The 2012 Winter Meetings have come and gone and left these moves to carry on. Those who care can read them all and those that don’t can… come back in 2013. 
- San Diego Padres signed free agent Jason Marquis to a 1 year $3M contract. 12/3/2012
- Washington Nationals resigned free agent Zack Duke to a 1 year deal. 12/3/2012
- Texas Rangers resigned free agent Geovany Soto to a 1 year $2.75M deal. 12/3/2012
- Texas Rangers signed free agent Joakim Soria to a 2 year deal. 12/3/2012
- San Francisco Giants signed free agent Angel Pagan to a 4 year $40M deal. 12/3/2012
- Boston Red Sox signed free agent Mike Napoli to a 3 year $39M deal. 12/3/2012
- Tampa Bay Rays signed free agent James Loney to a 1 year $2M deal. 12/3/2012
- Washington Nationals signed free agent Dan Haren to a 1 year $13M deal. 12/4/2012
- Arizona Diamondbacks signed free agent Eric Hinski to a 1 year deal. 12/4/2012
- Boston Red Sox sign free agent Shane Victorino to a 3 year $39M deal. 12/4/2012
- Houston Astros trade Wilton Lopez and a PTBNL to the Colorado Rockies for Alex White and Alex Gillingham. 12/4/2012
- San Francisco Giants signed free agent Marco Scutaro to a 3 year $20M deal. 12/4/2012
- Miami Marlins trade Yunel Escobar to the Tampa Bay Rays for minor league infielder Derek Dietrich. 12/4/2012
- Baltimore Orioles signed free agent Nate McLouth to a 1 year $2M deal. 12/5/2012
- Seattle Mariners signed free agent Jason Bay to a 1 year deal. 12/5/2012
- Chicago White Sox signed free agent Jeff Keppinger to a 3 year $12M deal. 12/5/2012
- Arizona Diamonbacks signed free agent Eric Chavez to a 1 year $3M deal. 12/5/2012
- St Louis Cardinals signed free agent Randy Choate to a 3 year $7.5M deal. 12/5/2012
- Detroit Tigers traded Andy Oliver to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Ramon Cabrera. 12/5/2012
- Los Angeles Angels signed free agent Sean Burnett to a 2 year deal. 12/5/2012
- Colorado Rockies signed free agent Jeff Frances to a 1 year deal. 12/5/2012
- Los Angeles Angels signed free agent Joe Blanton to a 2 year $15M deal. 12/5/2012
119 comments
SaltyGary
12/6/2012-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Texas need to make their moves so the market can fall in line…
TX
12/6/2012-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
I think once the Grienke thing falls into place, we’ll see some activity.
Add Revere to the Phils for Worley and May. May was the Phils 2nd best rated prospect. Dang, I think that’s a win for the Twinkies, and it also takes one more Bourne player out of the mix (and Hamilton too).
TRS86
12/6/2012-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, crazy deal but the Phillies are obviously still in win now mode. Interesting that they wouldn’t just rather fork it out for Bourn instead.
TRS86
12/6/2012-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Unless they are saving their money for Hamilton that is…
TX
12/6/2012-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
I just vurped a little on that thought.
Stick
12/6/2012-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
that move absolutely would not surprise me. I was thinking Bourne originally, but that would have been done already.
Stick
12/6/2012-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
what, they traded Worley and May for this guy? Wow. seems like a major overpay.
though good for us because IMO they will really miss having the depth Worley provided. Not even sure what their rotation is now after the “big 3″
srt
12/6/2012-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
And you have to wonder about Halladay’s shoulder too….
Stick
12/6/2012-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
oh, I thought this was just the Mets, so I was expecting a blank post.
Prismo
12/6/2012-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
Quick tally of the above shows that 16 teams made a “move” during the meetings, which is roughly half the league.
So, certainly, it means next to nothing that the Mets haven’t done much yet (although I’d wager that extending David Wright counts as something).
srt
12/6/2012-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Queue the conspiracy theorists that Wright’s contract being signed right before winter meetings and announcing it there in Nashville was a coverup for all the moves they knew they weren’t going to make this week.
kingman 26
12/6/2012-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
It’s really strange how some of you just want to believe every word the players and management utter as if nothing in American big business is done for PR effect.
srt
12/6/2012-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I’m kind of the opposite.
I take all of it with a grain of salt. I don’t believe much until it’s a reality.
