So, the 2012 trade deadline has concluded and the New York Mets stood still. If you have read any posts today at this site, you may have seen that I’ve been a little upset. I have been a realest on the subject of Sandy Alderson. I felt that judgments about his performance should be held until the team gets through factors such as limited payroll flexibility, and the Bernie Madoff situation. Today is the first day where I feel it is fair to make a judgment, and my grade to Alderson and the Mets is a big fat red sharpie “F”. By no means do I feel that suddenly the Mets coffers are filled with cash. By no means do I feel the organization is suddenly able to change from a team that had to go into austerity measures to a team that operates like they live in New York City. What I did expect from a team that played very well during the first half, a team that had stories like Johan’s no-no, a team that had R.A. Dickey reintroducing the world to the knuckle-ball, a team that had Wright showing us that he is Mr. Met, is a team to say it’s time to move forward. This was the perfect time to say the storm has passed and it’s time to move on. I am not suggesting that some blockbuster move should have been made, but how can a team with glaring issues in the outfield, bullpen and defense not make a single move. Not one move, nothing.
Let’s take a look at his more notable moves just for perspective sake. I am going to do my best to group them into era’s.
The Omar’s gone, let’s clean the house era (2010):
Granted FA to Pedro Feliciano.
Released Hisanori Takahashi, Oliver Perez, Luis Castillo.
Signed D.J. Carrasco, Chris Capuano, Taylor Bucholz, Scott Hairston, Tim Byrdak, Jason Isringhausen.
Drafted Pedro Beato and Brad Emaus from the rule 5 draft.
For any Mets fan, this was not a typical NY style off-season but the reasonable fans knew the house had to be put back in order and this was a good start or getting rid of the waste and trying to get some flexibility back to the payroll.
The “Jeff I thought the Madoff situation wasn’t a situation” era (2011):
Granted FA to Jose Reyes, Chris Capuano
Released Ryoto Igarashi, Fernando Martinez
Signed Miguel Batista, Jon Rauch, Frank Francisco
Selected Mike Baxter off of waivers
Traded Carlos Beltran to SF for Zack Wheeler, Francisco Rodriguez to MI for player to be named and released later, Angel Pagan to SF for Ramon Ramirez and Andre Torres.
This era was a little more troubling for the Mets fan. We were always told that Madoff had no bearing on the team but then came the claw-back lawsuit, and the selling of 20 million dollar team shares, a bridge loan from Bank of America and the re-working of debt that even made folks at “Goldman Sachs” get skittish. Oh, and payroll was slashed by 50 million dollars. So the realistic Mets fan easily concluded that finances are the key cog in the Mets decision making.
The it’s a new day or is it? era (2012):
Released Miguel Batista.
Traded Omar Quintanilla to Orioles for cash.
So what should fans start thinking now? My feeling is the time for excuses is over. Most fans have waited patiently and understood our team was in a serious financial mess. Shouldn’t the mess be over now? I know they are not packing the house every night, but with such a reduction in payroll, the financial uncertainty gone, shouldn’t they begin to move forward? If they are not going to move forward, then when will they? Tomorrow will be no different financially then today was. In fact, if these austerity measures continue, things will probably only get worse. So I am not suggesting the pitch forks need to come out. What I am suggesting is to pay close attention to this year’s off-season. Will they invest into the team or will there be more excuses why more can’t be done. This off-season should be the true measure of what the ownership and front office is all about.
76 comments
Donal
7/31/2012-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
“I am not suggesting that some blockbuster move should have been made, but how can a team with glaring issues in the outfield, bullpen and defense not make a single move. Not one move, nothing.”
Because a single move would have been window dressing and an insult to us. You said it yourself, this is a team with a lot of holes to fill. There just aren’t enough chips to deal now.
NJstuckinTX
7/31/2012-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
I get your point & I get Salty’s. I’m torn. I wouldn’t mind to see an upgrade to the Catcher, but end of the day, this team isn’t going far this season and we’re going to start seeing more and more of the kids play. I would have preferred to see Hairston get sold on the high to at least get something for him. I can’t see him back with the team. He’ll get a 2 year deal somewhere.
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
Hey Donal, good to see ya here. I totally get your point, but for me I wouldn’t be insulted. I feel that they need to start somewhere. The pen has been so bad and yes Edgin has been a big help, but it would of been nice to get one more guy. Seems like there was a lot of catching to be had, wouldn’t it of been nice to get a decent veteran to get rid of nickeas/johnson?
It is going to take a lot of time to build what we all want, and none of us know what Alderson’s conversations at the deadline were like, but for me it would of been nice to them try to dig themselves out of this hole.
Donal
7/31/2012-4:44pm at 4:44 pm (UTC -4)
Can get a back up catcher in the offseason for just money, not prospects.
Deadline deals rarely work out well for the desperate team.
