According to Ken Rosenthal and SI the Indians have signed Michael Bourn to a 4-year $48M deal with a 5th year vesting option based on plate appearances.
This does lead one to seriously consider just how serious Met interest was.
It also does end the torturous speculation, and the team can now focus on what has the potential to be a historically inexpensive and historically non-productive outfield.
Still, this writer is very happy with the offseason overall. Adding two great prospects for Dickey, signing Marcum, and seriously improving bullpen depth are all moves which could lead to a better 2013 season than expected. When adding in the potential arrival of Zack Wheeler, the future seems brighter than it has in years in Queens.
Stay tuned for updates.
86 comments
Stick
2/11/2013-9:12pm at 9:12 pm (UTC -4)
From Sherman: #Mets offer to Bourn was 4 yrs with no options at the same $48M range he got from #Indians.
so, sounds like more than some BS shell game to trick the fanbase. And frankly, considering how long it took Boras to get a team to blink and pony up the 5th year (at least relatively easy to vest), it must have been a legit one.
Now we can all just move on and see what the young guys can do. Other than Duda (and I like the idea of flipping him to an AL team that needs a DH/1B type), the others all have just enough ML time to have gotten the jitters out of the way, and are entering what should be their peak age years.
hell, after last year, yes I am happy to see what a hungry Cowgill, Kirk and Brown (especially brown) can do instead of Bay and Torres.
They lost Hairstons #s, but I didn’t expect a repeat of the slugging, and I also think Duda will rebound a bit, offsetting some of that, plus whatever Brown does in a platoon.
bottom line, replacing the trio (averaged) of Bay, torres and Hairston is really not all that high of a bar!
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2013-9:20pm at 9:20 pm (UTC -4)
Heyman, Rubin, Sherman and Puma are reporting the following.
Mets did have a four-year offer to Bourn but would not have done it without the draft pick being protected.
Grievance may have taken couple of weeks. Boras wanted to jump now at #Indians offer because it may have gone away by time of #Mets verdict.
Person who knows of #Mets involvement believes Michael Bourn preferred NY, which had same monetary offer.
mets offered $48M for 4 yrs, so they were close. Went to mlb today and found draft-pick issue would have to go to grievance
mets wouldn’t do deal w/o retaining draft pick. Tough for bourn to wait on mets grievance, as it could take days/weeks
Reason #mets didn’t request draft-pick issue to be resolved sooner is belief price would rise omce public pressure mounted
Mets say we’re informed by MLB arb would take 2-3 wks to settle and with spring training here Bourn could not wait, so took #Indians deal
@NYPost_Mets
So to recap: Mets and Bourn had agreement on years and dollars, but Bourn wasn’t going to wait 2-3 weeks for draft pick issue to play out.
greggofboken
2/11/2013-9:36pm at 9:36 pm (UTC -4)
Well…..they should have known the time it wold have taken to have gotten a ruling and had a sense of what Boras/Bourn’s walk-away date was. The patience and deliberation, which served them well in the Dickey and Beltran trades, was not their friend here.
Stick
2/11/2013-9:52pm at 9:52 pm (UTC -4)
probably they played the odds, hoping by now any other teams would not be jumping in.
regardless, it is over, now lets get behind the guys we do have!
darknova306
2/11/2013-9:39pm at 9:39 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not sad to see Bourn go somewhere else, but the way this all went down was so silly. MLB needs to figure out exactly how to deal with this situation in the future, because this draft thing will come up again.
Anyway, good riddance to the ever more annoying Bourn debate, and hello actual baseball!
Stick
2/11/2013-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
well, they still have to wait for Lohse to sign.
But MLB will be insane if they don’t resolve this before next off season, and define the rule for going forward.
Saltygary
2/11/2013-9:42pm at 9:42 pm (UTC -4)
This is a major screw up. I have been very much on the fense with Bourn for the same reasons I was happy the Mets did not resign Reyes. Speed guys regress quicker. When you look at the contract, the state of the current outfield, the lack of outfilders in the farm and the lack of outfielders in next years FA class, to me this is a major screw up. Passing on proven commodity, at a reasonable cost over a gamble is gross negligence IMO.
TX
2/11/2013-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
Considering the reports were that mets had a similar deal in place but Bourne didn’t want to wait on the process to get the pick sorted out, is it a screw up on the Mets part or just a broken system? All said, I wanted Bourn on this team for all the reasons you stated.
