Last Sunday I made some bold predictions for moves that I thought the Mets would make during last weeks Winter Meetings in Nashville Tennessee.
First off I said there was a 60/40 chance R.A. Dickey is signed to a contract extension:
Wrong ! Contract talks – as well as talks to deal the knuckle baller are still on going.
I then went on to predict that there was a 60/40 chance that pitcher, Jon Niese would be traded:
Wrong again !
I expected the Mets to sign outfielder Matt Diaz of the Braves:
Diaz has yet to sign with a team, and it appears he is not on the Mets radar.
The Mets would sign a backup catcher:
So how many of my Winter Meetings predictions have come true – Nada none, bupkis !
The moral of this story is that it is hard to gauge the trade market – and to make predictions is a great way to fill the empty space on you computer screen. The one thing that is for certain is that there will be moves made to fill out the Mets roster by Opening Day – just what new players will fill it out are anyone’s guess !
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today includes:
The original Mets “Crazy Horse“- shortstop , Tim Foli is 62 (1950). Foli played with the Mets from ’70-’72 and again from ’78-’79 as a reserve infielder.
The New York Mets purchased the contract of outfielder, Richie Ashburn from the Chicago Cubs on December 8, 1961. Asburn was the first Mets player to hit over .300. He would retire after the ’62 season.
The New York Mets traded utility infielder, Elio Chacon and starting pitcher, Tracy Stallard to the St. Louis Cardinals for outfielder, Johnny Lewis and middle reliever, Gordie Richardson on December 8, 1964.
The New York Mets traded former Rookie of the Year starting pitcher, Jon Matlack and first baseman/outfielder, John Milner to the Texas Rangers for first baseman, Willie Montanez, reserve outfielders, Ken Henderson and Tom Grieve on December 8, 1977. In My opinion this ranks up there as one of the worst trades in franchise history.
The New York Mets traded pitcher, Jerry Koosman to the Minnesota Twins for reliever, Jesse Orosco and Greg Field on December 8, 1978. Trading Koosman enraged an already disenfranchised fan base, but Orosco would come into his own 6 years later as one of the top closers in the game.
The New York Mets traded utility man, Bob Bailor and relief pitcher, Carlos Diaz to the Los Angeles Dodgers for starting pitcher, Sid Fernandez and utility infielder, Ross Jones on December 8, 1983. This is probably the most overlooked trade of then general manager, Frank Cashen’s tenure.
The Florida Marlins signed first baseman, Dave Magadan of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 8, 1992. I wish the Mets never let him go .
The Florida Marlins signed starting Al Leiter of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 8, 2004. Leiter is one of the more maligned players in Mets history. He pitched extremely well in the 7 years he was a Met. He posted a record of 95-67 with a E.R.A of 3.42 but the fans saw him more as a streaky pitcher and he lived up to his reputation as a clubhouse lawyer.
Mo Vaughn practices transcendental meditation !
37 comments
srt
12/8/2012-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Agree with you about it’s difficult to gauge the trade market right about now.
From what I’m reading though, the problem isn’t this FO, it’s ownership. Just set the payroll, sign the checks and stay the hell out of it Jeffey….you know next to nothing about fielding a competitive team.
gategem
12/8/2012-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
With the resurgence of the NY Knicks basketball team (14-4 as I write this) the Wilpons have now established themselves as the worst owner of a New York professional franchise.
darknova306
12/8/2012-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
None of this surprised me, Rusty. I never expected them to do much of anything at the Winter Meetings. I know everyone wants to believe that all the bad juju is in the past and we’re looking at a brighter future where the Wilpons will spend and Sandy will wheel and deal, but I’ll believe any of that when I see it.
About the only move I actually think could happen will be Dickey getting traded, I just hope it’s not for a package involving Arencibia. Still, I’m fully expecting a Dickey contract and a winter-long vacation.
Stick
12/8/2012-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I am really starting to give up hope. And I have long since abandoned any thought that the FO would come in and actually make some moves (bold or otherwise) to try and revitalize the mess.
Now, I really believe that Sandy never had the faintest interest in anything GM related, and was only focused on fixing the balance sheet. And JP is just cashing checks, and probably running a side business up in Mass. How much time could they possibly be investing in the job when nothing ever happens?