What was there to trade? Hairston, despite the recent hoopla, wasn’t going to net much. I’d rather keep him and try to resign him while we have exclusive rights.
srt
7/31/2012-5:35pm at 5:35 pm (UTC -4)
‘Deadline deals rarely work out well for the desperate team.’
Bingo. Look at what the Phils gave up for Pence last season. I’m not sure they even needed him, considering they were on their way to winning over 100 games w/o him.
At this deadline today, they wound up dealing him to shed payroll and didn’t really come close to getting back what they gave up for him to begin with.
Some Met fans would be running to the FO with pitchforks if SA had done something like that.
NJstuckinTX
7/31/2012-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I have 2 theories on this.
1) It could be that this will be a nickel/dime-y type organization until they get out from some of the ridiculous debt they have to pay back on the stadium.
2) Alderson, after the ridiculous slide, said I’ll be patient and we’ll see what the off season brings. What he says in the media doesn’t mean much. It’s what they do in actual moves. And really, I can’t think of any moves that would have really been worth it, though I would have liked to see a Shoppach-type catcher picked up. Which I assume they still may be able to assuming one clears waivers…
Mr North Jersey
7/31/2012-4:21pm at 4:21 pm (UTC -4)
This post is good for the last day of this season looking ahead to the off season.
As far as today the deadline now that it has passed it would of been nice to possibly have added an arm but by the same token if they wasn’t going to go big for like a Balfour, Street type reliever I am OK with our internal option of Edgin especially if FF can come back and continue to pitch the way he did the past 6 weeks before he went on the dl. Which if FF does come back does Acosta lose his spot in the pen?
The shoe I am waiting to see if and how it drops is what the Mets do with Jason Bay.
Stick
7/31/2012-5:31pm at 5:31 pm (UTC -4)
Knog was right. There is not plan. they are not building. The team is still broke and the wilpons are scrambling to hang on, so the only goal, regardless of standings or record, is to lower payroll enough that they can break even.
and if everything now is “too expensive”, guess what? in the off season, anything good is still going to be “too expensive”
so then, what is the plan? Just play the crap out of the system (and right now, you have a couple of half prospects that got demoted, and Flores. There may not be another viable ML above A ball). And hope that 3 or so pitching prospects come up to be seaver, koos and matlack?
based on how long pitching takes to develop, that is what, 2016? Maybe?
SO the plan is to sit around, sign some low budget filler scrubs, and hope for a miracle in 5 years? With a 60 mill or less payroll? They really have become the Pirates (before this year of course!).
If they are that broke, and have no intention of doing anything before I am eligible for SS, why the fork didn’t they take advantage of a sellers market and dump Wright and DIckey? Wright is gone, goodbye, anyway. Or are they saving that for the big off season move, since for sure he will be too expensive too?
But man, Murphy at least, and for sure Dickey should have been moved. Dickey would have brought something back.
and yes MF, the grace period is long over. Sandy stabilized the organization, built a culture, yada yada yada, but now someone that actually wants to (or has a clue about) trying to build a winning team needs to take over.
and apparently, new owners, since these guys are done.
Donal
7/31/2012-5:42pm at 5:42 pm (UTC -4)
Too expensive doesn’t necessarily mean costs too much money. Money is easy. Prospects are hard.
And trading Dickey? Ya, that would go over well.
Stick
7/31/2012-5:54pm at 5:54 pm (UTC -4)
that is a big problem. The FO seems to be playing the old game of fence sitting. They are neither in, nor out, buyers or sellers.
either shit or get off the pot. If you are not trying to retool and complete now, then do it right and trade off what you can for decent prospects. Otherwise actually try to improve the team.
NJstuckinTX
7/31/2012-7:49pm at 7:49 pm (UTC -4)
They’d be better suited to try and unload Santana in the offseason.
srt
7/31/2012-5:33pm at 5:33 pm (UTC -4)
First, I don’t think the money problems of the NY Mets are behind them yet. Far from it.
Second, I have absolutely no problem with the FO standing pat right now. They didn’t want to trade the future (Wheeler, Harvey, others) for pieces that will help the team for at least a couple of years to come…..and they weren’t getting any bites on Byrdak…..and didn’t want to sell low on Hairston…….I’m not sure why some fans would have a problem with this.
I’m sure the FO was busy but no trade materialized that appeared to help the club in the future, w/o giving up pieces they didn’t want to let go of. Fine with me.
I’m actually happy this FO had a plan and stuck to it.
Now this off season will be a different ball game. The plan better include improvements, starting with the OF.
Stick
7/31/2012-5:44pm at 5:44 pm (UTC -4)
they could have traded a few Carson types and taken on a little salary to get someone to help out a bit this year. That would have no impact (negative) on next year.
But, seem to have no money to spend (regardless of what smoke they blew), or desire to try and win a few more games this year.
srt
7/31/2012-6:18pm at 6:18 pm (UTC -4)
But what do those type of pieces really add?
And does it make that much difference if we finish with say 76 wins vs. 80 this season?
