According to Mike Puma of the NY Post:
Bay could lose Mets left-field job
So this is what many of us wanted to hear. That at the very least the abysmal Bay will be platooned in LF if he continues to struggle.
However, as normal this could be fodder as the actual quote in the story reads:
“Though the idea has not yet reached the discussion stage among team executives, a club official yesterday floated the possibility that if Bay is struggling six or seven weeks into the season, the Mets could explore other options, including a platoon in left.”
In fact two other Mets officials had this to say:
“it’s still too early to seriously worry about Bay.”
Perhaps both are right. With the Mets LH options limited due to injury and development, for now it appears Jason Bay’s job is safe in LF and will not be entering a platoon. However, if come June Jason is still hitting Mendoza like vs RH pitching and Captain Kirk is pressing for the stage his days could be numbered. There’s still a lot of time though and a lot of dominoes to fall. How will Torres’ bat play in CF? How competent will Duda be in RF? There’s a reason that the Mets are predicted last and honestly Jason Bay in LF is one of the lesser of those reasons.
52 comments
Ceetar
4/2/2012-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
yay for filler pieces?
We haven’t discussed this at all, but hey Mike Puma, maybe we could platoon Bay?
Opening Day is in three days, we’ll actually start to accumulate real data instead of making up what could happen in six weeks and what the Mets response to it could be. That’s too many ifs.
Also it’s the most obvious thing ever: If the Mets have a player that’s better than a player they have that’s struggling, they’ll try to get more playing time for the better player! Well duh!
NJstuckinTX
4/2/2012-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Well, the best of the best situation wold be Bay hitting like a 16 mil per year player. If that isn’t going to happen, or he isn’t even going to hit his weight for an average, the best scenario is to accelerate his exit, giving Duda a true place to call home. Bay certainly isn’t in the long term plans. See if Omar wants a GMJ part 2 in SD?
TRS86
4/2/2012-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
You know looking at it though, it’s not his average that is the problem. He’s never really been a BA guy. His OBP has to come up some BUT most of all he has to have a SLG % at all. I think it may have been -.300 last year.
NJstuckinTX
4/2/2012-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
Everything is down. I never expected him to hit .300, but .220′s… come on now.
TRS86
4/2/2012-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I am not counting ST BA… the sample size is too small. However, his two years here his BA is been the one to go down the least of his stats.
NJstuckinTX
4/2/2012-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Was referencing his BA in regular season (I know it wasn’t .220, but I enjoy them exaggerations…) and just using that as a stat in general. But yes, all his numbers are down. Bay has figuratively fallen off a cliff.
gategem
4/2/2012-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
Kong commented that in the past Bay may have taken PEDs but stopped using after he signed his contract. That would definitely reflect in his slg%. It would also slow down his bat speed causing him to commit earlier on a pitch thus explaining his problems with low and outside breaking pitches.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
There’s really no data on exactly what PEDs, specifically without knowing which ones, do for you. It’s a shot in the dark explanation at best.
NJstuckinTX
4/2/2012-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
A “shot” in dark, it may be, but it does follow a logical thought process.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
So does Bagwell seems to be a good candidate for it, therefore lets not vote for him for the hall of fame.
Jeter was a struggling minor league prospect trying to make the big club, which was a clubhouse full of drugs, he must’ve used.
Not like the drug testing changed when he joined the Mets.
NJstuckinTX
4/2/2012-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
They could be jacking Jim beam and PEDs straight into their veins in front of the Pope. That wouldn’t stop me from voting for them. Probably not the mainstream view, but one I can adhere too. So, voting or not voting, I care not. The point, however, is referencing the drop off that Kong and Gate mentioned. It does seem to follow a pattern.
saltygary
4/2/2012-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Bay is toast. If he is slow out of the gate, I imagine they would make a decision and let someone like Jordany get their shot. At this point the only thing his high contract guarantees is, it will be hard to unload him. I don’t feel Sandy or Terry have any problem benching him at this point.
