I’ve been wrestling with this idea in my head for a while now. The idea of sending Ike Davis down to Triple-A Buffalo to find his swing.
(Photo Courtesy of Michael Baron)
I have been very hesitant to decide on anything up until this point, but now I think it’s tim the Mets made the move.
Ike is struggling, and I mean really struggling, hitting .174 for the year, including .147 in 34 at-bats in May so far. He’s never slumped like this before. He had huge expectations coming into this season, with many people talking about 30-40 home runs for him, but now that seems really unlikely and a huge stretch. At this point, I’d be perfectly happy with him hitting .260 with 20 homers. But Davis can’t do that until he fixes his swing.
Ike has to find what made him so successful in the five weeks he spent healthy last year. He went on a tear to start the season, hitting seven homers while driving in 25 and hitting .302 in 36 games before going down with a season-ending injury. What has slowed him down this season, in my mind, has been his plate discipline. He is swinging at every outside curveball thrown to him. His walk rate is down to almost half of what it used to be. He just can’t seem to find it at the plate.
A similar thing happened to Cliff Lee in 2007 with the Indians. Of course, Lee is a pitcher, so it is a little different, but it still relates. In 2007, Lee started the year 5-8 with a 6.38 ERA. He was very inconsistent with his mechanics and was sent down to the minors to refine his mechanics. Now, this wasn’t some rookie being sent down. This was an established pitcher, who had won 18 games two years prior, but he just could not stop walking people. After ten starts in the minors, Lee was recalled and resumed his role as a starting pitcher in 2008. That year, he went 22-3 with a 2.54 ERA, winning the Cy Young Award. Lee hasn’t looked back since. He is 65-34 since then and has established himself as one of the best pitchers in the game today. This just shows that it can work, even with players who have already had success on the big league level.
This is definitely a move Terry Collins and Sandy Alderson should at least consider. Will it work for Ike? I don’t know. Every player would handle this type of situation differently. Some would be angry, while others would be humbled and use the opportunity to their advantage. The option should at least be explored and discussed. Who knows? Maybe a minor league stint would make Davis the premier slugger that he has the potential to be.
(Also published at Up Along First.)
34 comments
SpencerRealDirtyMets
5/14/2012-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
I have two issues with this at the moment.
1.) Ike has hit much better as of late, and even though the concept of hot streaks is most likely a myth, I am a believer in building up a guy’s confidence. Ike doesn’t seem to have a lack of confidence as of late.
2.) Is there any evidence to support that sending a guy down to work on his swing actually works? I haven’t been able to find any studies anywhere that support that it helps.
Also, who is the alternative? Rottino? Turner?
trs86
5/14/2012-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
Honestly? I guess Murphy is the alternative. Especially once Tejada gets back.
Bryan
5/14/2012-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
My thinking was to give Ike until Bay gets healthy and then if Ike hasn’t started to turn things around then send Ike to AAA. Even though Terry doesn’t want to you can slide Duda to 1B and be able to play Bay and Kirk at the corners, delaying having to make a decision about how to split time among 4 outfielders.
trs86
5/14/2012-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
I still think best option is Murphy at 1B and V-Spin/Turner at 2B then keep the OF 4 man rotation going.
Bryan
5/14/2012-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
That could work too, but Turner and Valdespin would both have to hit better and Terry would have to find a way to manage Bay, Duda, Torres, and Kirk in a way that keeps everyone happy and wins games.
srt
5/14/2012-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
I too have mixed feelings about sending him down.
Thought he was looking like he was coming out of it some, with hard hit balls to the OF instead of just rolling over and grounding out or K’ing.
He was out of the line-up yesterday, reason given was the flu which was believable. Well, it was until Terry used him as a PH. That made me wonder if he really was sick or they were giving him a ‘mental’ day off or two.
The fact that they didn’t leave him in the game for defensive purposes might make that flu story believable.
Will sending him down really help?
I’ll confess to having no idea. Will he really see enough ML or close-to-ML pitching for it to be worthwhile? Is it a problem with pitch recognition, not being able to hit any breaking balls, or his mechanics in general?
I do know that we can’t leave him in the line-up much longer with continued struggling, hitting below the Mendoza line.
trs86
5/14/2012-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
To be fair though didn’t Terry use Duda the entire time he was sick too?
srt
5/14/2012-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
I believe Duda PH at least once while he was out with the flu. Might have only been that one time.
