Nov 27
The Met outfield is the subject of today’s question.
We all know that Jason Bay is here to stay but how do you feel about Angel Pagan? Do you want him as the Met center fielder or would you like to either bring up a prospect or pick up a cheap free agent?
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37 comments
MetsFan4Decades
11/27/2011-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
Tough question…
I see the logic in tendering him a contract. He’s got to be the fall back option, at the very least. If they decide to go with a prospect in ST instead, or they pick up a cheap free agent, you could always trade Pagan if he’s no longer needed.
If only this was the 2013 season coming up given the position the Mets are in. We’d have a few more options to be looking at in ST than we’ve got now. Too many guys down there are still at least a year away, if longer….
Anonymous
11/27/2011-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
well, we certainly seem to be on the same page with this question!
Anonymous
11/27/2011-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
right now, I see the logic in giving him a contract. IMO, none of the CF prospects will be close to ready opening day, and the talent on the open (FA) market is pretty thin. So, he might still be the best option for 1 more year.
Now, if they manage to trade for (or somehow pick up) a better option, he either goes back to being a good 4th OF, or he gets traded.
So, I can see why they tendered him, and there is a chance he has a bounce back year.
What they really need to do is flip Bay into RF, and find a LH bat (maybe even F Mart or that Loewen guy) to platoon with him, and just let Duda settle into LF.
TRS86
11/27/2011-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
Even after a down year he is the best option by far. The fa market is garbage in cf and we got No one close to ready. And yes Bay toRF is a MUST.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not “even after a down year”—it’s more like even after a down career, aside from May-July 2010.
Paul Hadsall
11/27/2011-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
I’d love it if the Mets could upgrade in center field, but there are no prospects that are ready to start the year in the major leagues and all the free agent options look the same or worse than Angel Pagan.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
This is what the whole Mets blogosphere is like right now. Just to sort of sum it up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVsOvzIEVDE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Anonymous
11/27/2011-4:36pm at 4:36 pm (UTC -4)
I see 2012 as a lost cause, so I support letting kids play; the idea that Pagan’s presence is going to be the difference in 2012 is just nuts.
I say save 5 million or so; it is not impossible that the Madoff case could be settled in the spring on favorable terms for the Wilpons and that that 5 mil could be useful during the season to pick up a player with a future.
The whole debate over Pagan is just crazy. No player of marginal consequence has ever gotten this much debate. He’s nothing. He’s spent his entire career as a mediocre bench player, had three good months as an everyday player in 2010 and we debate him like we are debating all stars like Reyes, Beltran, or KRod.
It’s nuts, and frankly I cannot wait until he is gone so this inane debate ends already.
Spending so much time on this guy also symbolizes the incredible lack of talent we have.
I say keep moving on.
MetsFan4Decades
11/27/2011-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
What kid though can play CF now? Not FMart, not Captain Kirk – no one else is ready. Someone has to play there.
And probably the only reason Pagan gets ‘so much debate’ is b/c this team isn’t going to do anything else this off season. He’s about the only one in question, maybe along with Pelfrey. The rest are just about the same, with or without Reyes. Pick up some arms for the BP, a couple of 1 year contracts for the starting rotation and call it an off season.
Wish we could fast forward to 2013.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-4:56pm at 4:56 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t really disagree. I just cannot see spending 6 million on Pagan. Platoon several guys? I don’t have the answer; I just feel pretty certain the answer is not Pagan.
And bad as Pelf was last year, he eats innings, and that to me is much more important than having Pagan in CF.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-5:06pm at 5:06 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve never been in the Pagan camp so my view is biased but I’d rather have the 5 mil to spend on the pen. Nice guy and all but I’ve never seen him as an everyday player. On a good team he’s a spot starter for stretches. What to do in CF? I’ve been all for either throwing a kid out there like Capt. Kirk and letting him learn but that was under the premise that I could stick Pridie out there as a late inning defensive replacement platoon. With Pridie in Oakland now I’m not as sold on that idea. My other thought was we’re paying Bay anyway stick him in CF and with the fences moved in it might not be as problematic covering ground. 2012′s another waiting year so in either case I just assume purge Angel from the mix and move on and spend the money on the pen. The FO has rumored to not be that enamored of Angel’s skill set so I don’t expect him back. Just thought of this one: An Endy signing as rumored serving the Pridie role stated above and go young with Endy for late innings.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-5:14pm at 5:14 pm (UTC -4)
Love the Endy idea. Even if he had to play every day, he would be nearly as productive as Pagan with MUCH better defense.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-5:27pm at 5:27 pm (UTC -4)
I would not be so sure about endy being a productive every day player. Even though Angel had an off year (ops+ of 94, after 122 and 108 the prior 2 years), that was still way better than Endy. His last 3 years have been very weak.
