The pessimistic side of me is a little frightened that David Wright and R.A. Dickey haven’t been signed yet.
This past week, the Yankees sold almost half of the Yes Network for like 3 billion dollars..let’s just say, they release A-Rod and target David Wright.
They are willing to give up ONE position player on their team (and they are willing to eat money from their contract to boot!)
Today’s question: Would you pull the trigger on a deal like this? What player would you want from them?
31 comments
Stickguy
11/25/2012-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
well, this scenario is certainly out there!
I would say No, for a couple of reasons. 1 being it is the Yankees, but that is not primary.
mostly because, trading your best player for 1 guy is not likely to do much. They need to replace him (or his output) and plug another hole. And of course, there is going to be a salary mismatch.
They also don’t have an OF that you want to build around. Or a catcher. So that pretty much leaves Cano as the guy. So it would be Wright for Cano. Unless you wanted one of their SP (an old Japanese Ace, fat man CC, or that Nova dude?)
darknova306
11/25/2012-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Eh, I don’t see how that would accomplish anything. I’m on record as being thoroughly in favor of trading Wright as the best option for the Mets’ long term success. That being said, it’s not ‘trade him for the sake of trading him’, which is what simply swapping him for another player would be.
For it to make sense to trade Wright, it needs to be for a package that fills several needs, such as a high level catching prospect and an OF that could contribute in a year or two. The Mets have too many gaping holes to compete anytime soon if they simply sign Wright and Dickey, so you can’t just swap either of them 1-for-1 with some other team. That’s counterproductive.
kingman 26
11/25/2012-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
Will, ARod is 37 and is owed 115 mil—there’s no chance whatsoever they are releasing him.
And what I fear is that they give Wright 7/125+, and frankly, I am growing tired of how so many fans are in such utter denial about the fact that Wright has not put together a full, great year since 2008, and he has been a player worth this sort of money for precisely three months of the last two years.
LG
11/25/2012-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
Not to take this off course. But frankly, I get tired of fans who act like Wright hasn’t been worth a lot just b/c he dropped off a bit from what he had done in Shea.
His 2012 season as a whole was worth that easily. Yes the second half wasn’t particularly good, but thats why you don’t judge seasons solely based off a couple months. Those “3 months” that you speak of where he was “worth” the big contract…..if he had done that over the full year would have been worth A LOT more than just 7/125.
He had one real lousy year in 2011 when he was hurt…but even then he still posted a 115 OPS+. His other two “bad” years of 2009-2010…he still put up OPS+ of 124 and 131…those numbers are worth quite a bit of money. Fans just seem to get mad (myself included) b/c Wright hasn’t been as consistently great in recent years as he was in 2005-2008….but if he had been as great these past few yrs as he was back then..we’d be talking a lot more than just 7/125. Looking at what the market has been for other players in recent years, that’s a reasonable deal for Wright.
I do hope the Mets somehow sign him for less than that…the more money saved the better (though I probably shouldn’t trust them to spend the money saved)…but that’s hardly an outlandish contract for a player. And most “baseball execs” seem to agree since that is where those numbers really came from. They weren’t just numbers suggested by Wright’s reps or by fans…those were estimates from people throughout the league on what approximate starting points for negotiations would be.
LG
11/25/2012-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
*meant to say in the last paragraph that its hardly an outlandish contract for a player of Wright’s caliber given what some others have gotten.
*and that the contract estimates from baseball people on approximately what negotiations should be
kingman 26
11/25/2012-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
Ridiculous. He’d be worth “A LOT more than just 7/125.” Such as? More than any player in the game? Pujols? ARod in his prime?
“…dropped off a bit”–??? This is not a serious remark.
“…if he had done that over the full year would have been worth A LOT more than just 7/125.”–He HAS NOT done this over a full year since 2008!
This is what I mean–you are in fantasyland about Wright, as many are. He has topped a 3 WAR for ONE HALF of one of the last FOUR seasons. This is a 7/125+ player?
I love Wright, from 2005–2008 he was a great young star, but from 2009–2012 he was not the same player, by any standard or measure.
In 2011 and the second half of 2012 he was not a star, not an all-star, not anything remotely close to what he was from 2005–2008.
He will be 31 years old when this new deal starts. I have asked many without receiving ONE response—name me ONE deal like this for a player beginning at age 31 which has turned out well.
Go and calculate Wright’s WAR from 2005–2008 then compare it to 2009–2012. Go calculate his annual HR rate from 2005–2008 then 2009–2012.
Then ask yourself what we might expect in the next TWO four year periods.
Wright is not an 18-20 million a year player beginning at age 31, especially for a team with dramatically lowered payrolls, which is part of it.
If this was the Omar era? Sure, give him the deal. But payroll is still shrinking, and we have zero reason to expect it to be high enough again so that we can afford the many other things we need.
