According to Jon Heyman the Indians will now look to trade Drew Stubbs whom they acquired this off-season in a trade from the Reds. Hat tip to Metsblog for the link.
Stubbs, 28 years old, was absolutely awful last year posting a slash line of:
| .213 | .277 | .333 | .610 |
He did manage to back that up with 14 HR and 30 SB. He did manage a 1.3 WAR which is actually quite an accomplishment considering his slash. Obviously that was due to his 6.2 base-running and 6.8 fielding ratings. Fangraphs has his value last year still at 6M again due to his defense and base-running. Stubbs also, like Bourn, strikes out a ton and doesn’t do too much in the area of OBP either. Last year being an outlier but he still has not shown the ability to get even into the .330′s.
The question with Stubbs is was his oblique injury responsible for the poor season? The previous season Drew managed a 2.6 WAR and in 2010 a 4.0.
So what’s good about Stubbs after reading all of that? There’s a few things.
1) He’s cheap. Stubbs is signed for 2013 at 2.8M.
2) He’s under team control through 2015.
3) He’s RH. I can’t play this up enough. The Mets are desperate for a RH OF. Stubbs for his career has a RH vs LH split of:
| .276 | .344 | .476 | .821 |
That’s certainly a usable stat. Of course what is nice about guys like Stubbs is even though they have large splits they still play good defense and because of their speed they are still a threat even against the weaker side.
4) He’s a great defender. Se above.
Before those who are still upset over Bourn get their undies in a wad, I am NOT saying that Stubbs is anywhere near the quality of Bourn. He isn’t. Would the 2013 Mets have been better with Bourn instead of Stubbs? Of course. However, I think the cost of Stubbs, his age, his under control contract, his defense, speed and pop, as well as of course my patented word handedness make him a very logical fit for this season.
161 comments
Saltygary
2/12/2013-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Mmmm scraps. Buddy Alderson loves scraps.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Boy you added a lot to this conversation. You need a new name for on here. The Core is obviously taken. Perhaps we could call you SaltyBalls? Oh no I would have to pay Bay for that one. Uh… how about the Bore instead of the Core?
Stick
2/12/2013-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
play nice. everyone gets to have an opinion without being picked on for it.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
Sure they do but that was just unnecessary.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Looks like you are the salty one, how about we not make it personal I am not.
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Actually if I come up with a post, something you are always busting me for not doing, and the first comment is some type of Core punch line? Of course it’s personal.
Look I am sorry you are so pissed about the Mets and their chances for now and the future. But if the Mets and discussing the Mets does not bring you any pleasure at all it’s time for a break.
TX
2/12/2013-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I thought the table scraps to Sandy’s dog analogy was a good one. Made me chuckle.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Then give the same grief to Prismo for “Oh god do we really have to go through this sh*t again? F*** me twice” which was the second comment or even SRT with the very articulate “I’m going with a pass on Stubbs.”.
The second line in your piece was “Stubbs, 28 years old, was absolutely awful last year”.
I was merely making a comment to state that this is mostly what Sandy has been getting.
So don’t take it personally dude. Just because you and I are not in agreement of the direction of the team doesn’t mean you need to get your panties in a bunch. You keep stating I am whining and bitching, to me it looks like you are doing the same except that my ire is pointed at the team and yours is now I guess at me.
Don’t take it out on me. If you don’t want to be challenged don’t fight the fringe on MMO every day and don’t challenge me then. And if you can’t handle it then you know how to use the block button.
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Eh you can think as you wish but for me, those types of lines to open up a story are more for the Core and not what I expect out of TRDM. Sorry and any other comments if I feel the need I will email them to you instead of airing them out here.
greggofboken
2/12/2013-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
I am a relative newcomer here. The reason I comment (and viewed for a while before I commented) is that there’s largely civil behavior in the midst of disagreement. And the conversation is usually very intelligent (as well as being funny on occasion).
I visit and contribute to another site that’s much more rough and tumble, but that fills my appetite for that. The conversations on Metsmerized Online, Metsblog, the ESPN site seem to be nothing short of a schoolyard.
That’s never been the case here. And it’s refreshing.
I hope in the heat of impassioned discussion, you don’t lose what’s most valuable here.
Just my two cents…..
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
eh…LOL. Look it’s your issue with me and not the comment. If Prismo’s comment was first you would not have reacted the same way adn you didn’t react the same way below and the comment was WAY more inappropriate than mine. He’s just not ruffling your feathers. Don’t bother emailing me, you know how to delete comments and you know how to block me. If I am not appropriate in your view for this community that I have been a a part of for 3-4 years, then you know what to do. It’s your site dude.
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks Gregg, I think all of us are kinda on the edge today. I hate Tuesdays anyway.
