the series to the Yankees and that debacle in yesterday’s game.
George must be rolling over in his grave that the Mets have taken front and center on the back pages instead of his team taking the series and that come from behind win yesterday. lol.
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Killing the messenger here is stupid. I just don’t understand why so many on this site continue to do it. These was an article profiling Wilpon which he apparently agreed to participate in via his participation. There was nothing sneaky here. Ridiculous.
As for the quotes. They are true statements (to the extent you are convinced Reyes won’t get his pay day). And we probably all agree with them.
But the stupidity of an owner willing to alienate his best players (and potentially hurt any leverage they have in a Reyes trade) is startling. It is beyond bad PR. It is bad business.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I don’t see anyone but Kingman even starting to give some blame to the author on this one and even he puts the blame on Fred.
It does not matter how the author coaxed the comments out, fact is they are said and will cause a shit storm that he will not believe.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Exactly. The Mets already have an issue getting fans to the stadium…how the hell do you expect to “attract and bring more fans to the stadium” by saying what he said TO A REPORTER! This is obviously how he really feels, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. Like you said Wanny, its bad business for a team that already had enough bad business since citifields opening.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Yup, come out and see the average Mets who only have a few things to offer you and they are vastly overrated.
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
average? they’re shitty!!
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, just thinking as a fan I see they are around .500 and with 3 players that are the marquee attraction are overrated and one of the cornerstones of the team is as good as gone.
kingman 26
5/23/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Geez Wanny, you worship media snakes; just don’t see why.
I DID NOT “blame” Toobin. Everywhere I said Fred was an arrogant, out-of-touch fool for saying ANY of this to Toobin.
But Toobin’s not curing cancer or inventing the frigin wheel here. Or exposing Watergate or blame for the Exxon Valdez or solving a crime. He’s writing an entertainment piece.
He–clearly–did his best to make Fred as comfy as possible while Fred’s guest, to get Fred to take him into his confidence, so he could destroy Fred’s credibility with EVERYONE so Toobin could sell more magazines.
FRED IS A MORON FOR DOING THIS. HE IS AT FAULT 100%.
But Toobin—like Rubin—is a totally disingenuous snake who will do anything to further his own career.
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
He “clearly” did all that?
His intention was to destroy Fred’s credibility?
The stuff you say about these people is as irresponsible as what you claim they do.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Yet again:
“feel badly for Sandy Alderson and Terry Collins and the Mets players for the backlash that Fred’s comments will cause … more distractions, more headaches. Just what they need. How can you right a ship when the ship builder keeps shooting holes in the sides. Best of luck to David, Jose, and Carlos … it was nice knowing you. You definitely deserved more respect. ”
Metsblog actually seems rational today. Maybe I am slipping.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Well…doesnt take much IQ to realize how bad this story is…especially on an OFF DAY!
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
How will Sandy’s negotiations work for a trade of Reyes when there will not be any perception now that the Mets can keep Reyes? No leverage there at all.
Tomorrow will be a fun day for players to show up to the park, who after having exceeded expectations recently, have been called shitty by the self-proclaimed schmuck who signs their checks.
oleosmirf
5/23/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I think his numbers are more significant than offhand comments by a disgraced owner
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
No one is going to pay more than they feel they need to. Numbers or not.
TRS86
5/23/2011-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Wanny. This will have disastrous results. Dark, Dark Day. If I was Sandy and there was an out I would get the hell out of the water.
saltygary
5/23/2011-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Seems to me we always kill the owner because he never speaks the truth and just hides behind the PR speak. Now he speaks out like one of us and he gets killed for it.
