After watching last nights game, there is no doubt in my mind, or anyone else’s for that matter, that Jose Reyes is not only on the verge of having an MVP season but also obtaining gigantic contract from either the Mets or another team.
He absolutely deserves it.
But like the the Peter Parkers Uncle said to Spider Man ” With great power comes great responsibility”
I’ll change the quote to apply to Jose. “with a great contract comes great expectations.”
My question to him and to all the Readers is: Can Jose Reyes shoulder the responsibility of performing for the contract he is about to receive?
Can he deal with the boos and hisses from a crowd who didn’t see him grow up and only expects the raw speed and power from the short stop? Can he deal with a fan base that will expect him to carry the team more than be another part of it?
I’m not trying to deter Reyes from signing with another team. I’m not using fear of the unknown as a motivator to make him stay in Queens.
I just see this young blooming super star about to sign a contract with a team that expects what we are seeing this year to be every year.
Because you as well as I know that it’s not going to be like this every year.
I wonder if he thinks so too.
71 comments
stickguy
6/29/2011-8:09am at 8:09 am (UTC -4)
sometimes the grass isn’t greener. And Jose has to know it. Players talk.
I think that is one reason guys like to get their over inflated contracts from the yankees. You can get a ton of money, and still be perceived as a role player!
But, if he goes someplace to be like Jayson werth (the big guy to lead them out of the wilderness), that might not go all that well.
But, it is up to him to decide what is most important. It might be money, but that has never really been the vibe jose and his team has given off during this year. The comfort factor actually might come into play.
So, he might prefer to just “stay home”. He could do what Cliff Lee did. Work with the team on a creative contract, and take a little less (mostly in years) to go where you really want to be.
regardless of where he goes, he is still going to get a boatload of money. Just remains to be seen how big the boat is!
Ceetar
6/29/2011-8:16am at 8:16 am (UTC -4)
Cliff Lee is absolutely going to hold up the Phillies at the end of the contract (hopefully he’s just not worth it and can’t, but..) By signing a shorter one he’s not going to be as old, and will get a longer, and higher paying, contract than he would’ve had he signed the slightly less money Yankee contract. That next one will likely be a killer.
stickguy
6/29/2011-8:34am at 8:34 am (UTC -4)
Lee signed at 32. Odds are, that is his last contract (or at least his last big one or multi years). Even on the shorter deal, he will still be 37, so who knows if he will still be dealing by then.
IIRC there are some (at least 1) big option years on the deal too, so if he is still an ace, they can just make it a longer deal.
Ceetar
6/29/2011-8:18am at 8:18 am (UTC -4)
Reyes will sign. He’s going to be a revered NY Met for 60 years. He’ll show up at Citi Field in 2040 and give David Wright a fancy handshake when they take the field for some kind of old timers game.
saltygary
6/29/2011-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
Reyes wanting to sign and the teams ability to sign them are 2 different things. I feel deep down Reyes wants to stay. NY’s DR population, and the energy that the fanbase brings cannot be replicated in other areas of the country. He also probably doesn’t want to move his family. BUT can the Wilpon’s pull it of and be able to address other areas of the team? We will see.
stickguy
6/29/2011-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
I’m not sure that the “other areas of the team” arguement is that relevant (I know TRS does however!). Unless they are getting a couple of absolute can’t miss studs back, will the team be that much different than it is now, with the prospects we have coming along?
and assuming Ike does come back and can still play, there are not that many holes to fill that aren’t more in the depth area. More accurately, not that will be filled by spending the money the save not signing Reyes!
They are paying Johan a ton of money. so if he isn’t back by next year, they are behind the 8 ball already. Sign Reyes, and 1B, SS, 3B and LF (sigh…) are filled. If johan comes back, most of the rotation too. 2B will continue to be filled by internal young guys. C? My guess, kind of what they are doing now.
So, that leave CF, RF, and closer (assuming Frnakie is gone) as the true holes to fill. Closer likely is not going to be expensive no matter what. And the rest of the pen will be the current model (aka cheap).
So, we narrowed down the place to spend the money to CF, RF and a stud SP. And since there seems to be a lack of stud SP available, i don’t expect that.
