This one is for you TX.
In a post in the NYP from Mike Puma today way down at the bottom there was this little tidbit. Something Puma obviously stole from our readers here.
More subtly, Alderson also might see if there’s any outside interest in disappointing Jason Bay, who is still owed $19 million. If the Angels are willing to eat a sizable chunk of the $42 million Vernon Wells still has coming, maybe the Mets can find a dance partner.
Wells is coming off two very poor seasons with a slash line of:
| .222 | .258 | .409 | .667 |
I don’t need to post Bay’s stats for us to know they are similar. Where the numbers change is the fact that Wells is owed twice what Bay is owed. In my opinion for this to work the Angels have to be desperate to get rid of Wells. I would propose the following trade IF this is something they are interested in.
Vernon Wells, Hank Conger, and 10 million for Jason Bay, Frank Francisco.
So what would this do? It solves CF until prospects are ready and provides the Mets a 24 year old switch hitting catcher to pair with Thole. The money would be the Angels paying 32.5M instead of 42M. On the Mets end they would then also be paying around 32M instead of 22.5M but would solve the catching issue while also freeing up so much needed cash in 2013 if the 10M was applied to this year’s budget.
I hope I made that clear enough…
Thoughts?
46 comments
TX
11/7/2012-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
Sign me up for some of that!
Then take that extra cash and sign Soria!!!
In all seriousness, yes, Wells is not so good, but he can play CF and the salary relief for this year i most certainly needed. If they do this, you can expect to plug some actual holes while re-signing Dickey and Wright.
My name is TX, and I endorse this message.
(this add was paid for by “Friends of TX”)
Prismo
11/7/2012-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
So over the next 2 years…
Wells makes: 24.6 and 24.6
Conger makes: .5 and then 3 arbitration years
Bay makes: 18.1 and 3 (buyout)
Frank makes: 6.5 and 0
Meaning Angels are trading ~25 and ~25 to the Mets.
Mets are trading ~25 and ~3 to the Angels.
Prismo
11/7/2012-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know. I’d almost rather just bite the bullet than get another crappy player who will be here for 2 seasons. At least if the Mets don’t do this, we’re TOTALLY FREE of these bad contracts by next offseason.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
True, I can see that too but we still have no catcher. I think Hank could be a good gamble. Yeah, he has no MLB experience but if they do then you are gonna pay out the arse,
Prismo
11/7/2012-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Oh okay I figured out the math in my head finally. (this crud is complicated!!)
So if the Angels chipped in $10MM split between the two seasons…
The Mets would have $5MM *more* to spend this offseason, but $17MM *less* to spend next offseason. I don’t like it, that’s a huge hit to our spending next year for a crappy outfielder and a catcher who admittedly has hit in the minors but has 0 productive big league experience so far.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Prismo,
I could be wrong but I have Wells be owed
13:$21M, 14:$21M according to Cotts Contracts.
I also did not include Hank’s salary as they would have to pay another catcher that amount anyway.
I did forget Bay’s 3M buyout so that most likely would result in 7M coming instead of 10M.
So again I see 42M leaving the Angels and them bringing back in 22.5M+ 3M buyout so 25.5M+ the 7M extra= 32.5M.
Either way I see it as the Mets picking up around 10M more than they are currently paying and the Angels saving about 10M total.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Also they could take that 10M and just apply it to this year’s salary and then be on the hook for Well’s total 21M next year. At that point they would actually have an extra 8M to spend this year. Of course less next year but then again they should be able to afford that next year.
That being said it still all hinges on Wright and Dickey.
For Kingman, I will throw in that maybe you could expand the deal and get Trumbo for Dickey!
kingman 26
11/7/2012-5:47pm at 5:47 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
Oh man, my story is going to explode the site’s bandwidth when they trade Dickey!
TX
11/7/2012-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I don’t see Conger as worth that 10 mil. If it was another prospect (or more money kicked in), than yeah, this makes sense.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Keep in mind it’s not just the 10M but also it’s basically deferring payment to get more flexibility this year.
TX
11/7/2012-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Trust me, I’m all for it. If they want to keep both Wright and Dickey (Trade Dickey!!!
