According to Mike Puma, part of the hold up with the Wright negotiations deals with deferred money:
Talks on Wright-Mets megadeal hit snag over deferred dollars
“According to an industry source with knowledge of the negotiations, deferred money is an issue. So the $119 million-129 million the Mets are willing to pay Wright for seven years (making the deal $135M-$145M counting the 2013 season) beginning in 2014 could translate into significantly less in present-day dollars, depending upon how much is deferred.”
OK so this doesn’t sound good. Unless the Mets are trying to free up money to go out and sign someone this off-season then needing Wright to defer any of his money just reeks of the stench of them not being able to afford the deal. If signing Wright means that they can’t afford the talent to go around him even in 2014 then you have no choice but to trade him. It isn’t about Wright not being a great player, not being a franchise player, not being a superstar, or being in decline. It’s the fact that NO player can single-handedly carry a team. If Ike Davis had came in last year and picked up where he left off in 2011 or if Duda had developed or Murphy hit for any power at all then you could see how the current team could backup Wright and Wright could lead the offense. However, with Duda looking more and more like his inverse… A Dud (sorry Stick) Murphy looking like Castillo without the steals and Ike Davis looking to Mike Jacobs for guidance in the first half last year there are too many questions IF they are still unable to add talent by trade or FA.
I am OK with the Mets wishing and hoping in 2013 and looking to compete in 2014. I said that was the year they were shooting for all along. However, if it comes out that the Mets need Wright to defer money not only in 2013 but 2014 as well then it gives me little to no hope other than rooting for the development of our own players and I can do that with or without Wright.
64 comments
wanny
11/28/2012-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Are the Mets trying to save face by offering a lot of money they know he wont take so they can look like good guys before trading him?
I don’t blame him for being unwilling to defer a lot of the money.
But the reports are so all over the place it’s difficult to even put 2 and 2 together to figure what is really happening.
Trade Wright and Dickey and do a true rebuilding around Harvey and Wheeler.
TRS86
11/28/2012-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
I can get behind your last sentence, especially if it’s true they can’t afford to add talent around these guys. I still say regardless of Wright I don’t think they have a choice but to trade Dickey. They have got to add a RH OF with pop one way or another and obviously they can’t sign one in FA and there really aren’t many out there. To add that to the lineup it’s most likely gonna have to be through trade and teams don’t trade MLB ready OF with pop for scrubs.
wanny
11/28/2012-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Assuming that they have to defer Wright’s money it is clear that they will not be able to add any talent around him. The only way they will become competitive is by getting younger and cheaper.
These deferred and backloaded contracts are pure evil anyway. Santana’s backload is crippling right now.
TRS86
11/28/2012-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think that backloaded contracts are that evil pending on the team planning well around them. In the end the team actually saves overall money by backloading them but they have to prepare for that. Obviously I don’t trust the Wilpons to plan well around it.
However, I completely agree and have said so since day one. If they can’t afford to surround Wright with talent then you gotta trade him.
TX
11/28/2012-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
So if I read this right, they are looking to rip up his extension, sign him to an 8 year deal with a much lower first year salary? Something similar to Reyes taking less with the Fish?
TRS86
11/28/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Either that or he gets 16M or less in 2014 as well which is why it’s so concerning.
TX
11/28/2012-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
And considering all the money coming off the books for 2014, the only thing I can think of is poor financial standing and the upcoming debt payments that are needed in the next 1-2 years. If they are bugging out about that, Wilpons are toast.
TRS86
11/28/2012-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. But also if that is true and they are seeing the fact they might have to sell, the buyers aren’t going to want a big time backloaded deal for a player who has 10-5 rights.
TX
11/28/2012-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Honestly, it may help them in selling if there is NOT a backloaded deal, but this is NYC!!!! The list of people who would be lining up to buy the Mets would be long and considering the conglomerate that bought the Dodgers and then dropped about a billion in salary (give or take twenty bucks), one whopper of a contract isn’t going to slow down any sale.