All GMs do the ‘spin’ thing. It’s mostly all for PR.
kingman 26
12/6/2012-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on that.
But when one looks around baseball, and sees how active the serious, good teams are, and then sees the Mets, once again, doing absolutely nothing, it just tends to magnify the negativity of the situation.
For me at least; I cannot believe it’s really going to probably be another year with Thole and a AAA catcher as his backup, Murphy at 2B, a horrific outfield, and a wing and a prayer in the bullpen along with Parnell.
srt
12/6/2012-5:56pm at 5:56 pm (UTC -4)
But about only half the teams have made any moves so far.
And look at the Yankees. They’ve not done much. Kuroda for 1 year, Pettitte for one year, Mo for one year……that’s a lot of money tied up in some older players for sure.
And they’ve still got a big problem on the left side of their IF and catcher and their OF.
Times…they are a changin’.
kingman 26
12/6/2012-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
It certainly means a lot more than next to nothing.
Often, teams with needs will work hard to fill those needs.
The Mets have needs everywhere aside from 1B, SS, 3B, and the rotation, and did absolutely nothing.
It means they they have absolutely no money to make moves, and it means that their farm system is nearly barren aside from Wheeler and Flores.
Almost every playoff team is up above. The Braves signed Upton, the Phils and Nats are making moves.
It’s really bizarre to think that the Mets’ lack of moves means nothing.
It means–quite clearly–that they have no money and virtually nothing of value to trade.
Almost every team with money that is good and/or desires to get better is out there making moves.
darknova306
12/6/2012-9:03pm at 9:03 pm (UTC -4)
Extending David Wright counts at “we love the status quo of mediocrity as long as there’s a human p.r. machine in place!”
kingman 26
12/6/2012-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
From MLBTR on Rule 5:
Mets take lefty Kyle Lobstein from Rays; traded to Tigers for cash considerations.
No sir, the lack of moves means nothing, and money is NOT the driving factor in everything they do.
TX
12/6/2012-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
Why wouldn’t they do that though. Free pick to get money? sounds cool to me.
kingman 26
12/6/2012-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
LOL! How about getting some frigin PLAYERS??
Almost every bad team drafted someone; no one else drafted someone to earn a few bucks.
Wow, I guess I really am among a tiny minority here.
TRS86
12/6/2012-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
Keep in mind you have to have room on the 40 man and take a chance that the guy you draft is better than the guy you had to take off the list. Assuming the Mets sign anyone, someone else would have to go.
Also, why the heck would you not want to make some cash for just calling out a name?
kingman 26
12/6/2012-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
I guess, but really, doesn’t it kind of reek of some sort of pathetic desperation that their ONLY move was doing this? Even if only symbolically, this move speaks loudly.
Look, I know I might be in the deep end here, but really, there was nothing that Sandy could do to improve the team in any way at these meetings?
Again, look at the activity from so many teams; it’s just depressing that we have again done nothing.
SaltyGary
12/6/2012-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
This transaction says so much doesn’t it.
Dombrowski: Hey Sandy, can you you draft that lobster guy for us, we will buy your plane tickets home.
Alderson: We are in business boys! Tell Ricco to stop showing his legs on the corner and go hail a cab.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
Hahahaha!
kingman 26
12/6/2012-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
You forgot the end of your last sentence Gary:
“…and see if he can jump out without paying!”
greggofboken
12/6/2012-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not troubled by the lack of moves thus far, and find it understandable given what we’re trying to do. Shopping Dickey is paramount, and it makes sense to me that this hasn’t occured w/Greinke still setting the market. At this point, the top-tier outfielders have moved, but that was not the crop we were going to be shopping from anyway — the cast that we are looking at (Ross, Ludwick, Hairston) is currently still out there, though I expect they’ll go soon. No one’s signing relief pitchers yet. We chose to last year, (a flurry of moves, that if quanitity and p.r. meant anything gave the appearance of being proactive). It did not serve us well.
And as for catching, the options are just dreadful. It’s fine with me that they’re trying to net one in trade talks rather than sign any of the unwanted collection that’s out there.
The move with the Tigets was puzzling….but the Tigers approached the Mets for this and in essence we did them a solid by taking the pick for them. (What they saw in the guy is beyond me.)
Just my take on it……
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
This is about as well reasoned of a perspective that I’ve read all day.
kingman 26
12/6/2012-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
Well, this makes sense from a perspective of patience and REALLY trusting that the team is actually trying to do anything.
