I pulled out my Mayan calendar from the attic and did you know that they predicted on 12/11/2012 that a major athletic organization would crumble? We should really save this date in our Mets memory banks because to me, this is the date that the latest wave of Mets personnel crossed the point of no return. Mostly we have been hopeful yet skeptical that if we wait a couple years for the financial mess to clear out, then the team would be back to where a team in a New York City market should be; wheeling, dealing, styling and profiling. Then on October 4th we were told the time has come. Our patience has paid off and the Mets are going to start clawing their way back up. This is the day Sandy Alderson sat down with WFAN’s Mike Francessa and gave his state of the team interview (the full interview is listed in RDM’s WFAN feed below). The exchange below is what most Mets fans have been waiting for:
Mike Francessa: Other than Wright and Dickey, do you feel now as you go to 2013 that you are still in a consolidation phase and you are going to ask your fans to sit through another one of these seasons, or do you intend or feel compelled that you have to give them a far better product next year. Do you think you can try their patience one more year?
Sandy Alderson: Well I am not intentionally trying their patience, believe me. I would look at 2013 as another opportunity for us to exceed what expectations people have had. I think we accomplished that the first half of this year [he then goes into a history lesson of 2011 and KROD’s contract].
Mike Francessa: You understand my point, can you give them something to be optimistic or are you going to have to say we hope to over-achieve or no look we are much better on paper going in.
Sandy Alderson: No, I think we can be much better on paper going in. I think all of this, this sense of confidence that I hope we can continue or begin to rebuild with the fans going into 2013 is going to start with Wright and Dickey. Just the fact that we are able to say look we are prepared and we are capable of signing these two players. That’s a step and a major step in the right direction. I hope we are successful in signing them both. For me to be able to say look there are no impediments here, that’s a statement maybe it’s too subtle for some but to me that’s a very big statement about where we are now and the change that has taken in that regard in our capacity since spring training last year.
Mike Francessa: Considering the look of your outfield and catching situation, can the Met fan expect to see wholesale changes in those areas or will they have to except subtle change?
Sandy Alderson: In the outfield and behind the plate?
Mike Francessa: Yea.
Sandy Alderson: Much more likely there will be significant change in those areas verses subtle changes. Simply because you have to look at the record and see what kind of production we have gotten from those positions.
Mike Francessa: Zero.
Sandy Alderson: Recognize that there is not a lot of capacity for progress there. We know what we got and it is not championship caliber. [Sandy then goes on and said it will likely come from trades opposed to FA].
So, as Mets fans, the wait was over. We can begin to move forward again. None of us were expecting Josh Hamilton, but we were led to believe it won’t be Mike Baxter either. Then on December 11th the Mets had their annual holiday party. A day to give back to the community and to celebrate all we are thankful for as Mets fans and in typical Mets fashion a day to celebrate was a day for controversy. First came the airing of grievances from our Cy Young winner, R. A. Dickey. Remember how Sandy said the way for the organization to build fan confidence starts with signing Wright and Dickey? Well, that part of the plan isn’t going too well according to Dickey.
R.A. Dickey: When people say it’s business, it’s not personal, well that just means it’s not personal for them. I’m hoping it ends up in a good place, but also in the back of your mind you think it may not. That’s sad.
Then came the bombshell tweet from ESPN’s Adam Rubin:
Sandy Alderson said he acknowledges he does expect the 2013 Opening Day roster to look similar to the end of 2012.
So did the plan to build fan confidence get steamrolled by the Wilpon’s or from other issues that we are just not privy to, or was Sandy Alderson just saying what he thought the fans wanted to hear in October and was hoping they have short memories. If it’s the latter, then Sandy hasn’t been in New York long enough. This blog wasn’t the only one to bring these comments to the forefront (thank you for dealing with my temper tantrum in yesterday’s post), but other Mets blogger’s jumped on this subject.
Mets Today
http://www.metstoday.com/8229/12-13-offseason/fourth-place-again-so-why-bother/
Mets Merized
http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/12/the-day-sandy-alderson-ran-out-of-good-faith.html
Amazing Avenue
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2012/12/11/3754766/better-the-devil-you-know
MetsBlog
http://metsblog.com/metsblog/alderson-now-expects-very-few-changes-this-off-season/
So what are we to believe? How should we behave to this news? For me, it’s simple. Nothing has changed and they are punting the 2013 season. I find it really hard to believe there is any other way to look at it. They were even able to defer money from Jason Bay and David Wright’s contract for 2013 to give them more flexibility for the season. When Sandy was asked about those newly found dollars he stated it could be used now or later or maybe not at all. At this point forward I just cannot believe anything that this organization says anymore. The proof will be in the pudding and right now the pudding is spoiled.
