Hey everybody! It’s time for(cue Johnny Carson opening music)…………… Let’s play GM. I’m your host Gonzo Will.
Welcome! (cue audience applause)
On today’s show we have not so much as a surprise guest but more of one that we knew was going to pay us a visit. Please welcome Andres Torres!
(Andres walks onto the set with a frown)
Hey Andres! How’s that calf feeling today?
(Andres just begins to cry)
Hey we’re sorry about that but look at the bright side…Port St. Lucie has a lot of great discounts this time of year now that everyone’s left.
(Andre’s breaks down again and has to be carried off the set)
So folks on a serious side. Let’s start off by saying this; given the history of the way the Mets handle injuries coupled with the history of Andres Torres, it may be a long, long, long, long, long time before we see this man in Citi Field again.
Captain Kirk Nieuwehius is headed to Citi for tomorrow’s game.(if he isn’t already there)
Here’s is where we play the game of GM. Yesterday on WFAN, Mike Francesa said that the Mets should go out now and drop a little cash and maybe pick up a salary dump somewhere in the league. The name he threw out-Marlon Byrd of the Cubs. He said that doing this would show the fans a little hope and maybe give them a boost to prove that Wilpon and Co. are out to improve the team. (because honestly, Scott Hairston is another injury away from joining Torres for bowling)
What do you think?
Should Sandy go out and search for a Salary Dump player for his Center field? Do you think he should trade one of his prospects to get one?
Here’s another question: What would YOU do if you were GM? Would you bring up a Kirk from the Minors or are you going out and trading for a player?
Finally, what about Marlon Byrd? If he could be gotten for let’s say….. a decent prospect, would you pick him up?
And Hey! Thanks for playing Let’s Play GM! Be safe and drive defensively!
See you real soon!
79 comments
Stick
4/6/2012-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
good stuff here. It’s gold Jerry, gold.
me? tough call. if Kirk had played a normal spring, and did well, absolutley call him up. But since he was just back, I would have been much more likely to go find someone else.
but, who is there? Byrd for the cost ($ and talent) is iffy. He isn’t all that good at this point, and I don’t think he is that good defensively at this point.
anyone else on the scrap pile?
I think they really did want Kirk up here anyway, so while this is a little soon, the calf forced their hand. So give it a shot.
also, keep in mind they can do this as a stop gap instead of panicking and overpaying for a mediocre fill in. Try it for a couple weeks, and see how torres is healing and Kirk is performing. Can always go make a move at that point if needed, right?
anyway, if hairston/Kirk can give comparable production to Byrd, why bother?
trs86
4/6/2012-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
I am not sure if Spillborghs reported to AAA or not or if Fred Lewis found a job but I thought either would have been worth looking into.
Stick
4/6/2012-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
if they have something to offer, don’t cost real prospects, and don’t eat up the entire mid-year additions budget, go for it!
but again, I think they really intended (hoped for?) Kirk to step in anyway with torres going to a 4th OF role. or replacing bay.
so might have been earlier than expected, but still how they wanted to go.
NJstuckinTX
4/6/2012-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Is it possible to switch problem children? Bay for anyone?
trs86
4/6/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Well, he and Alex Rios are due about the same amount. Rios could play in CF or RF and Duda could move to LF.
NJstuckinTX
4/6/2012-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I’d do that. Bay for Rios, with extra nonsense involved to make it work. Not sure Williams would, but that’d be worth it, just for the CF option and the purging of Bay. At this point, even if the money is still paid out, the stigma of Bay is at Castillo proportions. Not quite Ollie levels yet.
trs86
4/6/2012-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
The problem is that Rios has actually been worse than Bay.
NJstuckinTX
4/6/2012-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Then maybe you can get Rios and low prospect for Bay? Again, it won’t happen, but the is minimally more depth in the corner OF spots than CF so why not strengthen the D and have Loewen or someone play a corner OF spot?
