Now, the title of this piece might be a little misleading if you did not follow football this year. This past off season in the NFL, the Philadelphia Eagles spend a crap load of money bringing in all types of talent. On paper, it looked like a fantasy football team. This prompted their backup quarterback Vince Young to call them the “dream team”. As the season unfolded, they played anything but “dream team” football, ending their year with an 8-8 record and out of the playoffs. Analysts had all types of reasons of why the eagles missed the playoffs but there was one overarching theme to all of them, “they had a collection of talent but no team”.
After Jeffrey Loria screwed the city of Miami to build his new stadium, he began a $191 million dollar spending spree that brought the talents of:
- Ozzie Guillen 4 years/$10M
- Jose Reyes 6 years/$106M
- Heath Bell 3 years/$27M
- Mark Buehrle 4 years/$58M
- Carlos Zambrano 2012:$2.5M, 2013:$19.25M(vesting option)
This splurge of spending and trading has put the Marlins on some analysts prediction to win the east and make a deep run into the playoffs. While this team as constructed has great potential to be a solid force in the toughest division in baseball, I wonder if they are missing the same piece of the puzzle that the Eagles were missing. Some of those issues already started to surface with Hanley Ramirez issues with moving to 3rd base to accommodate his FRIEND Jose Reyes. Carlos Zambrano and TEAM are no where near close to being mentioned in the same sentence, hell he announced that he was retiring after a bad game and just left the stadium! You have Guillen who is no stranger to ESPN post game rants about his teams play, which is a sharp break from what the veteran Marlins players are used to. These are real dynamics that I am not so sure have been really thought out all the way through.
You dont have to think back too far to see examples of BIG Spending or BIG Trading gone wrong, hell a perfectly good example are New York’s next door neighbors the Phillies. The Phillies last won the world series in 2008. There was no Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay on that squad. However, the squad that did win had been together for quite some time already and learned how to play as a team. Every man for the name in the front, not the back. A notorious example of acquiring a heap of top talent but never going anywhere is the Yankees. Think about the Yankee team in 2000 for a second…you had the talents of Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Tino Martinez, Andy Pettite, Paul O’neal, Mariano Rivera and Jorge Posada. Most of those guys have been on the team for a long time and they learned how to be a team. Once they figured it out, they had a dynasty that no other franchise has yet to match.
What the hell does that have to do with the Mets? The Mets right now are in the process of making a team. Does finances play a part of that, of course it does. Do I think that if Sandy had Omar’s budget, would he acquire the same kind of talent? I think he wouldnt. I think the Mets may have finally turned the corner on the whole “big acquisition = championships” theory that has plagued many teams over the years. Teams win championships, not a collection of talent. That being said, there are growing pains that come with this strategy. The Mets may not be that interesting to watch regarding playoffs but if there is one thing worth watching the Mets this season is to start to see how they are becoming a team, how the new core is coming together. My bet is when the Phillies, Marlins and Nationals all figure out that big money doesnt win championships in the next few years, the Mets will be one step ahead with a team in a position to acquire “helping” pieces rather than “big money talent” while the other teams are stuck with bloated contracts that are unmovable. One thing that the Eagles have taught sports this year(and the yankees pretty much every year) is that a dream team on paper isnt necessarily one in real life.
31 comments
darknova306
1/19/2012-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
“Now, the title of this piece might be a little misleading if you did not follow football this year”
Couldn’t care less about football. It’s a wussy version of rugby, which is an actual sport. Guys on roids in large helmets running into each other for two seconds of every five minutes isn’t very exciting.
Paul Festa
1/19/2012-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know how they’ll gel as a team, but Ozzie, Zambrano, Reyes, and Hanely would be entertaining as all get-out on a reality show.
Dirtysanchez
1/19/2012-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
ESPN is licking their chops at this…
srt
1/19/2012-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t follow football so I’ll take your word on it regarding the Eagles.
I agree with your analysis here. As much as the next few years are going to be tough to watch in this division, I too think we’re headed in the right direction.
- Philly is going to get old – heck, are an aging team now. They’ve depleted their farm system to some extent as well with those block buster trades.
- The Braves always seem to develop some nice young talent – especially pitching – so I expect that to continue.
- The Nats…..their success is going to depend on that pitching with Strasburg. IMO, they overpaid for Werth and they might be looking still to pick up Fielder – although I think his contract won’t be lengthy.
But the Marlins? I still believe Loria’s strategy with these contracts this year and his new stadium is he went all in. Squeeze every bit of profit he can for a couple/three years, then sell. That’s why he’s not worried about years down the road and back loaded contract.