TRS86
4/2/2012-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
I am guessing a platoon by June if Kirk is healthy but again that also depends on what happens in CF. The real question is once he becomes a platoon guy, do they go ahead and move him to RF and let Duda play everyday in LF?
Ceetar
4/2/2012-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
I doubt they swap the positioning mid-season, but I guess that depends on how Duda looks. Personally I’m not expecting him to be disastrous. It may be likely he’s below average, but probably not damaging so.
As far as Bay goes, It’s unlikely that he’s flat out benched this year. If he repeats his career worst year of last year, which I’d bet against personally, they’ll probably just start using Mike Baxter there against Cole Hamels and the like.
Only Nieuwenhuis is knocking at the door to the majors right now, and he’s not coming up to platoon.
TRS86
4/2/2012-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Ceetar I am not sure Kirk has to platoon. If he could handle it he could play RF for Bay against RH and CF for Torres against LH.
Also to the point on making the change mid-season. You may be right. Again it depends on Duda’s defense, Torrres’ bat, Bay’s bat and Kirk’s health and play in AAA.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
That was basically my point above, there are way too many things that need to happen before a Bay platoon becomes an option that it’s barely worth talking about.
I wonder if they’d bounce Kirk around the OF like that. I suspect if both Torres and Bay are okay on their splits like that, that the offense won’t be struggling enough for the Mets to feel they need to find a way to get him up here.
Unless they just play Kirk all the time in CF and play _Torres_ against the lefties when Bay sits.
I think Bay raises his game to just barely passable this year though. teetering that line. He did finish strongly last year and hit twice as many home runs in the second half as the first. (4, to 8)
MetsFan4Decades
4/2/2012-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
“it’s still too early to seriously worry about Bay.”
Too early in the contract? Too early this season?
Come on…..we know they’re worried. We know they’ve discussed it. We know eyes will be on Bay. They’ve got the option that might kick in, if for no other reason.
I’d like to be really wrong on this but I’m with Salty. Bay looks done.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
“4/2/2008: Carlos Delgado is done. Bring up Mike Carp”
TRS86
4/2/2012-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Delgado was done because of injury though. Bay is done because of general suckitude.
MetsFan4Decades
4/2/2012-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
You might be able to point to that bad concussion, if not for the fact that he didn’t look good before that injury.
TRS86
4/2/2012-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I forgot about it.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
No, he was done because he had a slow bat and couldn’t catch up to the fastballs anymore. Or many of the same excuses made about why Bay is not hitting. Also was blamed on him dogging it for Willie Randolph.
It even continued through April. It wasn’t really until that 9 RBI Subway Series game that Delgado ‘woke up’.
Stick
4/2/2012-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Delgado though was still productive his prior 2 seasons (particularly 2006). Numbers tailed off in 2007, but he still put up counting stats with some power.
I do remember though how many people wanted him gone in 2008. I know I was shocked he turned it around like that, but I would be more shocked if Bay did it, since this is his 3rd year of lost.
Mr North Jersey
4/2/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Yes but unlike Bay Delgado had at least put up good numbers at one point as a Met prior. Bay has been lost from Day 1 as a Met.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Delgado’s ’07 is an okay comparison to Bay’s ’10. Delgado had a .620 OPS in April of ’08. Difference was mainly that Delgado occasionally ran into one and hit it out, Bay just beats out some singles that he hits with enough weird spin in the infield (sorta like Jeter)
I’m not really trying to make a comparison, just noting that a lot of the arguments people are making for Bay not getting better sound like the same arguments that were made for Delgado in ’08. Delgado was a better player all around, but both were/are coming off their worst full season of their careers.
To explain away being wrong, people started claiming Carlos dogged it for Willie. I wonder what the excuse will be if Bay starts hitting this year?
