I stole this from Metsblog this morning in a story about Collin Cowgill. This quote from the likely starting CF was intriguing. Is it just lip-service or does Wright finally feel comfortable being more of a vocal leader in the clubhouse? We saw it last year at times and while we never know what happens in the clubhouse I could see examples of Wright starting to assume the leadership role but I won’t say that he always looked comfortable doing so. More like the I should say something but is it my place look. With this comment and with Terry’s backing of Wright even being named captain has that time finally come? There’s going to be a lot of pressure for Wright to offensively live up to his contract but we all know that contract wasn’t JUST for offensive production or even production on the field for that matter. It was to be the captain, leader and face of the franchise. How much is that worth? I would say in the long-run about exactly what the Mets pay him.
Boomer posted this below but after reading the story I thought it belonged up here as well:
NY Mets 3B David Wright befriends war veteran Felix Perez during World Baseball Classic
92 comments
srt
3/8/2013-8:38am at 8:38 am (UTC -4)
I had no problem with the contract the Mets gave Wright. If they wanted to keep him a Met for life, it was more than fair.
And I do believe most all know this is Wright’s team now. I think he has taken a step up in that leadership role and I can see him being more comfortable doing so going forward, now that he’s got that contract extension.
I just don’t know about actually naming him the Captain and putting that ‘C’ on his jersey. I believe it’s really unnecessary but I have a feeling it might get done.
Boomer
3/8/2013-8:44am at 8:44 am (UTC -4)
I was watching the WBC game last night between the DR and Venezuela and there was a rain delay in the first inning. During the rain delay they ran a story about Wright and a wounded US Army veteran, Felix Perez, who started a friendship after Wright’s walk off single in the last WBC.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/mets-baseman-wright-classic-friendship-war-veteran-article-1.1259723
Pretty nice story. Yeah, I think Wright is an excellent ambassador for the team and will definitely earn his contract.
srt
3/8/2013-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
Great story.
This goes beyond ambassador. It’s just 2 young men who met through that ‘ambassador’ hat Wright wears now but who really hit it off. They’re friends now, doing what I assume regular male friends do that count as ‘bonding’. Trash talk each others sports team, razz each other – occasionally talk serious.
I’ve read before where Wright has tremendous respect for our guys and gals in the military. He’s been quoted on numerous occasions as saying something like ‘I just play a game. These guys sacrifice for our continued freedom’.
I’d say he gets it.
TRS86
3/8/2013-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
I think that last sentence describes Wright top to bottom.
TX
3/8/2013-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
At this point, it will be perceived as a slight against Wright if he isn’t given the Captaincy.
TRS86
3/8/2013-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t see the need to attach it to a jersey. You either are the captain in MLB or you aren’t. No letter can make you captain. That’s just for the fans and media.
TX
3/8/2013-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
That’s what my comment is about. Perceived. And it’ll get press and be an annoyance. If he is that guy already, just go through the motions, snag a seamstress and slap that C on the jersey. Last thing this team needs is distractions, and it seems Santana is getting that covered for us.
Boomer
3/8/2013-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
If it was my decision there wouldn’t be a “C”. I like the understated approach.
But the Mets have a precedent and they will probably put the “C” on his jersey.
TX
3/8/2013-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
And at the end of the day, C or no C, there usually is one or two that are the defacto Capt. It’s already been made into a little bit of a deal for the “writers” to bring up. Just nip it in the bud so we can focus on Duda’s D or Kirk’s K’s.
Stick
3/8/2013-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
if you want to eliminate the possible distraction, or any perceived slight, the easiest way is fro Wright to just come out and say something along the lines of “I am honored that people have been talking about it, but this is a team game, and I have no need to have a title like that. If the other players want to look at me as a leader it is up to them, but I am happy to just work hard to earn it on the field”
or he could go all WWF, and at the presser, rip it off his chest, stomp on it and scream “I don’t need no stinking C. I will kill it and eat it’s children”
TX
3/8/2013-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
If somehow KoKo B. Ware is involved, I’m all for it.