In the Pridie role? Well, that is a different story, if he can still play good D.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-6:12pm at 6:12 pm (UTC -4)
I can be big enough to admit that I am just biased against Pagan. I think he’s mediocre at best, and his endless mistakes are just a horrible example for the many kids we’ll have around, and also have to be very disruptive to the team having a positive attitude.
Pagan’s kind of like the OF version of Figgy to me.
Is he objectively better than that? Probably. But he’s not a part of a winning team. Spend the 5-6 mil on Endy and two bullpen arms of higher quality than what you might afford after paying Pagan 6 mil.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-5:22pm at 5:22 pm (UTC -4)
I was on record a year ago saying Pagan was a great guy to have as the fourth OF. now he is just expensive for the role.
And he at least qualifies as a ML player. None of the CF prospects can even vaguely be considered ready to compete for a job in ST next spring.
So, since they will have to get someone anyway, just sticking with the guy they got and locking in a set cost.
If say Kirk had not gotten hurt, and had a big finish in AAA, then they may have cut loose Pagan and taken a chance on a rookie. Hopefully by ST 2013 we will see that happening.
Adam "Prismo"
11/27/2011-5:56pm at 5:56 pm (UTC -4)
I’m okay with the Mets tendering Pagan a contract……..if it leads to them immediately trading him.
SaltyGary
11/27/2011-6:25pm at 6:25 pm (UTC -4)
I would rather sign the great and retired Joe Orsulak than Pagan. Complete waste of money. The more money the team spends this year so they are only crappy as opposed to abysmal, is a waste. Shore up the financial house, let the kids play and invest that Pagan 5 million on next seasons draft.
Even if they resign Reyes attendance is not going to tick up this season. Reel everything in. Spending for the sake of short term fan appeasement makes no sense. The fans will be pissed about something else come June. “The Mets need to suck for Luck” and convert him into a outfielder.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-7:26pm at 7:26 pm (UTC -4)
still, with the kids idea, you have to have one that has at least earned a shot at the job. The mets don’t have a CF int he system that really has yet.
SaltyGary
11/27/2011-10:00pm at 10:00 pm (UTC -4)
At this point there is plenty of time to give people a shot. Wrap duct tape around FMART’s legs and just get him out there. Stop gaps are fine as well. I imagine Coco can come in less than Pagan, Ankiel def can (he would be good just to yell Timo at and remind him of ’00), hell even Corey Patterson. The team can easily spend just 2 million on a stop gap rather than 5 million on a underperformer that for some reason people think he is totally going to be a different player.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-7:42pm at 7:42 pm (UTC -4)
I am totally with Gary. Or spend some on a couple of bullpen arms.
Pagan’s crap.
Mediocre/stopgap/etc.
He’s not the future, so why the hell spend so much on him?
Anonymous
11/27/2011-8:54pm at 8:54 pm (UTC -4)
I wish they would go after Cepedas (sp?), as he rumored to want a Chapman type deal. That’s about 7mil per. That’s 2 mil more than Pagan. So, even if you do/don’t count Reyes, getting Cepedas would be an upgrade offensively and supposedly defensively as well, only cost about 2 mil more and Pagan could be moved for a better BP arm than what’s here already. Hell, package Pagan, and Gee/Pelf and another to get a decent back of the rotation SP…
SaltyGary
11/27/2011-10:04pm at 10:04 pm (UTC -4)
Have you scored any of that New Belgium fresh hop ale?
Anonymous
11/27/2011-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
I unfortunately have not yet. I am on the lookout, for sure. Seems they are pushing the “Snow Day” seasonal for them at the moment. Normally I get a Folly Pack (3 each of 4 different brews), which switches up almost every month. I doubt the NB Fresh Hop will get in that pack, as it’s most likely a limited run. Still scouting. Will advise should I find.
The Breckenridge Christmas Ale is out. Looking forward to trying that as well.
MetsFan4Decades
11/27/2011-11:35pm at 11:35 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you on the Cepedas idea.
However, given the fact that the Mets haven’t been remotely linked to taking a look at him, I’d have to say he’s not in the plan. But he’s one guy I would take a chance and spend the money on. It’s not like we’ve got anyone else waiting in the wings for CF. At best, we’ve got a couple of kids who might work out there in lower ball – in a couple/three years.