As a fan, this one question keeps popping in my head: Why as a Mets fan should I buy a ticket this season? My answer is easier than most. I live in NH and have 2 kids. Going to a game would probably cost me $300 and this is not a team that is worth paying that kind of cash for. Now if I still lived locally, catching a train to a game with a bunch of friends is way more economically feasible. But the question still remains, why should we go? What has this organization done in the last three years that deserves your hard earned dollars? Why should you drop $250 on one of those new Mets Jerseys? Tell me why fans.
98 comments
Rustyjr
12/12/2012-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Did I read something from a ghost ?
TRS86
12/12/2012-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Sandy is a GM, he speaks in forked tongue. He never said wholesale changes, he said more substantial than subtle. That means what?
Also the Mets could change 2 OF and the catcher and the roster would STILL look very similar to last year. That has nothing to do with the previous comment. The final game had Duda in LF, Torres in CF and Hairston in RF. Currently neither Torres or Hairston are on the team….
Why any of you really rely on something any GM says in public as gospel and something to get up or down about????
SaltyGary
12/12/2012-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
TRS you are a smart guy.
Substantial: Of considerable importance, size, or worth:
Subtle: So delicate or precise as to be difficult to analyze or describe.
This is not general GM speak. He was very clear in suggesting this year would be different and yesterday he put the brakes on it. Why do you refuse to hold him accountable?
TRS86
12/12/2012-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Salty, who is our CF, who is our RF?
Joe D.
12/12/2012-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you Gary and I loved your post.
TRS, yesterday, two of my biggest Alderson supporters Robert Patterson, who Salty linked to, and Jessep, have turned a corner.
Last night Jessep emailed me asking if it was okay to write a post to take Alderson to task, and wanted to know how far can he go with it.
You may not know this, but Jessep has defended Alderson through thick and thin. He’s become public enemy number one to many MMO regulars because of it. I was shocked to see he had enough and I cant wait to see his take on this.
At some point you have to start putting the evidence together and read the tea leaves.
Listen to some of your writers here because they are not overreacting and do know when they’re being duped.
Anyway, I just wanted to say nice post and then saw your comment and wanted to throw in my two cents.
Keep up the great work on RDM.
.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Joe, I seem to think that so many try to group people as pro or anti Wilpons or Sandy. Honestly I don’t care one way or the other for either one. I obviously have had more time to judge the Wilpons and know their weaknesses for sure. However, I think we are all frustrated and are trying to look for things to create out of thin air.
Again, no decent GM is going to reveal their hand. Also this is like damn politics. A GM doesn’t have control over the entire world and especially other teams.
I have said from day one that I would give the current group until opening day 2014 and I have seen nothing, nothing at all, nothing whatsoever, to change that mindset. Especially nothing that a GM said in a radio interview.
Joe D.
12/12/2012-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Hey, just a quick friendly tip.
Your W3C counter is adding over 5 seconds to your pageload time. Most sites don’t use counters anymore because of the tremendous lag and resources it takes for it to work properly.
In case some of your readers have mentioned your pageloads being too long, that W3C counter is why.
Stick
12/12/2012-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I still put way more of the blame on the “real” GM (sitting in the COO office), and the owners in general (for making decisions, and continually yanking the pursestrings).
Has Sandy been good? Not really. But, he has only been able to make minor, at the margin (deck chair) moves, working with a relative pitance of a payroll (and honestly, last year, he had NEGATIVE payroll to wrk with).
So, I just can’t pin all the blame on him, because I don’t think he ever had anything close to full autonomy or money to spend.
If you can convince me that Jeff gave Sandy a decent budget, and full authority to do anything he wanted (including trade Wright), and not to worry about the fans, the only thing he had to worry about was building a better/winning team, and he still chose to sit with his thumb up his ass because he refuses to spend money, then I will grab my pitchfork.
like a wise women once said, don’t shoot the messanger.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Thanks Joe, I will look into it.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
“If you can convince me that Jeff gave Sandy a decent budget, and full authority to do anything he wanted (including trade Wright), and not to worry about the fans, the only thing he had to worry about was building a better/winning team, and he still chose to sit with his thumb up his ass because he refuses to spend money, then I will grab my pitchfork.”
