Let’s face it it’s a frustrating time to be a Mets fan. It’s a maddening situation if you are R.A Dickey, and if you are the unnamed Mets “source” that relayed that the team was angered by Dickey’s airing of grievances (It is Festivus as you may know). I feel like I am one of the few people that can set aside my emotions and see both Dickey’s as well as the Mets side of the situation. Dickey is looking for job security as well as setting himself as well as his family up for the distant future. He loves New York but he deserves more than what the Mets are offering him.
The Mets conversely are trying to exhaust their options before commiting the kind of money that it will take to retain Dickey’s services ( it seems that they aren’t that far apart) , If the Mets can swing a trade that can send Dickey to another teams top prospects – in which one should be a power hitting MLB ready outfielder.
I am comfortable with either scenario because if you trade Dickey the Mets in theory would be plugging the gaping holes in their roster, and if you keep Dickey you are in possession of one of the top pitchers in the game.
So until this situation is resolved we will all be angry, upset and disenfranchised.
And with that said… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today includes:
Outfielder from ’62-’65, Joe Christopher is 77 (1935) .
Reserve catcher from ’68-’69, J. C. Martin is 76 (1936).
Middle reliever from ’67-’71, Ron Taylor is 75 (1937). After he left baseball he became a doctor and was employed as the Toronto Blue Jays team doctor.
Utility infielder from the ’93 season, Doug Saunders is 43 (1969).
The New York Mets signed free agent utility infielder, Kelvin Torve of the Minnesota Twins on December 13, 1989.They would release him on the same date 2 years later.
The New York Mets signed free agent outfielder, Rodney McCray of the Chicago White Sox on December 13, 1991. McCray is best known for his highlight reel moment when as a minor leaguer he ran through a outfield wall to catch a line drive.
The New York Mets traded reserve outfielder, Chuck Carr to the St. Louis Cardinals for minor league pitching prospect, Clyde Keller on December 13, 1991.
The New York Mets drafted reserve catcher, Kelly Stinnett from the Cleveland Indians on December 13, 1993.
The New York Mets drafted back up catcher, Charlie Greene from the San Diego Padres on December 13, 1993.
The New York Mets signed free agent reserve outfielder, Ryan McGuire of the Montreal Expos on December 13, 1999.
The Atlanta Braves signed utility infielder, Kurt Abbott of the New York Mets as a free agent on December 13, 2000.
The New York Mets signed free agent middle reliever, Dave Weathers of the Chicago Cubs on December 13, 2001.
The New York Mets signed free agent outfielder, Roger Cedeño of the Detroit Tigers on December 13, 2001. Unfortunately Cedeno never could repeat the same numbers that he posted during his first stint as a Met.
The New York Mets drafted fire balling reliever, Henry Owens from the Pittsburgh Pirates on December 13, 2004.
Mo Vaughn feels miffed at the Mets because they reneged on their promise to supply him with a life time supply of Blue Smoke ribs !!!
110 comments
Stickguy
12/13/2012-8:26am at 8:26 am (UTC -4)
It is just business.
and really, he is under contract for next year already, so technically they don’t have t do anything. That just happens to be bad for both sides.
but, continuing a trend as long as the clown show owns the team, everything becomes some level of PR nightmare, or a circus (appropriate for a clown show, right?). Just a clueless bunch of dopes that are stinking rich, and man, that pisses me off!
So, I hope the pitchfork crowd that will get Sandy to say screw it and leave early are going to be happy with the “new” GM (Jeffy, with J.P. around for “guidance” but mostly to be the front man and fall guy).
Stickguy
12/13/2012-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
nd can’t this bunch actually do anything?
the little bit of slack he had last year because they had such a tiny amount to spend (almost negative really) does not apply, since they are on record as having some money this off season, and then adding more with the contract deferrals, so by their own admission there should be about 20mill available right now to help the team. Yet they still seem to be unable to compete for guys like Hairston and Ross because they are too expensive?
Just sign AJP already. makes too much sense not to.
I hate these owners.
srt
12/13/2012-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
‘I hate these owners.’
Count me in with that sentiment.
ColoradoMetsFan
12/13/2012-8:45am at 8:45 am (UTC -4)
The fact is, as currently constructed, this team can’t do anything right…
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
My new twitter buddy Matt Cerrone said it to Rusty and I best last night
@lagranderusty @saltygary most are not even close to as tuned in and obsessed as we are.
