According to various business and sports sources, hedge fund manager David Einhorn will be the new minority partner of the Mets, investing at least $200 million.
Einhorn is founder and President of Greenlight Capital.
Einhorn has been a Met fans his entire life, and perhaps most encouraging about his becoming part of ownership is the fact that he apparently actually dressed as Dave Kingman for Halloween as a child.
In addition to his business, Einhorn is noted for his charitable contributions and for his successful participation in the World Series of Poker.
He has used the practice of short-selling to make a significant amount of his fortune, and has been investigated for and accused of market manipulation. Some consider him a reformer who pressures companies to improve their performance while others consider him a predator out to drive down the price of targeted stocks.
Regardless of which is closer to the truth, he is going to inject a serious sum into the team, and as his lifelong fandom and poker affinity appear to show, this is a man with a competitive sporting side to him who loves to win and has been very successful.
Let’s hope this translates into him instantly playing a role in improving this moribund franchise.
Check the usual suspect media outlets for more on this breaking story.
148 comments
stickguy
5/26/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
well, if you are going to get into bed with any of the big players (especially the hedge fund guys) you are going to get dirty. but these days, they are the ones with money.
if you read about where he made the big money (the Lehman shorting), basically he figured out it was shaky, bet the farm shorting it, then went public telling everyone about it helping the stock go down.
at least he is more than just a money guy:
Mr. Einhorn stated, “Having an opportunity to become part of the Mets franchise is exciting beyond my wildest childhood dreams. I spent my first seven years living in New Jersey and rooting for the Mets. In 1975, I even dressed in a homemade jersey as a Met for Halloween. I have been a baseball fan for my entire life and have enjoyed teaching the game as the coach of my daughter’s little league team. I look forward to partnering with the Wilpon and Katz families through the good seasons, the tough seasons and especially the championship se
metsfan4decades
5/26/2011-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
I don’t understand the negativity I’m reading all over concerning this.
To me, this is far preferable than having MLB take over.
They got the infusion of cash they needed to keep going. If it all goes south with Picard, likely he gets first dibs at buying them out so a deal goes down sooner rather than later.
In my mind, this is good news. We shall see……
stickguy
5/26/2011-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I think people consider it awful news because it means Fred and the gang are still in charge.
metsfan4decades
5/26/2011-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
That could be. I guess I was just going down the road that the Wilpons were not selling outright at the moment and if they didn’t get cash fast, MLB might be forced to step in. Hence my mindset of this is better than being under MLB’s control, even for a short term.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
The guy’s history is checkered. Financial success yes, but very disputed/debated as to his methods.
He specializes in getting companies to spend less and be worth less.
So, it is reasonable to think he might be doing this to lower Met spending and make them profitable by spending a LOT less, or that he might be here to try to scoop up the entire team when the Wilpons hit rock bottom.
This man is not a builder or a creator of anything—he has made his money by selling short—selling companies’ stocks and then buying them back at a MUCH lower price after he has done his best to drive the price down.
Does doing this improve things? Debatable.
metsfan4decades
5/26/2011-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
IDK, I’ve done a lot of reading on the man this morning, beyond the short paragraphs reported by some and what’s on his wiki page and I think there’s more to his success than just that short selling. But I’ll reserve judgment until we see how this all shakes out.
I still think it’s preferable right now than the Wilpons declaring bankruptcy and/or MLB taking over. If the Wilpons are going to eventually sell out completely I hope they do not declare bankruptcy first with Sterling Mets.
njstuckintx
5/26/2011-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
If it lowers the beer prices by 50 cents, i’m all for this new owner.
kistics
5/26/2011-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
He’s not selling short on the Mets stock. If anything he’s going to look for his value to increase. What would he gain by having the value of this team go down?
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Right, in this case the value is already down and logic would say he would raise the value and then sell it.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
He might drive the value down further than it is, buy the rest of it, rebuild it, then sell it in 5–10 years for a huge profit.
Things really do happen like this in the business world all the time.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Could I guess, if he thought that would force the Wilpons to sell. Of course if the Wilpons are that stupid then so be it.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think stupid—I think VERY desperate.
Seriously–attendance has gone from 51,000 to 28,000 in 3 years, and a lot of this year’s is counting sold tickets with no people in the seats. And, there is zero Madoff money coming in and no way Fred is getting a cent more from a bank, so he simply had to choose the most palatable option to get some cash right now.
