Earlier this month the Mets GM Sandy Alderson replied after being asked if he was looking to make a more significant number of trades and free-agent signings than in years past?
“Well, I think that it’s possible, given what we have, that we’ll be more active in the trade market. But that’s not a given necessarily. I mean, I really do believe that some of our players are on the verge of making bigger contributions. But it’s been two years. We have a better idea now of who we have at the major-league level, who’s coming from our player-development system, and the places where we need to look outside.
“There are a couple of obvious needs that we have. So it’s very possible that we’ll be more active in the trade market, as well as potentially in the free-agent market. But I don’t want to give the impression that we’ll be out in the free-agent market, looking for significant additions. We have lots of payroll tied up in a handful of players.
“That’s a situation that gradually has to resolve itself. We’re not really at that point.”
Add to this him also saying on a radio interview with WFAN’s Mike Francesa regarding upgrading the team’s outfielders and catchers this offseason that it’s,
“much more likely there will be significant change in those areas versus subtle changes”
and your left wondering what trades if any can Mets fans expect?
As far as trades go under this administration there have been 7 trades so far with the majority being minor trades. Probably the biggest trade so far has been the Beltran for Wheeler trade. The next biggest trade arguably was the Francisco Rodriguez trade to the Brewers followed by the Pagan for Ramirez & Torres trade. Below you can review the 7 trades under this administration so far as we wait to see how future trades will evolve.
- December 27, 2010 – Trade between Los Angeles Dodgers & New York Mets
- Incoming: IF, Chin-lung Hu
- Outgoing: SP, Michael Antonini (Minor Leagues)
- March 29, 2011 – Trade between San Diego Padres & New York Mets
- Incoming: 1B, Allan Dykstra (Minor Leagues)
- Outgoing: RP, Eddie Kunz
- July 12, 2011 – Trade between Milwaukee Brewers & New York Mets
- Incoming: RP, Adrian Rosario (Minor Leagues) & RP, Danny Herrera
- Outgoing: RP, Francisco Rodriguez & Cash
- July 28, 2011 - Trade between San Francisco Giants & New York Mets
- Incoming: SP, Zack Wheeler (Minor Leagues)
- Outgoing: RF, Carlos Beltran & Cash
- December 7, 2011 – Trade between San Francisco Giants & New York Mets
- Incoming: RP, Ramon Ramirez & CF, Andres Torres
- Outgoing: CF, Angel Pagan
- July 20, 2012 – Trade between Baltimore Orioles & New York Mets
- Incoming: Cash
- Outgoing: SS, Omar Quintanilla
- August 14, 2012 – Trade between Boston Red Sox & New York Mets
- Incoming: C, Kelly Shoppach
- Outgoing: RP, Pedro Beato
159 comments
Stickguy
10/17/2012-7:59am at 7:59 am (UTC -4)
some minor part shuffling, a salary dump, and a rebuilding dump of a FA fr a prospect. Seriously underwhelming, and really almost violating his fiduciary duty! Given how many holes they have, and how much they need to improve, to have done so little to remake the franchise in 2 years is really sad. 1 guy brought in in 2 years that actually can be part of the future improvement?
And I don’t really believe they are going to be active trading. Just gonna hear more about “no one was available”, “we liked the guy, but the other team wanted too much” “too rich $ for our blood” or “the mojitos in Aruba were so good, I just couldn’t leave the tiki bar to make phone calls, so we will just roll with Thole, Duda, Baxter and Kirk”
once they brought the entire crew back, you knew that low-mid 70s in wins was more than good enough, so why expect more?
Stickguy
10/17/2012-8:01am at 8:01 am (UTC -4)
Oh, and so sad to see the Ynakees fall short. Your heart just has to bleed for their poor fans, right?
big game by the Tigers. Even up 2-0, it felt like a must win, because it is almost a guarantee the Yanks were going to win tonight with CC if they won yesterday, and then it would have been a 3 game series with the Yanks having home field.
Hopefully the Tigers just put the final pin in the balloon tonight and sweep them right the hell onto the golf course.
srt
10/17/2012-8:30am at 8:30 am (UTC -4)
Oh yeah, I got out my teeny-wheeny violin at the end of that Yankees game last night.
Put a fork in them, they’re done.
Yankee pitching has been fine this series – even after losing Hughes early last night to back problems. Their downfall is their bats. Almost to a man, no one is hitting. A ‘collective team slump’, they’re calling it. Yup, we know how that is. Mets looked like that for almost the entire 6 weeks coming out of the ASG this past season.
If this is an indication of where the Yankees are headed, they’re in big trouble for 2013.
srt
10/17/2012-8:34am at 8:34 am (UTC -4)
Most organizations going through a major change – new FO, rebuilding and/or restructuring – takes a good full year if not two to evaluate where that organization is at.
Chicago was in that boat this season. Theo & Co. did announce to the fan base it was going to take a few years to get where they want to be.
It’s no different for the Mets, except with one reall difference: the franchise was broke and the Wilpons in danger of having to sell when Sandy & Co. took over. Not sure why some Met fans seem to discount that entirely and only want to complain about lack of moves or failure in some moves for the past two years.
We all know they’re not spending any monies this off season either. Part of their plan seemed to include waiting to get the last of the big contracts off the books, which happens after the 2013 season.
Let’s see where they go from there…..
TRS86
10/17/2012-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
I actually believe him when he says that they needed time to evaluate the players they had and their current needs. They weren’t going to trade away Duda, Murphy, Thole, Tejada, Davis, Niese, Gee, etc nor were they going to bring in people to replace them. They were going to find out if they were solutions or cast.
Thus theoretically this year they should know more about those things. Like Thole is not an answer, Duda can’t play the OF, Murphy is passable at 2B…
srt
10/17/2012-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
‘I actually believe him when he says that they needed time to evaluate the players they had and their current needs.’
Agreed. There’s no reason not to.
This is the same message Theo & Co. put out to the Cubs fan base when they took over this year.
This wasn’t just about replacing Omar, this was mainly about helping the Wilpons hold onto their team. I’d say SA & Co. accomplished that.
Now let’s see what they do going forward in regards to the health of the team and building a long term competitive team.
TX
10/17/2012-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
I really thought that Pagan trade would work better in our favor. Oh well.
As both TRS and SRT (are they the same person?!?!?
) mentioned above, you generally don’t come into a situation, guns a’ blazin unless you have have a firm understanding on what you have or you have a short list of people you know you want to bring in. Given the financial situation, I’m sure that made that list irrelevant.
Now, though, is the time for bodies to start falling. I want to see consolidation. A Duda, Murphy and Familia for Willingham type trade. Not that trade in particular, but my point is this is the time for stuff to start happening. Will reserve my judgement until this offseason is over, but that is the line.
amazin_jessep
10/17/2012-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
I need to be careful when I talk about Pagan but I agree with you.
I thought Ramirez’ track record spoke for itself. He’s exactly what anybody who hates SA wanted. A creative deal to fix a huge weakness. They were weaker in the pen then the OF assuming they had any faith in guys like Kirk.
So they took a shot. Don’t be surprised if Ramirez is solid wherever he pitches in 2013
TX
10/17/2012-4:33pm at 4:33 pm (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t doubt he’ll have a bounce back year. I hope he stays with the Mets, but I can’t see them tendering a contract at that value.
TX
10/17/2012-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
And not sure about being careful about chatting about Pagan around me. I wanted him gone. I just figures Rameriz would be rock solid (he wasn’t) and Torres better than a warm body (he wasn’t). Then Pagan having a career year, who would have thunk it. I still think it was the right deal at the time.
amazin_jessep
10/17/2012-7:03pm at 7:03 pm (UTC -4)
Well you don’t get called a bigot everytime you have a negative view of a player
I’m anti Pagan but was pro Torres and Ramirez – but my thoughts on Pagan make my racist but my views on Torres and Ramirez are ignored because well… telling half the story creates a flame war lol
what an unreal day
TX
10/17/2012-7:22pm at 7:22 pm (UTC -4)
Pay fools no mind. If Pagan was white and you said that, they’d have no issue. They are looking to pick a fight and dropping the racist card is a cowards way out. It’s prob why they love Omar and hate Sandy. Never mind that we are all human…
amazin_jessep
10/17/2012-8:12pm at 8:12 pm (UTC -4)
Look – I get that there are people that will say anything to start a flame war… but I’m not the kind of person to let 3-4 people jump onto a forum and call me a racist without a reply.