@SaltyGary agreed, but those are not even close to the exact same group of people. one is angry, the other doesn’t give a shit.
When we are on these blogs all the time it is hard to remember that we are so much more engaged than most of Mets fans. The front office doesn’t have to worry about us, we are too obsessed and will keep coming back. Its the majority that don’t care that they need to focus on. BUT to me it doesn’t look like they are doing to good of a job doing that.
Stick
12/13/2012-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
not that there is anything wrong with that, but Ed’s handle really should be legrandrusty. La is the feminine pronoun.
ColoradoMetsFan
12/13/2012-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
This is one of those “I’m of two minds” moments. I think Mets fans in general are more engaged, more knowledgeable and more passionate than say Colorado Rockies fans who, like myself, are just going to Coors Field because it’s a good time, and if you do it right, is reasonably affordable compared to the Citi Field experience. My sense is that Matt Cerrone doesn’t appreciate the full extent of the dissatisfaction. It’s not that “most aren’t as tuned in and obsessed as we are,” it’s just that most don’t voice an opinion on a blogsite.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
“When we are on these blogs all the time it is hard to remember that we are so much more engaged than most of Mets fans. The front office doesn’t have to worry about us, we are too obsessed and will keep coming back. Its the majority that don’t care that they need to focus on. ”
And you have just ideally defined and explained why the team gave Wright the insane and ridiculous deal they did, and have done absolutely nothing else whatsoever.
Remember, when and if Dickey goes, it means we have sold off or lost Reyes, Beltran, and Dickey in a couple of years time. We may indeed be the new Pirates or Expos.
Stick
12/13/2012-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
exactly my thoughts about Wright after reading that comment. But, the Mets are not the only team that does that. and to be fair, while it might be a few years too long (the face of franchise bonus?) he is getting fair money in the market for what he produces, and is still overall a good player (and best on the team). So not like they blew the wad on Lee Mazzilli to make the teens happy.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
From MLBTR:
The Mets will pay David Wright $3.1MM annually from 2021-2025 as part of the deferred payments from his new contract extension, reports Adam Rubin of ESPN New York. The money is deferred without interest.
Just keep kicking the can.
Prismo
12/13/2012-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
I’ll turn 40 in 2025. That’s hard to imagine right now, haha.
Stick
12/13/2012-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
young punk. I just hope I am still alive.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Man me and Joe D were trying to explain to him who Eric Clapton was last night. I’m only 37 but it made me feel really old.
Prismo
12/13/2012-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
OMG that wasn’t me!! I was retweeting a girl who didn’t know who he was! I freakin’ know who Eric Clapton is!!!
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
LOL I say the girl said she didn’t know who someone else was but I thought you replied saying don’t worry I Don’t know who Clapton was. Haha. Thats why I brought up Goodfellas.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Hard to believe that Clapton had already done almost all of his essential work and been through rehab multiple times before you were even born Prismo.
And I saw him live for the last time I think in 1985. Damn.
Prismo
12/13/2012-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
I’ve only seen a couple legends (well, people who are legends in my opinion) – Bruce Springsteen twice, and Paul Simon in 2001.
Unless you count legends of metal, in which case I’ve seen quite a few more.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Hmmm, which legends of metal?
Any grunge legends like Soundgarden or the new Alice in Chains?
Never saw Simon, but I saw Bruce on the Born in the USA Tour which I think was the year you were f***ing born. And I went to Live Aid that year too.
While he is my senior by decades, I am studying Gategem’s lessons on retaining one’s youth…
TX
12/13/2012-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Only “legends” I would say I have seen are Jane’s Addiction, Queens of the Stone Age (legends in my mind, at least), Radiohead, Bob Dylan, then others that I wouldn’t say are legends (Built to Spill endless times, Sufjan Stevens, and umpteen indie rock bands).
Prismo
12/13/2012-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
My dad is a huuuuge Springsteen fan. He saw him at SUNY Oswego when he was in college in a small venue (before Bruce made it big) and loved his music ever since.