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
Not what I said. I don’t think I have ever banned anyone since we started this thing so why would I do it to you over some petty disagreement. If you don’t see a difference in your’s and Prismo’s comments then we will agree to disagree again.
Keep in mind this was you a few days ago:
“SaltyGary February 5, 2013 at 9:41 am
Jason Bourne would be a amazing addition. God forbid he is hit by a pitch, he would just go gang busters.
Michael Bourn, might be a desperate move IMO. If the team doesn’t want Reyes because his game is based around speed, then why sign Bourn? To me it wreaks of a desperate team overreaching on their austerity and trying to change the narrative at the last moment.”
So what happened?
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Nice try. To avoid confusion for the people reading the first paragraph was a jab at the persons comment I replied to because of Bourn’s name being misspelled. Anyone using a apple device will be thankfull that he wasn’t signed, because auto-correct does not like his name.
As for your failed attempt to try and make me look hypocritical. The reason I stated that position (to which I still believe) is why was the team in the market for Bourn in the first place? It goes against “The Plan”. What has changed that a couple weeks before the season starts they are now suddenly in the market for a free agent? Isn’t that weird to you? Did they see how few season tickets were sold, and decided that we need to change the narrative.
That was my point guy not whether Bourn was a fit. Got any more gasoline to throw on the fire or are you butt hurt enough for one day?
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Settle down Slappy. I am asking a question. Just a week ago you said that signing Bourn would just be appeasing the masses and a desperate move. My question is then why today would you be upset they didn’t sign him?
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
If you want me to settle down, why don’t you stop with the name calling. You brought all this BS on yourself.
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
Yes sir, I am quite bored with this anyway. Any chance you want to answer the question?
Prismo
2/12/2013-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
If David is the Golden Boy of the Mets, then I’m the Golden Boy of RDM! No one can touch me!
Just kidding.
I do take back my comment though. It was just a brief moment of frustration.
TX
2/12/2013-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
OK Betsy.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
I already answered it above but I should remember you can’t just STFU and always need to have the last comment, even though you are suddenly bored. Because I am a bore right? You can’t just stop poking the bear can you.
If you read the comment you can see I made a comment on the motives of the front office not whether Bourn is a fit. That’s is a difference right?
My attitude has never changed on this subject. I was always on the fence with the signing. Go find any of my comments and you will see a consistent message. I am leery with players based on their speed, I feel there is a quicker regression. So if you are saying 4/60 then it is too much coupled with the draft pick. But due to the glaring holes that the Mets have, Bourn would fit many needs just your your bull can fill my bucket. Not that we know the price came down by 12M over 4 years it’s way more reasonable. Coupled with the fact that we know the agreement was in place but Sandy just dragged his feet because of a draft pick status.
Any other questions or am I not clear enough.
Stickguy
2/12/2013-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
i’m like the dog in Up (or whatever that movie was called).
always another shiny object to distract me.
Squirrel! Squirrel!
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Keep the language out. No need for that.
Again, I still don’t feel that answers the question but so be it. Time to move on.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
If it’s time to move on then STFU and don’t post another comment. What question do you feel I have not answered?
kingman 26
2/12/2013-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, this is disappointing to read…
But seriously Gary, the signings of Marcum and Lyon largely disprove what you and I had been thinking most of the offsesason. They are most definitely not scraps, especially Marcum and his possible 8M this year.
As for Bourn? Yes, it is definitely possible that the Mets’ “interest” was entirely bogus and a dog-and-pony parlor game to appease/fool a significant segment of the fan base.
However, while I would have liked him at maybe 3/42 with a club option for a 4th year, what CLE gave him is too much, especially when considering the 11th pick…research shows that in about the last 20 years, 11th–13th picks have included Andrew McCutchen, Jered Weaver, Manny Ramirez, Paul Konerko, Nomar Garciaparra, Matt Morris, Joe Saunders, and a bunch of other good to very good players.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
Oh like you never gotten into it with anyone her. Cough ceetar cough.
Look I was very calm with the hole thing and he kept poking and started calling me names. And the kicker is I’m not even big on Bourn I just think Sandy screwed up on his approach with how he handled it. I rarely say anything negative specifically against Sandy God forbid I did once.
And for disproving the scraps theory. Marcum is a risk signing. As I’ve stated before it’s a good move and will be a great move if he is healthy and productive and they resign or trade him. Lyons I am not enamored with at all. But these two signings do nothing to disprove anything.
kingman 26
2/12/2013-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
Ceetar’s an obnoxious ignoramus.
While I have definitely had my dustups with TRS, he’s not in the Ceetarian class, and he is ultra-patient and open-minded.