Sorry, but to me, having been sold the bill of goods on Alderson and his two ex-GM deputies being some sort of dream team in the front office, I find it difficult to believe that–just as we were told and supposed to believe at the 2012 trade deadline–that there is NOTHING out there that could have been done during these meetings.
I definitely used to be in the patient/understanding boat, but I am afraid that when I hear and see the same thing enough, I have to change my perspective.
And while the catching options are not good, Thole, Nickeas, and Recker are just a horrible, horrible group. The outfield and the bullpen are just incredible question marks now as well.
I am not saying we should trade Dickey for a poor return; indeed, I would like to see him re-signed.
But really, there are SO many holes to fill; failing to do anything on top of not signing so many draft picks forces me to confront the reality of this team based on its actions and lack thereof.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Off Topic: Now that the Rule 5 is over I would of liked to have seen if the Mets would of taken the Nats 2B in the Rule 5 had Boston not taken just before him. Also looks like when all was said and done the Mets didn’t lose a player in the draft after all.
Stick
12/6/2012-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
was not really expecting that they would.
Prismo
12/6/2012-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t judge the off-season as a whole until it’s over.
The Mets can’t decide if they’ll trade Dickey/Niese until Grienke is signed. And how the F can Sandy know whether or not he needs to sign a catcher or a RF until that’s all dealt with. You want him to go sign AJ to catch for 9 million and then Toronto calls up and is like “hey Sandy, I think we can do D’Arnaud and another prospect for Dickey and his personal catcher Thole.”
OH SH*T. Sandy just sh*t the bucket wasting half our free agent dollars to appease the Core on a catcher, when we could have gotten a huge catching prospect who’s ready to start in the majors instead. OOPS. Could’ve spent that 9 million on Cody Ross and a decent reliever instead. OOPS.
I am REALLY holding my tongue here, because it’s tough being passive-aggressively called an idiot and not retaliating. But I’ll be somewhat chill, because I don’t like interweb dramas.
Suffice to say the absurd levels of conspiracy-theorems and cynicism is WAY over the top. Like MMO way over the top. Every bleeping thing Sandy does is a cover-up. What kind of lunacy is this!
Prismo
12/6/2012-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
tl;dr: I think I may need a long break from RDM.
Stick
12/6/2012-3:31pm at 3:31 pm (UTC -4)
exactly why I said that they needed to address Dickey and Wright quickly since they essentially clog up (or better siad define) the entire direction of the off seaosn.
I would say though that it should be pretty damned clear by now if Travis D is in play, and if not, they can sign AJ. Probably better to get more talent back for OF say instead of mediocre C talent since it is so damned overpriced at the moment.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
I feel a Rudyard Kipling moment coming on.
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
something, something, something.
Prismo
12/6/2012-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not so much that I mind people’s negative perspectives. But it’s very annoying when my views of patience are directly insulted as if I’m a total moron.
Prismo
12/6/2012-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
Well, scratch part of that. The overly negative perspectives DO annoy me when they’re a silly reply to my own comment. Otherwise, I can generally ignore them.
darknova306
12/6/2012-9:16pm at 9:16 pm (UTC -4)
Because all of our views have to be like Ceetar’s: full of rainbows and unicorns. Sorry, reality isn’t like that.
gategem
12/6/2012-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
OTOH “when you’re up to your ass in alligators, it is hard to remember that your original intention is to drain the swamp”
gategem
12/6/2012-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
Mr. NJ who played Gunga Din in the 1939 movie?
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
Never saw the film so I could answer it but it would require a trip over to IMDB.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-4:59pm at 4:59 pm (UTC -4)
I just looked it up and it was Sam Jaffe who for me though I don’t know him by name I remember him best from the movie The Day the earth stood still. My mom remembers him from Ben Casey.
Stick
12/6/2012-3:50pm at 3:50 pm (UTC -4)
rough day Pris?
putting aside the drama for a minute, I am still something (confused? surpirsed? befuddled?) about the ridiculous lake of moves. yes, I understand the tight payroll. But there are plenty of things that can be done without increasing payroll. And “poor” teams have to be creative, and take risks.
Plus, the FO guys (just count the 2 that are actually in the GM domain) have a track record of making moves, and plenty of them, and some “big” (reserve judgemnet on good of course).