I have seen MegaDeth (I wasn’t at the show for them, but it counts!) and Dream Theater twice (Petrucci and Portnoy are legends!). And I’ve seen Symphony X a few times (their guitarist Michael Romeo is probably one of the greatest ever). And I wouldn’t call this band a legendary band, but I’ve seen Iced Earth – and they certainly are a quintessential 80s metal band IMO. Same probably goes for Opeth, although I think Mikael Akerfeldt has one of the best voices in the industry. Another band not of legend status, Porcupine Tree, I’ve seen (not metal) – but I think they just have a music history that is under-appreciated and unknown by the general popular despite being nominated for a couple Grammy’s.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
TX–I played shows with Built to Spill and Doug’s previous band Treepeople. Great guys.
Saw an incredible show at the Seattle Center Arena in Dec 1990 I think–Jane’s Addiction, The Pixies, and Primus all at their peaks.
Interesting bands Prismo; did not know you were into that.
Damn, my list is endless…growing up less than 20 miles from NYC I saw just about everyone who came through MSG and the Meadowlands in the 1980s–Bowie, Queen, Rush, The Dead a bunch, the ARMS Benefit in I think 1983–very memorable, Bruce, The Who and The Clash at Shea in 1982, ZZTop, Roger Waters with Clapton….so many more.
And yeah, just about every single major and minor Grunge/Alternative band in the 1990s–except Pearl Jam–still don’t like them. We opened for Hole before Courtney was well-known–they were really good back then.
I bet Rusty’s list here would be very impressive and similar to yours Prismo.
TX
12/13/2012-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Ahhhh… Built to Spill, Caustic Resin, Tree People, Archers of Loaf, At the Drive-in (who split to become Sparta and Mars Volta), Jane’s Addiction/Porno for Pyros, Tree People, Smashing Pumpkins, Kyuss and then Queens of the Stone Age… That was my wheelhouse.
And Doug from Built to Spill absolutely shreds on the guitar.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Are you allowed to not like Pearl Jam? I dig them a lot but still haven’t been able to catch them. At the height of my concert going days, they were trying to stick it to ticket master. I had tickets to see Primus open for Rush but had to give them up for some reason. Same happened about seeing Floyd and the Stones. Back then I just figured I would see them next time around. Missed out on Steve Miller due to Rodney King Riots, that sucked.
Probably seen Phish 30 times. Dead, Black Crowes, saw G-Love and Special Sauce open for Blues Traveler night before New Years in NYC before G-Love got popular. Front row, killer show. Ziggy Marley, Rush a bunch of times. Roger Waters The Wall the other year was unreal. George Therogood was first show ever. There are so much more I just can’t think of them. Oh yea Dave Matthew a bunch but wasn’t a big fan just went with the girls to get high.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Oh and how can I forget. The show of all shoes. The night after I first hooked up with the future Ms. Salty we went to see Vanilla Ice with his newly formed grunge band at a beach bar in RI. There were probably only 12 people there and 10 of us came together. That was the pinnacle of all shows.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Loved Smashing Pumpkins in the 1990s. Our wheelhouses were very, very similar.
And I have not seen Doug in well over a decade but when I knew him he was a great and totally down-to-Earth guy.
As many of the Seattle rockers from the 1990s really were. Really almost all of them. Especially Screaming Trees, Nirvana, and most of all the Pearl Jam and Mudhoney guys.
Will email to see if you might be around Sun evening the 23rd—will definitely be there for XMas…
Prismo
12/13/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Gary, I didn’t realize you were such a ummm “hippie” for lack of a more appropriate term in this venue. Achem.
I love the Pumpkins, but for whatever reason have never seen them live. I’m mixed on Pearl Jam as a whole, although Eddie Vedder is awesome and “Do the Evolution” is one of my favorite songs from the 90s (also the best music video ever).
Mr North Jersey
12/13/2012-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I am no where near as versed in music as some of you but when I saw you mention Smashing Pumpkins It instantly reminded me of one of the coolest music videos I have enjoyed with their “Tonight, Tonight” video. I enjoyed both the song and video a lot.
Another music video I also enjoyed a lot was “Welcome to the Black Parade video by My Chemical Romance.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Haha! this is like a Metsblog thread circa 2008!!