I like you both, and I can relate to the frustration for sure.
I guess for me, at this time of year, it is much more difficult to be negative than it is in Nov and Dec…I really am honestly looking forward to the first televised spring game when I can see Wheeler and d’Arnaud play.
I also think that Sandy might not have screwed up his Bourn approach—I think the whole think may very well have been a bunch of insincere nonsense…I think they may never have had any intention of signing him any more than they did Reyes or Dickey.
But please stick around…
darknova306
2/12/2013-6:28pm at 6:28 pm (UTC -4)
Is there something in the air today? This thread has seemed a lot more heated than usual for this place.
Kong, I would disagree on your assessment of Ceetar. He brings up a lot of good facts and numbers, he just views them all through a much more optimistic/hopeful lens than most of us do. I wholeheartedly disagree that any of this makes him an ignoramus. With all due respect, ad hominem attacks like that really belong at MMO, where logical fallacies abound.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-6:32pm at 6:32 pm (UTC -4)
We need some German engineering.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-6:40pm at 6:40 pm (UTC -4)
Not helping…
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-6:41pm at 6:41 pm (UTC -4)
Tell that to TRS Nova, he’s the one that wanted to go MMO-Style.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-6:47pm at 6:47 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t fret me brutha sticky bun coming soon.
gategem
2/12/2013-7:00pm at 7:00 pm (UTC -4)
Kong your mood and frame of reference is temporarily buoyed by your pending trip to the west coast. Have a great and lecherous time before the area goes bankrupt.
And SG and TRS choose the time and place for a dual and if Kong is willing he and I will be seconds.
kingman 26
2/12/2013-7:01pm at 7:01 pm (UTC -4)
Dark–You are 100% right and I apologize.
Thank you for setting me straight.
gategem
2/12/2013-7:06pm at 7:06 pm (UTC -4)
“Is there something in the air today?”
Nova I did not realize you were a Phil Collins – Genesis fan.
darknova306
2/12/2013-7:18pm at 7:18 pm (UTC -4)
No worries, Kong. Cheers!
Prismo
2/12/2013-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Oh god do we really have to go through this sh*t again? F*** me twice and call me Betsy I’m ready for the gosh dang season to start.
Stick
2/12/2013-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
oh, I am more than ready for it to start. But, like I have said, they still need to be in the market to trade for an OF anythime between now and next off season, so if someone useful pops up (getting roster squeezed now) then yeah, they should be looking.
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
That’s what this time of year brings Prismo. Guys getting released by teams, running out of room and getting traded. For now that’s about all there is to talk about.
Prismo
2/12/2013-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
I know and you’re right. The Mets *should* still be doing their due diligence with regard to finding talent.
Stick
2/12/2013-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
those are some pretty dismal #s there. And not all that much of a reason to think he will do all that much better, unless you really believe in the age 28 glory year, and want to blame 2012 on injury.
I assume he plays CF though?
if so, the question is, what are you willing to give up for him. Mchugh? Fulmer? Bueller?
TRS86
2/12/2013-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Good question, I don’t know how much he would cost.
As for the glory year at age 28? I will gladly take somewhere between his 2010 and 2011 years. From reading a lot of stuff on him and my assistant coach being a big Reds fan, they really do believe the oblique injury was behind the large dip.
Stick
2/12/2013-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
everytime you mention him though it makes me hungry, since I think of BBQ sauce. though it is easy to spell his name. that is a bonus.
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I honestly don’t even know if I have ever had Stubb’s BBQ sauce.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Stubbs pork marinade is really good. The nive thing is it’s all natural without trying to advertise that fact. All those sauces that have the HF Corn Syrup immediately loose their flavor when they get heated, and Stubbs hold up great.
srt
2/12/2013-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
I’m going with a pass on Stubbs.
TX
2/12/2013-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
So, Stubbs is an older, RH vs. of MDD? Uff da.
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, but at least with some MLB success.
TX
2/12/2013-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
ok, stubbs for MDD.
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
I think they will want pitching. How about Mejia? Too much most likely and Heffer and Mchugh too little. Bound to be a fit there though considering they need warm body starters and we need warm body OF>
TX
2/12/2013-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Well, if you do Duda and Mejia, maybe you can get back Stubbs and something else? I think they have a need for a 1B too, though Carlos Santana (the catcher, not the guitarist) plays there occasionally.
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Nah they are actually pretty set offensively now with all the scubish they have brought in with Reynolds and I think Giambi now too.
Stick
2/12/2013-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
he might not be the best fit guy, but absolutley what the FO should be doing through ST, looking for a “real” OF that could be getting roster squeezed.
and he might be the best case for MDD, but at least he is a RHB.