And I have said that regardless if that doesn’t happen before opening day 2014 then I don’t care whose damn fault it is.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
“If you can convince me that Jeff gave Sandy a decent budget, and full authority to do anything he wanted (including trade Wright), and not to worry about the fans, the only thing he had to worry about was building a better/winning team, and he still chose to sit with his thumb up his ass because he refuses to spend money, then I will grab my pitchfork.”
The idea that Alderson has been given $10–20M to spend and is choosing not to is so ridiculous the English language does not contain adequate words to describe it.
The idea that Alderson would be in favor of the insane deal for St. Dimples the Magnificent is also somewhat difficult to believe.
Clearly, and without any reasonable doubt, Alderson has continued to be told that he cannot spend anything significant beyond the contract for David the Dreamy and Beloved.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
You know, I still have an issue with your constant calling of Wright unnecessary names. Before I get labled a Wright “Slurper” remember I wanted him traded. But calling him out for his looks or insinuating that’s the only reason he was re-signed is actually getting offensive and implies that the Mets are actually only concerned about the 13 year old girls’ ticket sales.
Do I think that Wright’s image helped him get his contract? Of course it did. But it could also have to do with the fact that he’s played his ass off over the time he’s been here while being a role model, leader and already worthy numbers wise of their HOF. So in other words, stop acting like a spoiled brat and insulting the teams best player just because you disagreed with the move.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, talk about a high horse.
Or more of a low horse in your case.
It is a JOKE, Mr. Humorless.
Geez man.
srt
12/12/2012-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
As long as the Mets remain cash strapped, I don’t see how much changes – unless we get lucky and put together a winning season that lands us playing in Oct. Winning would bring more money to the coffers.
I’ve been having a problem loading this site and refreshing lately – in case you’re interested trs……
TRS86
12/12/2012-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Lets just say you have run that joke into the ground and are now beating that dead horse with a furry of all the angels.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
The site has had speed issues for me, at various computers, and perhaps Joe’s wonderful suggestion will help to rectify this and speed things up, which would be magnificent.
SaltyGary
12/12/2012-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks Joe, appreciate it.
TRS86
12/12/2012-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Mets GM Sandy Alderson won’t allow drama or emotion to determine the outcome of the Dickey situation, Andy Martino of the New York Daily News writes (Twitter links). The Mets say there’s been more trade interest in Dickey since Zack Greinke signed and James Shields was traded.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#zLZCBqyB3RgisWIz.99
TRS86
12/12/2012-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
This is why I am still OK with Sandy being in charge.
SaltyGary
12/12/2012-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
It’s not about him being in charge it’s about how the team is operating. He has always been clear in his message and yesterday was his first true reversal.
TRS86
12/12/2012-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
We all read into things what we want to read into them. That’s why I never pay attention to what they say to start with.
gategem
12/13/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Just hope your players don’t apply the same criteria to you.
TRS86
12/12/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Though the Mets are low-balling Dickey, they should use the leverage they have, Sherman writes. They know Dickey wants security and they know other teams seek top-of-the-rotation starters, so they’re not about to compromise.
Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#zLZCBqyB3RgisWIz.99
srt
12/12/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
As real said, you can’t hang on every word coming out of this FO. They’re never going to reveal all to the media or us fans. This FO seems to keep it a little more close to the vest than previous ones.
SA isn’t going to be the long term GM. He was here to help save the team for the Wilpons. Think about it: he was in his mid 60s, working for MLB with probably a cushy job with little stress and reasonable hours. Why would he give that up to take a step backwards and GM some team, mainly the Mets at a point in time where the owners had one foot in bankruptcy court?
Answer: his then current boss asked him to. And I have to believe Sandy’s first question was: ‘what’s in it for me?’ I’m assuming we’ll find out when he leaves this job, which I’m 99% positive will be at the end of his contract.
IMO….as I’m sure you all already know…..the problem starts at the top. Actually starts and ends with the Wilpons. Since the Madoff debacle, they either cannot or will not invest any more of their own money in this team. Nor will Fred sell. So until this team is relatively solvent, I can only assume we can expect more of the same.
Joe D.
12/12/2012-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
You dont have to hang on every word, but you should do your due diligence and examine the evidence. And there is plenty to examine. The bread crumb trail runs long and wide.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Joe, again, we can interpret things anyway we want. There at this point is no 100% white or black answer. You as a baseball fan know that the truth is always in the middle.