Stick
7/31/2012-6:21pm at 6:21 pm (UTC -4)
they were still within range.
and it means 4 wins. But if the difference is 83 vs. 88, it could mean the playoffs.
And how about, doing something to keep the fans vaguely interested? There are some fans that do like to see the team win.
darknova306
7/31/2012-11:37pm at 11:37 pm (UTC -4)
They may still be “within range”, but what move could they made to bump the team up in that range to have a legit shot? Anything the Mets have that is worth trading would hurt the team to trade in the first place. They’re not good enough to have a few moves put them over the top.
trs86
7/31/2012-7:00pm at 7:00 pm (UTC -4)
BINGO.
gategem
7/31/2012-5:50pm at 5:50 pm (UTC -4)
The elephant in the room is the Yankees. The Mets are not the only baseball team in town. If they enact complete austerity measures for the next few years they may lose a sizable portion of the fan base. They won’t lose the obsessive fans, such as we are, since for us its all about the Mets. But those that attend games for entertainment will gravitate towards the Bronx and it will not be easy to win them back. Baseball history shows that if you have such a disparity between teams in a city that lasts for any length of time the weaker team ends up packing their bags and moving.
I use the Porky Pig cartoon ending “That’s All Folks!” to shut down all my computers and those I repair for friends and family. It catches people by surpise.
Stick
7/31/2012-6:03pm at 6:03 pm (UTC -4)
Gary, you really need to add the next phase:
“we were bullshitting you all along, and are just going to cut more payroll and shuffle some filler pieces this off season too”
then don’t bother with a next one, because all the Met sites will shut down from lack of interest.
Fred is going to really be fucked when he can’t pay the bills will 1.2mill attendance in a couple of years.
but, bright side, you could finally be rid of Jeffy!
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-7:21pm at 7:21 pm (UTC -4)
What’s been killing me all day, is I think of the posts that Joe D over at MMO have written lately and even some of the comments by more of the venomous posters and I keep saying to myself, they may actually be right. It’s those posts that made me want to stop looking over there because I would just get mad at them hatting every day. I didn’t believe it and I was tired of the pile up. I will never agree with the anti-Sandy commenters approach or how a few of them treat people, but after today it’s hard to say they were wrong.
How can you say they were wrong? Take away their bias hate and expletives (just the wild guys anyway ) and what is their central message? It’s that Sandy has done nothing. It’s that it is all lip service.
This is a sad day in a unlimited number of sad days in Mets land. My confidence in the team attempting to get better has been badly shaken and it still seems to be all about the Wilpon’s clinging on to their treasure.
srt
7/31/2012-7:57pm at 7:57 pm (UTC -4)
IMO, they’re not even remotely close to being correct.
I’ve read some in the past few days. I have exactly the opposite opinion. It’s becoming the place WFAN callers go to blog. Seriously, the lunatic fringe.
Bottom line is this:
Anyone who thought Alderson coming in was going to turn this team into a post season contender in 18 months was just fooling themselves.
When he got here, he had the pleasure of dealing with:
- a big ticket LF who wasn’t producing (and still isn’t)
- the most expensive contract in Johan, out for the season
- another SP making 12 MIL a year who was a complete bust.
- a 2nd baseman who was not worth the money he was making
- a SS who was coming back from an injury ridden year
- a CF who may or may not have the knees to stay on the field and was moving to RF to negate some of that.
He made a few necessary moves that did nothing to help the talent needed to field a team – cutting Ollie and Castillo – and still had to find replacements w/o adding payroll.
He added a few BP pieces – some of which didn’t work out – like Carrasco
End of first season – his first off season – he had the pleasure of trying to field a competitive team while reducing payroll some 45 MIL and with the Wilpons facing a billion dollar lawsuit. Remember that did not get settled until right before the season started. The Wilpons concentrating on that, more or less handed him about 10 MIL and said ‘fill out the holes’.
He choose to spend the majority on the BP, which as we’ve all seen first half didn’t much work out.
A year ago he pulled off a brilliant trade in getting Wheeler for Beltran. I certainly didn’t see anything that came close to that today.
He also was able to dump KRod, some of that contract $$ and most certainly that vesting option, before his agent realized he didn’t have the ‘no trade’ teams list.
I think it’s a little too early to be judging this FO and the plan a failure. Those ‘SA sucks’ type posters are short on patience and long on irrational complaining, for the most part.
I for one, am glad there’s an adult in the room now.
I’ll be anxiously waiting to see what the payroll average will be going into off season, if they get the Wright deal done, possibly an extension for RA and what they do to fix the OF. These are the type of issues/moves that should be addressed, to start with.
If nothing is done, if we’re still in the ‘stand pat’ type mode I’ll be right there with my pitchfork to join some of you already wielding them.
NJstuckinTX
7/31/2012-8:26pm at 8:26 pm (UTC -4)
I think that is a major problem that we have. We want results now. NOW!!!