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Yeah right now I am not sure you can predict MDD to be as good as Stubbs without seeing him first.
TX
2/12/2013-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Well, hopefully we see someone blow out an arm and have a need for a young starter…
Calling Trumbo, Crisp, Fowler…
TRS86
2/12/2013-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Fowler just signed a 2 year extension, I guess that makes him more attractive but I don’t see him being traded. Crisp, I still like more than Bourn anyway and you guys know I love some Trumbo so lets hope that Johan does great and the Angels need a starter here in a few months.
srt
2/12/2013-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously guys…I wouldn’t do any trades right now. Stand pat with what we’ve got and see what shakes out during ST and the first half.
It’s not likely we’re making some block buster deal for a good starting OF this late. Any other kind of trade we’ve been discussing – Stubbs, Fowler, etc. – will probably only be a difference of a couple of wins.
At this point, I think we should just start the season with what we’ve got. It’s time to find out just what we have or don’t have in Duda, Kirk and Spin and DenDekker and Brown and Cowgill. (Did I forget anyone? I think we know what to expect with Baxter.)
Stick
2/12/2013-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
can I agree and disagree?
Yes, need to find out what we have in those guys (and will anyway), but they should also be keeping an ear to the ground, and if someone better (projectible to be part of the future, or just flat out more proven) then they should be looking to grab them if the price is right.
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t have a problem though bringing in a guy like Stubbs into the mix because he’s RH and isn’t a guy that you can’t bench if he under-performs.
srt
2/12/2013-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
OT:
AnthonyDiComo: Frank Francisco is shut down right now. Still dealing with elbow inflammation. Doesn’t know when he’ll start throwing. #Mets
Just have to LOL.
TX
2/12/2013-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Bring in the Wilsonator!
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I am fine with that but question is, is he any better of an option?
Stickguy
2/12/2013-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
I like the idea anyway, to build additional depth. Both to help immediately (or in this case, when he is ready!), to give the young arms a chance to break in, and more trade chips for the deadline.
So what the hell, Wilsonate me!
darknova306
2/12/2013-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
The Mets haven’t truly started baseball activities again until someone is hurt. It begins!
TX
2/12/2013-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
My Citra blend came out wonderful. Have a Citra/Centennial ready for bottling soon, an all falconer’s that i did this weekend and have plans for a cascade/Australian Topaz and a Simcoe/Citra in the near future.
darknova306
2/12/2013-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, you’re on a roll! You definitely sound like you fit in up there, hops hops hops!
Try Mosaic hops one of these days. Someone at the Ithaca homebrew club made an all Mosaic IPA, and it appears the hop has a smooth bitterness, moderate grapefruit character, and an assertive sweet blueberry/blackberry character. Would be a great combo with all sorts of the big American hops.
TX
2/12/2013-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah dude, it’s so nice here. As a hop head, there is no better place. I’ve been tasting an Omegang every now and again, but I always run home to mommy, err, IPAs.
Stickguy
2/12/2013-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
Nova, maybe things are turning around for the Mets. FFF being the one hurt could be a positive, right?
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
He could get Carrascoed.
Prismo
2/12/2013-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Hey if we had 12 mil for Bourn, maybe it’s time to spring for another reliever. Anyone still available?
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Closers
Jose Valverde (35)
Brian Wilson (31)
Right-handed relievers
Todd Coffey (32)
Jose Contreras (41)
Francisco Cordero (38)
Joey Devine (29)
Livan Hernandez (38)
Jason Isringhausen (40)
Bobby Jenks (32)
Kameron Loe (31)
Guillermo Mota (39)
Brad Penny (35)
Francisco Rodriguez (31)
Left-handed relievers
Rafael Perez (31)
J.C. Romero (37)
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
So question is how much do these guys want?
There are some interesting names. For one I want nothing to do with Krod. I would imagine that Valverde still will cost too much and Wilson is he even ready to pitch?
I also like Joey Devine. He is coming off of 2 TJ surgeries but in October said that he was finally throwing pain free. Of course they all say that but when healthy this guy was a great pitcher. He had an incredibly impressive season at age 24 in 2008. 40 innings and a .59 ERA and .832 WHIP. Worth a gamble to say the least.
Stickguy
2/12/2013-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
no clue about Devine. but if there is room, and he takes a MiL deal, sure, why not!
And I thought that the Marlins signed Valverde? Or am I confused again.
surprised though to see so many guys still looking for work on day 1 of P&Cs. But to answer what they are looking for, they all wanted a ML deal, and were willing to wait until now to finally take a MiL invite.
anyway, still think they should take a flyer on Wilson.
Prismo
2/12/2013-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Jenks was another name I thought of – former successful closer, not that old.
