Jon Rauch reacts after watching Baxter and Niewenhuis botch a routine fly ball.
In game one of their three-game series in Pittsburgh, the Mets fielded a lineup of has-beens, never-weres, might-bes, and probably-won’ts. Oh, and David Wright. With three starters in sick bay, Terry Collins had to get creative with his lineup.
But Terry’s band of misfits couldn’t get the job done against the Pirates, as Pittsburgh defeated the Mets by a score of 5-4 (Box Score).
They got off to a good start, staking Johan Santana to a 4 run lead in the 2nd inning. But Johan couldn’t put the Pirates away, and sloppy defense cost the Mets the game in the 8th.
Mets jump out early
Pirates’ LHP Erik Bedard fell behind Mets hitters early and often. The Mets capitalized on his wildness, scoring 4 runs in the 2nd inning. After an RBI double by Ronny Cedeno, Bedard walked Mike Nickeas, who wouldn’t be able to hit the water if he fell out of a boat. Then, after a sacrifice bunt by Johan Santana, walked ice-cold Andres Torres to load the bases. With two out, Justin Turner came through with a bases-loaded, 2-run single to put the Mets up 3-0. Wright followed up with an RBI single of his own, and the Mets were off and running, 4-0.
Bedard would last only 5 innings, throwing 97 pitches.
Santana gets run support, but can’t hold the lead
Johan Santana was cruising until the bottom of the 4th. He gave up back-to-back-to-back doubles to Josh Harrison, Andrew McCutchen, and Pedro Alvarez, giving the Pirates 2 runs back. Johan got out of a bases loaded jam by inducing a 6-4-3 double play to Michael McKenry.
The Pirates’ bullpen held the Mets scoreless long enough for McKenry to swat a game-tying 2-run home run against Santana in the 7th. Johan appeared to tire that inning, and after a 4-pitch walk to Jose Tabata, on pitches that were not even close, he departed for Bobby Parnell.
Parnell and Byrdak combined to strike out McCutchen and Alvarez, respectively, and the Mets were out of the inning. As for Byrdak, you know the expression, “A batter a day keeps the doctor away.”
For once, the Mets scored more than one run for Santana, but Johan couldn’t hold the 4-0 lead.
Rally in the 8th falls short
In the 8th, with Nickeas on deck, Kirk Nieuwenhus at first, and none out, Terry Collins opted to bunt with Cedeno. Cedeno couldn’t get the bunt down. With much of his bench already used, Collins should have had Cedeno swing ahead of the rolled-up newspaper wielding Nickeas. Cedeno ended up advancing Kirk on a groundout to third – a diving play by Alvarez.
But, Nickeas predictably struck out, pinch-hitter Mike Baxter was intentionally walked, and Torres grounded into a 4-6 force play.
The Mets give it away
Neil Walker led off the bottom of the 8th inning with a routine fly ball to left-center off of Jon Rauch (L, 3-3). Baxter, playing left field, inexcusably interfered with Nieuwenhuis, and caused Kirk to drop the ball. Walker ended up on third on what would be an error charged to Nieuwenhuis. Clearly, the play belonged to the center fielder. Kirk called for it all the way, but Baxter went for the ball anyway.
One batter later, Clint Barmes hit a sac fly to right to give the Pirates the lead.
Just another routine crushing defeat for the Mets. They’re used to this by now, right?
The Mets continue their series against the Pirates on Tuesday at 7:05 EDT at PNC Park.
141 comments
srt
5/21/2012-10:24pm at 10:24 pm (UTC -4)
Much Fail to go around in this game tonight.
Johan made a couple of bad pitches, no getting around it.
This line-up was awful going in, as you pointed out. Think we were lucky to get those 4 runs of Bedard.
Replacement players, 3 rookies in the OF, uncharacteristic 2 errors by Wright = bad defense tonight.
Duda’s throw into home was just off or late by inches.
Asking the offense to come back and pick up Johan and the defense – with folks like Ike and Nickeas up in big spots, well is expecting a lot.
This is starting to remind me of that Houston series……
wanny
5/21/2012-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
how does nickeas bat in that spot w/ risp in the 8th with dan murphy on the bench?
srt
5/21/2012-10:31pm at 10:31 pm (UTC -4)
Terry’s reasoning on the post game when asked that question?
‘You look up in the late innings and it’s tied and you look down the bench to see you’re out of players’.
Meaning, I think, he was ‘saving’ Murphy. Saving him for what, I have no idea.
gategem
5/21/2012-10:42pm at 10:42 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s a better question how does Nickeas and his OPS+ of 38 bat at all in the major league?. Even for a backup catcher his numbers are hideous.
srt
5/21/2012-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
No argument from me on that one.
Stickguy
5/21/2012-10:54pm at 10:54 pm (UTC -4)
I really think he needs to be the one to go when thole comes back..
Prismo
5/22/2012-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Because the Mets have no depth.
Stick
5/22/2012-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
hey, he’s scrapping it out with Johnson and Rottino. a veritable cornicopia of depth!
Stickguy
5/21/2012-10:38pm at 10:38 pm (UTC -4)
this loss really pissed me off.
gategem
5/21/2012-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
Just remember the old adage that it’s better to be pissed off than pissed on. If you watch BBC America just relax and watch Top Gear.
Stickguy
5/21/2012-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
I was DVRing that for a while, but I had to get a new box and never set it back up. I do love that show.
