So the Marlins are kicking the tires of Jose Reyes, good for them. More power to their owner and organization if they are going to invest in a star like Reyes. And I’ll say it first, if Jose Reyes leaves the Mets and signs with the Marlins or any other team, I won’t blame him one bit nor will I won’t boo or hiss him whatsoever when he makes his return to Citi Field. I will admit though, that this is real tough to watch. What really scares me is that I got this gut feeling that we are going to go through the same thing with David Wright.
So be it.
I can’t blame Sandy Alderson for rebuilding the Mets. Let’s face it, that’s what he was brought in here to do. This team needs direction and a plan and for the first time, I see one. No, I won’t boo Reyes when he returns to Citi Field.
I’m leaving that for the person who made him leave.
Jose Reyes is doing what is best for Jose Reyes. Can you blame him for going for the money and the years? Can you blame him for looking somewhere else? Reyes wants the big payoff and it’s obvious that the Mets aren’t going to give it to him. If Jayson Werth can leave the Phillies, who were winning no less, why do we expect Reyes to stay with a team that is currently rebuilding? Werth went for the money and the years and that’s exactly what Reyes is about to do except he may land on a contender. That may be the only part that really hurts. And it may be the Marlins that he lands on, that might hurt just a bit more.
Instead of blaming Reyes, let’s lay the blame on the one who is responsible for this mess that we will call the New York Mets…..Fred Wilpon.
“He thinks he’s getting Carl Crawford money”.
I’m not saying that Jose Reyes is leaving the Mets just because Fred Wilpon made this stupid statement. I think that Fred revealed that he won’t pay Reyes a Carl Crawford like contract. Thus opening up the floodgates for other teams that are willing to pay.
And pay they will. And watch we will, when puts on that new hat and jersey at some press conference.
Like a stated earlier, what scares me is that we are going to have to to through the same thing with David Wright.
32 comments
Anonymous
11/11/2011-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
I wonder if Jose’s potential landing spot will have any effect on Sandy’s decision making.
If the Angels or an AL team have the top bid then maybe the Mets only offer 5 years but if its the Marlins or Nationals then maybe Sandy throws in an option or two, maybe even an additional year…
MetsFan4Decades
11/11/2011-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
Blame starts and ends with the Wilpons, with a little of Selig thrown in.
Just a few short years ago, the Mets wouldn’t have batted an eye to resign Reyes. This is all about the Wilpons financial mess right now, and nothing else.
Sure….they needed to turn the franchise around and build from the ground up – something that they’ve neglected in the past several years. But if not for the financial mess, they could have kept the payroll status quo, signed Jose and restocked the farm system.
This is all about Alderson being brought in to tread water while the Wilpons desperately try and hold onto the team. It’s going to be real ugly to watch.
‘So goes Reyes, so goes the team’.
Darknova306
11/11/2011-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
Going to the Marlins would be a good move for Jose. He could spend all his hamstring rehabs on the beach. In my opinion, he’ll likely be an albatross for whatever team he signs with within three years.
MetsFan4Decades
11/11/2011-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
This may very well be – Jose on the DL more often than not.
But unless or until it happens, Reyes signing with another team will just mean a whole lot of ugly around Met land for awhile.
Anonymous
11/11/2011-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
I totally agree about Jose; who can blame him for jumping from a rapidly sinking ship.
But I totally disagree about Sandy rebuilding–he’s not rebuilding at all; he is dismantling. If he was rebuilding, Jose would have been traded during the season for what would have surely been at least another future piece like Wheeler.
As I have said, the low point for the Minaya-and-Wilpon-destroyed-Mets has not been reached yet.
Hopefully 2012 will be the abyss and we then begin climbing out.
But at this point, the Wilpons simply must sell.
MetsFan4Decades
11/11/2011-4:58pm at 4:58 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe…..
I don’t believe for one NY minute anyone could have predicted Reyes having the first half he was having before the injury. Alderson would have had to trade him in June to maximize the return b/c no one had the hindsight to see the first DL stint. That and he didn’t come back from the DL until about 12 days before the trade deadline, right? Not enough time for teams in contention to get a gauge on whether Reyes could contribute during their stretch run.
Trading him in June would have been raising the white flag too early.
Trying to trade him at the trade deadline probably would have been trading low, IMO.
In order to rebuild, don’t you have to dismantle first to some extent?
Anonymous
11/12/2011-3:40am at 3:40 am (UTC -4)
Exactly, there was no shot they were getting a Wheeler type player for Reyes the second he went on the DL on like July 2nd. Before that the best offer they were getting were a couple of mid prospect nothing Pitchers from the Red Sox. I’d rather have the picks. The fact that they got Wheeler was astounding since nobody else was going to overpay for Beltran. The Braves and Rangers wouldn’t but the Giants flinched and did. Possibily after feeling the pressure from Wilson at the ASB openly recruiting for Beltran. Who’s to say that extracting Wheeler from the Giants wasn’t the behind the scene’s price to avoid tampering charges that Selig probably would have backed for his hand picked franchise resurector Sandy.
