Author’s Note: Please forgive the author if this idea has already been suggested by TRS86, Wanny, or any other colleagues or readers here during the author’s inexcusable recent absence.
R.A. Dickey has a $5 million club option for 2013, and apparently is seeking a 3-year contract, in the neighborhood of $40-something million.
There is no debate that Dickey has been a wonderful presence for this team, on and off the field, for the last three years. Ultimately, he might be viewed as one of Omar Minaya’s finest acquisitions. Clearly, he has given the team infinitely more value than his relatively modest salaries of the last three years have cost the team.
Now, Dickey realizes that the time for his big payday has arrived.
Some say that Dickey has earned this, and he has earned it from the Mets. Many feel that, as a knuckleball pitcher, he has a longer shelf life than most soon-to-be 38 pitchers.
Others insist that his age and long career–as well as the fact that he throws the knuckler harder than his predecessors–argue against the wisdom of a multi-year deal for the bearded Renaissance Man.
In addition, the Mets now always-precarious financial situation also must be taken into consideration, as every deal must be carefully weighed in the new post-Madoff era.
One idea seems to have been given little consideration, and that is the concept of mutually agreeing to tear up the 2013 option, giving R.A. close to what he wants, and seemingly arranging a compromise which both sides might be very happy with. As it is a club option, the Mets can simply decline it right before R.A. signs the new deal.
Offer Dickey 3/$45. Seems like he might be very happy with that. Agree that it starts in 2013. So Dickey immediately receives a huge raise, and at the same time the Mets are on the hook for three years instead of four.
Seems like the Players Association would be fine with this, R.A. would receive a huge raise immediately, the Mets’ risk would be nicely hedged, and the team would keep its ace in place for at least the next three seasons.
Dickey is be an ideal leader for a staff that will be manned over the next couple of years by many young pitchers, in the rotation and the bullpen. In addition, his unique knuckleball throws teams off quite nicely, and beautifully sets off the curve of Niese and the hard stuff thrown by Harvey and soon-to-be Met Wheeler.
The feeling here is that, if acceptable by both sides, this would be a nearly ideal compromise. Dickey might bring back a nice return in prospects, but his age might prevent the return from being what might be hoped for. Unlike David Wright, Dickey will not command a deal of five years or longer; in addition, R.A. is coming off his career year and has had the best stretch of his career as a Met in recent years. It is a lot of money, but for a pitcher who has just achieved what R.A. has, risking it over three years seems very reasonable and a very worthy risk.
This idea makes a lot of sense, in many ways.
96 comments
TX
10/22/2012-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
The only way that it does not make sense is the lack of financial flexibility now. Next year, there should be stacks o’ cash to burn. so, in theory, if you give Dickey 3 years, 40 mil (or 13.3333333 mil per year or you added on a 2 year deal for 17.5 Mill a year after that, it all works out to the same final amount, but there will be the funds available to cover both 2013 and 2014/2015. If they tear up his deal, they won’t be able to afford flotsam or jetsam.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
With Wright gone, that will be NO problem!
Seriously, RA just had his career year. Trading him would be absolute lunacy.
I get the whole sell high thing, but a starting pitcher of his 2012 caliber is very rare, and one of even his 2010-2011 level is pretty damn valuable.
RA must stay.
Stickguy
10/22/2012-3:59pm at 3:59 pm (UTC -4)
a 38 YO that just had a career year? My friend that is exactly the time you cash in on him and trade him for a prime return.
the lunacy would be hitching the LT future up to a 38 YO guy off a career year! As you like to say, that could be positively “Omarian”
TX
10/22/2012-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
That is why I would prefer they trade away Dickey and re-sign Wright.
darknova306
10/22/2012-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll have to agree with Stick on this one. It’s hard to see how Dickey’s trade value will ever be higher than now. This is the time to see if anyone out there is willing to give up a haul that would help this team down the road. The Mets need tons of positional help. Regardless of the contract you give Dickey, the Mets aren’t contending during its duration without major upgrades in the field.
