I am thinking about running a series that takes something along the Mets lore and puts it into a hypothetical tournament. My first thoughts were:
Most hated opponent of all-time:
Most hated opponent team of all-time:
Most hated Met of all-time:
Most overrated Met of all-time:
Most underrated Met of all-time:
Worst Mets team of all-time:
Any other suggestions in this lighthearted series?
Oh and I guess I need some parameters. 8 candidates for the one we pick. That way it makes a nice easy tournament flow.
77 comments
Stick
3/11/2013-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
skip the worst mets teams one. that will just be too damned depressing. the others I like!
lets see, what else?
not sure if there are enough to go by, but best season slogan?
kingman 26
3/11/2013-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
This is good.
Most hated opponent of all-time: John Rocker and Pete Rose.
Most hated opponent team of all-time: 1973 A’s for a single season; the Mets had that WS. Have to go with the Yanks for the regular season.
Most hated Met of all-time: Vince Coleman.
Most overrated Met of all-time: Johan Santana.
Most underrated Met of all-time: Sid Fernandez.
Worst Mets team of all-time: 1993.
————————————————————
Any other suggestions in this lighthearted series?
Favorite regular season moment of all-time: Tough one. But not Johan’s 1-hitter.
Worst regular season moment of all-time: Pendleton’s HR off McDowell in 1987.
Favorite postseason moment of all-time: Last out of the 1986 WS.
Worst postseason moment of all-time: Scioscia HR off Doc in 1988 and Heilman/Molina in 2006.
Most unfairly maligned Met of all-time: Armando Benitez, Doug Sisk, and Luis Castillo.
TX
3/11/2013-2:19pm at 2:19 pm (UTC -4)
Add to that most hated Met: Bonilla, Alomar, Juan Samuel, Kent, Ollie Perez.
And I hated Pendleton. He was my original Met killer.
Stick
3/11/2013-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
Jeffries also got an unfair amount of hatred from the fanbase IMO.
anyway, I am just glad I don’t have to think of the 8 examples of any of these for the brackets!
TX
3/11/2013-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
Which I never understood. I know he had crazy amounts of hype and all that, but he still was good and honestly, he has that same swagger/self-entitlement that the rest of the late 80′s Mets had.
TRS86
3/11/2013-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
I added a qualifier. For the one that we pick I will make another post to come up with the 8 candidates we choose.
darknova306
3/11/2013-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
I’d probably have to vote for Favorite Regular Season Moment. That really gives the most options to choose from, and doesn’t exclude any particular generation of fan.
TRS86
3/11/2013-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a good one.
We will take these for today and then vote on one tomorrow.
Stick
3/11/2013-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
I have to say while this may not exactly fit here, it just made my day.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/10/charlie-manuel-run-over-by-tricycle/
darknova306
3/11/2013-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Hah! Hard not to smirk at that.
TRS86
3/11/2013-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
That’s funny as hell.
Stick
3/11/2013-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
I particularly like the comment about the coaches laughing like hell at him.
though probably not funny. A guy that old probably could easily break a hip (sorry Gate…)
gategem
3/12/2013-5:23am at 5:23 am (UTC -4)
Don’t worry these days the incidence of hips breaking at 69 is relatively low.
srt
3/11/2013-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
Aw…no video?
Boomer
3/11/2013-1:40pm at 1:40 pm (UTC -4)
Valdespin is doing his best to make this team. He leads off the game with a dinger against Verlander.
Short of an injury, I don’t see any way this kid isn’g going north.
Stick
3/11/2013-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
I think that would be wonderful. I said early on that I wanted to see ST as an open audition, best man wins, for any spot where there was noone entrenched. Meaning the OF and pen mostly.
though seeing Spin as the ongoing 2B is starting to look more interesting too, depending on what happens with gritty mcmurphstien
not like there is anyone in the OF mix that can’t be displaced. Even the “regular” (Duda) realistically has to be on a short leash.
at minimum, Spin has to get first crack at Kirk’s LH platoon guy role. If not winning a job outright.
If the OD OF is Duda in left, Cowpie and C, Spin/Byrd in R, with baxter as the 5th guy, they might just get some production out of it after all.
Boomer
3/11/2013-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Of course right after I say that Verlander plunks Spin and he’s out of the game.
