The future looks hazy !
Yes it sucks to be a Mets fan - THERE I SAID IT !!
In the last four days most of the fan base has been put through the ringer with the three most hated word in the Englis language – posturing, conjecture and speculation.
Over the weekend the media inundated us with the usual Mets related “news” . You know- the 2012 payroll will be closer to 100 million dollars, the Mets laid off 10 percent of their non player related workforceand oh yes the front office will entertain offers for David Wright.
HUH !?! EXCUSE ME !!??!! Trade David Wright ?!?!
Yes my friends in this day and age of contracted revenue and a non-existant Wilpon warchest almost any player that has a pulse will be subject to trade rumors. Will David Wright be traded before the first pitch of the ’12 season ? I seriously doubt it. If David is traded, it will either be done in the middle of the ’12 season or sometime during the ’13 season if his trade value is still high.
Next on the agenda is a tweet from Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated. Heyman is reporting that the Mets are expected to tender Angel Pagan a contract. I have stated that I would hope that Sandy Alderson would decide to non-tender Angel instead of allocating 4-5 million dollars on a player who is rated as more of a fourth outfielder, but ESPN’s Adam Rubin reports that if the Mets do re-sign Pagan, they will then try to trade him.
Heyman also tweeted yesterday that Chris Capuano is looking for atleast a two year deal at a higher salary than he made last year (1.5 million plus incentives). I am on record as saying that the Mets would have a tough time re-signing Cappy. He proved to be relativly durable after suffering from shoulder problems over the past few seasons. I doubt he will give the Mets a discount, so I doubt he will be in the Mets rotation next season.
Next up are the reports that the Mets will more than likely try to sign free agents to one year contracts. This should neither surprise us nor should it outrage us because this is the same philosiphy that Alderson implemented last season. The Mets will more than likely sign players that are coming off of injury looking to prove they can still play – see Chris Young. Look this team is in dire financial straits, if you thoughtthis team was going to kick the tires on a C.J Wilson or bid on the services of Yu Darvish then please pass the hash pipe.
Lastly are the reports that the Florida Marlins have contacted Jose Reyes in hopes that he will sign with them. In my opinion it is a foregone conclusion that the bunt base hit that I saw in game 162 last season would be Jose’s last hit as a Met. It speaks volumes about the teams financial status when it seems like they wont have the money to retain one of the best players to ever come from their farm system. I admit that I am torn here. I would love Jose to stay in Flushing, but at the same time I can’t justify a contract longer than four years for him. But the thing that would bother me more is if he did sign with the Marlins – a team that finished worse than us last season because their first round pick is protected, which means the Mets would get the Marlins second round pick as well as a supplemental pick in next seasons draft.
It remains to be seen what moves Alderson and the front office are able ( or allowed ) to make in the coming months. All I know is with roughly 60-70 million dollars already commited to payroll and only about 20-25 million left to spend they better do their due dilligence in trying to field a better produc next season, because if this team punts ’12 early on, well I would expect the belt tightening moves to continue
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today includes:
The longest tenured Mets player of all time, first baseman/ outfielder, Ed Kranepool is 67 (1944). Kranepool played with the Mets from ’62-’79 and still holds the franchise’s all time hit record.
Reserve infielder from the ’05 season, José Offerman is 43 (1968).
Reserve outfielder from the ’99 season, Shane Halter is 42 (1969) .
Beloved Mets second baseman/third baseman, Edgardo Alfonzo is 38 (1973). Edgardo was quite possibly the best hitting second baseman this team ever knew.
The New York Mets traded utility infielder, Bob Johnson to the Cincinnati Reds for outfielder, Art Shamsky on November 8, 1967. It was one of the key moves that helped the Mets to become World Series champs in 1969.
The Mets granted catcher, John Stearns free agency on November 8, 1984. Stearns was one of the most popular Mets during the lean years of the late ’70′s and early ’80′s. He would later be a third base coach for the Mets.
The Los Angeles Dodgers signed right fielder, Darryl Strawberry of the New York Mets as a free agent on November 8, 1990. This was a tough day for the Mets fan base. Darryl was one of the most important faces from those teams from the ’80′s, and losing him sent the team into a tailspin that lasted almost 7 years.
The Anaheim Angels signed utility infielder, David Lamb of the New York Mets as a free agent on November 8, 2000.
The New York Mets released middle reliever, José Parra on November 8, 2004.
The St. Louis Cardinals signed reserve outfielder, Prentice Redman of the New York Mets as a free agent on November 8, 2005.
Mo Vaughn was thinking about becoming a minority investor with the Mets. But after a lot of soul searching ( and also sobering up from the beer fueled binge the night before), he rethought this hair-brained plan !