TX
10/22/2012-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
Also, the Author’s Note cracked my up. Kudos to the wordsmith.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
Really, I do aim to please…
gategem
10/22/2012-7:27pm at 7:27 pm (UTC -4)
I saw your exact statement on a men’s room wall. It was written in crayon.
SaltyGary
10/22/2012-7:36pm at 7:36 pm (UTC -4)
HAHAHAHAAHa
Mr North Jersey
10/22/2012-8:07pm at 8:07 pm (UTC -4)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51sSOlWOXAL._SL500_SS500_.jpg
Prismo
10/22/2012-3:56pm at 3:56 pm (UTC -4)
Respectfully, I think 3yr/$45M is too much for Dickey. Now, if he was a free agent this offseason I think this might be a fair deal. But the $5M option is HUGE for the Mets.
This essentially means a 3/45 contract would be a 2 year/40 million extension. $20M a year for a 38 year old pitcher with one season before he even gets there? No way for me. That’s far too big of a chunk of our payroll for an aging pitcher. His being a knuckleballer gets him around -5 years to his age in my mind, but he does throw relatively hard for one.
I think you give him a 3 year/$35M contract, which again is essentially a 2 year/30 million extension. However, you could redistribute that so he gets paid more this year relative to if his option was picked up. If he really wants the big bucks, trade him just like Wright. We’re not the Yankees or Dodgers right now…
kingman 26
10/22/2012-4:11pm at 4:11 pm (UTC -4)
“This essentially means a 3/45 contract would be a 2 year/40 million extension.”
You see, the thing that annoys me about you sometimes is the high level of intelligence your remarks often have, especially when they are in contrast to mine.
This is a really, really good point, and I did not think of it this way.
However, as Judge Chamberlain Haller might have said “Overruled!”
Seriously, really interesting way to view it.
Prismo
10/22/2012-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
LOL thank you. But your way of thinking does have some merit, because in reality they probably wouldn’t be paying him 5/20/20 over the next three years with that contract. So it does sound worse than it actually would be.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I really am looking at a way to keep him while just being committed for 3 years.
Stickguy
10/22/2012-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
they have made great strides in electroshock therapy recently. I don’t think it will take 3 years to straighten you out.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-5:04pm at 5:04 pm (UTC -4)
Hahaha! This is good.
I need to give up that stupid place I hang out at and just come back here.
Stickguy
10/22/2012-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
IMO, just semantics about tearing up the option vs. just extending him. Any contract creates a new deal, so who cares if they put more money into 2013 or less? the only thing that matters is the total $ and years.
But, there is also plan B. Troll him, and hope some team loaded with positional guys that is desperate for a front end SP to make a run at the series in 2013 wants to pay a steep price.
they have so many holes, and such a dearth of positional talent in the system, that you have to look at all the options to try and build a team with enough of a foundation to be viable into the future.
and put me as one that does not buy into the “dickey can pitch forever because he is a knuckle ball pitcher” theory. He throws nearly as hard as a normal “crafty od guy” pitcher, and he looks like he is exerting himself on every pitch! Plus, he has had significant injuries to pitch through the last 2 years (and yes he battled through, but it is a fact of life for old guys, and can take its toll)
kingman 26
10/22/2012-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for the comments, and really, to me, the essential idea here was to have it be a 3-year commitment versus a 4-year one.
The money can be debated, but my feeling is that a 3-year deal is MUCH more worth the risk than being tied to RA for 4 years.
Prismo
10/22/2012-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
Agree. I think the Mets need to set boundaries for BOTH Wright and Dickey. And if those thresholds are permanently crossed by the players and their agents, sayonara.
Stickguy
10/22/2012-4:33pm at 4:33 pm (UTC -4)
trade them both. Blow this thing up and redo it right.