Fred’s a very rich and successful guy, and I am sure part of him is definitely thinking that this inflow of cash will keep him afloat and he will recover—either from the team’s fortunes turning, from getting a very favorable Madoff settlement, from his other businesses recovering as the economy recovers, etc.
I would imagine he is thinking this; that this will bridge the gap until he can recover.
And Einhorn might be thinking this too, or he might be a shark waiting to buy it all when Fred is finally out of dough and forced to sell.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
Yet again, if we know this guys past I am sure Wilpon does to. Thus if he allows him to do it then Wilpon is indeed stupid.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Largely agreed, but I think you might be underestimating the feeling that someone like Wilpon may have that he will eventually come back from all of this, and that this cash is just going to keep him afloat until the tide turns.
But ultimately if Fred winds up selling it all to Einhorn, yeah, Fred won’t look too smart, but I am sure he will think it is mostly because of Madoff and Omar!
stickguy
5/26/2011-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
maybe he just wanted a good parking spot and fancy box, and business cards that say “I be a MLB owner”.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Do you know what selling short means?
As for the Mets, I have no idea what he is doing. In the hypothetical case that he were to use his massive leverage to force payroll and spending down, and attendance and revenue continue to drop, he then might be able to purchase the rest of the team for MUCH lower than it is currently worth from a desperate Fred Wilpon.
This is often how very wealthy people operate.
saltygary
5/26/2011-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
So are you saying the Wilpon articles are his doing?
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
This is actually a hell of a theory!
If he really is happy where he is at financially, he might be doing this in the way Mark Cuban did; I hope this is the case.
He might also just be a rich baseball fan who simply wants a chunk of the team for fun and will be hands-off; definitely possible too.
But, based on his history and how he has made his fortune, it’s not at all unreasonable to question what he really is after here.
Who knows?
But he made his fortune by helping to drive the value of companies down after selling the stocks short.
stickguy
5/26/2011-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
he has a really excited little kid now. That probably played a big part in it.
anything is possible, but I really really doubt he is making some kind of play Like Lauria did with Fla. Besides, he does not have control, so he can’t do all that much.
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
In life I really try to not get too caught up theories maybe that is naive but I don’t like focusing the energy on such things. That being said I don’t feel there is much that he can tamper with to alter the price of the team. The only thing that can be a game changer is if the books are far off then what is reported and it becomes leaked.
The Madoff finale should have no impact on value but his bet is probably on that outcome so he can gobble more up. Down the road the team will probably be valued slightly less due more to team performance and attendance. I think we all can agree that if done right it will take a couple years. So if Madoff settlement happens in a few months which forces Wilpon’s to sell more if not all I am sure he will have a better price in the off-season as opposed to now and that’s why getting his foot in the dorr with a share less than the rumored 49% is important.
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Proof read Gary…
“I think we all can agree that if done right it will take a couple years”
^ Meaning the teams turn around.
kistics
5/26/2011-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a good investment for Einhorn. But I really don’t understand how that is making money selling short.
kistics
5/26/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
and a LOT of people made their fortunes by selling short on the bank stocks as well.
That does not mean that this guy’s pure intentions are to devalue this team only to buy it from the Wilpons and THEN sell it at a higher value.
There’s nothing short selling about the whole process.
kistics
5/26/2011-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Selling short would require him to sell the stock NOW and buy the stock back when the value is lower.
He just BOUGHT the stock in this team. How is that selling short?
And correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the Wilpons still in charge of operations? How in the world would the Wilpons let this guy come in and lower the value of the team AND sell it to this guy afterwards?
You must think the Wilpons and the Mets front office are very stupid.
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Look at my above statement. It’s possible that the bet is on the Wilpon’s failing. So if he has his foot in the door as a partial owner and the Wilpn’s have to sell more the shares will probably be less in the future then now due to attendance.
kistics
5/26/2011-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, but how is that selling short?
Selling short means you sell the shares NOW and buy it back later.
IF you buy 100 shares in GE at $10 per. And later price falls down to $5 per. So you buy 200 shares. That means you BOUGHT 300 shares at $2000. And if the GE share goes up to $20 and you sell all your shares, you made $4000. This process is buying shares for LONG position.
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Yup… Hedge Fund guy buys 25% at 200m then another 25% at 150m then sells in 5 years for 500m.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
despite the overreaction following Wilpon’s comments, it is still set up perfectly for the Mets to cut payroll by 25-30% and still resign Reyes and have enough left to have a similar off-season to last one…
stickguy
5/26/2011-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
true. If they are at 142 now, cutting 25% puts them at about 106.
take 18 off the top, they are really starting at 124 for the current roster (including DL guys).
which means to get to 106, they need to drop another 18mill. Coincidentally, just about what beltran makes.
so if reyes gets 6 more, figure out where that is coming from. And of course, if you have money for anything else!
