" The Next to go ? - Hopefully so !!!"
Look I am a very patient Mets fan. But after last night I have just one question to ask.
WHY THE HELL ON GOD’S GREY EARTH IS WILLIE HARRIS STILL A MET !?!?!
When Willie was brought aboard this past off season on a minor league deal, I thought it was a good move. He could be utilized as both a late inning defensive replacement in both the outfield as well as the infield, as well as a pinch hitter off the bench.
Well we saw how he managed to screw up as a defensive replacement ( misjudging balls, lack of hustle), and he has been underwhelming as a pinch hitter. But now with all the rash of injuries this team has suffered, he has been used in the everyday lineup which has further exposed his weaknesses.
After last night’s game in which Harris proved to be more like washed up Mets reliever Willie Harris than say – Willie Mays or even Willie Wilson ( two players he resembled when he stole games from from the Mets as a member of the opposition) . In 97 at bats, Harris is hitting an underwhelming .216 with 1 homer and 8 RBI’s. There is hardly any justification for him staying on this roster.
Sandy Alderson has showed that he has had no qualms in releasing a player that has failed to produce. Lets hope Willie joins that freight train rather soon !!
He was a Met killer when he played against us, and he is a Mets killer with us – as we all know this always seem to be a case when we obtain players who do well against us. See Vince Coleman, Bobby Bonilla, Kevin Bass etc…..
And with that said….. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today includes:
Mets utility man from the ’80′s, Kelvin Chapman, is 55 (1956).
Middle reliever from the ’03-’04 season, Mike Stanton is 44 (1967).
Utility infielder from the ’00 season, Kurt Abbott is 42 (1969) .
Middle reliever from the ’95 season, Reid Cornelius is 41 (1970).
Sadly on this Date in 2001, the Mets family lost an original member, outfielder Gene Woodling.
The New York Mets selected pitcher, Eric Hillman in 16th round of free agent draft on June 2, 1987.
The New York Mets selected catcher, Todd Hundley in second round of free agent draft on June 2, 1987. Oh how much I loved Todd - UNTIL THE MITCHELL REPORT CAME OUT !!!
The New York Mets selected infielder, Chris Donnels in first round (24th pick overall) of free agent draft on June 2, 1987. Chris would be used as a utility infielder for the Mets in the ’91 and ’92 seasons.
The New York Mets selected pitcher, Anthony Young in 38th round of free agent draft on June 2, 1987. Anthony was probably the only pitcher in the history of the Mets the be plagued by bad luck ( other than original Met Roger Craig). At one point he would go on a 16 game losing streak- yet he was far from a bad pitcher.
The New York Mets selected infielder, Tim Bogar in eighth round of free agent draft on June 2, 1987.Tim played four seasons with the Mets ( ’93-’96).
The New York Mets selected pitcher, Pete Schourek in the second round of free agent draft on June 2, 1987. Pete pitched three seasons with the Mets, going 16-24 with a E.R.A of 4.65
The New York Mets selected pitcher, Paul Wilson in first round (first pick overall) of free agent draft on June 2, 1994. Paul, along side Bill Pulsipher and Jason Isringhausen were supposed to be the saviors of the Mets starting rotation in the late ’90′s. We know how that worked out.
The New York Mets selected Terrence Long in first round (20th pick overall) of free agent draft on June 2, 1994.
The New York Mets released reserve outfielder, Gary Thurman on June 2, 1997.
The New York Mets selected pitcher, Pat Strange in second round of free agent draft on June 2, 1998.
The New York Mets selected first baseman, Craig Brazell in fifth round of free agent draft on June 2, 1998.
The New York Mets selected middle reliever, Jaime Cerda in 23rd round of free agent draft on June 2, 1998. He saw playing time as a middle reliever in the ’02 and ’03 seasons.
The New York Mets selected Jason Tyner in first round (21st pick overall) of free agent draft on June 2, 1998. Like most first round draft picks for the Mets, Tyner ended up as a bust ( in 13 games in ’00 he batted .195) He was dealt at the ’00 trade deadline to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for middle reliever, Rick White and reserve outfielder, Bubba Trammell.
