In our evening edition of “According To Sources” we give you this from Fox Sports Ken Rosenthal. Ken Rosenthal tweeted that sources say the “Mets made offer to Wright. Wright’s side made counter-offer. Details of proposals not known.”
According To Sources History
- 10/6/2012 – it’s conceivable Wright and Dickey will have new deals in place, at least in principle, by the time the World Series begins later this month.
- 10/9/2012 – The Mets are expected to open negotiations with an offer for somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million for star third baseman David Wright.
- 10/10/2012 – David Wright’s camp intends to milk talks and draw things out until at least after the World Series, in hopes of reaching a better compromise at the last minute.
- 10/13/2012 – Mets could schedule a meeting and begin formal contract negotiations next week & it’s too early to tell if it’s still possible for either player to be signed this month.
- 10/25/2012 – Contract negotiations between the Mets and Wright & Dickey remain very preliminary and have not advanced to the point of talking years or dollars and they are still talking about when to really get talking.
- 11/6/2012 – The Mets are “not close” to a resolution with either Wright or Dickey.
- 11/7/2012 – Discussions regarding Dickey’s contract extension could see “a resolution before the month ends”.
- 11/8/2012 – Mets are not expressing the same optimism with R.A. Dickey in regards to “progressing, albeit slowly, in completing a long-term extension”.
- 11/8/2012 – Mets are “showing little interest in signing Dickey to extension” and are “discussing him in trades”.
- 11/9/2012 – Speculation that Dickey wanted a Oliver Perez type deal is “completely incorrect” and that a decision to sign or trade Dickey after the NL Cy Young winner is announced could be resolved pretty quickly”.
- 11/13/2012 – Mets made Wright an offer and Wright’s people have made a counter offer.
51 comments
Stick
11/13/2012-11:02pm at 11:02 pm (UTC -4)
given the snail’s pace that the Mets work at, this really should be a weekly feature at best, and most likely monthly would be plenty often enough.
I am actually dumbfounded that it really looks like they might tuck their nuts away, and just cement in the 2012 for years to come by overpaying for Wright, and missing the sell high window on dickey.
They could have saved a bunch of money hiring an accountant to take care of the financial restructuring, and letting Ricco and a couple of interns from City college handle the FO duties, since they pretty much don’t do jack shit doodle.
gategem
11/14/2012-4:51am at 4:51 am (UTC -4)
I’m assuming that from a financial perspective the FO decided it would be better to sign Wright then trade him. They probably concluded that in re-signing Wright the incoming resources either exceed or balance out the additional payroll. Perhaps they also intend to economize elsewhere to offset Wrights new contract. From a purely baseball perspective I tend to agree with you. However, I believe the long term baseball side of the equation is overwhelmed by the immediate financial side.
TRS86
11/14/2012-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Well it has been brought up by multiple people but is this being pushed by Sandy or the Wilpons? Also I keep going back to that story about the Mets possibly using marketing money to help pay for Wright’s contract. I am completely new to that idea and wonder how often it’s done, how much would come from that and if it’s a wise business decision?
Lets say they take 5M out of the marketing budget each year to pay for Wright. Do they make up that much in sales because of it? How large is the marketing budget? Do they just take down 5 billboards and that covers it? I have absolutely no idea.
Stickguy
11/14/2012-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
might be just semantics? The team obviously has a certain amount of money to spend on all operations, including marketing, minor leagues, draft, and ML payroll. so they can allocate those funds to whichever theoretical category they want, and I assume teams do it all the time. Really they seem to be saying that we will just consider part of his contract being marketing cost, so they will spend less on something else related to that.
I guess they could have just kept the GCL team mothballed, and spent that money instead? All seems to come out of the same pocket eventually!
I actually thought it sounded more like when teams sign a player to at least partially a personal services contract to go beyond their player deal.
as to Wright in general, it is not really just the money that bothers me, it is missing the opportunity to make the team better on the field for a future run. Assume that some extra payroll frees up in the next few years, and they can go back to 120-130. In that case, Wright at 18mill won’t be a problem, but if he is dying off on the field it will be!
TX
11/14/2012-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Woo Hoo! Sign Wright! Trade Dickey!
Stickguy
11/14/2012-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Knog is currently on a flight to Seattle, coming out to flog you within an inch of your life. Or to get some good beer. Something like that.
TX
11/14/2012-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
I’ll buy the 1st, he gets the next 2 after said flogging.