However, if we are going to hang on Sandy’s every word then why can’t we hang on Wright and Dickey’s every word who both said there was a clear and deliberate plan that they believed would bring the Mets back to the top? Paraphrasing of course.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Because Wright and Dickey were lied to also?
Because the Wilpons have lied to Sandy?
Authority figures DO lie sometimes.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
If Wright and Dickey were brought in and lied to and were that gullible and 2 weeks later they were duped? LOL. Come on.
Of course it’s possible but obviously so is the opposite. It’s time to get off our high horses and looking down on people or calling them naive just because they choose to wait instead of caving to a certain view.
NO ONE HAS A DAMN CLUE ABOUT THE SITUATION other than the Wilpons and Sandy. The rest of us are just as Joe said, trying to read tea leaves.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
How many years do we wait before coming to conclusions?
Does payroll have to be $20 mil before you believe that ownership might be deceitful?
Perhaps Wright’s main goal was securing $140 mil guaranteed and he doesn’t really care if the team wins? If this is the case, would he openly state that?
Do you think any wealthy, powerful figures ever distort the truth for the ears of the public?
And to me, what has happened over two full years on and off the field has left a huge and massive trail of quite obvious clues as to how this team is now being run. There’s a tea PLANTATION full of clues out there.
Do you really think we are still going to see a handful of moves that are going to improve this team for 2013?
fongulalou
12/12/2012-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Yeah….He does.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
Do I think there will be some moves to improve the current team for 2013? Well signing Fongy at this point would improve the team so yeah, logically they will. Significantly enough to make us logically compete in 2013? Hell no, I didn’t expect them to do that back in 2010 when Sandy was hired.
greggofboken
12/12/2012-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Doesn’t due diligence involve not attributing a promise for wholesale changes to Alderson when those aren’t his words? Doesn’t due diligence also involve fully reporting on Alderson’s speculation about the makeup of the opening day roster and the usage of available money — speculation which ran the gamut of possibilities — rather than just highlighting his initial quote of expecting the roster to look similar to last year’s before he qualified it?
In my eyes, it does.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
See that’s my thing. Alderson doesn’t have complete control of the baseball world. Just because in October he anticipated the market to go one way or the trade market to go another doesn’t mean that it can’t change. If you want to hold him accountable for mis-judging the market? Fine but it is still very early.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
It’s NOT very early no matter how many times you say that.
Go and read MLBTR’s posts for the last few weeks.
Teams actually ARE making moves.
Just not the Mets.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
But the Mets never intended on signing guys like Vicki or Upton, we know that. However, guys like Ross are still on the board.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
That is true; I did think Vicky would have been ideal, but absolutely not at that inflated price.
Ludwick?
Prismo
12/12/2012-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
If every free agent is overpaid, and the Mets shouldn’t overpay anyone they sign….then how will the Mets ever sign anyone?
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Yet Prismo they aren’t in the situation to either need or be able to overpay. What’s the point in overpaying Vicki? How much closer does that really place them to competing? They could overpay the entire market and do like the Marlins last year and double their payroll and still stink the way the team is currently constructed.
fongulalou
12/12/2012-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Hello!…The Mets aren’t signing ANY FAs except for a last man standing, can’t find a team to give him a MLB contact. That’ll be in late Jan., early Feb. AND it’ll be a one yr, on the REAL-CHEAP type contact….Think….. Scott Podsednik/ Endy Chavez types.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
“If every free agent is overpaid, and the Mets shouldn’t overpay anyone they sign….then how will the Mets ever sign anyone?”
Is this a riddle?
I’d overpay for Bourn maybe…and I would overpay Dickey for two years.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
No way am I overpaying for Bourn. Dickey, no need.
As for Fongy, well at least with that one they said they were going to do that from the beginning. So at least there you can’t say they lied.
TX
12/12/2012-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
I’d give Dickey 3 years on top of his option.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Bourn is about to turn 30, does a lot of things well, and fills needs in the OF as well as improves defense and speed.
Not that there’s any chance we sign him.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry unless we can get him for 3 years, no interest in Bourn.
