D’Arnaud and Syndergaard would be an great return for Dickey. Hard to see the Mets getting a better player than D’Arnaud in another deal.
— Ben Badler (@BenBadler) December 16, 2012
Sandy Alderson and the New York Mets have received the absolute MAXIMUM possible return for R.A. Dickey #impressive
— JIM BOWDEN (@JimBowdenESPNxm) December 16, 2012
Tell you in three years if I like this deal for Mets.Tell you right now it’s perfect for Jays. Right time to go all in, deal prospects
— Andy Martino (@MartinoNYDN) December 16, 2012
As I wrote in DN today, d’Arnaud ia great get for Alderson, but Mets also telling fans 2013 is a lost cause. And they still have no OFs.
— John Harper (@NYDNHarper) December 16, 2012
Many BB people surprised Jays trading d’Arnaud, but I like their gamble. Dickey could put them over the top w/ dominant year or two.
— John Harper (@NYDNHarper) December 16, 2012
I know R.A. Dickey was a great guy and a great story last year, but the Mets’ future is brighter today than it was yesterday. #Dickey
— Bill Price (@TheBitterBill) December 16, 2012
Repeating: Alderson made the best possible trade here. Mets future brighter. Just depends how long you think Dickey can be elite starter.
— John Harper (@NYDNHarper) December 16, 2012
Rival exec says Syndergaard already has advanced feel for fastball/curve/change. On the Mets-Jays trade overall, he says “both sides win.”
— Marc Carig (@MarcCarig) December 16, 2012
Trade looks good in the long view. But it’s hard to blame Mets fans for being mad about seeing more of the same in the immediate future.
— Marc Carig (@MarcCarig) December 16, 2012
In short, I like the Dickey trade. Trying to make the organization viable for years to come. Still hard to let go if a 20 game winner.
— Kevin Burkhardt (@KBurkhardtSNY) December 17, 2012
I admire & respect R.A. Dickey, but I wouldn’t trade Travis d’Arnaud & Noah Syndergaard to get a 38-year-old knuckleballer. #BlueJays #Mets
— Jim Callis (@jimcallisBA) December 16, 2012
52 comments
darknova306
12/17/2012-1:13am at 1:13 am (UTC -4)
Obviously, even a deal that looks great at the time can be a bust for one or both teams, so time will tell about this one. It does seem perfect for both sides, though.
TX
12/17/2012-3:08am at 3:08 am (UTC -4)
John Harper… Smells like a summers eve to me…
srt
12/17/2012-7:49am at 7:49 am (UTC -4)
HAHAHA!
srt
12/17/2012-7:53am at 7:53 am (UTC -4)
If the Mets weren’t in this position, we’d be enjoying both Dickey and a competitive post season team going into 2013.
Since the Wilpons have no clue, we’re in year 5 of a bottom feeder team and had to give up our CY award winner to have any hope of restocking the organization to get back to a post season team sooner rather than later.
I hate losing RA Dickey. Met fans won’t even get to enjoy our first 20 game, CY award winner next season. I get why the trade had to be made though and since it did, sounds like we did get back the best possible pieces for RA. Time will tell how those pieces work out.
#BlameTheWilpons
Prismo
12/17/2012-8:20am at 8:20 am (UTC -4)
I saw a poll on a popular Blue Jays blog – “who would you prefer to trade along with d’Arnaud?” About 25% choose Syndergaard, same chose Sanchez. But around 50% picked Gose. I found that interesting.
Stickguy
12/17/2012-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
synergies probably has more upside, and likely could net a good player in a trade (even right now, certainly with another dominant yer), but Gose would have filled a much bigger need now, and would still be around for the rebuilding process and beyond.
at some point, they have to trade young pitching for some bats.
Q-Rod
12/17/2012-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
I admire Sandy for getting the best possible assets for Dickey rather than worrying about position. Anyway, I think this trade makes it a bit easier to secure an outfielder. The Mets are now loaded in pitching prospects to the point where there are more starting pitchers than there are spots in the minor league rotations.