Mr North Jersey
5/21/2012-10:42pm at 10:42 pm (UTC -4)
This loss hurt. With the Mets lineup struggling as it’s been you’d think scoring 4 runs and with Santana on the hill vs a Bucs team that has struggled offensively as well the Mets were looking good to at least hold the lead till the pen came in. But Santana who normally doesnt get run support could not hold the lead and wound up letting the Bucs tie the game.
The offense other than that 4 run inning just couldn’t score more runs. Torres, Davis and Nickeas are just not hitting.
The pen did it’s job for the most part. Parnell and Byrdak got out of the 7th keeping the game tied and Rauch could of gotten out that inning without a run scoring but unfortunately the dropped ball due to Baxter not hearing Kirk call for the ball put the go ahead run at 3rd with no outs and though Rauch got the 1st out the Duda throw home for the sac while close wasn’t close enough and the Bucs took the lead never to relinquish it.
Positive for me will be Capt Kirk’s pinch hit single. Really hard to feel positive about much after this game.
Dickey on the hill 2morrow. Need to take the next to.
LGM!
gategem
5/21/2012-10:48pm at 10:48 pm (UTC -4)
We expected more from Ike, but realistically what did you expect from Torres and Nickeas based upon their baseball history?
Stickguy
5/21/2012-10:59pm at 10:59 pm (UTC -4)
this from nickeas, but not this little from Torres.
starting to lean toward Torres being benched when Bay comes back, and nicky being the one to go down when Thole comes back.
Mr North Jersey
5/21/2012-10:59pm at 10:59 pm (UTC -4)
Tried to keep an open mind with Torres and see what he would do. I don’t think I expected him to hit as poorly as he has over the last 10 games though.
Nickeas I agree didn’t really expect him to hit.
I bring them up as just stating what is already obvious then anything else.
gategem
5/21/2012-11:14pm at 11:14 pm (UTC -4)
Torres is in what we call a basic slump but overall his OPS+ is close to what it was last year.
darknova306
5/21/2012-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
I was a lot less optimistic about Torres than most on here before the season. He’s only really had one good season, and has been pretty mediocre outside that.
srt
5/21/2012-10:49pm at 10:49 pm (UTC -4)
Baxter owning up and saying that’s 100% his fault on that play. Said it’s fundamental baseball and he knows you give way to the CF.
When they asked him if he didn’t hear Kirk calling for it, he just fell short of answering that directly, saying it doesn’t matter – that error was all on himself.
Hasn’t seen the replay yet, he was calling for it, but said that’s no excuse. It’s his job as a LF to know where Kirk is and give way if he’s getting it.
trs86
5/22/2012-8:28am at 8:28 am (UTC -4)
This game to me is on Johan and Terry. One if you are going to be competitive then your #1 pitcher has to hold a 4 run lead vs the Pirates, the worst offense in the world. Two if you are Terry Collins, wake up at times and figure out what the hell is going on. How do you let Little Nicky and Andres Torres bat in such critical situations with Murphy on the bench?
The three errors are ugly but only the final one cost us. That being said, it should have never came down to that.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Not batting Murph there was weird to be sure.
But this loss is 100% on the Wilpons.
I hate being right all the time, but in the offseason I said that going with Nickeas as your number 2 catcher was a clear financial white flag from Freddie.
Nickeas is not a major league hitter, and his defense is vastly overrated.
This team is over .500 using smoke and mirrors, and frankly the fact that they are 22-20 is, to me, a huge tribute to Terry, as he has them hustling their rumps off and believing in themselves, which has helped give them the ability to compete and play far above their heads.
Almost everywhere you look the team stats are mediocre to downright awful, and yet they have not been below .500 all year, in the game’s best or 2nd best division.
It’s 100% on Fred.
This roster has no business being over .500, and Terry’s questionable decision last night did not definitely lose it, anymore than it is Nickeas’ fault that he is not in the minors, anymore than Francisco should be abused after saving 10 of 12, which is better than his career norm.
It is all absolutely on Fred for not replacing Beltran, Reyes, KRod, and Izzy and for having a player like Nickeas as a starter.
This team is loaded with Omar’s mediocrity, and maybe the great performance of St Lucie this year with many of Alderson’s newcomers is the beginning of the true rebuilding of this team.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Stick
5/22/2012-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Fire Fred!
I agree though about Bu catcher, but who knows what options they really had (given that the FA options were terrible, and no clue if the few halfway decent options even wanted to come here).
I don’t tend to buy what a FO is trying to sell. Entirely possible that “we are happy to go with Nicky as the BU C” can be translated to “we tried to find someone better because we also know he can’t hit worth crap, but couldn’t get anyone better”
overall though, yes, the budget constraints eliminated the chances of bringing in anyone real expensive, so you can say that is on Fred. But this team still has a top-10 payroll, and IIRC it is 3rd in the division. So it is not a budget operation, just $s poorly allocated.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Top 10? First three places I looked they were 14th.
With about 94 mil, and of that, 41 mil going to Johan and Bay.
And 15 mil for Wright, which is fine.
So, for the other 22 players, a total of 38 million.
That is most definitely why we have a team of mediocrities and kids—you cannot field a winner by spending 38 mil on 22 guys and playing first basemen at half your positions or more, and having Mike Nickeas play a lot of games.
Not possible.
Stick
5/22/2012-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
you are right. I was off by a few, but in the middle there (something like 8-18) it is really bunched up.
but like I said, it is an allocation issue, not a total spent issue.
Prismo
5/22/2012-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
It absolutely is a budget operation. The high payroll is completely irrelevant because none of that was spent in the offseason (sans our fantastic closer).
kingman 26
5/22/2012-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
But it’s not a high payroll. It is 14th. Directly in the middle of the pack.