Personally I would not of said those things but he’s not dumb enough to know that if he says them they won’t get out. Maybe Fred is just trying to show that he is on the same page and he’s frustrated enough that PR be dammed. I am not a fan of the Wipon’s and the sooner they are gone the better it is for the team. Frankly what he said is the truth and it’s refreshing to see the reality from the top.
saltygary
5/23/2011-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Also as an employee if I wasn’t performing below expectation’s I would be on a warning and to an even greater extent let go. It’s silly to suggest that these guys can’t handle hearing things like that they don’t deserve big money due to injuries or performance. They are men not babies. We all have to deal with truth and reality and so should they.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Wright is the face of your franchise, brings in tons of $$ in jerseys, is virtually jeter flawless in public pr and his boss doesnt think he is a superstar? I dont think Wright will go into a rocking fetal position and cry in the corner but im sure it changes Wrights perception of what he has done here and how he is appreciated.
saltygary
5/23/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
His evaluation is the truth and it speaks nothing of off the field activities only on the field performance. I feel Wright himself would say he has not played at a “superstar” level.
“Wright, the team’s marquee attraction, has started the season dreadfully at the plate. “He’s pressing,” Wilpon said. “A really good kid. A very good player. Not a superstar.””
Is this really so damning?
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
You are trying to market your product. You should be saying that the face of your franchise that is under contract for 2.5 more years is the best thing since Jumping Joe and has been playing hurt and will return to 2006 numbers. Even if you don’t believe a word of it.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
um..yea. Is anybody going to say albert isnt a superstar because he has started off cold? Bottom line, Wright is the face of your franchise, as a businessman you should be hyping the crap out of wright in public even though you may not feel that is the case personally. Its bad business to degrade your most popular player in any way shape or form when your struggling with your business imo
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Again, right on Dirty.
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
“it changes Wrights perception of what he has done here and how he is appreciated”
Bingo
IB_Twaddle
5/23/2011-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Amen. Finally, someone who defies “group think”
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Deifying group thinking does not make you right or brave. There was a time when I too would have defended the Wilpons for stupidity. Not anymore. This is just plain stupid.
It’s fine that you have a different view that’s what makes this place great. Voice it and back it up.
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
What you say is true. But what he says can have a negative impact on the players and the team.
No one gives a rat’s ass what we have to say. Even my wife and family couldn’t care less what I have to say.
Hopefully the leadership of this team is strong enough to try to show up the boss. But I think a common tendency is for people to lose interest in working for someone who does not support them. It was a shitty thing to say.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
‘But I think a common tendency is for people to lose interest in working for someone who does not support them. It was a shitty thing to say.’
Agree 100%, at least in my experience. Can’t imagine it’s much different just b/c you happen to be a ball player.
The difference here is most times, you never hear from an owner. There are very few families that have a controlling interest in a ML team, let alone own one outright. Most times, the interviews and comments go as far as the GM.
saltygary
5/23/2011-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
At this point I feel the negativity has no lasting impact since they have been mentally at rock-bottom for so long. This is probably the fist year out of the last 3 where it seems the players are showing interest in really playing. So probably the statements would have been more appropriate in prior seasons.
If they do lose interest after this then they didn’t have much at all. Let them walk.
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Fred can’t be a fan and can’t act or speak like a fan.
stickguy
5/23/2011-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Real, Reyes and Wright aren’t in the same situation. Of course Jose can just walk this year. His option.
But DW is under team control until after teh 2013 season. And a lot can change by then. He could have gone all Castillo on us. The team could be in full, Pirates style, rebuild mode and not need him. Or they could be celebrating a WS win. Who the hell knows at this point, that far down the road?
Hell, there could be completely new ownership in place long before then, and any dumbass comments made by Fred will be long since irrelevant.
The team is going to pretty much ignore this anyway. And future FAs will, as always, follow the Benjamins.
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
The team is going to ignore this? No way. How will they be able to ignore it? It will be asked by every reporter for the rest of the season.
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
They are already ignoring ownership/madoff. And at the beginning of the year, many people seemed to think that was impossible.
most likely, the press will hammer on Freds comments, they will get a lot of bland, ignoring this anwers, Fred will apologize, sandy will reach out to smooth the waters (privately throwing Fred under the bus) and everyone will move on. In a few days, it fades into the background.
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
As the great Wanny said: ‘But I think a common tendency is for people to lose interest in working for someone who does not support them. It was a shitty thing to say.’
If you are Wright, why rush yourself to get back to a team where the owner has thrown you under a bus?