Will they spend big money (Go big money!) on a CF or RF? I just don’t see it. Prospects and value signings (or a trade for a cheaper guy) to tide over waiting for someone to really develop in the system.
The team is already going to take a big hit losing Beltran. Lose reyes too, and I don’t see them recovering offensively. And the Reyes money saved will be getting pocketed, not spent.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2011-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Have to agree for the most part with this.
Losing Beltran, Reyes, KRod and maybe whoever else Sandy decides to trade will almost certainly signify rebuilding – at least in my mind. We’ve got some nice talent down on the farm but for the most part, too far down to be ready by next year.
This next month will be so telling.
stickguy
6/29/2011-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
yup. it is going to be IMO a retooling process, not rebuilding.
and in effect we are seeing some retooling this year, and the power of good replacement players. So project that to next year. Will the core be strong enough to build around with cost effective (prospects, young guys, role playing support guys) players, and still compete while building the “dynasty of the future”?
Wright, Davis, bay (can’t beleive I have to keep typing that), neise, dickey, pelf(?), Johan (hope!), pagan is a pretty good start (and 1/3 of a full team).
Now, add reyes to that, and you got 9 core guys that can certainly lead a more than respectable team. Add a 2B of the day and a couple of solid pen arms, and you are up to 1/2 of the team already that you can build around.
But, take Reyes out and substitute someone like tejada, and the foundation looks a whole lot shakier.
and as always, the bottom line is, if they don’t have reyes, what will they replace him with (not just at SS, but $ wise and players in the system). Will it give more benefit ST and LT than just keeping jose?
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I know it won’t happen, but the team would have to consider making a run at Prince, move Ike to RF. To make up for the lack of production you have to get a producer back. + that covers your RF needs too.
And I know, if they don’t have the money to sign Reyes, they won’t for Prince either. If they lose Reyes, unless they do something drastic like signing the big guy for 1B, I don’t see them replacing that production any other way.
stickguy
6/29/2011-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
I have said all along, and MF agrees with me, that if they cut Reyes loose, they need to cut some more guys and rebuild for real, and not even worry about faux contention next year (so they won’t actually replace his production right away).
saltygary
6/29/2011-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
If they cut Reyes loose the only other person to cut would be Wright and Bay… Everything else is in arbitration or league minimum. At this point the line between retooling and rebuilding is pretty blurry. If the team was playing crappier, the stage of the team would be clearer.
In the end this argument just goes around in circles until we have a better idea of the financial situation. We should get some signs based on how they handle the trade deadline. If they have the ability to re-sign Reyes and invest in other areas, then they won’t trade Reyes. If they are screwed then they will send him off.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2011-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
And like you stick – I still believe they should have taken the chance and reached out to Reyes end of last season.
Yeah, I get the ‘I want to see him play a bit first’. However, I was willing to take the chance that if healthy, he’d be back to previous form. Turns out this year so far, he’s better.
The negative about Jose was always Sep. Going to be interesting to see what kind of numbers he puts up then.
saltygary
6/29/2011-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
REALLY!?! With the Madoff crap hitting the fan, Reyes not looking like the same player for the last couple of years and all the bloated contracts, you were will to re-sign Reyes? I think most fans were just hoping he could play a straight month…
stickguy
6/29/2011-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
I had no worries about him playing. the leg was fine, and an oblique pull was not exactly career threatening.
Our logic was his value was down a bit, and it made sense to work out something reasonable for both sides. Sure you run the risk of him sucking or getting hurt, but you also eliminated the problem they are facing now.
No, they were not going to give him a WTF were they thinking contract then, but if they approached with something realistic (5 @ 15/16?) maybe he would have been happy to lock in the security, and it was not a particularly risky deal for the mets (and certianly tradeable).
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
It’s the not even engaging him about an extension, like “hey Jose, we like you, what are your thoughts on an extension?”. How hard could that have been?
saltygary
6/29/2011-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Reyes wasn’t open to a extension. Just like the Mets were hesitant so was Reyes’s camp because they felt he was going to come back strong.
And man if the Mets signed Reyes to 5 @ 15/16 last year, people would of burned down the stadium. You don’t give someone that much especially after coming off the last 2 years of pouting, dancing and injuries. Lets remember the position the team was in when getting Alderson in place. There is no way that was even close to a reality.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Good post.