TRS86
10/22/2012-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
That’s where the problem is Kong and why I think Dickey has no intentions of re-upping with the Mets. The Mets are not in a position to give him 3 additional years and there will be win now teams out there that would.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-5:22pm at 5:22 pm (UTC -4)
Well TRS if this is RA’s mindset–and who could blame him if it was after the value he has given the 4th place Mets for 3 years—then it is all probably worthless to debate.
At his age, sure, I can see him wanting to see the postseason from somewhere other than his living room.
And I sure would not blame him.
wanny
10/22/2012-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
If the Mets are set on keeping Dickey there’s no reason not to wait until midseason to extend his deal. Dickey has all the leverage right now.
However, if they are trying to determine whether he can be signed at their price or traded now while his value is at its highest, then they need to do something quick.
But I do not see the benefit in taking up a larger chunk of this season’s payroll by tearing up his deal while he’s affordable. If they think he’s a $12m/year pitcher in 2014 and 2015 then they can suck it up if he’s something less in 2016.
TRS86
10/22/2012-4:33pm at 4:33 pm (UTC -4)
Man do I agree with this entire thing. He signed the contract, the Mets are in a financial bind, why the heck would they pay him more in 2013?
I also am of the opinion that Dickey doesn’t intend on giving the Mets any hometown discount and I could easily see him wanting to go somewhere that is bound to be competitive in years one and two instead of maybe 3.
Trade Dickey, be ready to slot Wheeler into the rotation and then address what to do with Wright. Again, assuming you can get top level talent back for him in return.
If you are hell bound on signing him then I would go
3/36 with a 4M signing bonus that would make the deal 4/45 counting his option year and I would have big reservations doing that.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-5:21pm at 5:21 pm (UTC -4)
Well OK I can see this is not a popular idea, and perhaps I am in the minority in being so gung ho for a return of Dickey.
But I guess, as someone who has always been biased in favor of the importance of starting pitching, that I feel that if RA is gone, and keeps winning elsewhere, damn we are going to miss him.
Is it that hard to see him having maybe 2 years in him as an at least 16-8, 3.00 pitcher?
Joe D.
10/22/2012-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
Alderson already said (twice) that there is nothing that will keep him from not exercising the option on Dickey. Nothing. Aren’t you the one that hates posts about hypotheticals and speculation?
wanny
10/22/2012-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
that would be TRS.
TRS86
10/22/2012-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, yeah I like to do them as long as they are on my terms
Joe D.
10/22/2012-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
lol, okay.
wanny
10/22/2012-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
But there’s no reason he can’t pick it up by the deadline to do such things and then renegotiate it anyway.
TRS86
10/22/2012-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
Sure, they will pick it up soon. That has nothing to do with the trade or renegotiation.
TRS86
10/22/2012-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
Welcome Joe, I guess when your sites down you got no where else to go?
But yeah I said the same thing, if his option year was in 2014 this might be a story but with the Mets needing cash why in the heck would they pay more in 2013 than they are already contractually obligated to do?
wanny
10/22/2012-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
For once the Mets have caught a break and are getting good value on a player. And now Kong wants to blow it up!!!
TRS86
10/22/2012-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, but it would make Dickey so happy.
Why do I feel like I just walked into a Japanese Massage Parlor?
*Ducks*
wanny
10/22/2012-4:56pm at 4:56 pm (UTC -4)
LOL.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/brazen_midtown_hooker_ring_busted_v2NuXju7O1Yll6XiP5LiBM
kingman 26
10/22/2012-5:18pm at 5:18 pm (UTC -4)
OK Wanny, but again, my idea has ONE main component—hedging the risk of giving RA a multi-year deal by finding a way to make it 3 years instead of 4.
I am firmly in the camp of moving Wright and keeping RA, and I firmly believe that a big deal for Wright will be a disaster.
Hence, I feel that this could be a good idea if the choice is 3 years and RA stays a Met or 4 years and RA is gone.
And perhaps if he liked the idea, he would backload it a bit towards 2014 and 2015 to give the Mets the ability to not have checks bounce in 2013.
Joe D.