Moving deck chairs on the Titanic at this point with the OF…
oleosmirf
4/7/2012-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
I would absolutely make that move if Chicago throws in money to equal it out. Change of scenery would help, at least initially.
Also Rios does have an extra year, but its less money per, which makes his contract more moveable…
Stick
4/6/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I wondered that a few times. Not sure what position they could find someone for though. And 1/2 the time, what you get back is a worse headache!
might be a bit too early for that kind of move anyway.
wanny
4/6/2012-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
never thought i’d say this but i’ll take someone else’s dump.
our options — and our depth in general — is woeful.
the mets are undefeated. can’t take a dive now.
trs86
4/6/2012-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
So what do you think about Rios then Wandy? He’s actually been worse than Bay but is a little more versatile.
Stick
4/6/2012-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
why bother? Unless you honestly think he has a better shot to rebound, though he can probably play CF a bit better.
trs86
4/6/2012-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I guess it would take some scouting but also the fact that you could move Duda to LF permanently then as Rios/Kirk and Torres all can play CF/RF.
Stick
4/6/2012-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
the Duda factor could tip the scale. Though I still am optimistic that he wil ldo OK out in RF. he has enough arm. And made a nice play going way back near the wall yesterday. He does (small sample of course) look a lot more comfortable out there this season.
I don’t expect to ever post about how awesome he looks out there, but wil lbe happy to just not even notice him on defense (meaning he doesn’t do anything too horrid!)
trs86
4/6/2012-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
Thing is Stick we know it’s not his permanent position and as soon as Bay is gone he’s moving.
trs86
4/6/2012-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Uh… Wanny, not the pitcher in Houston.
wanny
4/6/2012-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
was wondering about that. i don’t even throw left handed.
definitely pass on rios. he’s signed for too long – through 2014,
i’m talking about a guy who is competent in CF, signed through the rest of this year.
and i’m not suggesting trading a real prospect as suggested in the posts below.
a pure dump of a guy like byrd or someone else on their last year of the deal.
trs86
4/6/2012-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Not even for Bay? LOL.
wanny
4/6/2012-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
i was talking about as a replacement for CF or someone else for OF depth. of course, i wouldnt deal bay for rios either because i’d rather not have either and bay is gone sooner.
wanny
4/6/2012-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
oh, i see. would i trade bay for byrd? i’d even throw in mike nickeas.
trs86
4/6/2012-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
Hell I can’t even remember what I meant. I think I was saying that even though Rios is signed longer their contracts are worth about the same so would you rather have Duda in LF, Rios in CF and uh… in RF or Bay, Uh.. and Duda?
I understand that Rios is signed for longer but you could actually release him or use him as a 4th OF that last year and still not be on the hook for anymore than you are Bay. I just think he might give us more flexibility.
wanny
4/6/2012-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
you’re right. assuming bay stays healthy he’s guaranteed another $33m while Rios is only guaranteed another 26 or 27 (he has some kickers in his contract if he is dealt).
But I’d take the chance that Bay finds another injury because then his 2014 option won’t kick in and he’s much cheaper.
but i can see the point. if you feel you’re stuck with bay through 2014 then might as well be stuck with someone who can suck at all three OF spots.
don’t see the benefit for the CWS, though.
TRS86
4/6/2012-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
Good point on the benefit for the Sox. I think they might have the depth in CF but maybe think that Bay could provide some RH power… LOL. I couldn’t help but laugh when I typed that.
wanny
4/6/2012-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
LOL.
wanny
4/6/2012-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
i mean “ja ja ja.”
Paul
4/6/2012-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Rule #1 of being a GM should be: Never trade prospects for fill-ins, unless they’re going to help you make the playoffs this year.
As nice as yesterday’s Opening Day victory was, let’s not get ahead of ourselves – this is still a 70-75 win team.
