Kobe is prob. the most talented naturally basketball player to play the game. his skill can't be matched, you have to be kidding yourself tito to think Kobe wouldn't get picked. Well then again, just goes to show why I'm 3-0 against you in our debates. Damn Canadian not knowing anything about sports eh.
I agree with him not being a top 20 at this point in his career. Maybe when it's all said and done he will be top 20 and maybe even higher. All those stats and awards mean nothing when comparing to old time players.
I'm a huge fan of old timers (more in hockey tho) but to be completely honest, the players of yesterday aren't anything close to the players of today.
also if stats don't mean anything whats the point of keeping them?
Aside from the two of you most list have Kobe as a top 10. When all is said and done, I believe Kobe will be in the top 5. The way he shoots, dunks he almost looks unhuman. I saw him put up 81 against my Raptors and I ask how the heck do you deny the man top 20.
You normally have a pretty solid look at things, Tito, but I think it's safe to say that you're crazy if you don't have Kobe in your top 20.
Tito, come on, you can't believe what you're saying. You do seem to be serious though, so for arguments sake, list 19 better players.
Also, with Kobe, I think it's just the opposite of what you said...stat geeks won't come out and say he averaged this or that, they'll just have seen what a great player he's been. Yes, the guy is a jerk, who cares, so was Jordan. The guy is clearly a top 20 NBA player of all time.
Schtolky...i absolutely believe what im saying...sorry you didnt watch the NBA before it sucked and it was marketed towards players and not teams. I still love hoops, but Stern (and the refs) ruined the game (for me at least).....i think it hilarious that you put Kobe as an all-time great.
I am Dead serious...he is easily one of the best players in todays NBA...but im telling you, if he played in the 80's he would score at least 8 less ppg game...at least....he would get knocked around and rattled, and i dont think he could take it. On the other hand, if James worthy or Dr J played in todays NBA, they would average 30 points with ease....you mean to tell me in a 7 game series in their primes you would rather have Bryant on your team than Olajuwon? M. Malone? K.Malone? T. Duncan? L. Bird? Barkley? Isiah Thomas? Kareem? Magic? Stockton?.....I HATE Isiah Thomas guts...but in a 7 game series in his prime i think my team has a better to win with him than Kobe Bryant..I realize most of you dont know the history of the sport too well, but this is absolutely debatable.....I would absolutely also take David Robinson in his prime over Kobe Bryant....im just naming guys that i can give an opinion on because i have seen them play......but hell, what about Wilt, Russell, and Robertson??
Tito, I actually agree with some of the guys you mentioned with the possible exception of Stockton. But you still haven't named 19 better all time players. And come on, there is no way you can take David Robinson over Kobe. He was nasty, yes, but he didn't win a title until Duncan came along. I think your personal hate for Kobe is blinding you here (though you do hate Isiah and listed him, so I'll give you that). Fact is, on pure talent, Kobe is a top 20 player, easily. EASILY. If the guy plays only 5 more seasons after this and averages 25PPG during those years, and assuming he plays 80 games a year, he'll finish 2nd in most points for a career behind Kareem. Something tells me he'll be first when he retires (only to be eclipsed by Lebron). Being a top 2 or 3 all time scorer demands you are a top 20 all time player.
Also, I agree and disagree about about his success in the 80's. Yes, players were much tougher and fouling standards were more relaxed, but defenses just weren't as good back then. Before you accuse me of never seeing games before the 80's...I do have a TV, I have seen old games, many of them. Kobe would have had just as many points back then as he does now. Even if it's 1 or 2 pts less, doesn't matter. Still an all time great.
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