And 56 mil of that on three players.
srt
5/22/2012-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Hard to argue with most of your points, Kingman.
It was about the money and nothing but the money – or lack thereof.
Wilpons, coming out of last season and going into this one, were probably very much concerned the upcoming trial would cost and they stood to lose a lot. Maybe even to the point of having to sell the team.
The less debt they carried on the team, the more money they could count as profit when they sold. Therefore, IMO, very little money was going to be spent on the team.
SInce the trial never took place, the Wilpons have to think they’re a little more secure now, even with the debt they’re still carrying. It will be interesting to see how this plays out going forward.
gategem
5/22/2012-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
I totally agree with your observation. Additionally, the Wilpons always had the league’s protection so I don’t think survival as ownership was in question. Compare that to McCourt with the Dodgers where the Lords of Baseball wanted him out of the old boys club. As you can see the Dodgers are in much better shape than the Mets and with new ownership just taking control much if not all of the essential parts of the team were acquired under McCourt’s ownership. Yet, the league did what was best, ahem, for the Dodgers franchise while it did what was best for good buddy Fred Wilpon.
Prismo
5/22/2012-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
It’s still shocking that we went into the season with Nickeas as the backup, who had an OPS of .510 last season. And our third string catcher was…I guess Rob Johnson who no one had even heard of until this season.
This is one of the most oft-injured positions, and we had negative depth. The Nationals have lost something like 2 or 3 catchers already, and they still have Flores starting right now.
Look at our lineup last night, I think we had 4 batters (including Santana) batting under .200. How is that team ever going to win consistently? And Ike didn’t even start!
I’m okay with leaving struggling prospects playing like Ike, and Kirk when he’s not on his game…but to have losers like Torres and Rob Johnson and Nickeas and Cedeno in there who have no future with the team…it’s just useless.
Stick
5/22/2012-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
every team though (less so if they have unlimited resources, but even then to a degree) will have a few duds being carried, and it gets worse when 1/2 your starters are out. still should not be quite this bad of course.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Nah, now you sound like Ceetar.
This is a hugely flawed team that is 22-20 through incredible hustle and clutch hitting, and a LOT of luck.
When Wright slows down and Frankie hits another rough patch, we will nestle into our natural 2012 spot in 5th place.
Still, if and when everyone is healthy and if Young can give 20 starts, they still might fight for .500.
But I still think this is a 75–78 win, 5th place team, which, all things considered, is not that bad.
Let’s hope the guys tearing it up at St Lucie are the “core”–if you will pardon the expression–of the next great Met teams in a few years.
TRS86
5/22/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
How much difference are you guys really talking about though?
You are saying 75-78 wins and I would expect Stick is saying 81-85 wins.
How much of a difference would having Tejada and Thole over these guys make? How about a Davis that isn’t hitting .160? Predicting the difference in 5 or 6 wins is tough.
srt
5/22/2012-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
I’m in agreement with Kingman on this one.
There’s a reason we were predicted to finish 5th place.
Many of us said ‘IF’ they get lucky, they’ll do better than that. With injuries thus far, luck hasn’t been on our side.
Finishing at around .500 is still the best I think we can hope for. Finishing above that? Or actually security a post season berth? That would be outstanding.
Prismo
5/22/2012-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
It’s a big difference.
Thole OPS: .726
Nickeas OPS: .460
That’s a gigantic increase in production, even if Thole’s offensive numbers are average for a catcher.
Tejada has been marginally better than Cedeno, but ideally he’s on the incline, and Cedeno presumably has plateaued.
There’s a big difference between 80 and 85 wins…especially with the 2nd wild card. Not that 85 will likely be enough to win it, but at least we’d be in the hunt (which would just be fun).
darknova306
5/22/2012-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
MF4D, you say luck isn’t on our side so far… I’d just like to say the name Johan Santana. For once, a gigantic question mark for the Mets not only goes their way, but in truly outstanding fashion (last night’s start not withstanding).
srt
5/22/2012-7:15pm at 7:15 pm (UTC -4)
darknova – you are correct.
Don’t even want to think where we’d be right now if Santana wasn’t in the rotation. With Pelfrey down, it would probably be looking something like:
Niese
Dickey
Gee
Schwinden
Hefner
Yikes!
Paul Festa
5/22/2012-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
That’s the thing – everyone was praising Omar for all the homegrown players the Mets have – but they really are mediocre at best. I can’t wait until Sandy’s draft picks and signings start making an impact…in 2020 or so. *sigh*
srt
5/22/2012-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Spot on, Paul.
Omar did draft some very nice complimentary pieces. Stars though? That’s another story, one where facts support we don’t have many……
Stick
5/22/2012-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
that was the big issue I had with the core over at the other place. They were so hopped up to slam Sandy (for their God Omar!) be touting this all home grown lineup, ignoring the fact that it was not exactly a bunch of superstars on the rise (and was more out of neccesity than anything else).
TRS86
5/22/2012-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Stick just out of curiosity, have you ever heard anyone but Alex refer to themselves being in the Core? Poor guy can’t even get Metsie and Bay to say they are in.
Stick
5/22/2012-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
not that I can recall, but they seem to be fine with being honorary members. Or maybe they aren’t quite sure what the core is either?
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
As the season progresses, this team is slowly but surely rounding out to what most thought they would be… A hopeful .500 club.
srt
5/22/2012-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
This.