If Sandy Alderson thinks Kirk Niewenhuis is ready for the big leagues, give him a shot at the job. If not, see who else is available… but don’t give more than fringe players for a short-term solution.
gategem
4/6/2012-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
I totally agree with your sentiments. We must keep our eye on the big picture here and that is building a franchise for long term success.
Prismo
4/6/2012-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
And sometimes not even if they’ll help you make the playoffs!
How much do you think the Giants are regretting trading Wheeler for Beltran…
trs86
4/6/2012-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
Hopefully about as much as the Mets trading Kaz for Zamby except Wheeler doesn’t burn out at age 26.
srt
4/6/2012-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you on this.
Can’t see the point in trading a bad salary for a bad salary.
Don’t want to trade prospects for a CF unless that CF will make the team better and be around for more than one season.
Prismo
4/6/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Francesa is out of his mind if he thinks the Mets should trade any prospect for a player in his mid 30′s as a short-term stop-gap. (I heard that segment as well).
Torres is only on the 15 day DL, and he said this tweak wasn’t as bad as the one during spring training.
And heck, even if Torres was out the rest of the season, I’d rather see what Kirk and/or Dan Dekker can do rather than trade prospects for Byrd (or anyone like that).
Stick
4/6/2012-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Francesa is out of his mind
There. cleaned up your post.
trs86
4/6/2012-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I am not in on trading any value for a temporary solution. Unless that solution can then be spun back for prospects when Kirk was more ready.
Bryan
4/6/2012-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Byrd doesn’t really do much for me. Unless we know for certain that Torres will be out considerably longer than 2 weeks AND that Hairston/Kirk can’t cut it there really isn’t a need to spend money or prospects on a mediocre stop gap center fielder.
wanny
4/6/2012-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
i don’t think francesa (whom i have never agreed with on much of anything) is suggesting that the Mets trade a den dekker or a lagares for byrd. hes talking about taking on a salary dump.
saltygary
4/6/2012-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
The only reason you take a guy like Byrd is if he is DFA’d and you can sign for league minimum.
Milton Bradley is avail ;P
Ya know Damon is available as well. That would be a trade chip move. Try and sign him cheep, give him the playing time and some contender would give something up for a experienced veteran like him. By no means am I suggesting anything great, but maybe a high upside minor league guy..
Stick
4/6/2012-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Would it be more logical to sign Byrd for “cheep”?
trs86
4/6/2012-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, I get it a bird cheeps.
saltygary
4/6/2012-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Byrd is under contract for 6.5M. So if he is not DFA’d the cubs would have to offset a lot. Also why give up anything for him and there are similar players to be had.
Damon was signed last year for 5.25M. Could 2M make it happen? Would we want it to happen? I was never for Torres starting in the first place.
trs86
4/6/2012-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
I did not mind the idea of Damon but lets not pretend that he can still play the OF as well as Byrd or if he can even play the OF at all.
Stick
4/6/2012-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
he would be effectively taking the Baxter role. LH PH, play the field occasionally to give a guy a day off.
that he could do, but not sure I would want to hand him the every day CF job for an extended period!
Playing for Bay vs. some (all?) RHP? that is a different question. But not the one that needs answering at the moment.
trs86
4/6/2012-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I would bring him in but I am not sure he comes in to back up/platoon with Jason Bay.
trs86
4/6/2012-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Plus at this point don’t we kind of want to see what Kirk has?
saltygary
4/6/2012-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
I want Kirk getting consistent AB’s right now. If he is going to start up here, then great. I just don’t want to see a platoon.
Stick
4/6/2012-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
I agree he needs to play, but I think for now there will be a platoon because the team is so lefty heavy otherwise.
Murphy, Ike, duda and Kirk and Thole is a lot of lefties against a strong LHP.
Mr North Jersey
4/6/2012-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I still waiting to hear on the severity of Torres calf but if Torres is only out for about 3 weeks I think calling u Kirk is the way to go.