The New York Mets selected third baseman Ty Wigginton in 17th round of free agent draft on June 2, 1998.Ty is still one of the more popular Mets from the horrible Mets teams of the previous decade.
The New York Mets selected outfield prospect, Prentice Redman in 10th round of free agent draft on June 2, 1999. He would have a brief cup of coffee with the team in ’03 before bolting as a free agent.
The New York Mets selected catcher/first baseman, Mike Jacobs in 38th round of free agent draft on June 2, 1999. What can I say that hasn’t been said about Dave Kingman revisited ? I guess for starters he wowed the Marlins enough for them to take him as the centerpiece in the deal that brought Carlos Delgado to the Mets. Otherwise we remember him best for Jerry Manuel’s boondoggle of a move , batting him clean up at the start of last season.
The New York Mets selected pitcher, Jeremy Griffiths in third round of free agent draft on June 2, 1999. Griffiths appeared in nine games with the Metsin 2003, going 1-4 with a E.R.A OF 7.02.
The New York Mets selected Angel Pagan in fourth round of free agent draft on June 2, 1999.He is currently our everyday centerfielder,
The New York Mets traded one time pitching phenom, Bill Pulsipher to the Arizona Diamondbacks for “The black Rusty Staub (overweight yet still able to hit the ball), Lenny Harris on June 2, 2000.
The New York Mets released third string catcher, Mike DiFelice on June 2, 2005.
Even Mo Vaughn can play a better third base, outfield and pinch hit better than Willie Harris !!!!
73 comments
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-7:58am at 7:58 am (UTC -4)
Harris has to go. He’s a not so shinning example of everything that’s wrong with this team.
- He’s publicly said he misses the Nats clubhouse and he’d like to be back there.
- He plays like a man who has no vested interest in being a part of this team and his non existent bat aside, his head is not in the game and his lack of effort is costing runs.
The final straw for me though was his post game interview last night. Not once did he personally take responsibility for any of his miscues in that game I just watched. He rambled on and on and without mentioning any names I got the impression he thinks the blame is more on others and none on him. He’s got a ‘there’s me and then there’s them’ attitude, like he’s on loan there and takes no pride and invests nothing emotionally in that uniform he’s wearing.
When he threw the Pirates team under the bus by stating ‘no disrespect to the Pirates team but they’re not much better than us right now’, I thought to myself ‘are you dumb or are you just stupid’???
First, they just beat the pants off your team 2 games in a row and second, do you not realize you have to play one more game with them in this series this afternoon?
I don’t know about you guys, but if some crappy team badmouths your team wouldn’t you come out there this afternoon either fighting mad or amused enough to complete the sweep?
Enough already.
rustyjr
6/2/2011-8:02am at 8:02 am (UTC -4)
Obviously I agree – btw it should have said washed up reliever Willie Blair – not Willie Harris lol
Dirtysanchez
6/2/2011-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Didnt carlos beltran say something along those lines after getting beat by the pirates like 2 years ago
Ive never heard him say that about the nats…If I did and I was sandy, he would be a fan attending a nats game in washington right now
ajgmets
6/2/2011-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
I think I’ve previously stated my case regarding the likes of Harris and Hairston in this forum. The continued use of these “veteran presence” has been nothing more than utter failure time and again. The lack of “responsibility taken by Harris last night is outright demeaning to the fans and the team in general
If management is on course to reduce the team payroll it’s time to let these 2 have their walking papers and just hope some other team is in more desperate straits (hard to fathom…see Luis Castillo) to pick up one or both to suck up some of the guaranteed money due them for the balance of this season.
A commitment to the kids, at least until the returns of Wright and Davis would seem to be a stepping stone on the path of what looks to be the Mets future plan to be seen as a “fiscally responsible” organization.
There are probably a few options out there such as Jose Lopez (though the team will continue to be reluctant to add salary) who could probably bring a bit more stability to the fluctuations of this line up as it’s presented daily by the manager who in my opinion is in way over his head. This was never more apparent than last night when he responded to questions in the post game press conference with answers like, “I don’t know the answers”, “If I knew we’d fix it” and “These are major leaguers who should be able to execute”. While he showed some level of disgust and did get somewhat testy with some of the questions it would seem to me that the organizations talent evaluators need to be re evaluated if these are the best “major leaguers” they can provide for the manager to put on the field on a daily basis.