I wasn’t kidding – I almost got canned from MMO because I wrote a piece about Greg P and then wrote an email to every MMO writer demanding he be removed for a post he wrote about Beltran and Omar.
Not my best moment. But for somebody to tell me I’m racist because I don’t like Angel Pagan or don’t think Beltran is a hall of famer? I won’t back down from that
kingman 26
10/17/2012-9:14pm at 9:14 pm (UTC -4)
Your only issue is hanging at a site that is beyond a joke.
MMO is dominated by 3 complete outcast idiots.
Hanging there says more about you than it does about them.
amazin_jessep
10/17/2012-9:37pm at 9:37 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think you need to attack the website to get your point across about 3-4 people. You and I both know the website as a whole is the best there is and that is not meant in any way to disrespect RDM.
I get that you don’t like the 3 people you mention, but they aren’t MMO – there’s just no realistic way to get rid of them
Stick
10/17/2012-10:31pm at 10:31 pm (UTC -4)
they certainly though have become the “face” of the site. sadly.
Mr North Jersey
10/17/2012-10:37pm at 10:37 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed MMO itself is not an issue. I understand Kingman feels otherwise and I don’t really wish to get back into the why I just want to ask if we can agree to take this conversation back to baseball?
Thank you.
amazin_jessep
10/17/2012-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
well that sucks to hear – I can’t do anything about it because unfortunately the email complains MMO get are from them, alwaysamazin (Damaja in disguise), and a few others and they are all about me.
Realistically – today’s BS should have been stopped by somebody watching over the site. You can think what you wish of me – but I didn’t deserve that today. That was a total assault on my character for no reason other than to start a flame war on a slow news day.
wanny
10/17/2012-11:16pm at 11:16 pm (UTC -4)
this discussion inspired me to look at the thread in MMO — believe it or not, the first time i’ve ever visited the site. i can’t believe anyone with a half a brain would participate in a discussion with that group of idiots. more surprising that authors from this site, who participated in blowing up mattsblog with some of the very same idiots, would be over there re-living old times.
the attack on jessep seemed completely out of left field but par for the course for the alexes of the world.
and the premise of the whole blog entry, which requires you to simply accept as fact that there is some kind of relationship between the trade values of ike davis and peter bourjos is equally ridiculous.
srt
10/18/2012-7:37am at 7:37 am (UTC -4)
The premise of that blog entry – Bourjos for Ike – is just more of the same we always see every off season from many blogs. I think the reason you see more off the wall type entries at MMO is simply b/c they seem to have a boatload of authors. And everyone has an opinion.
I’m waiting for TRS’s off season posts on trades. He’s always good for a couple of those. Me…I suck at those type of propositions.
But hey…..from what I’m reading it’s a foregone conclusion ARod will likely be traded this off season, as long as he waves his no trade clause. Sounds like that honeymoon is long over. And no….I don’t want to see him in orange and blue.
TRS86
10/18/2012-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
Of course I completely disagree with Kingman, we all have our faults I guess but besides here I am going to go somwhere and at least the articles are inspiring 90% of the time at MMO instead of what I am subjected to at our former home. Both have commenters to bring them down but unfortunately at MMO, if this new wave of commenters crapping on and on about race and double standards doesn’t leave then most others will.
TRS86
10/18/2012-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
Man SRT put me on the spot again too. You know I have came up with a few already.
Two major ones involving Dickey and Wright and then one lesser one with the Dbacks for Young and Parra. However, this off-season will be tough until we know what they are doing with Wright and Dickey. After that it makes the trade proposals much easier.
IF they re-sign Wright for 5 or more years then there is some movement in the minors that is necessary. You don’t need Aderlin and Wilmer in that case with Ike already on 1B.
srt
10/18/2012-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
I agree TRS….no sense in speculating about trades right now until we know what happens with Wright going forward.
If they sign him, the money landscape will be completely different then if they don’t and of course, trading him then will open a whole avenue of possibilities.
TX
10/18/2012-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Well of course we’ll know more if/when Dickey/Wright re-sign. Silly rabbits.
I still say Toronto is the place to trade Dickey to. There are rumors (I know, rumors…) that Tampa Bay could trade price to Toronto as they probably can’t afford to sign him and Toronto is looking for top tier pitching. That is where I think you strike. They have depth (and young depth) at catcher. I really have to find out a decent analysis on the rest of their minor leagues, as if you can’t snag d’Arnaud, I’m sure you could get a higher OF prospect and JP. If not more. They also have a decent amount of SP for the 4-5 spots. You could, in theory, get a back end rotation guy, d’Arnaud and a better than decent OF prospect for Dickey and a throw in. Then Dickey could more easily tackle his next adventure of hiking to the north pole.
amazin_jessep
10/18/2012-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
wanny: I do appreciate that. I promise I have 0 intention in participating in discussions like that – but when people take me not liking a player and purposely change the context to talk about race and call me a racist, I have to respond.
You can say anything you want about me in terms of baseball – disagree with me at your own risk lol… but jumping into a discussion claiming I am racist because I didn’t like Pagan, didn’t want Reyes for 6 years and don’t think Beltran is a HOF right now doesn’t make me a racist…. it’s embarrassing to even bring it to the table.
I 100% agree with you that if the same people are bringing up the same stuff over and over it takes away from the site. I wish there was a way to keep them out, but there isn’t.
TRS86
10/18/2012-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
This is gonna get mixed up here TX but I can’t see any reason Toronto would trade for one year of Dickey. They aren’t that close to competing. As I said before the natural fit has to be Texas, TX…. LOL.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
“i can’t believe anyone with a half a brain would participate in a discussion with that group of idiots. more surprising that authors from this site, who participated in blowing up mattsblog with some of the very same idiots, would be over there re-living old times.’
As usual, Wanny comes off as the most intelligent and serious adult in the room.
MMO is most definitely not the “best” at anything, aside from promoting the agenda of a “Core” of people who are utterly ridiculous and can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Like all amateur fan-run blogs, MMO has some outstanding content, and a lot of silly stuff written by fans. MMO’s outstanding feature is the ridiculous daily flame wars which it hosts in the comment section.
I chose to go back to Metsblog when the core of TRDMB decided to go to MMO. While Metsblog indeed has its fools as well, Metsblog, due to the volume of people, also has a load of intelligent, reasonable people, and the folks like the MMO Core are roundly mocked, and, when they get too out of hand, are banned.
And PS—One of the new folks at MMO is there for one reason–he was banned at Metsblog.
amazin_jessep
10/18/2012-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
ha jeez, which person is that (the one recently banned from MB)?
“MMO is most definitely not the “best” at anything, aside from promoting the agenda of a “Core” of people who are utterly ridiculous and can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Like all amateur fan-run blogs, MMO has some outstanding content, and a lot of silly stuff written by fans”
Oh I must be your favorite writer then huh lol
Do I ever get mocked at MetsBlog? I never go there, not for any good reason maybe I should…
TRS86
10/18/2012-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Again, Kingman sorry but I do not share your opinion. The quality of 90% of the articles are so much higher at MMO than MB that it is really embarrassing for MB.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Well, while I did have a decent relationship with him and would prefer if you do not mention this over there, as, despite his obsession with race, I think he is actually intelligent and reasonable about every OTHER topic, it is Damaja.
Jessep, I do not know your articles enough to judge, and really, from what I have seen of your comments, you seem intelligent and thoughtful.
I guess, for me, I just cannot see how the folks here (TRS, Stick, Gary, NJTX, MF4D/SRT, Mr. NJ) can stand being around the three core guys over there. I just do not get it. I enjoy debating about the Mets, and enjoyed Metsblog for a few years until we all got banned and founded this site.