You might see mid-priced guys moved along (pelf, Pagan) to free up cash.
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Here’s the problem with that, yest they have enough money to re-sign Reyes. They just will have no money for anything else, especially if Krod’s option gets picked up. How then would our pitching be any better? Our offense would stand to get worse with Beltran gone.
kistics
5/26/2011-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
See my comment below.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
if he continues to pitch at this level, the chances K-Rod is here next season is slim to none especially now that K-Rod has said he is willing to waive his option to sign a multi-year deal…
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
So the Mets would have to trade him and Krod would have to agree to a new contract with the acquiring team.
kistics
5/26/2011-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Yes, that would be an ideal situation. But who will be the closer next season? I can’t see Parnell being a closer and the jury is still out on Beato.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
given Sandy’s brief history, Joe Nathan on a 1 year incentive laden deal makes perfect sense…
stickguy
5/26/2011-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
very true. Need to get out of the Omar era mindset that you have to have a big name/expensive guy for a role like this.
there will be plenty of options. Young live arms in the system, one grabbed from elsewhere, a FA set up guy elevated, or an old guy on a 1 year deal.
even if they use a couple during the year, it will not neccesarily be terrible.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Right, plenty of teams go year to year making changes in closer and compete each year.
saltygary
5/26/2011-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Again the question about re-signing Reyes is not purely a financial one. How can the team get the most impact pieces to be relevant again in a couple years. With a depleted farm system and no big players in free agency except for Prince and possibly Pujols, they only way to get talent that will be ready within 2 years is through trades.
It will definitely take 4 years before we see a real talent change in the farm system and we all know the fans can’t wait that long. The team can also increase payroll to 500 million and there is still not a strong enough market to put forth a long term competitive team.
I love Wright and Reyes but I love the blue and orange above all else. In my mind I want Sandy to do whatever it takes to get the job done right no matter how dirty it is.
metsfan4decades
5/26/2011-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
And I think the days of ‘big market’ teams picking up talent in FA are largely over. Teams are locking up young talent longer, say to 30 or early 30s. Teams need to start developing their own good talent to maximize their productive years while still on the team. They’ll always be some deals that will be made but more so probably in trades. And in order to do these trades, need talent on the farm.
And this is the one area that I believe Omar failed to see coming.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
giving his impending FA status, he is not going to net us multiple top prospects.
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Just depends on what we consider top prospects as well as if that team is a team he would be willing to sign an extension with. Regardless his value will be higher than 2 compensation picks. However, assuming the Redsox, Giants, and other top teams are in the market then bidding could get high.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
im assuming the Red Sox, Yankees wont be in the market due to their lack of need at the position and i cant see the Mets letting the Phillies kill the fanbase further by stealing Reyes away.
The only way I see Reyes leaving is if he doesn’t wanna be here and every indication so far, has been this is his 1st choice, even still…
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Why would the Red Sox not be interested? They have practically admitted that Lowrie is not a long-term solution there.
You think they are not licking their chops at a chance at
Reyes, Crawford, Pedroia, Agonz, Youk, Papa, Drew, Ellsbury, Catcher?
Imagine Reyes and Crawford at the top of the order with all of those RBI guys to follow.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Also the more Kingman mentioned it the more I thought about how there is room for Reyes in the Bronx. We thought the DH spot was taken in NY but now it’s wide open. Jeter could move to the OF and split time at DH. Also I could see a situation where he moves to 3B and he and Arod split time at DH. I would imagine that if Ripken could move to 3B so can Jeter.
Their biggest reason for getting in the Reyes race may very well be to keep the Red Sox from getting him.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
If Reyes finishes with 2006–2008 numbers, and if Jeter is willing to move, they will offer Jose the moon.
Leading off ahead of ARod, Tex, Cano, etc.?
Tweaking the Mets when they are down?
Giving Jeter the chance to look like a hero for opening the door for Reyes?
Jose gets to stay in NY?
It could be vile and revolting, but if we don’t sign him, that’s probably where he winds up.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly I think he goes to the Red Sox first. They have Drew, Ortiz and Cameron’s money coming off the books.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Not only that but I think they are in the position to trade for him this season where as I think a Mets-Yankees trade during the season is unlikely. I imagine the Red sox will use that to their advantage by offering a good trade package as well as a lucrative extension just like they did with Agonz.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
I cannot fathom how anyone could say the Yanks and Red Sox won’t be interested and have no need at the position.