10/22/2012-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
I find it curious how whenever I ban certain individuals ftom that shoutbox, not only are they back 15 minutes later, but an attempt is made to hack our server.
TRS86
10/22/2012-4:46pm at 4:46 pm (UTC -4)
Well, don’t want to talk about things but there was the poster known as “Jimmy” LOL, that said that he had the hack for how to get back in the shoutbox and told Jessep if anyone tried to kick him out he would make your life hell.
I just laughed at it as a joke but who knows, obviously there are people that have lots of time to do vindictive things and those who know a lot more about computers than I do.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-5:15pm at 5:15 pm (UTC -4)
Gee Joe, that’s crazy!
Cannot imagine anyone malicious visiting your site!
Interesting…
Stickguy
10/22/2012-4:36pm at 4:36 pm (UTC -4)
what Wanny said. All that meant was there is no chance they are declining the option. what they do after that is up to them (well, and Dickey when it comes to signing a potential extension!)
kingman 26
10/22/2012-5:13pm at 5:13 pm (UTC -4)
Did you ever hear of someone saying something as a negotiating position and then changing it?
Things sometimes work like that in the real world.
Do you remember Sandy saying “We are buyers!” at the deadline Joe? What did they buy?
Everything we all post is irrelevant fan blather and speculation.
I think Alex might be commenting on his thoughts on Sabermetrics—you could be missing something brilliant!
darknova306
10/22/2012-6:24pm at 6:24 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see any reason to take quotes from players or front office folks at face value. They can say whatever the hell they feel like, but they’re gonna do whatever they feel is necessary.
Maybe I’m just cynical from years of listening to Omar’s incoherent babbling…?
SaltyGary
10/22/2012-6:23pm at 6:23 pm (UTC -4)
Haha Joe on the attack.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-6:42pm at 6:42 pm (UTC -4)
And about as well-done as a senior member of The Core.
After all, everything Alderson has said has turned out to be true, right?
Everything executives say can always be taken at face value!
And I hate hypotheticals and speculation?
Alex is more on the money!
SaltyGary
10/22/2012-6:55pm at 6:55 pm (UTC -4)
It’s all good that you two have a healthy animosity towards each other but just remember he is not the same that you rail against. He does a lot of hard work and demonstrates that he has more patience with the knuckleheads than my wife has with me.
Cheers friend!
kingman 26
10/22/2012-7:11pm at 7:11 pm (UTC -4)
He hosts and encourages the most obnoxious and ridiculous and aggressively ignorant people in the Met Internet world.
Cheers right back at you and bless THIS place!
SaltyGary
10/22/2012-7:22pm at 7:22 pm (UTC -4)
He’s actually been banning the crap out of a lot of people. I am fine with not wanting to go with certain sites no matter what the content is due to the user base but I’ll always respect grinding it out day after day to build something up and that is exactly what he is doing. it’s exactly why I would rather go there than a guys site who still has no idea how to use spell check.
And you better believe bless this place. Maybe now that you are around more maybe we should try to collaborate on something soon and cause a shit storm. Let me know.
And thanks for getting some new folks here I am liking their contributions.
kingman 26
10/22/2012-7:26pm at 7:26 pm (UTC -4)
I would LOVE to collaborate, and I plan to be here a lot more often from now on.
Truthfully, I like the attention of posting the only story of the day!
TX
10/22/2012-5:37pm at 5:37 pm (UTC -4)
I wonder if Pelf will re-sign a minor league deal with the Mets or not… Hmm…
SaltyGary
10/22/2012-6:35pm at 6:35 pm (UTC -4)
God I hope not. Let him lick his palms with someone else. What, is surgery gonna some how give him a backbone?
SaltyGary
10/22/2012-6:36pm at 6:36 pm (UTC -4)
And how many time you gonna change ur name. I dug the Pacific North one.