So I scratch my head on this. maybe it is they are trying to walk the line of rebuild but we aren’t? Because if you are going to hold out for the prospect calvery, it would help to have some. So if you aren’t trading vets for prospects, what the hell do you expect to happen?
but you need to try and convery pieces you have into missing parts (in the minors or majors). And some wheeling and dealing to build for the future would be nice.
But just sitting around and doing almost nothing makes no sense, no matter what the mission is (of course, stabilize to keep wilpons afloat was job 1-9). because you have to make the team better/interesting/relevant if you ever want to win and draw fans (because they are linked)
Stick
12/6/2012-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
lack, not lake.
this archaic version of windows without spell check does nothing to save me from my crappy typing skills. though of course that one was just a brain fart.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-3:56pm at 3:56 pm (UTC -4)
But lake was much funnier as I had a vision of possible moves drowning.
Got to keep it loose.
gategem
12/6/2012-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
He’s been watching the TCM movie channel and has become enamored with Veronica Lake.
Prismo
12/6/2012-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
And everyone has permission to complain if we go into the season with an OF of Duda/Kirk/Baxter and Thole/Recker behind the plate.
But it’s way too early for that. Sandy made 3 moves during last year’s winter meetings (off the top of my head) and look where that got the team. The timing of moves doesn’t matter as much as the moves themselves. Let’s give it some time.
Stick
12/6/2012-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
As long as AJ is still available, I have hope!
but please, resolve Dickey ASAP. This just can’t linger on. if they aren’t able to trade him very soon (give it 1 more week) just sign the reasonable extension and move on.
gategem
12/6/2012-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps this may shed some light on the situation. Souses claim that Sandy and company wished to visit the local chicken ranch but found they lacked the resources to pay the girls. David Wright came to the rescue and financed the evening at a modest loan shark interest rate.
srt
12/6/2012-6:01pm at 6:01 pm (UTC -4)
‘And everyone has permission to complain if we go into the season with an OF of Duda/Kirk/Baxter and Thole/Recker behind the plate.’
Agree. However, I ask again….will this surprise anyone?
If Dubs did them a solid and ‘gave’ them another 8 MIL or so to play with for next season, they damn well better do something with that money to improve the big club….now.
kingman 26
12/6/2012-4:21pm at 4:21 pm (UTC -4)
Are the Blue Jays in on the Greinke negotiations? Has anyone, anywhere suggested that the Jays are willing to part with d’Arnaud at all, let alone for Dickey? Arencibia sucks; it’s not like the TEX situation where they very well might be willing to trade either Andrus or Profar.
Are the Royals in on the Greinke talks? How does this affect KC rumors or a deal with them maybe involving Myers or Gordon, assuming there is any fire around that smoke?
And we need 1–2 outfielders; a bullpen arm might be nice too. If Ross is desirable and affordable (big question marks), signing him and a decent reliever really has to little if anything do with Greinke or anyone else, unless finances really are as tight as some suggest.
Don’t take offense; I certainly don’t think you are anything but VERY intelligent. I think it is more of an emotional thing, where people want to think that their team really is trying to get better, when that just might not be the case. I most definitely used to feel this way; I am sorry but I cannot any more. I truly believe that the team has nothing to spend, that Bay and Wright’s situations were handled to help the team survive financially, and that Jeff Wilpon certainly is not exactly a paragon of truth and accuracy—none of this is remotely close to a “conspiracy theory.” It’s all very reasonable interpretation of what has gone on in 2012.
The team did nothing at the trade deadline, failed to sign many of its draft picks, and thus far has done nothing at all to improve the team in the offseason. Re-signing Wright is certainly a major move, but a status quo one.
It’s not at all unreasonable to question Wilpon finances ruling the day, nor is it unreasonable to begin wondering if Alderson really is a very good GM.
Stick
12/6/2012-4:33pm at 4:33 pm (UTC -4)
2 perfectly reasonable things to wonder about. I so far have been woefully underwhelmed with Sandy.
I just can’t get too freaked out about rumors. Most of the ones you hear are bogus, and big names often suddenly sign with a team that was never mentioned as being in the running.
Oh, I actually believe (with SRT) that Sandy was parachuted in to fix the financial mess. The problem is, the job really was the COO role. But, since Jeffy had that office, they had to make him the GM. And it is more of a side job in a way, and not something he has any desire to do.