I was kind of thinking there that sending Ike up might have been a decoy type of move on Terry’s part – seeing if they’d make a pitching change at that point, then TC would counter sending Hairston up instead. We’ll never know.
Was just a thought that occurred to me with Ike – not really trying to drum up any conspiracy type theories.
trs86
5/14/2012-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
It was 2 games for Duda. April 30th and May 1st. I guess Terry believes if you are sick you can still swing the stick.
srt
5/14/2012-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
O.K.
I’m reading this morning that Niese had flu like symptoms as well yesterday.
It’s been over 20 years since I last had the flu. Don’t know about you all but from my memory, sitting up in the dugout let alone batting or pitching is not something I could have managed with the flu. If my memory serves me right, feeling like death might be preferable for the first few days is a good way to describe how awful I felt the first 3 days or so.
Either these guys are way tougher than me, or they have the advantage of IV fluids, B-12 shots or whatever else they can give them to get them over the hump or minimize symptoms.
SaltyGary
5/14/2012-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
“He had huge expectations coming into this season, with many people talking about 30-40 home runs for him”
These expectations were pulled out of the fan-bases giant ass, with no evidence backing these number up. So you can’t send him down for that reason.
The reason you send him down is because he is demoralized. He has a poor attitude, he is still arguing with umps on pitch calls, and the the adjustments to his swing look like the poor adjustments I make to my golf swing when I’m getting desperate.
Sending him to Buffalo puts him in a environment where he can work on things while not effecting the main club which will take a lot of pressure off him.
And I believe this fact is still true, all his RBI’s are a product of his HR’s and he has not hat one inside the park hit to drive in a run.
trs86
5/14/2012-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think that stat is true anymore if it was at one point. However, I do know he has had the most PA with RISP and thus has killed the team. IF he stays then you got to put him in the 8 spot or something.
NJstuckinTX
5/14/2012-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Im with you. He needs to go down to refine his swing and get that monster ego on check.
srt
5/14/2012-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
I don’t see a ‘monster ego’ as some of you have described.
I see a 25-26 year old kid struggling big time and not handling it well. To me, that’s a sign of lack of maturity more than it is ego.
Or….maybe goes hand in hand. Checking your ego would be a sign of maturity.
NJstuckinTX
5/14/2012-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Maybe Ego is the wrong word, per se. It’s the whining, complaining, jawing at the umps on every close pitch, slamming the glove down on the ground when they don’t turn a double play… Maybe it is a grand sense of entitlement, maybe it’s silver spoon-ism, maybe it’s ego, maybe it’s just Ike is a pansy complainer. Either way, that has to stop.
srt
5/14/2012-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I think we’re saying the same thing here.
I just see all that as a lack of maturity overall.
trs86
5/14/2012-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I wonder if what is best is sending him to AAA and letting Murphy play 1B with V-spin and Turner logging time at 2B? I wasn’t in favor of moving Murphy earlier in the year and his defense has gotten better but I think he could handle it for a short amount of time. Then if Ike doesn’t get it figured out in the minors Murphy may end up being the future 1B
NJstuckinTX
5/14/2012-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Murph as a man without a position is pretty much how it is going to be. Flipping him over to first isn’t going to kill him. As long as he keeps hitting, he’ll have to adjust to where ever he’s needed.
Only other option is Duda at first, Spin in CF, with Kapt K and Torres in the corners?
trs86
5/14/2012-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
I like Murphy at 1B better than the other option. LOL. I think Murphy plays a better 1B than Duda as well. No it most likely won’t kill Murphy but he has looked MUCH better at 2B and is getting rave reviews from Keith and Ron.
Stick
5/14/2012-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
I’ve been on board for a while. I believe I said give him 6 weeks, and guess what? 6 weeks is here.
attitude, ego, mechanics, whatever it is let him work on it down there. The primary concern should be not killing the Mets. And while the focus has been on 3-F recently, Ike has had a big hand in killing the team in some games (and damn near in some others). If he was having even a 1/2 way normal or even fair year, they would have a few mroe wins.
so, 6 weeks in at .175? yeah, that earns a trip. Plus, he is still relatively a newbie, not an establixhed veteran with a long track record.