Ack.
greggofboken
3/11/2013-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Per Rubin: The dinger came after this morning’s tweet from our modest young man:
No body cant stop me…….teamJV1
Then the dinger…..than the fastball to the groin….than Bixler.
Cause and effect…..
TX
3/11/2013-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
Twitter is best left alone. No good can come from it.
darknova306
3/11/2013-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
Fastball to the groin? Owww….
Stick
3/11/2013-3:41pm at 3:41 pm (UTC -4)
hope he was packing a cup.
gategem
3/12/2013-5:31am at 5:31 am (UTC -4)
Did he really write “No body cant stop me?” I guess he meant nobody could stop him and if I was another player I would have laughed rather than take offense. I wonder if Spin attended school?
TRS86
3/11/2013-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
Mike Puma @NYPost_Mets
Valdespin says he is OK … Asked where he got hit: “My dick,” Valdespin said.
LOLLLLLL You can’t be serious. This poor kid has absolutely no social skills.
Stick
3/11/2013-3:37pm at 3:37 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll go with ESL on this one. Just to be kind.
srt
3/11/2013-5:44pm at 5:44 pm (UTC -4)
Have to agree on Spin making the team. He’s sure making a strong showing for being on the 25 man.
greggofboken
3/11/2013-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
My votes:
Most hated opponent of all-time: Roger Clemens (unforgivable)
Most hated opponent team of all-time: the ’87 Cards (“Pond Scum” era)
Most hated Met of all-time: Ollie Perez
Most overrated Met of all-time: Hojo
Most underrated Met of all-time: Fonzie
Worst Mets team of all-time: Send ‘em all home. 1962
Sylow59
3/11/2013-6:40pm at 6:40 pm (UTC -4)
I live in St Louis. My nickname appears to be Pondscum.
kingman 26
3/11/2013-8:13pm at 8:13 pm (UTC -4)
Sylow!
Please visit regularly!
Boomer
3/11/2013-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
This is too funny. If he is gonna keep saying things like this I want him on the team just for comic relief.
>>NYPost_Mets Valdespin says he is OK … Asked where he got hit: “My dick,” Valdespin said.
TRS86
3/11/2013-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
^^ Yeah, I saw that. LOL TOOO funny.
TX
3/11/2013-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
million dollar talent. 10 cent brain.
TX
3/11/2013-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
And this is why I believe in my heart of hearts that Valdy will be trade bait.
Stick
3/11/2013-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
this being the Mets, you know if they trade him he is going to become an all-star someplace else and torment the Mets for years.
I still am pissed they traded Mitchell. I did love to see him play SS.
TX
3/11/2013-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
That move totally PO’d me. And while he may be underappreciated and what not, they should have had Mitchell in LF, not McReynolds.
srt
3/11/2013-5:45pm at 5:45 pm (UTC -4)
I’m with you guys. Not one of their better trade. And the reason was really dumb…..trading Mitchell did nothing to keep Straw and Doc from not going down the road to hell.
gategem
3/12/2013-5:38am at 5:38 am (UTC -4)
Reminds me of the old joke, he runs, throws, and is as strong as a gorilla. Now if only he was as smart as a gorilla……..
kingman 26
3/11/2013-4:25pm at 4:25 pm (UTC -4)
OMG that is CLASSIC!!
Damn, what a maroon.
Boomer
3/11/2013-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
Verlander’s take wasn’t too bad either.
NYPost_Mets Verlander on drilling Valdespin: “Right out of the hand it’s like, ‘Oh, sh–. That is right at his balls. ’ “
srt
3/11/2013-5:47pm at 5:47 pm (UTC -4)
LOL….all the more exciting games happening on the road so we miss these.
I’m getting kind of spoiled now.
No Mets ST game to watch today. No WBC games either.
Prismo
3/11/2013-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
(not looking up crap I don’t remember so this is mostly stuff since I’ve followed baseball)
Most hated opponent of all-time: John Rocker
Most hated opponent team of all-time: Tie between the Yankees and Braves in the mid-late 1990s (admittedly I loved Greg Maddux). 2007 Phillies gets an honorable mention.
Most hated Met of all-time: Jeff Kent. Just seemed like a big jerk.