I will never spend much time at MMO due to the nature of the comment section being dominated by those folks. For me, it is the comment section I come to blogs for; Metsblog/ESPN/The Ledger in-season have all of the news I need, and frankly I try to avoid reading the blog articles except here–the overwhelming majority–including mine here–are just non-pro fans giving their opinions.
I truly enjoy the give-and-take with intelligent, thoughtful fans. I feel like I learn more in the comment sections about baseball than anywhere else. I loved the back-and-forth with the folks here, and I have returned to Metsblog with a different name because there are so many folks there.
The Metsblog comment section is very good. Sure there are jokers, but there are far outnumbered by the reasonable.
Frankly, as I have told TRS, today it is very similar to how it was 4 years ago when all of the TRDMB folks got banned—there’s a good-sized clique of folks who really like to debate baseball and who often carry on their own cool conversations.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Truthfully TRS, I am not qualified to judge. I didn’t say Metsblog’s articles were better. I really just read the headlines at Metsblog to get the news, and I totally agree that the MB articles are mediocrity on parade, especially when one considers the writing, fact-checking, etc.
Perhaps you are not aware of this, but when Tejada was hurt tripping over first base, Metsblog posted that he was hurt “diving” into first, and posted it again and again and again and again for weeks and weeks, never correcting it. It became a running gaga in the comment section.
Cerrone is where he is for one reason–he registered the name “Metsblog” first.
He and his fellow writers are roundly and routinely mocked in the comment section for their terrible writing, grammar, and punctuation, and endless mistakes and general lack of knowledge of baseball before the Mets got Piazza.
TRS86
10/18/2012-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
And I honestly can’t judge the comment section on MB as well anymore either because they use Disqus and it is blocked at my job.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
Huh. Interesting.
srt
10/18/2012-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t remember the last time I actually clicked over to Metsblog. I know it’s been months. And the reason I don’t is because IMO it had become boring to me. The same mistakes daily – which they almost wear like a badge of honor. That and their content wasn’t much different anymore than the 4 main baseball sites I frequent daily.
Last time I did take a look I found the comment section to be no different than what goes on, on your larger Mets sites. Many different opinions, but with that same small handful of posters who argue and belittle each other daily, just b/c they’ve got opposing opinions. Since that goes on over at MMO as well, I just find their content to be more interesting – probably b/c they allow the fan base to put up articles, for one thing. Some of those articles might be out there, but at least they’re different….
amazin_jessep
10/18/2012-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Ah I figured it was Damaja but I was of the belief that Damaja also = alwaysamazin.
Mr North Jersey
10/18/2012-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
Some just can’t leave well enough alone. Kingman if you enjoy being a part of and visiting Metsblog. It’s good to have a place you enjoy being a part of the community.
By the same token others should feel just as welcome to go be a part of and visit sites where they like. For some that can be a multitude of sites but there is no need to demean anyone for their preferences.
Personally since MMO does not or simply can not in some instances due to bypass methods silence anyone that simply prefers to push things beyond what some would deem improper on a repeated basis. I for about a year now have chosen to ignore as best one can these instances when they happen and since I am not under any obligation to read the site I have 3 choices.
1. Simply stop visiting the site.
2. Argue every time someone says something I deem improper with the understanding that I will probably have to do this everyday.
3. Do as I have been for the most part and ignore those instances when someone says something I deem improper and focus on those can conduct themselves in a more adult manner.
As far as Jessep is concerned, in my opinion he did not say anything remotely close to being construed as a racist. Any person with no bias toward him having read his posts would know this.
I respect Jessep’s decision to try and defend himself against such accusations but I do not agree with it because of the following, unless the site makes it clear such things will have zero tolerance Jessep will never stop the accusations from continuing and he will be left arguing with people that don’t care what he says to begin with about something that those that are objective would probably come away that that it is not true anyways.
In short Jessep is being baited and he has decided he must take the bait. Jessep knows that I on more than one occasion have said he is wasting his time and should just ignore those that only mean to antagonize him. Again though, he has made his choice and I respect it.
Now having said this I am asking is it possible to maybe get beyond this here at RDM? If for no other reason than to not bring the issues from MMO here?
TRS86
10/18/2012-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, at this point both sites in terms of viewership trump this one by far and both have their positives and drawbacks that accompany a much larger blog.
The end.
amazin_jessep
10/18/2012-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
Yo NJ – I know I was being baited but you have a choice either let 3-4 people call you a racist on a public forum or defend yourself. Nobody else was really defending me other than TRS so I had to say something.
I’ve avoided the shoutbox now for about 2 weeks and by the way I’m on a 9 day streak of being a subject in the shoutbox lol. I don’t fall for that bait but being called a racist, i’m going to answer those claims if only to defend myself and my name.
just so you know. It actually is against MMO guidelines which is why the word “racist” puts your comments in moderation. The problem is, I don’t know where Joe D is. I haven’t heard back from him in a few days and my feeling is if he saw what was going on yesterday, he would have said something.
“Any comment that insults another commenter or author, will have their comment permanently deleted. Comments are for discussing the topics at hand, and are not a sounding board to vent your dislike of another individual on this site.”
http://metsmerizedonline.com/comment-guidelines
I hope all is well with Joe….
Mr North Jersey
10/18/2012-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
I sent you an email and we can continue this via email if you wish but again I have to ask can we please get beyond this here at RDM?
TX
10/17/2012-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Also, this is slowly becoming “TMrNJ Mets Site” ;-P
Hazmet
10/17/2012-7:47pm at 7:47 pm (UTC -4)
Never heard of them
\m/ ^_^ \m/
Mr North Jersey
10/17/2012-8:07pm at 8:07 pm (UTC -4)
LoL for a sec I thought it was TMNT’s site.
gategem
10/19/2012-1:30am at 1:30 am (UTC -4)
BTW I hate North Jersey!
Reese
10/17/2012-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
What they need to do is work with the cards they’re dealt. Right now the big issues everyone demands get addressed are contract extensions for Wright and Dickey. If you made the gutsy move of trading David Wright you would net two best of breed prospects (a’la Zach Wheeler) AND an immediate $16 million in salary flexibility. You’re going to be second division in 2013 anyway whether Wright is here or not. By 2014 you will have Flores available to take over at 3rd.
Dickey would have an even longer line of clubs knocking at your door considering he’s coming off a Cy Young type of season and is only going to make $5 million this coming year. Of course, his off season surgery will scare people away (and will likely spook the Wilpons from giving him a lengthy contract given his age and now health).
Of course, moving Wright presumes Valdespin can play 2nd and Murphy slides to 3rd. Moving Dickey presumes Wheeler is ready to slide into the rotation. That’s a lot of assuming, but they are the kind of bold moves that could get the team moving FORWARD instead of treading water or regressing.
When the dust settles you would have at minimum 3 of the top AAA prospects in baseball and $21 million of salary relief that would enable you to go address the catching and OF situations.
TX
10/17/2012-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I definitely see the mentality of what you are looking to do.
What would you do with that $21 million?
In my Starbuck’s addled mind (they are on every street corner up here), the SP can contend without Dickey, but the lineup cannot without Wright. I would extend him and look to move Dickey, who hopefully would net you a pitcher/OF and a catcher. I don’t see Wheeler being called up until he would miss a “Super 2″ status.
And Spin is not the answer anywhere but off the bench. Probably better suited as trade bait. Murph has been playing an adequate 2B. I’d prefer to leave him there.
As for Flores, man oh man do I hope he can play up here come 2014. Ideally at 2B with Wright at 3rd and Murph on the bench or traded. Time will tell. He well could be the 3B of the future, but I’m not willing to trade the only RH everyday bat out of the lineup for a possibility.
Reese
10/17/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
For Wright I’d be looking for a CF prospect with All-Star potential and a similarly talented C prospect.