Gary, I loved Mother Love Bone and knew Andy Wood’s brothers and played shows with their band the Fire Ants, but I did not care for Pearl Jam from the beginning. It’s funny–today they are viewed as all-time rock titans, but in the early 1990s they were looked at as cheesy sellouts by the Grunge scene in Seattle—Stone and Jeff always wanted to be big rock stars which is why they stopped playing with Mark Arm and hooked up with Andy Wood. Had he not died in 1990 they would not have been as big as Pearl Jam maybe, but they would have been big and much better I think. But they are indeed great guys, utterly non-corporate, and are hugely charitable and have taken Seattle bands like the Fastbacks on huge tours as favors to old friends. They deserve their respect; I just do not think their music is on the level of the best of Nirvana/Soundgarden/Alice in Chains/Screaming Trees and others from that era.
And Phish were coming up when I was at UVM–knew Mike pretty well–talk about down-to-Earth guys. I used to see them at Nectar’s on a Weds night when there were less than 20 people back in the 1980s when they were getting started.
Great story about Vanilla Ice!
TX
12/13/2012-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Prismo, the dude live in NH. Nothing but hippies and granola up in them parts…
and Kong, definitely email me. It’s crazy times with the holidays and new baby due any day now (practically any moment) and parents/inlaws in town, but hopefully we can make it happen.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Hey I grew up in coastal CT buddy. I was more of a punk that hung out with a bunch of stinky hippies because they always had the good stuff.
Kong, that is awesome that you got to see them there, that is pretty historical. I used to love the Friday night dinner buffet’s at Nectar’s.
MLB was cool. I remember watching seeing PJ first on MTV’s headbangers ball and was hooked. Out of that whole era Alice in Chains was by far my favorite.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Also Prismo, during that time it got very hippie like for music.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
TX–Will definitely email and hope things work out great with the new little TX on the way. Will be out and about visiting loads of people Sun and Mon so can be flexible and hope to see you.
Gary–I was VERY lucky to be in Burlington when I was for Phish then to move to Seattle at the end of 1989 before anything happened–it all started to happen in 1990 and exploded in fall of 1991 when Nevermind came out. And I loved the fries with gravy and breakfasts at Nectar’s.
After Nevermind, Alice in Chains’ Dirt is my absolute favorite album from that era; I still listen to it often. Just such a great record. Love Jar of Flies and Sap too. MLB was so cool–like a cooler, glam version of Guns N Roses with a better Jim Morrison almost. Landrew the Love Child really rocked.
Funny Layne Staley tidbit—when we first moved there, we used to go to parties all over to meet people and would sometimes see him–he was definitely good looking, but often dressed in rags and wasted and in need of a shower–but EVERY time, like clockwork, you would see him at a party and the 4–5 absolutely HOTTEST women there (and Seattle is loaded with hotties of all ages) would be surrounding Layne like moths to a particularly enticing flame. The guy exuded charisma like no one I have ever seen. Loved his voice. His downfall and death is one of rock’s all-time saddest stories.
Guys, have to get to work, but this conversation reminds me of how cool this place and all of you are!
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Oh and totally forgot this. Ran from NY to Ohio for the weekend with a bunch of friends to see Phish back to back in Clev and Cinci, when I got back Sunday my friend called and scored tickets to a impromptu show for the Beastie Boy’s at the Hammerstein Ballroom on that Thursday. Only 1000 people there. The entire cast of SNL where on the right balcony and Hortio Sans almost fell off and 3 people were holding his fat bottom by his pants and were able to pull him back over. On the left balcony was Trey and Fishman from Phish because they were making their way to CT where I then saw them the next night.
That B-Boys show was nuts. Black Star opened (Mos Def). and G-Tip joined them on stage. The Beastie Boys did like 3 lets one of them where they played their own instruments. It was unreal.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
GREAT story! Damn that must have been a hell of a show!
Loved the Beasties and really like that Black Star record.
Been listening to Kanye a lot lately too…our old commenter Whataputz sure was right that Kanye’s stuff is awesome.
gategem
12/13/2012-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
I have a pre-recorded, 4 track, 3/4IPS, Stereo open reel tape from ATCO Records titled “Blind Faith.” Blind Faith was Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood, Ginger Baker and Rick Grech.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Don’t forget you have homework this weekend Prismo.
Rustyjr
12/13/2012-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
You must die !
Stick
12/13/2012-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
Hey, this is like getting a zero% interest loan on your car. Silly not to do it.