We are seeing basically the same team as when Alderson took over, record-wise, but the issues have changed. Gone are most of the high priced players. The team is younger, but not better. The OF is, well, not an OF. BP is hurting. This is where Alderson will gain his pass/fail from me, is this upcoming off season. With Wright/Dickey/Bay/Santana situations to be addressed individually, this will make the team or break the team (ie, a way long rebuilding period). Does Wright get extended or moved after his option is picked up? Will Santana show better form once back from the DL and if so, can he be turned into picks? Should Dickey get a new contract? If not, is he moved for prospects? Can Sandy play subliminal messages in Bay’s ipod to get him to retire? If he can’t, will he be able to 1. find a taker for him or 2. have the balls to cut his losses and just DFA him.
I like the direction of the SP pitching staff, especially with Harvey (who needs a nick name) and Wheeler on the way, Niese locked up and Gee being more than serviceable. I don’t like the BP. I like Tejada & Davis. I don’t even think we have an OF to hate. It’s just not there. I love Wright, not so much with Murph, and anti-love the Catching situation. This will still be a team in flux next year, but 2014 I think will be good.
gategem
8/1/2012-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
For people like myself now is important since I may be dead or senile tomorrow. But thank goodness the football camps are in full swing and I can turn my attention to the NY Giants.
Another parallel to consider is if you went to a restaurant where the food was putrid and the service worse but were told that if you continue frequenting the restaurant in three years the food and service would be excellent would you still spend your hard earned money there? That’s what most Mets fans are presently faced with.
gategem
8/1/2012-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
It’s probable that Alderson received his orders from Selig and I believe that Alderson is doing a fine job in addressing the problems he was brought in to solve. Kong and SRT have spelled out these issues in detail so I won’t repeat them here. Additionally as has been covered by better authors then me Sandy is economically trying to build a strong minor league base to allow the Mets to be a middle of the pack team while on a budget. I believe this is the path the Mets will continue on until either the Wilpons have totally straightened out their financial problems or they sell the franchise. Middle of the pack is not bad since in a given year if players overachieve and dame fortune smiles on the Mets they could contend for a post season birth.
srt
8/1/2012-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
This.
Well said.
Trs86
7/31/2012-6:14pm at 6:14 pm (UTC -4)
As I said I have no desire bringing in other mediocre players on a long shot and we don’t need more middling prospects for guys like Byrdak and Hairston. Bravo fr not caving to the masses.
Stick
7/31/2012-6:19pm at 6:19 pm (UTC -4)
will it be not caving to the masses when they do nothing this offseason other than resign hairston, exercise the options on wright and dickey, and shuffle a few stiff relievers around?
more likely they trade wright because he is “too expensive” anyway, than it is that they bring in someone of real value.
Guess Fred can save some money this year by furloughing most of the FO, since they won’t have anything to do.
srt
7/31/2012-6:19pm at 6:19 pm (UTC -4)
This.
I was seriously considering a guest post here outlining the opposing view to my friend Salty here.
But then I figured someone would just tell me to ‘shut up and get me a beer.’
Stick
7/31/2012-6:22pm at 6:22 pm (UTC -4)
nope, not here.
But don’t get all worked up this year talking about fantasy trade proposals with Real, since they are not doing anything of interest.
darknova306
7/31/2012-11:48pm at 11:48 pm (UTC -4)
Actually, I wouldn’t mind a beer
4D, I would highly encourage you to do a guest post on that. Having both viewpoints represented in official posts would be a really good thing.
Hazmet
7/31/2012-7:43pm at 7:43 pm (UTC -4)
!@%#@%T&!!##+*(^!!! = Haz feigned outrage, eh.
What’cha expect. Part of the deal coming back for Quintanilla was cash. Seriously, if that wasn’t a bell weather what else would be. The big market Mets wanted cash back from the Orioles in the deal for Q. Not an inkling of a better milb filler player instead but cash.
I’ve been a long time enlistee in Camp Knog and I endorse his view point and have held the same position for a long time. It’s all about keeping ownership at whatever cost, and I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same. After the Madoff settlement I commented on their 500M+ debt still and that the only way to get out of it is to maintain control of the team since it’s their most valuable asset that’s capable of generating revenue if they pull their heads out of their arse. But, all the bridge loans and $20M investors (a number of which were actually shares bought by Fred, Jeff, and Saul if anybody looked) isn’t going to change the bottom line that their finances are still a disaster. That with a slow restocking of the minors which takes years anyway why should we have expected any sort of a deal to be made. Just for the sake of making a deal means nothing. I could keep going but why bother putting more thought into trades than the Mets did or could.
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
Yup he’s been spot on.
In fact I demand a Knog Article!. That’s right I am demanding that he write a 5000 word piece exclaiming “no shit they did nothing you naive hopeful effer”.
You hear me Knog!!!
srt
7/31/2012-8:02pm at 8:02 pm (UTC -4)
It’s been mostly about saving the team for the Wilpons all along. Not sure why some Met fans don’t realize that.