.
Saltygary
2/11/2013-10:10pm at 10:10 pm (UTC -4)
Hazmet below probably has it right. If they really wanted him they wouldn’t of let this drag out and would of fought for a answer on the draft pick.
TX
2/11/2013-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
Could be. When dealing with Unions and such, nothing goes quickly or simply. For MLB to make a ruling that the Mets (or anyone else in that situation), would basically be a concession that the teams have money money to spend on the draft pool, thus the players Union is happy, but the owners say “I want to spend less, not more!”, so they would buck that. Why would the owners want to make that call unless they had to. And bringing hypotheticals into it probably isn’t enough to force MLB to make that call. Combine all that with Boras dragging everything to a snails pace and we are left with what we have. Alderson certainly isn’t completely without blame here, but pinning this on him or even completely on the Mets isn’t totally accurate. Combination of an imperfect system, union relations and money.
TX
2/11/2013-9:48pm at 9:48 pm (UTC -4)
Well… Frick.
Overall, I’m still happy with the offseason. I give it B to possible B+, but Bourn old have made this an A. Onto dreams of Stanton and CarGo…
Stick
2/11/2013-9:55pm at 9:55 pm (UTC -4)
Screw next years crop of old/broke/overpaid/declining stiffs.
The answer (assuming no one explodes out of the minors that you weren’t expecting!) is to trade for 1-2 OFs sometime this year (ST would count) through next off-season.
srt
2/11/2013-10:08pm at 10:08 pm (UTC -4)
This.
Hazmet
2/11/2013-9:57pm at 9:57 pm (UTC -4)
The entire Bourn flirtation was just a smoke screen. You can’t tell me that if they were really serious about this they would not have been camped out at MLB offices until the draft pick issue was resolved. I don’t believe with Fred as a life time charter member of the Friends of Bud Star Chamber could not have gotten an expedited ruling to help the team put a better product on the field in the year they are hosting the AS game. This juke and jive got them to spring training and that’s all they were looking to do here.
Stick
2/11/2013-10:04pm at 10:04 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll take the opposite on this one. I believe they were fully serious, and made the best offer, but just weren’t willing to give up the pick. And MLB was probably very sensitive to the perception of playing favorites. So this was going to have to go through the official process, all above board.
and they are all pretty clear that the mets had the formal offer on the table, so Boras could have just said fine and taken the deal, and waited for the ruling.
greggofboken
2/11/2013-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. They were serious. Alderson’s displayed a deliberate, methodical, patient approach in negotiations. It has often helped. This time that trait lost him his target.
Again, I wouldn’t have gone 4 years. But if Sandy was, he played it too conservatively.
Hazmet
2/11/2013-10:27pm at 10:27 pm (UTC -4)
They left “perception of playing favorites” in the rear view mirror years ago so why should they care now about perception. This team should not even be in the Wilpon’s control anymore given Madoff but they were floated with cash by MLB. In for a penny in for a pound. Call the offices downtown and get a ruling expedited, this is business and it’s a time sensitive issue. If it was a pure real estate deal Fred probably would have had people camping out on the steps to get it done.
What’s sorry to me is if they had half a brain they’d fold shop on SNY and if it’s at a loss take the loss on the books and then sell the TV rights to the Mets for an enormous deal like the Dodgers did. If they did that they’d have no fiscal woes but they’re too damn stupid to see the clarity in that path as a solution. Even if it was half the Dodgers deal I believe it would clear the books and give them the cash they need for talent.
kingman 26
2/11/2013-10:24pm at 10:24 pm (UTC -4)
While I am highly tempted to believe this, I think that the amount they committed to possibly spending on Marcum and Lyon makes it less likely.
But definitely still possible.
All I know is that the rotation in two years might be Wheeler, Harvey, Niese, Syndergaard, and Gee, and while we are far from that coming to fruition, it has the potential to be between very good and outstanding.
Marcum, Lyon, a healthy Ike, and adding d’Arnaud and Wheeler mid-season have me back on the optimism train.