They would have been much better off shipping Jeffy off to manage some other operation, installing Sandy as the COO, and bringing in one the hot-shot young GM guys to execute the plan under him. Still with no budget, but at least someone that has fresh ideas, and the desire to become a “policy wonk” type wheeling and dealing.
besides, Sandy is only here for another year at most before he wanders away.
srt
12/6/2012-6:03pm at 6:03 pm (UTC -4)
Agree, agree, agree….
Agree with Kong also about Arencibia. While he’s better than nothing – which is what we’ve got right now to go along with Thole – he’s not worth one of Dickey or Niese.
greggofboken
12/6/2012-4:43pm at 4:43 pm (UTC -4)
The Royals, apparently, are unequivcobly out on Dickey.
While the Rangers and Dodgers and their interest in Dickey is directly affected by what happens to Greinke, I believe the other clubs will be as well – albiet indirectly.
Greinke is apparently looking at an offer of upwards of $160M. If he gets anything like that, that’s going to affect all the other pitchers out there — driving their asking price up as well. Which makes Dickey’s $5M for next year just seem ridiculously good and makes him more appealing.
(It may also make his team-friendly extension terms merit a re-consideration on his end.)
Stick
12/6/2012-3:36pm at 3:36 pm (UTC -4)
another key point that I will discuss down here, as it relates to a few postes up above.
Some teams did make moves, but they also lost key players. take the braves for example. Yes, they added Upton, but they lost Bourne. So it is not just moving forward, really more of a replacement. Nats signed haran, but lost jackson (roughly a replacement considering injury issues). And other teams in teh same boat.
Also have to say, the Mets did a masterful job at the “addition by subtraction” game by removing Bay. that has to count for something!
Prismo
12/6/2012-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Given that Jason Bay had a WAR of -0.8 last season. By subtracting him, the Mets actually gain 0.8 WAR.
So yes, addition by subtraction does exist.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
Way Off Topic here but I saw the movie “Skyfall” and let me say it felt like the equivalent to watching a film about Superman being mortal. Very un-007 like for me.
Prismo
12/6/2012-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
My ranking of the Craig movies goes:
Casino Royale: 9/10
Skyfall: 7/10
Quantum of Solace: 5/10 (being generous)
Stick
12/6/2012-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
I liked skyfall a lot. Especially some of the later parts where they got a little campy and paid hommage. Old School baby!
But I cried at the end. About the car, not the people. I like cars better than people.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
You sir are the Ebert to my Siskel.
Prismo
12/6/2012-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
The characters who died were just actors playing a part. But the car…man…that car really got toasted. ;(
gategem
12/6/2012-4:57pm at 4:57 pm (UTC -4)
Top Gear (UK) paid homage to the cars used in all the Bond movies. Exceptional show pointing out that initially they had to beg, steal, borrow and rent vehicles for Dr. No. That quickly changed after a few movies.
Stick
12/6/2012-5:06pm at 5:06 pm (UTC -4)
I love that show but never saw that episode.
darknova306
12/6/2012-9:31pm at 9:31 pm (UTC -4)
That’s because cars are way better than people. I can’t think of any argument against that.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
LoL don’t know why but for some reason was nostalgic for this old commercial.
SaltyGary
12/6/2012-5:11pm at 5:11 pm (UTC -4)
Are you anticipating a move from Sandy? Only problem is unlike the commercial it might not be worth the wait.
Mr North Jersey
12/6/2012-5:22pm at 5:22 pm (UTC -4)
Hahaha you have to admit I set you up good for that one. Surprised no one jumped on it sooner. Your right though it might not be worth the wait.
SaltyGary
12/6/2012-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
Pwned
Stick
12/6/2012-10:00pm at 10:00 pm (UTC -4)
OT, but at least the rumor mill is indicating Amaro and the Phils have not shaken all their old ways.
‘
It is reported they are going heavy after the 36 (37 next year) YO Michael Young to fill their gaping hole at 3B. Yuck. For them. Which of course is a good thing.
Should probably only be giving him a 3 year deal though!
darknova306
12/6/2012-10:03pm at 10:03 pm (UTC -4)
I thought I read that the Phils were looking to trade a reliever for him and get cash in return to reduce their commitment. Regardless, that would be one hell of an expensive infield. And they’d still be a better team than the Mets. Sigh…
wanny
12/6/2012-10:30pm at 10:30 pm (UTC -4)
the deal had texas paying 10m of 16m owed to young but he apparently nixed it with his ntc.