Most overrated Met of all-time: Dave Kingman maybe?
Most underrated Met of all-time: Has to be a closer. Franco, Wagner, KRod, etc. Take your pick. Mets fans hate closers regardless of their overall performance.
Worst Mets team of all-time: You know, the easy pick (post-1980s) would be some of the 90s teams or early 00s teams. But those teams had a lot less to work with than we *should* have now. I think these past couple years had the “worst teams” if only because the money *should* have been there to support an above .500 team.
Stick
3/11/2013-3:59pm at 3:59 pm (UTC -4)
the money was spent to support .500+. It was just largely wasted.
And man, Knog is gonna be coming after your for picking on his boy.
If you want an underrated closer, it has to be Benetiz. His #s as a met were off the hook baby. Just had a couple of notable faux pas, but regular season he dominated.
personally, I hate the Phillies more. But that is just me.
darknova306
3/11/2013-4:57pm at 4:57 pm (UTC -4)
On the flip side, overrated closer: John Franco. He only looks ‘great’ because he pitched so long.
kingman 26
3/11/2013-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
WTF Prismo?
Who ever overrated Dave Kingman?
But since you brought it up, I think he was once as high as 19th on the all-time HR list, was 4th in HR/AB before the steroid era, 5 times in the top 25 in the MVP voting, and walked away at age 37 after hitting 100 HR in 3 years.
One of the most exciting Mets ever, and about the only non-pitcher that was worth watching from 1975–1977. Hit the longest and highest HRs ever hit at Shea.
Prismo
3/11/2013-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
*yawn* home runs. He spent part of 6 seasons with the Mets and posted an OBP above .300 just once. He was nominated for MVP awards before people realized that there was more to baseball than knocking out homers. He had a couple/few great seasons in the majors, but none with the Mets.
*prepared to be yelled at*
kingman 26
3/11/2013-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t really disagree with any of that, and I never yell.
OK, rarely yell.
I just think he was never, ever overrated…that’s why he moved around so much (four teams DURING the 1977 season!), and even at the end the A’s would not give him a 2-year deal.
He was just one of my all-time faves as a kid in the 1970s…he hit a disproportionate number of HRs at games I went to from 1975–1977 with my Dad, and I have the scorecards to prove it…I think I saw him hit 2 HR in a game 3 or 4 times back then, and I only went to a couple of games a year…also, he would generally get off to really fast HR starts…finally, some of his HRs to LF were just so majestic.
So yeah, I know he was a pretty bad overall player with a bad disposition, but I loved him as a kid, and that sort of stays with me today.
But I don’t think he was very overrated.
After all, he did lead the league in HR as a Met with 37 in 1982 while hitting .204—Ruth and Bonds never did THAT.
darknova306
3/11/2013-5:00pm at 5:00 pm (UTC -4)
We all have our heroes over the years that, upon reevaluation, weren’t nearly as good as we remember. I loved Jeff Innis, Masato Yoshii, and Vance Wilson over the years. Not exactly a ‘stellar’ crop of talent. :p
kingman 26
3/11/2013-5:25pm at 5:25 pm (UTC -4)
I loved Tim Teufel…and not sure if you are old enough to remember Ron Hodges, but I was a big fan of his too….excellent longtime backup catcher.
John Milner was my first massive Met hero in 1973–check out his minor league stats sometime–the Ks and BBs are excellent. RIP Hammer.
My all-time obscure Met hero has to be Henry Owens, the fireballing converted catcher–check out that 2006 season at Binghamton–unreal! If not for injuries, that was a HOF closer.
greggofboken
3/11/2013-5:37pm at 5:37 pm (UTC -4)
My unsung hero was George Theodore. I shared his initials. I shared much of his physique. I shared his physical sense of grace (or acute lack thereof). And, of course, I share his pain.
darknova306
3/11/2013-6:07pm at 6:07 pm (UTC -4)
I vaguely remember Henry Owens as a discussion topic back then. Too bad he didn’t stay healthy and dominant to keep us from having to rely on Luis Ayala after Wagner went down during Collapse Episode 2: The Bullpen Strikes Back.
kingman 26
3/11/2013-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
But good call on the 1990s Braves as most hated opponent.
darknova306
3/11/2013-5:03pm at 5:03 pm (UTC -4)
Absolutely. It will take a long time for someone to supplant the late ’90s Braves at the top of my hate list.