Stick
12/12/2012-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
bourne IMO is somewhat overrated, and just is a bad risk at the 5 years he is asking for (and if he is a 15/16mill player, then Wright is underpaid).
he just screams of a guy that is going to sign the big deal, and stop the one thing he actually did well (SBs) as he moves into his 30s.
and I was surpirsed when I looked at his #s. If you care about OPS+, in the last 2 years, it was 103 and 99 (so in 2012, by that measure, he was below average).
putting up 150Ks/year is also a red flag.
He has though led the league in one category the last 2 years: caught stealing!
3/36 in today’s market could be a decent deal. 5/80? No way I am making that our only “big” signing for the next 3+ years.
srt
12/12/2012-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Or, SA’s plan included trading Wright and that plan had to change since the Wilpons wanted him as the ambassador for life….
srt
12/12/2012-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with Stick on Bourne.
Might be different if we were 1 OF away from a strong team but we’re not.
TRS86
12/12/2012-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, no more than 3 years and 42M tops. Which might be why he’s still around.
Prismo
12/12/2012-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
I think Bourn’s value mostly lies in the stolen bases. If he can continue to steal 40+ bases a season, his value is pretty high when considering his defense.
But if he starts to age and steals <30 bases a season, his value drops much closer to an average outfielder.
My other question is – will Terry Collins LET him steal that much? We all know how much Sandy and Terry feel about stealing bases (they don't love it). If they're not going to let him run free, it's a pointless signing.
How will his legs hold up? Will the Mets let him run free? I don't know the answers to these questions – if you do, I think we have a good grasp on how Bourn could help this team.
Stick
12/12/2012-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
interesting looking trade yesterday with reds/dbacks/indians.
I wish I rooted for a team that ever mad e amove to improve the talent on the field, or address holes that need to be filled.
and it does not seem that all(if any) of the teams involved had to spend any money to make it happen.
Sad times indeed.
Prismo
12/12/2012-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Look at our trade history over the past 3 years:
Traded Received
2012 Kyle Lobstein Cash
2012 Omar Quinanilla Cash
2011 Carlos Beltran Zack Wheeler
2011 Francisco Rodriguez Cash, Daniel Herrara, Adrian Rosario
2010 Michael Antonini Chin-lung Hu
2010 Jeff Francoeur Joaquin Arias
2010 Rod Barajas Cash
2010 Mike Jacobs PTBNL
Are you trying to tell me that doesn’t inspire confidence? Haha…. *ties a noose*
Stick
12/12/2012-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
1 out of 8 ain’t bad?
though to be fair, there were only 2 guys on the list traded away that were now filler crap or DFA candidates, and KRod was a pure salary dump to get rid of the option year.
Prismo
12/12/2012-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
That’s exactly the point though. For a cruddy team, how have they only made 1 notable trade in 3 years? I don’t know, maybe it doesn’t matter…
Prismo
12/12/2012-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
As I’ve stated numerous times, I will wait and see what happens in the rest of the offseason before coming to any conclusions. Has Sandy made claims which contradict each other? YES. But while Dickey’s fate remains up in the air with several months of the offseason left, I don’t think it’s fair to say any one of his claims is true or not true.
If the Mets do indeed go into 2013 with nearly the same roster as in 2012, I will be incredibly disappointed. I will continue to scorn the Wilpon family and will eagerly jump on the anti-Alderson bandwagon (because at some point, it’s his fault for sticking with this job – even if he doesn’t have much say. He can’t avoid blame forever).
I don’t think our (as a fan base) getting angry in mid-December will have an effect on the team’s plan. So I think waiting this out is the most logical option.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
How can the claims contradict themselves when they don’t provide a clear answer to start with? He never backs himself in a hole, that’s the lawyer in him. There’s always an out. That’s why I really don’t give a damn what he says in public anyway.
Currently Dickey is not signed to an extension and being shopped and we have no CF or RF or backup catcher. I would say the roster is still very subject to change.
Prismo
12/12/2012-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
He does always give himself an out, but this isn’t a legal seminar. Perception is 100% of the law here. And he says things to make people perceive what he wants them to believe.
That said, I agree that I take no stock in anything the man says in public.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Sure he tries to play the public. That’s what a GM is really paid to do. They don’t even make THAT many of the total baseball decisions anyway.
Stick
12/12/2012-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
I think it is actually a good thing if they change their thinking along the way. It is not lying, rather adapting to the realities of the market place.
some fans seem to think you have to make a definitive statement at the beginning (some kind of philosophical line in the sand) and never, ever deviate from. But that is just not how it works.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
That’s what I always laugh about in politics. “You flip flopped. Back 8 years ago you said…” like in those 8 years he can’t change his mind.
srt
12/12/2012-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Believing that the Bay and Wright deferrals were to free up money to spend on players is somewhat ridiculous based on everything we have seen for two years.