It’s the Miami Circus. Coming soon to a town near you.
Stickguy
1/19/2012-6:25pm at 6:25 pm (UTC -4)
The way the NFL season played out with the Eagles and Giants is about the only thing I have enjoyed in months.
Seeing the phillie crowd getting nervous about the immediate fuutre is pretty enjoyable though.
I know they won a ton of games last year, and are the cream of the league, yada yada yada. But 2 years running lack of offense sank them in the playoffs. And really, the only thing “elite” about them now is the top 3 in the rotation. So if age/miles catches up to 2.3 of that, or if Hamels has a setback of any kind (he did have 2 surgeries after the season), then they easily come back to the pack.
At least, I can always hope!
NJstuckinTX
1/19/2012-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Isn’t the Carlos Z contract costs a little skewed, as Chicago is picking up some of that tab?
Dirtysanchez
1/19/2012-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Your totally right, ive editied the post regarding that bit of info. Good Call
gategem
1/19/2012-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
Dirtysanchez, do you follow the NFL as close as you do baseball?
Dirtysanchez
1/20/2012-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
you bet…go big blue
Stickguy
1/19/2012-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
I looked at that list again, and am not sure it is that huge of an improvement (and to be fair, I have no clue who these guys are replacing).
Mark Buehrle is solid, but not exactly a star, and no spring chicken. Would liek him on the mets, but is he a real difference maker? And how much of an upgrade. Zamrbano? Horrid last year, and who knows what you get.
Bell did have a good year, but again, at his age, is he going to dominate? how much better than whoever he replaced (or whatever other options you could use)?
SO that leaves Reyes. What reyes do you get? studly guy up though July, or Castillo V2 from late july thru year end? The guy that did little for 2 years prior? I think somewhere in the middle. A good player, but not someone carrying the team.
Are they better? Sure. Some kind of WS juggernaut? Don’t see it (though not mentioned, JJ coming back healthy and pitching all year would likely be the biggest upgrade).
Hazmet
1/19/2012-9:23pm at 9:23 pm (UTC -4)
As a Giants fan no love lost for the Eagles at all. But, in fairness to attempt to draw a correlation to the Marlins here it goes. Yes, the Eagles had a ton of talent signed but their failure could also just as well be attributed to that they hired an ex-Offensive Coordinator to be their Defensive Coordinator this year and that this guy never coached Defense in his life. Comparison to the Marlins: Yes, they have a ton of talent but unfortunately not only has Ozzie managed a baseball squad but he’s pretty damn good at it.
Reason to fear the Eagles D next year: Spags is going back home to coach D. uh oh.
Stick
1/20/2012-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
why is going back to the Saints a reason to fear the Eagles?
Hazmet
1/20/2012-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Touche. All reports had him going back to the Eagles. Had no idea the Saints would grab him – didn’t see that from 14 hours or so ago.
kingman 26
1/20/2012-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
Ah, let the Marlins denial begin! I hope it will be at least half the fun of Phillie denial! And maybe it will also last a half-decade or more!
Anyone remember the 1997 Marlins?
Ozzie is a proven winner with perhaps the ideal personality to lead this group of youngsters and vets like Hanley.
The referenced Hanley piece is over 6 weeks old, and there have been other much more recent pieces suggesting just the opposite; sources also have said that he wants to do anything to win, etc.
Ken Rosenthal recently titled a piece with something about this, then IN the piece quoted Hanley as saying he’d do whatever the team wanted!
Reality check:
—The reporter quoted Ramirez as saying, “I have spoken with (manager Ozzie) Guillen. What we want is to win with the Marlins. We will see what’s going to happen with the position switch and everything else. If it’s third base, OK. Wherever they put me to win, I’ll do it.”—
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/miami-marlins-hanley-ramirez-prefers-to-play-shortstop-but-will-move-to-third-base-010312
It’s going to be a long, long year for the Mets. With or without extreme denial.
Dirtysanchez
1/20/2012-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
That was not the way it first went down…im sure that came with alot of butt kissing but at first he really did not want to do it. And if it was coming from someone else you’d probably regard it as rumor but considering its hanley…im sure its more truth than fictional. He is going to move now, gritting his teeth along the way. Yea, the 97 marlins won it all and firesale…same with the 03 team but this years team salary is virtually more than those two teams combined. Big money doesnt win championships…teams do and thats the point of my article.