Would not surprise me at all at this point if nothing else happens. Including the unthinkable, rolling into the season with Dickey playing out the contract.
I know we thought having Sandy in place was going to neutralize Jeffy, but sadly, it could be that he was taking a more active role in the personnel side of the house.
greggofboken
12/8/2012-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
I’m extremely sensitive to this concern. Until recently though, I saw little reason to believe that Alderson was operating with a fair degree of autonomy (albeit with the imposed financial restrictions). The cutting bait on the contracts of Ollie, Castillo, and Bay; the hiring and retention of Collins (rather than headline-grabbing, p.r. boosting Backman), the extension of Niese, the departure of Hojo and Mookie — all these things are things I don’t believe would have been done were Jeff really involved and dictating things.
The negotations with Wright and Dickey however have his thumbprints all over them — so my antennae are up….where they had not been previously.
(Why doesn’t Fred send him off to mastermind the acquisition of a soccer team?)
srt
12/8/2012-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
‘(Why doesn’t Fred send him off to mastermind the acquisition of a soccer team?)’
Sounds like a plan to me, greg.
The more I’m reading, the more angry I’m getting at this whole scenario.
SA comes in and does exactly what I believe he was hired to do for the Wilpons: save the team for them.
Now that it looks like that’s been accomplished, Jeff sticks his nose back into the running of the FO.
I realize the owners have last say and it’s their team.
But dang….do they want to win or don’t they? Who is better qualified to make these baseball decisions? It’s certainly not Jeff Wilpon, IMO.
kingman 26
12/8/2012-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
Again 4D, I feel that “wanting to win” is not even on the plate of options for the Wilpons right now.
Their financial desperation rules the day.
It’s why Reyes had to be kept around to sell tickets at the expense of letting him walk for nothing, it’s why the ultra-popular Wright was re-signed for all that money, and it’s why so many draft picks were not signed (I’d like to hear the Ceetar-types explain to me how THAT is part of the “plan” for rebuilding), and it is why nothing at all has been done thus far in the off-season aside from re-signing St. Dimples and doing the strange Bay deal, which was also clearly done for them to creatively raise some money for the present.
Wish I was wrong, but, thus far, all evidence supports the above.
srt
12/8/2012-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Reading that Jon Harper article on Dickey and reading about what he had to say on SNY Daily News Live yesterday about this whole situation leads me to believe SA has very little autonomy in what’s going on.
It’s been speculated that SA would have rather traded Wright – but ownership wanted him signed.
Harper is now saying that SA wants to sign Dickey but ownership has a problem with Dickey:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/haper-mets-team-knuckle-pact-article-1.1215205
‘Again, what’s the problem? It doesn’t appear the Mets are merely stalling while gauging the trade market. Instead, there seems to be a split in the front office as to whether to trade Dickey or not, and indications are that GM Sandy Alderson is in favor of signing him.’
‘Some Mets people even hint at some sort of behind-the scenes issue between Dickey and ownership that has had an impact on negotiations.’
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What issue(s) can the Wilpons possibly have with Dickey????
- His 20 game win, CY award winner year?
- His willingness to pitch the entire ’12 season with a torn stomach muscle rather than hit the DL?
- His willingness to pitch with a torn planter fascia midway thru the ’11 season without hitting the DL?
- His numerous personal interactions with working for charities and kids?
- His overcoming a horrific childhood and less than inspiring ML career to get where he is now?
- His willingness to take a lousy 2 year deal, just wanting to be paid what he’s worth and not be insulted?
I’ve read most of Dickey’s interviews and comments. He’s sincere which probably translate to a bit outspoken for Wilpons tastes.
Something is definitely going on b/c Wright won’t even comment on the DIckey situation. They must have told Wright in ‘the detailed plan’ they gave him they’ve got every intention of trading him.
If they go into the season with Dickey, not trading him nor extending him – someone should be shot. We’ll get next to nothing back for him if they try and trade him mid season and get nothing if he walks at the end of the season.
kingman 26
12/8/2012-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
4D, don’t mean to blow my own horn, but it is what I have been saying for a year or more—EVERY move the team makes is most absolutely and positively dictated by Wilpon money concerns.