Hazmet
3/11/2013-7:26pm at 7:26 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry, gotta go Cardinals of the White Rat era in the 80′s. The Mets were always looking up at the Braves and never stood a shot where the Cardinals broke our hearts with a Mets team that easily could have been to a few more post seasons with maybe a legit title in there.
See a clear division between older fans and younger fans here. Remember Whitey calling us Pond Scum. That, was a heated rivalry where both teams hated each other and so did the fan bases.
gategem
3/12/2013-6:16am at 6:16 am (UTC -4)
Whitey Herzog’s dislike of the Mets dates back to when he was Director of Player Development with the Mets. He was one of the architects that gave us the farm system that yielded the great pitchers of the late 1960’s. After Hodges died Herzog was in line to assume the role of Mets manager. M. Ahole Grant picked Berra because he didn’t want another strong minded, intelligent manager after he suffered abuse at the hands of Hodges. Hodges would frequently go above Grant to effectively stop Grant from destroying the organization. In an interview with Howie Rose Herzog related that if not for Grant the Mets would have been the dominant team of the1970’s, even better than the Big Red Machine.
Boomer
3/11/2013-5:36pm at 5:36 pm (UTC -4)
Most underrated player in Mets history and my personal hero ( started me catching as a kid with his autographed model Rawlings catcher’s mitt) Jerry Grote.
Always overshadowed by Bench but he caught a great game, worked with some of the best Mets’ pitchers in team history and had a gun for an arm.
Hazmet
3/11/2013-7:27pm at 7:27 pm (UTC -4)
Great call on Grote. One of my all time favorites.
gategem
3/12/2013-6:24am at 6:24 am (UTC -4)
Grote was a real sob. He was hated by most of the beat reporters. But as a fan you had to love him. At the end of the half inning, before he left the field he would role the ball back to the side of the mound that would require the opposing pitcher to go past the mound to retrieve the ball. Once he let a fastball go by him and hit the umpire in retaliation for what he considered were bad calls against his pitcher.
srt
3/11/2013-5:49pm at 5:49 pm (UTC -4)
I’m a little confused….these were just the starter questions today and any additions we might have…right?
We’ll give or vote on them starting tomorrow (or whenever)?
Or were you really looking for answers today?
Either way, this is something different while we wait for the season to start. I like it. Should promote much discussion.
darknova306
3/11/2013-6:11pm at 6:11 pm (UTC -4)
I think the idea was to get ideas today for the topic of the bracket, then tomorrow (or whenever) vote on it and start discussing the individual contestants for the topic decided on. I think we’ve got a pretty good list of topics going. Now to settle on something.
Trs86
3/11/2013-8:18pm at 8:18 pm (UTC -4)
Dark as usual is spot on.
greggofboken
3/11/2013-6:42pm at 6:42 pm (UTC -4)
Oops. I give myself a demerit.
darknova306
3/11/2013-6:09pm at 6:09 pm (UTC -4)
Unfairly maligned Met: Luis Ayala. He was shat on so much by the fans, when we all knew exactly what he was coming it. Expecting him to a dominant closer was ignorant and ridiculous. That bullpen was all on Minaya.
Stick
3/11/2013-6:56pm at 6:56 pm (UTC -4)
that it was. But he was still likely fairly maligned
darknova306
3/11/2013-7:44pm at 7:44 pm (UTC -4)
I always felt bad for Ayala. He was a bad pitcher being thrown directly into a high profile fire by a giant buffoon of a clown of a GM. Omar was a joke.
Hazmet
3/11/2013-8:18pm at 8:18 pm (UTC -4)
I always felt that way too. And while not a popular name I also throw Kenny Rogers into the mix for 1999. He was unfortunate to be the last guy on the mound to issue a 4 pitch walk to end their season but they don’t sniff the playoffs in 1999 if it wasn’t for the 12 games he pitched since coming over. Going 5-1 with 2 complete games and a shutout to save an overused pen but all anyone remembers is that walk in Atlanta.
darknova306
3/11/2013-8:35pm at 8:35 pm (UTC -4)
Rogers… not even close to the strike zone… still so much anger…
That’s a tough one for me to get over, man.
kingman 26
3/11/2013-8:38pm at 8:38 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, I forgot, Kenny Rogers.