As for stud pitcher, there is Yu Darvish. And that’s about it. And judging how pitchers from the Asian rim have showed their ability and durability, one wonders if that will be money well spent or not.
stickguy
6/29/2011-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
I forgot about him. would be an interesting player to go after, but I would not be surprised in the posting fee (as opposed to the contract) will be the stumbling block there.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Even look at Dice-K. That has turned out to be a lot of money unwisely spent. Yeah, he was good for a while, but not at that cost. I guess you hope you get Darvish and he gives you Ching-Ming type production (and by that I mean only the years that he was decent).
kistics
6/29/2011-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Here’s an interesting idea. And I’m not saying I would agree with this move, but what do you think about the Mets non-tendering or trading Pelf? Pelf is getting $4M this season and should have some value to the team that needs the back of the rotation pitcher (like the Red Sox?)
If you package him with KRod to clear salary room for next season, I think the Mets would have enough money to pay Reyes.
Pagan is another Arb guy that will command $3+M salary, but I think his added value is greater than Pelf’s.
BTW, whatever happened to Bucholz?
saltygary
6/29/2011-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I have no problem with any of those moves. Pagan is easily replaced with anything we have right now at 10% of the cost. The though of having to pay Pelf 10m to retain him sounds ridiculous. And KROD flat out can’t have the option vest.
Bucholz is on the DL with “Right Shoulder Fatigue”.
kistics
6/29/2011-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
$10M for Pelf?
stickguy
6/29/2011-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
pagan I said in the off season to me was a great 4th OF to have. Real got on my case (but Knog was on my side here!). If he is still affordable, I am OK with keeping him, but that really depends on if they have someone else to start in CF (no safe bet that will be true by 2012). so 1 more year? No biggie.
K Rod is really the place I would love to save the money. They can be just as good finding another closer for a year for a whole lot less money.
hell, right now, if you look at the leader board for saves, JJ Putz is in about the top 3 in the NL, with more than Frankie.
stickguy
6/29/2011-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Buch hit the DL with something, but I have not seen his name in ages. Would be nice to get him back strong at some point.
The trade pelf (can’t really see him being a non-tender, he must have some value) came up a couple times in various places. A few supporters, but a lot of “but then who will pitch? also.
problem is, while you save money not paying him, who are you going to get to replace him that will be better and cheaper? Hell, even young if he had stayed on the field all year would have cost as much as Pelf.
and we also come back to the question (TRS’s point usually) of if you have to ditch other talent to afford 1 guy, at what point have you made the overall team worse?
One thing though to me about Jose is he is still young. So you could lock him up and build around him, and still have him in his prime years when the team improves. If he was already 32 and you knew the team needed a couple years to develop, then I would say pass.
kistics
6/29/2011-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Well.. you have Johan to replace Pelf. Maybe not this season, but next season for sure. Okay it might be tough to trade him this season IF they are still in the race. But would it be tough to non-tender him?
I say yes it would be tough to non-tender Pelf. Because with Cap having a pretty decent season, I’m sure he’ll command more than $4M next season (and perhaps multi year contract). So it would be cheaper to keep Pelf than to retain Cap.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Trade the big Poof yesterday! He’s getting expensive and he’s showing at his best he’s a 3. Yes, I know you have to fill his spot in the rotation, but if I have to hear another ‘he’s an innings eater’ comment, i’ll puke. getting 200 semi-quality innings is not something to be giddy about. Someone will value Pelf. Make the move!
stickguy
6/29/2011-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
well, that would probably guarantee he would finally make “the leap”.
saw something in the spyder crawl recently (but did not read) that he is working on a cutter now too?
such a crap shoot guy. Who really knows what the hell you get out of him next year but at this point, I think he is Joe Blanton. without the bad arm.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
How long is one allowed to wait to make the Leap?
and agreed. Crap shoot indeed.
stickguy
6/29/2011-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
this also to me could be a telling sign about the thought process of the new FO.