TRS86
3/8/2013-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
Anyone want to play guess the lineup?
I got
Cowgill, Murphy, Wright, Davis, Byrd, Duda, Tejada, Buck.
srt
3/8/2013-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Looks feasible.
That is when Byrd, Cowgill and Duda are playing the OF.
I have a feeling we’re going to see plenty of switching out of OF spots this year.
TRS86
3/8/2013-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I thought so earlier but I am not so sure anymore. I think Cowgill and Byrd may get plenty of chances against LH and RH .
kingman 26
3/8/2013-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
That is one horrific lineup.
Unless we get 2012 1st half Dimples and 2012 2nd half Ike, this could be the worst offensive team in the game, maybe even including AAA.
And when Cowgill is hitting .118 on May 1, let Tejada lead off.
TX
3/8/2013-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Your first sentence was the first thought that popped to my mind. It does get a little better if Valdy could take the opportunity by the short ones, when Darno gets the call and then there will be the looming possibility of Flores at 2B in the near future too. Tradebait Murph!
kingman 26
3/8/2013-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
This is why I cannot get too angry no matter how poorly 2013 starts out…we have d’Arnaud and Wheeler on the way, we have Johan on the way out, we have Flores and Syndergaard and Montero and others germinating…there’s hope..it might not show itself until 2014, but there’s a lot of reason for hope.
The rotation, catcher, and the infield might be set for years.
Now Alderson must hope that some pen arms pan out and he must do something about the OF.
TX
3/8/2013-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Still chaps my backside about the Bourn deal. I know it was a long shot at best, was a rouse or whatever, but if he was signed, it changes the dynamics of the team. Duda’s D becomes a little less troublesome, with the larger area that Bourn can cover. We don’t have to sit and say “What about Cowgill or Tejada or Valdy or Baxter for leadoff…”. We don’t have to have 3 full OF spots that will be plug and play, dependent on the handed-ness of the pitcher.
TRS86
3/8/2013-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think the CF we have are slobs on defense.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
And to me TX it puts the entire team in a different position in 2013 when you almost certainly have Wheeler and d’Arnaud opening with the team.
But I honestly feel that the Bourn situation was a total charade for the fan base…they had zero intention of signing him and Bourn has even said he had zero intention of waiting for the draft pick issue to be settled.
That was more “We’re buyers!” total and utter bullWilpon.
TX
3/8/2013-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
TRS, no, we don’t have slobs on D, but we have a complete and utter hole in the lineup where the CF player is penciled in said lineup card. Den Deks is the better of the Kirk/Den Deks duo, and that isn’t saying much.
And Kong, you may be 100% correct on the charade. Which is why it doesn’t anger me, per se about him not being a Met. I look at it and say, on paper and in a vacuum where all the other crappy factors aren’t there, he would have been an extremely nice fit for the team.
TRS86
3/8/2013-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think Bourn was a charade at all but personally I am incredibly glad they didn’t give him the contract he received.
As for his offense, it would help for sure but in no way cure the ills enough to justify that contract. For all that he is, Bourn was just a guy with a career OPS BARELY over .700.
TX
3/8/2013-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
The dude had WARs of 4.7, 5.3, 3.0 & 6.0 the past 4 years. Just saying.
TRS86
3/8/2013-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Yup and also showing one of the biggest flaws with WAR. It is entirely too dependent on UZR whose creators even admit that it’s supposed to be used over a 3 year period and not year to year. His career batting number according to fangraphs? -18.4.
But just to show that UZR issue.
2008 +4
2009 +9.9
2010 +20.6
2011 -6.2
2012 22.5
Well that’s incredibly inconsistent to say the least. I guess we are supposed to believe that he just learned from experience last year or had a bad 2011 or was great in 2010 or was a +5 guy before then?
What we do know is that last year in his best offensive year of his career he still ranked 12th in batting among qualified CF last year according to fangraphs and 39th overall in the OF barely ahead of David DeJesus.