I’ll stand by my theory that in an RA trade, the return would be significant and the team has enough depth at SP to recover. Vs. Trading Wright, you need to directly fill his spot ASAP and hopefully fill another 1-2 holes with his return. Is that possible? yeah, it’s possible, but not probable. You are hoping that 2+ prospects turn into something special, and I will point continually towards Grave’s series on trading superstar talent. It’s not often that more than one prospect traded turns into something special.
Stickguy
11/14/2012-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I still vote trade them both, but I can see your position on it.
I am also looking for some excitement, so am not focusing on downstream impact as much… Just blow the mother up, and start having some fun! wheel and deal baby!
as to replacing him (Wright) you would have to be comfortable that Flores was ultimately the man, and you would roll with guys like Lutz and other fillers initially until Wilmer was ready (if he did not earn job out of ST). Unless of course, one of the deals brought back a guy like Olt to take over 3B
wanny
11/14/2012-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
of course, depending upon the returns, i agree with you to trade them both. it took me a while to get to this point. I was going back and forth between leaning toward TX’s position and Knog’s.
I am there, in part, because better players than Wright have been lousy long term signs — they all are eventually. He hasn’t proven to me that he is the same guy he was pre back injury and beaning (at the same time it would be nice if a pitcher had to pitch to him).
More importantly, the Mets simply will not be good without an infusion of young players. And while these trades ordinarily favor the team trading the for the star, I have to trust Sandy and team to ID good young players.
Dickey is easier for me to trade. It keeps being stated that knuckleballers pitch forever. However, he is more of a hybrid than the others because he throws harder and has to have additional stress on his arm. He does not have a clean health history (baseball-wise). He does not have a long track record like the Niekros either.
I did appreciate Dave Cameron’s article on knuckleballers at age 37 but that article only examine d knuckleballers at that agree regardless of any other criteria.
Dickey is also at his highest possible value and there will be demand for him. Can’t imagine the AL East teams couldn’t use a guy like Dickey with Johnson and Buehrle both being imported recently…
wanny
11/14/2012-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
age… not agree.
TX
11/14/2012-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Honestly, I’ll not be heartbroken (well, I will have a good cry in the bathroom, then have a beer to make it all better), but if Wright and Dickey are both traded, I certainly see the point and know that it would be for the infusion of talent that the team needs at the higher minors and major league level. I just prefer to keep Wright.
TRS86
11/14/2012-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
I am still torn on Wright just because the offense would be godawful without him and as TX said you aren’t going to replace that offense AND add to the offense with trading him.
Dickey, he’s gotta go. I love the guy but he can bring back offense and well… they don’t have any.
Prismo
11/14/2012-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
New depressing thing: The Toronto Blue Jays payroll is going to be higher than the Mets payroll. Sigh.
Stickguy
11/14/2012-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
I thought the blue jays tended to have fairly high payrolls normally anyway? They were never a low budget team like the Pirates or KC.
I guess the Mets could have done this deal instead. Not sure what that means going back. Tejada for sure, and who else?
not that it actually filled the main holes on the team!
Hmmm, I wonder what you could get for Ruben?
Prismo
11/14/2012-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it’s a trade, strictly speaking of the players, that would have greatly benefited the Mets. The main pieces we would have gotten were a SS (have one) and a couple SPs (our rotation is fine). Oh, and a cruddy catcher and a below average outfielder. I don’t think it fills the needs of the Mets.
Prismo
11/14/2012-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
I guess you could do it…and have a rotation of:
Dickey, Johnson, Buerhle, Harvey, Santana/Gee.
I have to think Wheeler (or Harvey) would go to the Marlins in the trade. Tejada would be gone. And probably 3 more top top prospects.
The Mets could trade Niese to another team for an outfielder.
Of course, our payroll would skyrocket.
TX
11/14/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
well, 1 USD does equal 1.00079 CAD….
Prismo
11/14/2012-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
This is what SHOULD happen:
1. The Wilpons should sell the team to an owner who isn’t broke.
2. The new owner should sign Dickey and Wright, because it’s the right baseball move for a winning franchise to make.
3. The new owner should increase the payroll to what it SHOULD be, maybe in the $120MM range.
4. ???????
5. Win the World Series.
What bothers me most about the trade Dickey/Wright talk, is that it’s really only relevant because our payroll is so much lower than what it should be for a team shelling out over $40MM this season to Santana and Bay alone. I promise you if our payroll was higher, or if we didn’t have one of those two guys’ salaries, everyone would be happy to sign both players.
Given the current handicaps, trading one or both is very viable, but only because the Wilpons are SH**TY owners.
Stickguy
11/14/2012-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
#4 reminds me of an old Math joke. In the middle of a giant equation on the board, there is a step called “a miracle occurs”.