That money very possibly was freed up to meet bond and debt obligations and maybe even operating expenses.
What Alderson says means absolutely nothing. Does anyone remember “We’re buyers!” He is a spokesman and a front man and absolutely nothing more.
He says something and then gradually moves the goalposts to keep the optimists, the gullible, and those likely to trust authority figures happy.
The evidence of what is going on with this team is clear as can be, for those who want to see it.
Some will of course say they are being “patient” and it is only mid-December, etc. etc. etc.
But it is funny—-a LOT of teams do seem to have been making a lot of moves.
The Mets are a shell game right now. A shell game being run by men who have become con artists since the Madoff debacle greatly diminished their economic flexibility.
Ask yourselves—even if we DO trade Dickey for Olt or a package from Toronto–how much better will the team be without other moves? Is Olt going to succeed at the MLB level offensively, play the field well out of position, AND compensate for the loss of Dickey?
Highly, highly unlikely.
Prismo
12/12/2012-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I totally agree that one move (Dickey for Olt, etc) is not enough to turn this team around. It would need to be a move like that combined with at least a couple significant free agent signings (a catcher and another outfielder, a proven reliever, etc)
kingman 26
12/12/2012-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
If all of this was going to happen, don’t you think some move(s) would have already been made…lots of guys are off the market now…
I still love Jason Kidd.
Prismo
12/12/2012-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
LOL
I don’t know – I would have hoped something would’ve happened. But that doesn’t mean something can’t still happen. Trust me, I’m not optimistic that great moves will be made, but I just figure I can wait a bit longer.
TRS86
12/12/2012-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Yup, while a lot of names are off the board how many of them were fits or realistic to start with?
fongulalou
12/12/2012-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Fits???….Granted I haven’t been very tied-in BUT seems to me we could use a Catcher, a 2Bman, a LFer, a CFer, a RFer, a Starter or two and 2 or 3 RPers including a Closer. So……..Just about any of the hundred or so players moved so far could have fit in somewhere. No???………..
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
True, but did Pagan really fit? Vicki at that amount? Napoli at that amount? Upton? Yeah I agree but really did we think they were going to pay that for an OF right now?
fongulalou
12/12/2012-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Relax TRS, I’m just bustin’ chops. There are no 2 or 3 players in this FA class who even if The Mets could otbid everyone for would turn this team into a contender. Not in this division, not in this league. Of course it doesn’t matter since as Brock and a few others correct state, theres no real money to spend. Ownership is lost with no plan to either tear down and rebuild, weave through and try to seriously compete or go all in and truly contend. They don’t trust us fans to almost ever be honest and obviously don’t trust them self to make to the right bets on the right players for the right money to actually move in the right direct. They’ll just con’t to tread water, rigging ticket prices for certain, somewhat appealing games, trot out new uni’s and related merchandise, defer paymentsand hope enough goes right, like last year to con’t to sell into July and maybe August so not to get crushed on the bottom line.
Sad.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
I agree that when Sandy arrived the Mets were in a mess caused mostly by FA and couldn’t be fixed by FA. I am still hopeful that they are on their way towards building something sustainable that doesn’t rely solely on the FA market and treating prospects as only trading chips for 2nd generation players.
Rustyjr
12/12/2012-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
Did I read something from a ghost ? Lol
TX
12/12/2012-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Rumors that the Mariners may be in on Dickey. Supposedly their 2b/ss prospect (Franklin) and a P (Paxton). I guess if you can somehow flip Murph for an OF it works? maybe?
Prismo
12/12/2012-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Source? Thanks.
TX
12/12/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
correction. just an article. but the mariners are looking to make a splash and can’t seem to land anyone…
http://www.ussmariner.com/2012/12/11/should-ms-make-a-play-for-r-a-dickey/
My bad on using Rumor. Still drinking my coffee.
Prismo
12/12/2012-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Thanks, no problem – that’s why I always ask for a source!
I have to say, that’s actually a pretty fair trade on both ends. Mets get a real 2B to pair with Tejada who has AAA experience and a real bat as well as at least average defense at the positions. Mets also get a starting pitching prospect who has 21 starts in AA, so he’s not too too far off from being a major leaguer. Both guys are top 5 prospects in their system.