Hazmet
2/11/2013-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
Marcum and Lyons deals were peanuts compared to dropping 48+ on one player. I wholly endorse the job Sandy’s done but he’ll always be operating with one hand tied behind his back between the cash situation and Jeff Wilpon in the mix playing Jr. GM. They couldn’t plug one outfield position with the lone pseudo cost effective FA option out there. I really dislike this ownership which is why I haven’t commented much for a long time since it’s all too easy to spew venom about this group. It was so obvious they were never going to sign Bourn, they just got out of the Jason Bay situation there was no way they were going to tie up that kind of cash on an OF’r north of 30. Given the lack of options they really should have but it was all just smoke imho.
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2013-10:58pm at 10:58 pm (UTC -4)
So one of the topics moving forward looks to be what can (Andrew) Brown do for us?
Stick
2/11/2013-11:31pm at 11:31 pm (UTC -4)
I have adopted him as my breakout of the year candidate. He beat out cowpie, thanks to more RH power, and an easy to spell name (yes, I am that shallow.)
anyway, he rakes lefties, and I expect him to do so for the mets in a platoon with Baxter or Kirk.
basically, he will roughly replicate Hairston from last year, with maybe a few less HRs but better defense. And probably do as much as Hairston would have for the Mets if they had made the “big investment” in him.
gategem
2/12/2013-12:55am at 12:55 am (UTC -4)
Have you ever seen Brown play?
gategem
2/12/2013-12:47am at 12:47 am (UTC -4)
With the paucity of quality 3rd baseman in baseball my original hope was to turn “embrève le magnifique” around for quality, high ceiling, outfield prospects. Flores could then be the heir apparent at 3rd base and thus a number of positions could have been filled by quality young players. When for reasons that have been discussed Ad infinitum the Mets resigned “embrève le magnifique” and then signed Marcum and Lyons I became hopeful they could sign Bourn to further upgrade this year’s team. With that by the board perhaps someone else will become available by trade. Even though Sandy has shown patience and prudence he has also shown the ability to move quickly when the opportunity presents itself. So there is basis for hope. But of course the elephant in the room is the Wilpons.
Trs86
2/12/2013-7:06am at 7:06 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, not stuck with four years of Bourn. Mlbn guys ripping the contract and the fact the mets were even it this year.
srt
2/12/2013-7:29am at 7:29 am (UTC -4)
Yes, they’ve been saying all along it made no sense for the Mets to sign Bourn at this time.
I was on the fence about it. If we could have got him for 3 years and keep the draft pick, I would have been O.K. with it. Looks like we were offering him 4 years. But b/c of that pick, it didn’t work out and Bourn took the Indians offer, even though NY was his first choice.
I don’t get the anger though of some of the Mets fan base. It’s not like Bourn was the player that was going to put us over the top or fill that last missing piece.
TRS86
2/12/2013-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
LOL, if Sandy had signed him to that deal 4/48 with a easily vesting option they would have been angry too. That’s the point of the MLBN guys, the Mets weren’t in position to compete this year and Bourn wouldn’t have changed that so you would just be pissing your money away. Not only that but the uptick in attendance wouldn’t have even paid for Bourn’s salary thus leaving you even more short money wise in the future.
FA put you over the top, not bring you to the top.
srt
2/12/2013-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
‘FA put you over the top, not bring you to the top.’
Unless you’re the Blue Jays. They looked at that AL east and decided now is the time to go all in. Traded multiple top prospects for multiple good players, plus a couple of FAs.
No way are we in that kind of position. Jays have been hoarding prospects for a few years now. We’re lucky we have 3 in the top 100, and all 3 came over in trades over the past 2 years.
TRS86
2/12/2013-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
They still didn’t do it through FA.
gategem
2/12/2013-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
“They still didn’t do it through FA.”
The method they used may have been worse than FA. They acquired large salaries and surrendered blue chip prospects. Due to the vagaries of baseball draft choices the probability of acquiring a certifiable blue chip prospect of the type they surrendered is not all that large. So if someone like RA were a free agent the Blue Jays could have possibly signed him without giving up a King’s Ransom in prospects as they did to the Mets and the draft choice they lost would most likely not impact them as much.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-8:42am at 8:42 am (UTC -4)
With today’s accelerated salaries 4/48 is a bargain for that guy. The 4/60 or higher that people were talking about was too much but 12 a year is very reasonable and if he is shitty for the last season then 12m is way easier to manage.