), then they will need to get creative in making extra salary, and that is only done on trading Bay or Santana.
Prismo
11/7/2012-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Hmm on their excel sheet they say he’s making $24.6
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tWBCtH8eoSECZxhX-dRCHIw&output=html
What the heck? That’s a big difference. I’m investigating.
Prismo
11/7/2012-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
It should be $21 it looks like. Their spreadsheet is wrong. Annoying.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
LOL, yeah. I don’t guess it matters too much. What I am trying to do is get it down to the Mets paying 10M extra and the Angels 10M less anyway so whatever his contract is just adjust how much the Angels have to pay.
TX
11/7/2012-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Based on the numbers TRS put out there, yes. So, instead of paying 28 this year for Bay and Frankie (including the buyouts, which i believe were mentioned to be allocated to this years budget), you pay 24 (not a great deal of difference), but you’ve filled CF and C and have a little extra cash to fill in BP and hopefully another OF.
To me, it would require more $$$ from the Angels to be worth it, like kicking in 14-18 million.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Dang I am getting myself confused. LOL
OK so the Mets owe Bay and FFF 25.5M counting the buyout. That salary would turn into 21M instead. Then if you used the additional 10M this year you would actually turn 25.5M into 11M thus saving almost 15M dollars that could be put towards another OF such as …. I don’t know… Upton.
Then slide Wells into CF and you get
Upton, Tejada, Wright, Davis, Wells, Murphy, Hank and Kirk. In some damn order…
You have improved your OF defense tremendously as well as your lineup.
Now imagine as I said that you could get Trumbo for Dickey and slot him into LF.
Q-Rod
11/7/2012-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
But you haven’t meaningfully filled in CF and C.
I think bite the bullet on these guys and move on after next season.
In the meantime, this offseason I think the Mets should make a relatively minor move for a young defensive CF and a major move for a really good corner OF. Then see how it all looks going into 2014 with real flexibility.
TX
11/7/2012-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
I think you have the young Defensive OF in Den Dekker or Capt K. And i’m all for a good corner OF.
But honestly, what meaningful way will the catcher spot be filled other than trading for JP or d’Arnaud or someone like that? The FA market is sub-optimal. When ShopVac is your top choice… Oi vey…
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
True you haven’t filled CF longterm but keep in mind you have freed up money this year to go get one. Netting a good young CF is gonna be tough and the Mets do have guys that could grow into the position. Also as I said you have to take gambles on catcher. You can’t upgrade that position from FA and netting a top level guy will cost what we have.
Q-Rod
11/7/2012-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Nah. The Angels don’t need the cash savings in exchange for a truly abysmal player (or two). And the return for the Mets doesn’t feel like its worth the extra money. Just my opinion.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Actually based on reports they do indeed need the cash as they want to make sure Grenkie returns. That is why they were trying to save any cash they could on Santana and Haren.
Q-Rod
11/7/2012-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
We could all use some extra cash, but not at the expense of foisting Bay and Francisco on the fanbase.
It would sort of re-open old wounds on both sides of the ledger.
TRS86
11/7/2012-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Q-Rod are you speaking from the Angels perspective or the Mets? Hard for me to tell.
However, as to old wounds, I think both sides are ready to move on and saving that cash for the Angels and them signing Grinkie is an easy fix for them. On the Mets end it would only work if they use the money saved.
Q-Rod
11/7/2012-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
I was reacting to the bottom line (as I understand it): The Mets trade Bay and Francisco plus take on $10mil in exchange for Wells and Conger. So its only the Angels getting a saving of cash. The Mets would really only get Conger, who is a questionable though intriguing asset for whom I can’t imagine the Mets would spend $10mil.
Sorry for the lack of clarity but this one is at the outer limits of the brain capacity I’m willing to devote to thinking about potential Met trades
TRS86
11/7/2012-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, yeah. I understand how it looks like they are paying 10M to get Hank but as I said it’s also about obtaining flexibility this year. Thus if they don’t use the money to get another OF then it would be pointless.
TRS86
11/7/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Dang, now TX is giving me a different idea.
