Even though most consider, including myself, the Mets a long shot to sign Bourn, it does appear the Mets haven’t given up hope:
Despite Mets’ secret visit, Bourn deal a long shot
“To that end, general manager Sandy Alderson and assistant GM John Ricco travelled to Houston last week to have dinner with free agent center fielder Michael Bourn and his agent, Scott Boras, The Post has learned.”
As we learned last week, MLB has given the impression they will not make a ruling on the draft pick compensation until the Mets either sign Bourn (according to some reports) or make a legitimate offer to acquire him.
The stickler to this is that:
“The Post has learned the Mets will not ink Bourn without iron-clad assurances they only would lose a second-round pick to do so. They have vowed not to forfeit the 11th pick in June’s draft, no matter how much they could use Bourn to bat leadoff and upgrade what is currently a flimsy outfield assortment.”
Obviously this saga seems to be more of just something for the writers to talk about but it does appear that the interest is genuine unless you of course subscribe to conspiracy theories.
57 comments
Stick
1/29/2013-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Sandy conspiracy theories is a booming cottage industry at this point. As is agenda driven spin (agenda being, they despise the guy, and everything they think he stands for but really doesn’t).
Though it might have been by accident, but the Wilpons may have gotten lucky here. They seem to have ended up with the only ‘front man” that could make them seem like sympathetic figures in this mess, instead of the primary cause of it.
Good think we have SRT to keep us focused on the real villans in the story!
srt
1/29/2013-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
hahaha
As much as I believe SA as current GM is the result of part of the deal the WIlpons made with Selig to hold onto the team…..I think SA was the perfect type GM to come in at this time and do what needed to be done. He appears to be the type of GM with plenty of patience and completely oblivious or just plain doesn’t give a damn – to public opinion. I’m sure it helps that there was no temptation to spend b/c the money just was not there.
Stick
1/29/2013-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
IMo, he just does not care. Basically, he is imune. Not like he is worried about keeping this job for a long time, or concerned about finding another GM gig after he leaves. He came in with a mandate, and he is doing what he thinks needs to be done. Whether it works or not, won’t know that for a few years yet!
also comes in handy here IMO having that “I am smarter than you” attitude, which he really does seem to have!
problem is, once he is done the foundation work, they really need a hot shot young guy to come in and keep the balls in play. But since we are getting Jeffy and his lapdog J.P instead, I would rather keep Sandy.
srt
1/29/2013-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
You’re last paragraph is my biggest fear….Sandy leaving and Jeff taking over.
My biggest fantasy however, is when Jeff becomes sole owner of the team – he decides he doesn’t want it and sells.
Stick
1/29/2013-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Could happen 9the sell out part). Not sure that being a laughing stock owner is all it is cracked up to be. And if th ealternative is to cash out hundreds of millions of dollars and go become a “jet set playboy” (do they still have those) by the time you are 50, with no responsibilities, why the heck not?
Either that, or he promotes himself into Fred’s ‘grand poobah” role, and actually does hire someone (like a Sandy) to take over as COO and make all the pesky organizational decisions.
hey, no matter what, it is good to be the king! As long as you aren’t the one waiting for the shake…
TX
1/29/2013-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I posted this elsewhere, but here are my thoughts on this.
I still maintain a 4 year, 52-55 million dollar deal gets this done and the big hold up will be money vs. the pick. If the Mets can somehow keep the 11th pick, they probably overpay a little. If they can’t, the overall cost or years drops. And, I’m thinking they are hammering out those details and once they have something in place, that is when MLB will be approached about the spirit on the top 10 protected picks vs. 10 worst teams picks being protected.
I’d say they could have a deal contingent on the Mets keeping the pick or the signing falls thru, but I doubt that would fly, due to the details coming out and it would set the Bourn market and you konw Boras never would want that getting out…
TRS86
1/29/2013-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
I will say this TX, I see no way in hell they are signing him if they have to give up their pick but I actually think they have a great case of keeping him. Knowing Bud though, he’s not going to make a ruling until he absolutely has to. Thus I am not sure the Mets will have the luxury of knowing the pick is protected.
TX
1/29/2013-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, it’s going to be a risk, one way or the other. I’m not sure you can actually do what I mention above, with the contract tied to whatever pick they would lose. I’m certain, that this is the crux of the whole issue.
TRS86
1/29/2013-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, as I said on …. the other thread…. I think the only way they sign him and lose the pick is if the deal is so great that he can be traded for more than the pick would have been worth. So basically, you get Bourn while guys develop and let someone else develop your pick. The problem with that is of course no one is likely to give you top pick value for Bourn during the season.
srt
1/29/2013-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
Agree with this.