But you know us typical Met fans……give us a great April and we’re all thinking post season is possible. LOL.
srt
5/22/2012-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Somebody stop me, please……
I should know better than to enter into any debates with Alex and especially Metsie. it’ll just go on all day. I have to stop. Need a 12 step program.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
You really do.
Seriously, you and TRS need to either find jobs which require more of your time or a good hobby.
The time you spend over there arguing with completely irredeemable idiots is utterly perplexing and mind-boggling.
And I REALLY respect you!
TRS86
5/22/2012-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
True, but if I can get paid for doing it then why change jobs? A new hobby maybe but that requires work. Summer is coming though, will be hard for me to be bored.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, good point I guess.
But you have a better chance of teaching a dog to do physics problems than you do of getting those stooges to agree to good sense.
gategem
5/22/2012-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Well my dog was sleeping under a tree and an apple fell and bounced off his head. I’m sure he barked, gravity!
Paul Festa
5/22/2012-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Maybe that is their hobby.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
OUCH!!
srt
5/22/2012-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Ha!
Normally, I stay out of those long winded debates. I do often post my opinion on many stories there but usually that’s it. I’ve seen enough to know that some of it will just go on for days and days and since it’s a debate – no one really has all the facts – it’s all subject to interpretation and opinion. Which is why it never ends…..
Don’t ask me what tempted me to do so this morning…..
kingman 26
5/22/2012-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Joe’s article and comments are utter hindsight idiocy.
And I might be giving him too much credit.
Torres was considered a replacement for Reyes?
The signings of Francisco and Rauch were distractions?
Talk about idiotic strawman arguments.
Joe, Metsie, Bayonne, and Pomes probably share a house together and take turns changing the bongwater every few weeks, and only see women when they watch TV.
srt
5/22/2012-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Agree that argument – or conspiracy theory – doesn’t have much merit. Not in my opinion, anyway.
FO was getting rid of Pagan one way or the other – if Rubin’s sources can be believed, which usually they can.
BP was going to be re-vamped somehow – with or without Reyes. One had nothing to do with the other. There was just no way on this green earth anyone could be expected to believe that trade and/or a couple of FA signings for the BP could meant to be a distraction for losing Reyes.
TRS86
5/22/2012-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Like I said, Joe is a good guy and works hard to run a great Mets site. One of the things he prides himself on is giving a voice to all sides including the idiots.
I personally don’t get into the conspiracy theories but to his credit Joe didn’t really like the trade when it went down either so it isn’t really hindsight.
As for Bay, point taken.
TRS86
5/22/2012-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Looks like Kingman got the boot. LOL.
srt
5/22/2012-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
I spend a lot of time on AA and one of the things that site has going for it – much like here – is the posters usually police their own.
Other than fans of other teams trolling game threads which the moderators promptly dispose of, the regular posters over there usually run anyone off themselves who doesn’t add anything of value and is just being a troll. It’s true that AA is heavily into stats and saber metrics – so if you’re going to debate over there or state an opinion you’d better have your facts to back it up. That’s why you don’t normally see those long winded debates like over at MMO.
You don’t see the likes of a Bayonne or Pomes over there, although they are quite well known to that community of posters as well.
darknova306
5/22/2012-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
I believe the word you’re looking for with Bayonne and Pomes is ‘infamous’ :p Just gotta ignore anything those mongos have to say.
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
I could resist. haha…
Bayonne Mets Fan “he adds NOTHING, and is an embarrassment to the blog he represents and admits he does this for kicks. He should just be banned”
5/22/12 11:12 am
#
Bayonne Mets Fan “Kingman has to be one of the worst posters to visit this site”
5/22/12 11:12 am
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
couldn’t. couldn’t resist.
Prismo
5/22/2012-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
This one’s pretty funny:
“Looks like Kingman got the boot, LOL. He deserved it.”
Wait…TRS said that. >:)
Stick
5/22/2012-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
I wish I had seen the comment before it got deleted. Just for curiousity sake.
gategem
5/22/2012-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
LMAO
srt
5/22/2012-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
What the????
‘Oh and did you notice that that the other blog has copied this site’s format for it’s home page?’
‘Crazy, after all these years’, is playing in my head right about now.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
All I can say is banning me while allowing Bayonne to stay is simply hilarious.
Hey, I only went because MF4D basically dared me to!
A joke site, and an utter waste of time.
There is absolutely nothing there that cannot be gotten on a higher level by visiting here, Metsblog, and the Ledger, and that comments page is literally a zoo dominated by four children who need lives even worse than the Mets need speed, power, and more pitching.
TRS86
5/22/2012-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
If I were you Kingman, I would actually read some of the articles there and not the comment section and then you would see why it’s a quality site. You might disagree with Joe’s opinion there, as do I, but their coverage is very good and they do bring a lot of interesting ideas to the table. They have both extremes of authors for sure as Jessup would actually be sent packing here as being a more annoying version of Ceetar with less intelligence.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, I apologize again.
My whole thing was spurred on by Joe’s utterly ridiculous article about Torres being seen as a replacement for Reyes.
That’s crazy, pure and simple.
Jessep
5/22/2012-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
Hey trs: Thanks for mentioning me on your website. I’m not sure what I have to do with anything related to this website. I’ve never publicly said a word about your site. Yet you need to mention my name, to what? Make yourself look better?
You know, you guys show up to MMO and try and create some sort of internet turf war and then run back here and talk crap about all of us. You talk about Bayonne, you’ve talked about Joe and now you talk about me.
