I was asked yesterday about the Mets’ second half struggles. ”What’s going on with them?” the person in question said.
Without thinking, I replied, “Lack of talent. They have a bunch of mediocre players left over from the previous front office, and no money to spend on better players because they got ripped off by Bernie Madoff.”
The words rolled off my tongue as easily as, “I’ll have the number 2 with a coke, no ketchup, no mayo.” (which is another story for another time)
I realize the first part of my mini-diatribe is controversial – Team Omar will point to Sandy Alderson’s lack of blockbuster moves (because that worked out so well for Omar), and Team Sandy will point to Omar Minaya’s reckless spending. But the entire diatribe is really directed at the Wilpons.
Minaya – and Steve Phillips before him – spent money because the Wilpons gave him a blank check. They thought they had limitless money because Madoff told them so. But every good party comes a terrible hangover. Every ounce of pleasure is paid for with an ounce of pain.
Now, the team is attempting to move forward. This isn’t the walk of shame anymore. Now, they’re picking up the various flotsam scattered across the apartment from last night. How did that Bonilla get there? What is this? An anterior capsule? Yuck! There are empty bottles of champagne that have “vintage 2006″ on the label, but when you look closer, it’s just sparkling wine from Paul Masson. Your most popular party guests, Carlos Beltran and Jose Reyes, went home with someone else, but for some reason, David Wright is still here, coyly saying he’d like to help you clean up. A couple of friends you just met, Matt Harvey and Zack Wheeler, just brought you some Tylenol and Gatorade.
There’s a lot of work to do, but maybe once the carpets are shampooed and a couple of Glade plug-ins are installed, they can get back on their feet again. Yeah, this place has potential. But how are we gonna get the 800-pound Bay out of here?
59 comments
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2012-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
LoL, I love the analogy you used. I could almost picture it. I wish I was a good sketch artist like Petruccio so I could draw that scene the way you described it. It would of been so funny.
srt
9/10/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
I probably sound like a broken record but haven’t changed my mind yet on the cause. It’s about the money and nothing but the money.
SA and Co. were brought in to save the team for the Wilpons. That was the #1 goal. Being a competitive team was secondary.
Heck…can’t remember the name of the group they brought in but they went so far as to hire them to find ‘cost savings’ to help in their cause. I think that company’s primary objective is to work with corporations on the brink of disaster or one step away from bankruptcy.
If we had an ownership group that could actually afford to own a baseball team this would all be far different.
Stickguy
9/10/2012-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
I will quibble on the “tone” of your comment (not the intent). That is, the changes (SA, the firm) were brought in to stabilize the Mets finances. something that had to happen, and any business in their situation would do. Not to save it for the wiplons. To me, there is a difference (they weren’t like that dipwad out in LA).
The team could not stay solvent it seems at the payroll level with the expenses they were running. so, both had to be addressed.
and I don’t blame the owners for wanting to continue to own. I would too!
And I am still not sure what new owners would do. Say they sold out tomorrow for full market value (a boatload) including all the debt the team (not the wilpons) has, including stadium payments, bonds, etc.
It seems that the new guy(s) would be in exactly the same boat. would they decide to invest $30-50 mill right away (run in the red) to jump start things? Maybe. if they have it. or, they could look at the books and spend what the team can support, until revenues tick up!
not that there seems to be a lot out in FA anyway. Even if they did ramp up payroll to 125, that is what? Brining in Bourne and an expensive SP?would it relaly make them enough better to matter? Or do you think the new guy immediately signs Hamilton, B.J., and any other big name they can find, to make a “splash”?
or maybe worse, make the splash (try to win immediately) by trading whatever close in talent they have for established names to jump start the fans (call it the Miami solution!)
gategem
9/11/2012-7:15am at 7:15 am (UTC -4)
I totally disagree with you. With the signing of the new TV Sports Contract in L.A. they were more financially stable than the Mets were. So McCourt was taking money out of the franchise for personal use. Well M. Donald Grant was doing the same for the ownership way back in the 1970’s, stripping the franchise of much needed funds and destroying the franchise from the bottom up. And do you really believe that if the Wilpons were to sell the franchise they would receive full value and the purchasing group would still have to pay off the debt. A most unrealistic situation but if you believe this is true I have some National Landmarks I would like to sell you.
SaltyGary
9/10/2012-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
And this is why it is so important to change the narrative. Until the FO and ownership change direction, attendance will continue to go down because they do not have any confidence that they are trying to get better. If ownership won’t re-invest, why should fans be asked to?