His baserunning with 6th in CF and 8th total in the OF yet his defense last year was 1st.
Switching to BR instead of fangraphs to look at OWAR he ranked 52 in the MLB last year and 66th the year before.
He wouldn’t have cured much of our offensive woes.
TRS86
3/8/2013-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it’s as bad as you think but go figure. Honestly, lets take a look at the Yankees opening day lineup.
Gardner
Jeter(maybe)
Cano
Youk
Hafner
Ichiro
Nunez
Mesa
Cervelli
And that’s in the AL East WITH a DH. Not one single guy that hit 20+ HR last year.
Then of course you have the Marlins, Astros, Cubs with horrible lineups as well.
We know the offense won’t be great this year but hopefully they can return to what they had been for the entire time Alderson was here up until last year post ASB.
TRS86
3/8/2013-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Also, I know you are down on Cowgill but if anything the A’s last year prove that guys that have never been given a chance can come out of no where to hit.
Brandon Moss
.236 .300 .382 .682 prior to last year
.291 .358 .596 .954 last year
Josh Reddick’s 32 HR year after having 10 in 143 games for the Redsox.
He may stink but his minor league numbers show enough promise that perhaps with PA’s he can have a good year.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Oh boy Chief are you lobbing softballs.
“…but we all know that contract wasn’t JUST for offensive production or even production on the field for that matter.”
Correct.
It was to sell shirts and keep the casual folks who whine for an autograph from David before the game, or long to just touch the hem of his garment, and then play on their iPhones during the part of the game when St. Dimples the Glorious is not batting…sorry my friend, but that–more than anything else–is why he was given that insane Omarian contract when he could have brought a return possibly even greater than Dickey’s.
Imagine if we had another 2-3 kids on the level of d’Arnaud and Syndergaard instead of a deal which will (over)pay Wright for eight years…imagine if we had 4 or 5 of the game’s brightest prospects instead of 2 or 3 of them…and were grooming Flores for the position he is suited for.
I hope Wright has a year like he has not touched since 2008.
I also hope the Nets win the NBA title this year and that the Dolphins go 16-0 in 2013.
And that my old Seattle band might still get signed and be bigger than Nirvana.
As Boomer says, Wright is a great ambassador and by all signs he is a kind, thoughtful, hard-working, and all-around excellent person.
But that deal was first and foremost about keeping the people who come for His Dimpleship coming to games and buying shirts and coffees and cheering every time his Holy Name is mentioned over the PA system, and not with winning in mind.
TRS86
3/8/2013-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Kong, as I said it was for both. Wright is a top 3 3B in baseball and is getting paid like it. As for how much he would have gotten in trade? I can’t say. Would it have been as much as Dickey? I have no idea. That being said baseball is indeed a business. We have a proven guy in Wright that can play 3B and knows how to be the face of a franchise during a rebuilding time. Even if we had traded him, it might have been years before someone could have replaced what he provides both on and off the field.
I said it at the time and I will again. I see both sides of the Wright debate and there certainly isn’t a clear cut side. I will say the fact that he seems to have signed for below market value ( I know we disagree but most in baseball agree) makes me feel better about the decision. I will feel even better if they spend next off-season.
TX
3/8/2013-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
I’d have to follow up on this with a sign that has a “We miss Grave” message on it and right below that would be fine print that says “read his series on trading stars for prospects again”.
And if putting fans in seats more than offsets his contract, his signing is a good thing.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
I still miss what Grave contributed as an author and as a commenter.
But as I have pointed out again and again and again and again, that series missed the mark as there is a LONG list of trades of stars for prospects which yielded a magnificent return for the team trading the star.
This my friend is easily verifiable fact.
TX
3/8/2013-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I think we may see another one when we look back on the Dickey trade, so you can add another to your list.
I still think it was the proper plan to trade Dickey, keep Wright, but time will tell.
TRS86
3/8/2013-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
I thought Grave’s research was pretty inclusive. You want to do a counter piece?