I’d say the Dodgers are more comparable to the Mets than the Astros, based on markets and such, but when you consider the Astros sold for 600 million and while they have no real long term money commitments, they have nothing on their roster from the majors all the way on down to single A. They are a black hole and won’t be competitive for 5 years. I would figure the Mets would snag something similar, if not slightly under, what the Dodgers sold for, then back out the debt stuff.
srt
11/28/2012-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
This.
I really wish SA didn’t do as good a job as he did in the past 2 years and the Wilpons would have been forced to sell.
Talk about hanging on by their fingernails.
srt
11/28/2012-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
Ii thought I read recently that once they picked up the option, it’s a done deal. Didn’t know they could rip that up.
TX
11/28/2012-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
I would think if it is mutual, and the players association ok’s it, then they can do just about anything.
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
I am pretty sure they can as long as the new deal total AAV is higher than the replaced one.
TRS86
11/28/2012-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Nice article that sums up all of it:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/11/28/hartnett-mets-reported-mega-offer-is-a-dilemma-for-david-wright/
TX
11/28/2012-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
When I think of all the teams my dad rooted for, that would by extension be my teams, he chose well in the Devils and Steelers. And then we have the Mets… sigh…
SaltyGary
11/28/2012-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
It’s a Mike Puma article, enough said.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
“It isn’t about Wright not being a great player, not being a franchise player, not being a superstar, or being in decline.”
He is NOT a great player anymore.
He is NOT a franchise player.
He is NOT a superstar.
He has been in decline for FOUR YEARS.
Denial, thy name is most of the Met fan base.
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Kingman while I can debate those as true or false it really isn’t about those. Wright is still a very good player and worth a lot of money and thus will get paid very well by someone.
However, the issue is as with any player if the Mets sign him and then can’t afford to surround him with talent then it is all moot.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Agreed 100% and this was absolutely not targeted at you. Sure he is very good. But he’s not close to a franchise superstar anymore, if he ever was.
I guess I should avoid this issue if I can…just cannot understand it.
Again, NOT meaning you, but how can so many want this deal regardless of the ramifications if it means we can afford nothing else?
People really would rather lose with Wright than win without him. That is unfathomable.
Stick
11/28/2012-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
bottom line, if the team can’t afford to sign a player of his caliber for $18mill/year (before the deferrals!) then the team is screwed regardless until they go bankrupt and sell.
srt
11/28/2012-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
So true.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
And no, you cannot debate Wright not being a superstar or being in decline. These are indisputable facts.
Come on TRS!
srt
11/28/2012-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
I 100% agree Wright is no superstar.
In decline? I’m not so sure.
Do I expect him to have the type of season going forward he did in the first 3 years of his career? Probably not. I don’t expect him to be a 30/30 man again.
However, he’s a career .300 hitter still with some power still. He plays a creditable 3rd base but I’ve got my worries on that arm in the latter years of that contract.
He’s the only RH hitter worth a damn on this team right now. If we’re going to trade him, just dump anyone worth anything and start over. Trading the only RH bat we have and trying to piece together a halfway competitive team for 2012 would be pointless, IMO.
Either do it right and go all in on the rebuild, or spend the money needed (within reason) to get some needed talent on this team.
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Obviously I don’t live and breathe by fangraphs but lets not pretend that Wright hasn’t been worth a lot of money even in his down years. He’s a 3B that can hit. That’s worth a lot of money and Fangraphs agrees.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3787&position=3B#value
Also for those lovers of WAR, his WAR last year was his highest since 2007 and 2nd highest of his career.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, but his WAR was skewered by defense and a ridiculous 1st half—what were his WAR splits?
Probably something like 10.5/2.
TRS86
11/28/2012-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
No idea but the first half counts too.
Prismo
11/28/2012-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
No it doesn’t TRS.
TRS86
11/28/2012-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
My bad. I forgot how to play these sample size games.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
LOL! You guys are hilarious.
3/4 of the last two years he is mediocre, and he is MVP-like for 1/4 of the last 2 years.
Yes, this is a TINY, microscopic sample size with which to judge!
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Sure I can.
Again, if you only see one side of this issue Kingman then really maybe you do need to take a step back.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Of course I see both sides as I always do.