But then I saw he was involved in a DUI/hit and run last March. And….yeah…. if people think KRod hitting a relative (who deserved it) is bad, I can’t even imagine.
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
No interest in all with Denks he has had those issues since HS or college, can’t remember. He would make Krod look like a candidate for Pope.
Prismo
2/12/2013-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
Ideally, Wilson. But it sounds like he may prefer to wait until he’s healthy and sign a major league deal rather than sign a minor league deal now.
I think that’s silly because if he’s healthy the Mets are obviously going to bump him up and he’ll get the major league salary. But whateverrrrrr!
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I think the fact that no team has signed him yet shows he isn’t going to be ready anytime soon.
gategem
2/12/2013-9:51pm at 9:51 pm (UTC -4)
If Omar was still in charge he would sign Livan Hernandez.
TRS86
2/12/2013-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
I wonder if Parnell’s quotes on wanting to be the closer were because he already knew this?
Prismo
2/12/2013-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
I honestly am alright with the Mets just rolling with what they’ve got at this point.
We have enough potential outfielders for some real competition to set in this season. Hopefully a couple players float above the rest and we have a better outlook heading into 2014.
Stickguy
2/12/2013-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
sounds like the “they may suck, so make it up on volume” plan.
works for me.
Prismo
2/12/2013-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Haha yep, but I do like some of the *possibilities*
I like Kirk/Cowgill competing in center and I think Baxter/Brown in right could actually end up with a decent season as a whole. Duda in left…he’s going to be bad defensively, we know this…but if he can put together a better offensive season at least our outfield won’t be HORRID.
I think the odds dictate half or less of those players will make us proud by the end of the season, but they might be passable for one year, and maybe we’ll be more certain about how to fill in the gaps next offseason.
Stickguy
2/12/2013-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
they are also cheap, and on year to year deals at the Mets discretion. So, very easy to replace. Try them all, and if you end up weeding through 8 guys to find 1-2 keepers, wonderful.
Stickguy
2/12/2013-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
someone up above (probably salty) mentioned Bourn fitting with “the plan”. Made me think again, as to how many different versions of the plan people think there are (meaning if you took a poll, how many answers you would get!)
Because in my version of the plan (what I think it is), you could say he fits. DW too. Since I never thought it was gut to the studs, and start completely over with new prospects.
Job one (in a nod to MF) was just stopping the cash hemmorage to keep the Wilpons afloat. Seems to have accomplished that for the moment. So Jeffy has his legacy intact for now.
beyond that, IMO it always was to focus on down the line (starting in 2014), while trying to prop up where you can on limited cash the current team. But nothing that was going to detract from the “future”. so I would say more of an intense retool or remodel.
but, guys like DW and Bourn are young enough to be part of a LT horizon (3-4 years being plenty long), and accumulating ML quality talent to build around makes perfect sense, unless you want the future to start in 2016+!
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think my interpretation and your’s differ too much other than when you start adding those long-term pieces. As was said on MLBN for guys like Bourn if you are not ready to compete then you are just pissing your money away. IF we could have traded for Upton I would have been a lot more willing to get Bourn.
TX
2/12/2013-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
That’s what I thought was the plan too. I hope Obi-walderson can coax a nice return from some of the middling prospects we have to shore up the OF and soon (AKA by next year). Hey, maybe we can guarantee a protected pick for 2014 and not have to worry about dealing with the collective bargaining agreement at all!
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
I am actually very curious about Cowgill and Brown and I think one of them could actually turn into a solution instead of a stopgap.
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
What’s also interesting with Brown is that his power numbers in his limited sample have actually been better against RH. To me that shows that he potentially can be a full-time player with time.
srt
2/12/2013-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting…..TC’s first official ST press conference on SNY a half hour ago.
Some high points:
- Lyon and Parnell first 2 candidates for closer if FF is not ready to go. He and his elbow problem, not throwing yet.
- Lots of options for 2 lefty specialists
- Wheeler will be starting in AAA. Starting 5 rotation set.
- Harvey will have no innings limit
- Duda is the strongest dude in the league besides Stanton. If he just stays within himself and what got him to the big leagues, no reason he can’t hit 35 HRs. Duda is the starting LF going into the season.
- Lots of candidates for CF and RF platoon. Wants to see speed and defense in CF – more important right now than offense at the plate.
- Leadoff hitter: Ruben and his ability to work a count. Baxter was leadoff hitter when they were playing well last season. Both 2 candidates right now.
- Encouraged to see so many hitters in camp early.
- Some yahoo asked about Wright and the ‘C’ for captain. Terry said they haven’t discussed it. Wright knows this is his team.