TRS86
12/17/2012-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
“I admire Sandy for getting the best possible assets for Dickey rather than worrying about position.”
Right, you don’t trade for prospects based on need and you don’t draft based on need. You get the best players you can get and things will take care of themselves.
Stick
12/17/2012-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
gose though is in that gray area between prospect and ML player, since he has already been up to spend time in the Show, and you would be looking at him as the incumbent CF to start the season.
But, still time to trade for Gomez, but unless he comes real cheap, it would almost have to be dontingent on singing some sort of an extension, and we all know that ain’t happening with a Borass client.
TRS86
12/17/2012-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
I am not so sure about Boras anymore. I think he might be desperate enough to just try and get his guy a good deal considering the issues with Soriano now.
Stick
12/17/2012-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
If the mets could get Gomez for a reasonable package, and extend him now for some more years at decent money, than I would be happy.
Q-Rod
12/17/2012-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
I guess it reflects a level of sophistication on the part of theBblue Jay blogging community. I suspect we Met bloggers would feel similarly. If you poll us about who the ‘non-elite’ prospect is, I bet no one here would vote in favor of say Fulmer or Tapia over a more advanced hitting prospect (assuming the Mets had one besides Flores), though both are pretty far from Queens.
Stickguy
12/17/2012-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
I agree with Martino and Harper. Teams were in different places, and both sides got what they needed.
and you really can’t say how good it was until many years from now, but on paper, they did well.
Prismo
12/17/2012-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
On paper is all that matters – unless Sandy has a crystal ball that tells him of the future. Trades have to be made without that knowledge, so it annoys me when writers say “we’ll see who won the trade in 10 years.” That’s a cop-out and it does a disservice to GMs across the league who can’t possible know how players will perform 5 years from now.
Stick
12/17/2012-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
agreed. and that is why I have a problem with the crowd that wants to vilify Sandy for the “worst trade ever” (though it is not even close to that) Pagan deal last year.
srt
12/17/2012-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
This.
Donal
12/17/2012-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
The question should be “was the thinking behind it sound?”
If the answer is yes and they keep applying that thinking, then even if this trade busts, other trades will work out. It is all about the big picture.
TRS86
12/17/2012-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, that is why I STILL approve of the Pagan trade while it backfired mightily.
SaltyGary
12/17/2012-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
Thank you for not putting anything up from the guys at the post. Can we do a site wise blackout of Puma and Davidoff? They are the TMZ of NY Sports and should not be relied upon for the truth. We can rely on many others that do a fine job.
srt
12/17/2012-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
In contrast, love these 2 articles linked over on AA:
Mets Show Gratitude With a Pitch in the Dirt
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/sports/baseball/r-a-dickey-deserved-better-from-mets.html?ref=sports&_r=0
Raising The Stakes
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40669544/
TRS86
12/17/2012-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Nope, sorry I am tired of all the articles about how the Mets mistreated RA or that they did him dirty or disrespected him. They owed him absolutely nothing, he agreed to a contract, one where they both took risk. It did not have a no trade clause and he is scheduled to be traded. Nothing in there disrespects Dickey.
TRS86
12/17/2012-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
And a craphead comment like this just shows a blatant misunderstanding of the situation:
“By trading Dickey to the Toronto Blue Jays, pending the negotiation of a contract extension, the Mets essentially told their fans that they do not expect to contend for the next three years. The Mets have already staggered through four consecutive losing seasons, three shy of the franchise record. Now the wait to be relevant drags on.”
Bullcrap, so if they had kept him it would have shown the opposite?
TRS86
12/17/2012-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Also the 2nd article:
“There has indeed been a feeling among a number of baseball people this season that Dickey was overly self-promoting. ”
So is this also an example of the Mets bashing RA? Since when did the Mets become responsible for the reports of beat writers?
All bullcrap. This conspiracy stuff will be the downfall of Mets fans.