But calling Wright a superstar is absolutely ridiculous.
And saying that he has been the same player from 2009-2012 as he was from 2005-2008 is even more ridiculous.
Sure he is very good, sure he is hugely popular, sure he brings in a LOT of money for the Wilpons, sure he does good off-field work when not getting drunk in public with really hot women, but is he in the class of Posey, Cabrera, Trout, Votto, Cano, Verlander, Price, King Felix, Kershaw, or even Beltre?
Is he?
Would any of those guys’ teams even consider trading any of those guys for Wright even up?
TRS86
11/28/2012-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
Obviously he is not as good as some of those guys. But he doesn’t have to be to be worth a lot of money. As for Cano
Last 5 years: .305, .354, . 510, .864
Wright
Last 5 years: .293, .376, .486, .862
I am also under the impression that 3B is much tougher to find a good defensive and hitting player.
That being said, look at his stats even during the last 3 years compared to the rest of the 3B. This is considering the injuries as well. Granted are those past him?
3B:
10th in games played
5th in PA
6th in hits
7th in HR
4th in runs
5th in RBI
2nd in SB
5th in WAR
The 4 guys ahead of him in WAR?
Beltre, Longoria, Headley and Zimmerman and those guys aren’t light years ahead of him in WAR either. What do those guys except for Headley have in common? They all got paid! Wright is going to get his money from someone either the Mets or another team because he is still a very valuable player.
TRS86
11/28/2012-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Oh and as to your last point about trading even up… of course not. How many of those guys only have one year on their deal AND the team would be looking to trade star for star?
kingman 26
11/28/2012-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Well, we can go around and around; sure he is very good.
I just think this is way too much of a commitment considering his last four years.
Let’s agree to disagree.
And let’s pray he has a great 2013.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
TRS, your stats make a fine case; really they do.
I just think that I feel 100% that the deal will not work out, and sooner rather than later.
Again, let’s agree to disagree, and believe me, nothing would make me happier in my Met world than to be here in one year eating large, heaping piles of orange and blue crow my friend.
I hope he has his best year ever.
Alas, in Citi, with zero protection, it seems so very unlikely.
But #5 jerseys will be available in new colors and styles!!
kingman 26
11/28/2012-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
But overall, this is a great piece with great points, and precisely why I do not want this deal.
OF COURSE they are having trouble affording anything. They have dramatically reduced revenues and massive debt.
The Bay agreement was, as some of us instantly said, not some brilliant part of any “plan”–it was a totally sad and desperate move done to afford to keep the damn store open through the winter.
This deal–if consummated–guarantees another couple of losing years at the very least, unless Dickey is re-signed, and Niese/Harvey/Wheeler all become serious number 1s or number 2s.
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, if you re-sign Dickey and Wright as you admit they are most likely barely able to afford Wright, adding Dickey into that means you will get NO help from outside either by trade or FA. IF in fact they are broke, unless we think that Flores and a bunch of scrubs can be traded for cheap MLB ready talent then they don’t need Dickey or Wright.
Considering the position the Mets are in, they almost have to trade Dickey regardless. He has too much value.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
As long as we get more than Trumbo!
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Trumbo and a reliever…. LOL.
Got a question for you Kingman, I know defense is an issue but would you trade Dickey for Ike if we didn’t have Ike?
kingman 26
11/28/2012-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a great question.
Right now? No.
If Ike puts up a first half in 2013 similar to his 2010 or his 2012 second half? Yeah, maybe.
TRS86
11/28/2012-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
See I think you too focused on now instead of future. Which is strange because you seem more focused on future with Wright than now.
You get one year of Dickey and many more years of a Trumbo or Ike.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
Not if we give Dickey a 3-year extension!
TRS, I PROMISE I am focused on the future.
I just honestly think Dickey can be at least the 2010-2011 Dickey for another few years.
I also think that we can compete in 2014 with the rotation we could have with Dickey.
Trumbo produces, but another guy who cannot draw a walk and Ks constantly? We cannot have that.