Sandy could shock us and trade him (making a value judgement). Omar I don’t think ever would have.
saltygary
6/29/2011-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Pelf is really frustrating and I want him gone too, plus his price keeps going up. Just looking at the potential FA starters and there is NOTHING and I really don;t wnat to start getting into our annual “who should we pickup on the scrap heap that has upside”. So from a FO stand point I bet they keep him around for one more year.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
which isn’t the end of the world.
We should see Mejia and Harvey on the horizon. Gee + Niese + Santana + Dickey are in the rotation. So really, even if they traded him and went with Cap (or comparable) as a holder until Harvey or Mejia makes the leap in June, Pelf is not as necessary as we think. then in 2013 it’ll be Gee, Niese, Santana, mejia, Harvey, in no particular order, so I don’t even see Poof in the long term plans anyway.
kistics
6/29/2011-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
The problem is Capuano will probably ask for more than $4M. He’s been healthy over 1.5 season and still can hit low 90s with his FB. So I think keeping Pelf maybe more cost effective solution.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-8:23pm at 8:23 pm (UTC -4)
Hence the “(or comparable)”.
We always have DJ. Uff da.
kistics
6/29/2011-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
I agree. Given what’s out there, it might be more cost efficient to keep Pelf.
IMO, in addition to signing Reyes, they will need to get another good starter like Wilson or Buhrle to be more competitive, but that’s another subject…
Ceetar
6/29/2011-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
he’s not that expensive even still. You’d pay that for his production on the open market, and the Mets need pitching, so it’s not like they have a surplus of guys like that. He mostly keeps you in games, occassionally has a gem, and goes out there and gives you 200 innings. He’s above average. You need more of those guys, not less.
Sure, if you can steal ‘more’ value via trading him, but it’s almost a given you’re going to be searching for roughly what you traded.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Career for Poof.
47 – 47.
5.1 K per 9
3.2 BB per 9
1.428 WHiP
4.37 ERA
How is that above average?
Ceetar
6/29/2011-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Well, common opinion is that he was a little rushed up too early.
Not sayinghe’s way above average or anything, merely that he’s capable of a gem, keeps them in most games, and will likely win more than he loses. Probably can’t say that about what’s available to replace him with any confidence.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
I try to look on the bright side too, but win more than he loses? He is a coin flip at this point. Heads is a gem, tails is a Yip.
saltygary
6/29/2011-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
He’s not expensive now but next year and beyond he will be. He’s just so damn inconsistent, which drives most Mets fans crazy.
kistics
6/29/2011-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
You still think Porcello is better than any current Mets pitchers?
saltygary
6/29/2011-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Yes, yes I do. And I said most, not all. Really the only one right now would be Gee, but at this point who the hell knows what the reality of Gee is.
kistics
6/29/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
So you would rather take Porcello than Niese?
I’m not talking about the potential, but what they are right now.
saltygary
6/29/2011-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Ya know I didn’t realize Niese’s K ratio was that good. After looking deeper, maybe not. Porcello still has a lot of hype from his ’09 season but I would definitely take him over Pelf, Gee and Cap. RA doesn’t count since he’s a knuckler, I like having a knuckler to give the rotation a different feel.
Ceetar
6/29/2011-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Except for the hits, he was pretty good last night.
kistics
6/29/2011-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Hope you are being sarcastic…
Ceetar
6/29/2011-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
He did do pretty good on the Daniel Schlereth scale.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2011-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
‘Sure, if you can steal ‘more’ value via trading him, but it’s almost a given you’re going to be searching for roughly what you traded.’
This.
kingman 26
6/29/2011-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
PELF STAYS!
kistics
6/29/2011-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Where is TRS anyways? Haven’t seen him for couple weeks now..
saltygary
6/29/2011-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Didn’t you hear? I bought him out. The blog will soon be called “The Dirty, Salty Pessimistic Mets Blog of Doom (We believe that everyone is overpaid and playing above their abilities)”
kistics
6/29/2011-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
LMAO!!
metsfan4decades
6/29/2011-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
LOL.
I believe TRS said he was busy with basketball camp for a few weeks but it was soon coming to an end for this summer – then he’d be back regularly.
kistics
6/29/2011-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
He must be itching to get on this site with all the good stuff going on…
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
He’s on a long long journey to bring back some sanity to this site. He went looking for Grave.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2011-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Ah….I miss Grave and his comments and posts.