Enough ..LET’S GO METS!!!
TRS86
6/2/2011-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Harris was just on a minor league contract, who knows if it’s even guaranteed. Either way it’s insignificant to payroll.
Too early to judge if Collins is the man for the job or not.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-8:05am at 8:05 am (UTC -4)
Well my friend, as much as I like the effort of the younger players, as much as I like what I have seen from Gee and Turner, this team is just SO very thin in the majors, AAA, and AA, that there’s just nothing that can be done.
Nothing.
Who takes over from Harris? Or Pridie? Or Parnell–who has SUCKED at every level above A ball?
As much as I want to be optimistic, we are in for more dark times. It is like the Howe era, except we aren’t bringing in Beltran, Pedro and Wagner.
I don’t even know what to think. I looked at the schedule and figured we better beat the Cubs and Pirates before the really brutal weeks start, and we are 2-4.
Collins’ postgame was on the verge of a Jim Mora special. I can totally understand, as he knows damn well that there is no cavalry coming over the hill, no big free agents, no Reyes or Wright in the minors.
This team is better than HOU or MIN or SD, but that’s it. They are simply a very thin, very mediocre 70-something win, 4th place team, and that is what they were last year and in 2009 and that’s what they are for the forseeable future.
Getting rid of Harris might make us feel better, and yeah, his comments about the Nats are sad—the perennial last-place Nats have a better clubhouse than we do??
I don’t even know what to think anymore. Maybe we should offer Jose to the Yanks, Red Sox, Angels and Phils if they get a bidding war going and someone will give us 2-3 real good prospects.
I felt briefly good after the illusory week with the Nats and Astros and getting to .500 but I realize how the Mets area fu**ing drug. The effects of that mirage of a week are well worn off.
They just plain suck.
rustyjr
6/2/2011-8:09am at 8:09 am (UTC -4)
They hardly suck – they are undermanned . We all know if Jose & David were in the lineup that meltdown might never have happened
darknova306
6/2/2011-8:16am at 8:16 am (UTC -4)
Going into that game the bullpen had given up something like 32 runs in 24 IP. That’s absolutely dreadful. That transcends sucking. Jose/David/Ike aren’t going to fix that.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-8:29am at 8:29 am (UTC -4)
Would Jose or David have been pitching in relief?
I know they are undermanned, but they were losing with Ike, Jose, and Wright too.
They have lost to almost every good team they have played the entire year. They won 2 of 3 in FLA to start the year and 2 of 3 in COL after losing all 4 to them in NY.
ATL, PHIL, NYY, SF—-the difference is, now that they are undermanned, they cannot beat the mediocre teams either.
Sorry to say it again, but the schedule now has ATL, @MIL, @PIT, @ATL, LAA, OAK, @TEX, @DET, NYY, @LAD, @SF, PHIL, FLA, STL, @FLA, @CIN, @WASH, FLA, ATL.
That’s the next two months.
Who do we beat 2 of 3? OAK? WASH?
I guess we don’t suck like MIN or SD or HOU, but as Ty Webb said, we’re not….we’re not good. We stink.
kistics
6/2/2011-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you Kingman. This team just doesn’t have enough talent to compete right now. When Wright, Jose, Ike all come back they may win couple more games here and there, but this team is very mediocre.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I wish it weren’t true, and I am here every day saying how wrong I was on Reyes, so I would MUCH rather be wrong, but overall, this team is just a 75 win team.