He can play CF and by many accounts had it not been for his injury he stood a good chance of making the team.
He will only be here for his glove for now since he is the closest they have regarding a MLB Ready Centerfielder plus he is already on the 40 man roster.
If Torres was going to miss some significant time I can see possibly making a trade but admitting my bias of wanting to see Kirk make the team for a while now I’d still prefer Kirk overall.
My concern is that Kirk’s style of play is with a somewhat reckless abandon and therefore him injuring himself will be a daily concern.
Prismo
4/6/2012-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
He said he thought it wasn’t as bad as the ST injury, which didn’t cost him much time at all.
trs86
4/6/2012-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
But the question is did they rush him back which caused the 2nd injury?
Stick
4/6/2012-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
fine line. If he had an appropriate amount of rest, felt fine, and was able to work out and play some ST games without apparent issue, then let him play.
you can always say give them a little more time (and in this case, probably true), but then you would never get a guy back! Not worth anything to the team on the DL.
with a 2nd occurance, they might want to be a little extra cautious though this time.
Mr North Jersey
4/6/2012-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Collins said Torres had passed every test he was required to pass and Torres looked just fine prior to the injury.
trs86
4/6/2012-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
OK question here.
The Cubs are interested in Lannan (I am assuming it relates to Byrd for them but…).
Would you guys trade Pelfrey for Byrd and a prospect?
Stick
4/6/2012-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
depends on the prospect, but I actually say No. They need someone in the rotation more than an aging CF stop gap.
I actually am curious though what trade value Pelf has. Plenty of teams are sucking wind at the back of the rotation, so if he starts out looking good, and a few ill timed injuries pop up, he might be somewhat in demend.
but, still goes back to who the hell replaces him. None of the ML guys look ready, so you end up with batista or schwinden instead, neither of which is an improvement.
trs86
4/6/2012-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I am not sure he has much value considering that the Nats have Lannan in AAA. I think that could show a few things. Either there is no market, the market is waiting on the Nats, the Nats don’t trust the health of their pitchers.
It seems like an easy move for the Nats, Byrd for Lannan helps both teams.
Prismo
4/6/2012-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe unlike the Mets the Nats actually value starting pitching depth (GASP!) and wouldn’t mind keeping a guy like Lannan around just in case. He’s certainly a guy who can be a started, and even a decent one.
Another note about the Nats – they only plan to use Strasburg for 150-160 innings this season. If they stick to that plan, they KNOW they’ll need a starter for 7 or 8 games late in the year. Perfect role for Lannan if they keep him.
trs86
4/6/2012-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I just know he is pretty disgruntle about it and don’t really have a true CF either.
wanny
4/6/2012-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
No chance. Not a Pelfrey lover but he still gives you something rarer than what Byrd gives you for relatively cheap — somewhat competent innings.
There are more Marlon Byrds than there are guys who can pitch 200 innings for decent money.
jdon
4/6/2012-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
For 3 weeks work? They weren;t expecting a whole lot of offense from Torres anyway, so unless he is gone for half a season or more, I don’t see how this injury really changes the plan.
wanny
4/6/2012-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
i can’t say i agree with the fact that they weren’t expecting offense from Torres; they are batting him leadoff!!!!
But if they’re not expecting any offense from him that is all the more reason to find someone else.
trs86
4/6/2012-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
I think you both have a point. I don’t think they were expecting him to be a black hole but I do think they viewed him as a placeholder and 4th OF. He is hitting leadoff out of necessity instead of desire I think.
Stick
4/6/2012-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
I am 100% sure that he was brought in as a temp stop-gap until someone else was ready, and I would bet that they expected it to be Kirk this year. More of a hedge in case he was not fully ready to go in ST from the shoulder (not expecting something unrelated of course).
also why I think they are rolling with him now, instead of going with another temp.
I would also believe that if he looks good, he can stay when torres comes back, and get a lot of PT in CF and in LF for Bay. Might end up taking Baxter’s job in effect.