42 comments
Anonymous
11/8/2011-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Rusty, I figured that this would be the case for the Mets before this offseason officially began. Yet, I knew quite a few fans who were and still are holding out for fantasy signings of players the likes of Pujols and Fielder. I think I’ve heard the let Reyes walk and sign fielder argument 20 times over. That is clearly not happening nor did I think it would. I still believe that the best the Mets can hope for is to A) figure out what Reyes is seeking and make whatever offer they can. B) Either tender or non tender Pagan , personally i prefer them to tender ( hes their best option however sad it may seem) C) addition by subtraction in terms of the bullpen, keep those who pitched even remotely well and pick up low risk options with upside to either compliment or compete with what is already instated. D) Make sure Ike Davis is ready to play. This team is a mess without him.
TRS86
11/8/2011-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Non tendering Angel Pagan makes no sense. You have no one to take his place and the FA market is full of guys who did even worse than Pagan.
Also saying the Mets should nt Pagan forgets the fact that you can tender him a contract with no real danger or commitment. You could eat part of his cash and trade him for a guy you could not get or for a Sanchez like same money type trade. Even if those situations dont work out you can release him before the season IF you have a better alternative and only have to pay him for one month as he does not have a guaranteed contract.
This same scenario applies to Pelfrey. It is about options. Do I hope they upgrade from these two? Sure. However until you find something better why handicap yourself on the Fa or trade market?
rustyjr
11/8/2011-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
I think I have to agree with Rubin who is speculating about a sign & trade with Angel
If Angel is our best choice at everyday center – then he better motivate himself
TRS86
11/8/2011-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
Motivation wasn’t his problem last year. Injury had as much to do with it as anything. Also while sure they may look to trade him look at what is out there. If Pagan is a number 4 Of then ankiel and mclouth are minor league. Hopefully someone in the system steps up but I would be fine with Pagan and then bring in Endy or Torres on the cheap.
TRS86
11/8/2011-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
In the response to my own post… which Pagan are you even getting? The one that was. 429 .300 .318 in May June and August or the one that hit. 159 .194 .269 the rest of the time?
rustyjr
11/8/2011-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
TRS I beg to differ – I did spend some time at Citi last season & saw angel up close – the beat writers aren’t lying to us about his “makeup”
TRS86
11/8/2011-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
What make up? He may look dumb stupid or confused at times but I don’t see it as lazy at all.
TRS86
11/8/2011-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
And even with dumb stupid And confused he is a helluva lot better than. 239 Rick Ankiel or .228 Nate McLouth.
rustyjr
11/8/2011-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
There are options other than those 2 – also don’t forget trade market
Anonymous
11/8/2011-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
How in the world do you know if the problem isn’t laziness and motivation?
Laziness sure could help explain all of the injuries and the unbelievable amount of errors he makes in the field and on the base paths.
Pagan has skills, but aside from precisely half of 2010, he has never been anything more than an above-average 4th outfielder/bench player.
Laziness, motivation, and atrocious work habits could explain this almost entirely.
TRS86
11/8/2011-3:31pm at 3:31 pm (UTC -4)
Who Rusty? Davis DeJesus? Coco Crisp at more money and a multi-year deal? Fact is for one more year Pagan is about as good as they can do. Unless they want to trade prospects for Upton or something.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-3:37pm at 3:37 pm (UTC -4)
O.K., not sure I’m replying to TRS’s last comment but….
I just don’t see any better FA option. Trade, maybe but that probably isn’t happening by 12 Dec.
Maybe we could be in on the Cespedes(?) Cuban super star CF. LOL
rustyjr
11/8/2011-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
There is the trade market – did anyone expect us to get Nady in ’06 ? There are players on the trade market that can be had
TRS86
11/8/2011-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Obviously you can always make assumptions but what I saw was a guy who came in trying to be something he was not and then rebounded only to get injured. Of course you say lazy could be the reason for the injury. If that is the case why the hell would they even consider Reyes?
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
This.
No reason not to give him a contract by 12 Dec. If we find a better option, can always trade him.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
The Mets have to put an awful lot of trust into their young players going into the season and as a fan I really hope they grow into some of our expectations.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
Well Rusty, soon the three most hated words in the English language for the Met fan will be “Reyes signs elsewhere!”
If it is with the Marlins? How horrific would that be?
You said it best my friend, it sucks to be a Met fan right now.
1993 is the only time I have felt worse about this team than I do right now, and once Jose signs elsewhere and we really hit bottom, at least things won’t be able to get worse.
Right?