And I am sorry, but while Wright is by all accounts a great guy, a hard worker, a fine charitable guy who plays through pain, etc., the team needs change. If Wright is the “Face of the Franchise” he is–again, NOT primarily his fault–the face of losing, the face of choking, and the face of collapse EVERY year.
The team needs a NEW face, not a 7-year insane extension for a player who has been in decline since they moved to Citi.
Finally, folks cite Citi and not having Beltran/Delgado around him as reasons for the decline—this will not change anytime soon. He’ll be playing 81 games a year in Citi with zero big star bats around him for at least the next year or two.
darknova306
11/25/2012-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
I think part of the fanbase’s mentality on Wright is that the Mets haven’t given us much to feel good about in a long time in the win column, so a lot of folks seek out happy Mets feelings wherever they can. In this case it’s the sentimentality that comes along with the irrelevant esoteric stuff like “Wright is the Captain”, “face of the franchise”, “lifelong Met”, etc. Winning is the thing that really matters, and I have yet to see anything compelling that points to the Mets contending anytime soon by signing Wright to that ludicrous extension.
Wright is in decline, has been in decline for several years, and will very likely never be the player he once was. The 05-08 Wright was worth that contract, the current Wright is not. Simple.
LG
11/25/2012-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
I agree about that “face of the franchise” and especially the “captain” nonsense. I could deal without all that crap.
But I do think Wright’s production is worth the approximately 18 mil a year he’d get in this rumored deal. Wright of 2005-2008 would be worth well more than that.
The argument can be made about years being risky…and about the team being far away. That I can understand to a degree. But I am not one to put full trust in “prospects” panning out….and if the Mets do keep what talent they do have…I don’t think the team is as far away as some do.
kingman 26
11/25/2012-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
“I don’t think the team is as far away as some do.”
People have been saying that since 2009.
Yes, the rotation has great potential. With Mejia/Familia/Edgin/Carson and Parnell, the pen could be greatly improved or very mediocre again.
The power, speed, and overall fielding give zero reason right now for anyone to expect any improvement.
And the overall offense and starting eight appear–with or without Wright–to be an astonishingly mediocre group.
darknova306
11/25/2012-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
And with Flores hitting well these days, there could be a decent replacement at 3B sooner than later, so why not use Wright to bring in talent at other positions of need (OF, C) and try to actually build a solid lineup a year or two down the road?
Stick
11/25/2012-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
that is my bigger fear. I know that 2013 is likely to be similar to 2012, and some form of transition year. Maybe 2014 can actually start showing the new shape of the team, depending on how the new found financial freedom is used and the young SP takes shape.
so say that 2015 they are finally ready. What level of Wright are you getting by then, vs. what could you be getting out of Flores + the couple ML ready or super close guys you traded him for?
srt
11/25/2012-6:10pm at 6:10 pm (UTC -4)
I’m a little leery of Flores’ defense.
I’ve seen comparisons of his bat in the category of Cabrera (Cabrera? Really?) – and that no one is complaining about his less than stellar defense, especially after getting that elusive triple crown this past season.
If Wright is traded, I just hope that Flores’ bat is everything they project it to be and that is defense isn’t as bad as I’m reading.
darknova306
11/25/2012-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
If you don’t think the team is as far away as some of us do, aren’t you trusting that a very specific pair of prospects pan out at a very high level? The only way signing Wright and Dickey can lead to the remote possibility of the team contending is if Wheeler and Harvey both become front-line aces in the next year plus, and remain that way for a while.
kingman 26
11/25/2012-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
“Wright is in decline, has been in decline for several years, and will very likely never be the player he once was. The 05-08 Wright was worth that contract, the current Wright is not. Simple.”
There’s nothing more to say than this utter, complete truth.
Disputing it is not possible using numbers (traditional or Saber), observations, or team results.
LG
11/25/2012-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Doesn’t sound particularly enticing.
The Yankees have a very good offense mainly b/c their lineup is pretty deep with a lot of good players….they don’t have a bunch of auto-outs or wasted spots in their lineup…and that together leads to a good offense. But looking at it in terms of individual players, Wright is a better player than most all the Yankee regulars.
The only guy who has been better of late is Cano (but their 2012 seasons were close in a lot of measures) and he is similarly a FA after 2013 and the early rumors are looking for about 200 mil. So might be an upgrade (though maybe his numbers come down a bit not hitting in that Yankees lineup or in those AL East parks), but he’d probably be even harder to sign long term.
And realistically (though we aren’t talking inn realism here) the Yanks wouldn’t make that deal either
srt
11/25/2012-6:07pm at 6:07 pm (UTC -4)
No, no and no.
I know some of you aren’t in this camp but I’m anxiously awaiting news of both a Dickey and Wright extension.
kingman 26
11/25/2012-6:23pm at 6:23 pm (UTC -4)
Dickey yes, Wright no.