I wish I could be more optimistic on the future, but when I look at our minor leagues and the Phils/Marlins/Braves, we have a tough road ahead.
kistics
6/2/2011-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Just gotta hope Sandy & co can groom the few prospects well…
rustyjr
6/2/2011-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Let me correct myself – the starting pitching has been better than adequate of late – it’s the defense & relief that has sucked as well as the offense
darknova306
6/2/2011-8:15am at 8:15 am (UTC -4)
There’s not much talent to replace Harris with, not that he’s talented himself, but I just want someone in his spot with a better attitude. That comment about the Pirates is something you don’t say when you still have to go out and play them again the next day. And all the plays where just doesn’t look like he hustling. Get this clown out of here and replace him with someone that WANTS to play for this team.
wannybackstra
6/2/2011-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
just about any one of Josh Satin, Zach Lutz, Lucas Duda or even Luis Hernandez and any other minor leaguer would be fine replacements for willie harris.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-8:44am at 8:44 am (UTC -4)
True, Duda can hit .200 and play bad defense and look as though he wants to be there.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
Well, I hate to say it AGAIN, but that attitude is revolting. I hope he is the only one who has it. It’s like Dickey said weeks ago—we can’t keep saying we are better than this–maybe we aren’t.
And sorry, but last night Pagan–getting picked off and missing the ball in CF? Beltran doing his usual 2011 jog and the ball shorthopping him? Harris at 3B?
The Pirates were running and flying all over the place.
We have not hit bottom yet though. Look at the schedule and you will quickly realize that.
darknova306
6/2/2011-8:41am at 8:41 am (UTC -4)
Oh I’m with you on this getting worse before it gets better. That schedule is gonna be awful. You know the Mets, though: they’ll win a couple of those series just to spark the “are these guys better than we think?” debate.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
Nah, for me, that debate ended last July!!
stickguy
6/2/2011-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
well, most of the time when you get the young, hustling, leave it all on the field types they also aren’t that good (or are inexperienced). So sure, you can have guys that play hard, but if they ain’t got the talent, you still don’t have a very good team.
Can you find them some guys that play hard and have talent? That would be helpful!
Part of the problem is a team always looks bad when you are starting bench guys (who are bench for a reason) and multiple guys out of position. that makes any team look ragged.
It helps immensely having ML quality guys that play every day, and are good at their positions, for a team to get in a groove and play sharp, good quality ball.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
Eh.
We are in year three of sub-.500 4th place ball.
Cannot totally blame it on injuries.
We don’t have enough talented players, sure. But the Harrises of the world don’t help, and sorry, but Beltran hasn’t run hard once this year.
oleosmirf
6/2/2011-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Beltran has permanently damaged knees. He can’t risk hurting it more especially since he’s been pretty productive and playing at an almost all-star caliber level…
As long as he’s hitting like this, i’ll take the lower “effort”
kingman 26
6/2/2011-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
While some of that is true, I have had enough of him. I just pray they can get something of value for him.
And he’s not really playing at all-star level.
Even with the 3 HR game, he’s on pace for 24 HR and 84 RBI.
He is taking it easy and thinking about one thing—his next contract.
TRS86
6/2/2011-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Again that is a statement that you have really no basis on. How do you know how hard Beltran is trying? By looking at him jog? Who the hell knows if how fast he can go or what going all out does to his knees?
Also, take those numbers you just put up with his slash line and see where they rank in the NL among RF?
kingman 26
6/2/2011-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know any more than you do.
I am giving my opinion just as you are.
TRS86
6/2/2011-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
Eh, not quite. My opinion is I have no clue.
oleosmirf
6/2/2011-8:39am at 8:39 am (UTC -4)
well look at the Mets team right now. How many of those are legit MLB starters other than Beltran???
Its hard to win games, when you have no power threat and have minor leaguers up and down the lineup. Sure the bullpen has been terrible lately but they were dominant before then…
kingman 26
6/2/2011-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
Dominant against WASH and HOU.
Whoop-de-damn-doo.
stickguy
6/2/2011-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
last night? Well, pagan probably. Bay is paid like one.
That would be about it.
and while the pen makes the game look bad recently, losing 3-1 or 9-1 still just counts as one loss.
Same with the record. If you don’t make the playoffs, it doesn’t really matter if you win 72 or 82. You still play 162, and start over next year!
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
Actually, if you don’t make the playoffs your W/L record does count towards next year’s draft.
Kind of like Keno….if you’re not going to match enough numbers on your ticket to win any money, might as well root for having no numbers b/c then you win a boat load of money.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I agree but there’s a difference between losing a game – as in being out pitched or out hit by your opponent – and just giving the game away.