Paul J. Festa
11/11/2011-5:07pm at 5:07 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. I won’t blame Reyes for leaving. The state of this team is ALL on the Wilpons.
SaltyGary
11/11/2011-6:13pm at 6:13 pm (UTC -4)
Waaa friggen Waaa, Jesus Christ folks, can we move on to another subject.
I got a new name for this site, “The Real Emo Mets Blog”.
MetsFan4Decades
11/11/2011-6:39pm at 6:39 pm (UTC -4)
Emotional investment….isn’t that the quintessential definition of a fan?
If you’re just a baseball fan, then you can probably derive enjoyment from watching just about any 2 teams play. But a ‘fanatic’ of one particular team? That usually carries with it an emotional investment in that particular team.
LOL…they’ll be moving on to another subject soon enough. As soon as Reyes signs with another team, it’ll be all about Wright being traded next.
SaltyGary
11/12/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
My emotional investment is in the jersey, and in the stadium and in the town, not in the guys wearing the jersey. If things don’t work out you give the jersey to someone else. The team has produced abysmal results since ’07 and I’m done hanging on to the players that were a part of that.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed.
New Belgium came out with their winter brew. It’s good. I hope they consider distributing this stuff to the North East in the coming months, for your guys sake.
Snow Day
Pleasantly hoppy, Snow Day
carries the subtle chocolate and caramel flavors of a new brewing malt
known as Midnight Wheat. The Styrian Golding, Centennial and Cascade
hops bring the backbone of hoppy bitterness to complement the roasty
undertones. This beer is the deep garnet of a roasted walnut and
presents a creamy tan head, floating artfully atop. Snow Day is bold and
hoppy, drinkable and strong.
SaltyGary
11/12/2011-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
Stop it’s only 9:30… MUST RESIST DRINKING, have family, ohh but the cascade hops and roasted walnut undertones ARGHHH I’M NOT STRONG ENOUGH
Anonymous
11/12/2011-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
I’m repainting the dining room today, then redoing the closet organizer in my MBR closet.
so yes, beer is on the menu.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-8:20pm at 8:20 pm (UTC -4)
It’s nice. Very smooth, yet not very chocolate/coffee-esque like a porter or a stout. Yum.
SaltyGary
11/12/2011-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Sierra Nevada’s Celebration Ale should be out any day now. Just an excellent fresh hop beer.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, looking forward to that as well. If only we had as many livers as we did kidneys…
Anonymous
11/13/2011-1:15am at 1:15 am (UTC -4)
Do you think Jose Reyes will have a mug when signing his new contract?
Anonymous
11/13/2011-1:29am at 1:29 am (UTC -4)
i always viewed him him as more of a shot guy…
Anonymous
11/12/2011-3:51am at 3:51 am (UTC -4)
Ditto. Hey I love Bernabe but I’m done. Take your balky hamstrings and walk if the price is better elsewhere. I passed the 5 stages back in June. And after watching the talent gap between us and the teams competing in the post season just move Wright and Santana when healthy during the season and just get this thing completly torn down already. Seaver was on the money yesterday: “if you’re not signing Reyes there’s no reason to keep Wright since you’ll clearly be in a long term rebuilding mode, get something for him”. My third fav player but not over the long term best interest of the team if the price isn’t right. I still think there is a chance he tours these other teams and goes back to Sandy and asks for something less than max to stay. But aside from that just move on already since he’ll be.
TRS86
11/12/2011-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
I am not upset over Reyes anymore and understand why some want to go ahead and dump Wright. However I think his value is too low right now and the Mets would get much more for him if he rebounds. In fact as I said in an earlier post they most likely could wait until Early 2013 to trade him and still get what they need.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
still a guess. Won’t know what bites you get until Sandy trolls him through the water.
TRS86
11/12/2011-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
If I had time and access to a computer instead of my Droid I would write the following.
I would not blame Sandy Alderson and the Mets if they did not want to invest 100M plus in Jose Reyes. I am saving that for his inability to play full seasons without either getting injured or going into full protection mode for months at a time.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
reyes and wright are an interesting case due to age. usually it would be older guys (say like Utley and Howard) where 2 years could be huge. But with our guys, they are at the age where they should just be hitting prime, and could be top level players for another 3+ years, with a couple more stil good ones.
So if there was enough money in the budget (say keep it at 140), it would be perfectly logical to keep them LT (if you trust their skills) even if the next 1-2 were going to be retooling.
That way, you fill in gaps with vet role players (like say Berkman!) and hope to get lucky while you let young guys develop, while still having your big $ guys be useful.
But, I don’t actually trust that Wright ever will go back to what he was (and I still say the beaning ruined him, with some Citifiled and trying to carry the team thrown in)0
These 2 guys are not the problem, even with the $$ constraints. It is paying 25mill to a guy that may never pitch again (or could be Chris young) and ~17 to a aging former good hitter that now sucks.