TX
12/12/2012-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
yeah. They’d then have to flip Murph plus another for an OF or C (like a Salty type). And hopefully sign Ross or someone similar. That could work for me.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
The Mariners have a long and proud history of terrible trades, from Tino Martinez/Jeff Nelson for Sterling Hitchcock/Russ David to Jason Varitek/Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb to David Ortiz for Dave Hollins to Rafael Soriano for Horacio Ramirez to Erik Bedard for Adam Jones/George Sherill…yes, different GMs, but still, the M’s system produces some nice players and has for years.
TX
12/12/2012-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
And I guess my point of the original post I did was that there are or will be more than just Tex and Tor in on Dickey. Some we wouldn’t even imagine. And I still say Boston would be in on it. Not saying there is a fit, but they’ll kick the proverbial tires.
fongulalou
12/12/2012-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Before I go, I do want to thank Brock for opening my eyes to what a fraud Sandy really is. My perception was based on reputation as opposed to fact which is completely unlike me to buy. I think it’s safe to say he’s very overrated as a GM as are those from his GM tree and it’s pretty clear that he has no plan. Just piece and patch as they go along. For all the bad signings and trades so far this O.S., at least if you can look at it without bias judgement, you can somewhat understand a teams plan, be it The Nats, The Phils, Tigers, Royals, Rays, whoever. We however look to be very similar to The Royals or Pirates of 5 to 10 yrs ago. No money to spend, hoping to develop from within BUT being unable to determine which guys are actually serious players as opposed to fringe players, hence being unable to move them for highest value b/f everyone else can I.D. what they are. Then after suffering through several losing seasons sign an B or C list FA, showing the fans you really can/will spend (but not truely) , hoping to patch together a team can make a run at some point even if it only lasts ’til July or August. This way we can atleast sell that for the following season.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
Fong, great to see you here.
I largely blame the Wilpons for fostering a climate of total dishonesty, which Alderson must project to the public, and for their allowing Madoff to basically be the determining factor in team payrolls, dating back to at least the Omar era.
I think Alderson has been nearly a total bust as GM with the moves he has made. Again, he has little to work with either financially or in terms of depth in the minor leagues, but the moves he has made have ranged from the OK (Hairston, Young, Capuano) to the mediocre (Francisco, Rauch) to the atrocious (Carrasco, Hu, Emaus, the Pagan trade, and more.) Wheeler could turn out great, but let’s face it, he didn’t discover him or anything.
I just think at this point he is a guy who probably does not work that much (he is 65 I believe), and clearly does not have either the up-to-date knowledge needed and/or the dedication required to find valuable players the team can afford at any level.
As I have said for over a year, the “plan” for this team is week-to-week survival for the Wilpons, and believing anything else—while being anyone’s right—is an exercise in denial and self-delusion.
Let’s hope that those who speculate that after the financial windfall of the Al Star Game, that the Wilpons put out the for sale sign.
And let’s hope the Steinbrenner kids don’t do it at the same time, or else we will have serious trouble attracting the best if the Yanks are available too.
Mark Cuban remains the dream.
darknova306
12/12/2012-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Nothing a front office says means anything. Actions matter, talk is bullshit. The actions I’ve seen the past couple of years have been of a franchise trying to shed as much money as possible to pay their debt obligations and bridge loans. Until I see anything happen that alters that course, I’ll just sit back and settle in to enjoy a long offseason of ranting and raving on the interwebz. Also drinking. Cheers!
Stick
12/12/2012-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
I like your plan.
because really, other than bitching in type, we can’t do a damned thing about what is going on (or not going on) so no real choice than to wait it out patiently.
ColoradoMetsFan
12/12/2012-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
As you point out, there’s little we can do, other than voting with our wallets.
TRS86
12/12/2012-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly with TV deals, the days of being primarily concerned with just ticket sales may be over. So asking me to not turn on the TV to watch the Mets? Not happening.
SaltyGary
12/12/2012-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
But the main question of my article is, are they doing anything to justify buying a ticket and seeing them in person. At the end of the season they kept doing funny calera angles to not show how empty the place was. They need people in the seats to pay the bills, the TV contracts are not enough. They also want to demo Willits point and put up a destination area. They need a product to attract people. What are they doing to do this?
darknova306
12/12/2012-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
I look at it this way: I love the experience of going to baseball games with folks, win or lose. And with the Mets looking to be as bad (or worse) as last year, ticket prices will be super cheap on the secondary market. So the next time I have the money to go visit my friend in NYC, I can go see a Mets game while still having plenty of money left over to drop on good beer at the Blind Tiger. It’s an all around win for me!
srt
12/12/2012-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, no matter how bad they get, I’m not going anywhere.