The truth? As annoying as I may find Bayonne, you’d do anything to have readers like him that are loyal and come to the site daily.
I’m reading through this comment section and seeing very familiar names.
You may take swipes at guys like Bayonne, Alex, Joe or myself… but the truth is with that attitude and strategy, you’ll never be as successful as a website as MMO is. You’ll never have as good a relationship with the Mets as MMO does, and you’ll never have the quality of authors that MMO does because people will just see you as a small group that tries to infiltrate and insult other sites to further their own clicks.
You all need to focus on the Mets, and the Real Dirty Mets Blog rather than worrying about what happens over at MMO.
Next time you’d like to mention me in passing, do so in a forum where you know I will read it, instead of forcing me to come to a website I find to be minor league.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
MMO is successful IN SPITE of Bayonne.
There are undoubtedly countless adults who would never be a part of that comment community due to the handful of folks who dominate it in such a ridiculous way.
This site would NEVER allow someone like Bayonne to conduct himself in that manner here for ten minutes.
And quantity and quality are often VERY different things.
Jessep
5/22/2012-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
You mean in the manner in which you conducted yourself today?
Sorry but the holier than thou attitude went out the window with your rants today. You can dislike Bayonne, but that doesn’t excuse your actions.
Bayonne comments less on articles and more on the shoutbox. In most instances, you’ll get 1 or 2 comments back from BMF in the blog. So he only impacts the content as much as you want him to.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
No chance this site ever spends five minutes being like your comment section chief.
If you read comment threads here, you will see a generally intelligent, polite, respectful group of adults exchanging reasonable ideas.
Comment boards like yours bring out the worst in me; that won’t ever happen here.
There’s no “core” here–just grownups.
Jessep
5/22/2012-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman: I’m not sure how you can take swipes at MMO’s comment section when you have contributed to the problem yourself.
I’m also not sure how you can say “If you read comment threads here, you will see a generally intelligent, polite, respectful group of adults exchanging reasonable ideas.”
The reason they are generally those things is because you’re a small group all with similar view points. MMO has various readers with different points of view, and they feel passionate about that.
Focus less on MMO, their posters etc and more on this website.
Prismo
5/22/2012-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
Jessep, to be fair…our viewpoints here are so similar because they are the most rational and correct viewpoints 99% of the time.
TRS86
5/22/2012-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
That being said, you think Kingman and I see eye to eye all the time?
Where is Wanny when you need him or Fongy? Speaking of Fong anyone seen him lately?
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
Jessep, I have probably commented maybe on ten days at MMO, and today was the last as I behaved in a way that sheds bad light here.
However, while I have no idea why TRS said what he did, I am sure he was right on the money.’
I have had many, many intense disapreements with TRS, Prismo, and others here. But we ultimately come around to respect each other because that’s what grownups do. Even if I sometimes act like a kid.
The way some of your MMO brethren behave is laughable. Beyond laughable.
Bayonne is famous in the Met blogosphere for being so ridiculous.
We have a rep invited to every event MMO is invited to. We don’t have MMO’s readership. Yet. But the quality of the writing here is at least on par with MMO and the comment sections can not be compared rationally.
Trust me, my focus on MMO is roughly equivalent to my focus on the Mongolian stock market or the latest South African cricket scores.
srt
5/22/2012-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
I was just thinking about Fongy….I linked back to an old post here in 2009 on Omar and was reading through the comments. There were a few names I haven’t seen in a while, including Fongy.
And damn……I miss Grave.
Oklahoma Met
5/22/2012-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t take your anger on TRS out on this site by calling it minor league. If you could control the need to play “My daddy can beat up your daddy” with the numbskulls over at MMO, you should visit and actually read this site’s authors. It is hardly “minor league”. Actually, I would love it if you commented here more. I used to enjoy your takes before I just couldn’t take the nonsense over there and stopped going. Be mad at TRS if you want, but please don’t slam the other authors and designers, etc. that work hard to make this a pretty nice place.
Oklahoma Met
5/22/2012-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
That response spawned under Kingman’s, but it was meant for Jessep.
Prismo
5/22/2012-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
You get the “game ball” today OK Met.
Jessep
5/22/2012-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
That’s fair Oklahoma.
I am (was) ticked. I don’t appreciate being mentioned in a comment section of a site I do not visit. To me, that is cowardly and done just to get a reaction from friends.
I started coming here very briefly in early February actually and you know why I left?
Because a comment section of a blog or two were solely dedicated to bashing MMO. I still have the quotes to prove it.
That to me in minor league. You may not be, some others may not be, but when you try to go to other Mets sites for the purpose of sparking conversation on your own site, that is bush to me.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you OKMet!
We really appreciate that most sincerely, and for all of my immaturity that is elicited by by visits to MMO, I never even enter the debates about site quality, as I know quite well that the author community here is among the very best in the Met blogging world.
As for the comment community, that trophy was long ago retired by SRT, Stick, Wanny, Fong, NJTX, Hazmet, and the rest of our amazingly loyal readers.
Gategem has more baseball wisdom in one of his pinky toes than a certain “core” has in its entire being.
TRS86
5/22/2012-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Jessup you can rest assured that I did not say it because I thought your buddies would run over here. I said it because I was using it as an illustration of the wide spectrum of authors there. Can’t say there wasn’t a backhand in there but we have already addressed that.