Payrolls 8 years from now are likely to dwarf current levels anyway, so if this helps them compete before then I won’t complain.
srt
12/13/2012-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Taking the emotion out of this, you are correct Rusty.
Mets are dangling Dickey to see if some team will give up whatever it is they’re asking for.
Dickey is holding out for a contract offer better than the initial low ball one they first gave him.
Can’t fault either side on this.
Not sure why ownership saw the need to comment about Dickey. Just leave it to the GM you hired
TX
12/13/2012-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Dangle… did anyone else not chuckle?
Stickguy
12/13/2012-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
she was doing this yesterday too without realizing it. Queen of the double entendres.
srt
12/13/2012-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
hahaha -I guess I’ll need to watch what words I use regarding Dickey.
Get your minds out of the gutter!
Prismo
12/13/2012-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
LOL you kill me 4d.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
“Mets are dangling Dickey”.
This needs no comment.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
If they can get Olt AND Martin from the Rangers that would potentially be an excellent deal.
But really, if they are actively shopping him and that is the priority, there’s no reason to be exchanging offers and even less reason to be debating it in the press.
Either they want to sign him or they don’t; they just look like wafflers at best and incompetents at worst right now.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
The more I have been reading about Olt, the more I don’t want the guy. If he was that good he wouldn’t of been in AA at 24.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
I totally agree. And he is a 3B who has like 5 pro games in the OF.
But the Martin guy looks really good–if we got them both it could transform the OF and maybe both of them become MLB hitters.
I guess, to me, if Dickey is going to be dealt–which sadly seems to be the case–I hope they get two pretty good prospects if they aren’t getting Profar or d’Arnaud, which they probably aren’t.
Small samples, but Martin shredded AA in 2011 and shredded AAA in his 2nd stint this year.
Stick
12/13/2012-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
martin looks good. getting the 2 of them would be a solid return it seems.
but, there is another option here. Though I hate to mention it, since this FO does not have a creative bone in it’s collective body.
either make it a 3 way deal (mets keep martin and redirect Olt elsewhere), or just do the deal, then turn around and shop Olt to other teams that need a 3B. Does not have to be 1 big deal.
it does though sound like the guy is much more valuable as a 3B.
of course, sending DW out to LF would work too! he quite possibly be a fine OF. Used to the angle off the bat, plenty quick. and the arm accuracy might not be as much of an issue!
anyway, my theory is to get the best possible talent (like in the draft), and work out how to accomodate the excess later. because having too many good players, even at the same position, is not a bad thing.
TX
12/13/2012-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Not that Wright is on Chipper’s level, but how was Chipper’s D at third. From memory, I want to say it was good, but never top notch quality.
And really, if it made the team better, I wonder if they would ever consider approaching Wright on that. If Olt was that much better at 3B than the OF and Wright’s ability to man the OF was not that much of a drop off from what he gives you at 3B, then why the heck not. Not like what they have going now is working all that well.
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
I think it was pretty good but he last a lot of range with all those injuries.
Prismo
12/13/2012-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Ryan Howard was in AA at 24. I’d take his early career on my team.
TRS86
12/13/2012-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
Keep in mind as well that last year was only his 3rd year in the minors. He has basically went A-, A+, AA and got a call up straight from AA to MLB during a pennant race. Lets not make the kid out to be a scrub. He also battled some injuries his 2nd year netting him only 73 games that year. Total he has 237 games in the minors and a .282 .391 .521 .912 slash over that time. I think the kid will hit.
Final thought on this but also looking at the Rangers minor league makeup it appears they may use AAA more like what the Mets did in the past. Backups.
srt
12/13/2012-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Agree with you guys on Olt. The return has to include another piece as I don’t see the value of Olt for Dickey as being equal.
He’s a bit older, no one knows if he can play the OF, we’ve got a 3rd baseman – and if the idea is to flip Olt once we get him, we’ll probably have to add to that deal to get anything of value for our needs.
greggofboken
12/13/2012-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Correct. I have no problem shopping him for high value, no problem w/a low-ball offer that — were he to accept — would be a bargain too good to pass up. Both sides have miscalculated in playing this out in front of the press. It shows a great degree of tone-deafness that the Mets were oblivious to how the news of their offer would be received. As it seems they always are.