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
who knows. Probably because he wants to play, and sitting out longer than he needs to is not in his best interest?
I don’t expect him to rush back anyway, and he should sit longer to make sure he is 100%
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
I just think this has a lot more impact than just words.
kingman 26
5/23/2011-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Look at it this way—I have yet to read this, but will ASAP.
Toobin tells Fred he’s going to write a serious piece about the team for a major mag; Fred spends hours with him, and invites Toobin into his personal suite to watch a game. Toobin uses his best charm—which he oozes; you don’t get to be as prominent and successful as he is in his field without it—and they hang out, share stories of similar backgrounds and ideas about economics, politics, and religion, and Fred feels they are pals.
Then in the course of hours (maybe over several drinks) Fred says a handful of completely moronic, asinine things which he should have his head examined for saying.
Is Fred nuts to have said these things to Toobin?
ABSOLUTELY.
Is Toobin a revolting, parasitic snake for operating this way, in a calculated fashion to gain Fred’s confidence and then to cause as much pain to Fred as possible?
I say yes.
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I still disagree about the author doing anything wrong here. In fact I would not be surprised at all to find out that Fred knew what he said would be reported and miscalculated fan reaction again. Most likely he thought that fans would respect him more because he feels as “they” do.
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
I can’t read the whole piece now, but I thought it was a profile on Fred. Not the Mets. So visiting with him in his box was just a part of the background to it.
of course nothing else will be noticed out of a 12 page feature other then his dumb ass comments about the Mets!
wannybackstra
5/23/2011-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Of course you’re just assuming any of this took place.
In any event, it’s not parasitic for a reporter or anyone else to bond with a colleague or subject. He can’t make Fred say anything stupid. Only Fred can prevent forest fires.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
I’m wondering what kind of piece Toobin said he was writing to get Fred to agree to invite him to his suite to watch a ball game.
Is that common practice among owners – having a reporter watch a game with you?
After reading the full article, I have to believe it was presented to Wilpon as an opportunity to tell his side of the story in the Madoff scandal – especially as much of it was a background on how they met, how he started investing, and the ensuing years afterwards. As we’ve been reading, the number one concern of Fred’s aside from the money is the hit to his reputation.
The ironic part is a few off the cuff comments on current players is the only part of that story that will be read and/or focused on.
As Wanny implied, Wilpon should have known better. Stick to the script, Fred.
If you wanted to yell out something like ‘oh shit, that sucks’ when the play or game ended, fine. But specific comments about current players? How could he NOT know or realize anything he said might wind up in that article and these type comments would take the focus off the message he probably thought the article was being written about????
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
I still wonder if he did not know they would be reported and was ignorant enough to think it would make fans realize that he thought like they did and was frustrated too. Bad Bad idea.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Agreed but then again, thats his job. Its like comparing that reporter to scott boras…sure people think he is scum for at times manipulating teams to spend a big chump of change for his clients but that is his job. Its not his problem if the team is stupid enough to shell out that money for his client just as its not the reporters problem that fred offered those statements up. Its his job to make a big headline and he cashed in…thats his job, cant hate on him for that. Fred should know better, especially being in the NY media this long and firing someone partly because of him having a media bombshell(omar vs rubin). I have 0 sympathy for fred and frankly dont blame this reporter at all. Fred has been around long enough to know how to handle reporters and media.
kingman 26
5/23/2011-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
I don’t have sympathy for Fred; I just think Toobin is unquestionably a piece of trash out for himself and himself only.
Where does it “being his job” no longer suffice as an excuse?
It “being someone’s job” doesn’t always make it right.
Boras is one of the top figures in stratifying the economics of baseball and making a whole group of teams no longer relevant.
Sure it is his job, but he is still terrible for the game of baseball, its fans, and its future.
And plenty of players clearly agree, or he would represent everyone and he never would have been fired by multiple players.
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Toobin did not do anything wrong. The NY asked Fred if he wanted to be featured in a profile. Fred agreed 9for whatever reason). Toobin spent a lot of time with him, and asked a bunch of questions on all kinds of topics (much beyond the Mets). And fred answered them. And toobin wrote a broadly encompassing article about Fred and what makes him tick. And this rightly included his thoughts on the state of the team.