Stick
11/28/2012-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
so much confusion.
but it does not look good if the Mets are trying to kick the can way down the street. Though I suppose it fits with what DW said he wanted to see (trying to win). basically, the logic is, if we pay you a ton right now, that is it. So if you want us to get more players now, you have to help out by deferring some $.
Cliff lee did this big tiem (10mill year 1 vs. 25 after that). So did reyes.
Whether they did it on purpose or not, it really does seem that DW is quickly getting backed into the “just another greedy, all about me ballpalyer” corner, and is going to end up looking like the bad guy if he gets shipped out ot town (Party at Knogs place!)
boldib
11/28/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Daniel Murphy looking like Castillo?
Murphy had 49 extra base hits last year. Castillo didn’t have that many in the 4 years with the Mets combined
— over 1200 AB’s.
Come on.
Oh, and by the way, Murph was 10 for 12 in stolen bases last year.
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
It’s an exaggeration but come on his SLG was barely over .400.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Castillo was infinitely better at ALL aspects of fielding than Murphy, was a great bunter, and as good of an average hitter. Murph’s doubles are the ONLY facet of his game which was better than Castillo’s.
Castillo is one of the most unfairly maligned players in team history.
Castillo was a better player than Murphy.
TX
11/28/2012-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
If “great bunter” is a bullet point on your resume, I hope it is covered up by the staple…
boldib
11/28/2012-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Murphy is a transplanted 3rd baseman still learning the postition, so I have no argument there, though it might not be the fairest point of attack.
I know you have skewered Murph many times here.
I don’t agree with your assessment.
Along the lines of Castillo’s slugging pct I’ll relate this.
When the Mets traded J Payton midseason Valentine was asked if he would miss him in the lineup. Valentine replied something like, “Jay had 10 extra base hits so far this year. Why would I miss him?”
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Again, I know I exaggerated the fact of him SLG like Castillo but did you expect a SLG just over .400 from Murphy and is that enough to make up for his defense?
kingman 26
11/28/2012-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
I like Murphy.
He’s just not nearly as good as some think, that’s all.
I never skewer him; he’s just not very valuable as an everyday player.
No power, does not walk, poor fielder, poor baserunner.
Not many strengths.
However, if Wright is traded, I would love to see how he would handle 3B while Flores develops, and I would love to have Murphy as a supersub off the bench/PH.
boldib
11/28/2012-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
TRS/Kong.
I agree he has his weaknesses. But, I also think he’s got a ton of potential and he’s still relatively young.
Then again, he could go on in the Met tradition of total bust.
Yeah, his D sucks but it’s a work in progress. I think Murph, in a decent lineup, which the Mets don’t have, is a real good piece to the makeup of the team.
Watching Castillo play then is like watching Thole now.
As someone wrote over at 2 Guys Talking Mets Baseball, “not only is he bad, he’s boring.” I couldn’t put it any better. They both fill me with Met despair.
TRS86
11/28/2012-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I get what you are saying but I was just really disappointed with Murphy’s bat. I wonder if defense got in his head too much?
Either way considering his defense, you have to hit much better than a .735 OPS to make up for it.
kingman 26
11/28/2012-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
I just totally disagree about Murphy getting any better—I think the league has largely figured him out, and this is what he is going to be.
wanny
11/28/2012-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Here are two fantasy trades that would be nice for the Mets:
1. Wright (with a new extension) and Familia to AZ for Bauer, Pollock and Davidson.
AZ has a black hole at 3B and Wright makes them a contender in the division with their young pitching. Familia gives them another power arm in the pen that Kevin Towers always seems to crave.
Rumors are they Bauer hasn’t been receptive to AZ coaching. I will take my chances with his talent that he Wheeler and Harvey can mature together likes Smoltz Glavine and Maddux (you know what I mean). Pollock is a solid all around right handed OF prospect. Davidson could be the future at 3B. Actually profiles a lot like Wright.
AZ is probably not at the point of trading Bauer… but this all makes sense to me.
2. Dickey to Texas for Mike Olt and Wilmer Font.
Olt should be ready to play and hit for power and field defensively at 3B now. If Davidson comes quickly then you have the option of moving Ike Davis after the season. Good problem to have nonetheless.