Shelve the talks for the time being unless either side is willing to move forward in a meaningful, end-game kind of fashion. Keep shopping him agressively. Get a deal done. Broaden your thinking and your scope — go beyond Dickey if it’ll get you what you want.
Q-Rod
12/13/2012-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t read this comment before. You are right for sure – the Wilpons, especially Jeff Wilpon – are indefensible, simple, stupid, scummy, short sighted people. Terrible owners. Terrible people. A stain on the reputation of Major league Baseball.
Having said that, I’m in favor of anything that gets the Mets the highest return for RA Dickey.
Q-Rod
12/13/2012-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Your last two sentences are incongruous:
“I am comfortable with either scenario because if you trade Dickey the Mets in theory would be plugging the gaping holes in their roster, and if you keep Dickey you are in possession of one of the top pitchers in the game.
So until this situation is resolved we will all be angry, upset and disenfranchised.”
I agree that you should be ‘comfortable’ with either outcome: Dickey for three years or two top prospects. So why are you ‘angry, upset and disenfranchized?’ It seems like the Mets hold the cards and are playing them correctly.
Dickey is great but the Mets took a chance in extending him through 2013 and are now reaping the benefits of that decision. Its a rare win for the mets, and one that we should hope the Mets play well, as they have – so far.
Stick
12/13/2012-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
it is a very rare “win win” situation for the mets. though they somehow usually seem to turn those into a loss too.
but we shall see.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
They are most definitely not playing it well by offering Dickey a below-market cheapskate offer designed to be refused while supposedly shopping him very aggressively.
That is–at the very least–terrible PR and a terrible way to treat a guy who has given them incredible value on and off the field.
Either sit down and see if the differences can be worked out and make a deal, or STFU with the non-offer offers and try to trade him.
It’s not that hard to act like professionals, which the Mets most definitely are not in this situation.
Q-Rod
12/13/2012-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you on this single point: The Wilpons should be up front with him regarding their intentions. And I bet they have been up front with Dickey’s representatives.
I think its perfectly clear that the Mets prefer to trade Dickey. Failing that, they will aggressively move to sign him.
They should have said to Dickey what Wright said to them: We will not engage in contract extension negotiations until the start of spring training (or whenever). Wright said that he wouldn’t negotiate during the season. Same concept.
Stickguy
12/13/2012-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
sandy was right up front and public about how they were exploring all options for RA. Not that they wanted to trade him, but still seeing what teams are offering.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Then why offer ridiculous low-ball, non-offer contract extensions?
TRS86
12/13/2012-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Why, to see if he would sign it…
Also, while we haven’t read it yet, I am willing to bet a NTC is an issue as well.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
They knew there was ZERO chance he would sign what they have thus far offered, nor did they want him to.
If they wanted to sign him, why would they be aggressively shopping him?
Come on.
TRS86
12/13/2012-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
I look at it differently.
They are willing to do which ever makes the team better in the long run.
They have valued signing Dickey at X amount =Y value
They have valued trading Dickey for one prospect = Y value -1
They have valued signing Dickey for what he wants=Y value -1
They have valued trading Dickey for 2 prospects = Y value +2.
I really believe they would be fine with keeping him if they don’t receive the package they want. Thus they can want to sign him AND aggressively shop him. They are not mutually exclusive.
srt
12/13/2012-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
Real – regarding that NTC…saw a mention of that in an article yesterday. They said there was no way a contract extension with the Mets would include a no trade clause for Dickey.
greggofboken
12/13/2012-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
I’m curious about that. Only because Alderson was asked about the possibility of signing him and then flipping him and expressly said he wouldn’t. When he later said that they’d agreed on length and structure, I inferred that a NTC was part of the conditions.
Could I ask where you spotted this?
Stickguy
12/13/2012-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
even without a formal NTC, I don’t see it happening. Just really poor form old bean. Especially if they negotiate it as a go forward relationship.
now of course, down the line (trade deadline or next off season) that could change, but it would cause an uproar IMO to sign him then turn around and flip him (assuming of course that was not part of the deal in the first place).
Prismo
12/13/2012-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
For the record, I believe a signed player cannot be traded until June 15th of the following season, without written consent of the player. So Sandy could not sign Dickey and immediately flip him to another team. He could do that as soon as the trade deadline though.