IMO< if Santana and Bay disappeared, they could field a pretty good team even at 85mill, including keeping David and resigning Jose. But with those wastes eating up 40-56% of the budget, bad things will happen.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
I’m sorry but I cannot complain one bit about the Santana deal. Almost every single big time deal will wind up hurting the team after the halfway point but the 3 years we got from Santana were brilliant and something this team hasn’t seen since Doc.
Granted he only pitched 5 innings last year in the minors but its not like he was getting rocked. He looked good and while he’ll never win another CY Young, there is no reason why he still cant be an ace.
The question is, if Santana and/or Bay has a really good first half, do the Mets try and trade him? I certainly would for both and free up as much money as possible for the 2013 free agent class.
Keep Reyes, Keep Wright and if you can unload those guys (even if you have to eat 50-60% of it, then we’re in the position to pickup a Matt Cain and a Michael Bourn. Fill the rest with home grown guys and were on our way back
Anonymous
11/12/2011-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not complaining about the deal in hindsight. Just that in the present reality, it is those contracts that are really causing the problems.
and yes, Bay is available for sure, and if Johan looks like he can still pitch and some team (Say, the evil empire) is willing to take on a chunk of the salary, they would move him too.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
Joe D over at MMO mentioned that there was big trouble brewing (again, take it for what it is) and that the salary level could be 85 mil in 2013. Now, not saying that will be the case, but it is realistic that they could get to that number if, with the new dimensions, Wright and Bay rebuild their value and if Santana proves to be healthy. Granted, you’d be eating cash on both Santana and Bay most likely, but it is possible.
Now, I hope all I wrote above is a big old pile o’ crap, but knowing Selig is looking to retire, the Wilpon safety net is going away, which could bode well for those wishers of a sale…
Anonymous
11/12/2011-11:08pm at 11:08 pm (UTC -4)
I saw that. A couple of us called him out too on it. He seems to have gone Cerrone too (pretending to be an independent blogger but toeing the party line to not jeopardize his insider status.
either say what you know or say nothing at all.
SaltyGary
11/12/2011-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
KLAW on the Pap’s signing ESPN Insider article:
I thought signing Ryan Madson for four years and $44 million was a bad idea, even though he is the best free-agent reliever on the market, both short- and long-term. The history of signing relievers to deals of that length is simply too awful to ignore. That contract would have been a bargain relative to the four-year deal the Phillies are about to give Jonathan Papelbon — more money, plus a lost draft pick, for an inferior reliever who gives up more fly balls. Papelbon was the second-best relief option on the market, but even in one of his best seasons in 2011, he was worth only two or three wins above replacement, and I’d put the over/under on his WAR for this deal at around eight, which would still make it a pretty bad contract. But the real issue with any reliever and with Papelbon specifically is high attrition rates — relievers don’t last, and their peaks tend to be short.
Papelbon has remade himself once after bottoming out with a
fastball-only approach a few years ago, but even now he relies heavily
on the hard but very flat four-seamer, which likely won’t translate well
to a good home run park in Philadelphia. (His career-low home run rate
in 2011 wasn’t going to last, anyway.) And Papelbon has worked limited
innings, never reaching 70 in a season, probably the Red Sox’s response
to his 2006 shoulder injury. The Phillies, as a team, threw 1,477 innings in 2011 and are now going to pay, on average, $12.5 million per year to Papelbon to throw maybe 4.5 percent of those. If they maintained that per-inning rate across their entire staff, they’d spend about $277 million on pitching alone. And since the ninth inning isn’t always, or even often, the most leveraged inning in a game, this is a criminal misapplication of funds, not to mention the discarding of yet another first-round draft pick for the Phillies, whose farm system is depleted after a number of trades and other first-round picks lost for free-agent signings. Madson remains the best reliever on the market, but the gap between him and the second-best option is much larger, and that should help him max out his
value, although the Phillies might just be completely out of touch with
the market for relievers and how a sane executive would rationally value
the innings they provide. As for the Red Sox, they pick up the Phillies’ first-round pick, which would make it easier for them to use their own in signing a Type A free agent. They can slide Daniel Bard into the ninth inning — I don’t see his stuff or arm slot translating to the rotation — and invest the money not spent there on shoring up their rotation.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
the whole draft pick thing isnt exactly accurate. They’ll actually do better if Madson signs with a team that finished 16-30. They will improve their 1st round pick and get a sandwich pick
While that contract is going to suck in the long run, if he goes out and helps them win a WS or at least a pennant its all worth it…
MetsFan4Decades
11/12/2011-5:46pm at 5:46 pm (UTC -4)
4 years, 50 MIL?
Hey, great signing for the Phillies – from a Met fan perspective – IMO.
Anonymous
11/12/2011-7:55pm at 7:55 pm (UTC -4)
If they offer him arbitration. I assume they will, but it would be interesting to see if he took it!
and if any team should know about relievers dying off, it should be the phils (Lidge).
But, they got the money, so might as well overpay.