We’ve been watching too many games lately where we have the lead and we turn right around and hand it back to them b/c someone isn’t hustling, someone isn’t paying attention, someone is making mental mistakes, etc. etc.
It just seems to me once the pitcher puts a couple of guys on it all falls apart – and fast. Pelfrey’s Yankee stadium start comes to mind. Last night was another example.
Playing a crisp game that you lose b/c you just flat out don’t have the talent is one thing. That is not what I’m watching lately.
oleosmirf
6/2/2011-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
agreed. If the Mets SP continues to pitch this well, when Ike and David return, we will be a better team.
Playoffs is a pipe dream but no reason why this team can’t win 80 games at full strength…
kistics
6/2/2011-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I really wonder what it is that causes all the mental mistakes. I realize the talent is not there to be competitive, but does that equal to mental errors? And also it’s not just 1 error and they recover quickly. Once one guy on the field has a brain fart, it becomes contagious. It’s mistake after mistake. Mental error after mental error. Is it because Tejada wants to make spectacular plays to cover the mental errors of Murphy? Or is it because they don’t care? Or is it just simply they are not smart enough?
How much of this blame needs to go to the coaching staff? Are they not teaching the right philosophy?
And once this team gives up a big inning like that, the offense simply cannot climb back out. Do they simply give up? Or are they being overly aggressive?
How can this crap continue year after year even though this is a different team? It’s like the players that wear the Mets uniform all of sudden become dumb.
oleosmirf
6/2/2011-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
the thing is if Wright and Davis were in the field, i doubt we’d be having these issues since both are much better defensively than the guys we have now…
kistics
6/2/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I agree. But even when those guys were on the field, there were constant errors and mental lapses both defensively and offensively. Last night wasn’t the only game that the Mets had brain farts over and over. It has got to be more than just the talents on the field. It must be the culture of this organization.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Right now I think it is simply that almost no one is a frontline MLB starter playing in their position.
Seriously–
—Paulino is a platoon catcher who should play a couple games a week against lefties.
—Murphy? Not sure what he is defensively and neither is he.
—Harris is a terrible bench player with very little 3B experience.
—Beltran’s a gimpy CF.
—Pagan will always be an overvalued bonehead.
“How can this crap continue year after year even though this is a different team?”
This really is just the most horrifying aspect of it all.
Willie Harris should have been cut the day he sung the praises of the last place Nats’ cameraderie. I mean, could you even conceivably state more clearly how little you care about winning and being any good? Uh, no, you could not.
Does anyone think the other players don’t see Beltran jogging every game?
Yes, Bay might be a good man, but he has 3 XBH in 31 games and is making 16 million, and still in the middle of the order. How good for morale can this be?
Seriously–we can commiserate and pontificate, but the talent is not there. It’s just not even debatable.
Frankly, I think, overall, that Terry has done a good job with the incredibly minimal talent he has.
If Jerry was manager, we would probably have 3-4 less wins and be in last still.
But Harris, Beltran, and Bay are HUGE anchors on this team psychologically I think.
stickguy
6/2/2011-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
It is the same (relatively) team but with new leaders. they just couldn’t do much in year 1, inheriting too many contracts and not having much money or flexibility to do anything significant.
should be a lot more action (significant, structural rebuilding) this off season to address the issues.
I have no clue about your last point, but I got the impression that bay and beltran were well liked and respected on the team. Even though bay is useless now. Players probably have a lot or respect for beltran for dealing with his knee issues and playing at all.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
I am sure everyone hugely respects how Beltran timed his surgery in a way that he sacrificed 2010.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
I still don’t blame Beltran for his decision there.
If the Mets had handled his injury right to begin with in 2009, instead of largely ignoring the seriousness of it and trying to make him play through it, maybe he could have had that surgery the year before and not ‘sacrificed’ the 2010 season.
IMO, that’s all on Omar.