Oklahoma Met
5/22/2012-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
@Jessep. I get it. And you have every right to defend yourself. No issue with that. I have not been on this site a long time, and I read way more than I comment so my opinion here probably does not mean much, but my opinion is that even TRS doesn’t mind you defending yourself. And I was sincere when I said I wish you would comment here more. When I first found MMO I used to click on your name because I thought you ran a blog yourself. That said, thanks for trying to keep it friendly here. LGM
TRS86
5/22/2012-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
OK everyone’s opinion here matters. That’s what we pride ourselves on.
And yeah, don’t care if jessup defends himself or not.
Jessep
5/22/2012-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
Oklahoma: I’m apparently not intelligent enough to post here anyway lol.
But I do appreciate the kind words.
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-3:20pm at 3:20 pm (UTC -4)
I actually thought the mention of Jessup’s name was in no way derogatory, but rather stating he wrote quality articles.
Vinny B
5/22/2012-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
MMO is a great site and I’m tired of seeing it trashed on here, and people from here coming to MMO to trash it.
Yeah we have a lot of heated debates and some comments cross the line every once and awhile, but like Jessep said, that’s what happens when you have a bunch of people with differing viewpoints, and who all feel passionate about them. You don’t have that problem here because you have a small following.
And after what Kingman did today to Joe D, you guys should be the LAST people to talk about “bad behavior”. You guys also complain about the flame wars, but every time there is one, someone on this site joins in, and makes the problem worse.
Oh and you know what I think is childish? Attacking and making fun of other posters opinions to make yourself feel superior, and doing it behind their backs, on another site, so they can’t respond to them – That’s childish.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
Hey Vinny–Joe is more guilty than Bayonne or anyone—Bayonne should never have a platform from which to spew the hatred, profanity, threats, and misogyny that he does.
And “what I did today”??
Give me a break. The “core” on there does that 24/7/365.
srt
5/22/2012-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
Not speaking for anyone else….
Sorry Vinny but Bayonne deserves every criticism he gets. He has no self control. He often responded to my opinions on MMO with personal attacks. Without warrent, without provocation.
He’s currently in the shutbox calling people douches, idiots clowns and telling them to drop dead. He is the number one reason I stopped participating in the shoutbox and why I now virtually ignore any post he makes.
He is the poster boy for childish. Before I gave up, I told him as much. Going behind his back? I think not.
Vinny B
5/22/2012-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
People on this site, and the owner take part in it. So, if your taking part in the flame wars, and enjoying them, then you shouldn’t be complaining about them.
And as for Bayonne, like him or not, does give his opinion and contributes to the site. Yes, sometimes he makes inappropriate comments, but those are only when he is instigated. And lately, the people who have been instigating are on this very site.
So again, you guys shouldn’t be complaining about a problem that you are making worse.
Jessep
5/22/2012-3:53pm at 3:53 pm (UTC -4)
@NJStuck: I didn’t even see the comment til it was posted in shoutbox, and then trs responded that he “doesn’t pull any punches.” Which is why I took it as a cheap shot.
I don’t know Ceetar, so I don’t know the comparison… my reaction is based on trs clearly being proud of his comment and defending it by “not pulling any punches.”
I didn’t know I was on trs or anybody here’s radar as much. My only problem with this site has only been the 2 days I’ve come here, the discussion has been about MMO.
The 1st time it happened on its own which is why I left. Maybe that day in February was just a bad day for RDM, but it left an impression on me for sure.
Vinny B
5/22/2012-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
And SRT, it’s not all about Bayonne, it’s about the attacks on Joe D, and the site as a whole.
srt
5/22/2012-4:04pm at 4:04 pm (UTC -4)
Vinny – I think Joe D has one of the best Mets blogs over there at MMO. I love the content, especially the diversity with the minor league interviews and such.
I just want to make sure you understand that my comment above describing one poster as childish was by no means an attack on MMO. Unfortunately though, those comments do reflect badly back on whatever site they’re posted on.
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
@ Jessup
Noted for sure. Not fun having an “Us/Them” debate. For myself, I float to where I want, tending to congregate with those here, but not bound to one place. Certainly prefer non-hostility, which does tend to happen more often at MMO, but whatever. I can always click on to the next place should that occur. Life’s too short.
Either way, keep doing what you do. I enjoy your writing.
TRS86
5/22/2012-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
Hey thanks for joining us. After all that is my intentions. You want to know why you see so many familiar names? Because we have been around for 3 years buddy. As for a working relationship with the Mets? Maybe I was wrong and should have called you more than just less intelligent than Ceetar. We do in fact have that same relationship and have writers in attendance at blog functions all the time. However, I have no desire for this place to be MMO or Metsblog. Funny how that is hard for you to comprehend. It was built as a blog “For the Fans and By the Fans”.
Now I have already said my piece to you, run back and write one of your click designed articles.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
And that is why you have some of the best writers and commenters in Met Nation right here.
Because this is a great place.
srt
5/22/2012-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
Couldn’t agree more on the content here at TRDM.
Jessep
5/22/2012-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
I just am not sure where you get off questioning anybody else’s intelligence or writing ability.
You talk about bayonne’s opinions and 10 times out of 10 he and I disagree, which means you agree with me… so wouldn’t that make you equal to me in terms of intelligence?
I’d love to know what I have written to justify a backhanded comment to which I’d never even know you said had it not been for somebody from MMO saying so.
I came to your site in February as somebody who thought this community was one as OK describes, and literally the day I came aboard you guys were knocking MMO and JoeD.
TRS86
5/22/2012-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
Does not happen often on here Jessup. The only reason it came up today was because of this. In fact the day you came I apologized to Joe and made our intentions clear. However, because we frequent so many other blogs it does come up in conversation when a guy like Bay is off his rocker.