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
TRS–Outstanding idea…really…will try to do it for sure in the next week…
TX
3/8/2013-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Kong, my quick 2 cents on this is that you need to establish what is the level at what you consider a star to be. Trading Alexander for Smoltz was a great trade for ATL, but I wouldn’t consider Alexander a star. Something along that idea.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Agreed TX and that will be part of it, but let’s remember, RA had two good-to-very-good years and one Cy Young–he was not Tom Seaver being traded in his prime.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Well TRS this is really just a great comment–fair and even-handed, and I just cannot argue with any of it.
Boomer
3/8/2013-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
You could pretty much make that argument about any player in the game. Is Stanton a huge talent that puts people in the seats and sells tickets and merchandise? You bet. If Miami was offered a blockbuster package of talent in exchange would it be wise to trade him? Depends on the package.
There are a number of fans with every professional franchise that love the homegrown kid, particularly when he is 1) a top talent and 2) an All-American boy who your mom wonders why you couldn’t have been more like and they tend to be loyal and diehard fans (see money). But that always gets weighed against what could be obtained in a trade.
At the end of the day, no player in any sport is untouchable despite what FOs say. But for some franchise type players the offer would have to be so overwhelming that the offers rarely come. Wright is one of those guys.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Boomer—Aside from the first three months of 2012, Wright has–for four years now–not been close to the player he was from 2005–2008.
This is not arguable in the real world.
Stanton today is akin to Wright in 2005 or 2006–a rising serious star.
Wright has not been that guy since 2008.
Boomer
3/8/2013-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I agree and am not saying that Wright = Stanton. I was just using him as an example. If Stanton was eligible for a contract today his agreement would dwarf Wright’s and I doubt anyone would find that out of line.
My point is that certain players have value well beyond the field and that value is real. Wright is one of those players. So is Stanton. But either one of them would be expendable if some other team wanted to overpay for them which is why the Mets locked up Wright before that even became an option.
But he wouldn’t have that value if he wasn’t one of the top 3rd basemen in the game. He should have one another gold glove last year and despite his 2nd half he had a monster 1st half without which the Mets wouldn’t have even been a blip on the radar going into the 2nd half.
I would take Wright on my team any day of the week and am more than comfortable with the contract he signed.
Boomer
3/8/2013-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
one = won
Need more coffee.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
I agree with some of this, but let’s remember—his 2nd half was precisely the same as his 2011—he was pretty mediocre and not a top anything, and the team tanked around him at lightning-fast speed. A top superstar doesn’t disappear for three months as Wright did and lead his team into the tank like that.
I do agree that his fielding was excellent last year.
Value well beyond the field? Not sure how much I agree with this. We all want the team to win. How much did the 1986 guys have value off the field? With their drug/alcohol/legal issues and plane destruction, they might have had negative value. Do we all love the 1986 team to this day? I sure do.
Yeah, I am very much in favor of maturity and good behavior, but I also want the team to win. Not sure if Wright’s smiling face means all that much to me unless he starts playing again like he did from 2005–2008 which, again, he has not come close to aside from three months in 2012, which were followed by three months which were not remotely close to being those of a 20M per year captain type player.
Boomer
3/8/2013-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Have to continue later. Unlike Wright, I have zero value off the field and duty calls.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
LOL! I hear you man!
srt
3/8/2013-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
‘Is Stanton a huge talent that puts people in the seats and sells tickets and merchandise? You bet’
Anywhere but Miami, maybe. LOL.
Stanton is not going to be enough to even remotely match the Marlins attendance last season – which, for a brand new stadium was not all that good.
greggofboken
3/8/2013-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Every spring Jeff Wilpon does something to make his presence felt:
The “Prevention & Recovery” slogan
The Underdog T-Shirts
The David Wright Captaincy campaign
This one is less objectionable than its predecessors. But it’s just as superfluous.
What if it were awarded on a task-basis?