I’ll be tuning into SNY to watch my customary 160-161 games (always seem to miss at least 1 a season.)
I’ve been to exactly one game in the past 25 years so my not going won’t affect anything.
Mr North Jersey
12/12/2012-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
What I believe I am seeing is a number of fans getting parts of either nervous, concerned, frustrated or probably all of these combined that no new additions have been done yet at least that of a major league level and as often has been the case when it comes to what the GM says his comments yesterday pushed those concerns up to another level.
When the off season began the things i listed for myself that I would like to see the Mets most do was Get rid of Bay, sign Wright to an extension, sign Dickey to an extension, Upgrade the OF (see Bay), and upgrade at catcher.
Bay is gone and Wright is resigned.
Despite what transpired yesterday I think when all is said as long as the end result is Dickey signs an extension then all that happened yesterday was Dickey gave the media something more to write about than they could have originally expected.
If Dickey is indeed traded then I continue to say that I hope it is indeed because they got a lot or something of considerable value in return.
There are still a vast number of free agents available and the ability to make a trade did not expire today. Currently about 40% of the players that was on last years Opening Day Roster are gone. Moves will be made to fill out the roster what remains to be seen is will we will like them when they occur?
What happens with Dickey is probably the domino that needs to fall to determine how everything else plays out. Do they trade, sign or let him play out the season should eventually be decided. For some it can’t come soon enough.
TRS86
12/12/2012-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
Great post. I especially want to comment on
“If Dickey is indeed traded then I continue to say that I hope it is indeed because they got a lot or something of considerable value in return.”
I really trust the FO to make the right decision here and that is why they are taking their time, Dickey’s feelings be damned.
kingman 26
12/12/2012-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
Bay being released is an upgrade?
Our outfield right now has Kirk, Valdy, Duda, and Baxter?
Bay was a horrific bust, but are we sure ANY of these four will be a serious upgrade?
Here’s a great research project for someone–how many Met moves in recent years have come after Jan 1? How many moves in general happen after Jan 1? Historically, do teams often make multiple moves of significance after Jan 1?
Clearly everything will shut down in about a week until after Jan 1.
Mr North Jersey
12/12/2012-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
kingman 26
12/12/2012-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
No no, I did not want him even as long as we DID have him!
I guess I should say that I think releasing Bay does little unless we obtain another OF.
Mr North Jersey
12/12/2012-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
There are a few things I have no doubt I will see throughout the season next year.
Posts comparing what Bay is doing in Seattle compared to whomever the Mets left-fielder is in 2013.
Posts comparing what the Mets left-fielder has done compared to what Bay had done in 2012 after the same number of at bats or games.
And posts if and when the Mets left-fielder matches or surpasses a Bay single season HR or RBI total while a Met.
I mention this cause for me this is what will most likely determine how much or how little releasing Bay did.
greggofboken
12/12/2012-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
Bay racked up a -1.3 WAR in only 194 at bats. That’s hard work. Even if you just trotted Baxter out there in lieu of doing that, you’re adding 1.5 WAR to the team.
Getting Bay off the field is a massive help. Next step, get Duda out of the outfield.
srt
12/12/2012-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
Mr. NJ…even if Bay has a resurgence this year, I won’t consider cutting him loose a bad idea. I just don’t think he would have done any better this season than any other since he’s been in NY.
If he does wind up to be productive for the Mariners, good for him. Still worth taking that chance.
Mr North Jersey
12/12/2012-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
I share your mindset as well but I know a part of me will not resist the comparisons and yet as you pointed out even if he has a 30/HR 100/RBI season I will still feel it was a good idea to not bring him back for 2013.
Stick
12/12/2012-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
We agree on the domino idea. I said early in the off season they needed to resolve Dickey and DW because they were the first dominos, and once they were done 9one way or the other) then the rest would start to fall quickly.
Prismo
12/12/2012-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks god I live in DC so I can still go to Mets games, but the Wilpons don’t get a cent of my money!
Stick
12/12/2012-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I will let you know when I come down for my annual visit and trip to Nats park.
We can get matching RDM tee shirts or something!