Hope he’s doing well, wherever he is.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Me too. Me too…
kingman 26
6/29/2011-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Not a peep from him.
Too bad.
kistics
6/29/2011-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
me 4
stickguy
6/29/2011-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
saw something about heyman doing a poll of the imaginary people in his head, as to what Jose will end up getting.
I actually think now that he stays with the mets (creative contracting).
basically what Cliff Lee did last year to get himself back to the Phillies where he wanted to be all along.
some combination of deferrals, backloading, incentives, vesting options, etc. that way they can get jose his money (at least on paper), and it will “look” like the biggest deal, but structured to fit the Mets ST financial constraints.
heck, maybe tie team options for years 6-7 with a player opt out, if he is worried about them not competing (something like after 4 years, he can walk unless the team guarantees year 6, then same thing for year 5 and 7).
Lots of ways to make a deal work on both sides, when the player wants it to.
stickguy
6/29/2011-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
also, keep in mind that while his big year is likely driving up his pending contract offers, there is a flip side.
All the love and adoration (and hopefully, bigger crowds as they chase the WC all season) quite possibly will make him more anxious to stay with the club (if he was starting to feel ambivelant). And this goes right back to my last point, about creative contracting when both parties want a deal done.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
“All the love and adoration (and hopefully, bigger crowds as they chase the WC all season) quite possibly will make him more anxious to stay with the club (if he was starting to feel ambivalent)”
You crack me up.
stickguy
6/29/2011-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
well, he has seemed to be feeding off all the crowd love. the other part, of course, remains to be seen. But, he should remember what that is like in NY, and what it will be again at some point.
kistics
6/29/2011-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
what weighs more? green paper or the love of NY crowd?
oleosmirf
6/29/2011-3:19pm at 3:19 pm (UTC -4)
There is no excuse for not bringing Reyes back which is why I would be absolutely shocked if Reyes goes elsewhere.
So 7 years from now the Mets will have to pay Reyes around 16 mil for what he once was. There is nothing wrong with that.
The Giants won the WS last season with 30.5 mil spent on Barry Zito and Aaron Rowand whom both contributed almost nothing to their championship season.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
Helps when you have a farm system kicking out young pitchers like they do.
And yes, I will be pist as well if they don’t re-sign him.
oleosmirf
6/29/2011-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
true although you don’t need that great a pitching staff to win. I just hate the idea that the Mets should not give him x number of years b/c he might not be worth it for 1 or 2 of those 7 year deals.
If the wheels fall off when he’s 33 then so be it. Having one “bad” contract affects nothing in the long run…
stickguy
6/29/2011-5:09pm at 5:09 pm (UTC -4)
as long as you don’t have 3-4 nasty ones at the same time!
stickguy
6/29/2011-5:08pm at 5:08 pm (UTC -4)
well, hopefully 4+ years down the road when you are worried about Reyes maybe not being worth his salary, the mets farm will be kicking out hot prospects at a rapid pace too!
wannybackstra
6/29/2011-4:21pm at 4:21 pm (UTC -4)
there may be a perfectly reasonable explanation for not bringing him back: they can’t afford it.
you don’t know the answer to that and i don’t. they may not even know it yet either with irving picard looming.
but if they do already know that they can’t afford to get into the bidding war for him then there is no excuse for not trading him now.
njstuckintx
6/29/2011-8:22pm at 8:22 pm (UTC -4)
For some reason I want to quote Public Enemy to this post. I won’t. I’ll go simple. Word.
Kirk_C
6/29/2011-7:02pm at 7:02 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with Stickguy. If it comes to a point where the Mets decide to trade Jose, then why not completely rebuild? If you aren’t going to keep a player like Reyes, then you aren’t that serious about competing in the immediate future.
Also, the Mets cannot trade Reyes for a handful of decent prospects. They can’t make a Johan Santana-like trade. There’s got to be “that guy” in the deal. I’m talking Zach Wheeler, Mike Trout, Shelby Miller. And it just starts with those guys. I’d ask for a ridiculous bounty and if teams pass, then I’d keep Jose and take the draft picks.
I think the Mets should look to deal off KRod and Beltran regardless. But if they’re going to deal Reyes then don’t stop there.