So as you sit there and say good, they weren’t ready to compete anyway we now look to a FA class of 2014 that is downright awful.
Sandy really screwed up on this one. When you have the biggest pit of a outfield and desperately need defense and speed 12m on a proven factor is worth way more than a gamble for the 11th pick that won’t be realized until 4-5 years from now.
TX
2/12/2013-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
I’m still not pinning this one totally on Sandy (though he is not without some of the blame) but you are spot on for the cost being relatively cheap for a player of Bourn’s ilk.
TRS86
2/12/2013-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
As usual this off-season, we disagree. Bourn would be like putting icing on a cake that isn’t even ready to go in the oven yet.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
I rarely am one to pin stuff directly on Sandy and usually try to think about the big picture on these move, but for me this is all on him. He played the waiting game to get the cost down and waited too long. He also valued that draft pick way too much.
I get valuing the draft pick but Bourn just fit way too many holes, that it was worth letting it go. We don’t have a lead off hitter, defense, speed, or a MLB capable outfielder. At 12m a year he needed to get it done and quick, if he pulled the trigger two weeks ago it probably would of been done it just got too late. Instead Boras got antsy went out to other teams and said if you can match this he will sign because we can’t wait any longer.
The waiting game worked great with his trades but it failed him here. Now we got ‘Wynken, Blynken and Nod”.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
But to you, the cake is ready to go in the oven next year, right? So next year, do you want to address 3 holes in the outfield or 2? Your logic is flawed and you are failing to look at the big picture impact.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Nope it’s just I don’t think out of all those OF we have competing for spots this year we will need 3 OF next year. Could be wrong but so be it.
Stick
2/12/2013-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
It actually sounds like Boras was the one that dragged it out too late to get the pick issue resolved. The Mets had their offer on the table for some period of time, so if Bourn had wanted it, they could have said yes and gone right to the league to resolve the pick.
so since Sandy was not bidding against himself, can we really say for sure that Sandy waited too long, or did the player push it to get his 5th year (that it seems he did).
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Good point, we have no idea how long Sandy’s offer was on the table. Obviously according to the MLB they needed an accepted offer before they could appeal so it is more on Boras (if Bourn wanted to be in NY) than it is on Sandy.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-8:38am at 8:38 am (UTC -4)
KLAW came up with a catchy name for our amazin outfield:
The losers here are the New York Mets and possibly the Kansas City Royals. The Mets supposedly wanted Bourn but refused to give up their first-round pick — the 11th overall selection — which was left unprotected when both sides fell asleep during that portion of the last CBA negotiations. They’re now left with an outfield, from left field to right, of Wynken, Blynken and Nod, which may be among the worst in modern major league history, even considering Nod’s strong throwing arm and Blynken’s tremendous batting eye.
srt
2/12/2013-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I saw that late last night.
Everyone’s a comedian.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-8:44am at 8:44 am (UTC -4)
I love him he can be such a a-hole. It always reads better when he is not focused on the Mets but it’s hard to avoid busting on them right now.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-8:45am at 8:45 am (UTC -4)
This is your FA outfield class of 2014. Gomez is in there so at least TRS is not worried SMH:
Left fielders
Jason Bay (35)
Endy Chavez (36)
Mark DeRosa (39)
Matt Diaz (36)
Chone Figgins (36)
Ben Francisco (32)
Bill Hall (34)
Raul Ibanez (42)
Reed Johnson (37) – $1.6MM club option with a $150K buyout
Austin Kearns (34)
Jason Kubel (32) – $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Nate McLouth (32)
Mike Morse (32)
David Murphy (32)
Xavier Nady (35)
Laynce Nix (33)
Ryan Raburn (33)
Juan Rivera (35)
Delmon Young (28)
Center fielders
Alfredo Amezaga (36)
Rick Ankiel (34)
Coco Crisp (34) – $7.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Rajai Davis (33)
Jacoby Ellsbury (30)
Carlos Gomez (28)
Curtis Granderson (33)
Franklin Gutierrez (31) – $7.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Tony Gwynn Jr. (31)
Nyjer Morgan (33)
Andres Torres (36)
Chris Young (30) – $11MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Right fielders
Jeff Baker (33)
Carlos Beltran (37)
Endy Chavez (36)
Shin-Soo Choo (31)
Nelson Cruz (33)
David DeJesus (34) – $6.5MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Mark DeRosa (39)
Matt Diaz (36)
Jeff Francoeur (30)
Corey Hart (32)
Xavier Nady (35)
Nyjer Morgan (33)
Hunter Pence (31)
Juan Rivera (35)
Ryan Sweeney (29)
TX
2/12/2013-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
It ain’t pretty, that’s for sure. Elks bury scares me because he’ll command the biggest salary and has the biggest potential to bust. Pence doesn’t thrill me. Gomez would be nice, but he is no game changer. Choo? Guesuentite. After that, not much. Might have to actually part with some prospects to get a OF of note.