As for agreeing with you and being annoying or not annoying what does that have to do with agreeing? Kingman and I agree on very little but we sure the hell agree on some of the posters at MMO.
Now if you can move on we can stop talking about MMO on here.
Again, I apologize for using your name to illustrate a point. Lets move on.
srt
5/22/2012-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
‘All I can say is banning me while allowing Bayonne to stay is simply hilarious.’
I have my theories on why the likes of Bayonne has never been permanently banned on that site……
He’s violated every commenting policy over and over again. He continues to do so to this day, but basically confines it to the shutbox as he must believe that gives him some leeway.
TRS86
5/22/2012-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
There could be a few reasons.
1) he tries to let the polar views be heard.
2) he agrees with the polar views
3) Bay contributes much cash to the site throwing his illegal bootlegging site.
4) He likes page views and the ruckus those guys cause.
It could be any or all. Ultimately though it is his decision.
srt
5/22/2012-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
I have no problem with polar views. It’s the personal attacks that are so unnecessary and out of line.
Have no idea why some fans cannot debate both ends of a point without resorting to childish tantrums. Apparently, some take their baseball very seriously. Or their own opinions as gospel. LOL.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
You realize that the lashing I am taking is all your fault, right?
LOL!
I hate bullies who pick on women, and guys who do it on the Internet are a special kind of loser.
Love ya MF4D, and while it might not always seem like it, I am an old-fashioned chivalrous guy. I am still not married because I want to make as many women as possible realize that before I get hitched…
srt
5/22/2012-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
hahaha – Kingman, that is the most unique reason I’ve ever heard from a guy on why he isn’t married. You keep treating the ladies right, they’ll keep coming back, you’ll find it hard to settle down with just one.
My single girlfriends keep telling me that they’ve got a better shot at winning a million dollar lottery than finding a good guy out there. You’ve backed up my opinion that they are indeed out there. Just might have to weed through some losers first to find that gem.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
Oh yeah, there’s a few of us left!
gategem
5/22/2012-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
Kong you’re not married? You can have some of my ex-wives. ‘-)
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
Gate–Are any of them under 35?
gategem
5/22/2012-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
MF4D, King Henry VIII had a way with wives.
srt
5/22/2012-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
I just finished a book about Henry VIII’s reign.
You know…..that was one crazy, scary dude.
But the women who connived to marry him and possibly produce the male heir and be the queen? They were even more insane.
gategem
5/22/2012-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
“Gate–Are any of them under 35?”
Kong in all honesty I absolutely refuse to give a man a shovel to dig his own grave.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
Was it The Tudors by GJ Meyer MF4D?
Great book.
And Henry VIII was a truly sick degenerate.
srt
5/22/2012-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
Good guess, Kingman. You are correct.
I love history. I’ll see something on the news or program on TV that mentions a particular time in history and next thing you know, I’m on the internet surfing and reading for hours.
gategem
5/22/2012-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
BBC America has a “The Tudors” marathon on this Sunday. It’s the Showtime series that basically touches on all the sensationalism of that era. Jonathan Rhys Meyers looks quite a bit different than Sir Charles Laughton did in the lead role but based on the paintings I’ve seen Laughton had a stronger resemblance to the real King Henry VIII.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
That’s TOO funny over there—and TRS—don’t get too dirty from kissing their rumps.
And what a joke from Joe with his poor grammar—I insulted his family?
Never, not even close.
What a joke.
You guys who spend all day arguing with Bayonne, Alex, and Metsie really desperately need better things to do.
Seriously.
TRS86
5/22/2012-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Not butt kissing at all. I wouldn’t allow one of them to come here and say what you did about one of our articles either (especially mine
)
You crossed the line and Joe removed your comments. Not a big deal to me really.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Well, you know what?
I would bet every last cent I have that you would never even CONCEIVE of anything as ridiculous as Joe’s article today.
That’s why this is the only site I have ever or would ever even remotely consider spending any of my increasingly sparse and valuable time writing for.
And you’ll like the opinion piece I have planned for the next day or so…
Prismo
5/22/2012-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
METS BLOG WARS!!!!!
I love the drama – I think it’s hilarious. We’re just talking about baseball here – for anyone to get so riled up (on either “side”) seems absurd.
The fans are all on the same side. We may have differening opinions on how that’s achieved, but ultimately we’re in the same boat.
But again, I think the drama is a lot of fun to watch from my perch. Keep it up.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I agree with you 100% as is usually the case, but I ain’t in no boat with Bayonne.
srt
5/22/2012-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
You know I read many teams blogs site from time to time and there’s always a consistent theme among it’s fans…..
When the team is tanking, the fans start turning on each other. Not exactly sure why that is but it seems to be the norm.
So all we need to do here is have the Mets go on a tear and we can go back to being one big happy set of Met fans!
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
So, yeah… Baseball….
Paul Festa
5/22/2012-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
What does all this have to do with yesterday’s Mets game?
srt
5/22/2012-3:38pm at 3:38 pm (UTC -4)
Nadda thing.
If there was ever a day we could have used a Met day game, it would be today.
So….what new and inventive ways can we attempt to lose the game tonight? j/k.
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
I’m going with 3F walking the bases loaded and balking in the winning run. If you are going to blow up, do it in style.
gategem
5/22/2012-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
Gee, was that what this thread was about?
trs86
5/22/2012-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
On mobile but Vinny I do not bash MMO OR JOE. Only some of it’s extreme commanders.