Would you trade Johan and Bay for Wells? Not sure what cash would have to be involved there.
Stickguy
11/7/2012-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
I think Real might have made a quick trip toColorado already…
Too much math to do in my head (if I wanted to think, I would go back to work!). But it seems like Wells is a really, really expensive Torres.
I am not really all that fond of taking on longer commitments to crap to get rid of the last year of our crap. Might as well just cut them, and be done with it after 2013.
but, if they can get a catcher that might actually qualify as a ML quality one to build around, then I would take on wells.!
TRS86
11/7/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
The point is to get that young catcher and defer payments this off-season to get the other OF. Thus you actually solve multiple holes THIS off-season. Basically think of it as borrowing 10M so you can get the stuff you need from a loan-shark and then having to pay him 20M the next year.
Q-Rod
11/7/2012-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
I still don’t like it. The Mets don’t need to get much better next season. They should be looking at 2014 and beyond. So Conger fits this profile but not at the cost of so much 2014 cash.
TRS86
11/7/2012-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
True, but again would you still feel that way if in the end they signed Bourn or Upton with the extra cash?
Q-Rod
11/7/2012-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Regarding those guys, am I crazy to care alot about the lost draft pick? Once the Mets landed at #11 I lost whatever tiny hope I had that they’d sign a tendered FA.
Anyway, Bourne is going to Washington and Upton is going to Philly – unless the Yanks or Boston do their thing late in the negotiating process (ie, offer 20/25% more than anyone else and then get hailed as geniuses for playing the market so perfectly).
TRS86
11/7/2012-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
You may be right they might go to those teams. In that case again there’s not much use in the move. We are talking hypotheticals as usual.
Stickguy
11/7/2012-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
I think Philly is a lock to go all in on one of those 2 guys, and would not be surprised to see it be Upton.
Prismo
11/7/2012-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
So in the end I understand where TRS is going with this.
If the Angels went along with it (I don’t think they would), this would make the Mets a little better this season. But it would sacrifice a chunk of $ next season, and we’d have Vernon Wells still on the team.
I’m with stick. Cut Bay, move on from loser players who aren’t worth 1/10th of their salary….and start totally fresh in 2014.
TRS86
11/7/2012-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Prismo, it’s really contingent on the Mets USING that money to fill a long-term need. There are actually decent OF options on the market and you can’t guarantee that next year. Thus if I thought that doing this could help them bring in a guy like BJ Upton and make the team competitive not only in 2014 but next year as well I believe it would be worth it.
Now if they are just gonna save the 10M then yeah, I too would rather just eat Bay and move on.
Stickguy
11/7/2012-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
sounds kinky, but to each his own.
just a good thing you weren’t talking about RA.
TX
11/7/2012-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Would it have been better if it was JJ from Arizona?
Stickguy
11/7/2012-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
I am not really sure they will then take this magical 10mill this season and get a “real” player with it. could maybe add a better filler piece, making 2013 a little more competitive, but playoff caliber? Hard to say.
To me, it all hinges on how good Conger is, because 10mill is a lot to invest in a prospect catcher (since bottom line, that seems to be what the end result is(.
TX
11/7/2012-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
That’s really the crux of it all. If they are shutting it down, cutting Bay and just roughing it another year is probably the way to go. I hope they don’t, but I guess we Hope & Change…
TRS86
11/7/2012-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
True but it’s again part of the loan for the next year as well as the fact of what is a guy worth over the full contract as well.
As you said if they didn’t invest the extra money then why do it?
Stickguy
11/7/2012-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
oh, and again, hinges even more on what they do with Wright and Dickey.
TRS86
11/7/2012-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Of course.
If you are trading Wright and Dickey, there certainly is no point in this trade.
Q-Rod
11/7/2012-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
I think it’s a very strong possibility that the Mets trade Dickey in December.
TRS86
11/7/2012-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
As long as the return is good then I am fine with that.
Stickguy
11/7/2012-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
can they ship out Wright too?
SaltyGary
11/7/2012-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
OH HAPPY DAYS!!!! Mr. N you ready to create the best breaking news post eva?!?!?!?!