For Dickey I would be looking for another immediate-impact OF prospect and a good lower minor leaguer at any position.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
For this team, I would go by the NFL draft philosophy—the very best player(s) available regardless of position.
Really, what positions are we set at? 1B and SS? And neither is close to a star.
Reese
10/17/2012-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Regarding Valdespin, yesterday I did some research and extrapolated his numbers for a full season of production. Did you realize that even when he was hitting .299 Collins only once all season gave him as many as 3 consecutive starts? How does someone get into a hitting groove when you’re buried on the bench in favor of luminaries like Bay, Torres, and Lewis? He only had 2 starts for the entire month of September and October when the games purely didn’t matter and we needed to see what younger players could do.
Getting back to the numbers, triple his production and he would have finished with under 600 ABs, 24 HRs, 78 RBIs and 30 SBs. He would have walked a mere 30 times and struck out 132. Now go look up Alfonso Soriano’s first full big league season and it’s virtually identical. I’d take Soriano’s career for Valdespin in a heartbeat (though not his onerous contract)
TRS86
10/17/2012-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Now take his numbers just as a starter and extrapolate those for 600 AB’s.
Swing baby Swing should be printed on this guys’ jersey. Sorry but so far I am not impressed.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
I am torn on Valdy, but how can sitting him for Bay/Torres/Lewis be justified?
And on this slow, powerless team, wouldn’t 24 HR and 30 SB be pretty valuable, even with the Ks and lack of BB?
TRS86
10/17/2012-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
As a starter:
.254 .288 .373 .661 with 2 HR, 24 K 5 BB in 135 PA.
That gets you about 8 HR, 106 K’s and 22 BB and that’s assuming there wouldn’t be a normal regression once pitchers know even more about him.
When pitchers had to prepare for him he was plain awful.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Thanks TRS. That does sort of tend to argue against him starting, doesn’t it?
TRS86
10/17/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Currently? Yeah. To me him starting next year would mean a gigantic failure by the front-office at this point. Either in terms of not obtaining a real OF solution or as a result of a trade, again pending the acquisition.
TX
10/17/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Valdy makes Murph look like a gold glove. Unless he is going to put up Ty Cobb-esque hitting numbers, I don’t want him in the infield, as you can hide his D in the OF.
TRS86
10/17/2012-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
You can hide his D in the OF but then his bat becomes a liability.
gategem
10/19/2012-1:47am at 1:47 am (UTC -4)
Valdespin – henceforth I will refer to as “V” for brevity – is what was once known as a bible hitter – thou shalt not pass. I’ve seen many arrive on the scene without the ability to differentiate between good and bad pitches. It’s not necessarily the kiss of death for V. Hitters can mature in their approach at the plate and their initial aggressiveness can be a stepping stone to success. I think fan base and coaching patience is in order for V.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Funny, I feel the opposite about Wright and Dickey, but from a different perspective. The rotation can be great with Dickey, good enough to somewhat overcome an anemic offense. The offense will be mediocre with Wright, and just a bit more mediocre without him. For me, it is all about the contract. A megadeal for Wright will be crippling and terrible.
As for Starbucks up there–an interesting thing to note in studying the Seattle coffee obsession is this—note that in busy areas, Starbucks ALWAYS has the best location—the Starbucks will be right at the corner or at the busy bus stop. Then Seattle’s Best Coffee (owned by Starbucks for about a decade now) will have the next best location, then a few doors or a block down will be Tully’s or some independent coffee place.
My first months there I could not believe it—espresso at Burger King and Texaco stations.
TRS86
10/17/2012-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
I see both sides but I think it also comes down to the fact that Wheeler is more ready to replace Dickey than Flores is Wright and no I don’t consider V-Spin and Murphy as taking Wright’s spot. I also think that Dickey is at most a 3 year solution. So while I don’t want some mega-stupid deal for Wright, something under the premise already proposed isn’t crippling at all.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Well, I am fair enough to understand the two sides on Dickey; but I love–LOVE–the idea of a 3-year deal for him. I am admittedly biased for starting pitching strength and depth.
I just want more change; it’s time for a new “face of the franchise” and Wright’s second half just screams to me “more of the same coming right up!’
Enough already. Let the offense suffer for a year or two. If Wheeler IS ready and we keep RA, then you have a potentially serious bad-ass rotation that can win plenty of games when the team scores 3 runs.
TRS86
10/17/2012-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Again, I guess it just depends on how much they want and how much their trade values are. Kind of pointless to speculate without knowing.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, agreed.
I just pray they sign RA for 3/~40 and get another Wheeler and more for Wright.
TRS86
10/17/2012-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, honestly if they trade Wright IMO they would be foolish not to trade Dickey too. To me if you trade Wright you are admitting that you are at least 2 more years away from contending, what good does Dickey do then besides selling a few tickets and making some fans happy? Again, if they determine the entire thing needs tearing down then anyone over the height of a wagon wheel needs to be slaughtered.
TX
10/17/2012-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
I’d love to see Wright for 5 years and Dickey for 3 for sure. Sell 2 more $20 mil shares to cover the 2013 season and your good to go for an increased payroll!
kingman 26
10/17/2012-3:43pm at 3:43 pm (UTC -4)
TRS, the way I see it is that with Dickey, and if Wheeler is ready midseason, you have a potentially excellent rotation—really, it could be one of the game’s best, if Niese was for real, Harvey is this good, Dickey keeps it going, and Gee simply is a good number 5, and if either Johan has a good year in him and/or Wheeler is ready at some point.
So, to me, with a rotation like that, a pen that has to be better with FF, Parnell, and then some of Mejia/Familia/Edgin/Carson, really, the pitching overall can be very, very good.
So, I think that trading Wright is clearly the way to go—get the best players you can for him, and use to money to shore up the OF/C or just hold it for mid-season moves or to really make a splash in the 2013/14 offseason.
However, I am for slaughtering just about every position player aside from Ike, Tejada, and, well, I suppose the King of Grit, the Duke of Clutch, Dan the Man Murphy.
Reese
10/17/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Thank you for the voice of reason. Wright produced .300/20/93…nice numbers, not even All-Star Starter numbers (SF ballot box stuffing notwithstanding), but as Fred inelegantly but accurately put it, Wright is a complementary piece, not a centerpiece. He should not be paid as one particularly with no other star quality hitters around him. Let someone else overpay and start from scratch with the inexpensive nucleus of Davis, Murphy, Tejada and perhaps Duda.
TRS86
10/17/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
I have heard the argument about Wright not being a superstar so we should trade him. It’s true he isn’t a super star but the idea that just because he is not the guy you build around so you should trade him seems kinda backwards. Of course it frees up money if you don’t sign him but who exactly are you spending that money on that replaces his production? If you are building around Ike, doesn’t he still need a Jay Bruce/ Matt Holliday to go behind him?
Wright is not the problem and certainly can be part of the solution.
That being said if he wants an elite contract or if a team is willing to overpay then of course you can still move on from him but lets not act like that it’s most likely not a step back.
srt
10/17/2012-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I have seen the comments made by Wright that he’d like to remain a Met for life.
I’ve seen articles referencing the Mets would like to keep him for life too, not only for his playing days but as the ambassador-in-waiting, taking over for Seaver.
That tells me this FO is prepared to offer their idea of a long term contract, even if it does include some option years. Doesn’t sound like their idea going in is to trade him.
We won’t really know anything about what they plan on doing this off season until the WS is over.
I’m sure they’re targeting a player or two in the Rule V draft as well.
As to trades…I’m less confident they’ll be much going on, despite their comment about being ‘active’. Not unless they fail to sign either Wright or Dickey and either/or will be involved in a trade.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you Reese, and I am all for focusing on pitching, pitching, pitching, and beginning to build around the solid and fine fielding Ike and Tejada.
TX
10/17/2012-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, it’s a funny place indeed.
I see validity in keeping Dickey over Wright, but to me, Dickey is more easily and readily replaceable, and has a shorter window of sustained excellence. Also, don’t see Dickey lasting more than 3 years tops. I hope I am wrong and they resign him and he destroys the league for years to come, but at his age and the velocity he throws at, I’m not sure he can keep that up.