– Succeed in removing Jordany Valdespin’s head from his backside
– When a player from a competitor upends your rookie shortstop with a dirty slide, you be the guy who takes him out, rather than putting his butt and chatting him up at third base like it was your high school reunion
– When some soon-to-be-gone reliever plunks Ryan Braun, don’t stage a mini-opera in the dugout about being pulled out of the game — stay in there…..and straighten your reliever out afterwards
– When MLB tells you you can wear 9/11 hats for pregarme warmups but not on the field — wear them anyway.
Two out of four accomplished gets you the leadership merit badge, an extra Ring Ding at refreshment time and team captaincy.
TX
3/8/2013-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Change the Ring Ding to a Chocodile and you have yourself a deal.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Gregg your second one is the reason why this is a joke and helps keep the Mets as laughingstocks.
I am not pro-violence, but baseball is not chess or a debate–it is a physical sport.
In that game last year the Nats pushed the Mets around in Citi while again beating us, and no one did sh*t.
Wright is indeed captain of butt-patting and chatting guys up at 3B.
Compared to past captains, he is indeed softer than soggy Charmin.
Stick
3/8/2013-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
well, in general, I think the impact of the “leader” guy is vastly overrated, compared to things like having actual talent on the team. And you would like to thing the manager would be the ultimate “leader”.
But, certainly fine to have dominant personalities (if they are channeled for good, not evil!) on the team, to help guide the younger or more lackadasical players. though #1 should be leading by example.
However, even conceding the need for some level of clubhouse leader, from the outside (filtered through media reports) it never really seemed thta DW was that type of personality. No knock on him, or any reason not to respect him (fans or rookies). just does not seem like his “vibe”
and frankly, it worries me, since I do think he has in the past tried to take too much responsibility to carry the team, with disasterous results. Yes, IMO he would be much better off if there were a couple of grizzled vets dominating the culture (Cliff Floyd? Julio Franko?), so DW could just hang out, and be one of the crowd.
I would be fine if his “leadership” was in being a front man to the media as needed, and leading by example (including running out all GBs and pop-ups, thank you very much).
kingman 26
3/8/2013-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Great last sentence—Wright has not run out a grounder in years, and this always bothers me—and also makes it OK for FMart not to run out grounders when he is called up.
Wright’s a fine, fine player and a great human being, but the idea that he is a rah-rah, tough/gritty team leader in the mold of Keith and Carter is simply not reality, never has been, and never will be.
Give Harvey another year or two and the team will have its gritty leader…maybe d’Arnaud will be that type as well.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Carter? I thought the rest of the bad boys couldn’t stand him (or laughed at him or some such?)
And Keith still has to live down the feet on the desk drinking a beer when his turn AB was about to come up in the WS!
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Yup, Carter was the outsider for sure. They viewed him as fake, or a goodie goodie.
srt
3/8/2013-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Kid – may he R.I.P.
I think the knock on Carter by his teammates was he was an attention seeker. If there was a camera nearby, he was smiling into it.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Some of the guys on the 1986 team sure did think Carter was a goodie goodie–largely due to his emphasis on religion and being family-oriented and not a partying child…but not everyone on the team was a childish druggie/drinker who liked to rip out airplane seats and act like a 6-year-old.
As many have said many times, Keith and Gary represented both sides of the team and were the yin and yang of that group.
Keith was the leader of the partiers and Carter was looked up to by the more family-oriented grownups–they were ideal co-leaders for that team.
And no Stick, Keith does not have to live down anything about that moment, that year, or his Met tenure.
Are any of you going to argue that David Wright is as tough as Gary Carter?
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
For all this talk about what Wright hasn’t been since 2008, he’s still been one of the top 5 3B in the game since then.
According to Fangraphs’ offensive stat, he ranks 2nd from 2009-2012 right behind Longoria.
For those of you who DO like WAR, his 7.8 WAR last year is the highest WAR among 3B from 2009-2012. In fact going back to 2006 #2 and 3 during that time belong to Wright.
srt
3/8/2013-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Wright has been a star player, up to this point – IMO.