One thing about the new mythical owners, are you sure they are going to be willing to run a 10s of millions of $ deficit for a few years, if that is what it takes?
Prismo
11/14/2012-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know how debt works when there’s a sale of a team (maybe someone who does can comment?), but that’s the only reason why the Mets are running at a deficit. Take away the silly debt thanks to our moronic owners and I’m pretty certain they’d be turning a fine profit.
I also think many Mets fans would become immediately more interested in the team if there was an ownership change and a related increase in payroll.
gategem
11/14/2012-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
I attended a seminar a number of years ago where one of the presenters was about to reveal the results of many years of work in the DSP field. Before he began he mentioned that core to his work was an assumption that was universally accepted (don’t recall what the assumption was). One of the other attendees raised his hand and after the presenting Professor reluctantly acknowledged that individual he was informed that recently the assumption was proven to be false thus invalidating years of work. The Professor was silent for a few moments then proceeded with the presentation as if the assumption was correct. So what’s the point here? I don’t know and I don’t care I just thought it was an interesting story.
TX
11/14/2012-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
I agree. If the payroll was 120-130 million, this would all be a moot point.
wanny
11/14/2012-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
disagree. if the payroll was 120m but had the likes of Jason Bay, Ollie Perez and the other clowns wasting this team’s money…
I am not sure that another $30m even makes this team competitive right now. To be competitive this team needs at least two starting outfielders, a starting catcher and a couple of late inning relievers.
The math doesn’t add up.
TX
11/14/2012-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
I was meaning more about the re-signing of Wright and Dickey. I do think they could sign a Ludwick type to help in the OF, but no, just the money alone doesn’t fix the situation. It would make it easier to re-sign the stars of the team though.
Prismo
11/14/2012-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I think it allows the Mets to trade prospects for salaried players without having to shed additional salary to do so.
For example, trading for Justin Upton (making $10MM this season) and not needing to get rid of Dickey or Niese to make his salary fit. Not suggesting Upton; just using him as an example.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Who are you trading for Justin Upton if you aren’t trading Wright, Niese, or Dickey? Wilmer and the gang? There are almost no offensive prospects anywhere near ready in the entire system.
Prismo
11/14/2012-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
“Not suggesting Upton; just using him as an example”
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
See below, I completely agree. You can’t buy your way to the top unless you are willing to spend 200M and even then it’s not a certainty and usually not sustainable. The old Mets way of throwing money at problems EVERY year didn’t work. Lets hope that the new group is moving towards sustainable winning seasons.
wanny
11/14/2012-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
and they have less than 30m to get to 120 if they extend dickey and wright at market rate.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, that would be a good thing for Prismo to look at but lets say Wright gets 19 and Dickey gets 12 where does that put the team payroll for 2014?
Prismo
11/14/2012-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve played that game before. Not doing the calculations again, but I believe it leaves the Mets with around a $65-70MM salary, heavily dependent on arbitration figures for Murphy/Ike/Parnell/Thole/Gee/Tejada.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmm, still seems a little low but I too would have to spend too much time looking at it. I guess too we would need the Bay details.
TRS86
11/14/2012-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Prismo, I am not so sure even with a high payroll I wouldn’t be in the trade Dickey camp. The problem is that they aren’t close enough to solve all of our problems in FA even if they had the money. At some point even teams with money have to move on from older players and use them to infuse talent into the team, especially teams that often gave up their top picks as a result of FA.
If you sign Dickey and Wright and still had another 20M how exactly would you fix the OF and catcher spots long-term? Would adding BJ Upton and Russel Martin really put this team over the top for years to come?
Prismo
11/14/2012-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know, how’d the Twins benefit from the Santana trade?
Prospects are a crap shoot and we’re not getting more than 1 replacement major league player for either Wright or Dickey.
I’m fine with trading them if it’s a good trade, hypothetically, but I don’t think we can expect to fill all our holes by doing so. Unless we were really really really lucky.
TX
11/14/2012-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
This is exactly why I’m comfortable in Trading Dickey, but not Wright! (continues to beat a dead horse…)
But you make a point on trading some of the dregs as a 3-4 for one type trade to get a better player back. Even if you did that for, say, Jed Lowrie, you should be able to trade 3 prospects or so, and your middle infield of Lowrie and Tejada would be looking nice.
Stickguy
11/14/2012-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
it is always a 2 part equation. What you get back in the trade (the prospects) and what you do with the money saved.
in the Twins case, the trade really became the 4 stiffs they got, + Morneau or that catcher dude (whichever guys they resigned that would not be there if Santana had gotten 30% of the budget instead!)