They showed the ball in his glove pre-pitch and he was clearly afraid to thrown Andruw a fastball.
Hazmet
3/11/2013-8:07pm at 8:07 pm (UTC -4)
Most hated opponent of all-time: Pete Rose
Most hated opponent team of all-time:80′s Cardinals
Most hated Met of all-time: I guess a toss up between Bonilla and Coleman.
Most overrated Met of all-time: Craig Swan or matinee idol Lee Mazzilli
Most underrated Met of all-time: Hubie Brooks. Could have been a beast if the turf in MTL didn’t do him in. And he enabled us to get The Kid.
Worst Mets team of all-time: I’d have to agree with the 1993 team and the Coleman M-80 and Sabe’s Bleach Party crew but man that 1979 team sucked.
kingman 26
3/11/2013-8:23pm at 8:23 pm (UTC -4)
Really excellent responses except for Swan who was really good until the injuries.
gategem
3/12/2013-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
The mention of Swan brought back memories of a proposed trade to the Angels that was vetoed by Lorinda de Roulet. A little research found the following at MMO:
“An interesting anecdote about Swan involves his potential trade to the Angels in 1979. The Mets were discussing dealing Swan and Elliott Maddox for veteran first baseman Willie Mays Aikens and a young minor league infielder named Dickie Thon.
After Mrs. Payson’s death, her daughter Lorinda De Roulet became principal owner and Chairman of the Board. Mrs. De Roulet, hardly a baseball expert, reportedly vetoed the deal when she remarked “We can’t do that. Thon is just a baby”. Thon of course wound up in Houston where he became the regular shortstop for several years.”
I personally remember reading that she didn’t allow the trade since the Mets were either up for sale or in the process of being sold and didn’t believe they should be making major trades at that time.
BTW Willie Akens was a good power hitter and Dickie Thon was a very good ss with speed and power. Thon’s career was cut short when he was hit in the head by a Mike Torrez fastball. Interestingly Torrez at that time pitched for the Mets.
darknova306
3/11/2013-8:23pm at 8:23 pm (UTC -4)
Being a fan since 1990, the all-time most wretched Mets team I’ve witnessed was those 1993 bums. What a joke. Those losers are why I take current failure in stride.
darknova306
3/11/2013-8:19pm at 8:19 pm (UTC -4)
Fulmer with a torn meniscus now? Sigh.
Stick
3/11/2013-8:39pm at 8:39 pm (UTC -4)
well, crap on a stick. he has so much promise.
but, that is why you need a large stockpile of high upside arms.
darknova306
3/11/2013-8:41pm at 8:41 pm (UTC -4)
Bingo! The ‘issue’ of too much pitching depth always figures itself out in the end.
darknova306
3/11/2013-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
And now it’s being reported that Santana is “bitter and angry” about his situation and is “barely communicating with club officials”. So, you come to camp out of pitching shape and not ready to go, you get called out for it and recklessly go out and pitch from a mound, then you scale back your throwing program while whining like a petulant child. He’s a joke.
Stick
3/11/2013-11:04pm at 11:04 pm (UTC -4)
that seemed to be speculation, unnamed sources, etc. So I would take it with a big grain of salt.
wanny
3/11/2013-11:10pm at 11:10 pm (UTC -4)
Most hated opponent of all-time: Chipper (until the Mets were utterly irrelevant and it became cool to respect him). Pat Burrell, Von hayes, John Tudor, Van slyke, John Rocker, Jimmy Rollins are all good choices too.
Most hated opponent team of all-time: Cox era Braves
Most hated Met of all-time: Juan Samuel
Most overrated Met of all-time: Gary Carter (hate to say it but really only had one great year with the Mets, one real good one and finished as a Met with .249 .319 .412 )
Most underrated Met of all-time: Armando Benitez
Worst Mets team of all-time: 62 is easy choice. But 93 much more egregious.
60s and 70s teams before my time for judgment.
TX
3/12/2013-1:13am at 1:13 am (UTC -4)
I unheart Juan Samuel with much vigor.