Stickguy
12/13/2012-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not real sure which of those old school rules I remember correctly, and thich no longer apply with the new CBA. but could be.
greggofboken
12/13/2012-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
Prismo:
No? Even given that Dickey’s deal actually would kick in in 2014? (2013′s a previously contracted option year, yes?)
Prismo
12/13/2012-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
Oh you know what Gregg, I feel like an idiot now. I have no idea how that works. If an extension counts as a new deal and sets those rules in place, or not.
TRS86
12/13/2012-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
yeah I looked for an answer to that earlier in the off-season and never found anything.
darknova306
12/13/2012-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
With all the back and forth sniping going on, this whole situation has such a negative vibe to it. I’m really ready for it to all be over.
Stickguy
12/13/2012-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
agreed. just another typical Met operation. and as always, I no longer care what they do, just do it, get it over with, and please God move onto the more pressing matters (Like actually getting some ML caliber OFs)
kingman 26
12/13/2012-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
But again Dark, the Mets should either be working hard and quietly with Dickey to re-sign him, or be working hard and quietly trying to trade him.
They are trying to have it both ways and trying to make Dickey look bad by making non-offer offers.
TX
12/13/2012-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Completely agree. Remember when Sandy came in and all the leaks were supposedly going to stop? Yeah, me either…
srt
12/13/2012-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Hard to plug leaks when it’s your own ownership out there taking pot shots at an individual player still wearing your NY Met uniform.
Wilpons need to shut up on this and let Sandy do his job.
TX
12/13/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Amen.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Haha! Yeah!
But really, the more time that passes, the more certain I am that Sandy really is simply a PR guy and nothing more.
He’s following orders and telling the public what Fred and Jeff want us to hear.
TX
12/13/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Torres signed with the Giants.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Classic!
He can be Pagan’s backup and receive standing ovations for hitting .212.
TX
12/13/2012-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t want Torres back, but at the same time I’m like “SF has a full outfield already and they are signing backups… and we don’t even have a true starting Outfielder…”
Good times!
TX
12/13/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
And what is funny is that the Mets blog-o-sphere is going to go bananas on this. And he sucks. uff da…
Stickguy
12/13/2012-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
between you and me, most people are idiots. Not here of course, and some blog sites are worse than others. But as a general rule of thumb, assume everyone you meet is a dopeass.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
What Stick said.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Well TX, that is why I think the idea of eternal patience is questionable.
Every day teams are making moves.
We have literally a joke of an OF and a weak starting catcher and jokes for backups, and really, while we have a bunch of live arms with potential for the bullpen, aside from Parnell, we really do not have much in the way of reliable arms out there.
Let’s say we do trade Dickey for Olt or even d’Arnaud or Profar—that is move one. What happens next?
Stickguy
12/13/2012-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
next? Mai Tais. Pay attention man.
oh, and the backups are pretty good. the only problem is they are currently pencilled in as starters at about 4 positions. maybe 5.
TX
12/13/2012-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
What does happen, or what should happen?
What should happen is the Mets should sign Lannan on a 1 or 2 year deal. They should sign Ross (to a 3 year deal, because he isn’t accepting less than that, unfortunately). Ideally, they should package up Mejia & Valdy and try to acquire something of worth. I wish they would send like 4 prospects Colorado’s way to get Fowler. Mejia, Valdy, McHugh & Rosario. If it takes more, add more. They then should snag up Olivo (because we are resigned to a poor C positional tandem). Lastly they should prob pick up some backup infielder of sorts.
Now, if I try to write out what they probably will do, I’ll just get mad, so i won’t bother.
Prismo
12/13/2012-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
WOOOOO!!!!
Between Bay and Torres both being gone, our outfield is already much improved over last season!
SaltyGary
12/13/2012-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
OK so I was wrong about Sandy. There now have been significant changes to the OF with Bay and Torres gone. I will eat my crow now.
Prismo
12/13/2012-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
They played in 202 combined games for the Mets last season. It’s definitely a big change, even if we don’t have any new blood out there yet.
Hairston played in another 134 games. If they all go that’s 336 game’s worth of change! (although I’m sure many of those were just late-inning substitutions)
Mr North Jersey
12/13/2012-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
LoL.
srt
12/13/2012-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Oops, you beat me to it!
greggofboken
12/13/2012-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
This is a thing of beauty.
srt
12/13/2012-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
OT:
Giants sign Torres.