Fred had full ability to not answer any particular question, and should have been smart enough to avoid some of them or answer smarter.
I don’t see Toobin doing any blindsided, setting him up, or other nefarious trickery here.
Fred agreed to talk. Fred said stupid things. They got published. This is on Fred.
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
I feel worse for Sandy. He must want to kill Fred for the Reyes comments, since it certainly makes his job harder!
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Reyes and Beltran comments. Also, how do you sell tickets when you say that your 3 biggest attractions are overrated and your team is shitty?
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
no different than “puffing up” prospects. teams form their own opinions, and don’t really care what the Mets think. Plus they know Fred is not driving the bus, Sandy is.
so with beltran, everyone knows he is going to be traded. And will pay what they think he is worth (and there will be multiple bidders) so I don’t think his Beltran commment changes anything.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Was thinking the same thing myself: put Sandy in a difficult situation.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
While very short and sweet , I believe this speaks volumes:
David Wrights response to Wilpons comments:
“Fred is a good man and is obviously going through some difficult times. There is nothing more productive that I can say at this time.”
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Translation? Wright probably has more media savy at this point than Fred does.
I’m sure privately he’s thinking what the rest of us are: ‘WTF Fred?’
kingman 26
5/23/2011-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
That’s because Wright is the polar opposite of a man like Toobin; Wright understands humanity and frustration, and context. Toobin is where he is largely due to simply being incredibly slimy and disingenuous.
And don’t forget, Wright has probably spent plenty of time with Fred regarding offseason stuff, personal appearances, and the huge amount of charity work they both do.
I wonder how much charity work Toobin does?
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Knog, remember that Toobin wrote a 12 page feature on Fred. Not a dirt piece on the Mets. And within that broader context, Fred made comments about the team, that were included in the article (really as background to the broader question of who is Fred and what is going on with him).
Of course, the BB focused media/blogs/etc. all picked out the shocking quotes, since that is all they/we care about.
But don’t make Toobin out in this case to be a muck raker just looking for shocking tidbits to tweet to get digs in at the Mets, and get the fans worked up.
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Come on Kingman. How can Toobin be to blame in any of this. That’s like killing someone and saying the devil made me do it. Fred is the ONLY one to blame here.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
You can only blame Toobin in the sense that he’s a reporter and one who probably knows enough to use any direct quote he gets for more exposure to his piece.
As Wanny said above though, Fred should have known better.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
Its Toobin’s job to report these things, as sleezy as you want to put it and I dont blame you for thinking so, its his job. Fred should not have put himself in a position to say something like that, it should never have gotten there.
metsfan4decades
5/23/2011-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Or this:
Reached in Chicago, Terry Collins says he has no comment on any of this New Yorker stuff.
***********
Let’s hope Terry just keeps saying something like ‘no comment, next question’.
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Yup, this is why you can’t trade Wright. However, “nothing more productive that I can say at this time” speaks volumes to me.
kistics
5/23/2011-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Fred spoke the truth?
Do we agree that Beltran was only playing 65-75% of his full capability? I disagree. And if Fred thought that Beltran was going to hit 1.5 OPS all his career, he must be on drugs.
Reyes on not getting Crawford money. Really? Is this the truth? Do we know for certain that he will not get that money? Everything went wrong with him? What does that even mean?
Wright not a super star. This maybe the truth, but you’re talking about your franchise player’s career here.
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
couple of random thoughts on this, as it impacts teams/players.
first, this is not a company where people work for a boss, in the way you usually think of it (it ain’t Dunder Mifflin for example).
Player’s have guaranteed contracts, in in effect work for themselves. Plus, Fred is not their boss. he just owns the company. Terry and Sandy (depending on the aspect) are their “bosses”. so from that standpoint, they can ignore him.
as to getting distracted, they are already ignoring ownership/madoff. And at the beginning of the year, many people seemed to think that was impossible.
most likely, the press will hammer on Freds comments, they will get a lot of bland, ignoring this answers, Fred will apologize, sandy will reach out to smooth the waters (privately throwing Fred under the bus) and everyone will move on. In a few days, it fades into the background.