Sandy is a lawyer and a frontman.
ANY executive would have rather traded Wright for prospects, re-signed Dickey for 2 more years, and spent Wright’s money on a catcher and an outfielder.
The Wilpons believe Wright’s presence will sell such a number of tickets to the casual fan who buys jerseys and goes to a few games a year but does not care about winning like we do, that this was their gameplan.
I am sorry if this offends some, and I certainly am not targeting you, but how many times can the same pie hit one in the face before one believes that someone is right there throwing pies in one’s face?
Winning is not even on the drawing board; it’s not even right behind the back burner.
Winning only exists in a place at least 2 years in the future. We were told we’d spend the Beltran/Ollie/KRod money and we did not.
The Bay/Johan money was partly spent on Wright and will be partly spent on debt, at least for another year if not longer.
And keeping Dickey possibly without re-signing him is again a move to sell tickets in 2013 without any regard for winning or the future.
There’s not another way to rationally explain what has gone on thus far.
greggofboken
12/8/2012-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
I have to disagree. How is the eating of Perez/Castillo/Bay (for one) driven by the Wilpons’ money concerns. $33M eaten. At a $40 avg ticket price, that’s the equivalent of 825,000 tickets that otherwhise would not have been sold if they were kept. That doesn’t wash. Those moves cost them.
How is hiring Collins, rather than the museum-like attraction of trotting Backman out there, driven by money? Ditto that with the paean to ’86 by riddling the coaching staff with the sideshow attractions of Mooke and Hojo?
And there are a good number of respected baseball people who seem to believe shopping Dickey is absolutely the appropriate thing to do.
Keeping Dickey without an extension because he’s a fan favorite is, as you say, lunacy.
kingman 26
12/8/2012-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Your first paragraph makes absolutely zero sense—tickets that would not have been sold if they were kept? What?
They released Bay because he agreed to defer money. Which became extra money for the present.
That is–without any rational doubt–why they did it.
And let’s remember, they DID keep Ollie around a LONG time, including when he refused to go to the minors and was a literal waste of an MLB roster space.
And a manager of a NY team has infinitely more public presence than barely visible hitting and base coaches. Again, hiring HoJo and Mookie was possibly done to make fans reminisce about the good times, or simply to have popular players in the organization (a la Keith, Ron, Ojeda, which everyone supports), while having these guys in marginal roles with minimal media exposure.
The manager faces the press EVERY day. Massive, gigantic difference.
Stick
12/8/2012-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
my take? Boken, those were dead contracts, and impossible to trade for anything. SO the money was lost already, and the releases were a bone thrown to placate the fans.
Knog, there is one flaw in your logic. Fred and Sandy have been around long enough (and this was well proven the last few years) that there is a strong correlation to a winning (at least competitive) team on the field and asses in the seats. IOW, a team that does what the Orioles did this year will draw way more fans than another 4th place also ran team even with DW on it.
Hell, attendance has been tanking with DW (and your boy Dickey) so why think that is going to change?
Also, you forgot someone. The Mets did not spend the Bay/Johan money on DW. They spent the DW money (also expiring after 2013 before they extended him) with a very slight raise.
Stick
12/8/2012-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Knog, I disagree on Bay. He was getting released anyway (that was pretty clear). So this deal worked out for both sides, and may have been initiated from the Bay side.
Doing it now was much better for bay (to hook on elsewhere). Deferring some of the money made it worth while to the team, otherwise their best interest was in keeping him into ST, just in case.
so did it help the ST cash crunch? Absolutely. Was it done solely because they were broke? Can’t really say that.
greggofboken
12/8/2012-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
You’re making my poiint about Collins. Why would such a highly visible position be given to Collins (whose presence sells no tickets) rather than to Backman, who would?
Yes….they did carry Perez and Castillo for quite some time — before Alderson was hired.
My apologies for the vague language. I believe you got the gist of my point however — which is that to offset the cost of eating Castillo/Perez/Bay the club would have had to have sold a huge number of tickets that they otherwise would not have. Stick….it’s a fair point to see it’s a sunk cost.
My point is, to say that one and all decisions are driven solely by the Wilpons’ money concerns strikes me as a greatly oversimplified view. It may make for an appealing narrative….as black hats and white hats often do, but it is not an accurate reflection of a more nuanced truth.