- Not worried about making up the 20 games Dickey won but need to make up his innings. He’s the pitcher who got into the 7th consistently. Thinks Niese should be the one taking the step forward on that.
- TAD will be playing everyday, whether at AAA or MLs. Will not platoon with Buck when he’s called up.
- Talked about Johan and he feels great. First time in 3 years he wasn’t rehabbing something. Rest in off season did him good.
Some other points but that’s about all I can remember right now.
Prismo
2/12/2013-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Good stuff, thanks 4D. If CF is all about speed/defense you have to think Cowgill has a step up over Kirk (not that Kirk is bad).
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
THANKS 4D!
srt
2/12/2013-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
You’re welcome.
One other thing I just remembered when they were asking him questions about the OF…
Terry said they brought in a couple of veteran OFs (such as Byrd) for more or less insurance in case some of the ‘kids are not ready’.
Translation to me: as in some of the kids have an awful ST – they’ll just send them back down to start.
Someone asked him about Spin. Said he played mostly all OF in winter ball and showed a good bat and some patience at the plate. Will have a chance to compete for an OF spot as well.
TX
2/12/2013-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Did he address lame-duck-edness?
srt
2/12/2013-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, he did.
Said he’s got no problem with it. He’s got a job to do this year and that’s what he’s going to do. Said he loves what he’s doing. Having no contract past this season is not a worry for him.
Sounds like someone who knows he’s got a job in the organization no matter what.
Stick
2/12/2013-4:43pm at 4:43 pm (UTC -4)
i would not expect him to be. Frankly, I looked at Sandy and Terry as both ST “gap” guys. they both seemed to have semi-retirement jobs (well paid for pretty much low stress, take it easy work). And were effectively coerced (to a degree) to come in and help with the stabilization/transformation. But, IMO, neither one was expected to (or particularly planned to) stay beyond their contracts.
Sandy, I bet he goes back to the home office (if not replacing bud) and i could really see terry going back into an org development gig again. Hell, the guy was not young, but looks like he has aged 10 years in the last 3!
srt
2/12/2013-8:35pm at 8:35 pm (UTC -4)
Yup, my opinion about where Terry and Sandy wind up as well.
darknova306
2/12/2013-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for posting that. The Duda comment must be why my twitter feed erupted in a combo love-fest/hate-fest for Duda. Man, he’s terrible.
Stick
2/12/2013-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
good stuff for sure. sounds like MDD could get a shot (and I agree, stress D for a change!). And the Duda stuff was aimed at building his confidence most likely.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Dickey was at a new conference and he was asked about his feelings on the Mets and the current state of the outfield.
http://imgur.com/a/iC7T2
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t read that, it’s blocked here. Can you paste it? Pretty please?
Prismo
2/12/2013-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
It’s a couple images/memes. Nothing real.
TRS86
2/12/2013-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Oh well, never mind then. I was going to say why would I really give a damn what Dickey thinks about the Mets OF anyway.
kingman 26
2/12/2013-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
Stubbs sucks. A platoon guy who cannot hit well even in a hitter’s park.
We have plenty of them already.
Let’s focus on giving Valdy a shot and seeing what Wilma has in the OF.
And where’d you get the 4.0 WAR? Baseballreference has the 2.8 as a career high by far.
The Ks, the OBP (.277 last year??), the serious decline…this guy sux.
TRS86
2/12/2013-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
Again, I think many Reds fans were clamoring that his oblique caused the sudden abysmal drop in hitting. It wasn’t great before but certainly not .277 OBP and .610 OPS.
I use fangraphs for WAR.
2010 has him with a 4.0 WAR and a slash of
.255 .329 .444 .773 with 22 HR, 30 SB and great defense.
Again, the handedness of Stubbs is what has me intrigued. As for him being just a platoon player, it’s possible. I still think he’s an intriguing name that shouldn’t cost much in trade or cash.
Prismo
2/12/2013-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
Fangraphs and Baseball Reference calculate WAR different. http://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/war/differences-fwar-rwar/
Agree about Stubbs. Very unlikely to be better than our current options, and you can only have so many options before you run out of playing time.
Prismo
2/12/2013-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
“calculate WAR different”
DIFFERENTLY you moron.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
I think we both need a edit button, I really miss it.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
One of the major flaws of WAR. They are trying so hard to place a singular value on a player but there is no true way to do this. I think it’s interesting and a great thing to attempt but with it getting so much attention, there are so many people using it (and jesus christ I am not pointing any fingers to anyone here god forbid) but they don’t know what it really means. It’s becoming a tool to say “oh yea well this guys war is one point higher he is better”. I should be included no more than we spout other states and not weighted any more.