Look at the comment already released from DW. I don’t think he is devastated by it (I know Glavine would not have been!)
TRS86
5/23/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
I think this is MUCH larger than you think and perhaps is the underlying reason for much of the issues of the last 5 years.
kistics
5/23/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
I don’t see how this won’t impact the players. If you were Pelf, wouldn’t you be pissed off? I’m sure he knows what everyone else is saying about his demeanor on the mound. But to hear it from someone who is supposed to be on your side?
And how can you not get offended if you were Wright? You think you’re the face of this franchise and this is what you hear from the owner?
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t think that this latest silliness from old man Fred is going to cause the team to fall apart, play worse, quit, etc. Will Wright get annoyed or embarrassed? maybe. But even if he does, what impact does it have? will he play harder to prove them wrong? will he say FU and take the rest of the year off? will he feel sorry for himself and not bother to try anymore?
I don’t think it will make that much difference on the field, right now. Guy still play to win, for themselves, all the same reasons.
Hell, maybe it will serve as a motivational tool. The old “screw it, I am going to prove I am a superstar, or worth a giant contract” does happen.
kistics
5/23/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Do you think that Beltran will dive after a fly ball? Or that Reyes will dive to stop the ball going through the IF? Or Beltran will play hurt day games after night games? Do you think Reyes will try to steal bases to win the game or to boost up his stats?
stickguy
5/23/2011-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, if they would have done it yesterday.
partly because it is ingrained in them as players. And in Reyes case, because it will make him more money. Hell, Beltran wants a new contract too.
getting branded as a quitter ain’t helping their negotiating power.
guys play hard on crappy , disfunctional teams all the time.
darknova306
5/23/2011-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
The thing that sucks about this is that it comes on an off day, so all we get to hear about is the story and get no baseball game to distract us. On a positive note, it kind of deflects scrutiny away from yesterday’s debacle.
Funny, though, how just when you think the off field nonsense has faded away and we can just focus on baseball, some new ridiculousness happens and the talk about the Mets once again goes off field. I want this fool to sell the team so very badly.
kistics
5/23/2011-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
That’s what annoys me the most. It’s the fact the team has been playing okay recently (despite what happened yesterday) and that’s all going to be washed away with this crap.
stickguy
5/23/2011-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
no idea what difference it makes to the team, but keep in mind these comments were from a long time back (much earlier in the year), probably about the point in time where they were in a death spiral. Well before they went on the winning stretch, and came back to respectability.
kistics
5/23/2011-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
I think there’s a difference between saying these things out of frustration vs. what he really thinks about these guys.
If Fred comes out not and says Bay sucks, no one is going to have any problems with it. But when you come out and say something like Bay is a fraud and he needs to go back to Pit, then you have a problem. What Fred said is the latter. He didn’t kill the players because they were not performing well, but he questioned their careers and their achievements. You just cannot do that as the owner.
stickguy
5/23/2011-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
they probably have no respect for him as an owner anyway. Especialliy after the recent Madof nonsense. If anything, they probably just ignore him.
so maybe Wright thinks to himself “fred, you doddering old fool, that was a stupid ass thing to say, and you were wrong anyway”. And no longer considers Fred a good guy.
well, so? what will it really mean to the team (the fans, games on the field)? Probably not much.
maybe Wright decides to talk to the press less? Fewer appearances for the team? His choice.
but on the field, I highly doubt he is going to say F it, Fred says I am not a superstar, so I am going to not bother to try, just to prove he is right.
Mr North Jersey
5/23/2011-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Read the article last night all 12 pages. Assuming that Wilpon indeed said the things he did and that none of it is being read in any way out of context. Then this comes down to a man that was way too honest and open with his thoughts. Albeit being wrong in some of them.
As an owner he has to know no good would come from such statements once published and as an owner he should know that unlike fans (something he says he is) that can make such statements him being both fan and owner means he must always speak as an owner 1st and not as a fan.