Stickguy
9/10/2012-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
they are still spending a lot of money at ~100mill. Just not the 140 they did for really only 1 year (a couple others in the 120 range). That had to be right sized, which they did.
now, if they trade wright, dickey, etc. and don’t spend more than chump change on replacements, then that sends a message! Which is we are blowing up and rebuilding from scratch.
but, so far, the only message is the team was a bloated, wildly underperforming mess, and they had to get payroll closer to the talent level to stay afloat. and after next year, they won’t have anything excess (no more bloat to cut!) which is when the rubber really hits the road.
SaltyGary
9/10/2012-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
I completely get that angel with the payroll, but waiting for those dollars to drop isn’t a business decision that will allow them to become profitable again in the short term.
If you look at the Mets and Atlanta’s payroll it is 10m higher than Atlanta’s and Atlanta is head and tails above the Mets in the talent pool for multiple reasons.
If they just sit on their hands and wait then the fans will find other outlets. With on last year of these contracts they need to get creative and they need to show they have it in them. If this is year 3 of austerity, no-one is gonna give a crap about Harvey and Wheeler next year.
Stickguy
9/10/2012-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
I highly doubt the FO “has it in them” to do anything besides tread water for another year. I would be shocked to see actual bold, decisive actions out of them.
I really think the “plan” (as much as there is one) is to try and ride out 1 more year, accept lousy attendance, and try to do a lot prior to 2014. With of course, a decent # of prospects having become established by then to build around/with.
the bone this off season to the fans will be releasing Bay.
TRS86
9/10/2012-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
I am the opposite, I hope that fan opinion at this stage is about 10th on the list of 10 things to think about. I realize that attendance is going to stink but buying flashy players is not the way to build attendance, well not unless you think like others not to be mentioned. The only thing that builds attendance over the long run is competitive baseball. Until the Mets are in position to have that long-term, don’t think a thing about how Citi might be a ghost town in the short term.
SaltyGary
9/10/2012-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Most rational fans don’t want a complete spending boom, but you can’t just wait 5 more years to have the all home grown team. There needs to be some investment and the longer they wait the longer you waste guys like Harvey and Wheeler and especially Wright. You don’t have to attempt to plug all the holes at once, but you have to do something to address weakness or that is all you have.
It goes back to the deadline argument. You said you were fine with no moves being made because there were too many holes. But if you never attempt to address issues all you will have is one big issue.
TRS86
9/10/2012-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
Because what is the point in adding more and more stopgaps? Again, if the plan is for 2014 and beyond, unless something comes up that benefits 2014 and beyond it’s a pointless acquisition. That being said of course someone has to play those positions so if you deem that Murphy can’t play 2B even one more year and Flores will be 2B in 2014 then yeah you need a stop gap. However, bringing in a journeyman pitcher to take Johan’s spot instead of Heffer? What’s the point?
Stickguy
9/10/2012-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
wheeler was a nice move. But they need 6 more of them (to play C, CF, and a few other spots!) to have 2014 even have a chance of meaning diddle.
because other than Wheeler in the rotation and maybe Familia and Meji in the pen, the only other possible change is Flores playing 3B or 2B depending on where he can get by, and what they do with DW.
that is if they just do nothing again, and tread water waiting for these fantastic prospects to finally develop.
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:12pm at 9:12 pm (UTC -4)
Assuming you resign Wright.
Davis, Flores/newbie, Tejada, Wright, new catcher, Duda, new CF, new Rf/Flores….
Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, Gee, Familia, Mejia, Dickey if he is resigned. No reason after 2013 that they can’t spend money.
TRS86
9/10/2012-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Almost all of us said that the Mets plan from the time Sandy came in was to build around the kids left, bring in new kids, bite the bullet for a few years and be ready once all the dead weight comes off.
I know it stinks but the answer is to be patient. Not just make moves because I want moves. Remember the comment Sandy was brought in to be the adult in the room, I still firmly believe that and that includes making some tough decisions that have the Mets long-term interest in mind, not fluff. Fluff gets you Jason Bay.
Stickguy
9/10/2012-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
except they need to actually do something about bringing in these kids. other than wheeler, that has not happened. And the only thing in the system is a handful of SPs and Flores, who is a 3B (of course).
so really, there is nothing to be waiting for, unless they plan to spend big on FAs.
building a new foundation is a fantastic plan, but if you never call the building supply house and order cinder blocks, it is going to be pretty weak!