‘Sometimes we have to weight the advice of the doctors against putting our better players on the DL’.
rustyjr
6/2/2011-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Hey I was theone who took heat for suggesting that Pagan should be traded
stickguy
6/2/2011-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
I was right there with you buddy. I considered him a great 4th OF (much to the chagrin of TRS), and said that if they could get a strong return for him (as a starting CF) to do it.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
You were right.
kistics
6/2/2011-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
IMO this goes back way further than just the players on the field. I think the culture of this organization has to change. Ever since the ’06 season, this team chokes in big moments, continuously make mistakes, can’t get up once they fall and always has idiotic issues off the field. These craps have been going on for 5 years!!
Is it simply Omar and Jerry’s crap left behind? Do we still blame them? Or is it something or someone else? Is it the core of this team? Is it the Wilpons?
I think these questions need to be answered before turning this franchise around. It’s not a quick fix by adding couple pieces here and there. I think it has to be a complete culture change.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I wish I knew.
This isn’t remotely the same team from the ’06 season so it’s not the players per say. We’ve turned over the roster since that year and ’07 a good 90%. Yet the same issues continue.
I’ve got nothing right now.
However, it’s evident to me as long as it took to fall from ’06 to where we are today, it might take almost as much time to climb back up.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
I think that all of this adds up to the continued culture of just unavoidable mediocrity:
—Bay’s horrific useless offense
—Beltran’s jogging around
—Thole/Murph/Pelf/Niese just not being as good as we’d like
—mediocre bench/platoon players like Harris and Paulino playing too much
—terrible minor leaguers like Duda and Evans and Parnell
—and just plain terrible players like Byrdak/Misch/Boyer
Yes, we are not the Astros or Padres, but where’s our payroll? We DO have SOME decent players.
I don’t know; I go back and forth, but again I lean towards thinking anyone and everyone should go, get prospects maybe even for Reyes and/or Wright, and be VERY patient.
Again, in 2005 we had young Wright and Reyes and the resources to bring in Pedro/Beltran/Wagner/Delgado.
Even if we keep Reyes/Wright/KRod and Ike continues to develop, how are we filling out the 2012 team to compete with PHIL/FLA/ATL?
I am sorry, but right now it seems very hopeless.
TRS86
6/2/2011-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Those resources are not as far away as you think. 2013 will be Johan’s last year, Bay’s last year and those are the only 2 players we have under contract that year. Obviously I expect Wright’s option picked up but who knows if Johan or Bay will be here. By then their contracts are manageable and tradeable even. So there is plenty of money.
That’s another reason I think that all the talk about not being able to afford Reyes is faulty. Yeah next year the payroll is loaded with some dead weight, but that decreases significantly.
There does seem to be some promise with some of the young guys and I fully expect Sandy to bring in some talent at the deadline for guys like Beltran.
So while I think there is still a SHOT at competing next year, with some shrewd moves, I think 2013 might be more likely.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Well, that all sounds good to me.
I really do think we may re-sign Reyes.
And hey, in 2013, we might be ready when the Phils finally get old!
As long as Jose is not playing SS for them….
TRS86
6/2/2011-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Honestly did anyone expect Sandy to come in and turn it around completely in 1 year or less? Still not giving up on being competitive next year but I don’t think this was a one year process.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
No, no, no; not where my pessimism comes from.
I did not expect Sandy to turn it around instantly. That would be unfair and unrealistic.
My negativity comes from the fact that I did not expect Bay to be significantly worse than 2010, I did not expect this much regression from Dickey, I did not expect Thole to suck this much, I did not expect Murph to continue to be a mediocre singles hitter, I was hoping for some sign from either FMart or Duda that they were MLB players, I was hoping Parnell would not again totally stink, I was hoping Pelf would be what he was last year, I was hoping for improvement from Niese….
And I was not at all expecting the Marlins’ new young crew to be this good this fast. And WITH Hanley having by far his worst year, Uggla gone, 2/5 of the rotation stinky, etc.
Munch’s The Scream pretty much sums up where I am right now with this team and the near future.
Hell, even Ceetar’s gone.
TRS86
6/2/2011-1:47pm at 1:47 pm (UTC -4)
Some of those things it too early or were never gonna happens.