TX
10/22/2012-8:44pm at 8:44 pm (UTC -4)
It was born out of laziness and conservation of keystrokes.
amazin_jessep
10/22/2012-6:57pm at 6:57 pm (UTC -4)
He signed the deal, so he lives out the contract. It’s not the Mets fault they were right. If he signed a $20m deal and had a 5 ERA, would he give any of that $ back to the Mets? Of course not.
Baseball players have guaranteed contracts because they have the greatest union in the world – sometimes management gets it right, and you live with it.
I can give you a 100% certainty that if they sign Dickey to an extension and he turns out to be average or worse – he ain’t giving 1 cent back to them…so why should they do the opposite?
kingman 26
10/22/2012-7:13pm at 7:13 pm (UTC -4)
Cannot argue with any of this, and thanks for reading.
But the real world dictates that if the Mets do not offer market value, someone else surely will.
I think he would have great value for the Mets over the next 2–3 years.
Hazmet
10/22/2012-7:37pm at 7:37 pm (UTC -4)
Dickey’s value is greater than his stat line both putting fannies in the seats and providing stability in the clubhouse. OK let the debate begin about how starting pitchers can’t be one of the team leaders since they only start once every five days, but that’s a different matter. In RA’s case I believe he is a leader in the clubhouse which for me give’s further weight to his value. But all things in moderation given his age. If he’d go for it what I think would be good from a Met’s perspective: tear up the remaining option year of his contract and increase it to 12M add a year at 15 and an option year at 15M with a 5M buy out. 27 guaranteed with an upside of 42 if he keeps up the trend for knucklers best years being later in life or 32 for 2 years essentially if he fades due to age. In fairness this balances the scales all the way around for what Dickey’s provided to this franchise over his tenure to date.
Stickguy
10/22/2012-8:08pm at 8:08 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not willing to bet that he is going to put that many fannies in the seats if the team is losing a lot and an also ran in the standings. He isn’t quite Gooden in 1985, or seaver in his prime, in terms of getting people to come out just because he is on the mound.
darknova306
10/23/2012-12:20am at 12:20 am (UTC -4)
He’ll get a few more people into the stadium every five days. Mostly if it’s on a weekend night, and most likely not that many more than normal.
Want to get fans into the seats? Win baseball games.
amazin_jessep
10/23/2012-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
You’re predicting his value but you have no idea how other teams view a knuckleballer like Dickey. You cannot assume every team will line up for him.
I agree that I’d like to see him on the Mets for the next 2-3 years. But that doesn’t mean you tear up his option. My point is solely based on the option. You can extend him through 2015 without ripping up a deal.
BTW, I laughed when you thanked me for reading. Not sure if that was on purpose – but I do the same thing and a small group of people try to mock me for it. Didn’t realize thanking people for reading things you write is such a crime.
gategem
10/24/2012-12:08am at 12:08 am (UTC -4)
When you extend simple amenities to normal people you generally get positive feedback. Unfortunately over at MMO you have to develop a thick hide and ignore the response from the lunatic fringe or refrain from writing over there.
srt
10/22/2012-9:56pm at 9:56 pm (UTC -4)
Lateto the party on this one.
I have to agree with those who are saying there is no way the Mets give up that 5 MIL option they’ve got Dickey for going into 2013. Simply put, they just cannot afford it. If they have any hope of retaining Dickey i think it will have to be a new contract for 2014 and on.
As much as I want Dickey to stay, I have a feeling it’s not going to get done. Dickey is in a different place in his career than Wright. I also believe it they can’t come to terms with Dickey they almost have to shop him this off season. Because of the new CBA rules, we’ll likely get less value mid season if we wait until then.
But I’d really like to see Dickey in the rotation as a Met for a few more years….
Stick
10/22/2012-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
quite the foldo from the Cards this series. Not breaking my heart, since I really have had enough of them to last a long time.
srt
10/23/2012-12:08am at 12:08 am (UTC -4)
Tigers vs. Giants.
I couldn’t believe the Giants actually brought Romo in, pitching change, 2 outs in the 9th up by 9 runs in that pouring rain.