Also I think it makes more sense to represent oWAR as opposed to the all in one or using it for pitching. oWAR is way more stable then adding the defensive metric to come up with the all in one#.
greggofboken
2/12/2013-3:37pm at 3:37 pm (UTC -4)
It might be more stable, but w/o it’s calculating in defense it’s lacking, no? Better, in my view, to use WAR while acknowledging its imperfections — that it’s meant as a general guideline rather than a failsafe absolute.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-3:50pm at 3:50 pm (UTC -4)
That’s the problem, people are using it much more as a absolute. I personally like seeing the oWAR and dWAR separately.
TX
2/12/2013-4:03pm at 4:03 pm (UTC -4)
Is there such a thing as GWar?
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-4:10pm at 4:10 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baExq6xNhQ8
Prismo
2/12/2013-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
LOL I was about to make that joke Gary, dang you beat me to it. I actually saw GWAR once in college. I did not enjoy their music.
kingman 26
2/13/2013-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
HAHAHA! Saw GWAR also…pretty insane.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
Off topic (thank friggen God). Listening to some archives of Howard Stern and they have a fake “Dwight Gooden” on calling from rehab right after he got busted for coke again.
I’m in tears “Howard I just became a member of the NAACP”… “Never admit any crack problems”.
Dwight – I’m missing the crack of the bat, the snort of the crowd, the blow of the wind”.
Dwight “People keeping asking me how I can do cocaine and I keep saying how can I stare at Davey Johnson’s face all day”?
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
The funniest attempt I heard last night on WFAN as far as addressing the Mets outfield came from a caller that said and I quote “Why can’t the Mets go out and get Hairston?”
Yep, I guess he forgot Hairston just signed with the Cubs.
LoL made my night.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
Kong do you have a twitter account?
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
LoL, Here birdie birdie birdie…
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
It’s all your fault. You should of known better.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-4:21pm at 4:21 pm (UTC -4)
What is Blue & Orange on the inside and Blue & White on the outside? Hmm…
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
Just to be fair where I live Blue Jays are as abundant as rats are in the NYC subways. I had 10 of them attacking one of my feeders the other day.
Stick
2/12/2013-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
I hate birds like Gate hates dogs.
especially Canadian Geese. those damned things need to head back to Dickey land where they belong.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-4:48pm at 4:48 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of Canadian animals is Canadian Bacon any better than good old American Bacon?
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-4:50pm at 4:50 pm (UTC -4)
Little ones don’t bother me and we have awesome hawks and turkey vultures around here that are awesome to watch hunt every night.
I only did this because Jerz said he would unfriend me on twitter if I changed my ny plate to a toronto one.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
Quiet you!
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
Canadian bacon sucks, it’s like crappy ham. The movie was OK though.
darknova306
2/12/2013-6:04pm at 6:04 pm (UTC -4)
This whole thread is hilarious.
And American bacon is the greatest achievement of mankind. There are no counter-arguments.
Hazmet
2/12/2013-6:11pm at 6:11 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll give you a counter argument: Have you ever tried Candied bacon? mmmmm. Yes, thick slice American Bacon coated with Brown Sugar and cooked carefully under a broiler. It’s sick. Chalk that one up to *itchin Kitchen.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-6:19pm at 6:19 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not going to lie. You peaked my curiosity.
darknova306
2/12/2013-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, I have had Canadian bacon. While decent, it’s basically Josh Thole to American bacon’s D’Arnaud. No contest. A better counter-argument would be “beer”. Now THAT I would have a hard time arguing with.
Hazmet
2/12/2013-6:45pm at 6:45 pm (UTC -4)
Not Canadian Bacon, Candied Bacon. As in sugar coated Americal Bacon. It’s addictive.
Think I got his fat just sittin’ around? Well yeah, but that’s a different story.
darknova306
2/12/2013-6:54pm at 6:54 pm (UTC -4)
Oh derp. I should read more closely. Candied bacon sounds kinda gross. I’ll take standard bacon, thanks.
TX
2/12/2013-7:20pm at 7:20 pm (UTC -4)
Maple syrup bacon beer!
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-7:22pm at 7:22 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_sVVjWFKk
darknova306
2/12/2013-7:24pm at 7:24 pm (UTC -4)
Voodoo Doughnut! Yeah! That beers wins this whole argument. Kudos, sir.
kingman 26
2/13/2013-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
No Twitter account Gary, but feel free to email me any time sir.
wanny
2/12/2013-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
Heyman did not say the Indians will now look to deal Stubbs. He said Stubbs is their “most likely outfield trade bait.”
“hearing stubbs is the #indians most likely ouftield trade bait. the #mets need to line up there.”
TRS assumes that they have already decided to trade an outfielder and that they are planning make Stubbs that guy. Heyman is essentially saying that IF the Indians werw to trade an outfielder it would “most likelyu” be Stubbs.