Stick
12/6/2012-11:08pm at 11:08 pm (UTC -4)
at least he is staying with a good team with a great shot at the playoffs. So can’t fault him there.
I was just poking fun at the Phils normal obsession with old guys.
wanny
12/6/2012-11:18pm at 11:18 pm (UTC -4)
wish i was old like revere.
srt
12/7/2012-7:51am at 7:51 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know what the Phillies are doing.
They’re operating like they’re ‘all in’ again this year when…if you look at their organization, they probably should be looking at a little rebuild or at least retooling.
Their ‘core’ is getting old and their farm system is kind of bare. As currently constructed, I don’t see them as the NL east champs.
They’ve got no 3rd baseman.
- No BP to speak of outside of a closer.
- No real OF at the moment.
- Just traded their 5th starter.
- They too need a catcher and Ruiz is going to miss the first 25 games.
Then there’s the questions of:
- how long will Utley’s knees hold up and how many games can he realistically play?
- is Halladay’s shoulder healed?
kingman 26
12/7/2012-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
Phils were 34-22 over the last roughly 1/3 of the season once they were more healthy, and that was with a mediocre year from Halladay.
If he is healthy and productive in 2013, horrible as it may be for you and Stick, the Phils will be quite good again.
They are the recent Mets’ diametric opposite—they know how to win while we know how to lose.
Stickguy
12/7/2012-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
I said at the end of the season that I expected them to be back in the playoffs. Hey, I hate them with a passion, but I ain’t an idjit.
Stickguy
12/7/2012-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
though I will say, that they are dependent on guys having a miraculous revitalization health wise than are most teams.
kingman 26
12/7/2012-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
Very true of course.
But if Howard and Utley and Halladay start out healthy…
srt
12/7/2012-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, that’s where I was going.
Their core seems to be:
Howard
Utley
Rollins
Halladay
Lee
Hamels
Only 2 of those guys are young.
Halladay finished the year with arm trouble and Utley’s knees are more of a discussion over there than Beltran’s were.
Can’t really say they’re going to be in the hunt until we see how they fill out the many holes they’ve got.
wanny
12/6/2012-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
i think it was mnj who identified some rule v possibilities. they were good calls as both were selected before the mets’ turn came up, with one first overall.
with the rule changes there is unlikely to be many johan santanas in the rule v again.
TX
12/7/2012-12:08am at 12:08 am (UTC -4)
TOR back in on Dickey. Go Go Gadget Gose and D’Arnaud!
Stick
12/7/2012-12:12am at 12:12 am (UTC -4)
you put your left foot in you put your left foot and you shake it all about.
I was going to do a 2nd verse with RA in it, but this is a family operation, right?
TX
12/7/2012-12:15am at 12:15 am (UTC -4)
More than two shakes…
darknova306
12/7/2012-12:17am at 12:17 am (UTC -4)
And now I’ve got the Inspector Gadget theme stuck in my head. Thank you, sir!
Q-Rod
12/7/2012-8:09am at 8:09 am (UTC -4)
Are any if the rumored packages for Dickey worthy of consideration?
Olt+
Gose+
Gordon/Lee
I’m feeling that Gose has a bunch of tools and is only 22, plus Arencibia, seems like a decent take if the Mets are insistent on getting younger in exchange for Dickey. I think Sandy holds out for more — and gets it.
Q-Rod
12/7/2012-8:12am at 8:12 am (UTC -4)
Sorry for the double post.
Q-Rod
12/7/2012-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
Are any if the rumored packages for Dickey worthy of consideration?
Olt+
Gose+
Gordon/Lee
I’m feeling that Gose has a bunch of tools and is only 22, plus Arencibia, seems like a decent take if the Mets are insistent on getting younger in exchange for Dickey. But i think and hope that Sandy holds out for more — and gets it.
wanny
12/7/2012-8:27am at 8:27 am (UTC -4)
Olt + is worth it if they think Olt can play OF (which John Harper says is their thought). He is the only player in this list with potential to be an impact player quickly.
The other packages don’t do it for me. Arencibia stinks. Gordon may not hit and Lee is a long ways away still.
wanny
12/7/2012-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
But it seems as if Texas is going to get greinke rather than trade dickey.
TRS86
12/7/2012-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Here’s a question Wanny, would they do both?
Here is their listed depth chart at pitcher.