That’s on OF we won’t have to worry will wind up back in Queens.
Stickguy
12/13/2012-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
thank the lord. I can put up with a lot, but that might have been too much.
of course, will the Torres haters reverse their tune, now that a genius GM and winning team picked him up?
TX
12/13/2012-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
1 year, 2 mil…
Hairston rumored to be looking for 4.5 mil per year for 2 years… just a kick in the sack knowing Hairston can’t even play everyday.
fongulalou
12/13/2012-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Thank God for that!….Talk about a bad baseball player.
I could use some help on an unrelated baseball topic.
Read another cover story on yahoo sports this morning knocking the Shields-Myers deal b/t KC & TB.
I think i’m missing something b/c since I first heard of the deal, I thought (and still do) this is a great deal for KC. It seems though almost everyone from pro-writers to fans’ postings think this is a terrible move by The Royals. I admit, I don’t get it. What am I missing???
TX
12/13/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
It’s called Prospect Drunk. Myers has already won the triple crown 2xs and the MVP 4 times, didn’t you know? Or, at least that’s what the pundits think… So much potential that is being viewed as a sure shot.
I am not all that high on Shields, but it certainly did bolster up KC’s rotation and they can make a WC run or if Detroit breaks down, a run at the central division.
fongulalou
12/13/2012-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
I kinda figured. I seems to be that the younger (teens and 20s) fans all want to keep every prospect no matter what. I am a fan of Shields AND Wade Davis. I looks to me that The Royals went and got themseves a quasi-ace AND a good young middle rotation starter from a winning org. Sure, they gave up a huge prospect BUT this Royals team is loaded with young position players who’ve they developed for almost a decade now.
Stickguy
12/13/2012-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
there seems to be a huge focus on controllable years now. And prospects have more. of course, they can also spend many of them struggling to become legit players.
I see both sides, and after a lot of reading, think the deal can be one of the good, both sides did well ones.
T has perpetual money issues, and seems t think they have pitching backed up in the pipeline, so grabbing a potential stud bat (for cheap) makes a ton of sense.
KC has been in rebuild limbo for decades, and finally has a solid team on the field, but needed more pitching. So, they looked at the division, and decided this was the time to go for it.
really they were in different situations, and this deal covers both their needs. You can quibble about the specific names, but overall, it makes sense and seems reasonable.
how it turns out? crapshoot either way. Like with the Pagan deal. At the time, logical, reasonable and defensible. Did not work out for the mets of course, but sometimes players do that to you! does not mean that at the time it was not a good idea to try.
fongulalou
12/13/2012-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I can see both sides. Not knocking The Rays, their financial situation is always shaky. But for The Royals, they’ve been losing for 20 years, have drafted and slowly developed all these position players and want to finally made a push in a pretty weak division.
Plus, they’re adding the pitching to a brutal staff. not a mediocore one BUT an awful, awful staff. Bruce Chen and Luke Hochevar at the top of your rotaion???
Stickguy
12/13/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
hey, they can still add Dickey to the staff if they want to part with Perez. I would be all for that.
fongulalou
12/13/2012-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
I’d want more than that BUT I’d be happy for Dickey. I,ve always had a soft spot for The Royals since I was a kid due to their battles with the yankees 30-35 yrs ago.
kingman 26
12/13/2012-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Hahaha!
I was SO psyched when they finally beat the Yanks when Brett hit that blast off Gossage in Game 3 in 1980!
greggofboken
12/13/2012-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Oddly enough, Torres had the highest outfield WAR on the team last year (1.2) except for Hairston (1.5). Surprising.
TX
12/13/2012-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
Mr North Jersey
12/13/2012-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
1st a word of advice: Eating cold chicken after 11:00pm can lead to upset stomach.
Going to try and watch “Trouble with the Curve” and see if that along with some Alka-Seltzer helps.
Who knows maybe by the time the film is over the Mets will have signed Dickey to an extension.
Prismo
12/13/2012-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
Angels got Hamilton. Wow.
Wonder where this leaves the Rangers…
Prismo
12/13/2012-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
This could leave a trade for Trumbo open…I know Kingman is pumped.