Stick
1/20/2012-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
easy to say the right thing this point of the year (and remember, it is really PR releases not honest quotes from the player).
The real test is going to be ST when Hanley gets his feelings hurt, or the first game in the season when he has some botched plays at 3B and gets boo’d or he gets his feelings hurt.
Hey, it’s the competition, so any disruption is a good thing!
kingman 26
1/20/2012-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
No way either the Phils or Marlins top 65 wins this year.
darknova306
1/20/2012-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
They’ll be lucky to get 65 wins combined! I mean, the Phils are so old and decrepit that their players literally have body parts falling off. They’ll all be in wheelchairs by season’s end! And the Marlins, well… they’ll spend too much time fighting and screaming at each other that they won’t actually pay attention on the field!
Man, denial is fun.
One of these years, eventually, the “Phillies are old and declining” people will be right and Philly will fall off. The more years they say it, the closer we crawl toward it becoming reality, so they can pat themselves on the back for having predicted the decline. Wheeeee!
kingman 26
1/20/2012-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
+ A frigin million.
Dirtysanchez
1/20/2012-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Thanks for the sarcasm guys :/
kingman 26
1/20/2012-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
How does anyone know what he wanted? Everyone WANTS this to be a story, but it is not and never has been. It’s people speculating about what he may or may not want, while he consistently says he WILL move. It’s the Olneys and Rosenthals of the world creating more nonsense which blogs re-report, and which has not a shred of fact to back it up.
And teams with lots of talent across the board win.
Teams with power, speed, starting pitching, and really good closers.
The Marlins have an ace when healthy, 2-3 other good starters, a very good closer, decent-to-good bullpen pieces who will all be better by being moved down a spot as Bell takes over the closer role, they have a very good leadoff man, a perennial all-star in Hanley, a blossoming 21-year-old slugger in Stanton, and, as they always do, several other good young players as well.
And a manager with experience and a title.
Ask yourself this—if YOU were a Marlins’ fan, how would you feel about their prospects for 2012?
MetsFan4Decades
1/20/2012-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Fans always over value their teams chances.
Reading the early returns of some of the baseball analysts though, the consensus seems to be a 3rd place finish for the Marlins, behind the Braves and Phillies.
We shall see….
kingman 26
1/20/2012-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, but a 3rd place finish behind the Phils and Braves could still very possibly mean 85–90 wins.
Or, to use a math formula, X + 15–20 Wins.
(X representing the Mets’ approximate win total.)
TRS86
1/20/2012-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
I think too much is up in the air right now. Will they beat up on each other? Will the Phillies suffer enough for the Marlins to net some wins? Will the Nats sign Prince? Will Hanley rebound? Will Werth rebound? Will Josh Johnson be healthy?
All I know is on paper we are not very good… LOL.
kingman 26
1/20/2012-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I surely agree with the last sentence!!
I think they all beat up on the other divisions, really.
St. L and AZ surely take a huge step back in 2012; the east could be brutal.
stick
1/20/2012-9:01pm at 9:01 pm (UTC -4)
there are other divisions were the eventual winner (that obviously goes to the playoffs) might finish 4th in the NL east.
Mr North Jersey
1/20/2012-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
Nice post Dirty. On paper the Mets don’t match up with their NL east rivals so I can understand as a fan looking to find the flaws in our rivals in making the argument that they may trip during the season. For me as a Mets fan I know our chances this year are not good when compared to a team like the Marlins but I also don’t want to surrender to the idea we are going to finish last before a game is even played.
Mets history is about 3 words “Amazin, Miracle and Believe” and while the reality when all is said and done suggests one thing I am going to try and enjoy the season and hope that maybe once again those 3 words become a staple of the season.
gategem
1/20/2012-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
Unfortunately Amazin’, Miracle and Believe’s foundation consisted of the likes of Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman, Gary Gentry, Nolan Ryan, Tug McGraw, Jon Matlack, etc. With Santana coming off serious injury I don’t see the likes of those in the 2012 edition of Wilpon’s Mets.
kingman 26
1/20/2012-3:41pm at 3:41 pm (UTC -4)
“Never underestimate the power of denial.”
–Ricky Fitz
Mr North Jersey
1/20/2012-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
gategem
1/20/2012-7:15pm at 7:15 pm (UTC -4)
Cub’s Manager Phil Cavarretta who in the spring of 1954 told owner P. K. Wrigley he didn’t believe the team could win. Cavarretta was immediately fired. So it’s not wise to be a realistic Manager either.
BTW those Cubs went 64-90 and finished 7th in National League