Well, I forgot to send out the question until this afternoon, so that’s why this is so late…
This week’s question:
Is Johan Santana still an ace in your mind?
Mrose:
Absolutely.
Kingman26:
Not at all. He is a very good and very smart pitcher who can look like an ace against a horrible offensive team.
Still valuable but certainly not an ace.
TRS86:
First of all, what is an ace? Is it just a # 1 pitcher? Is it a top 10 pitcher in the game? At this point his 2.75 ERA would rank him 15th in the NL for starters. That certainly wouldn’t be top ten but it’s who is around him that makes you wonder. Coming in at #14 is Stephen Strasburg , at #16 is Cliff Lee* . Trailing him also are guys like Halladay, Grenkie, Garza, Wainwright and Lincecum. Keeping that in mind he does in my mind pass the ERA test. His WHIP of 1.102 places him at #14. Again trailed by names such as Bumgarner, Halladay, Garza, and Grenkie. Just a quick look he is 7th in K/9, and 8th in strikeouts overall. To me what we have is a top 10-15 pitcher who has pitched very well to start the season. Does that make him an “ace”, that’s up to the individual but on any given night he can leave no doubt.
Bryan:
I don’t think he’s a true ace, but I think he’s become the de facto ace of the Mets this year, which is something they really need. That being said, I think on his best days he can still resemble something close to an ace.
ConnorUAF
Without a doubt. The ERA (as TRS mentioned earlier) isn’t fantastic, but that may be because of that one bad start in Atlanta back in mid-April. He still has the ability to dominate, even with the decreased velocity. Him not being able to throw 95 MPH anymore made him make adjustments to his game and in my opinion, make him just as effective as before. He is still an ace, and will likely stay an ace for a few more years.
Authors, if you’d still like yours to be put in, shoot me an e-mail.
9 comments
Stickguy
5/27/2012-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
depends on how you define Ace I guess. for the Mets, he probably is, but that is more of a psychological aspect for the team.
NJstuckinTX
5/27/2012-10:52pm at 10:52 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve restyled this post like six times. Basically, to sum up my other writes and rewrites, it does depend on what you define as an ace, but that is a wussy answer. End of the day, he’s the most experienced and most decorated pitcher on this team and at one time was an ACE. Top few pitchers in the league, to me, is what defines and ace. Can dominate on stuff, more than just smarts, but do have the smarts to utilize those skills to the fullest. Lincecum used to be, but isn’t now. Same for Santana.
Figure it this way. How many teams, if you added Santana to their rotation, would be their ace?
Paul
5/27/2012-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
No, he’s not. An ace pitcher can’t be subject to pitch counts and schedule juggling to get him extra rest.
Saturday’s complete game aside, Santana generally doesn’t stay in games long enough to win because he’s too fragile now.
SaltyGary
5/28/2012-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
I’m on the same page with you Paul, but he still carries himself one one, doesn’t he?
Hazmet
5/28/2012-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
So then Strasburg is not an Ace? At least not yet.
srt
5/28/2012-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
Like others have said, this depends on one’s definition of an ace.
TRS presented us with stats and on the face of those so far this year he looks pretty damned good.
He certainly was an ace in the past. Do we wait until the end of the season to see what his line is before we can declare him an ace again?
How about the intangibles? So far he’s the only one of four pitchers who had this surgery to even remotely come back and pitch successfully. He’s had to not only work hard to make it back, he’s had to reinvent himself to be able to pitch close to the pitcher he once was. So far, he’s done a very credible job.
His days of being a dominant pitcher might be over. However, if he continues to pitch this well – getting stronger and going deeper into games consistently as the season goes along, wouldn’t then 2012 be considered an ace like year for him?
Hazmet
5/28/2012-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know if you saw Warthen’s explanation on why Johan’s had success while other Pitcher’s have struggled coming back from shoulder surgery. His example vs. Wang is that Johan unlike the other Pitcher’s relies more on his elbow and wrists to throw his assorted aresenal of breaking stuff where Wang and the other examples rely more on their shoulder providing power. I just hope he can keep it up and stay healthy.
srt
5/28/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
No, I didn’t see that Warthen explanation. Thanks for the info.
That, along with Johan’s obvious smarts as a pitcher, must be contributing to his success. Even without his best stuff, he near always seemed to know how to compensate.
Hazmet
5/28/2012-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Is he an ace? Well he’s our ace, and shall I say a gritty one too. I just had to get gritty into a post somewhere in 2012 so here seemed appropriate to describe Johan’s toughness and determintation in his comeback to date.
TRS gave some excellent stats but being in NY the other measure of your team is against the big bad bronx boys so lets look at their ace CC Sabathia. He certainly is the definition of an ace if you polled the sports pundits and MLB so without getting into NL vs. AL here’s Sabathia vs. Johan:
Both after 10 Game Starts a Few Stats:
ERA: CC = 3.66 / J = 2.75
WHIP: CC = 1.220 / J = 1.102
SO & BB: CC = 21 & 69 / J = 16 & 60
IP: CC = 71.1 / J = 59
So aside from innings pitched which is expected coming back off a career altering injury he looks pretty ace like to me. All that for what it’s worth is he an ace in the traditional sense, well no, but is he our ace well yes certainly. I think of it much in the way Pedro was our ace when he came over from the Sawx. Backside of his career with guile to compete and beat many a club and on some nights still with over match ace stuff, some nights over match stuff only if your opponent is the Pods. But you can’t expect greatness anymore every time every 5 days and sometimes only against the 4A teams. It’s still a treat to watch him work since he works a game like an ace.