When news broke this week of Chris Sale’s new five-year extension with the White Sox, my thoughts immediately turned to Matt Harvey and the Mets front office. Sale, a 23 year-old left-hander, went 17-8 with a 3.05 ERA while striking out 192 batters in 192 innings. A reliever-turned starter, Sale was a highly-touted prospect and pitched well out of the bullpen before being converted. He’s young, and he’s dominant.
The Rays signed young righty Matt Moore to a similar team-friendly deal before he had significant major league experience. The Mets themselves signed Jon Niese to a very team-friendly extension last April. It seems to be becoming a trend in baseball as teams look to save money. This raises some very interesting questions with the Mets, who have Zack Wheeler coming up later this season and Matt Harvey already in the big leagues. Few teams would take a multi-million dollar risk on someone who hasn’t even reached the big leagues yet like Wheeler, but Harvey on the other hand, could be a candidate for one of these contracts.
Obviously, the Mets would absolutely love to sign Harvey to a team-friendly extension. The only problem, of course, is that it would require his consent. That’s the problem with these types of deals in general. The player and agent might feel he could get more through the arbitration process, and would be willing to play it out. Other times, the player is so dedicated to winning, that he will sign for a few million less for the good of the organization. So far, Harvey has shown the personality of one of those players, whose sole focus is winning baseball games.There may be one problem that stands between the two sides making a deal: his agent.
This whole scenario could play out sometime this season. With each passing month (assuming he is pitching well,) Harvey will become more expensive. The front office will have to make sure they have the “real deal” before making an offer, but they also shouldn’t wait more than a year to take action, or he will become very expensive.
35 comments
gategem
3/9/2013-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Connor you wrote a great article with one flaw. Harvey has yet to pitch a complete season in the majors. Over the years I’ve seen pitchers with Harvey’s talent and commitment burst on the scene and then fail. Even though the feds are printing money to keep the interest rates down, the Dow Jones Industrial Average at all time levels and cause the value of the dollar to ever diminish we are still talking about large sums of money here. The team still controls Harvey for a number of years and as yet Harvey has not had the success of Sale. Harvey has yet to prove that he’s the next coming of Tom Seaver. If and when he does the team will compensate Harvey very well.
Stick
3/9/2013-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
those are exactly the reasons that a deal like this is for less than the “best case” arbitration/FA awards they could in theory get if they become stars. Because odds are, they won’t.
gategem
3/9/2013-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
However, it’s not done after 10 starts.
Stick
3/9/2013-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
Tb seems to do it early. But I was just pointing out that the concept of a “home town discount” is also just a case of players wanting to lock in a big deal by taking a little less to get it done early.
gategem
3/9/2013-10:51pm at 10:51 pm (UTC -4)
Didn’t the Mets do something similar to both Wright and Reyes?
Stick
3/9/2013-11:03pm at 11:03 pm (UTC -4)
they did, similar to Neise at about the same time. Maybe the first year they were hitting arbitration?
Tommy2cat
3/9/2013-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Connor – Patience is a virtue.
2015: Harvey, Niese, Wheeler, Fulmer, Syndergaard, Montero, Tapia, Mateo, etc…
Step-by-step… if the team is winning, Harvey & the Mets will find a way for the new tradition to continue.
Patience
Boomer
3/9/2013-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Sale’s first season in the bigs was 2010. He got better in 2011 and better still in 2012.
Harvey broke into the bigs in 2012. Much as I like the kid, might be a good idea to see what he does in his 11th game before writing him the big check.
Stick
3/9/2013-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
that is why most likely it will be a next off season activity.
Stick
3/9/2013-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
if he has a good year, very likely that they explore a deal like this. nature of the game now.
but, I will quibble with something you said: ” Other times, the player is so dedicated to winning, that he will sign for a few million less for the good of the organization.”
that is not why they do it. As always, it is for their own interests. basically, early on the player assumes all the risk. One of these buy-out deals sets the player up for life, courtesy of the team, who accepts the the $30mill worth of risk.
so really the player is buying a nice insurance policy. If it works out for the organization, that is just an incidental side bonus!
darknova306
3/9/2013-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
That’s precisely what it is. The early contract signing is a combination of the player reducing risk by getting a guaranteed contract setting him up for the rest of his life, and the organization is betting that he’ll become a star and is paying a bit more up front to push off the day they have to give him superstar money.
This game is all about money, and it’s all based on risk/reward and cost/benefit analysis. Plain and simple. Any other narrative attached to it is just romanticized fantasy on our parts.
Stick
3/9/2013-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
agreed. and that IMO is really all the “home town discount” is, when those are signed say a year early.
kingman 26
3/9/2013-6:04pm at 6:04 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed with the others–let us see Harvey pitch an excellent full year–a la Sale–and then give him the long term deal.
darknova306
3/9/2013-7:40pm at 7:40 pm (UTC -4)
So I saw a few tweets in my timeline today mentioning that Santana is day to day right now? Did something happen to him? I can’t seem to find much info anywhere about it.
darknova306
3/9/2013-8:41pm at 8:41 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, nevermind. It’s just Terry explaining why Santana didn’t work out with the team today. Whatever. We all know he’s enjoying the Minaya Retirement Plan’s day spa.
greggofboken
3/9/2013-9:21pm at 9:21 pm (UTC -4)
Alderson calls out Santana for not doing the work necessary to come to camp ready to pitch.
Santana feels disrespected, says “I’ll show you.” and jumps out on a mound to prove his integrity, durability, and testesterone level.