Prismo
5/22/2012-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
Extreme commanders.
heh.
heh.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
“Commanders”??
Is that a high rank in The Core??
Vinny B
5/22/2012-5:03pm at 5:03 pm (UTC -4)
That’s just seems very arrogant. Your calling people “extreme” because you disagree with their views on baseball. And because YOU feel their opinions are extreme, that somehow gives you a right to bash them?
Think about it: When does Joe D ever bash people for their opinions and say they are extreme? Never. He always respectfully disagrees, and never uses personal attacks.
And maybe you didn’t attack MMO as a whole, but some posters here did . So, when you do that, your insulting me, Joe D, Jessep, Petey Pete, and all of the other good writers and posters on MMO.
NJstuckinTX
5/22/2012-5:15pm at 5:15 pm (UTC -4)
Petey Pete writes some quality stuff. Love his work.
trs86
5/22/2012-6:39pm at 6:39 pm (UTC -4)
AGREED.
trs86
5/22/2012-5:17pm at 5:17 pm (UTC -4)
It isn’t their opinions that make them extreme and if you don’t know what I am talking about so be it.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-5:44pm at 5:44 pm (UTC -4)
Are you unable to see how clinically psychotic Bayonne is?
If not, please stop arguing with people here; Bayonne should be banned from the Internet by whoever might have the power to do such a thing.
Vinny B
5/22/2012-5:59pm at 5:59 pm (UTC -4)
Your attacks weren’t just to Bayonne. You attacked Joe D just because you disagreed with his post. You didn’t even make any counter points, you just insulted him and the entire site.
I guess that’s how “grownups” argue, right? lol.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-6:30pm at 6:30 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry, but I think Joe bears a large amount of responsibility for hosting the truly unbelievable daily war on reason conducted by Bayonne and a few others. There’s no widely read Met site which even remotely compares to MMO for hosting the threatening, the rude, the profane, the misogynist, and the mind-numbingly repetitive folks which dominate there. Metsblog and the Star Ledger are Mensa meetings by comparison.
And from what I have seen, Bayonne runs a site which steals from major musicians by selling clearly illegal DVDs, and his site promotes drugs as well. I co-own a successful music publishing business which pays royalties to everyone appropriate. I can only imagine what some of your other colleagues there do all day.
And Joe’s comments on the Mets considering Torres a replacement for Reyes were absolutely laughable.
Sorry man; and again, I might have visited that site 10–15 times tops.
And rest assured I won’t ever again.
The Core asks TRS every day why he is there—why are you here?
Vinny B
5/22/2012-6:33pm at 6:33 pm (UTC -4)
Read my 1st post, I already said why. Now that I said what I wanted to, you can rest assured I won’t ever come back here ever again either.
trs86
5/22/2012-6:34pm at 6:34 pm (UTC -4)
He was wrong for attacking Joe but let’s not make this debate into something it isn’t. I can’t speak for King anymore than you can for anyone on Mmo. However you have never and will never see me insult mmo as a blog or Joe.
That being said this is the desert you know and unless you think we are an oasis then your bound to be wanting out.
Vinny B
5/22/2012-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
Like Jessep said “the holier than thou” attitude went out the window after what happened today. Don’t talk about how other people behave when you can’t control yourself because you disagreed with Joe’s opinion about Angel Pagan – Now that’s psychotic.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-6:32pm at 6:32 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure if you saw my comments, but I did not mention Pagan.
Vinny B
5/22/2012-6:35pm at 6:35 pm (UTC -4)
oh sorry, I mean the Angel Pagan trade. Just Semantics.
kingman 26
5/22/2012-6:39pm at 6:39 pm (UTC -4)
Nope, wrong again.
My comments were about the idea of the Mets believing Torres was a replacement for Reyes and the idea that the signings of Francisco and Rauch were simply diversionary tactics, and I also said rude things about Bayonne and about Joe for allowing Bayonne to do what he does at MMO.
That was the entirety of my comments, as well as tweaking a few of my friends here for wasting time arguing with the irrational.
And BTW I sent a detailed apology to Joe via email today.
trs86
5/22/2012-6:50pm at 6:50 pm (UTC -4)
Actually it was the implication that the Mets saw Torres as a perfect replacement for Reyes and the conspiracy theories as well.
SaltyGary
5/23/2012-8:29am at 8:29 am (UTC -4)
Holy crap, I go on vacationland look at what happens.
First of all Jessep=ratings.
The guy is a cash cow! The guys from MMO are right. Even though it’s extremely rare that we mention them (besides the occasional can you believe what one said how can they come to that conclusion) they shouldn’t have to come here to see things being said about them. I know I am just as guilty for saying the “why does Joe let that happen” or “Bayonne is attacking people again” but maybe we should use this as a learning lesson and quit the BS.
If we truly believe this is a great blog due to it’s authors and commenters then we should act like it and not go down the path that we always complain about. We also should refrain from trying to always prove other commenters on MMO wrong every second of the day. It’s fine to debate but Vinnie is correct where he says some of us portray a “holier than thou” attitude sometimes (which I was guilty of in the past as well).
The last thing we want is some kind of blog war and create this mega flaming war that would turn our sites into the joke. MMO people should be able to come here and be comfortable contributing just like we are over there. I would love to see Jessep come he and comment once Ina while because he would find that he still wouldn’t agree with most of us, but we don’t insult if we can’t keep up with a argument. So let’s stop being trolls and poking the bears over there and if we do have something to say about them say it over there.
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