They will be 1 and 2 if the Mets don’t re-sign Jose, and there also are the Phils, Angels, and recovering Mariners who are desperate for offense.
This year, if Jose is a FA, there will be an unusually high number of high-spending teams who need a SS and Jose will get a giant bidding war going.
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
The Yanks and Red Sox are ALWAYS interested.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, which is why I laughed at 2 things. One the thought of the Mets trading Reyes and then re-signing him at the end of the year. Yeah right. Two the thought that they could have locked him up cheap before the season started. Jose nor his agent are dummies. This is a once in a lifetime deal. That being said I don’t think he will get Crawford money even still. I expect around 100M or so.
rustyjr
5/26/2011-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
I admit I’m extremely hesitant . I would have preferred the vitamin water guy
kistics
5/26/2011-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Here’s an idea. What do you think about signing KRod to a contract extension similar to what he got 3 years ago 3/36? This would save the Mets about 5.5M next season and have a pretty good closer for next 3 seasons.
I know he’s not the nicest guy. And he’ll keep us on the edge every time, but in his tenure with the Mets, he has not been that bad at all. He’s 29 this season and the Mets will have him until he’s 33, so the age factor is not a big deal here.
The reason for this is because of this. IF KRod’s option vests next season, the Mets are at around $100M. Assuming that the payroll will end up somewhere around $120M, that means they will have no payroll flexibility IF they want to sign Reyes. If KRod’s salary decrease by $5.5M, you have that much flexibility AND bring back Reyes at the same time. And if Reyes doesn’t sign with the Mets, they still have about $25M to sign 1 or 2 very good FAs.
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
It’s possible. I would assume that Krod would want his option bought out (3.5M). Still not sure if Sandy will feel that 12M a year is a good price to pay a closer when cash is at a premium.
kistics
5/26/2011-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Mets don’t have anyone in the farm system that can take over the closer job at this point. Yes, this off-season’s FA list for closers are pretty good. But given how much the relievers are getting this season, KRod at $12M per would be a fair value IMO.
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Fair value for a team that has money to spend. However, for the Mets I could see more along the lines of reclamation and guys like Beato and then investing that money into other areas.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
the Mets wont be signing a type A FA so that throws out the big names but i have faith Sandy will find someone…
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I am not sure if that is 100% the case or not as our pick is likely to be protected. It also depends on what we do with Reyes.
kistics
5/26/2011-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Assuming that KRod would waive his $17.5M option with the extension.
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Right but the Mets would most likely have to pay him his buyout as that was part of the original deal making up for a lower salary in the early years of the contract.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
thats assuming the Mets want to spend 24 mil in 2012 and 2013 on a closer instead of someone like Beato or Mejia…
I expect the Mets to trade K-Rod and sign Joe Nathan on the cheap…
kistics
5/26/2011-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. And it would be ideal to trade K-Rod and sign someone on the cheap/ or have Beato become the closer. BUT IMO the chances of KRod being dealt is very slim and his option vesting is very big.
What I suggest is in case Sandy can’t deal KRod and his option is about to vest, why not try to free up as much cash as possible next season while having KRod as your closer.
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Krod may very well waive his option at a chance to go to the WS. He most likely will make more money by forgoing his option and signing a long-term contract else where instead of chancing another year.
Again say from some team he can get 3/36, would that extra 5M for one year be worth the risk?
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
didnt he say he would that yesterday?
kistics
5/26/2011-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
There’s no question that KRod would waive his option IF he gets a multi-year deal from anybody.
Right now, I can see the Phillies, Brewers, and maybe Cards as only viable team that would trade for KRod and sign him to an extension.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
No way are the Phillies spending 36M on another closer and that is just not something the Cards do. Maybe a team like the Whitesox or well uh… well yeah not much of a market there.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
there is also the possibility of someone’s closer going out for the year in July and needing someone to save their playoff chances…
kistics
5/26/2011-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
That is true, but the same team would sign KRod to a long term deal?
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, most likely not happening. Then Krod would just have to promise to waive the option just to have the chance to get the hell out.
kistics
5/26/2011-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Right. Not much market for a closer. And those teams that are in the race and need a setup man all seem to have a long term closer. So there really isn’t a place that KRod could land.