Stick
1/29/2013-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
I agree (and speculated on it someplace) that the pick is essentially being baked into the deal. Similar to a trade (if you want better prospects back, eat more salary).
so like you say, they are maybe offering 3/36 if they are losing the pick, but have a contingency that if the pick is protected, they will add a 4th year or go 3/42 instead?
In any case, I am now solidly off the Bourn bandwagon. I do not want him. Well, he would be OK, but not at the cost (to the draft, or potential future signings).
Remember, they not only lose the #1 pick, but a large chunk of the bonus pool $, so no chance of getting an under slot, leaving money to overslot later on. So less picks, lower picks, and less chance on a overslot pick later.
that, and Bourn IMO really is not that good. Outside of some steals, he is a nice player, but not a star. And if you want to get him just for the D, might as well roll with a cheap glove-only guy for a year. And if he loses a step or is another one of those guys that inks the big deal and decides to stop running as much, he offers little.
Also a big opportunity cost. IMO, next off season there is going to be at most 1 “big” FA signing. And if they get Bourn now, he is the one. So no shot at any other FAs of note. Including my favorite, Carlos Gomez!
Prismo
1/29/2013-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Michael Bourn is WAY better than Carlos Gomez. His career OBP is 70 points higher and slugging just 14 points lower. I do agree that Bourn isn’t great though, but he’s good.
TRS86
1/29/2013-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry, but I would take Gomez any day. Mostly because I believe he put it together last year with 19 HR and 37 SB.
TX
1/29/2013-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
You would take Gomez because he’s younger, costs less, was a former Met (tugs the heart strings) and won’t cost a pick. I still think Bourn is better, but I wouldn’t be upset if Gomez was a Met again.
Prismo
1/29/2013-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
Sure did put it together with that hearty .305 OBP.
TRS86
1/29/2013-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
You take the good you take the bad….
You take the good, you take the bad,
you take them both and there you have
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.
Yet keep in mind that even with an OBP that low his OPS was still higher.
gategem
1/29/2013-11:28pm at 11:28 pm (UTC -4)
Prismo once again we agree. One of the advantages of retirement is it gave me the opportunity to view via the extra innings package more games than otherwise I would want to see. I wasn’t overwhelmed with either player but if I had to choose one it would be Bourn. I would like to say that while I love speed in a player I’m not a major proponent of the stolen base. But the threat of a stolen base as well as pure speed can have a major impact on subsequent hitters. I look at players such as Bourn and Gomez as potential run producers via the number of runs they score rather than drive in. Thus, for these two OBP is an extremely valuable stat.
darknova306
1/29/2013-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Meh, I really couldn’t care less about Bourn. He’s a nice speed guy, that’s about it. He doesn’t bring enough to the table offensively, to me, to justify spending that much money on him regardless of the draft picks.
Put one of the defensive minded MiLB guys out there and keep looking elsewhere for possible longer term solutions.
srt
1/29/2013-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
I still believe when all is said and done, we’ll be rolling with the OFs we currently have.
TRS86
1/29/2013-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Would you be completely surprised if Sandy did an Omar type move and traded for an under-performing Angels OF in Wells with the Angels paying all but about 2.00 of his salary?
Stick
1/29/2013-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
GMJ part 2?
maybe a little, though it does make a bit of sense as a stop-gap.
Unless, of course, the plan all along was to give enough time to DUda, Dekker, Kirk, Cowgirl, brown, and maybe Lagares this year to see if any of them look like keepers for next year (even if in a bench/platoon capacity). Might as well use a punt year for OTJ, right?
so, what does Wells give you? maybe a few more wins? but enough to make any difference, and to be worth having the potential “future” guys miss all the ABs and PT?
unless you are rolling the dice that he has a rebound year, and you can flip him along the way?
anyway, for RF, just as soon see Brown/Spin/baxter fighting for PT out there, and overall, they have a damned good shot at being as productive.
TRS86
1/29/2013-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Stick, I can’t say I see Brown or Cowgill as long-term players. I hope I can say otherwise.
Stick
1/29/2013-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
cowgill maybe, but either one could become a useful platoon/bench keeper. Sort of Hairston on the cheap (Brown) or Torres on the cheap with way more production. And at minimum wage, very valuable to a low budget franchise.
The guys that need the time to prove themselves keepers are more Duda, Kirk, Dekker really.
and I can guarantee that Vernon Wells is NOT part of the future, so if he takes the chance away from one of the other guys, why bother, unless you think he somehow makes the team a contendor?
My theory is, when you are trying to rebuild like this, is if you have a prospect that is close, and may be a keeper, give him a chance to learn on the job a bit. Only fill a spot with an old retread placeholder when you have absolutely no one to consider giving the time to.