Stick
12/17/2012-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
it really says they think they have pitching talent coming quick, and need help on the field. and by 2014, it really means nothing one way or the other.
2013? Sure, it likely lowers their chances (but depending on all the moving parts, it may not), but realistically, they had no chance anyway.
and if anything, this makes 2014 MORE likely to be good. The new talent could be helping, Dickey is certainly no guarantee at his age, and he also would have been eating up ~15mill in payroll. If that instead gets redirected to a real OF say, then yes, the team could be better in 2014 without dickey, since he does not exist in a vacuum.
Donal
12/17/2012-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
They need to drum up attention. They over blow ever stupid little thing to justify their pay checks. The nonsense about when the lawyers sent him the letter about getting hurt mountain climbing was just some legal CYA, but it got turned into the wilpons trying to forbid him from doing it.
The Christmas party comments weren’t even all that inflammatory, but got turned into Dickey feeling insulted.
Stick
12/17/2012-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
I agree. way too much nonsense surrounding this (the feelings stuff). If RA did not want to be tied to a contract, he should have assumed all the risk and just signed 1 year deals.
the rest of this (most of which I just ignored!) seems like background noise, and just part of the negotiations process (IOW, the business side of baseball).
both sides came out way ahead on their 3 year “marriage”, now leave on good terms, say the right things, and hopefully it all works out for both sides.
Typical Mets of course, when they finally do land a top talent on good terms, he has to be the biggest oddity (as a player) in MLB.
srt
12/17/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
I agree about the nonsense but again, let’s put the blame where it belongs.
Ownership should keep their mouth shut when it comes to individual players, especially those they’re contemplating trading. They’ve got a GM, let him do his job.
Mets PR sucks and has for a long time.
TRS86
12/17/2012-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Does that apply to the players too? That they should also keep their mouth shut and not bite the hand that feeds them? What other job could you bad mouth your boss and owners in the press?
Again, both sides needs to shut up.
srt
12/17/2012-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Well, water on the bridge now.
Until the next PR debacle…..
Prismo
12/17/2012-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
This is my favorite quote so far from the MLBTR comment section: “As a lifer Mets fan I don’t think Dickey is all that. I think this trade is a steal. I’m more disappointed in losing Thole.”
LOL what
Q-Rod
12/17/2012-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Heh. They did, however, trade Thole at the bottom of his value.
TRS86
12/17/2012-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Or the top….
Stick
12/17/2012-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
was their handle “Joshs Mom”?
Stick
12/17/2012-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
a couple of random thoughts:
- this team really needs some OF talent. And I realize that this is 100% a rebuild year, so the idea of playing the prospects to let them take lumps and develop is fine. They just don’t have any actual prospects to do that with (unless you still count Kirk).
- Sandy has to make mroe trades now. Can’t just call it an off season and close up shop.
- random moves off the top of my head with absolutly no research involved: Duda and stuff for Vinnie the Italian RP from Cleveland. Carlos Gomez: what the hell could he take to get for 1 year? Sign 1 more make-good SP that is not Chris Young because I am tired of him (maybe that Stauffer guy?) Sign Hairston if they can get him for 2/reasonable $. Need someone to hit RH out there.
TRS86
12/17/2012-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Well again they most likely have another 3-5M to spend if they receive cash back for Buck. Surely that leaves enough cash to go get a guy like Cody Ross.
Stick
12/17/2012-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
OK, I see. you meant another 3-5 in addition to what they already had. Not 3-5 in total. I hope!
Q-Rod
12/17/2012-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
I bet they resign Hairston this week. And make a small trade on a ‘buy low’ OF. Maybe they spend on one reliever and one starter. Done.
TRS86
12/17/2012-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t be surprised if they say they like that kid that we mentioned last week that no one had heard of…
TRS86
12/17/2012-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Jamie Hoffman right?