Example, Dickey has not regressed as much as you think. He has pitched 6 or more innings 8/11 games and 5 quality starts along with an 8 inning 4 run performance. He has only had 2 true stinker games that are really inflating his ERA. 5 innings 6 runs and 6 innings 6 runs. Take away those 2 games and he has an ERA below 3.50. What many of us forget is that Dickey did not come up last year until the end of May and had time for the weather to get better and to get a feel for the knuckle-ball. Perhaps that is why in his last 3 starts his ERA is 2.20. Lets hope the injury does not slow him down.
Thole, hard to say. Early his offense and defense was terrible. Keith seemed to think that when you struggle offensively you are subject to defensive let downs as well. He’s looked a little better the last few games. The good thing about catcher though is that all over baseball in general the position is down.
Murphy? Who the hell knows what changing positions daily does to a kids psyche? However, after stinking for a significant portion of the season his OPS+ is still at 114 which if he was playing 2B would be more than fine. He has certainly turned it on the last 2 weeks with an OPS over 1.000. Obviously that will not continue but I would expect him to still be around a .275 guy with a high .700s OPS.
Duda and Fmart? Neither of them have played enough in the MLB to know what we have. Both have shown signs in the minors but have had injuries as well.
Pelfrey, maybe he is what he was last year. Inconsistent.
In May: 5 starts 3.09 ERA, 1.057 WHIP. Since Aprill 22nd 7 starts 3.30 ERA .233 .289 .398 .687 slash line. Out of those 7 starts 5 quality starts.
Same with Niese, you have seen improvement… at times. His ERA is already lower than last year, while only slightly. His ERA the last 8 starts is at 2.90. He has also had very well pitched games against Florida, Philly twice, and Arizona.
The Marlins? Perfect example of why the mold of stink badly, trade all your prospects get a bunch of pics from everyone else is not working. All it does is force a team to Celtic it in hopes of getting better picks. It offers no incentive for these teams to keep their best players. Yeah they have a lot of nice young stars for sure. I have no idea how many of them they will get to keep. Hanley? Now there is a guy that fits your description of Jose and Beltran.
Again, we are terrible but I am not sure the end of the tunnel is bricked up.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
For those of you who didn’t get to watch TC’s rant on the post game last night, here’s a link:
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/metsblog/video_collins_erupts_after_latest_DHUMQqkAX8u3xnM5l2FMgL
Reading the transcript, or even listening to the audio Jerz provided doesn’t do it justice. Seeing the frustration, the barely holding back and the hand gestures shows you just how at the end of his rope Terry really is.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
He considered giving Carlos Beltran last night off. However, Beltran said he needed to be in there. Beltran told him the team can’t afford to give him a day off. Beltran has a ‘great mentality.’
That was TC’s comments.
I just don’t see how anyone can consider Beltran not a team player.
TRS86
6/2/2011-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
He sure does have a great mentality when he’s in a walk year.
Do either of you think he would have timed his surgery as he did if 2010 was the last year on his deal?
Yes, he is very talented, very charitable, and clearly a fine person.
But he’s all about the next deal right now.
Say the right things, play every day, jog at all times, and avoid contact at 2B on double plays as if the bag was infected with bubonic plague.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve already stated my opinion on this. I don’t think his ‘walk year’ had anything to do with it.
The Mets selfishly screwed up handling the treatment of that injury to start with in ’09 and everyone knew it, Beltran included. On top of that, when he started feeling pain in Dec of ’09, the Mets STILL didn’t want him to get surgery as they selfishly again just wanted him on the field for Opening Day.
Beltran did what he felt he needed to, to prolong his career. His own FO didn’t have his best interests in mind so it was up to him. I don’t understand how anyone can blame him on this.
He started working out in Oct and felt good. Pain didn’t present itself until Dec. From there, the Mets still didn’t want him to get surgery but rather rehab it and be on the field Opening Day. I’m sure the 4 week delay on surgery was him going back and forth with the Mets on a difference of opinion concerning his knee problem. Beltran got 3 opinions and obviously felt the one doctor who said the surgery might buy him some time and prolong his career was the best one for him.