Anonymous
11/28/2011-12:01am at 12:01 am (UTC -4)
with all the guys coming off the books, if they can’t even be in play for a guy that could potentially be part of the core of the future, for ~6mill/year, then the team should flat out be taken away and put into receivership.
The deal would work on many levels. talent, trying to put a viable product on the field for 2012, building block for the future, etc.
plus, the interest factor could end up driving enough extra ticket sales to pay the contract!
SaltyGary
11/28/2011-1:40am at 1:40 am (UTC -4)
” if they can’t even be in play for a guy that could potentially be part
of the core of the future, for ~6mill/year, then the team should flat
out be taken away and put into receivership”.
You are absolutely right. And this is one of the reason’s that I don’t want to see any money going towards Pagan. I don’t believe they have the flexibility right now but if there are in the position to get someone that will be beneficial beyond the next 2 years and it makes sense, I want to see them go for it. I would just rather their payroll be at 70m of there is no-one worth picking up instead of being at 100m and nothing to show for it besides more debt.
Darknova306
11/27/2011-8:59pm at 8:59 pm (UTC -4)
Pagan is five million dollars worth of garbage. Next question.
SaltyGary
11/27/2011-10:03pm at 10:03 pm (UTC -4)
Great answer and, what beer did you drink over the week? I got some Choc Stout from Brooklyn Brewery. Tasty but tough if you don’t like stout. Some people would compare it to motor oil. Been totally addicted to Berkshire extra pale ale and porter. Just cracked a sampler from Butternut Brewery in upstate NY. The IPA had a sour finish that I wasn’t into and the stout was decent. Haven’t tried the rest.
Darknova306
11/27/2011-11:27pm at 11:27 pm (UTC -4)
Aside from lots of homebrew I got to try the Stone Vertical Epic from this year, Southern Tier’s Hoppe (an ‘extra pale ale’), and a Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout I’ve been aging since ’06.
Good call on the Berkshire Brewery, they do great stuff. I haven’t had a chance to try their extra pale ale, but the porter is really nice.
Butternut is actually about 15 minutes away from me. They make a couple good beers, but I’m really not a big fan. The stout is easily my favorite.
SaltyGary
11/28/2011-1:24am at 1:24 am (UTC -4)
Oh why did you say that. I might need to stash one. I think if it had a little more age it would be better. Over the summer I got some Stone “Oaked” IPA and it was rough. Kept the rest for about 4 months and it was a totally different beer and very enjoyable.
Anonymous
11/27/2011-11:31pm at 11:31 pm (UTC -4)
Have you tried the Breckenridge Vanilla Stout? Not normally a fan of vanilla, but this was excellent.
Darknova306
11/28/2011-12:20am at 12:20 am (UTC -4)
Haven’t had the Breckenridge, but I just tried the Abita Double Dog, which is a really well done vanilla beer. Vanilla has to be subtle, which is really hard to do.
Anonymous
11/28/2011-12:34am at 12:34 am (UTC -4)
you beer snobs. Moosehead was giving free t shirts in the case. Bet you didn’t get that!
Hey, with the volume that the crowd I hosted put away on a holiday, i would go broke buying the expensive stuff.
i did get a 1/2 case sampler of Long Trail to have something micro in the mix (along with Yeunglings and Moosehead for everyday use)
SaltyGary
11/28/2011-1:21am at 1:21 am (UTC -4)
Yeungling is pure Awesome! America’s oldest brewery. Also, you can’t go wrong with long trail. I great brewery that makes a bunch of beers that snobs and regular beer drinkers can all enjoy.
Anonymous
11/28/2011-2:43am at 2:43 am (UTC -4)
Always have had a soft spot for Yeungling. Hell, any company that can win a law suit against Budweiser when Bud tried to have them stop using the eagle in their logo is OK by me. Too bad Bud, they had it first. Love it. I seem to recall they used to have a great Double Spaten back when they were mainly regional in the 80′s.
Darknova306
11/28/2011-1:45am at 1:45 am (UTC -4)
Yeungling is an old college favorite of mine, along with Killians. I’ll slum it with cheap beer now and then
SaltyGary
11/28/2011-1:23am at 1:23 am (UTC -4)
Haven’t seen anything from Breckenridge. I had a vanilla stout at the beer fest in Boston this summer but can’t remember where it came from. I remember that I enjoyed it but didn’t think I could go through more than one at a time. I agree with Nova, vanilla is a very strong flavor.