Not sure who you play at 1B, and the decision might be easier if there was a roster clog. Say Bay was coming back, you could send ike down, Duda to 1B, and keep Kirk playing too (ignoring the obvious that Bay needs to platoon, but that is another topic!)
trs86
5/14/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
I think you are right about Ike. He has been a much larger problem than 3-F. He has the most PA with RISP and has a .170, .235 line with 18 RBI in 102 PA. Compare that to Wright’s 88 and you get ufpah!!!
Paul
5/14/2012-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
It isn’t fun to watch Ike Davis struggle, but I can think of two reasons that it may make sense to continue to let him work on his swing at the major league level.
First, will he see enough quality pitching in Triple-A to figure out if any adjustments he makes will still work once he comes back to New York?
Second, I don’t see any obvious candidates to replace Davis at the major league level. Do you really want to bring up Val Pascucci to play instead of Ike?
trs86
5/14/2012-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
I think that the bonus for sending him down is to get his confidence back. As for quality pitching, there’s some decent pitching down there. A good mix of wily veterans with tons of breaking stuff and then hard throwing newbies.
As for the 2nd one, you have options for 1B already on the team in terms of Murphy, Duda and Turner. You can call up a guy to take that person’s spot on the bench. Wouldn’t need to be a 1B.
Prismo
5/14/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Not yet.
trs86
5/14/2012-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
When oh Prismo, when?
Prismo
5/14/2012-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
When his OPS is below Pujols’ or when Pujols is sent to the minors. Whichever comes first.
Stick
5/14/2012-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
might want to see my point above about Ike not exactly being an established veteran with a real track record to fall back on (like that other example you had!). Not to mention a big difference (no, not the massive contract): Ike actually can be sent down!
Prismo
5/14/2012-3:56pm at 3:56 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly I just don’t want to shake up entire team by sending him down.
People are saying move Murph to first, starter Turner (who’s terrible offensively too, and not good defensively) at second. Or maybe bring in Duda to 1st and play Hairston every day in the outfield?
Just seems like those are desperation moves, and the Mets’ biggest problem has been the bullpen, not scoring runs. The Mets consistenly get leads in games, but can’t hold them.
The team is winning (record should even be better than it is) and playing far better than anyone thought. I see no rush to play the hand of god so soon with Ike. Especially he had two good games in a row just a few days ago. Let’s give him another couple weeks, maybe a month and see what happens.
I still refuse to treat this season as a “do everything you can to put the best team on the field each day” season, and more as a “let’s try to develop players as much as we can” season.
Guess I’m just a patient guy.
Stick
5/14/2012-4:11pm at 4:11 pm (UTC -4)
eventually you have to make the decision though, because if it is a lost year and he never really gets going, you have a ton of uncertainty going into next year.
and as long as they are still in the WC hunt, then they should be doing what (reasonably) needs to be done to win, and shipping a relative newbie to the minors for a couple weeks is IMO reasonable.
Prismo
5/14/2012-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not sure how starting Justin Turner at second and halting Murphy’s development defensively at the position helps the team figure out what it’ll do next season.
Give Ike more time.
Stick
5/14/2012-4:33pm at 4:33 pm (UTC -4)
if 2 weeks in the minors can help get him back on track, overall it will help the team a lot more than any temporary reshuffling will hurt it.
and if you want to minimize disruption, let someone new play it (as in, call up someone and give them time along with say Turner, or baxter if he can play 1B).
kingman 26
5/14/2012-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
I think June 1 is fair.
If he is still not hitting at all by then, you play Murph at 1B and Valdy/Turner play 2B, until Bay comes back. If one of those 2B is really hitting, let Bay sit much of the time, if they are not Duda plays 1B, Murph goes back to 2B and you play Bay, Torres, and Kirk in the OF.
I have not been as much of a believer in Ike (or Duda) becoming serious sluggers, but this is ridiculous. Ike’s killing the lineup.
gategem
5/14/2012-3:36pm at 3:36 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman leave Ike alone. Hey! Kingman! Leave Ike alone! All in all it’s just another Met in the wall.
Stick
5/14/2012-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
Gate’s on a roll here today.
one thing though Knog, and why I support now (other than, of course, how bad he is doing): the schedule.
If there is really a chance that 2 weeks in the minors can “cure” him, they would have him back for June when they play a bunch of tough teams. And it would be really, really nice seeing him hit pop flys (err, bombs) into the RF bleachers at stankee park.