If the Mets had their way, he would have been on the field for Opening Day, on the DL by mid May with the same problem and possible would have had that surgery even LATER in 2010 than he did.
He wanted to play past the end of this contract even if it wasn’t for the NY Mets. I just don’t see why that mindset is considered so wrong.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Well MF4D, while you know I hugely respect your opinion, the above reads like it could be Scott Boras’ press release on the issue.
metsfan4decades
6/2/2011-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, maybe….
But honestly, it’s the way I see it going down.
All water under the bridge now though. He won’t be here much longer and it will be a new generation of core players, or so I hope.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
I am aware that my opinion on this, on Jason Bay and spring training, and on Jose Reyes’ dancing/antics ALL may actually be off the mark and dumb.
TRS86
6/2/2011-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Completely agree. If the guy was only concerned with his walk year, had surgery so he would miss time then why did he push himself to get back in a lost year of 2009? The METS botched that one. They wanted ticket sales and wanted him in the lineup opening day. It really is unfair at times that we place these guys as non-human. Imagine if your boss would not allow you to have needed surgery that could prolong your career only for selfish reasons. What does he not have the right to be a little selfish as well?
Also, I don’t mind him jogging at all right now as long as that is what it takes to keep him in the lineup. Hell could you imagine how it would look right now with Harris and Hariston manning RF? A Beltran at 75% has always been better than most MLB players.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I have to remind you again that I don’t have a boss and haven’t since early 2001.
But if I did, I am sure I wouldn’t like it.
kingman 26
6/2/2011-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
HAHAHA! 3-0 Pirates already!
3 of 4 at home to PITT??
Wow.
TRS86
6/2/2011-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s a question. If the Mets go on to lose this game, as it looks like they will, they will be 3-7 since Wilpons comments.
Any possible way that could be correlated?
TRS86
6/2/2011-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
Uh oh. Ralph said that Pelfrey is not a sinker ball pitcher, well I guess he is just not a pitcher then
TRS86
6/2/2011-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously though, after pitching so well how does it go so wrong so quickly for Pelfrey?
saltygary
6/2/2011-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
He’s really only had the first half of last year. Then he looked like the pitcher we drafted. Now he looks like the pitcher we’ve had all along. If he keeps this up Met’s are not going to pick up that arb contract next season. Maybe he is just better suited for the pen.
stickguy
6/2/2011-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
pelf in the pen? God no.
they will pick up the option. still not big enough that he couldn’t be traded. punting him to the curb for nothing makes no sense.
saltygary
6/2/2011-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
He made 3.9 in ARB last year. Money no option and that arb goes to 6-8M would you pick that up?
He has no ability to change his approach and doesn’t have many pitches. Maybe the pen is the right spot. Regardless he’s been garbage sence second half last year.
stickguy
6/2/2011-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
I doubt he doubles it if he doesn’t have a pretty good year, but I have been wrong before.
I assume in the 6 range (if, of course, they aren’t looking to extend him LT and buy out next season).
and if he gets 6, if he stays healthy all year he should be easy to trade.
TRS86
6/2/2011-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
Take a look at this though:
In May: 5 starts 3.09 ERA, 1.057 WHIP. Since Aprill 22nd 7 starts 3.30 ERA .233 .289 .398 .687 slash line. Out of those 7 starts 5 quality starts.
stickguy
6/2/2011-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
he is a headcase.
also, no I don’t think it has anything to do with Wilpon’s comments.
you also don’t know if the players knew about that in advance. Pretty sure that the subject gets an advance copy of the article, so in theory, the team should have known what was coming.
saltygary
6/2/2011-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think so. Look at the lineup they have been throwing out, it’s been putrid.
CaseStreet
6/2/2011-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
Man, I hope this team gets its act together soon. Would hate for ownership to give up and start trading players away.
stickguy
6/2/2011-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
I think management already knows what they plan to do. Short of a miracle (going 27-13 say between now and the ASB and vaulting into 1st place in the WC race) playing terrible or mediocre isn’t likely to change anything.
I’m actually looking forward to some trades going down. will liven things up, and good for the rebuilding process, Just depends, of course, on who they are trading (and for what!)