TRS86
1/29/2013-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
You could be right but considering how we don’t really have one OF on the team with a full season of OF under his belt I wouldn’t mind seeing Wells in RF vs LH and seeing if there is anything left.
Prismo
1/29/2013-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
Cowgill will surprise you if he’s given a chance!! I have faith in him (well, at least as much as I have in any other of our outfielders).
srt
1/29/2013-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
Actually, yes….I would be surprised if he did that.
kingman 26
1/29/2013-1:48pm at 1:48 pm (UTC -4)
“…it does appear that the interest is genuine unless you of course subscribe to conspiracy theories.”
Or if you understand that there is such a thing as public relations. Especially for an organization in a terrible down period losing fans and attendance in droves every year.
Or if you understand that there is such a thing as people in positions of authority being disingenuous.
If they have vowed that there’s no chance they lose the 1st rounder and if MLB has clearly told them that they have to commit 100% before a ruling is made on the issue, then the interest is most definitely not serious.
I am thrilled with the Dickey return, thrilled with Marcum, and like the reliever they just picked up.
But the status quo of poverty, PR, and outright dishonesty has not totally changed. This remains a team in serious and dire financial straits.
If you think it’s impossible that a business in this situation would not spend a couple grand for plane tickets, a hotel, and dinner to get literally weeks of publicity and entice their fan base, well, you are a tad naive.
Stick
1/29/2013-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
but just ask Tex. No one would go to Houston if they really did not have to!
kingman 26
1/29/2013-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
Well, that I can agree too!
Great food in San Antonio though…
TX
1/29/2013-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
That ain’t the half of it!
TRS86
1/29/2013-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
I think that the thoughts of Sandy and Boras and Bourn getting together for dinner just to try to pull one over on the fans is much more far fetched than thinking the Mets are actually interested.
kingman 26
1/29/2013-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
Bourn and Boras would obviously have nothing to do with it.
Clearly, as the market is not remotely what they would have thought/wanted/expected it to be, they are going to talk to any team right now.
Boras probably would also offer to help strong-arm the league office regarding the draft pick issue.
Ultra-wealthy/powerful people in distress do amazing and bizarre things TRS.
TRS86
1/29/2013-3:19pm at 3:19 pm (UTC -4)
Sure they do Kingman. But my point is this.
Considering all the information that we have and the fact that met at dinner with the three of them,
Which is more logical? The Mets are faking interest and Boras and Bourn don’t care or the The Mets are genuinely interested?
If you ask before this info on the dinner I could at least go 50/50. To me this puts it in the highly unlikely category of conspiracy theories.
Stick
1/29/2013-4:46pm at 4:46 pm (UTC -4)
IMO, the Mets are only interested in a bargain falling into their laps (full market price, they pass on that).
so yes, they have legitimate interest now that it (unexpectedly) appears that he might be going somewhere at a deep discount.
I don’t think their level of desire for the guy has really changed. The only thing that did is they smell blood on the water, so are doing something about it (no reason to do so early in the off season).
But, as soon as some other team (Mariners? Tex?) smells the same blood and swims over with a bigger checkbook, Sandy will fold the tent and go back home.
But Knog be damned, right now, in the current scenario, it is legitimate interest and not a smokescreen conspiracy.
kingman 26
1/29/2013-4:48pm at 4:48 pm (UTC -4)
TRS of course you do make a lot of sense here.
But IF my idea was true, I would only really mean that Sandy was going through the motions; I would most definitely not be including Bourn or Boras in any of this.
But I will ask this—if it is true that MLB has made it 100% clear that there will be no decision on the draft pick until a serious/irrevocable offer is made to Bourn, and if it is true that the Mets have 0% interest in risking losing their 1st round pick, then don’t you think it is a strange situation? That’s my feeling.
And I feel that it is pretty certain that contract offers made to Reyes and Dickey were clearly non-offers designed to be rejected. Now of course this is a different situation, but all things considered, I just think it is reasonable to take what the Mets say with a somewhat large grain of salt these days, that’s all.
kingman 26
1/29/2013-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
Well Stick, I guess I just ask again–if MLB says no decision until the offer’s made and the Mets are truly not going to risk losing the pick, then what exactly are they doing?
Trs86
1/29/2013-5:13pm at 5:13 pm (UTC -4)
King if you can see Aldersons angle then obviously Boras could.
As for your question on the pick, according to one report the Mets had to show significant interest or make a legitimate offer to get a ruling while another said not until signed. So it’s possible they met to discuss money or even a way around the rule including opt out clauses or special conditions in the contract that could change the amount or years based on MLB decision. It’s never been done but this stupid rule never existed either.
srt
1/29/2013-5:36pm at 5:36 pm (UTC -4)
And to take conspiracy theories even further….