1. M. Harrison
2. Y. Darvish
3. D. Holland
4. A. Ogando
5. M. Perez
6. C. Lewis
Adding Greinke and Dickey wouldn’t be overkill at all. It would make them possibly the front runner in the AL regardless of Hamilton.
Greinke
Dickey
Darvish
Harrison
Holland/Ogando/Lewis
It would also allow them to trade a backend guy as part of another deal. And other than a blocked prospect, what does it cost them?
greggofboken
12/7/2012-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
They have been discussing the possibility of moving Holland.
TRS86
12/7/2012-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Yup and moving him most likely allows you to fill a decent need while also adding Greinke and Dickey? I am not so sure that they wouldn’t do that anyway. They still have enough to most likely get Upton too if they wanted.
kingman 26
12/7/2012-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
The media-driven fascination with Arencibia is mind-boggling.
Thole, for his career, has a much better BA and OBP, hits more doubles in far fewer AB, and blows away Arencibia’s K/BBs.
And their dWARs are very similar.
How anyone thinks Arencibia is anything more than a throw-in mediocrity is absolutely unreal.
TRS86
12/7/2012-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
I guess there is also the defense and game calling ability that need to be factored in. That being said, just as the blog father assumes, he should be able to be gotten for prospects not proven players.
kingman 26
12/7/2012-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
I know nothing about Arencibia’s game-calling. But with TC and Warthen calling the shots, is that even relevant?
As for the defense, the dWAR and caught stealing numbers are VERY similar. Aside from HR, Thole is his equal or vast superior in every offensive stat.
TRS86
12/7/2012-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, again I think it just depends on how the team views his catching ability compared to Thole.
Q-Rod
12/7/2012-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
It’s possible, though, that the Mets throw Thole into the Dickey deal since he seems to d adept at catching the knuckler. That makes Arencibia a bit more than a throw in. In any event, the key guy in a Toronto deal is Gose.
kingman 26
12/7/2012-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Sorry, not a fan of his either.
Mediocre plate discipline in the minors, and an awful lot of times caught stealing, which seems to largely negate any speed he has.
Gose and Arencibia would be an atrocious package for Dickey.
If that’s the best we can do we should most definitely keep R.A.
TRS86
12/7/2012-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
His plate discipline is starting to come around having .360′s and .349 the last 3 years but yeah I really am looking more for a power hitter.
Prismo
12/7/2012-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
I can’t believe there’s so much talk about this bum. The only reason to trade a prospect for him would be if we needed to trade away Thole in a deal with Dickey.
kingman 26
12/7/2012-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
It’s astonishing really. Kind of like the Orlando Hudson thing magnified and taken to the next level.
The guy cannot hit OR get on base—his BB/K #s are revolting.
Seems like d’Arnaud or no deal with Toronto, which is fine with me.
And as you did hint at yesterday, should TEX miss out on Greinke, Sandy should immediately put the hammer on them for Profar or Andrus+ for R.A.
THAT would be nice.
greggofboken
12/7/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
The reason Olt in the outfield is such a sore spot is the current makeup of the team which has Duda (definitely), Murphy (arguably, though I’d argue the opposite side of this) and Thole (converted first baseman) all playing out of position and the team so defensively dreadful.
To add a fourth player to this mix seems to perpetuate the problem and the thinking that caused it. Were the Mets track record not so poor in this regard, it wouldn’t seem like such a big deal. But it is poor. And while there’s been a lot of turnover since these missteps were first made, it’s the same organizational proclivity.
With no track record to base it off of, we’re left to the suppositions of our scouts. So it’s nervous-making.
(I argue the other side with Murphy, because even though his background was at third, he handled it atrociously. The truth is he has no “natural” position in my view.)
TRS86
12/7/2012-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
To me the best fits are Texas and Anaheim, especially losing out on Greinke if the other nets him. I would also keep an eye on a desperate Dodgers team.
As for Texas Olt+ a guy like Michael Kirkman a young LHRP who has even splits and had a decent year last year? Or Joey Butler a 26 year old RH OF that has decent pop and speed while being an OBP machine.
Prismo
12/7/2012-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Olt would be a GREAT get. Did you see his stats in AA last season? .977 OPS in 95 games, 28 home runs. I do question his defense in RF though as he’s only played 3 games there in the minors and 2 in the majors (1 error).
Obviously if he can only play 3rd and 1st…he’s useless on our team.