TRS86
11/8/2011-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly I am just not that upset with this Jose thing. I think whoever signs him is ginning to regret it down the road if he is getting 20 m. A year for 5-6 years. Only reason the Mets would even consider it is because he is a Met. If the Phillies decide Jose is out of their pricerange considering the risk is that wrong? Why is it wrong for the Mets? They won’t be in contention with him next year anyway. Time to move on.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
Eh, I go back and forth, but overall it just shows where this team is right now and where they will be for the forseeable future.
No intelligent person can be optimistic enough to ignore the perfect storm of financial misery that continues to engulf this team—payroll being lowered more, Jose being let go, no FAs to more than a 1-year deal, inability to pay back MLB’s 25 mil loan, and perhaps worst of all, laying off a small number of employees to save less than 1 mil.
I have gone back and forth on Reyes, but the way he played in 2011 after 2 injury-filled years shows that he clearly still has it, and, if anything, he hit better than ever before this year. He’s young, and would be a wonderful piece to have in 2–3 years if and when this team is ready to be competitive again.
As for the Philly comparison, they have a great pitching staff and Howard and other good players; we have very, very little.
Overall, I am going to hate to see Jose go, but the underlying reasons are even more horrifying—regardless of how anyone tries to spin it, it has less than nothing to do with being in contention in 2012 or 2013 and absolutely everything to do with this team’s absolutely awful and continually declining financial state.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you Kong. It sucks.
And at other sites it’s viewed as being a Sandy Apologist, but I think he’s got the ship pointed in the right direction. Let me elaborate, as it’s tough to think the ship is going in the right direction when the payroll will have dropped 50 million over 2 years. But if the hard choice is to plan for the future (a true rebuild) but lowering payroll, stocking up quality chips in the system, Ideally having the payroll flexibility to extend Ike and Niese on the cheap into their Arb years and when the dust has settled the Mets can start to approach Free Agency as a supplement to push the team over the top vs a way to build the team. These are all ideas that do not happen ASAP, and in this age of instant gratification, the fans are flipping out, but it is the sure and steady way to at least be able to run in the race and ideally be in position to possibly win one of these down the line. So, in Sandy I’ll trust…
So, I’m really start to buy into the conspiracy theory that Sandy was pushed on the Wilon’s by Selig. Come in, sort out the non-sense, be the bad guy, then move on after 3 years or so when the ship is pointed in the right direction (or new ownership is in place). I’m hoping for the parenthesis part, myself. And i thought about this the other day… What happens when Selig retires (supposedly in 2012) and the next guy isn’t all buddy/buddy with the Wilpons and wants that 25 million back ASAP? Not saying they will not have paid it back by then, but just saying.
TRS86
11/8/2011-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly I think I agree mostly here. Because of Sandy the Reyes thing does not bother me. I think he is doing what is best for the Mets to get back to competitive. We knew tough decisions would have to be made so now is time to sit back and let him make them. Then just like most gms judge his product in about three years.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-5:51pm at 5:51 pm (UTC -4)
Especially agree with your last paragraph, Tx.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-7:07pm at 7:07 pm (UTC -4)
Well, at what point do we have to see more than the precisely ONE nice chip (and Wheeler does have a load of potential, but how about a first round draft pick who did not play HS ball? How common is that?) in the system?
He’s not really doing much of anything other than lowering payroll and expectations dramatically.
We got zip for KRod, and draft picks for Reyes will be it. We could have had a great prospect or two had we traded Jose in-season.
When the team is in 4th or 5th place mid-season, we’ll see how long Alderson’s honeymoon lasts.
Personally, I think he resigns before the end of 2012.
It’s a no-win situation, with relatively broke owners, and a very difficult division.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
Wilpons need to sell. And there, I said it
This having Sandy tread the fine line of fielding a competitive team while waiting to see of the Wilpons financial mess can be straightened out is getting old.
I can see the mindset of you don’t need to be in Yankee territory to field a good team. But payroll at 100 MIL this year – or possibly lower so there is some money left in the coffers? I’m getting the impression the plan all along was to cut down to bare bones so the Wilpons could hang on. First it was 120 MIL, then 110 MIL, then 100 MIL, now possibly less.
Yeah, it’s not this current FOs fault we have the bulk of the money tied up in a couple of players. But it’s not the Met fans fault either. So if you’ve got to spend an extra 20-30 MIL or so instead of nickel-diming us to death with these one year contracts the next couple of years, then so be it. Only problem is Wilpons can’t afford it. And as Met fans, we’re stuck watching these no more than .500 teams for these next several years b/c they’re crossing their fingers they win their lawsuits, revenues come up, they can hold on to their ‘beloved’ team.
Bah…..as I said, it’s getting old.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-3:53pm at 3:53 pm (UTC -4)
They do. But how would that work with selling the team, when you have SNY as a seperate entity? Just curious.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-5:52pm at 5:52 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I have no idea….