Mr North Jersey
4/2/2012-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
“I wonder what the excuse will be if Bay starts hitting this year?”
Bay himself has said in so many words he doesn’t know what is wrong.
This is more than just a slump or a player trying to play through injury or a player getting old. This is a guy that has completely lost how to drive a ball with authority on any type of consistent basis.
He and Delgado share zero similarities.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Jason Bay finished the season with a .954 OPS in September.
Spring Training stats don’t mean anything for anyone, they don’t magically mean things for players fans don’t like or “need to prove something” (Which, btw, Jason Bay does not. He’s known he’s going to be the LFer all Spring)
TRS86
4/2/2012-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Of course his stats in September mean something but his stats in the other 90% of the time he has been here mean more.
Mr North Jersey
4/2/2012-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Ceetar really? September?
Come on look at his body of work as a Met. Bay himself acknowledges his struggles.
Spring Training stats mean nothing I think everyone is in agreement. This is more to do with what went wrong the “TWO” years prior and looking for signs that he is close to figuring out what the problem was despite the results. For example simply turning on the ball hard but driving it right at people or missing foul.
Have I seen signs of this I would at least be somewhat optimistic but in the brief chances I have seen him so far in camp I have yet to see that on a consistent basis.
Ceetar
4/2/2012-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
other 92% actually.
Still, there’s not enough evidence and hard data to suggest he’s a lock to have a year as bad as 2011. There’s no reason to get ahead of ourselves, based on what we’re _guessing_ he’ll do over the next 6-8 weeks.
Mr North Jersey
4/2/2012-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Ceetar, there is nothing to suggest he has figured it out. If anything there is evidence that he will continue on this downward spiral based on simply watching his at bats so far in camp and I don’t mean the results.
Everyone will agree that he can turn it around but when you tried to draw comparisons to Delgado that was a reach on your part if for the only reason that Delgado did have success at 1 point as a Met prior to his slump.
NJstuckinTX
4/2/2012-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
If I was guessing, i’d side on the 92% side vs. the 8% side, but that’s just me…
Ceetar
4/2/2012-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Also, you’re taking the 92% over the 8% and that’s fine, but you’re also forgetting that’s like 5% of his total career.
when do you draw the line? Arbitrarily when he became a Met? like there’s really some curse in the fabric of the uniform?
I’m not comparing Bay to Delgado, i’m comparing the analysis of their situation and the predictions made about them.
Maybe the problem is simply that Bay has been mostly nicked up and sporadically out of the lineup his entire Mets tenure. Maybe the concussion did more long term damage than was thought and it carried into last year. Maybe another offseason helps heal that, or maybe it doesn’t.
Stick
4/2/2012-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
that is why I was fine with the idea of getting the 6-8 weeks to show something. Since he does have 2 years of general suckitude in the bank already to prove it wasn’t a fluke!
and while he might be able to reinvent himself a bit as a slap hitter of some kind, he really is filling a role that is supposed to supply some level of power (beyond what say Thole can give you).
Mr North Jersey
4/2/2012-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
Your suggesting that people also said that Delgado was done and look at what he did after people said this.
You are making an attempt to compare the two. I don’t see how that can be read any differently.
It is a reach on your part. You may not agree with it being a reach but barring an explanation on your part there is no other way I can see how to interpret it.
Stick
4/2/2012-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
well, it does point out that there are cases where aging guys that seem to be shot do rebound (at least temporarily, in his case).
But keep in mind that Delgado actually did have an injury, right? Or did that not hit until 2009? But I think something was wrong with him early in 2008.
still, much more common that when guys seem this toasted, they stay that way.
MetsFan4Decades
4/2/2012-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Delgado was hit on the hands during the last 2007 game and broke a bone in his wrist, right?
Was healed and proclaimed ready to go for ST.
I never bought into that ‘tanking’ argument for Willie.