TX
12/7/2012-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Duda can’t play OF either…
Prismo
12/7/2012-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Yep and if he doesn’t hit at least 30 home runs this year and at least marginally increase his defense I hope to not see him back on the team.
TX
12/7/2012-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Me either
kingman 26
12/7/2012-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Where does Olt play?
I think he has five games as a pro in the OF.
Duda and Olt in the OF?
Why not just play with five infielders and two OF?
Prismo
12/7/2012-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
Just because he hasn’t played much OF doesn’t mean he can’t. Remember when Bryce Harper was a catcher?
The guy hasn’t even played in AAA yet. I don’t think we’re qualified to assess his defensive limitations.
TX
12/7/2012-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Same could be say for Braun, who plays average OF, but was a 3B coming up through the minors and his first year on the bigs.
If for some reason we do acquire Gose, whoever is playing in RF automatically becomes nicknamed ‘Maverick’ and both players need to have “Highway to the Danger Zone” as their coming to bat music.
Prismo
12/7/2012-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
FRISCO — Double-A Frisco infielder Mike Olt played right field last Saturday. It was not a one-time appearance. Olt will continue to play the outfield on occasion as a way to increase his versatility and possibly make him an option at the Major League level.
Frisco manager Steve Buechele gave the organization a positive review of Olt’s first time out there.
“Steve Buechele said he looked like he’s played there his whole life,” Rangers senior director of player development Tim Purpura said. “The theory is to make him as versatile as we possibly can in case there is a need here. He’s an athlete, he can do a lot of things on a baseball field.”
Prismo
12/7/2012-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
As I said, it’s a big question mark (for us). But there is NO reason for us to rule it out as a possibility. Just because Duda stinks doesn’t mean every converted outfielder can’t catch a ball.
TRS86
12/7/2012-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Besides that, we shouldn’t be making any trades banking on Duda being a permanent member of the team. Hell slide Olt in LF and Kirk in CF and still go get a RF. You would have extra money from trading Dickey.
kingman 26
12/7/2012-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
He played 3 games in the OF.
And Harper is really kind of an unrealistic guy to compare others to with his overall game and tools.
Sure, Olt looks good, but if we deal with TEX, and if they miss out on Greinke and are desperate for a starter, and since they know and like R.A., seems to me you somehow must manage to get either Profar or Andrus; expand the deal if you can.
Olt has about 100 G above A ball and would be asked to change positions.
Profar or Andrus or keep Dickey and try to trade him mid-season if you don’t sign him.
TRS86
12/7/2012-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
You aren’t getting Profar or Andrus for Dickey when they wouldn’t even trade them for Upton.
Also, without seeing him we only have reports.
“If I can keep Moreland out of the outfield, that’s what I want to do,” Washington said. “Gary has been working with Olt since he came up and said he can get the job done. The kid has a little speed and can catch fly balls.”
“Being a corner infield guy, he’s got instincts and you have to have instincts,” Pettis said. “It’s always just going to be a matter of reading the ball off the bat. I just want him to make the routine play and hit the cutoff man. He will grow into it as he plays.”
Olt played three games in right field at Double-A Frisco this season, but had never worked in the outfield at any point before that.
“I felt good at Frisco,” Olt said. “It felt like I’d been out there for a while.”
kingman 26
12/7/2012-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Maybe, maybe not TRS.
Texas–quite clearly–needs starting pitching. They have one of the game’s best offenses.
Who would have made more of a difference for them in 2012, Dickey or Upton? Not even close.
Dickey could be the final piece they need to win it all; Upton is another good hitter in a fine lineup; they are not getting to the next level by adding Upton.
Upton surely has more long-term value than Dickey, but over the last three years Dickey has been the more valuable player.
TRS86
12/7/2012-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
You are forgetting the fact they are deciding between Greinke and Hamilton….
Again, they aren’t trading Profar or Andrus for a one year rental. Especially not a 38 year old knuckleballer.
I love RA and I think he’s great but I think you are way over valuing him at this point.
TX
12/7/2012-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Dickey will not be a one year rental. There is no way he is traded without already being extended or allowing the team acquiring him to have a negotiation window. That is the only way his value to the Mets and the team acquiring him will be maximized.
TRS86
12/7/2012-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Eh, they may not do a window but I think considering the teams unless it’s KC there will be a great chance of him signing an extension with the acquiring team soon after.
wanny
12/7/2012-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
I would hope no one would close the window on Dickey.