Font has a big big arm. Could be the closer of the near future.
These deals leave plenty of money to buy a real outfielder and catcher on the free agent market. Will also have to buy a stopgap starter until Wheeler arrives or a real starter that could result in Gee being dealt when Wheeler arrives.
I’d spend money on the following free agents:
Russell Martin
Reed Johnson (maybe Grady Sizemore?)
Ryan Theriot (unless Cedeno comes back cheaply)
Brandon McCarthy
I would also see about Pelfrey or Chris Young on incentive deals.
srt
11/28/2012-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Interesting idea, Wanny. I can see the value in this.
But…did you see the rumor on what Martin is looking for? 40 MIL/4 years. LOL…good luck with that, Russell.
wanny
11/28/2012-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I’d be comfortable with 2 for 20 for martin. 4? Nah…
With my plan, I could also trade Gee for C help with Bauer joining the rotation immediately.
My lineup would look something like:
Tejada SS
Pollock RF
Murphy 2B
Davis 1B
Olt 3B
Duda LF
Martin C
Niewenhuis/Johnson CF
SP: Santana, Harvey, Niese, McCarthy, Bauer
RP: Francisco, Parnell, Font, Mejia, Edgin, Carson, Pelfrey/Gee/E. Ramirez
Bench: Baxter OF, Johnson/Niewenhuis OF, Thole C, Theriot IF, Turner IF
This team still doesn’t hit a hell of a lot. But should be more consistent and has real high end starting pitching.
TX
11/28/2012-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Can you give me the cliff notes on Olt and Pollack? I know that Olt had back issues, but wasn’t sure what they projected to be like. Sorry, I’m not being lazy, just busy.
wanny
11/28/2012-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Olt’s minor league line is .282 .391.521. #43 BA prospect. Supplemental first rounder for Texas in 2010 from UConn. Good mitt in the corner IF. Big guy — probably too big to play corner OF where Texas experimented with him. Was promoted straight from AA where he hit 288 .398 .579 with 28 HRs in 354 ABs.
Pollack is a right handed guy who probably projects to put up Angel Pagan type numbers from this year. No one ++ tool but does a little of everything and most likely has better instincts than Pagan! 2009 1st rounder with .303 .354.418 Milb line which improved K zone control throughout. At AAA this season: .318 .369 .411
TRS86
11/28/2012-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Sorry but I am not letting any Pollock on my team… Oh Pollack? Yeah I’m cool with that. <>
As for Wanny’s idea it’s nice to dream but way too many moving parts. Also I am just so unsure of what Dickey and Wright’s values actually are considering they are rentals. Unless of course they provide a window.
TX
11/28/2012-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Based on that, I approve your arm chair GMing. I still think Gose and JP with a lower other prospect is the way to go, but if your plan all fell into place, i wouldn’t kick it out of bed for eating crackers.
wanny
11/28/2012-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Gose has made progress with his ability to get on base. I’d like to see some more progress before playing him at the MLB level.
I’m not an Arencibia fan. Just doesnt make contact and never has. A real hacker.
I don’t know if Toronto is willing to move D’Arnaud but I would move Dickey for D’Arnaud and maybe even something less than Gose.
TX
11/28/2012-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I’d LOVE to see them get D’Arnaud, but i can’t see them moving him. To me, Gose, JP and another mid-level prospect is what would be agreeable to both sides. Gose and D’Arnaud is asking to much. Anything less than JP & Gose + 1 is accepting too little.
I think if Dickey had been 34 or even 35, his value would be sky high. But age is certainly going to dampen anyone’s interest in drop 2 big named people.
Would you do Olt straight up for Dickey (assuming you’ve moved Wright to other pastures)?
wanny
11/28/2012-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
i think you could get another piece with Olt. Maybe not Font, but something.
Stick
11/28/2012-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
well thought out Wanny. I am sure there are endless permutations, and of course you never know what a team will offer, but this is exactly the path the I wanted them to take. Try to cash these 2 chips into an instant boost to the foundation, and go from there.
having a nice base of young, controlled SP already is a huge bonus, and frankly, a better reason to try and cash in on some young position guys.