But not a superstar. I think that’s where the line is drawn in the sand for some.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
and frankly, in today’s market, he only gets paid like a “star” at his ~ 17mill AAV. Not a superstar.
hell, he gets paid about what Reyes does. and 1/3 less than the superstar class (pujos, A Rod, etc.).
when Vicky, as shot as he is, gets 12/13 mill/year, then you know the pay scale is totally out of whack.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
This is what I mean about Wright–he causes delusion in fans.
TRS in one comment you are yelping about how meaningless WAR is due to the defensive component and right here you are telling us about Wright’s 2012 WAR, which was dramatically inflated by his defense, and also does not take into account that he largely sucked after the break.
Perhaps 3B–like 2B–is weak right now…that does not make Wright’s overall good-but-not-close-to-superstar last four years one iota better.
It just boggles the mind how some people get personally offended and act as thought Wright is Mike Schmidt or that he is still what he WAS from 2005–2008.
It is simply inexplicable.
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I included WAR because some like it.
“For those of you who DO like WAR,”
But I started with this:
“According to Fangraphs’ offensive stat, he ranks 2nd from 2009-2012 right behind Longoria.”
So in a time where you say that Wright isn’t what he was? We all agree. Where we seem to disagree is during that time he was still a top 3B.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Well, again, fine…I never say that he sucks or is not a good player. I just disagree with the seeming worship some throw his way.
A top 3B? By stats? Maybe yes.
But again, this may be a factor of the position being weak more than it speaks to how good he still is.
All I ever tried to say is that based on his last four years, giving him that contract and anointing him captain of the future is, to me, being on VERY thin ice.
Especially when one considers what it could have been like to have another 2–3 top prospects instead of paying Wright 20M for all those years.
greggofboken
3/8/2013-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
WAR may be imperfect b/c of its reliance on defensive numbers which even the best available resources measure only w/substantial inconsistency — but in my view, imperfect though it is, it is the best single measure currently out there. To value a player based on offensive measures only, b/c we don’t like WAR’s imperfections, seems short-sighted to me.
And, like the defensive measures, I agree it makes sense in most cases to use a 3-year aggregate for benchmarking.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Gregg–Not at all what I was saying…WAR is without a doubt the single best tool.
And I appreciate the defensive metrics.
Just saying that Wright’s 2012 WAR MAY be a tad misleading as it is skewed by the dWAR and also by his off-the-charts 1st half, which was followed by a very consistently weak 2nd half.
And when we discuss WAR, something needs to be done about the way WAR values closers. Mariano’s WAR topped 4 only 3 times and that seems kind of bizarre.
He was among the most valuable players of his generation, and maybe THE best postseason player ever.
TRS86
3/8/2013-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
Since when did we break up stats only by halves as a way of judging a player? That’s a fine line unless we also take into consideration how others fared in the first half or 2nd half or home or away or as 3rd in the lineup…
We know his stats went down in the 2nd half. That’s obvious. However, that doesn’t taint his WAR unless those stats aren’t included.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
When a player has a terrible year, as Wright did in 2011 (by his standards/for his salary) then has a great first half in 2012, and then reverts in the second half of 2012 to his 2011 level of offensive production, to me, that screams WARNING WARNING.
Sure, overall without examination his 2012 appears very good, but upon closer examination it was not as good as the WAR indicated IMHO.
TRS86
3/8/2013-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
I guess it just depends on how you look at it. We know most of the reasons why Wright’s 2011 was terrible. 2010 you had a Wright that still managed 29 HR and 103 RBI on a not very good team. 2011 his 2nd half was better but then still far below his norm but how much of that year was due to a broken back?
TRS86
3/8/2013-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
I just think that the defensive part of it varies so much that it makes WAR a little bit too volatile at times.
As for using the OWAR, I think that part of that is Wright is ultimately being judged on his offense and offensively even from 2009-2012 he was still a top 3B and that is part of the reason why he is being paid like one.