As for the hitting vs. pitching, you bring up the SF Giants. While they may not have a ton, they have much better hitting that the Mets do. Reducing it even further by taking away Wright would not be good. Yeah, it all depends on what his replacements would be.
And as to dropping 110 million on him, I don’t see that as crippling. It’s only crippling when you have 3-4 of those at the same time, and he’d be the only one once Santana and Bay are gone..
TRS86
10/17/2012-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
It’s only crippling when their performance drops to Jason Bay levels or they are injured more than they are healthy.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
The Giants took a gamble; other than that Alderson has a zero, garbage record here. And this is from someone who wants very badly to support him.
As the naysayers said all along, Alderson is here reluctantly, as a favor to Selig, and will continue to obfuscate until he is able to gleefully run as far from here as he can.
They are not obtaining anyone or anything of note, which is why I feel stronger and stronger that they must re-sign Dickey and give the fans hope of .500+ due to the starting rotation. And Parnell/Mejia/Familia has a lot of pen potential.
But the rest of the team is again going to be thin, weak, slow, and really second rate.
Keep building pitching. If anyone would give a Wheeler-type for Wright, do it yesterday.
No more Minayan albatross deals, which is what Wright’s surely would be.
Waiting for a big trade or trades, when there is zero money to spend and literally zero of serious value to trade aside from Wright, Dickey, Harvey, Wheeler, and Ike is simply silly.
Stick
10/17/2012-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
the problem I have with stockpiling the SP is, where will the offensive help ever come from? Certainly not coming through the system. Trading Dickey has the potential to bring back at least 1 potential position starter to add to the mix.
wright, dump him too, for the same reason. Plus a fresh start. Just have to try and bring in someone for the LT this year to replace him. Sadly, the only guy that might qualify is BJ upton (from the FA pool).
TRS86
10/17/2012-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Right, with no offensive players in the system other than Flores who could just as easily be another Duda or Murphy with no defensive position you have no offensive players. Trying to answer those problems through FA more often than not will get you more Bays.
amazin_jessep
10/17/2012-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
you don’t or didn’t agree trading Beltran for a guy we hope will be our #2 pitcher was a good trade?
If Wheeler is as good as Jon Niese, the Mets win that trade.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-9:16pm at 9:16 pm (UTC -4)
I sure DO agree on that.
Not sure what might make you think otherwise.
Hanging at MMO can fry the brain.
Prismo
10/17/2012-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
Who are you people? Where am I?
TX
10/17/2012-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
We are weathermen (and ladies) in training. Who done you be?
TRS86
10/17/2012-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, I had enough of you last night
Good to see you back buddy.
Prismo
10/17/2012-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll reply to this in a minute, just finishing adding 4D to my binder.
TRS86
10/17/2012-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
Hey you come back here buddy, lets wrastle.
srt
10/17/2012-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
It’s a Prismo sighting.
Mr North Jersey
10/17/2012-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Where? Where?
Prismo
10/17/2012-3:55pm at 3:55 pm (UTC -4)
So I’m going to try to be useful since I pulled a semi-Grave.
By my very loose projections, the Mets should have $30-40M to spend next off-season if the payroll stays around $100M. Obviously I can’t predict trades before then and arbitration cases two years down the road. I also assumed Wright is being paid $18M that year and Dickey is getting $10M. Who knows. But with our the talent in the organization right now, $30-40M could add ~2 good players to the roster, which might get us over the hump. The rest could be spent on the bullpen, obviously.
As for this off-season, let’s just say I don’t expect much. With practically no money to spend, it’s hard to even figure how trades can significantly help the team (since the Mets can’t take on any money). I think next year will be EXACTLY like this past one – pray young guys develop and everyone stays healthy, and maybe we’ll break .500.
kingman 26
10/17/2012-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
Which hump might that be that we’ll be getting over exactly??
Nice to see you man. I am usually here just a time or two a week now and I am glad I visited when you did. Hope things are great.
TX
10/17/2012-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
Hole Camel’s Hump.
Stick
10/17/2012-8:30pm at 8:30 pm (UTC -4)
And pole camels to you too.
TX
10/18/2012-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
TRS, I’ll start it down here to avoid confusion. Yes, Tejas makes sense for Dickey. I still content Toronto does as well. I think they are closer to competing that you think. And I would assume that if a deal is made to ship Dickey to Toronto, they would not do it under the one and done scenario. I would think they would want to have a Santana like window to extend Dickey. (makes me chuckle every time i write that. 2nd grade humor at it’s best).
Honestly, either of the trade scenarios would benefit the team.
TX
10/18/2012-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
This from the “bleacher report”, so I’m not exactly sure the complete validity on it, but they wrote this back in July.
“Even though the Toronto Blue Jays are struggling to a .500 record in a season full of injuries and inconsistencies, that cannot be said for the Jays’ farm system, which is ranking among the best in all of baseball.
The Jays feature a full pitching rotation worth of starting pitching prospects, and they could probably field an entire lineup for top 100 prospects in the game.
The depth in the organization is immense, making many Jays fans believe that it will only be a matter of time before the team is back in the post season, and not a matter of if they’ll ever make it back to October baseball.”
They, like Texas, have depth in the minors and could handle trading for a Dickey type (or Price or whomever).
TRS86
10/18/2012-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
That’s what makes me think they may decide to do it WITH the kids instead of trading the kids.
I am also not sure that other teams might not be wary of giving Dickey a big extension as well.
amazin_jessep
10/18/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
hey guys – a baseball discussion aaaah
So as you both know I wrote about the Toronto trade scenario over at MMO.
Here’s the thing – Toronto’s “need” for starting pitching mostly depends on Ricky Romero. Brandon Morrow is a very solid pitcher but Romero struggled and we’ve seen Romero do much better.
I’d imagine they would be more inclined to bank on what they know (which is Romero can pitch) than what they don’t know (which is signing Dickey and how long he can be effective).
I still think Jon Niese is the guy you look to trade if you want an impact. Dickey & Wright both have contract issues that take significant value away – pair that with Dickey’s age and repertoire and you have a value smaller than what people think. For all we know, Toronto’s GM doesn’t trust knucklers.
There are teams out there I assure you that would see Dickey win a Cy Young maybe and still say “we wouldn’t want him.”
TRS86
10/18/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
I still can’t even begin to think about trading Niese, that is unless we are getting a top prospect from the Jays AND Romero back.
TX
10/18/2012-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Niese certainly has value. I think he has more value to the Mets as a SP than as a trade chip.
As for Dickey, this is how I figure it. Even good 1 year rentals get decent returns. Heck, half a year of Beltran netted Wheeler. Good one year rentals that just pitched at a CY level and is only due to make 5Mil next year… That has a great deal more value. Even if he’s not extended, the team that will get him will have financial flexibility, the option to negotiate an extension should they wish and can go on the short term with him via qualifying offers and if he decides not to take it, they get a draft pick back.
amazin_jessep
10/18/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
right but if Wheeler turns out to be as good as Niese – SF took a beating on the Beltran deal. Teams don’t want to willingly do that. Any team who thinks highly of Wheeler probably thought that was a dumb deal by SF.
I’d only deal Niese if I was sure the return was worth it. Not for young prospects. I’d want guys who could fill in our holes now and for a few years.
So if lets say you included Murphy
I’d want CF, RF, defensive 2B, C – and I’d want 3 out of 4 of those slots filled after the deal.
Then I’d take my chances with Dickey-Harvey-Wheeler-Familia-Mejia-Johan-Pelfrey-Hefner-Any others-Low cost FA like Maholm?
I appreciate Niese and understand losing him would hurt but he’s the only guy that can fix multiple spots in 1 trade. And those spots he’d fix will be harder for the Mets to fix without a trade than it will be to replace Niese.
TRS86
10/18/2012-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
I honestly think there is a much lesser chance of the Mets retaining Dickey long-term which also factors into my thoughts of trading him now while his value is so high.
amazin_jessep
10/18/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Do you think they will sign Wright?