TRS86
2/12/2013-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
Wait, is Bourn a game changer?
TX
2/12/2013-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
More so than Gomez is. Anyway, the point is now the team is theoretically looking for 3 OF spots again for the 2014 season. I hope that Sandy is capable of doing trades to get bigger names, and not just turning big names into prospects. I still trust the plan, but don’t like the particular outcome of Bourn signing elsewhere.
And don’t get me wrong, of the whole bunch, I think Gomez gives you the most bang for your buck, I just think he’s a lesser player than Bourn. Would have been nice to have both them in the OF.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
Why do you say that they 100% will be looking for 3 spots? Again, out of Duda, Kirk, DD, Cowgill, Brown, V-spin… there is a decent chance you will not be looking for 3 guys.
As for Gomez being a lesser player than Bourn? Again to each his own.
TX
2/12/2013-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Look at that group you just mentioned. The odds are greater that they flame out than that they will stick. And if they do, it is because there are no better options available. I hope they prove me wrong. I hope Duda can be something of worth. I hope MDD or Kapt K can not strike out once every 3 to 4 ABs. I hope Cowgill and Brown could show they have s
TX
2/12/2013-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Some worth at all. My point is there is a lot of faith and hope in waiting on those guys to fill a spot on a major league roster, let alone a starting spot.
Sorry, iPhone stupidity dragged this to 2 posts.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
You are right there is a lot of hope and waiting on those guys but that’s what rebuilding is. IF I was completely sure Kirk and Duda stink then it would be a different story but I am not.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Exactly! So going into next season we can have Bourn and if you wanted to use prospects for a trade you can add to what is there. Instead they will have three holes to fill and there isn’t enough prospects to handle to of those spots and we shouldn’t want them to have to trade the farm.
If it’s about building the farm and putting a competitive team on the field the last thing you want to do especially of you are a NY team is put the team in a position where the only thing you can do to upgrade is trade the prospects.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
You have no idea how many spots you will have to fill next year. You speak as if the cast they have has no potential at all and you must find and bring in proven veterans for each spot on a rebuilding team. I for one only considered the Mets having one OF hole this year. RF. I wanted to see what Duda, Kirk and even DD, Cowgill and Brown have.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
How much longer so you need to see Duda to see he is a dud? If Cowgil has so much of this potential why on earth would Oakland throw him away. Wake up man, if Bean doesn’t see the potential, the probably of him at this point stepping up and being a solution is nil.
Every analyst is stating that the outfield is the worst in the majors and even alluding to being listed historically bad. Sandy Alderson has ragged on it numerous times and has also stated that what they have is not a solution.
I get being optimistic and believin! but this is a black hole.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
Again, you choose your path I will choose mine. I think I need to see at least until the ASB on Duda and Kirk which should also give me time to evaluate Brown and Cowgill. I also expect to see DD in some form or fashion by the ASB as well.
What I think is hilarious is that if someone chooses to see things a different way it means they need to wake up or being overly optimistic or that no matter what the answer is as you see it. I am perfectly fine with the OF as is considering the alternative of signing Bourn for what amounts to be 5 years. I wanted BJ Upton, we didn’t get him and now we move on. Bitching and whining won’t change the fact.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
But there is what I don’t get. If we are “rebuilding” then why did you want to sign BJ? That goes against rebuilding and he cost a hell of a lot more than Bourn with a crappier attitude.
If the plan is 2014 before we do anything then you don’t cater to BJ what-so-ever. Why to you would BJ be a better fit for the team then Bourn? How does BJ allign with the plan but not Bourn, I am confused.