The Mets financial troubles are far from over. We’re not going to be spending any 50 MIL this off season as a result. We’ve all seen just throwing good money after bad is not necessarily the answer anway.
The farm system is in better shape than it was 2 years ago but far from deep.
Would we be in better shape had the Wilpons been forced to sell? Possibly…..depending on the new owners. We’ll never know. The Dodgers certainly seem to be enjoying the fruits of new ownership over there. Meanwhile, the Astros with their new ownership sold just about every available piece and probably have a payroll of about a buck 99 right now.
It’s always been about the Wilpons and nothing but the Wilpons. I’ve seen nothing these past 18 months that would make me change my mind on that.
Hazmet
7/31/2012-8:40pm at 8:40 pm (UTC -4)
The great irony in my household is that before the year we plunked a few dollars down on a small 5 pack. Not a huge investment but figured we want to show support for the team. Yes we know it’s the ‘pons but we figured show support, the owners aren’t going anywhere and in the past they’ve invested in the team and it may take a few years they’ll eventually invest again. Now mind you my wife is shall we say very hard on changing point of views if crossed. As point in case it took me till now to get her back into attending a Met game since the strike year in 199x whatever. So, finally get her back into it and then they go and announce that new owner who I shall not mention who I’ve railed about this year and whalla, she wants nothing to do with them till there is new ownership. So instead of reupping and expanding our ticket pack next year we probably won’t support the team through purchases of tickets, etc.. Oh by the way one of the Mets VP/Director level of Management contacted me after that all played out, but that’s another story.
So here we were ready to support the team again willingly with tickets & merchandise for the next few years even if it is to be tumultous and now there is zero interest on my family’s part. Yes, it’s in my blood so I find it nearly impossible to root for another team even though I tried searching mid year for a replacement. I didn’t watch one inning for 2-3 weeks. Unheard of for me. The only thing I can say is the other team I started rooting for in Pittsburgh is fairing very well.
Anyway, there are alternatives in NY and they are going to find it to be quite a slog back to both respectability and attendance given the predictament they’ve put the team in financially. Really, if I was a kid in NY why would I watch them given the alternative? And that, is their problem.
srt
7/31/2012-8:48pm at 8:48 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t fault anyone for not renewing season type tickets – or not purchasing single game tickets. It’s their hard earned money and they’ve got the right to make that decision.
For me though, the Mets are too deeply ingrained in my love of baseball. I lived through worse periods than this one. I don’t get to games anymore like I did in my youth but the Wilpons are still getting my money I guess in that I watch on SNY and I do occasionally purchase merchandise.
Not sure what it would take for me to turn my back on this team now. Hard to imagine me ever doing it.
Hazmet
7/31/2012-8:54pm at 8:54 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, my problem too. As I’ve said in the past I used to sit in the stand with 3,000 of my other close friends in attendance during the Grants Tomb days so it’s virtually impossible for me to turn on them. Although now somedays I just don’t have the patience to endure their crap, not on the field, but on the management side. Vexxing…
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-8:06pm at 8:06 pm (UTC -4)
The Phis even moved Tuffy Gosewisch, you telling me he was available and Sandy wasn’t on that! WTFFFFF
srt
7/31/2012-8:11pm at 8:11 pm (UTC -4)
LOL. We’ve got one of them in our farm system. His name is Nickeas. Sad part is, he’s our 2nd/3rd catcher right now on the depth chart. LOL
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-8:14pm at 8:14 pm (UTC -4)
LOL what a great name huh. It was at the top of MLBTR and I couldn’t resist making fun of myself.
srt
7/31/2012-8:08pm at 8:08 pm (UTC -4)
Holy crap…..some Met fans are still complaining that the FO gave up on the team this time last year by trading Beltran and KRod? Get over it already.
Of everything you could pick to complain about, these moves should be 2 of them.
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-8:13pm at 8:13 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll agree with you there, and thanks for the above responses. As you stated you are glad there is a “adult in the room” you may need to step up and be the adult in the room over here. Thanks for being that rudder.
Even to this day I am thankful for those moves, nothing but win there.
srt
7/31/2012-8:34pm at 8:34 pm (UTC -4)
I can understand some fans reading about all the trades going on today and thinking ‘why not us’? Hard to stand back and watch it all go on around us.
srt
7/31/2012-8:32pm at 8:32 pm (UTC -4)
And of course that should have read:
‘should NOT be 2 of them’.
kingman 26
7/31/2012-8:24pm at 8:24 pm (UTC -4)
HAHAHA!
Damn, I feel honored, and a 5000-word piece you shall have soon!
Of course there is no plan. Doing nothing–for whatever reason–is NOT a plan.
The plan is, quite clearly, for the Wilpons to keep their talons firmly clutched around the scrawny neck of this team, and to hope for greener pastures, even if that is years from now.
Sometimes it sucks being right all the time, but someone has to do it.