I am not sure why TRS has made this jump, especially as many writers have reported that the Indians may play Stubbs in RF and Swisher at 1b.
Trs86
2/12/2013-6:15pm at 6:15 pm (UTC -4)
Unless I read the MLBTR links wrong that is what it implied. If I misconstrued sorry.
Trs86
2/12/2013-6:18pm at 6:18 pm (UTC -4)
Here is what MLBTR said this morning.
Drew Stubbs is “eminently available” and “very likely the odd man out” in the Cleveland outfield, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com writes.
wanny
2/12/2013-9:11pm at 9:11 pm (UTC -4)
You linked to Heyman’s tweet. Didn’t you read it yourself?
Shame on you for blaming MLBTR for your sloppiness or for being so lazy as to borrow their interpretation.
Trs86
2/12/2013-9:47pm at 9:47 pm (UTC -4)
Actually I couldn’t at the time but being MLBTR put it in quotation marks and they are a very reliable source I posted their quote.
Trs86
2/12/2013-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
After doing a little research, here is what the Heyman quote actually said.
There isn’t much to see there, so the Mets will now presumably try to pick up one of Cleveland’s scraps. Drew Stubbs is very likely the odd man out in Cleveland and eminently available. And guess what, he just might be the Mets’ best outfielder if they get him.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/21688116/indian-winter-in-big-surprise-cleveland-steals-bourn-from-mets
wanny
2/12/2013-10:23pm at 10:23 pm (UTC -4)
you linked to this quote, cerrone:
hearing stubbs is the #indians most likely ouftield trade bait. the #mets need to line up there.
wanny
2/12/2013-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
“After doing a little research…” which unfortunately occurred after already writing your post.
Trs86
2/12/2013-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
Yup, linked to Twitter feed instead of story. Thanks for the catch.
Stick
2/12/2013-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
The FO ended up being busier than I expected this year. and probably have 1-2 moves left in them. I still expect at least 1 more OF, and another RP is very possible too.
also, it looks like Lohse gets the coveted “last real FA to sign” award this year. Good job kyle! that qualifying offer must be looking pretty good right about now. Must suck to be a P that has no where to go after P&Cs report.
wanny
2/12/2013-4:44pm at 4:44 pm (UTC -4)
this situation is a less a commentary on Lohse and more of a commentary on this draft pick compensation system. Lohse would not have a problem getting a job if a team didn’t have to essentially trade a first round pick for him and also pay him a lot of money.
Stick
2/12/2013-6:22pm at 6:22 pm (UTC -4)
same reason Bourn was not signed a while ago by the Mets.
System is OK if you are a superstar, but a guy that was borderline to even get the Q offer, not so much.
My WAG, next year, fewer guys get the offer, and more take it!
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-7:16pm at 7:16 pm (UTC -4)
133 comments? I am expecting a “It be nice if we had a clean post” comment at any moment.
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-7:21pm at 7:21 pm (UTC -4)
“How do you get a high comment count? Unnecessarily Piss Gary off”. I demand proceeds from advertisement revenue.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-7:28pm at 7:28 pm (UTC -4)
“I demand proceeds from advertisement revenue.”
Ahhh Your going to have to talk to payroll about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91HQNAapgQ8&feature=youtu.be&t=3m4s
SaltyGary
2/12/2013-7:46pm at 7:46 pm (UTC -4)
So then you know what happens when you take my stapler. Glad we are on the same page.
srt
2/12/2013-8:41pm at 8:41 pm (UTC -4)
LOL – much of this thread was hilarious.
gategem
2/12/2013-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
It’s just children being children.
TX
2/12/2013-7:22pm at 7:22 pm (UTC -4)
Catch you bright and early for that one…
greggofboken
2/12/2013-8:50pm at 8:50 pm (UTC -4)
Define “clean”.
Mr North Jersey
2/12/2013-8:58pm at 8:58 pm (UTC -4)
The Date: 9/27/89
The Teams: Phillies @ Mets
The Players: Roger McDowell vs Gregg Jefferies
srt
2/13/2013-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
Ah….Gregg Jeffries. Yet another prospect who didn’t quite live up to his hype in NY.
Stick
2/13/2013-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
we used to call him Wonderboy.
Though he did have some pretty good years with St. Louis.
TX
2/13/2013-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
He didn’t hit to shabby in philly either. He was my first known prospect where I had so much hope and hype for him and he was just hated by the teammates. Dude was a doubles machine.
srt
2/13/2013-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
I think his problems on the Mets had more to do with his big mouth as a rookie and less with the latent he had.
srt
2/13/2013-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
*talent