Also lets not inflate his contract, he barely got a raise and the total value of his contract is 20th all-time and 43rd in annual value (17.25, not 20M). Hardly paying him like a superstar either.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Probably a case of famiarity breeds contempt? Some of those other guys have had their own bad or injury ravaged years, and can be quite streaky too.
bottom line, damned if you do/don’t. Let your best home grown players walk, the owners are evil cheap barstards. Sign the guy to a windfall deal, and they are sentimental morons.
But while DW may have been signed partly for fan appeasement (asses in seats), IMO that marketing budget piece is just the last couple of years at 12/13 million. take that out, and the 6/110 (or so) is probably just market value for a guy at his level.
And not really debatable that he is/was far and away the best position player on the team.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
“And not really debatable that he is/was far and away the best position player on the team.”
So what?
Aside from Ike’s potential, which position player right now on this team is anything but average or below average?
And to me age was a major consideration as well…that extension begins when he is 31 and 1/2 years old.
Insanity.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
Oh, I like the “guess the kineup” game.
TRS speculates:
Cowgill, Murphy, Wright, Davis, Byrd, Duda, Tejada, Buck.
based on the current guys on hand (still possible there will be an outsider brought in), looks about right. Though I still hope Brown gets hot to win the RF job, and Byrd turns back into a pumpkin before the regular season, not after.
i do expect to see platoons though, so while this will be the LHSP lineup, expect 1 or 2 lefties vs. RHSP. baxter and Kirk? Spin (but only if he can play CF)?
if Cowpie is on the bench vs. RHP, baxter can lead off.
Vs. RHSP:
Baxter, Murphy, Wright, Davis, (Spin/kirk), Duda, Tejada, Buck.
Man, that is a LOOGYs dream!
Now, if everything goes well and the stars align, maybe by the end of the year it will include Flores and D’oorknob and 1-2 better OFs that aren’t on the roster yet.
srt
3/8/2013-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Honestly, I’d like to see Brown win the LF spot – at least in a platoon.
Nothing against the kid, but even if Duda puts up 30+ hrs this season, I still don’t think he should be playing LF. He can learn to get better jumps on balls, but you just cannot teach speed. And that’s always going to be a problem for him. No fault of his own, but he just doesn’t belong in the OF.
Now….if he could be counted on to hit 40 HRs a year, I might have to consider it.
TX
3/8/2013-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
I’d like to see this instead:
Cowgill/Valdy, Flores, Wright, Ike, Viciedo, Duda, Darno, Tejada.
Murph and Fulmer (plus others, if needed) for Vicedo and a toss in. CHW will need a 2B when Gordon Beckham tears an ACL moving his love seat without assistance.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
how about flipping vicideo (that I admit, I know nothing about!) and flores in there? really don’t think Flores has the speed to hit 2nd . Contact ability for sure, but I like a 2 hole guy with some wheels.
Spin could be the guy also.
TX
3/8/2013-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Vicideo had a .255/.300/.444 slash line, with 25 HRs and 78 Rib-Eyes. 23 yrs old. Plays 1B/3B/corner OF. Average D. Make 2.5 mil He’s a Boras guy, but controllable for some time (FA in 2018). If you can leverage some of that young pitching (Fulmer and another if needed) with Murph, I’d overpay for him.
It’s probably a pipe dream and they won’t want to part with him, but I think he could be had.
srt
3/8/2013-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
OT:
Hey stick:
‘Fightin’ Phils tiring of watching their hitters get drilled’
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/scott-miller/21826178/fightin-phils-tiring-of-watching-their-hitters-get-drilled
Saw where Stras drilled Utley and Halladay then threw ‘behind’ Moore.
Looks like the Hamels drilling Harper Phillies/Nats rivalry is continuing into this season. This time though, the Phils will be the ones looking up. hahaha
kingman 26
3/8/2013-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
One thing we can be sure of is no Met pitchers ever retaliating for guys getting drilled or spiked at 2B.