Anyone think SA already knows what Selig’s decision will be – and it will be the positive one for the Mets – and knowing that, are going forward trying to lower Boras’ price on Bourn to get a bargain…then also preserve their pick as well after the fact when the ‘official’ decision comes out?
Yes, I know I’m a cynic but you have to admit this would not be surprising – not that we’d ever know one way or the other if SA was as smart as he appears to be.
I’ll just label it the Grassy Knoll theory for now.
kingman 26
1/29/2013-6:16pm at 6:16 pm (UTC -4)
Well TRS, your first sentence is indeed a truly great point.
MF4D–I LOVE that angle on things!
Trs86
1/29/2013-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
But I keep going back to this is Boras and you aren’t pulling one over on him, thus if there is a secret deal btwn Sandy and Bud, Boras has the invisible ink.
Stick
1/29/2013-6:32pm at 6:32 pm (UTC -4)
I think the “deal first” angle is not a big deal. I would bet that any offer would have that written into it, otherwise Mets can pull it off the table. I just can’t belief they would have to make a blind offer like that, with no protection.
Trs86
1/29/2013-7:05pm at 7:05 pm (UTC -4)
No way Bourn signs that though. Ok buddy we sign you unless Bud rules… Not to mention Bud would have up until the draft to decide.
TRS86
1/29/2013-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
“Bourn’s camp is working to persuade Alderson that signing Bourn would give the Mets credibility when pursuing free agents a year from now, Mike Puma of the New York Post reports (on Twitter).”
LOL, so is Bourn the new Pedro?
Stick
1/29/2013-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
that sounds like something only Boras could come up with, and not even Bourn believes, but he is just being a good stooge.
besides, if they sign Bourn now (especially a bit backloaded) it won’t matte, because your entire “big name” FA budget for next off season would be shot to hell.
srt
1/29/2013-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Now THAT sounds just like Boras.
darknova306
1/29/2013-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
Nonsense. All you need to be show legitimacy to potential FAs is a big $$ offer for their services and the bank account to back it up. That’s why the Mets won’t have legitimacy next offseason, and Bourn will do nothing to change that.
Boras is a clown, albeit a clown that’s very good at his sleazy job.
Stick
1/29/2013-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
Bingo. $ talks, Bourn occasionally walks.
darknova306
1/29/2013-5:00pm at 5:00 pm (UTC -4)
Hah! Well played, sir.
wanny
1/29/2013-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
Mets signed an injured relief pitcher today.
And that is probably a better idea than forfeiting the #11 pick for Bourn or signing Bourn to a 4 or 5 year deal regardless of whether they lose the pick.
srt
1/29/2013-5:37pm at 5:37 pm (UTC -4)
I like that minor league signing.
kingman 26
1/29/2013-6:14pm at 6:14 pm (UTC -4)
I do too; big time.
TX
1/29/2013-5:08pm at 5:08 pm (UTC -4)
If the Mets sign Bourn and another reliever (Capps?), I will say this offseason is a success. If no Bourn, but another reliever, I’ll give it a C+ grade. Yes, major holes in the OF, but re-signing Wright, TDA and Syndy + more for Dickey, Signing Marcum and not re-signing Hairston at silly money/years are all positives. Takes away anything but a miracle season to get the 2113 team into the playoffs, but the future is looking good.
darknova306
1/29/2013-5:42pm at 5:42 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, we’ll have to wait till after 2113? Even I’m not THAT cynical
TX
1/29/2013-7:46pm at 7:46 pm (UTC -4)
I blame fat fingers, beer and sleep deprivation. Though, in 2113, DW the 5th will be batting cleanup.
kingman 26
1/29/2013-6:14pm at 6:14 pm (UTC -4)
I would give this offseason a B if he does nothing else, especially when considering finances and the lack of valuable trade chips.
Forced to trade Dickey rather than re-sign him and he gets an awesome return. Surprisingly signs Marcum, and I also like this relief pitcher. And some would also compliment the St. Dimples re-signing.
Adding Marcum and d’Arnaud at some point will most likely be by far the best MLB-level improvements in years.
Hazmet
1/29/2013-10:06pm at 10:06 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s the insult to injury scenario:
Boras is using the the Mets to drive up the price on Bourn’s other suitor: The Mariners.
So, knowing how things go for the Met’s Seattle will have Jason Bay and Bourn patrolling the outfield together with Bay have a resurgent season and we’ll sit here cursing what “should have been 2/3rds of our outfield” even though it never would have happened since I think this is all just a bunch of bs smoke screenage.
gategem
1/30/2013-12:39am at 12:39 am (UTC -4)
You’re being too cynical.Perhaps they were all hungry and had a longing for this particular restaurant in Houston.