No, I am not calling for trades for the sake of trades, and no, I did not want to trade Hairston for a garbage low A ball player–we have enough of those already.
But cutting payroll by record amounts, not signing a huge number of draft picks–including a 2nd round fireballer–and doing nothing to improve the team is not rebuilding, is not a plan, is not the “adults in the room” being wise, it is just a team totally in the clutches of ownership which remains totally paralyzed by debt.
Not seeing this is the ultimate in denial.
Omar and Jeff came on WFAN a couple of years ago and lied their asses off.
Fred said Madoff would not affect the team and was lying his ass off.
A Wilpon spokeman came on TV and trashed that woman who wrote all about how the House Of Wilpon would come crashing down and HE was lying his ass off.
Sandy said we would be buyers and was lying for the Wilpons.
They lie constantly, and about anything and everything.
Because maintaining ownership is the ONLY thing that matters.
Expansions on this theme to come this week.
And the losers at MMO were not right. Sandy has no money to spend. Alex is not right when he says he is the worst Met GM any more than he is right about anything else or Joe is right with his whiny drivel. Everything being done is being ordered by the Wilpons and based on finances. Spending time at MMO is frying some of your brains. Alderson probably hates every second of his rotten job that he reluctantly took at Selig’s insistence. The idea is to keep spending at a minimum and field a somewhat competitive team. Or not.
Keeping the Wilpons as owners is ALL that matters right now and the idea that winning is even in the matrix of thoughts when it comes to decision making is ludicrous.
Seriously, thanks for the compliments Stick and Haz and Salty; I do sincerely appreciate them.
srt
7/31/2012-8:33pm at 8:33 pm (UTC -4)
Well said. Not sure what else needs to be added.
Those that didn’t believe it at the end of the Omar reign won’t buy into it now either. Some actually believe the Mets are in good shape financially.
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-8:46pm at 8:46 pm (UTC -4)
As articulate as it is, it’s not 5000 words.
kingman 26
7/31/2012-8:55pm at 8:55 pm (UTC -4)
I am working on the other 4800 words or so right now…will try to post tomorrow morning…
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-9:28pm at 9:28 pm (UTC -4)
No pressure, Lol
Hazmet
7/31/2012-8:43pm at 8:43 pm (UTC -4)
I think we were separated at birth….and a few years on my side of the ledger. Rage on my friend rage on.
kingman 26
7/31/2012-8:57pm at 8:57 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you my friend. That is a great compliment.
Fleshing out my rage right now.
Time for some Knob Creek single barrel 120 proof for assistance.
Hazmet
7/31/2012-9:03pm at 9:03 pm (UTC -4)
Booyeah! On random thoughts I’m actually thinking of picking up a used Heartfield Talon 2 /w24 frets. Stock pick ups & tremolo system, etc. I know I know could be viewed as a glorified old Ibanez but they just look like too much fun too pass up.
darknova306
8/1/2012-12:32am at 12:32 am (UTC -4)
Well stated, Kong. It’s hard to deny just how desperately these ass-hat owners are trying to hold on. This will be proven to the unbelievers beyond a shadow of a doubt when nothing of significance happens this offseason.
srt
7/31/2012-8:30pm at 8:30 pm (UTC -4)
To make some of you feel better, you can always console yourself with the fact that thank-the-baseball-gods we’re not Marlins fans.
Now there’s the opposite of ‘slow and steady wins the race’. What exactly is Loria doing? Goes out and buys some shiny new toys to go with his tax payer funded new stadium and barely gives the team 3 months together. Of all the moves the one I LOL the most at was trading for Carlos Lee about 3 weeks ago, only to turn around and try and dump him by 4pm today.
Could always be worse.
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-8:35pm at 8:35 pm (UTC -4)
PEter Gammons posted this tweet a little while ago and I replied:
Peter Gammons @pgammo
In the last 2 deadlines, Zach Wheeler may turn out to be the best longterm acquisition
Expand
@pgammo Thx Peter, but Mets land is still pretty bummed out about the state of things. At least it’s not as bad as the state of the Phish.
In his original blog days he refereed to the marlins as the Phish. You are right SRT, if you ask any sports fan, “Name the team that has the least regard for their fans” and the most common answer will be the Phish.
srt
7/31/2012-8:42pm at 8:42 pm (UTC -4)
Nice – and good to see. As I said, I think the Beltran for Wheeler trade was brilliant. Kept my eye on all trades this week and especially all day today and don’t think I missed it but I didn’t see anything that game even remotely close.
Was kind of funny to see the Dodgers trade for Victorino and a couple of hours later, the Giants for Pence. Kind of reminded me of the old days where the Yankees made a move so the Red Sox had to follow suit.
oklahoma met
7/31/2012-8:52pm at 8:52 pm (UTC -4)
Great, great comments on both sides of the fence. I don’t know where I fall on this. One one hand I’m irritated that no moves were made, but I don’t know what moves could have been made.