Stick
11/25/2012-6:28pm at 6:28 pm (UTC -4)
Really? Who knew!
Stick
11/25/2012-7:45pm at 7:45 pm (UTC -4)
Random question that no one will read.
Is it just me, or is the “logic” of the sandy-hater crowd completely counter intuitive?
on one hand, they claim that Sandy’s only mission is to save the team for the Wilpons (IOW, make them money).
But they also say that he is completely disinterested in doing anything to improve the product on the field, in order to try and win more games.
Is it possible that there are people that think someone who has been a GM or team VP for decades (and of course, went to Haaavaaad) does not understand the correlation between winning and drawing more fans, and that fans buying tickets makes the team more money?
I guess I should not be surprised by the hypocrisy of being indignant that they kept Hairston since they had no other OFs (to try and win more games, and put a reasonable approximation of a ML quality team on the field) while ranting and raving that they are not trying hard enough to win games!
TX
11/25/2012-8:00pm at 8:00 pm (UTC -4)
What’s stupid about the “just trying to make the Wilpons money” theory is that having a good product on the field is part of that. They think that just chopping payroll is what he/they is trying to accomplish. Dummies.
darknova306
11/25/2012-8:06pm at 8:06 pm (UTC -4)
The sad thing is that this comment section gets used to whine about fans that don’t post here…
Stick
11/25/2012-8:49pm at 8:49 pm (UTC -4)
No whine in there. and no individual reference. Just a commentary on what seems to be a common theme, and a desire to see if the more logical people here see any merit to the argument.
darknova306
11/25/2012-9:24pm at 9:24 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I couldn’t resist. Seriously, though, the so called “Sandy haters” don’t matter to me cause they twist everything that happens to fit their narrative.
If someone wants to enlighten me as to what he could have done with his resources at the deadline this season to keep them competitive, I’d love to hear it. He’s made some good moves and some bad moves, but hasn’t had the resources to do much serious overhauling. The biggest thing hurting him is that there’s almost zero positional talent in the minors, so what the hell is he supposed to do to put a serious contender on the field? Oh I know, he’s supposed to sign Wright and Dickey to big extensions so we can see the same mostly talentless crapfest on the field for years to come…
Mr North Jersey
11/25/2012-8:14pm at 8:14 pm (UTC -4)
So what was the preferred beer of choice this holiday weekend?
Stick
11/25/2012-8:47pm at 8:47 pm (UTC -4)
My son is 21 now, and was home tuesday night, so I took him along on the liquor store run. Needless to say, it cost me more than normal. For a college kid with a work study job, he has good taste in beer and liquor (Hendricks Gin is really, really expensive!)
Beer? let’s see, we had Bass, Harpoon winter, Guiness and Seirra autumn brown all (used for Black and tans), some summer shandys, Yuenglings and Blue Moon. I mostly had the Moons, Bass and Yuengling.
darknova306
11/25/2012-8:53pm at 8:53 pm (UTC -4)
Ithaca Flower Power, Sierra Nevada Celebration, and some Founders Harvest Ale. My dad’s coworkers that we had over brought rum on top of all the beer, so I was able to tolerate the hell out of another family holiday gathering
Mr North Jersey
11/25/2012-9:29pm at 9:29 pm (UTC -4)
I knew when I asked I was going to get at least 1 beer I would wonder if it was legit or I was just being teased but once again I learn something new as Ithaca Flower Power is legit.
http://ithacabeer.com/flower-power/
darknova306
11/25/2012-9:38pm at 9:38 pm (UTC -4)
Haha, yeah Flower Power is one of my favorite IPAs actually. Especially when I have access to it fresh from the brewery about 6 miles from where I’m currently living.
Stick
11/25/2012-10:29pm at 10:29 pm (UTC -4)
did not realize you were that close to Ithaca now. I thought you were up in Pen Yan, or are you just commuting?
We were in Itaca last weekend to see my son (it was the last football game, and the seniors did a concert afterwards). Went to Joe’s for dinner.
I would like to see the new Brewery. We last went to the old store front when they were still building the new place.
darknova306
11/25/2012-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
I won’t be in Penn Yan fully until the brewery is up and running and in production mode so I can finally get a full income. Until then, I’m living with the parents outside the east side of Ithaca (several miles past Cornell’s vet school on 366) and commuting to Penn Yan a couple days a week for pilot brews and other work. Hopefully we’ll have final funding approval soon and can get the large scale brewing equipment ordered.
So yeah, stuck in town until likely the March-April time frame. Until then it’s pretty much just drinking at Bandwagon Brewpub and Ithaca Ale House, while planning new beer recipes.
And I don’t think I’ve been in Joe’s in at least 15 years. Still a good experience?
Stick
11/25/2012-10:54pm at 10:54 pm (UTC -4)
food was good. Big plate of excellent spaghetti and meatballs + garlic bread for $10. And the place was nice.