TRS86
9/10/2012-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Sure they have, they have had two drafts. You don’t have to trade for kids. Example the college catcher, how many years do we think he is away?
Stickguy
9/10/2012-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
since he is in SS rookie ball, at least 4
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:13pm at 9:13 pm (UTC -4)
Uh how is the college catcher a SS in single A?
NJstuckinTX
9/10/2012-9:37pm at 9:37 pm (UTC -4)
Short season?
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:41pm at 9:41 pm (UTC -4)
Lol, I thought he said he was playing SS. Most have said Plawecki would be a fast riser. College kids that make it rarely take 4 years. If he is any good he will be in AAA by the beginning of 2014. They also have another in Savannah.
Stickguy
9/10/2012-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
and if your logic is to wait work him and Nimmo and ceccilini (even Evans), then you better be advocating trading wright and dickey this off season, because they will be retired or useless by the time those guys arrive to make a difference.
and 2014 is just another year of being an also ran. The only thing different is they will be able to slash the payroll a lot lower.
You need to improve the talent as much as you can. And you can’t wait years to try and do it all at once, or hope that guys in the system will suddenly become better than they are.
and what is wrong with stopgap improvements, if it helps the team win more, and at least give them a long shot chance at a “WTF” run to the WC year (like the Orioles).
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:16pm at 9:16 pm (UTC -4)
They are fine as long as your lngterm goal remains and you don’t sacrifice that goal for futile runs when your chances are slim.
Besides, it’s not like they are light years away. If Wheeler comes in and is the real thing and you bring back Dickey that’s a strong rotation.
Wheeler, Harvey, Niese, Dickey and Gee or Mejia/Familia is a Rotation with tons of potential at a cheap price.
srt
9/11/2012-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
‘building a new foundation is a fantastic plan, but if you never call the building supply house and order cinder blocks, it is going to be pretty weak!’
Love this analogy.
I get the Bay and Santana’s contract coming off the books after 2013 argument. I’m not convinced though the Wilpons will spend money even then.
We should know more after seeing how they intend to approach the 2013 season.
TRS86
9/11/2012-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
This off-season will really not show me much of anything. As you said if they don’t spend Bay and Johan’s money then they are as good as dead and they know it so time will tell.
srt
9/11/2012-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
I know they won’t be spending much money this off season, but I still think there are a couple of directions they could go in.
Number one will be what happens with Wright.
Number two will be predominately the OF fixes we need. Are they going to just mainly fill from within? Are they going to make at least one trade?
Going to be interesting….
TRS86
9/11/2012-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
True the Wright and Dickey situations could tell us a lot about the future direction. If Wright isn’t extended by the Winter Meetings I want his but jettisoned. Same for Dickey.
As for the OF, they have to bring in one guy. I am not sure they have a choice. They need two but I will assume they will try to stay in house for one of those.
srt
9/11/2012-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Agree with you on the OF. They have to go out and get at least one guy.
As for Wright…..I have to think if those earlier comments from him implying ‘it’s not really about the money, it’s about the chance to win’,……these negotiations will drag out all winter. If he wants to see some proof of how serious they are about contending in the short term, he’s going to want to see what moves they make this off season – right?
What I don’t know…does anyone here know?…….once they pick up his option, can they trade him immediately after and he’s traded for that salary? We know that option doesn’t go with him in a trade. So if they pick it up in Oct/Nov, is it considered a done deal and they can trade him whenever and that 2013 salary is set and goes with him?
Dickey, to a little lesser extent, will be in the same boat. He’s already said he sympathizes with Wright’s mindset and implied he had the same.
TRS86
9/11/2012-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Based on my understanding, when he signs it there is no notrade protection.
Hazmet
9/10/2012-8:40pm at 8:40 pm (UTC -4)
Enjoyable read all the way around post and comments. So, I’m flipping through the channels yesterday and as I passed by Beer Money they had an obvious quiz where the answer was Jason Bay. One of the clues was “who was the NL ROY in 2004″. And I thought, “it’s just 8 years since he was ROY, and the Met’s signed him just 6 years after he was ROY???” Wow, that was a precipitous drop. Alright, Jason is 34 so he won it at an older age then others but 8 years later you’d think he’d still be posting some numbers and having a career. Just incredible to think of some players that used to have 15-20 year careers regularly and here Jason’s just about done after 8, who’d ah thunk it would be this bad.
srt
9/11/2012-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
What happened to Jason Bay when he came to NY remains one of the great mysteries of life.