If that’s the case, there’s a very good chance he’ll remain a Met next season getting $17.5M
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t really mind that he is back at that price. I know of no clause forbidding him to get arbitration after 2012. Thus the Mets would have the option of either trading him during 2012 and saving half that money OR keeping him and taking the picks. Remember that the 3.5M is most likely spent either way.
kistics
5/26/2011-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
you are right about $3.5M. I guess it almost make a moot point since the difference is so little.
saltygary
5/26/2011-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
High priced closers are a luxury for competitive teams and useless for a team trying to turn their fortunes around (I don’t think the pun was intended).
Wouldn’t you want to take that money and invest it in other positions and worry about a real close in a couple of years? Plus most closers are such a dime a dozen, it is very conceivable that one will emerge out of no-where on the farm.
kistics
5/26/2011-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
But if you can free up some money to sign Reyes by extending KRod, wouldn’t you do it?
saltygary
5/26/2011-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
Wa Wa What? How in the world with all the financial news we know about the team did you you come to the conclusion that the Mets will have the resources to resign KROD and Reyes and be able to have the flexibility to partially rebuild the team?
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, this is really a very interesting financial idea here.
Extend KRod, save 5 mil next year while committing an extra 24 mil the following two years, and this helps afford Reyes?
Uh, no.
kistics
5/26/2011-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
KRod’s option will vest next season. The trade market for a closer is very weak which means KRod will remain a Met getting paid $17.5M Which would leave the Mets less flexibility and probably not enough money to sign Reyes.
By extending KRod’s contract, sure you commit more $$ in 2013 and 2014. But you also have enough room to sign Reyes in 2012 as well as having more room to sign more FAs.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
But then you have less money to pay Reyes in 2013. Teams don’t look at their payroll just year to year. They factor in total owed as well. Spending 36 million to save 5M makes no sense.
kistics
5/26/2011-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
But KRod is a reliable closer who has experience and relatively still young. Of next year’s FA class, the only closers that are younger than KRod are Capps and Broxton.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
Sure, we most likely will not “improve” at the position. However, the say 13 million saved will go towards improving at other positions. I fully expect that if the Mets have to pick up their option that is all they will do and will look to trade him from day one.
TRS86
5/26/2011-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Well at least the Mets are sending Fmart back down soon. I wish they had a better option than to have brought him up to start with. However, all the injuries at the MLB and AAA level forced him to lose a few weeks of his season. Good luck and hopefully you are ready to start by July Fmart.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
once the Mets resign Reyes and replace the Mets really have no other holes to fill.
our rotation next season will still be the same just Santana replacing Capuano. The lineup will have Martinez replacing Beltran, Havens replacing our current 2B platoon and hopefully Duda or Kirk replacing Bay.
Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Davis, Duda, Havens, Martinez, Thole
Its not going to be a playoff team and it might be a last place team but its young and promising and thats whats important…
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
It’s assuming a lot. It’s assuming that Johan is healthy, Dickey has rebounded, Niese and Pelfrey are more consistent, Fmart has proved to be an MLB player, Havens is healthy and has proven to be a MLB player….
Sure to keep the team the same as it is right now, there are not many holes to fill…. LOL.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
hey i never said those guys would do well in those roles but the plan is for these guys to be replaced internally. Maybe we see Murphy or Turner start the season at 2B next season or maybe Bay doesn’t get traded but ideally that lineup is what the Mets are looking to do…
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
I suspect some money will be spent on SP. It may be like this year but they will try to improve the depth there. Also they will most likely spend a little on the pen pending what happens with Krod. No they are most likely not going out and getting anything major if they re-sign Reyes.
Hey guys when does Darvish post?
kingman 26
5/26/2011-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
Darvish posts as soon as the Yanks, Sox, and maybe Mariners have their $35 million bids sealed!
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
No seriously, LOL. Honestly I don’t see the M’s or Sox getting involved this time. Could be wrong. M’s have their own King to worry about and Sox might be a little gun shy after Dice K. Yanks, well as we mentioned they are always interested. I could see the Angels, Rangers, Phillies, and any other big market team getting involved.
Dirtysanchez
5/26/2011-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
DIcky, niese and pelf are going to be here no matter if they rebounded or are more consistant. Santana, unless an unforseen setback happens will be here also. That leaves one more spot which will most likely go to Gee or Mejia. Rotation is set
Regardless of whether or not Fmart has proven to be an MLB player, like oleo said, he will be up here if for anything more than money sake(and beltran is gone). Dont know if Havens will be ready in time but Turner/murphy may be the reality. Ike and wright are here. Jose may or may not be and if not im sure ruben will man SS. I really dont see the mets unloading bay so he will be here along with angel and thole.