Fred Wilpon was wrong and stupid.
Not so much for his thoughts but rather for making them public.
I’ve seen some suggest he spoke out of frustration or that he was tricked into saying the things he did. Regardless in the end if he stands by his statements the final outcome is the same. He should of never said them to a reporter.
As far as what he said let me for the record say the following. While I continue to say he was wrong for saying what he did. Much of what he said is rather true.
On Reyes:
“He’s had everything wrong with him. He won’t get it.”
To say “everything” is over the top and a stretch and Wilpon if confronted knows Reyes has given him many great seasons. The rest is pure speculation on if Reyes will or won’t get Crawford money.
On Beltran:
“We had some schmuck in New York who paid him based on that one series. He’s sixty-five to seventy percent of what he was.”
If Wilpon thinks he is a “schmuck” for paying him what he did based on 1 series and feels he didn’t get what he expected then I can’t get bothered by what he thinks of himself.
On the theory that the Mets might be cursed:
Here I think some may be reading into this more than there is. At least based on how I read it. Toobin says he mentioned to Wilpon the theory that the Mets might be cursed and Wilpon responded “You mean” and then did a check swing. I don’t see this as him saying they are but acknowledging he is aware of the theory. Kind of hard to suggest he believes he thinks they are cursed because he knows the rumors that some believe the Mets are cursed since that infamous strike 3 call.
On David Wright:
“Really good kid. A very good player. Not a superstar.”
Here is how I interpret it. “Really good kid. A very good player. Can’t carry a team.” Clearly Wright is a ALL-Star now what is your definition of a superstar I don’t know? But I am a Wright fan and I know as good as Wright is and he is a very good player but he can’t carry a team in my opinion.
On Ike Davis:
“Shitty team—good hitter.”
No matter if it’s true or not as an owner he just is not afforded the privileges fans have and can’t publicly say the team is shitty. No matter how true it is and I know many fans that agree with him that this indeed is a shitty team so i understand it also is a bit hypocritical but as an owner he just can’t say it in my opinion.
On the team:
“We’re snakebitten, baby,”
I looked up the definition of snakebitten and the results I got were “Experiencing a period of misfortune or inability to succeed. Having or experiencing failure or bad luck.” That sounds like The Mets these last 5 years. Had Wipon said “We’re experiencing a period of misfortune or inability to succeed” would that had been better?
In the end I go back to what I said at the start. Fred Wilpon was wrong and stupid. Not so much for his thoughts but rather for making them public.
Does Wilpon making public what he felt privately now means that there are dark days ahead? I don’t know. That seems like a big leap but time will tell.
saltygary
5/23/2011-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Excellent synopsis Mr. North.
stickguy
5/23/2011-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Last comment on this.
Fred said some stupid things early this year, when the team was playing like shit (and frankly, most fans, including ones now all up in arms, at the time had written off the team as being worse than the 1964 crew).
But IMO people are also blowing the impact to the team on the field way the hell out of proportion. Same thing that happened in ST with some of the Madoff stories.
I would like to not have the distractions of these silly foot shooting incidents, but this too will blow over, and the games wil lgo on.
Dirtysanchez
5/23/2011-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Im sure there will not be immediate ramifications to what he said…I think it will in a way manifest itself at the negotiation table. He just made Sandys job way harder than it already is
stickguy
5/23/2011-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
that part I agree with, in regards to Reyes, but much moreso if they plan to trade him.
then again, once he goes on the market, that says the same thing
njstuckintx
5/23/2011-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
I can see it hurting Sandy, but then again it may not. Reyes is a TOP caliber talent. There will be teams bidding against each other, not against this notion that Reyes needs to be traded or else. Sandy needs to be ready to have his slogan gun (or slo-gun) loaded with the phrase “we are prepared to sit and take the picks”.
And it’s not like the Mets couldn’t resign him. It just won’t be at Crawford money. Which is a shame, as someone will offer Crawford money.
is it a travesty if the Mets end up with 11M to spend (assuming that it will be spent) and 2 high draft picks? Not a travesty, but do-able.