If so, then I think Dickey would take a 2 yr deal with 3rd option. I really do. I think he’s a realistic guy and understands he wont get a 5+ year deal on the open market.
TRS86
10/18/2012-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
I think Wright and Dickey are completely separate by the Mets although Dickey might not view it that way. From some reason I don’t believe that Dickey feels he owes anything to the Mets and will do what is right for him.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
I think they will sign Wright and that it will be a massive error and another albatross contract.
I would absolutely not trade Niese unless it was in a deal for a much better player than Upton.
Dickey/Niese/Harvey/Johan-then-Wheeler/Gee can be a truly great rotation if everything pans out.
I think they should consider the value Dickey has given them and give him three years.
One possibility which seems to maybe not have been mentioned is that they could sort of compromise–tear up the 2013 option, and give him 3/40 or so, have it start in 2013, and maybe everyone is happy. More dough right away for RA, and the Mets are on the line with him for 3 years and not 4.
Mr North Jersey
10/18/2012-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
Where I am concerned I consider Harvey, Wheeler and Niese untouchables. I really like the idea of what possibilities all 3 of them in a rotation may bring but IF they were to be traded they had better be for as you say a return that was worth it.
srt
10/18/2012-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
I’m with you on this.
For the first time in a long time we’ve got some good, young SP depth. It appears to be our only strength at the moment, considering we’ve virtually no OF and/or too many players last season playing out of position.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
Vehemently agree with you both. A possible Mets Big 3 for years.
Add RA for the next few years, and you may have a staff good enough to compensate for other team weaknesses and really propel the team to .500 or better.
Cannot trade Niese for Upton.
srt
10/18/2012-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly Kingman….Trading Niese for Upton is not good value.
RIght now, i can’t imagine what kind of deal I’d be fine with letting Niese go for. Obviously, I’d love Stanton but we’re not getting him for Niese.
Prismo
10/18/2012-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
It’s going to feel good to get the wrath of Kingman on this one; it’s been far too long.
So I think the Mets need to sign Wright. I don’t think we should be afraid of large contracts just because we’ve had some failed ones. Of course that depends on how large we’re talking about, but I think something in the order of $18-19M per season (average) is a good deal going forward. I think the big thing is that we know Wright can compete in NY with the Mets. I don’t foresee him turning into Jason Bay just because he signs a new contract.
We’re talking about a team with a $100M payroll, which honestly should be at least $120M once they turn things around. If a team with that payroll can’t have one highly paid face of the franchise player, what’s the point? I really really really do not think one big contract for Wright is going to hold the franchise hostage.
The Nationals basically did the same thing for Zimmerman that the Mets are trying to do for Wright, but no one is complaining that in 5 years it’ll ruin their team.
Anyway bottom line, I think Jason Bay is scaring fans away from the big contract, but I totally disagree with that logic.
TX
10/18/2012-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
I endorse this post.
srt
10/18/2012-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
I second this endorsement.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
I must endorse the opposition.
kingman 26
10/18/2012-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
Well Prismo, my being totally against this is not really arguing your reasoning—I just feel that Wright (pretty clearly, really) has not been a real star since 2008. He was great this year—for half the year–and pretty mediocre for the full second half. He just has not been the same player from 2009–2012 that he was from 2005–2008. This really is not debatable.
In addition, he has had a bunch of moderate to serious injury issues the last few years (concussion, back, fingers).
On top of that, he turns 30 in December.
So, we are talking about a long-term deal for roughly 18-20 mil a year, beginning when he is 31.
I would argue that this simply is madness. How many deals like this, starting at age 31, wind up good in the long run?
Sure the team can afford it, and hopefully in 2 years they will also be able to afford a lot more, but I strongly feel that the money should be spent elsewhere.
I understand the attachment fans have for Wright, but it is not 2008.
In addition, while Wright does seem to be a good guy and a hard worker who cares, more change is needed. As much logical change as possible is needed. If Wright is the “face of the franchise” then he is the face of complete and utter collapse four years in a row, the face of mediocrity, and the face of 4th place.
I AM NOT saying he is the primary reason, but all things considered, I really feel that the argument for something like 6 years and 110 mil for Wright is just a really, really weak one.
darknova306
10/18/2012-10:02pm at 10:02 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t agree enough with all of this.
While I don’t subscribe to the “Wright iz unclutchez” nonsense (and you clearly don’t either, I’m not insinuating anything with that statement), he’s also not the key to contending down the road. The point that his upcoming contract extension will START in his age 31 seasons is very important. Paying $18-20M per year for a contract that begins in the typical decline years is the kind of lunacy that transcends Omar-ism.
TX
10/19/2012-12:43am at 12:43 am (UTC -4)
Listen here, beer man. I understand the cynicism, as we are Met fans after all, but this is not Defcon 237. Signing Wright to 110 mil for 6 year will not crumple this team. It’s already crumpled. kidding. Anyway, I think we fall into that mentality that signing “aging” vets will kill this team. See Bay, Jason. I don’t think this is the same scenario. The Mets aren’t losing draft picks for signing Wright. They have a need at 3B. They have a need for RH hitters. This (at a reasonable price) is so worth it. Reasonable being a Zimmerman-esque type deal.
After next year, we’ll have no other high priced vets, other than Dickey, should he sign. Signing Wright does not cripple this team. Even if he declines and the last year or so sucks, it will not hamstring this club. There will be flexibility to re-sign those that deserve it (such as extending Ike to a Niese like deal), and add a high end piece in a year or two to put this team over the hump. So, bailing on Wright, in my opinion, based on what his stats may be in 5 years, is silly. This is not an Arod deal and this is not taking him until he’s 43. Just saying.
PS, my liver is taking a pounding. So many good brews up here. Just enjoyed the Wet Hop Rogue brew (good, but over priced). Still stuck on Snoqualmie IPA, Rogue Yellow Snow IPA and Pike IPA. Pike I can’t place, but thoroughly enjoy. It’s not overly floral (which I prefer), not overly malty. Just a solid standard. Ahh, hops….
Stickguy
10/18/2012-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
Screw it. the only logical answer is blow this up right, and trade both of the big 2 FAs to be, and rebuild the sorry excuse for the a foundation. As long as the returns are good (and they should be) unload dickey and wright, cut Bay, and start the freaking future already.
Not that I think the FO has the stones to do it. And who knows if they have the talent to not screw it up.
Oh, and you damned kids need to stay the hell off my lawn…
kingman 26
10/18/2012-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
SO CLOSE to being 100% right!
SIGN RA!
SIGN MANNY!
BLOW UP THE CORE–YES THAT CORE!
Stickguy
10/18/2012-6:40pm at 6:40 pm (UTC -4)
Knog, I know you have a strong affinity for Dickey (yes, I did that on purpose!) but with the glut of needs the team has, he needs to be sacrificed for the future.
not to get rid of him (if they were getting 2 scrubs back I would just keep him), but I honestly think he is going to cause a bidding war this off season, and bring back a really good return. And if he can plug a couple of gaping holes with young, cost controlled guys that can be outperforming their salaries for 5-6 years, then sorry RA, you need to go.
Trs86
10/18/2012-7:58pm at 7:58 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, if Wright goes so does Dickey.
TX
10/18/2012-4:44pm at 4:44 pm (UTC -4)
I thought old people had rocks for front lawns so you didn’t need to mow anymore.
Stickguy
10/18/2012-6:41pm at 6:41 pm (UTC -4)
only in Arizona. In NJ, it is bare spots and ruts.
gategem
10/19/2012-2:25am at 2:25 am (UTC -4)
Be careful mowing your lawn (if you have one) in Seattle. There may be a couple having sex hiding in the grass.
I don’t know about Stick but one of the reasons I have a young (48 to me is young) gf is she can mow the damn lawn.