Collins and Warthen cite “fatigue” and Santana pulled back once again.
Alderson: 1, Santana’s ego: 0.
Hazmet
3/9/2013-10:02pm at 10:02 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly. What I haven’t been able to wrap my head around is that as much as Johan has stated he knows what it takes to get ready for the season that he hasn’t been able to consider for one second that this isn’t like prior seasons where he’s gotten ready. This is a season coming back after being shutdown after coming back from major surgery and that he’s no spring chicken anymore. I can’t believe that thought hasn’t crossed his mind. Or, is he that arrogant to think that what he did to get ready as a player in his 20′s is going to be good enough to get ready as an aging player on the back 9 of his career. While I believe every great athelete needs that arrogance to be great it would be a shame that in the last year of his contract with the Mets he’s going to learn the lesson of needing to change his routine as an aging player to the tune of $31M to our franchise. Very disappointing.
Stick
3/9/2013-10:42pm at 10:42 pm (UTC -4)
history is full of of athletes that could not come to grip with advancing age and declining skills.
In this case, if I got things straight (entirely possible I don’t of course!) in normal years, Johan worked out over the winter, did throwing, etc. and came into camp in some level of readiness.
but this year, he decided to just rest and do nothing, and came into camp way behind and totally unprepared. So basically, he had no clue how his body would respond to that routine, never having tried it before.
He should feel like a dope after getting called out for this.
gategem
3/9/2013-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
Is it possible that Santana actually had left the Mets complex to attend Chavez’s funeral?
darknova306
3/9/2013-10:54pm at 10:54 pm (UTC -4)
I think that the greater the athlete, the greater his inability to accept his only mortality and limitations. See: Martinez, Pedro. Seeing Pedro sitting in the dugout slowly weeping after his body finally said “dude, it’s over” will always stand out in my memory. Johan is likely about to have to accept some harsh realities about how the human body recovers from things as it ages.
gategem
3/9/2013-10:42pm at 10:42 pm (UTC -4)
Is it true that the Wilpons attempted to persuade Santana to assume a 20% cut in pay due to the Sequestration?
Boomer
3/9/2013-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
David Wright Grand Slam against Italy.
Bazinga.
darknova306
3/9/2013-10:55pm at 10:55 pm (UTC -4)
What was the Clutch Rating on that grand slam?
Boomer
3/9/2013-11:01pm at 11:01 pm (UTC -4)
Pretty damn high. Team USA has been looking pretty impotent and was down early to Italy 2-0. These lose this game and they’re done.
Stanton and Braun had already stranded a guy on 3rd with less than 2 outs and Wright steps up with 2 outs and crushes one. Pretty impressive.
Stick
3/9/2013-11:04pm at 11:04 pm (UTC -4)
I hope he saves some of that for the season.
Man, it would be nice to see him locked in early and stay that way all year.
darknova306
3/9/2013-11:19pm at 11:19 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, very sweet.
It would be nice if he could reduce his in-season variability this year.
Stick
3/9/2013-11:10pm at 11:10 pm (UTC -4)
just saw an interesting clip on the news from the Phils game today. Apparently they use Hooters girls (in their hooters outfits) as ball girls (and yes, feel free to snicker at the double entendre). So if nothing else, something to watch instead of the phils.
batter hits a ball right over the 3B bag, and heads into foul territory. Straight at the hooters blond. Who makes a nice play on the ball (practice? hee hee), then walks over to hand it to a kid in the stands.
At some point, they finally get it through to her that it was a fair ball, and she sits down and puts her glove over her face. Bad move there.
But, I forgive her.
darknova306
3/9/2013-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
So many jokes to be made…
Boomer
3/9/2013-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
I worked for a company that was based in Tampa for a number of years and had to go to HQ for about 1 week every month. They take their Hooters very seriously in that neck of the woods.
Literally.
Stick
3/9/2013-11:34pm at 11:34 pm (UTC -4)
chipper salutes you.
gategem
3/9/2013-11:44pm at 11:44 pm (UTC -4)
I take it seriously no matter where I’m situated. It’s one of the reasons I’ve been married so many times.
gategem
3/9/2013-11:51pm at 11:51 pm (UTC -4)
What seems like a thousand years ago I was a member of the Playboy Club and attended frequently so I got to know some of the girls. Imagine my surprise and glee when I found that the fraternal group I belonged to was to play the Playboy Bunnies in a game of flag football in Central Park for charity. We were only supposed to yank the flag for a tackle or so they told me after the game completed.
kingman 26
3/10/2013-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Nice writing as always. But you do seem to miss one massive issue—security.
If Niese won 25 last year and the Cy Young, yes, he would have left a ton of dough on the table. But conversely, if Niese regressed or suffered a horrific injury this contract still sets him up for life.
My guess is that guys take deals like this when very young for the security it provides.
Like Reyes and Wright did with Omar.
My guess is that if Harvey starts 30 games and has stats like he did in 2012, the team most definitely works to give him a Niese-type deal, but for more money.
Let’s get this going; lock up the kids as they did with Niese–lock them up so we do not even have to think free agency or annual arb battles.
Build a core and show these guys loyalty as they did with Niese. This is not a new trend; the Indians did it famously in the 1990s.
Stick
3/10/2013-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
Bingo.
Paul Festa
3/11/2013-1:26am at 1:26 am (UTC -4)
I think it makes great sense to lock him up ala Matt Moore. But only if he gets off to a good start this year.