Oklahoma Met
4/6/2012-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry for hijacking this post for this. But, I’m relatively new to the site and I just wanted to show appreciation in “public” for the work being done here. It’s really great to see rational baseball discussion among fans and not have to read through blocks and blocks of “Sandy must be your daddy…” type nonsense. (Sorry for bringing the other place up, last time, honest.) Kudos all around and a big THANK YOU to all involved. LGM
trs86
4/6/2012-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks and you are welcome here anytime. It really is the place with the best comment section. Now with a new group of eager authors I expect it to return to the best site in Mets blogging land.
Prismo
4/6/2012-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t get it – is your father Sandy Alderson or is he not?
TRS86
4/6/2012-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
Well I guess I would much rather him be my father than to be accused of riding David Wright while holding a Sandy blow up doll. LOL.
Prismo
4/6/2012-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
Where in tarnation did that come from!?!?!?
TRS86
4/6/2012-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
Oh the lovey off-season paradise of MMO. You would be surprised what can get through there.
Stick
4/6/2012-3:50pm at 3:50 pm (UTC -4)
I had to give my Sandy doll away. Was not enough room in the closet with my life size Duda doll in there (that takes up a LOT of space).
saltygary
4/6/2012-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
Glad to see you OK. If you want to get a avatar for yourself, just head over to gravatar.com
oklahoma met
4/6/2012-4:11pm at 4:11 pm (UTC -4)
Will do. Thank you.
wanny
4/6/2012-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
the problem here isnt really that torres is injured. ordinarily, i would say that could be a blessing. but when his backups are hairston and baxter — then you have a real problem.
not being able to spend enough money to have a left handed hitting outfielder on the bench that could play CF is a joke.
would have been nice to have picked up endy chavez when he was still available.
TRS86
4/6/2012-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
I said the same thing on Chavez and I have to think they asked but maybe he wasn’t interested. Maybe they truly think Kirk was about ready? Are we sure if he hadn’t got injured that he wouldn’t have made the team out of ST?
Prismo
4/6/2012-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe it speaks just as much to our lack of depth in the minors.
When’s the last time we have a major-league ready prospect who is a center fielder? Carlos Gomez 5 years ago? How can an organization go that long and not have someone everyone agrees is “ready” in AAA?
Corner outfielder prospects who can’t field? We have plenty of them though!
Excuse me if I’ve forgotten anyone.
Stick
4/6/2012-3:53pm at 3:53 pm (UTC -4)
not sure I would really count Gomez, though he could field.
a true CF prospect that amounted to anything? Lenny?
Pretty sad that pre-Beltran, I can’t remember who the hell played CF all those years! Jay Payton, Cameron, and ??
Ceetar
4/6/2012-4:04pm at 4:04 pm (UTC -4)
When you have the best CFer of the previous decade out there, drafting CF isn’t exactly a priority. And then you had Pagan too. We just hit a weak point in the chain and injuries as usually hit at the exact worst time. you forgot Martinez too. and now Nieuwenhuis and you’ve got these Den Dekker type guys that are a couple more steps out.
Prismo
4/6/2012-4:08pm at 4:08 pm (UTC -4)
Didn’t forget Martinez. It was very quickly determined that he wouldn’t be a CF in the major leagues.
wanny
4/6/2012-9:28pm at 9:28 pm (UTC -4)
find me a MLB GM that drafts based on the current MLB roster and I will show you a short sighted buffoon that in all likelihood doesn’t really exist outside of Ceetar’s own unrelenting attempts to defend all things Mets.
Paul Festa
4/6/2012-6:23pm at 6:23 pm (UTC -4)
Carl Everett, anyone?
Hazmet
4/6/2012-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
My hope during the off season was that they’d sign Juan Pierre for insurance but no dice. Now he’ll probably mock me on the Phillies.