Poor Beltran…wonder if it has occurred to him yet this is the 3rd time the Cardinals have been responsible for him not making it to the WS.
darknova306
10/23/2012-12:25am at 12:25 am (UTC -4)
Sigh… I guess Beltran forced the Cardinals to lose so his eventual World Series ring isn’t tainted by the nonsense of his team making the postseason via a silly 1-game playoff against a team 6 games better. What a travesty.
At least the World Series gives me an easy rooting decision. No way can I get myself to root for a west coast team. Go Tigers! Either way, should be a fun series.
Stickguy
10/23/2012-8:37am at 8:37 am (UTC -4)
is it any more of a travesty that a team like the Angels stayed home, and a team that won a lot fewer games went in (the tigers)?
I don’t have any problem with the WC play in. Much better than when teams did not try to win the division if they knew they had a WC sewn up.
srt
10/23/2012-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
‘Much better than when teams did not try to win the division if they knew they had a WC sewn up.’
This to me is a big plus with that extra WC now.
Not sure I’m a fan of the ‘one and done’ game but going any longer, they’d really have to think about shortening the regular season to get these games in during post season before the first snow.
TRS86
10/23/2012-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I am in favor of that too. Shorten it back to what 154? Wasn’t that what it was before?
srt
10/23/2012-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
I believe it was 151 games.
You just know there is no way the owners are going to vote to shorten the season – and their profits – by 9 games.
TRS86
10/23/2012-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Unless it extends the playoffs which means more money.
kingman 26
10/23/2012-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
It was 154 from about 1920 until 1961, with 8 teams in each league and you played everyone 22 times.
Then in 1962 a couple of crappy expansion teams were added, and they moved it to 162, so 10 teams played each other 18 times.
While it has shifted around in terms of who plays who how many times, it has stayed at 162.
TRS86
10/23/2012-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Damn expansion,
Prismo
10/23/2012-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman, that’s why I was vehemently against the expansion in 1962. I remember burning some sweet incense and chilling out in bell-bottom jeans to Chubby Checker. I shook my psychedelically distorted wrist in the air at MLB commissioner Ford Frick and cursed out the expansion! Who would’ve thought just 7 years later I’d be toking up with Jefferson Airplane at Woodstock preparing for the MLB playoffs and the Mets’ first World Series win. Trippy.
kingman 26
10/23/2012-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
LOL! First off, I was YEARS away from even being born in 1962!
Nice early ’60s references–impressive!
kingman 26
10/23/2012-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Well TRS, of the four 1961-1962 expansion teams, there have been three WS titles won, and we have two of them!
Damn, something the Mets can be proud of!
One for the Angels, and zero for the Astros and Senators/Rangers.
srt
10/23/2012-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, Prismo.
Very nice for someone I don’t think has reached his 30 B’day yet.
gategem
10/24/2012-12:16am at 12:16 am (UTC -4)
I may be the only member of my generation that was not at Woodstock. I also didn’t see the 1958 Giants/Colts championship game which once again everyone else apparently saw (the game was blacked out of the New York market). However, I did attend quite a few concerts from some of the greatest bands but not at Woodstock.
TRS86
10/23/2012-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
We know that one game playoff is just a gimmick anyway.
So my proposal was why not a 3 game series with a double header on the first day with a game the next day if it is split. All three games would be played at the team with the higher record? That way no matter what it only takes 2 days.
Imagine the thrill of that prime-time game when the team that lost the first game HAS to win the other end. To me that still gives them the thrill of the prime time elimination game while making the series more fair as well.
SaltyGary
10/23/2012-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it was a gimmick at all. When the format was first proposed I couldn’t get my head around it and did not favor the idea but I really came around to it. The one thing I always hated was there was no urgency to win the division, and this format added that and made for good races. A wild card is just that, the best loser gets one last chance, and there should be penalties to make is harder for them to succeed.
To do a 3 game series would be a greater penalty and disservice to the wild card teams. It would force them to exhaust their lineups and going into the next series they would be much weaker.