Stick
10/18/2012-9:01pm at 9:01 pm (UTC -4)
just have to say, watching the Yankees lose and not only get swept but really not even being competitive, is wonderful. Shocking though they were this inept hitting. Talk about looking old and/or feeble.
really curious to see what they do about it. You have to figure that there is a major blow up coming. A rod may just be the start.
darknova306
10/18/2012-9:40pm at 9:40 pm (UTC -4)
And the Mets are still awful. Knock the bitterness down a few notches. I know it’s become fashionable between you and 4D to predict 95+ win postseason teams to be awful the next year because they’re old (and do it every year until you’re finally right), but this Yankees team scored the 2nd most runs per game in the AL this year… a couple bad weeks isn’t going to justify blowing up the team. These aren’t George’s Yankees anymore.
Stick
10/18/2012-9:50pm at 9:50 pm (UTC -4)
still wonderful to see them suck royally, whether you enjoyed it or not. And they do have a lot of guys to decide on, not that I particularly care what they do. Just enjoying the good things in life that drop into the old lap.
srt
10/18/2012-10:01pm at 10:01 pm (UTC -4)
The Phillies tanking in the same year the Yankees get swept in the ALCS?
Doesn’t get much better than that!
srt
10/18/2012-10:00pm at 10:00 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a bit of an exaggeration on your part, darknova.
I will freely admit to making that prediction about this current Phillies team.
I don’t recall making any such predictions about this current Yankee team – or any other 95+ winning post season team, for that matter (other than the Phillies).
I do think the Yankees will be making some wholesale changes though, simply b/c Cashman said he’s committed to getting that payroll down below $189 MIL. He’s got some holes to fill though, starting with the SP.
darknova306
10/18/2012-10:11pm at 10:11 pm (UTC -4)
You and Stick have been saying that about the Phillies for 3 years now, and above in this thread you look like you’re starting the same thing about the Yanks:
“If this is an indication of where the Yankees are headed, they’re in big trouble for 2013.”
Yes, cause two weeks of offensive struggles signal “big trouble”. Sorry, I don’t see reveling in another team’s failure to be worth much these days. Yanks have made the playoffs more in a decade than our team has in their own franchise’s history. Taking any great pleasure in the Yankees getting knocked out of one of a great many postseason appearances just seems hollow and bitter to me.
Stick
10/18/2012-10:28pm at 10:28 pm (UTC -4)
well, to me, if you don’t then you need to seek professional help!
srt
10/18/2012-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
Fair point. To each his own, I guess.
Watching the Yankees fail has been a great pleasure for me each and every time they do. I’ve hated the Yankees for as long as I’ve loved the Mets. I don’t consider that shallow, I consider it fun.
It’s not like I’m wishing for injuries or bad things to happen to their players.
darknova306
10/18/2012-10:41pm at 10:41 pm (UTC -4)
My professional help comes 12 ounces at a time. 16 if I’m ordering from the taps.
Stick
10/18/2012-10:59pm at 10:59 pm (UTC -4)
I applaud you. The country would be better off if more people took their medical care into their own hands.
TX
10/19/2012-12:45am at 12:45 am (UTC -4)
12? 16? I’m leaning towards 22 Ounce bombers.
darknova306
10/20/2012-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
64 ounce growlers, baby!
Tried any new good stuff up there? Totally envying your ability to explore the northwest beer scene.
TX
10/20/2012-4:48pm at 4:48 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, i’ve basically been getting a different 6 or 12 pack every time i go out. It’s crazy. And that’s basically just in IPAs. There is so much. And the number of 22 oz brews gets like half an aisle in the food stores.
And yeah, i’ve been doing the growlers as well. there is a whole growler scene, makes me chuckle. people have their growler holders, growler backpacks, even a growler bumbo seat that holds 3 growlers at a time.
Had lunch at my current fav. brewery, and people would stop in, get a growler filled, stroll out. A mom and her 2 small kids on the way back from the park, old dude just strolling in, couple young dudes, all with growlers in hand. It’s almost like the old school taverns where people would congregate and catch up on news. Way different mentality here than NJ or TX. Loving it.
darknova306
10/20/2012-7:35pm at 7:35 pm (UTC -4)
That’s what I would refer to as heaven.
On a really happy beer note, Ithaca Beer Co has had their new brewhouse functional for a couple months, so Flower Power is back on the shelves. Always nice to have an IPA two days after it was bottled.
gategem
10/21/2012-2:19am at 2:19 am (UTC -4)
SRT and Stick are rather mild in their wishful comments describing the supposed downfall of the Yankees. Compare it to an article covering the same subject matter over at MMO that illustrates that even morons are capable of writing well. I’m at a loss how a team that leads its league in regular season wins is crumbling with no future because it’s swept in the LCS. Well at least the Mets can only lose four games to the Yankees next year so I guess that’s an improvement.
wanny
10/19/2012-9:09pm at 9:09 pm (UTC -4)
fwiw, i looked at amazin avenue and have found it to be 100x better than mmo or mattsblog.
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2012/10/19/3527562/mets-david-wright-contract-extension is a good blog on the wright situation.
Pacific NorthTex
10/19/2012-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
If only their posting situation not, uh, be less than desirable.
Stick
10/19/2012-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
is that a polite way to say their site sucks, and is impossible to navigate? Or just that they gang up on newbie posters like buzzards on roadkill?
Pacific NorthTex
10/19/2012-11:57pm at 11:57 pm (UTC -4)
Basically, yeah. Like MMO, but less bigotry, but more snobbery, if that makes sense.
gategem
10/20/2012-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
SB nation has changed their format making site navigation unwieldy. It has not only impacted AA but also my favorite Giants blog. While I like Eli Manning having to view a 8×10 glossy of him before I can even find the information I’m seeking is annoying.
I’ve always found the snob factor at AA to be somewhat amusing. Most of them have very little understanding of the mathematics that forms the basis of the metrics they’re quoting. Others act as if they’re the only Mets fans to earn post graduate degrees. But if you can wade through the nonsense you at least won’t have to see posts explaining why Matt Harvey will win the Cy Young award next year.
Stick
10/19/2012-11:45pm at 11:45 pm (UTC -4)
a slight diversion, and I am sure Nova will berate me for this, but I had to laugh at this classic example of Yankee fan mentality:
“Whoever are the most sought after free agents this offseason–that’s who the Yankees need. Replace Swisher with Josh Hamilton. Replace Ichiro with Michael Bourne. Replace Gardner with Torii Hunter. Replace Martin with AJ Pierczinski or Napoli. If the payroll goes to 250 million so be it. Sign Greinke to replace Hughes. Replace Nix with Scutaro. Replace Ibanez with Big Papi. Let Nunez play some backup outfield (also) to keep his bat in the lineup. Trade Hughes and Pineda to Padres for Chase Headley (31 homers 115 RBI)as potential replacement for Arod at 3B. Keep Arod as Righthanded DH.
Replace Girardi with more calming, settled presence. A Torre, Leyland, Baker, LaRussa type. Girardi overmanaged and panicked. He blew up his own team.
12 Hours Ago · Reply
TX
10/20/2012-12:00am at 12:00 am (UTC -4)
Must be nice to live life like Scrooge McDuck. Next belly flop off the diving board into the Spanish Bouillon get a free set of Emerald earrings…
darknova306
10/20/2012-1:12am at 1:12 am (UTC -4)
There’s lots of silliness in that post, but the thing that makes me laugh my ass off is the comment about replacing Girardi with LaRussa because he overmanaged.
Still, you can find Mets fans suggesting these kinds of player acquisition binges “if only the Wilpons weren’t so cheap”. Ridiculousness isn’t solely a Yankee fan trait… just read Mattsblog or MMO’s comment sections…
Hazmet
10/20/2012-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I still am really at a loss as to why so much time is spent analyzing the commentary on other blog sites here. To each their own. I guess if it’s slow traffic here it’s something to talk about but I just don’t see the upside.
darknova306
10/20/2012-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll wholeheartedly second this comment. There are days where it feels like some threads on this site turn into high school gossip fests about what other blog commenters are saying. I’ve ranted about this before, but it’s done no good. Oh well.
srt
10/20/2012-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Actually, I understand the mentality of making fun right now of the Yankees, their fans and even Francesa who yesterday called the Yankees season ‘just an average year’. Really, Mike? Average? May the Mets have an average type year like that soon.