Prismo
11/14/2012-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Well TRS and crew seem to think adding $20MM to a payroll does absolutely nothing.
So basically trading Wright for a couple “stiffs” is all that would amount to. I don’t see how one can argue that getting rid of Wright’s salary is better than adding a blank $20MM to the payroll. Same thing.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Its’ all about the return. I am guessing that is why the Mets are making every attempt to re-sign Wright because the return isn’t great enough to make up for the loss in revenue and talent.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Well keep in mind that Johan got to basically dictate where he went and forced the Twins hand in taking a deal that most likely in a free world they wouldn’t have came close to taking.
wanny
11/14/2012-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
One rumor circulating the Internets is that Mike Pelfrey is “not necessarily” done with the Mets. He would be worth retaining if another SP is dealt.
Man, is that guy ever frustrating? Every time he seems to look like he’s getting it, he loses it. This injury came at a terrible time for him.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
I think he could actually be a big key for the Mets in 2013. He very easily could take the Chris Young role and be that #6/7 starter that inevitably will be needed when Johan goes down instead of rushing Wheeler in May.
Stickguy
11/14/2012-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
also a potential deadline trade chip.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
True I guess, but I would imagine they would just shift him to the pen first.
Prismo
11/14/2012-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
NEWSFLASH:
The Mets haven’t traded away even a MID level prospect since 2008!!!!! And that’s only if you count Mike Carp as a mid level prospect at the time, which is debatable. WHY DO WE NEED TO TRADE FOR MORE PROSPECTS. WHY DO WE NOT HAVE ENOUGH AFTER HOARDING THEM FOR SEVERAL YEARS. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS FRANCHISE. WHAT THE EFF HAS BEEN GOING ON IN THE LAST 5 YEARS WHERE EVEN AFTER NOT TRADING AWAY 1 PROSPECT WE STILL DON’T HAVE ONE VIABLE OUTFIELDER IN THE ORGANIZATION.
*deep breaths*
Stickguy
11/14/2012-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
might want to switch to decaf…
well, traditionally, lousy drafting, poor work in IFA, and horrific player development. All of which was supposed to be high on Sandy’s honey-do list when he arrived!
I re-read, and realized you were focused on OFs (we have had some decent prospects promoted. Just a few!)
I think OF has been bad luck, combined with lousy draft strategy (going for 1-dimensional guys) , and not finding any in IFA. Too many lefites, and guys that have major flaws in their came (contact issues or no D).
but you are right, it seems that after 2 years of hoarding, we should be bursting at the seams with guys near the top, and instead, it is a barren wasteland outside of lower level pitching.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
There is no way you could fix this disaster of a minor league system in 2 years. None.
It is completely void of offense above A ball except for Flores which we still don’t even know what position he plays.
All the years of not spending on the draft, giving up picks and playing it safe, like drafting a damn reliever in the first rounds, has come back to roost and it will take more than 2 years to fix that mess and if you want it any quicker than that then you have to trade guys like Beltran, Wright or Dickey.
TRS86
11/14/2012-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Ask Omar and his attempts to make the team only competitive on the MLB level right away. Drafting lots of college players and low risk low cost players as well. Throw that in with giving away draft picks and drafting only pitchers and LH without a position and you get what was one of the worst minor league systems in the majors when he left.
wanny
11/14/2012-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
In Omar’s defense, several young Mets (who are no longer prospects) came to NY on his watch: Tejada, Niese, Murphy, Davis and hopefully Duda will all be contributors. And Harvey is his too.
None are stars (harvey has a chance) but all except Duda look like solid contributors.
The Mets certainly need Nimmo and Cecchini and Plawecki to develop into impact bats, though.
TRS86
11/14/2012-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
I hope you are wrong on Niese and Harvey and they become stars. It is true that some of these guys are solid contributors but you can also see the impact of poor drafting strategies.
I agree on at least 2 of those 3 you posted as needing to be big time players. Cecchini we have a little depth there but Nimmo and Plawball need to for sure.
wanny
11/14/2012-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
Definitely agree about poor drafting strategy. Omar was always looking for the quick fix – even through the draft.
I havent ruled out Harvey as a star.
Regardless of the team’s depth at SS (there is very little at 2B by the way) we need Cecchini to develop simply because he is a first round pick and overall the team is sorely lacking offensive prospects. If Tejada develops, as I think he will, into a solid regular SS, Cecchini could have value in a trade too.
SaltyGary
11/14/2012-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
Does anyone else think that since SNY will have Dickey live during the CY Young announcement, that it will become a epic fail and he will lose? Can’t they just have him call in on some “breaking news” segment so the jinx won’t be on?