And I now some will say ‘be careful what you wish for’.
But I’m willing to take that chance. What we’re watching now is nothing more than Alderson being brought in to keep the mob at bay while he does everything he can to keep the Wilpons solvent enough as it pertains to Sterling Mets to hold onto the team.
And it’s really starting to suck….
TRS86
11/8/2011-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
Obviously I agree they need to sell. Where I still differ is regardless of owner or financial state Jose at 100m is a bad investment. As I said earlier if the Phillies decide that is not a good price yet they need a ss does that make them broke? As even the media has pointed out the Mets Have enough to sign Reyes but would have no room to do anything else and would have 100m wrapped up in a player that can’t stay healthy.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-4:41pm at 4:41 pm (UTC -4)
Come on man, the Phils have a team loaded with good to great players. We have nothing. We have a horridly declining David Wright and a bunch of kids we HOPE will be good.
The Philly comparison could not be more meaningless.
The Mets CLEARLY are in dire financial straits—how can you deny this obvious, crystal-clear reality?
Who the hell has a player payroll over 100 mil, their own stadium and TV network and all the resulting revenue, and lays off a handful of working people to save less than 1 million? The answer is an organization in DIRE financial condition.
The Mets DO NOT have the money to sign Jose.
TRS86
11/8/2011-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
You are missing the point. The Phillies reference is important because regardless of money or team signing Jose to a 5/100 deal may not be a good business decision and the negatives may outweigh the positives.
As for the money, again sure they have enough to sign him. You could dump Pagan, Pelfrey and keep the pen You have and free up enough to sign Jose. Will that make them competitive?
Obviously money is of a concern. They are losing a ton of money on a failed product yet many want them to invest 100m back into that failed product with no real plans on how to change it. Sign Jose bedamned because he is Jose. I for one will enjoy next year without Jose just about as much as I would with. Not going to the playoffs anyway. For me what was fun last year was watching the kids bust their ass, not watching Jose go into protection mode for Fa the final two months.
TRS86
11/8/2011-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
I guess I am just over the Omar culture of “if healthy…” yet continuing to bring in and fill out the roster with those type players on multiyear deals. How many times did you hear the Brewers say if Fielder and Braun are healthy?
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-6:02pm at 6:02 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with you on the ‘Omar culture’ as you describe it.
I just happen to think that Jose is the exception to signing FAs to big contracts who are on the downside of their career. Reyes isn’t. He’s in his prime. And he’s homegrown. And he’s one of the best SSs out there. Jeeze, the Brewers are looking at him b/c they don’t think they can afford Fielder but are willing to throw just a little less at Reyes.
And the Marlins….even cheap-ass Loria is looking at him.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-5:55pm at 5:55 pm (UTC -4)
They’d have enough to sign him AND keep Pagan, Pelf and get some arms if the payroll wasn’t going to be lowered to 100 MIL or less.
And that’s my point in a nutshell about the Wilpons and their financial situation.
Either sell the team or be willing to invest. Not just tread water keeping your fingers crossed we can operate for a few years like some mid west team.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-5:53pm at 5:53 pm (UTC -4)
I just can’t agree that Jose at 100 MIL is a bad investment.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-7:04pm at 7:04 pm (UTC -4)
Of course it’s not, and it is being dictated by Wilpon finances–or lack thereof.
TRS86
11/8/2011-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
Starting down here. Nady was a much different situation. It is much easier to find Nick Evans than it is Cf. Also it is not like the Mets traded crap to get him and unfortunately the Mets only have crap to trade.
Anonymous
11/8/2011-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
Hi folks!
Anonymous
11/8/2011-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
wassappin’?
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-11:12pm at 11:12 pm (UTC -4)
He’s back…..
Paul J. Festa
11/8/2011-7:04pm at 7:04 pm (UTC -4)
I got Ed Kranepool’s autograph on a baseball at a signing he did at the OUTDOOR Garden State Plaza. I still have that ball today.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-8:24pm at 8:24 pm (UTC -4)
Braves announcing they’re out of the Reyes sweepstakes.
Didn’t really thing they’d be in on him to begin with.
MetsFan4Decades
11/8/2011-11:12pm at 11:12 pm (UTC -4)
44 MIL for 4 years for Madson? Not sure I’d do that at his age.
Wait…it’s the Phillies? Keep on signing ‘em, Amaro.
Here’s hoping they give Rollins a 5 year mega million contract next.
Anonymous
11/9/2011-12:46am at 12:46 am (UTC -4)
If I didn’t have better things to do I’d start a Occupy Worlds Fair Marina Park to highlight the need for the Wilpons to sell.