Maybe Wright slides into 2B with spikes flying.
LOL–it is funny to even write that!
Oh well, that all changes when Wally becomes manager.
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Kong, I can’t help but think you are going to be incredibly disappointed with the next managerial choice.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I am not at all hoping for Wally. Though I have zero interest in the likely choices like Geren.
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Actually between Wally and Geren? I am not even sure which one I would pick. Part of the darkside of me want’s to just go ahead and get the Wally thing over with so I don’t have to hear about it anymore.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
TRS, only if it is another retread with a VERY questionable track record like Collins.
I think it is time for new, younger blood–or a proven winner/good strategist/disciplinarian.
If they can do better than Backman? Great.
Remember, I BADLY wanted Showalter and still think he was the ideal choice.
All he does is win.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Serious question, if the players are not the types to do it, do you think that Wally will change anything? can he force a guy to throw a beanball or sharpen up the spots and go all Ty Cobb out there?
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
From watching the Bisons? I didn’t see anything about a gritty team other than lots of bunts and some poor gut management of the bullpen.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Openly admit I have not watched the Bisons. I am reacting based on Backman the player, his overall MIL record, what players have stated about him, and the overall generally pretty wise managerial decisions made by AZ.
greggofboken
3/8/2013-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Including the one to fire him?
TRS86
3/8/2013-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly Kong, not saying this is you, but I think most are relying on his playing days and more importantly because he is a former Met that played on the 86 team.
Personally, I just don’t get the desire to see him at manager and I am not sure Sandy does either but we shall see.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Gregg–Obviously my comment is based on their decision to hire him, based on what they have been, which is, quite clearly, one of the game’s best-managed organizations since their inception. If they decided to hire him, there’s a good chance that he showed them serious managerial skills. And obviously their decision to fire him had less than nothing to do with anything baseball related.
TRS–I definitely am openly partly basing my thoughts on him based on his playing career–not for the childish reason that he is somehow superior based on being a platoon player in 1986. I think that players like him–i.e. guys who clearly are not the most talented or athletic but work their asses off and clearly maximize their talent–often make good managers.
I think of guys like Billy Martin, Joe Girardi, and others who were not the most gifted, worked really hard, AND benefited from being on great teams and being around great players.
I really think Backman MAY fit this profile.
Or he may not.
Either way, I am going to work MY butt off to get an exclusive interview with him in Las Vegas this year.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
I have no idea how “spikes” came out as “spots”. But you get the idea.
Stick
3/8/2013-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
I hate the phils, and ever more so with their current “woe is us” pity party. Considering they have Utley who has been sticking body parts out for years to try and get hit, screw them. The Stras pitch was very unlikely to be intentional (a curveball in the dirt that nicked his ankle), but the Halladay pitch was flat out funny. Looked like a pitchout, to the wrong side of the batter.
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Here’s another one. I guess conspiracy theory is the Mets have told them to talk good about Wright?
” Now it’s David Wright, I have a ton of respect for the guy, just the way he handles himself on and off the field is what I admire most and a path I try to follow. He sets a great example for us younger players and now that he’s locked up with us I’m looking forward to possibly having him play third base behind me one day.”
MMO Exclusive: Meet 2012 Draft Pick RHP Robert Whalen
Stick
3/8/2013-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
he does need to accept the responsibility and bust his ass to 1B aevery AB (well, at least the ones where he does not K or BB, which is what, 3/game most likely?)
TRS86
3/8/2013-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Find me a player who does every AB. I think we like to use selective memory there.
kingman 26
3/8/2013-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
He NEVER EVER runs out grounders.
Ever.
There’s a gap between doing it every AB like Murphy and NEVER doing it like St. Dimples the Magnificent and the Beyond Reproach.
darknova306
3/8/2013-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
How many veterans hustle constantly? I fully expect it to get worse now that Kaptain Payday has his big contract.
TX
3/8/2013-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
Tough to run with all that cash in his pockets. Plus Molly Beers cooking at home.