On the other hand, at this point, would it have brought in enough to have mattered? I’m not near smart enough to know. All I know if it feels like the Mets are irrelevant, and I don’t like that either.
It’s hard being a Met fan some days I guess.
And seriously, this was as enjoyable a read in the comments section as I’ve ever seen. Salty, King, SRT, Stick (Who i think owes us a sweep still), and all others, I applaud the spirit of the debate and the fact it didn’t turn ugly. Sincerely, well done.
kingman 26
7/31/2012-8:56pm at 8:56 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you!
If you want ugly, there’s always Metsblog or for REALLY ugly, the folks with the bags over their heads are always at MMO…
srt
7/31/2012-9:04pm at 9:04 pm (UTC -4)
This is why I love this site first, middle and last.
All kinds of opinions can be brought to the table w/o that ‘yo mama’ type arguing.
Very good authors, smart posters, humor, great debates – couldn’t ask for more.
oklahoma met
7/31/2012-9:05pm at 9:05 pm (UTC -4)
“Yo mama” type arguing. That made me chuckle. =)
SaltyGary
7/31/2012-9:42pm at 9:42 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for the badass compliment. this place rocks. We all have our beliefs and are passionate about them. It doesn’t need to turn ugly, and we are really glad to have you around.
srt
7/31/2012-9:05pm at 9:05 pm (UTC -4)
OT: I see Wright is getting the night off tonight against Lincecum. It was quoted as saying he was given the choice of today and tomorrow and he said he’d rather face Cain. That’s interesting….
Hoping for another solid start from Harvey, even if it’s not as dominant as the first one.
SpencerRealDirtyMets
8/1/2012-12:09am at 12:09 am (UTC -4)
If they bought someone everyone would have said “SANDY IS JUST LIKE OMAR LOL TRAID SANDY”
And if they sold it would’ve been: “MONEYBALL ALDERSON ONLY WANTS TO SHED MONEY.”
Listen, they had no one to sell that won’t be a big part of next year, and they are out of it this year and would be moronic to think otherwise. No one is buying Santana, and Dickey and Wright are under contract for next season so why deal them?
Trs86
8/1/2012-12:33am at 12:33 am (UTC -4)
Man even this place reeks of whining a little today. Did we expect them to make a deal? Even so it would have been a deal for the hell of it but evidently some would have been ok with that just to ave the Mets name mentioned. We have nothing to trade that has any value right now other than a reliever and bench player.
Also if it were just the money then Byrdak and Hairston would be gone. This deadline proves nothing about lack of a plan for the future unless you never understood the plan to start with.
kingman 26
8/1/2012-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
The “plan” is doubletalk and inaction.
It’s not just the trade deadline, it is everything—no moves at all when clearly players who could help were moved, the drastic payroll reduction–and the draft.
And Sandy flat-out lying about being “buyers”—sure, lying for Fred, but lying blatantly still.
Explain all of the unsigned draft picks—how about that hard-throwing second rounder? How much money was that about? 50 Gs?
What is “the plan?” Don’t tell me building through the minors when they failed to sign all of those picks—that is more nonsense.
Clinging to ideas which have been clearly proven as incorrect really is not virtuous. It is just plain silly.
Tell Alex and Bayonne I said hi.
NJstuckinTX
8/1/2012-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Kong, do we know where the debt payment plan is located, for the Wilpons? If the plan is inaction in order to remain owning the team, then we can realistically start to see money being put back into the team once the debt is paid and if they can buy back some of the 20 million dollar shares.
kingman 26
8/1/2012-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
We have no idea, and we have no idea if is changed on a regular basis. And as my coming piece will point out, attendance was 50,000 in 2008 and is 30,000 now. And paid-for empty seats do not pay for parking or hot dogs. Surely TV revenues are down, and the Wilpons I do not believe have paid dollar one in the Madoff settlement yet, and Citi bonds are a very huge issue too.
Bay, Johan, Wright, Dickey, and Francisco will cost almost 70 million next year. What is payroll this year? Not too much more than that.
Think about this, and then zero in-season moves, not signing a 2nd round pick, and all of this together, and there is reason to feel that the team is on a treadmill to absolutely nowhere.
We are going to see the exact same team next year, with a couple of different bullpen arms, a new mediocre OF and a new backup catcher.
Smiling and saying “there is a plan” right now is approaching an MMO level of absurdity.
TRS86
8/1/2012-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry you feel that way but I will say this. Don’t turn this place into what you despise by calling out those who think differently.
For me it was and still is about building around Harvey, Wheeler, Niese and pitching. The problem is that during that time they are also stuck with Omar’s issues and the Wilpon issues. However, I don’t think the plan itself has changed one bit It may have became a little more complex with the failures of Duda and Davis but the plan itself is in my mind still there and I am not sure what could convince me otherwise at this point.
TRS86
8/1/2012-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Based on my understanding about the new draft rules, perhaps the reason those picks went unsigned this year is that it was regarded as a poor talent pool and not only will they get those picks next year they will have more money to spend on them.