And don’t plan on DD what so ever. Have you noticed that they are not thumping their chest anymore about him? Last year it was watch DD, they watched him and they do not like what they see. That guy was sooo over-matched in AAA.
Stick
2/12/2013-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
real, just part of the user agreement you have to sign when you are absorbed into the core.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Why do I think that Upton was a better fit? Seriously? Why don’t you ask MLB GM’s who was better?
Bourn was 28 years old, hits RH and actually has some pop in his bat. I would take the 28 HR and 31 SB anytime.
Tejada, Murphy, Wright, Davis, Upton, Duda, Buck/TDA, Cowgill/Brown/Kirk would have looked better than anything that Bourn could have provided.
srt
2/12/2013-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
LOL, stick.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Stick, I may be mad, and I usually may be drunk but please, please do not associate me we them. I understand that my recent tirades more closely compare to some of the themes that they dictate, but I am very far from removed from that crowd.
As you may have noticed I am here and there and every where way less this offseason and that will continue until things shape up. Today is a big news day so I am venting but I have no desire to vent about this screwed up team day after day and be another negative voice.
This year is the first year in 10 years that I am not getting tv/web access to all the games. I just refuse to do it this year. Instead I am going to smoke meat with my new smoker, drink a lot of good beer and kayak. I just mentally can’t get myself pissed ff every day, it’s just not healthy.
Stick
2/12/2013-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
you meant upton was 28, not bourn.
I agree that BJ has a more intriguing skill set, but will say that Bourn is a whole lot better bet to be solid and consistent.
Stick
2/12/2013-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
sorry salty, just busting your chops. it’s what I do.
and the core is more of a conscription service. You don’t have to join, they adopt you.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I have heard so much Bourn it’s a wonder I don’t call my daughter that.
Yes Upton was a MUCH better fit. Either of them.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
OK so it’s better to spend a lot more money and go against the 2014 year of the plan on the guy you like that has less of a fit on this club both financially and physically?
Sorry I just don’t get it. I don’t really care what MLB GM’s feel on who is better. From a statistical perspective, BJ is better. From a financial perspective in relation to this team he is not. From a club-house perspective he is not. From a defensive perspective he is not.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
I wonder Salty with you not getting the TV package if they will cut my price in half? I for one am looking forward to baseball. Damn do I miss it in the off-season. Because I coach basketball it really becomes the only TV sports game that I actually sit down and watch a ton of.
srt
2/12/2013-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Understandable, Salty.
It’s not like you’re saying this FO is deliberately trying to tank this season, so they have a higher draft pick – which I’ve actually seen mentioned by more than one Met fan.
Ludicrous.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
I guess I view BJ as a potential long-term solution to something we don’t have any of. RH OF with pop who have good speed and defense. To me Bourn was missing two key features that even if we signed him we were automatically destined to need these two things the following year. We needed a RH power hitter more than a LH CF, IMO. I think between the candidates we have we can find a replacement level CF but will have a much harder time finding the RH power hitter.
srt
2/12/2013-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
I’m really hoping we’ll be exploring a good OF via a trade, and not just looking at the FA class next off season.
TRS86
2/12/2013-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
I will take any of Pence, Gomez and Hart. Also, not to mention we can make those trade thingies too.
Again, you are asking me to be upset and bitch and whine because they didn’t sign Bourn to a 4/48 deal that is really a 5/60 deal AND lose a draft pick doing it all just to make the pain of watching the Mets OF a little less? I just can’t do it. To each his own.
srt
2/12/2013-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I see many fans are talking about a trade for Pence.
I’m not really all that high on him.
I wouldn’t mind Gomez or Hart, depending on the deal.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
The problem with Pence is he is going to command 15m a year easily. He has a little more power which the Mets could really use but he comes off streaky to me. His defense is better than what we have, but I just never trusted this guy.
IDK if it was his time in Phili, but he should of hit like gang busters there. The year he was traded he put up solid numbers but just fizzled out. He seems like a guy that needs to be in a team with a lot of pieces to do well.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
I am just not sure he commands that 15M a year or not. It really depends on the season. He surely is more of what we need in a RH with some pop but he didn’t have a very good season last year. Especially in SF. We shall see.
srt
2/12/2013-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know if I agree his defense is better than what we have – especially in that big RF at Citi.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
The problem TRS is the salaries are out of control and will be for the next couple years. With all this TV money the teams are getting it’s making them drunk so they keep trying to “make it rain”. Pence is going to command way more than he should and that is the new reality right now. That is why Bourn is such a bargain and why they needed to do it. If it is about 2014 Bourn would of made that reality a much easier pill to swallow.