TRS86
10/23/2012-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Yes they would, especially if they didn’t finish it in the first day. However, why shouldn’t they have the disadvantage?
Besides you would be back close to on rotation by the 2nd game.
Stickguy
10/23/2012-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
I like it too. I go back to the year(s) when the yanks and red sox had the 2 spots sewn up early, and in the last week or 2, the 2nd place (and not by much) team went into set up for the playoffs mode, and the Sox really conceded the division to the Yankees. No chance that happens with the new set up!
once you went to multiple divisions, the “purity” angle of not having a 2nd rate team go tot he WS was lost. If anything, adding the WC made it fairer for a good team to get there over a bad team, that just happened to play in a craptastic, yet arbitrary, division.
TX
10/23/2012-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
That would completely wipe out the teams pitching roster. It would be better to not even have a play-in series if that was the case.
TRS86
10/23/2012-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
Nah, you would just have to use your 4th and 5th starter or pitch someone on short rest, then you could be back on rotation after the travel day. Besides you get to reset your roster after that series anyway.
SaltyGary
10/23/2012-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
From a ratings perspective who in the world would want to watch a 4th-5th starter go against the aces of the other teams?
TRS86
10/23/2012-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
It happens all the time. Look at the first game of the World Series.
srt
10/23/2012-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
IDK, that Zito start the other night was very entertaining.
7 2/3 innings of shut out ball. This from the same high priced pitcher who was left off the WS roster two years ago when the Giants won.
srt
10/23/2012-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
So it’s really going to be Verlander vs. Zito?
The odds have to be 99-1 for the Tigers.
Too bad I wasn’t in Vegas. Might be worth $20 bucks to bet on the Giants in that game.
Ceetar
10/23/2012-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
two Cy Young winners face off!
Zito hasn’t actually been bad this year. averagish. Cabrera and Fielder probably tee off against him, but I have a feeling they’re going to do that no matter who the Giants throw out there. Just a feeling.
srt
10/23/2012-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
I’d give Zito some decent odds if the Tigers weren’t starting Verlander in that game.
I consider Verlander to be one of the best pitchers – if not The best – in the game right now.
Ceetar
10/23/2012-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
well sure, but even he has bad days.
TX
10/23/2012-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
Is there some way to even get a automatically generated “new blank post of the day” this thread has become muddled.
Stickguy
10/23/2012-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
Looks like your buddy Geoffrey took care of a new topic, Maybe he can get author rights to turn it into a stand alone post?
TX
10/23/2012-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
Nah, not a fan of the Gee-Off spelling. I’ll pass.
TX
10/23/2012-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, and Marlins can Guillen. There was a smart investment.
srt
10/23/2012-5:40pm at 5:40 pm (UTC -4)
As much as I complain about the Wilpons it could always be worse….it could be Loria.
I think that Ozzie contract was for 4 years. That means Ozzie gets the last laugh. No wonder he looked unconcerned with the rumors at seasons end of him being fired.
I read then it was ‘either Ozzie or Bell’ that had to go. Now both are gone.
Just have to wonder who the next victim…er, manager will be.
Stick
10/23/2012-7:49pm at 7:49 pm (UTC -4)
easy to make fun of Loria, but at least the team doesn’t screw around when things go wrong, and live with their mistakes. No paralysis with them.
darknova306
10/23/2012-11:27pm at 11:27 pm (UTC -4)
So the Marlins are the Omar Minaya of baseball franchises? That must be why they’re a perpetually sinking Titanic…
srt
10/24/2012-12:25am at 12:25 am (UTC -4)
Loria doesn’t screw around b/c it would cost him money.
He doesn’t care at all about that team, other than the profits it could make for him.
When he realized he wasn’t coming close to selling out any ball games (3 sellouts the whole year), and his team was heading towards last place, he started dumping contracts. Plus he announced early on in Sep he was lowering payroll.
The way he does business with that team is one of the reasons the Marlins have a problem building a fan base, IMO.