….in my view….
kingman 26
12/8/2012-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Stick–of course they know winning brings fans out–attendance is down over 40% in the last five years.
My argument is that they are doing whatever is possible while spending as little as possible to keep as many people as possible coming out and buying jerseys.
Wright is–quite clearly–the player who does this the most, as any visit to Citi would show.
They cannot guarantee that by spending on Pierzynski/Ludwick/Ross/whoever that they would win more and draw more people, but they KNOW that St. Dimples puts asses in the seats and jersey money in Jeff’s piggy bank.
I am out of here, but look for my next opus tomorrow or early Monday, an evaluation of Sandy’s performance as GM thus far.
And re-signing Wright is NOT an issue!
Stick
12/8/2012-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t really see the manager selling enough tickets (if any) to make a difference. And the GM has to have some say in things. And Backman had his fanboys, but not like we were talking about bringing in Larussa or Torre (a real big name manager).
kingman 26
12/8/2012-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
Gregg–
My feeling is that Backman was not hired due to a combo of lack of experience and also the very real possibility of his creating a PR nightmare with his temper, although yes, he may have sold some tickets. Any long-term Met fans knows the Wilpon preference for the bland.
And I am sorry, but when the team cuts payroll as it has, fails to sign so many draft picks, has a GM who loudly proclaims “We’re buyers!” before a trade deadline when very much in contention then does nothing, and releases Bay as they did when they did to clear some funding for the present, denying that the driving force behind team moves is ownership finances is simply either choosing to ignore what pretty clearly seem to be the facts, or simply being somewhat naive.
If they keep Dickey without re-signing him, will you really believe this is not being done simply to sell tickets in 2013 without regard to the future?
greggofboken
12/8/2012-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman, No. If they keep Dickey without resigning him, it will absolutely be driven by money — and a signal to me that Alderson lost the degree of autonomy that I believe to some degree that he’d had. I’ll be furious if that happens.
srt
12/8/2012-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
‘…and a signal to me that Alderson lost the degree of autonomy that I believe to some degree that he’d had. I’ll be furious if that happens.’
Agree. There’s been a chance I believe, going into this off season. Think the Wilpons are far more confident now they’re going to hold onto the team and as such, are sticking their nose into the FO and running of the club again.
srt
12/8/2012-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
Meant change…not chance in my first sentence.
nym
12/8/2012-5:13pm at 5:13 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree. I don’t see why “any executive” would rather keep the 38 year old pitcher over a 30 year old 3b on an offensively starved team. If its just some prospects we are getting that are years away…1) thats a huge gamble in banking on them panning out, and 2) if you are going to trade your only established bat for prospects…what’s the point in keeping the 38 year old pitcher?? That would be a PR based move more than anything IMO.
That impact catcher you are going to get with the “money saved” on Wright…simply does not exist. And a good 3b is harder to find than a good OFer..so swapping Wright out for an “OFer” doesn’t necessarily make us any better. Besides, Wright’s salary is now only 8 mil for 2013…that combined with some money saved by deferring Bay’s salary…they should be able to easily add a solid OFer or two.
kingman 26
12/8/2012-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
My friend, hard as it may be for some to accept, the team is simply in a mode where Wilpon finances are all that matter.
That is why so much money was given to Face of Fourth Place St. Dimples the Magnificent, that is why “We’re buyers!” at the trade deadline meant nothing, that is why so many draft picks were not signed, and that is why absolutely nothing has been done yet to improve the team.
And the fact that Alderson may in fact be dramatically overrated as a GM is certainly also a factor.
Carrasco, Francisco, Rauch, Hu, Emaus, the Pagan trade, drafting a kid who did not play high school baseball with the 13th pick, letting Reyes go for nothing….he’s gotten a huge pass from far too many people.
srt
12/8/2012-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
‘…the team is simply in a mode where Wilpon finances are all that matter.’
Ugh. Spot on, my friend.
kingman 26
12/8/2012-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Phils about to acquire Michael Young, who I wanted for years.
That’s great!
We better pray that the Marlins really suck next year so we can finish 4th again.
wanny
12/8/2012-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
this version of michael young is nothing to be jealous about.
kingman 26
12/8/2012-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
People were saying precisely this 2-3 years ago when I was pining for him.