The entitlement mindset of those cross town Bronx Bombers – and bomb they did – is just too funny this year.
However, I don’t much get the great divide among Met fans. It’s the old school against the ‘moneyball’ mentality right now.
And it really is kind of ridiculous. No team is going to discount market inefficienties now, or advanced stats. That’s just shooting yourself in the foot. So ‘old school’ needs to join the 21st century.
And this team isn’t looking to go all cheap and put the most inexpensive team out there, trying to win a WS. They’re hamstrung b/c of the Wilpons decisions and the Mets finances. The FO was forced to slash payroll to save the team for the Wilpons.
It’s all about building a good farm system now, good player development, best use of the payroll you have to work with – no matter what that amount may be in any given year.
Not sure why all Met fans can’t realize that. After all, we all want the same thing when all is said and done.
darknova306
10/20/2012-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
I would argue against forcing a dichotomy on the fanbase’s mindset. First, every fan has their own individual way of viewing things, so it seems silly to place blanket generalizations like those two “sides” you mention onto everyone.
You find a deep divide in the fanbase surprising and ridiculous? I would find a fanbase that’s in 100% agreement with each other surprising and ridiculous. People synthesize the current and future states of the franchise from the things they observe. Do you know for a fact anything you said is true? Have you been behind the scenes to hear the conversations about bringing in Alderson to save the Wilpons’ interests in the team? No. Everything you’ve said about the franchise is your take on the situation, a take I happen to agree with though that doesn’t mean it’s right, but yeah other people have different takes that might also be valid. Disagreeing with your take on things doesn’t make them wrong or ridiculous.
“Not sure why all Met fans can’t realize that”
You mean “Met fans that comment on blogs”. Don’t take the dozen or so vocal blog commenters and use them as a sample to represent the rest of this very large fanbase.
srt
10/20/2012-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
There’s a reason the Yankee fanbase has the reputation it does. And of course I’m not saying every single fan thinks the same way. That would be a little ridiculous.
There absolutely is a divide among Met fans right now. All you have to do is listen and read. Some Met fans hate this current FO so much they’d rather they – along with the Mets – fail, then see them succeed. And you bet I think it’s ridiculous.
As to my assumptions on why Omar was fired and SA brought in, I thought it was a given that you realized it’s just my opinion. After all, I didn’t quote sources on that. Just following the dots. I’ve yet to see an argument on that that has changed my mind.
And what’s wrong with saying:
‘It’s all about building a good farm system now, good player development, best use of the payroll you have to work with – no matter what that amount may be in any given year.’
Isn’t that just good, baseball common sense?
I guess I’m not quite sure where you were going with that hand slap you just gave me there.
Stick
10/20/2012-6:24pm at 6:24 pm (UTC -4)
well, I see that out on the blogsphere the whiners and dopes are in full mid-offseason form.
Now that a deal went down (am I the only one that doesn’t hardly remember any deals this early usually?), the hue and cry about Sandy “doing nothing” and “missing out on all the players” is impossible to miss.
Just because the one deal pretty much involved moving one overpaid mediocre guy for another, while eating a lot of money to get a 3rd team involved, and that it is hard to seriously say that any of the guys were a fit for the Mets needs, doesn’t seem to count. Because damn it, they need to do something! Now! ALL THE OTHER TEAMS ARE MAKING MOVES WHY ISNT SANDY!!!
but I am mostly amused by the idea that Chris Young can be compared to Jason Bay, in terms of being to trade him (even Heath Bell is not in the range of bad contract). And this if Bell and Young can be moved, obviously Sandy could trade Bay and Santana, if he only felt like trying.
I know the world is full of stupid people, but did the worst of the lot have to become met fans just to annoy me?
TX
10/20/2012-7:11pm at 7:11 pm (UTC -4)
On the parameters of that trade, there was no way Young was a fit for the Mets. No way. Unless you wanted to kick in better prospects to have AZ eat more money, but in the end, he’s be a one year band-aid and nothing more as you are more than likely not picking up that big old option. And this team is not in the spot of trading prospects for one year fixes.
Let the masses suffer from mental retardation. nothing we can do on that. Though it does amaze me that people are PO’d about this trade. I can’t remember the last time a trade went down prior to the world series. That’s probably the most shocking of the whole thing.
Mr North Jersey
10/20/2012-7:18pm at 7:18 pm (UTC -4)
If you were to strictly look at trades in the month of October you will find that this is probably the biggest trade name wise over the last 5 years. Unless I missed something there has been 1 trade in October for each of the last 5 years and a few were finalization of player to be named later deals.
In general trades are rare in October.
darknova306
10/20/2012-7:30pm at 7:30 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I did a double-take when I saw that there was a trade. Wasn’t surprised it involved the Marlins, though. Gotta start fixing the damage of that spending binge last year.
srt
10/20/2012-9:23pm at 9:23 pm (UTC -4)
Rare? I thought it was not allowed until the WS was over.
Tells you how much I know.
Maybe I just assumed that b/c as you said Jerz, they are rare.
Stick
10/20/2012-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
I could have been convinced they had to wait, but that was probably because it never happens! I do know they won’t let you announce to conflict with the playoffs, so since this was an off day, it was OK.
anyway, these days, it would quickly leak out anyway.
Stick
10/20/2012-7:18pm at 7:18 pm (UTC -4)
I agree about the timing. Usually nothing happens before all the 5 day post WS decisions (options, tenders this year for the compensation picks, etc.)
darknova306
10/20/2012-7:26pm at 7:26 pm (UTC -4)
You read those opinions voluntarily. If they annoy you so much, there’s a very simple solution that will be far more productive for you than continuing to read them and getting annoyed…
Stick
10/20/2012-7:51pm at 7:51 pm (UTC -4)
giving up the internet is not an option man.
srt
10/20/2012-9:34pm at 9:34 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, this.
I spend 80% of my non sleeping and work time on the internet. I get all my news there, I buy everything but my furniture online and of course, spend probably way too much time on baseball blogs.
Never got into online games though. Probably a good thing.
Stick
10/20/2012-10:43pm at 10:43 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I spend too much time on sites like this, but what are you gonna do? and that is where the idiot factor comes in. You have to wade through the silly comments to figure out which ones are a waste of time (unless of course you can just weed out by the poster name!)
Trs86
10/20/2012-10:51pm at 10:51 pm (UTC -4)
Yup, we are all on here for a reason.
darknova306
10/21/2012-12:55am at 12:55 am (UTC -4)
Going online is voluntary. Going onto Mets related blogs is voluntary. Reading Mets blogs that annoy you is voluntary. Reading comment sections that you know will annoy you is voluntary. Coming back here and whining about something silly that someone said on one of those blogs is voluntary, ridiculous, and degrades the quality of the commentary on this site.
This is a site about the Mets, not a site about whining about the Sandy haters. Give it a rest already.
Trs86
10/21/2012-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
Unfortunately if the Mets don’t do something this offseason all sites will end up in this divide.
srt
10/20/2012-9:32pm at 9:32 pm (UTC -4)
I read MLBTR regularly and the amount of proposed trades in that comment section would make your head spin.
However, I’d say 90% of them are pretty knowledgeable baseball fans. You only occasionally see a trade or two that’s along the lines of ‘we’ll trade you our garbage players for your star’.
It’s a great website to read this time of year.
Others lean towards more opinion and debate issues. And you know what you’re gonna get there….opinions all over the place.
I read 2 or 3 articles over on Pin Striped Bible after the Yankees were eliminated. Man, those Yankee fans….have to laugh b/c NOW they want Wright. Before this year, he was overrated. LOL
Trs86
10/20/2012-10:50pm at 10:50 pm (UTC -4)
Hey where are those that suggested the Rays would be interested in Fff as part of a deal for Young? Lol.