I thought once he got going – it had more to do with that injury just not fully healed and not being able to get around quick enough on his swing.
darknova306
4/2/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Bay is toast. He’s got no clue what he’s doing at the plate. He’s not one of those veterans that’s “coasting through the Spring so his ST stats mean nothing”. He’s been terrible for two years and has a ton to prove, and he’s looked completely lost this spring against a mix of major league and minor league competition. He’s garbage, and banking on his strong finish to last year is silly.
Mr North Jersey
4/2/2012-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
So let me guess today’s secret word is “toast” right?
NJstuckinTX
4/2/2012-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I have a quibble with toast.
Stick
4/2/2012-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
and bits!
Stick
4/2/2012-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
6 weeks sounds right. Enough time for him to prove that he is (or isn’t) completely shot. If his ST fog carries into the season, it may not take that long!
what exactly happens with him, of course, depends on all the variables others have noted, but his exodus from the starting lineup will be hastened by another player pushing his way past to steal his PT. If that doesn’t happen, you may seem him out there longer by default.
one way or another, I don’t expect to see him on the team in 2013.
saltygary
4/2/2012-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
If he is hitting Mendoza the 10 people in the stadium are going to get bizonkers.
I’m on the same page with you, if he’s “Toast” by six weeks then changes will be made. Just think about how quick the front office was pulling Emaus. Yea he didn’t make any money, but I don’t think the FO cares about that, they want results.
I can’t see how his performance will be any better than it has through his tenure. It is very obvious he doesn’t see the ball. He is always over-matched and swinging defensively.
Stick
4/2/2012-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Bay’s salary is firmly into the sunk cost category, so they are pretty much close to the point where they might as well just release him if he doesn’t show any signs of life.
Paul
4/2/2012-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
I’d be thrilled if the Mets hierarchy has really reached the point where they’re ready to start considering other options besides hoping that Jason Bay will eventually return to being the player he was with Pittsburgh and Boston.
But it sounds too much like a late-spring filler piece that relies on speculation and un-named sources.
Stick
4/2/2012-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, there has to be some fire behind this smoke. Of course, you can make these broad statements about anything team related, since I bet they have all kinds of “what if” discussions every year. Including stuff like trading their 3B, or dealing with a useless LF!
MetsFan4Decades
4/2/2012-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
This morning in St. Lucie, Frank Francisco said he will get an MRI on his left knee today.
According to SNY’s Matt Dunn, Francisco said the knee doesn’t hurt him, but it’s been swelling. He had the knee drained yesterday.
If he winds up on the DL to start the season, wonder who is named the closer? Should not be Rauch, if his ST stats are any indications. He was especially awful yesterday. Giving up a GS to a minor leaguer who had one HR to his name as a minor leaguer….
Stick
4/2/2012-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Dang. beat me too it!
but hey, at least I answered your questions, right?
MetsFan4Decades
4/2/2012-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
Ha!
I have no idea if Francisco heads to the DL if they’ll even name a closer to start. I’ll bet they mix/match their way through to start.
Given the fact that Parnell hasn’t given up a run this ST – and that includes 3 innings of work to start today’s game – he’d probably be a good a choice as any right now.
Maybe he really did learn something from Koufax and Izzy…..
Stick
4/2/2012-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
certainly wasn’t learning anything from Warthen Why does that guy still have a job?
but, good chance to treat it as open auditions. Let a few guys have a shot to see who wants to grab the job. I never expected FF to keep it all year anyway (heck, I was never quite sure why they signed him to that deal in the first place).
MetsFan4Decades
4/2/2012-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
I’m curious about why they seem to be so high on Warthen myself.
Stick
4/2/2012-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
on another topic, I see that Francisco is now going for an MRI. Looks like that bust may not have taken long to play out!
and given how scary Rauch has looked (not the climbing vine on his neck, rather the severe lack of pitching ability), time to take a page out of the Brave’s book, and stick Edgin and parnell at the back end of the pen maybe?