He sure did have a downturn in 2012 to be sure.
Stick
12/8/2012-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
if the 2012 version at age 35 is indicative of what he can do now, I would not expect a big year out of the age 36 version! Pretty sure his D has really declined also (not that it was ever that great).
I just hope for the sake of the Phils he is a total decrepit shell this season.
Prismo
12/8/2012-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
He’s always been a sub-average defender. While UZR may stink in general – when it looks like this year-to-year it does mean something:
2001-2012: -4, 6, -4, -18, -23, 0, -11, -5, -8, -5, -7, -8
Prismo
12/8/2012-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
He had a WAR of -1.4 last season. That’s worse than Jason Bay. Phillies traded a top bullpen (maybe starter – like Mejia) prospect to get him for 1 season.
I like this trade as a Mets fan.
Stick
12/8/2012-5:38pm at 5:38 pm (UTC -4)
same here. And Lindblom I thought was going to be a big part of the back end of their pen.
Hey, I did not think they could do it, but making their IF even older sounds good for me.
srt
12/8/2012-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/ra-dickey-rumors-saturday.html
The Mets and Dickey have “established common ground” on the length and structure of an extension according to Marc Carig of Newsday. The team has given the knuckleballer the flexibility to choose among several options, though money remains a sticking point.
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What does that even mean?
No doubt in my mind they’re low balling their offer to Dickey.
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‘Multiple teams remain interested in trading for R.A. Dickey, though it’s possible the Mets will keep him heading into 2013 even if he doesn’t agree to an extension. The reigning NL Cy Young Award winner is reportedly seeking two years and $26MM on top of the $5MM he’s owed next season.’
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Keep him going into the 2013 season with no extension? Dumb and dumb.
Stick
12/8/2012-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
lame duck would be an impeachable offense (OK, I know it is fire able, but that sounded more impressive!)
nym
12/8/2012-5:24pm at 5:24 pm (UTC -4)
IMO it seems like they were stalling the Dickey talks just to see what kind of offers are out there for him. I don’t see a problem with that. He just won the Cy Young, but he is an older guy, and starting pitching is one area where the Mets do have some depth. Though it is annoying to hear the constant Dickey talk and updates with no new news…I think its good that they are keeping their options open and not just rushing to sign him b/c he’s a fan favorite. Hopefully they will make a decision one way or another sometime soon though
Stick
12/8/2012-5:36pm at 5:36 pm (UTC -4)
this is what I was thinking too originally. And I was 100% on board trolling him, and either getting the big offer or just re-signing him, and getting it all wrapped up by the holidays at the latest, so they can move on.
but this concept of doing nothing (and yes, I know it is now the hallmark of this operation) and letting him play the year out and just leave at the end is unconscionable.
greggofboken
12/8/2012-6:13pm at 6:13 pm (UTC -4)
The choice to delay doesn’t bother me at all. I think it’s smart. A choice to delay and simply say nothing also wouldn’t bother me. The choice to delay and not stay mum, but to imply that Dickey’s modest (if what we’re hearing about them is so) salary demands are to exhorbitant bothers me, because it smacks of Jeff Wilpon’s involvement. (Wilpon has a reputation to be an “all or nothing” negotiator.) The choice to delay, imply that salary is the issue and hold out the option of bringing him back w/o an extension is maddening. Were Jeff Wilpon nowhere near this negotation, I would view that intolerable option as simply a bad bluff. Unfortunately, since Jeff Wilpon is near these negotations, I am concerned, because I think he may very well be just stupid enough to do it.
I am praying that the Greinke signing shakes the tree enough to bring forth a viable offer to make the whole point moot.
Stick
12/8/2012-6:39pm at 6:39 pm (UTC -4)
as a rule of thumb, assume Jeffy is stupid enough to do anything really stupid.
Stick
12/8/2012-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
the way it all shook out I am actually OK now with re-signing Wright. quite possible the last few years are a drag, but hell, if they are hamstrung by 15mill/year 7-8 years from now, we will have lived through the worst period ever of mets history!
but I still think if they can get an impact bat or a couple of very close to ready prospects for Dickey, do it.