I think we are more or less seeing the team for the next few years…its just a question of reyes fitting in with it or not.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
I wish I could say honestly what the plan is. Pelfrey could easily be gone either through trade or not picking up the option, Johan may not be ready…
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. I think Sandy would love to trade Bay but the Yankees are the only team that would even be remotely interested at this point.
I still think Gardner for Bay is great move for both sides…
kingman 26
5/26/2011-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
“I still think Gardner for Bay is great move for both sides”
The Yanks are going to take on tens of million in salary for an aging player and less production??
What the HELL are you smoking today???
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I am not getting that trade either. The Mets would have to eat 30M for that trade to work. The Yankees have money but they are not idiots.
Look the Mets are stuck with Bay this year and at least most of next year. They owe him too much to make it even beneficial to try and move him at this point. Best case is that he rebounds to respectable and they look to trade him next year.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
with that tiny stadium, Bay will hit 20+ HR again, maybe even 30. Look whats its doing to Granderson, he’s on pace for 50+ HR!!!!!!
I think Bay would revitalize his career there especially batting 7th in the order being surrounded by all star players. Maybe Gardner is a bit too much but Yankee fans hate him…
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
In order to hit a HR you need to put the bat on the ball and drive the sucker. Bay is not doing that anymore.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
He MIGHT get better there Oleo but no way Yankees are going to pay 45M at the chance that he might get better.
stickguy
5/26/2011-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Mejia won’t be getting a rotation spot next year. He will be starting late and spending the year in the minors rehabbing. With any luck, he can be fighting for a spot for 2013.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah pretty much or possibly taking Krod’s closing spot as they may determine that Warthen is right.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
i’ve always thought of him as the successor to K-Rod but his injury will delay. I still think he will eventually be our closer unless Beato locks that down before then…
kingman 26
5/26/2011-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
“once the Mets resign Reyes and replace the Mets really have no other holes to fill.”
FMart has not even come CLOSE to showing he is an MLB player.
Duda is nothing yet. Promising? He cannot hit MLB pitching at ALL. He’s not even hitting much in AAA and he’s 25.
Havens? He has 75 PA above A ball.
Thole’s barely hitting .200 and seems overmatched defensively.
Pagan? Dickey? Pelf? Niese?
Wow.
TRS86
5/26/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I think you and I both are reading it differently than he is Kingman.
I think we are looking at it as that’s a lot of uncertainties and holes and most likely would not produce a good team.
I think Oleo is looking at it as these guys most likely have a spot on the team and the only “holes” they will seek to fill will be ….
kingman 26
5/26/2011-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, but to me it is still a HUGE stretch to pencil in Fmart, Duda, or Havens.
Seriously—Havens has 75 AA PA—how could anyone even consider him yet?
Every chance FMart has gotten—when he stays healthy for 4 straight weeks–he has looked terrible.
There’s no way the Mets will commit to starting the season with these guys in the lineup, even if it means players like Turner and Pridie or Pagan and Bay hitting .230.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
If he doesn’t get hurt again, I except Havens to be our opening day 2B next season if he has a good camp.
by the time this season is over he will have more MILB AB than Ike Davis did. Maybe he plays the first month or 2 in AAA next season but the only thing standing in his way has been injuries as his bat is truly special at that position.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
We think that based on scouting reports and success in lower levels of our organization that his bat is truly special. Isn’t it a little early to lock him in?
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
yes and no. a 2B who hits 26 HR with 82 BB in less than 600 AB is extremely rare and by all accounts he can handle the position no problem.
obviously its not set in stone but he’s certainly on the fast track so far…
stickguy
5/26/2011-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
I agree about havens. if he hadn’t aggrevated the oblique from his rib poking it last year, he would have been up last year, getting all those late season ABs that went to Tejada.
if he hits this year like he did last year, most likely he will be given every shot at the 2B job.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Oh I am sure he will be given a shot and no I don’t expect them to go out and sign a 2B. I think RF might be the place they look to bring in a veteran at least to compete with the dregs.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
exactly they might all stink it up but maybe a top 5 draft pick is what this team really needs…
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Wouldn’t they get that either way?
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
but at least this way they have an outstanding infield to build around. replacing Reyes with Tejada makes the rebuilding process go from 1-3 years to 3-5
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
What does that have to do with a top 5 pick?