Stick
12/17/2012-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
I was the one predicting him.
and they should have mroe than 3-5 left. They supposedly had 10-25 (depending on which number you believe) and if anything just added more.
and didn’t ross go to the Phils? Or was that just a hot rumor? I can’t keep up any more.
but sign Hairston, get a SP reclaimation project, and try to get a real CF (I’ll just keep rolling with Gomez for now).
that puts the OF at Duda/kirk/baxter/gomez/Hairston/Hoffman? though I still think that Duda could be traded, unless the wrist bollocks that up.
srt
12/17/2012-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I think a reunion with Hairston is likely as well.
Stick
12/17/2012-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
2 years, what the heck, as long as he is not more than a platoon guy.
if Scott comes back, then they really just still need a legit CF (RH best), and another SP probably a reclaimation project.
Gomez and Stauffer?
srt
12/17/2012-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
TRS has been suggesting Gomez for a long time.
I wouldn’t mind that.
wanny
12/17/2012-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
I was going to submit the following thoughts as an article idea but I’m too lazy today.
Each of the three big offseason moves seem like great deals when looked at individually in a vacuum. Wright’s deal is at or below market relative to Zimmerman and Longoria. The return for Dickey seems like excellent value. And cutting Bay seems nice.
But together these moves seems as though the Mets are stuck in the middle. Are we rebuilding by trading a Cy Young for prospects, one of whom is a ways away? Are we a win now team paying a 30 year old $100m + in a long term contract? Were we better served just cutting Bay and having the full benefit of his salary loss next season, rather than trying to save nickels and dimes for this season?
Again, I like all of these moves in their own individual occurrences. But what is the direction?
SaltyGary
12/17/2012-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
I came up with a theory that I just loaded. It will be up in a little bit. Just looks like dollars to me and nothing else.
srt
12/17/2012-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Good question.
I think we might be in the same ‘plan’ Toronto was a couple of years ago. We’re starting to hoard prospects until such time they feel the team is ready to compete.
I’m thinking it won’t really be 2013, but I guess that depends on the rest of this off season. If they flip top prospects for an OF, I’m assuming they think we’re closer than I thought.
I can’t see that happening though. Have to imagine they’re going to wait until end of ’13 when more money comes off the books. Plus that gives some of the young ones another year to settle in – like Harvey and Wheeler along with seeing how Ike and Tejada are coming along.
Stick
12/17/2012-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
I’ll save the big comments for Salty’s post. But I was thinking about this recently, and I think they are in the middle. So keeping Wright as a piece of the foundation is OK, since I don’t think they have to go completely back to scratch.
basically, they have the beginnings of a nucleus, and Wright is a special case of elder statesman, and fan appeasement. But really, he is signed for a long time, but is not actually getting that much annually, especially in the later years.
TRS86
12/17/2012-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Sometimes you need a smiling face with a decent bat and big records to guide you through a rebuild.
srt
12/17/2012-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Agree with both of you here.
That and it sounded like ownership was hell bent on keeping him.
TX
12/17/2012-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
I actually thought this was the proper way to go about the offseason. They still need to get a competent OF and a closer (Capps?), but how far away are they really? Theoretically, a decent OF should be able to be acquired in FA (thinking next year, anyway) and a BP can be reconstructed fairly quickly (well, in theory, as the current regime doesn’t quite have the track record). With the IF basically set and a strong looking young rotation, I like the “plan” and I’m more impressed that they were add more high upside pitching the the minors. I just wish they’d invest a tad more on the major league level to get a Ross type player to man the OF on a short term basis vs the retreads and re-retreads…
wanny
12/17/2012-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
i don’t understand why we get so bent out of shape here about news reports and newspaper opinion columns.
srt
12/17/2012-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t speak for anyone else but……
The Mets have enough legitimate stuff to be labeled LOLMets, trying to pile on with Dickey is a stretch.
I guess they’re tired of writing about ownership, Wright doesn’t give them any fodder, no one else really matters so they needed a fresh victim.
I mean…Johan got less coverage when he was accused of rape, for crying out loud.