TRS86
9/11/2012-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
Yup, I really think he mentally is just not able to perform in NY and if the team could have found a way after the first year to unload him he would have been better off. Now for Bay’s sake I fear the damage is already done.
srt
9/11/2012-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
My memory might be a little fuzzy on this, but that first year….he started off really slow, right? And about 2 or 2 1/2 months in suffered that severe concussion that had him out the rest of the season.
At that time, you have to believe the poor start before he was injured, they were hoping might have just been tied to adjustments coming over to NY. Trading him once he was on the DL would have been almost impossible, even in that off season.
TRS86
9/11/2012-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I know. but as our friends have pointed out, even Crawford, Wells and Rios got traded.
Hazmet
9/10/2012-9:02pm at 9:02 pm (UTC -4)
Hazism part deux: Random thought #1 – I wonder how Terry’s feeling with Wally standing in the dugout next to him. Given the teams dreadful performance the second half it’s not that far a reach to consider that Terry might be gone after the season.
Next: Wrights gone, I see no reason why he’d stay at his advancing years that he’d even want to stick around after his option year. That being the case get ready to trade him next year. I’ve crossed that bridge a month ago. The national media is already playing up the “the Mets have to sign him since he’s the face of the franchise, etc etc almost acting like his agent”. Probably more so that when he’s gone they could bemoan “oh how could they have let him go”. But the reality is, 1) he may not want to stay of his own accord, and, 2) as much as Iove D. Wright what do you pay a guy who’s power numbers are down and is hitting .255 since the ASB. Is he the first half David or the second half David well he’s reasonably in between but at 31 years of age after next season how much is 20 HR, 90-100 RBI’s and a .300 average worth to you? Not the 15ish mil it would cost to keep him. He’ll probably end up in a hitter friendly park and post better numbers and I hope he goes and gets his ring since it ain’t gonna happen here with the years he’s got left in his career – not with current team climate.
NJstuckinTX
9/10/2012-9:49pm at 9:49 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, he’s going to cost, and will decline, but he still can produce. I still want him on this team. But I do see the logic in trading him. And Flores could slide back over to 3rd, or Lutz could get a shot. But if you are trading Wright, trade Dickey too. I would think Dickey’s value is thru the roof and who knows how long he can keep doing it.
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:52pm at 9:52 pm (UTC -4)
Sometimes you need that one veteran hold over that is the face of the franchise to stay while you fix everything else. Committing a few more million to Wright not to play 3b carousel again is better than adding another ole.
Hazmet
9/10/2012-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, I’d love him to stay but I think he’s leaving of his own accord anyway to try to get a ring elsewhere. Why would he have any faith this franchise is going to get it done. And considering Fred only considers him a “nice player but not a star” why would he want to stick around anyway. I’d certainly miss him but I’d be happy for him to get one under his belt.
TRS86
9/11/2012-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know. For some reason I think there is a difference in Wright and Reyes. I have always been naive but I actually believe Wright when he says he loved Ripken and wants to stay with the Mets his entire career. I know that players have to say all the right things but for now I will believe and take him at his word because if there is one thing Wright has always been, honest.
gategem
9/11/2012-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I agree that if Wright leaves it will be all about wanting to be with a winner and a chance at playing in a WS. He will probably receive a competitive offer from the Mets but will jump at the chance to be with a winner. And anyone that criticizes him for it is an idiot.
Hazmet
9/10/2012-10:09pm at 10:09 pm (UTC -4)
Pitchings a tougher commodity to come by, proven Pitchers in NY an even rarer commodity to come by that’s why I’d be less inclined to trade Dickey. And knucklers can last longer once they figure it out. But, that being said anybody short of the young pitching prospects are expendable. What are we holding onto, more sub-.500 baseball?
Business wise I always think back to when Siemens Corp sent members of their leadership in from Germany and said to our employee’s in a meeting where they announced they were closing our facility “we will do this with you or without you”. The rest of that story is kind of interesting in other ways but I learned at a very young age that in business everyone is expendable if it improves the bottom line.
gategem
9/11/2012-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Was that Hell Graphics Systems?
Hazmet
9/11/2012-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Nope, part of their Air Traffic Management adventure. Great company to work for while it lasted. The punch line to their statement: Sr. Engineering for our company stood up and walked out of the conference room enmasse and threw down on them. The parent company basically backed down as a result and while they closed the facility the move by Engineering ensured all employee’s that stayed to help transition the technology received a significant stay bonus and a very fair severance package. They ended up doing the right things but it was quite the scene.