TRS86
2/12/2013-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
So this makes no sense. The salaries are out of whack and OF are going to command more so Bourn is a bargain. Why exactly didn’t he also get the 4/60 or 5/75 he was seeking if salaries are so out of whack? Could it be that he was overrated as hell?
Stick
2/12/2013-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
I saw enough Phils highlights on the evening news to know that Pence was a brutal RF. no clue what happened to his bat, but the common perception down here was that it had to do with swinging at everything and anything.
franikly, if you are getting into bed with him, might as well try for a cheap reunion with Frenchy.
and yes, I hate myself for even thinking that!
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
He wasn’t overrated that’s why he got what he did. Dude look at the money that is getting thrown around, every player is commanding more. Bourn got squeezed out because Boras was being Boras, the draft pick issue and the fact that brother’s Upton and Swisher were out there along with the other trades that occurred. Bourn became the odd man out.
So next Year the FA outfielder market will be worse, our FARM still wont have anyone capable to promote, so the team is in a tougher position to upgrade this area.
PAGAN GOT 10M!!!!!! That is all you need to know about inflated salaries.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
You are right stick. At the cost Frenchy is a way better value then Pence. Pence is going to be paid way too much and much of that will be due to no other options in FA next year.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Agree to disagree. I think the fact that teams weren’t willing to go 4 years or more on Bourn and give up a pick shows how overrated he was.
srt
2/12/2013-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
On that note…just got a call from my Dad. He does not now nor ever will, use a PC. So he calls me daily for the updates.
Says…’I was just reading the paper and this Bourn kid’s statistics…he’s no prize. What’s all the hype about losing out on him’? LOL….
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
“t’s believed that three of the final four teams in on Bourn had top ten draft picks that would have been protected, Heyman reports.”
And the fourth being the Mets?
So absolutely NO team was willing to sacrifice their first round pick AND pay Bourn 4/48/ —5/60.
Stick
2/12/2013-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I see both sides, but I was never all that excited about Bourn. hard to articulate exactly why, but I just did not feel it was going to work out, taking into account all the factors. And a lot of the panic seemed to be related not to him being great, but the other guys being bad (qualifying as an improvement is pretty easy when the bar is low!).
So, worried about next year? It will be resolved, even without Bourn. high level plan, sign Gomez (or Pence, if CF is filled), trade for 1 guy, and use some combination of the guys in the OF now, more low-budget fillers, or someone coming out of the minors for the 3rd spot.
the trade could happen in ST, at the deadline, or next off-season. and could be any one of dozens of guys.
Internal, you got brown/cowpie/kirk/dekker/duda/lagares at least to sort through.
so, the 2014 OF could be a new LF from a trade, a platoon out of those guys in RF and Gomez in CF. Or pence in RF, platoon in CF, trade in LF.
however it works out, I still don’t think they will need to fill 3 starting spots, and it won’t be that hard to fill 2, even without Bourn.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Yup, I expect Gomez to be traded during the season this year.
Stick
2/12/2013-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
at least he is a Boras client, so not much chance he signs an extension if he is traded!
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Very true. Again, I think the Brewers will be out of it and Hart and Gomez will both be traded. Maybe we get both.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
My point always remains that the Mets largest need wasn’t a leadoff hitter or a CF but a RH power bat. That was going to be a hole regardless of Bourn so my thoughts with or without Bourn remain the same.
Stick
2/12/2013-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
my new focus for the RH bat, is calling up TDA and Flores (for 2B) mid-season. That would go a long way toward filling in some RH power in the lineup, and make the OF much less of a handedness issue.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
No doubt, if Murphy could become either a utility man or traded and Flores could provide at least the same defense as Murphy I think the issue could be lessened. You still can’t start 3 LH OF IMO.
gategem
2/12/2013-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
“Because I coach basketball it really becomes the only TV sports game that I actually sit down and watch a ton of.”
I would be most interested to see your analysis of college and professional basketball. Is there a site that you frequent where you present your insight to the sport?