Couldn’t you say that if you traded Reyes and got a top pitching prospect that you would then have Harvey, Familia, Mejia, Niese and __________ to build around with 18M to spend in other areas?
Again, I hope they re-sign Reyes but a case can be made for improving otherwise that does not take any longer than keeping him, assuming the right moves are made.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
sure if the Mets take that money and spend it on an ace or a potential ace like Darvish, you can make the case but looking at the FA in 2012 and 2013 list there are very few players who are better than Reyes and all of which will be older, cost more and will likely be less productive as a Met.
2012 – Albert Pujols (not happening)
2013 – Matt Cain (good luck outbidding NYY and BOS)
2013 – Zach Grienke (mental issues too big of a risk)
2013 – Jered Wever
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
Thing is again you still get the top pitching prospect for Reyes. Thus you could sign a guy like CJ Wilson say for 10-12 a year, spend 6-8 million on the bullpen AND have that top prospect all for trading Reyes.
So while you would be very weak at SS (assuming you did not spend any of the 18M on SS). You would have SP depth of
Johan, Wilson (example), Pelfrey, Niese, Dickey, Gee, Harvey, Familia, prospect obtained, Mejia when healthy.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
well given the weak FA market, he is set to make more than that but even so, while in principle that is a good idea, I can’t see Alderson giving 5 years 70 mil to a 30 y.o. SP that isn’t a household name while letting Reyes walk…
i think its almost a given that health aside, Santana, Pelfrey, Niese, Gee, Dickey will be our rotation going into next season.
TRS86
5/26/2011-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure it takes 5 years at all to get CJ. I still think 3/36 with an option could get it done. I could be completely wrong, we shall see.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Conspiracy!!!!!!:
“Lastly, he ‘held on to being a Mets fan’ for a while after moving to Milwaukee, but eventually he was ‘won over’ by the Brewers. As a kid, he and his friends used to play baseball next to Bud Selig’s house.”
First Bud puts in Sandy now he puts a the kid next door in as an owner!!!!
NO I do not believe this is the case but can’t wait to read about it.
kingman 26
5/26/2011-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
There’s a picture of him dressed as Kingman on Halloween as a kid. He went to Cornell in upstate NY and lives in Westchester, NY I think.
I liked the Mariners for the decade I lived in Seattle, but the Mets never stopped being number one.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
LOL< not talking about him being a Brewers fan as much as I am the fact that he could very well be a friend of Bud just as Sandy was and could have influenced Fred’s decision. Again, to me too many coulds but to others?
kingman 26
5/26/2011-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, I think it is definitely possible that Selig could have had his hand in it.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
So my JFK/Elvis meter thinks that oh along about October Bud went to Fred and said you better clean this up or the end is near. Here is what you need to do, first hire Sandy to clean this mess up, 2nd bring in a partner at 49% named ….., then if this mess does blow up and you have to sell he will get first dibs.
Again, I don’t think this is what happen but I am a history major so…
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
If Kong aint biting you don’t have much of a shot on this one
Look when the Mets are in stretches of shit I will pick up a random team just so I can watch good baseball. The last time was Houston with the killer bee’s. I still like rocking my retro Houston hat but my license plate will never stop reading “NYMETS”.
I’m leaning towards the brew crew I think. I usually go towards and underdog type and I am fans of Prince, Greinke and beer.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think you guys are getting the point. It has nothing to do with the Brewers but everything to do with association with Bud.
saltygary
5/26/2011-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
Selig (speaking with a Darth Vader Voice) : David I am your father.
Einhorn : NOOOOOOOO it can’t be!
Selig : Search your feelings you know it’s true. Join me and together we will rule the MLB.
Einhorn : Shit sounds good to me. Think we can get a lockout so I can do a quickie short sale?
stickguy
5/26/2011-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, a lot of my money goes to Cornell now!
wait, I meant to say my son goes to Cornell…
stickguy
5/26/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
nice to see the discussion back on dismantalling the team, and away from the babblings of a confused old man.
If Fred had a sense of humor, he would show up at a game in his bathrobe this year. Go for the howard Hughes vibe maybe?
stickguy
5/26/2011-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
what were the discussion items again?
K Rod? he is getting the 3.5 mill buyout no matter what. And the mets are paying it. So add that to next years payroll for counting purposes.
beyond that, yes he quite possibly will convert the option (which of course he does not get if he gets the 3.5 buyout instead) into a multi year deal, and it could happen with a trading team.