Hazmet
9/10/2012-9:10pm at 9:10 pm (UTC -4)
In closing, the Mets are so bad right now the promotion is kids under 12 get in free for all games in September. Wow, great deal but they’ll do anything to fill the seats right now. I’m waiting for the promotion to be “come park your car in our lot and get 2 free Mets tickets”. Ownership would probably take that deal just to get the concessions and parking gate.
Oh, and the booth’s rag tonight about players spending too much time at the park and that’s why so many players are so tired and playing poorly now – just ridiculous. So I guess the Mets reached this state around the ASB? I get their point but just looking for excuses imo. It’s all about the talent or lack thereof, always has been, always will be.
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:19pm at 9:19 pm (UTC -4)
Why wouldn’t you give free tickets to kids? If there are open seats bring them in.
Hazmet
9/10/2012-9:29pm at 9:29 pm (UTC -4)
I have no problem with it but it’s just a statement of how readily available tickets are. No buzz, no nothing. In ’86 getting tickets was the hottest ticket in town you couldn’t imagine them giving tickets away like this. If they were any good now they wouldn’t think of giving these tickets away. It’s a nice thing but Mets tickets have no value and haven’t for months. It’s sad.
Hazmet
9/10/2012-9:30pm at 9:30 pm (UTC -4)
It’s also such a load of crap as in “have a free ticket for your kid and come spend $100 for parking, food and soveneirs for your kid….”
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:38pm at 9:38 pm (UTC -4)
Right but Of course we have a lot more empty seats now than in a competitive year. Just saying why not give them away so you get a chance at some money instead of none.
NJstuckinTX
9/10/2012-9:43pm at 9:43 pm (UTC -4)
They’ve been doing this all year long in Houston. They’ve also had buy 2, get 2 free. They have sections that you can buy a ticket at a higher amount, but you get all the free concessions you want (minus beer. Boo.). Anything to get people in.
Trs86
9/10/2012-9:48pm at 9:48 pm (UTC -4)
Really a smart strategy, notice all the blogs that got tickets for give away says well… Improve relations while taking people money.
NJstuckinTX
9/10/2012-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
Houston actually said you can bring your own food into the stadium. Went with the wifey, brought subway in with us. Granted, bought 2 brews at $9.50 each… So they get you, one way or the other.
srt
9/10/2012-10:15pm at 10:15 pm (UTC -4)
I heard that discussion and I’m not sure it was as much about making excuses as it was trying to speculate just what the hell IS the problem with the offense right now.
I highly doubt this team is the only one that has their players showing up at the park at 1:30 for a 7pm game.
gategem
9/11/2012-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
My question would be why would a lack of talent required speculation?
TRS86
9/11/2012-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s because of optimism. We wanted to believe that Ike was great, Duda was going to be a stud and Murphy would mold into a 2B.
srt
9/11/2012-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Bingo, Gategem. Lack of talent is a big part of it. No speed, questionable defense, very little power.
Although…..look at Philly. They virtually have no OF, bench players filling in at 3rd and no BP other than Papelbon. But they’re suddenly winning games.
It’s not all their SP either. We’ve got very good SP lately as well (McHugh’s appearance last night aside), but we’re losing b/c we can’t score runs. Other than Howard on the Phils, they don’t have that much power right now either.
It’s puzzling, to say the least.
TRS86
9/11/2012-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Confidence plays a weird role in sports, unfortunately the Phillies have the ability to rely on been there done that as a positive experience. The Mets have a much more negative experience from been there done that.
darknova306
9/11/2012-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
They haz teh gritz?
TRS86
9/11/2012-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think it’s gritty or they hustle more or any of that crap but as Yogi said baseball is 90% mental and the other half physical.
wanny
9/11/2012-10:22pm at 10:22 pm (UTC -4)
Wright better not “leave.” Sandy needs to have a frank conversation with him this offseason and if he has any indication that Wright is not a lock to re-sign then he’d better exit via trade. Sandy’s biggest mistake thus far was allowing Reyes to leave with nothing in return. If Beltran returned Wheeler, I would imagine Reyes could have returned something of value too. Wright certainly will.
Stick
9/11/2012-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
Reyes screwed them twice. If you consider jumping for a big offer screwing them!
the other time, was by blowing his hammy right when the trade market was heating up. Not saying they would have traded him, but there was a chance of some team making an offer that could not be refused.
once he became a gimp (and was obviously hurt in late July when he came back) there was no chance of getting enough for him to make it worth while.