Again, nothing I am going to say will convince you otherwise but I said when he came I would give him until the end of the 2013 calendar year and if I don’t think the plan that I, ME, I saw from the beginning is in full swing then I will be right there with you.
NJstuckinTX
8/1/2012-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
It’s a steam release, my man.
That, and our addictive need to play GM, probably stemming from fantasy baseball.
But, as you note, what was there that they really could do. Maybe they find someone on the waiver wire, but it won’t be much of note. I guess we’ll enjoy/get frustrated with the rest of the season and then the fun begins with the offseason…
kingman 26
8/1/2012-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
That’s not the point. Alderson boldly stated “We’re buyers!” and did absolutely nothing.
He is a spokesman for pathologically dishonest ownership.
Any pitchers who changed teams would have helped us.
Believing there is a “plan” aside from the Wilpons spending as little as possible while retaining ownership is silly.
Please explain the unsigned draft picks.
Would “the plan” seem to encompass a serious emphasis on the draft? Like a second-round pitcher with great stats?
NJstuckinTX
8/1/2012-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I understand the “we’ll be buyers” part and then not buying when your team goes something like 1-11, effectively dropping you out of a wildcard race. That point I could care less about. I don’t even really listen to what Alderson says. i just watch what he does and I probably wouldn’t have bought much when my team went in the tank like it did.
And yes, I agree getting some parts (BP, SP, C, etc.) would have helped, but the more I look at this team, what parts are on the team that other teams want? Murphy and not a whole lot more else in the minors. Nothing in the BP. And I’ll say this, I get the point you make on this. I really wish he could have combined about 7 of the 40 man-fodder to get something worth wild in a major league OF, but looking at all that moved, I don’t see much in anything controllable past this year that was moved that this team could have picked up.
As for the unsigned draft picks… that I don’t understand. I know there is a theory about using the un-used signing money as extra cash for next years draft and they get a compensation pick, but for all the hype that 2nd rounder had, he should have been signed. That I have no explanation for.
kingman 26
8/1/2012-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Yes, but salary relief is a major motivator for some teams at the trade deadline, and we were completely out of that ballgame. Because we cannot take on one dollar of salary.
And I simply will not for one second believe the “extra cash for next year” in the draft argument. It’s horsesh*t.
If there is a plan to build, you spend an extra 50Gs or whatever and sign that 2nd round pick–and maybe a few more from the bottom half of the draft.
I refuse to believe nonsense any more.
The plan is Wilpon survival, first, second, and last.
Otherwise, all of the elements of this picture simply do not add up.
TRS86
8/1/2012-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly NJ. It’s like saying that we will be looking for a new car and then your wife gets fired. Situations change. At the time FFF went down and then pen started struggling no one was getting moved. What we also don’t realize that even though our minors have improved, it’s not NOT, NOT deep and there really isn’t a lot.
Just think, the Rockies wanted Murphy for a middle reliever as did the Padres. Yeah, make a move for more mediocrity on a long shot. I guess that would show there is a plan.
SaltyGary
8/1/2012-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
“what was there that they really could do”
This is the statement that has been throwing me off from folks. To me with all the issues the team has, it’s what should they do first, and inaction was not the correct course to dig out of a hole.
A bunch of us are house owners and there is always repair work to do. Do you say shit there are so many repairs I might as well do nothing? No, you ether work on them over time, hire someone else, or say I can’t afford this and let it go. The Wilpon’s are letting it go by their inaction.
You got 2 windows for trades, the deadline and the off-season. If the team needs a catcher, pen help, defense and an entire outfield, it cannot be done in a entire off-season, nore do I expect it to be done this trade deadline and off-season. What we should expect, and I don’t think this is really out of line, is a attempt to fix something. Baby steps was all that was needed.
And sorry TRS if this seems like whining to you but at what point should fans show some frustration?
NJstuckinTX
8/1/2012-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
Unless you find a buyer who is fine with taking McHugh, Familia, Havens, Duda, etc., there isn’t much on the Major league roster to use as currency.
And I have a firm belief that the new draft pick compensation format is pushing teams to put crazy value on controllable players and the cost for rentals has dropped. Hence everyone laughing at Hairston’s price that Alderson asked for. And this team does not need rentals. It’s need several non-rentals.
TRS86
8/1/2012-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
Eh, feel free to whine. Vent all you want.
I just don’t see it that way. I don’t need moves made for the hell of it to bring in mediocre players so unless you can show me where moves could have been made that would not have cost us top prospects or players that could have helped us later when it actually mattered then I will take this inactivity as a blessing.
Remember, Carlos Beltran cost Wheeler. That was for a pure rental. A middle reliever would have cost us Murphy. No thanks. Why do those moves now instead of waiting for the price to drop in the off-season? Heck some of the those guys that were being waived in return for a Murphy may even be non-tendered in the off-season.