Also possible is they work out a deal that says he gets the 3.5 but will decline the 2012 contract. That makes him a FA again, at the expense of his 2012 contract (so in other words, he is walking away from a 1 year/14mill deal to get a longer term)
K Rod is tradeable.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Oh I agree he is tradable. He is tradable even if they only pickup his option early and pay the new team the 3.5M. Thus they would get 1.5 years of a top closer for justifiable money. Problem is not many teams need an elite closer.
stickguy
5/26/2011-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Holes for next year: real mentioned a FA for RF. if they get one, it will be a 1 year filler type of vet that could be moved to the bench if needed. Think how the Royals got Frenchy this season. it won’t be a LT bigger money deal.
IMO, they are hoping that one of the AAA guys (kirk or F Mart at this point) has a strong rest of the season, then shows some life in September, so that they are comfortable going into ST looking to sort it out. Like with 2B this year, and they probably grab a rule 5 or MiL signing veteran or 2 for extra depth.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I was thinking they may try and make a move for a vet that can be traded or benched.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe someone like DeJesus?
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
that would make sense. Ideally they want one of their prospects to show up but the Brooklyn born, Rutgers grad certainly fits the bill.
wannybackstra
5/26/2011-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
The idea that this team doesn’t have any holes is laughable. There is not one starting pitcher that inspires any faith. And none of them have long-term commitments.
Ditto for 2B, C and for RF when Beltran is traded. Arguably CF too.
LF is a hole but an occupied hole.
And no one should assume that the new front office values the same players that the old front office drafted or signed, i.e. FMart, Havens (though he would seem to be a Sandy type), etc.
And how in the world are we penciling in guys like FMart and Havens, who are never healthy, for jobs next season?
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I think after reading it as I said above, that he is not implying that they are good or will be good. Only that the Mets will not be looking to fill those spots.
wannybackstra
5/26/2011-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
Why won’t they be? Maybe not with high priced free agents but maybe with players other than who is already there.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
Guessing thoughts are what’s the point of filling in those guys and spending money over what you already have unless that player is a difference maker? Also, if they re-sign Reyes they might not have the money to even bring in any vets in those positions which was Oleo’s original point. How many “holes” would they have if they re-signed Reyes. I see his point, just look at it a different way.
wannybackstra
5/26/2011-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
and the team will have holes at SS and RP soon enough.
wannybackstra
5/26/2011-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
This guy doesn’t look like a minority at all.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
LOL. I bet Martino will be all over this one.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
I know I am usually the one with the crystal ball but what type of contract you think Beltran gets next year?
wannybackstra
5/26/2011-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Too early to tell.
Right now I’d say 1 year guarantee with a vesting option for another.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah I would expect that as well, with Boras maybe even a unique 1 year contract with a vesting option for 2013 and a player/team option for 2014 that could also vest.
That being said how much money though? Berkman 8M. Vlad 10:$5.5M, 11:$9M mutual option ($1M buyout if club declines, no buyout if Guerrero declines). Trying to think of comparables.
wannybackstra
5/26/2011-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
If he makes it through the season he’ll get more money in his guarantee than those guys because he can still play a position well enough.
kistics
5/26/2011-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
I know it feels like he’s an old man, but he’s 34 now. With healthy legs and healthy season under his belt, I think he can get a 2 year deal. But then RF is not really a premium position.
TRS86
5/26/2011-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
Beltran will never have healthy legs though, he’s one slide away from a career. I am not sure any team wants to lock up big money for 2 years hoping he stays healthy. Having Boras of course will most likely help.
TRS86
5/26/2011-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
Dang Oleo, you are intent on giving us the same team for the next few years aren’t you? LOL. Many of us are dreaming of a competitive team soon.
oleosmirf
5/26/2011-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
lol better hope our Great Triumvirate knows how to draft and make good trades…
hazmet
5/26/2011-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
They had a discussion during last nights game that DePodesta has been all over the place scouting. I think the number was he’s gone to see at least 150 players first hand to scout them for the draft. They also said in his travels he was in the same airport 4 times in the same day on his way to scout different players. They are doing their thing and working hard at it. Hopefully we see the hardwork turn into some blue chip players.
metsfan4decades
5/26/2011-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
It just never, ever ends.
RA down and hurt. Took 2 guys to walk him down to the tunnel.
Unbelievable.
metsfan4decades
5/26/2011-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
If I had to guess looking at the replay, I’d say a groin pull.
metsfan4decades
5/26/2011-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
I was wrong.
‘Pain in right heel’.